S07.E12: Yacht-Pocalypse Now

[antfitz]

On 12/24/2019 at 1:52 PM, Marley said:

His apology is bs. Especially because up until now he was trashing Kate on Social media and acting like she had some campaign to make him look bad. It’s only after he saw how the everyone reacted to this episode that he decided to make that joke of an apology. He’s a douche and has mega issues that he needs to take care of. I dislike even seeing his douche face. 

Tanner and Brian suck too. Tanner thinks way too high of himself.

 I cannot stand Aston... Ashton the ash hole. He has serious ego.  And he has serious anger problems especially when hes drunk.

[pieinmyeye]

I still don’t understand why Captain Lee didn’t find out what happened until now. Does anyone?

[BodhiGurl]

9 minutes ago, pieinmyeye said:

I still don’t understand why Captain Lee didn’t find out what happened until now. Does anyone?

It is confusing - given Kate went AWOL - wouldn't someone fill him in? I can understand not knowing the extent of what happened, but it seemed as though he knew nothing. Unless he's covering until the next episode airs.

 

[antfitz]

On 12/25/2019 at 1:38 AM, endure said:

Seems they were all showing their true colours in this episode, and they weren’t pretty.  Ashton has major issues with women, major. He shouldn’t have a position of authority.

I so agree with you that Kate is not the only one who earns her keep, she is just way to full of herself.

 I don't think Kate is.

 As much as Riley has an attitude, She is not nearly as bad as Ashton.  I would love to see her as bosun and Ashton have to work under her or someone like her. Put that misogynist in his place. 

 I don't think Kate is to egotistical. I think she is confident and she knows her job and she knows how to do it. 

[pieinmyeye]

2 hours ago, BodhiGurl said:

It is confusing - given Kate went AWOL - wouldn't someone fill him in? I can understand not knowing the extent of what happened, but it seemed as though he knew nothing. Unless he's covering until the next episode airs.

 

Perhaps he heard what happened, but didn’t see the show in its entirety until we all did. That’s all I got.

[The Ringo Kidd]

5 hours ago, pieinmyeye said:

I still don’t understand why Captain Lee didn’t find out what happened until now. Does anyone?

Yes. He is lazy and arrogant.

He was too busy thinking up sayings about “swinging dicks” to pay attention to what was going on with his crew.

Edited December 27, 2019 by The Ringo Kidd

[NannyBails]

Cynical me thinks he did hear about what was going on, but because production is really in charge, not him, he was unable to do anything. 

Also, if he did hear about the situation, why didn't he ask production to show him what they filmed rather than wait until it appeared on TV months later?   There's really no excuse for him not doing this if he were really in charge.

 

[Yours Truly]

17 hours ago, jkitty said:

I wont talk about Kate and Ashton because there is nothing else to say there. I do agree that the kiss was a move of domination, not lust. When his assertion of power was rejected he lost his shit. 

I am also firmly team Rylee. Yes, she can be explosive (although we have really only seen that the first night out this season I think), but the way Ashton acts with her is disgusting. If he wants his team to all use the same knot, it is his job to clearly and calmly set out that expectation and provide resources If they don’t know how. The disparity in his reaction to Rylee and Tanner both messing up the knot was telling. He screams at Rylee, again, outwardly trying to dominate her and assert his power. He set her up, ready to pounce at the slightest reaction or frustration.  The whole deck crew has been gaslighting her since she got there telling her to calm down as soon as she breathes. She basically stumbled over her words and Ashton lost it on her. Then he gives his bru Tanner a pass and talks shit about Rylee. To me, that interaction was as telling of his views on women as his attack on Kate. 

I feel Courtney. I don’t think her attitude on the date was related to Brian at all and I think he knew that. She didn’t want to get dressed up, go out, or go clubbing. She wanted to put on some comfy clothes and chill on the sun deck with rosé and a charcuterie board. That club looked like my personal hell and the last place I would want to be after a long charter. Her pouting was a fuck you to production, not a Brian. I am surprised she even went on this show as she gives me strong introvert vibes. 

I go back and forth on Brian. I think he is mostly nice but is very susceptible to the influence of the other brus. They are too much in his ear and he is not using any healthy skepticism regarding their bullshit. He seems embarrassed he took the bait in retrospect (at least regarding Kate. I think he should feel that way regarding Rylee too if he engages in any real introspection). Maybe he will be able to learn from this a little bit. 

Completely co-sign!

I'm team Rhylee too. Not because I think she can do no wrong but because she being subjected to some really shitty behavior. Nothing she has done warrants the disgusting behavior aimed at her. There is this ridiculously uneven balance regarding her actions and the over the top, inappropriate overreactions she receives.  I think it's ridiculous to believe that flying off the handle is an acceptable reaction to someone who frustrates you. What really aggravates me is that, from what I can tell, Rhylee's most common plight is that she unintentionally frustrates Ashton who then uses that as an excuse to let his true nature towards women surface. He thinks he can pass off his aggressively and intimidating behavior as leadership. He uses Rhylee's frustrating tendencies as justification for his misogyny. I give Rhylee a pass for her explosions because it's pretty jarring to be on the other side of such deliberate attacks all the time. I also agree that they've been gaslighting her.  She can't even breathe without someone rolling their eyes at her and accusing HER of initiating conflict. The resentment towards Rhylee isn't based on her being rebellious or not wanting to do her job. It's based on the fact that she doesn't coddle the guys. She's not sugar and spice and everything nice and she sure as hell isn't reading the room to see what's the best way to stroke the male egos and steer clear of their fragile sensitivities. She's not a woman that puts them at ease and it's crazy but true that a woman that doesn't exhibit some sort of delicate or catering behavior is considered "abrupt and abrasive" and therefore offensive. And if you're going to be the rough around the edges type like Rhylee then they least you can do is put out. That would being the only slight saving grace in their book.

I've been in that sort of "bruh" situation when I was in the Marine Corps where the guys sorta band together and ostracize the females who don't "play nice enough with others". I'm a bad ass, and I didn't carve out a "safe space" for myself by being the cool kid sister that pretended not to see the misogyny and I wasn't the smiley flirty one that played to the ego therefore drawing their sweeter sides, but would also bring that much more unwanted advances. I put quotes around safe space cause even in those roles, is it really "safe" to have to even play a role?  I was the Rhylee, not as loud, but just as volatile and with a HUGE don't fuck with me chip on my shoulder. Pissed that the roles were pretty much hanging on the wall the minute you walked through the door and as hard core as I was/am it's still extremely jolting and somewhat traumatic to have that sort of energy aimed at you just because you've refused to pick one and you're not playing up to the men.  I've dealt with the typical day to day issues before the Corps but it's a whole other animal when it's a group of men who share the same disapproving opinion of you in the same space, all at the same time and deliberately make the environment uncomfortable just cause you refuse to defer to them. Very intimidating way to go about any daily activity or job. By the end of my tour overseas I was practically jumping out of my skin counting the days til I could get away from the suffocating misogyny and gaslighting and be back home. 

So I feel for Rhylee cause as harsh as it looks to the viewers I can totally get her discomfort and unease with the way the guys come at her. I applaud her strength and even though it is over the top I can understand how unnerving it is to always have to assert strength in the hopes that the message gets through. The message is usually never heard but at that point it's usually and issue of pride (at least it was for me) so even though I got shit for it constantly I continued to stand my ground. I'm also inclined to include that it doesn't feel good to be on the other end of such intense aggressiveness. It's offputting, uncomfortable and intimidating sometimes. The fear of retaliation in one way or another is always present but what can you do? I don't think anyone deserves that sort of energy aimed at them. Even Rhylee because at the end of the day, at most, she's annoying and loud. So what?  

[Sampson]

31 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

So I feel for Rhylee cause as harsh as it looks to the viewers I can totally get her discomfort and unease with the way the guys come at her. I applaud her strength and even though it is over the top I can understand how unnerving it is to always have to assert strength in the hopes that the message gets through. The message is usually never heard but at that point it's usually and issue of pride (at least it was for me) so even though I got shit for it constantly I continued to stand my ground. I'm also inclined to include that it doesn't feel good to be on the other end of such intense aggressiveness. It's offputting, uncomfortable and intimidating sometimes. The fear of retaliation in one way or another is always present but what can you do? I don't think anyone deserves that sort of energy aimed at them. Even Rhylee because at the end of the day, at most, she's annoying and loud. So what?  

I appreciate your several posts regarding Rhylee. You've eloquently described the issue surrounding her in a way wouldn't have been able to, so thank you. It's been mind boggling for me to see so much support for how Rhylee is the problem.

[Lamima]

First I think I remember there being a story about Ashton's mom, no? Was it he who had to save his mom from an attack or something? Or something about her having illness or addiction? I think there is some backstory there where Kate was just pushing his buttons. I didn't take it as her saying 'what would your mom think of your behavior' but a more 'how is your mom' type of insult. I watched while doing a bunch of stuff so maybe I misunderstood. 

However, his sexual assault (forcing and unwanted kiss is assault) and then his threatening rage....man that guy should have gotten immediately booted by the show. I just watched a crap season of Survivor where a castaway got booted for unwanted touching and I felt he was kind of wronged (he touched ladies hair and feet while on a beach with like 10 other castaways around)...but Smashton was truly a threat to Kate and should be gone gone gone. Though we got the edited version (just like on Survivor).

And then Tanner kissed her too. Didnt she thank him for calming down Ashton? Then Tanner trashed her in galley when Ashton went to get him? Very odd. Tanner is a douche. I think he was aiming to makes moves on Kate and Simone in 1 night. I remember back in college some of the douchie frat guys got off on fooling around with 2 girls in 1 night and particularly liked to mess with 2 friends. Gross.

I would have left too. Just like Kate. Yes, she should have gone to Lee and demanded Ashton get booted pronto. Cant they bring back Eddie? Like I dont see why it was such a big deal that he fooled around with crazy Rocky in the laundry room? Ashton's aggression is way worse and a more getting blacklisted offense. Anyway...I get her wanting to flee. And I prob wouldnt have even packed.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Lamima

[dleighg]

6 minutes ago, Lamima said:

First I think I remember there being a story about Ashton's mom, no? Was it he who had to save his mom from an attack or something?

I think that might have been Joau (sp?). But Ashton did seem to indicate that there was some family discord. I didn't really understand what Kate was implying or whatever about his mom. I just don't understand why he blew up. It was like he thought she knew some deep dark secret (which I don't *think* she did); I thought she was just tired of the whole Tanner's mom thing and turned it in a different direction.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

I think that might have been Joau (sp?). But Ashton did seem to indicate that there was some family discord. I didn't really understand what Kate was implying or whatever about his mom. I just don't understand why he blew up. It was like he thought she knew some deep dark secret (which I don't *think* she did); I thought she was just tired of the whole Tanner's mom thing and turned it in a different direction.

I think that’s exactly what she was doing and Ashton blew up because he knew they were being dicks about Tanner’s mom and didn’t think his mom should be talked about the same way they were talking about Tanner’s mom. It really also illustrates how much of a douche Tanner is that he backs up Ashton about how his mother is a total joke and that Kate shouldn’t have gotten involved.

It was definitely Joao who’s mother was assaulted while she watched. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by biakbiak

[Passing Strange]

Yes, it was João Franco from BD Med who valiantly fought the intruder. He's another misogynistic, belligerent asshole with an accent. The only difference between the British-sounding douchbros and Eddie is that Eddie wasn't aggressive or violent. He was still an entitled and insensitive POS who led Rocky on and used her, all while in a relationship with someone else.

Ashton explained his family matters later in the episode. He had a lot of issues regarding his parents divorce and was estranged from them both at one time. He's since gotten very close with them. I don't know if there's more but I agree that even if there is that's not what Kate was getting at.

To me, Ashton was just as scary with Rhylee as he was with Kate. The domineering power stance and gestures, refusing to listen to her attempt to explain and the barely controlled rage directed at her were awful to watch. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Rocky, Rhylee or Kate, no actions of theirs could ever justify this type of behavior toward them. We're seeing some fine examples of toxic masculinity and I'm including Brian, Kevin and Tanner in this. I have no idea why some men find it hard not to be abusive.

[Yours Truly]

15 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

Yes, it was João Franco from BD Med who valiantly fought the intruder. He's another misogynistic, belligerent asshole with an accent. The only difference between the British-sounding douchbros and Eddie is that Eddie wasn't aggressive or violent. He was still an entitled and insensitive POS who led Rocky on and used her, all while in a relationship with someone else.

Ashton explained his family matters later in the episode. He had a lot of issues regarding his parents divorce and was estranged from them both at one time. He's since gotten very close with them. I don't know if there's more but I agree that even if there is that's not what Kate was getting at.

To me, Ashton was just as scary with Rhylee as he was with Kate. The domineering power stance and gestures, refusing to listen to her attempt to explain and the barely controlled rage directed at her were awful to watch. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Rocky, Rhylee or Kate, no actions of theirs could ever justify this type of behavior toward them. We're seeing some fine examples of toxic masculinity and I'm including Brian, Kevin and Tanner in this. I have no idea why some men find it hard not to be abusive.

Abusive! That's the word I've been looking for. While Rhylee may be abrasive, obnoxious loud and crass she's not being abusive. Sure she's been aggressive in her RESPONSES but there's nothing about what Rhylee does that suggests her intentions are to be abusive. She may not be as tactful as she could be and she may be snide at times etc. etc. but the huge difference to me is that there's conflict and disagreements and then there's abusive combativeness. Ashton, especially, uses intimidation. That's why I'm such a Rhylee defender. I don't care if you hate Rhylee's guts but it does not give anyone the right to cross that sort of line or EXCUSE the behavior which is what the OTHER men on that boat do which makes them equally culpable.   Same with the situation with Kate that clearly outlines Ashtons tendency to be aggressive and abusive. Being threatening is never okay and that's what's always been my thing this whole time. The responses to Rhylee is heavily laced with a threatening undertone and it drives me insane.  (As in she better watch her step or else sort of way)

Edited December 27, 2019 by Yours Truly

[The Ringo Kidd]

Kate and Rhylee have something in common. They push it until they get a reaction. Add alcohol and anger and you get a reaction far out of proportion that is violent and unacceptable. That’s what reality show production want. They hand children gasoline and match’s and are surprised that there is an explosion.

These dudes need to wise up and not look for it among the crew. They need to keep their interactions professional. Preferably monosyllabic. They are in Thailand for fucks sake. It’s falling out of the trees. Be smart for once in your life.

[mcjen]

3 hours ago, dleighg said:

I didn't really understand what Kate was implying or whatever about his mom. I just don't understand why he blew up. It was like he thought she knew some deep dark secret (which I don't *think* she did); I thought she was just tired of the whole Tanner's mom thing and turned it in a different direction.

 

1 hour ago, Passing Strange said:

Ashton explained his family matters later in the episode. He had a lot of issues regarding his parents divorce and was estranged from them both at one time. He's since gotten very close with them. I don't know if there's more but I agree that even if there is that's not what Kate was getting at.

I agree with both of you.  At the moment I initially watched this scene, when Kate asked about Ashton's mom, it felt to me like she was merely trying to deflect the conversation away from Tanner's mom.  She may have felt generally bad that they seemed to be making of fun of the woman, or possibly she thought the bruhs were insensitive to Tanner's feelings. 

Tanner pointed out later in a talking head and/or an aftershow clip that Kate didn't understand the situation, that he and the guys enjoy a joke at his mom's expense.  Then he promptly turned that into yet another reason Kate's a know-it-all who deserves whatever she gets.  Well, gee, Tan - you're right.  Kate did NOT have any way of knowing you like to be a douche with the boys about your mom, so how about you give Kate a pass for trying to protect a woman she even doesn't know and, presumably, your own feelings.

My hunch is that Kate knows next to nothing about Ashton's mom.  Again, in aftershow clips, Ashton and the other guys emphasized that he's opted to keep family matters to himself, and I'm guessing that extends to last season, too.  He did share the business someone else mentioned about having been distant from his parents in the past and now being much closer to them.  We also learned from an aftershow clip with Kate and Capt. Lee that, after Ashton's close brush with death last season, his mother wrote a lovely letter to the entire crew, thanking them for saving her son and taking care of him.  I got the impression from that clip that Kate thinks Ashton's mom is a very sweet person.

So, I really don't think she was trying to push any particular button about his mom in the van.  (It's not impossible that sometime, somewhere during last season, off-camera, Ashton did share something about his mother that could have been used as emotional ammo, but it certainly wasn't included in anything we were shown or were told.  It's seems futile to speculate on possibilities for which we have no evidence.) 

What I think happened is: the guys seem to be making fun of Tanner's mom, possibly to pick on Tanner.  Kate didn't know what it was about but wanted to turn the conversation a different direction.  That left her with just Kevin or Ashton to pick from.

Here's where I do think she may have had the barest (drunken) inkling of a motive.  By choosing Ashton - the guy who had just made yet another aggressive gesture of sexual harassment and intimidation towards her - and specifically asking him about his mother, she may have hoped that the thought of his mum might have momentarily shamed him into a little decorum.  Additionally, if he had given anything like a normal response ("She's fine, Kate. Why do you ask?", or "She's great; thanks."), I suspect Kate might then have gone on to muse aloud - gee, I wonder what she'd make of you trying to force your tongue down my throat again.  That is the kind of "button-pushing" I could picture Kate going for in this situation.  Not that I can read her mind.  

Instead, Ashton erupted into his worst self.  I truly hope he gets fired for it, but, like others, I fear with only two charters left, it's not gonna happen.

[spunky]

6 hours ago, Lamima said:

First I think I remember there being a story about Ashton's mom, no? Was it he who had to save his mom from an attack or something? Or something about her having illness or addiction? I think there is some backstory there where Kate was just pushing his buttons. I didn't take it as her saying 'what would your mom think of your behavior' but a more 'how is your mom' type of insult. I watched while doing a bunch of stuff so maybe I misunderstood.  

Joao is the one who was held at gun point while his mother was beaten during an armed robbery. I saw it floating around on another message board that Ashton had animosity towards Kate because of something she said on Twitter. Apparently his mom sent the crew individual thank you notes for saving his life and Kate snarked about it on Twitter. It still doesn’t excuse his out of control behavior.

Edited December 27, 2019 by spunky

[biakbiak]

18 minutes ago, spunky said:

Joao is the one who was held at gun point while his mother was beaten during an armed robbery. I saw it floating around on another message board that Ashton had animosity towards Kate because of something she said on Twitter. Apparently his mom sent the crew individual thank you notes for saving his life and Kate snarked about it on Twitter. It still doesn’t excuse his out of control behavior.

I can’t find any reference to her snarking on Twitter about the letter. Ashton said he assumed she was mocking the letter his mom wrote that night which given he was drunk and jumping to conclusions I don’t trust his recollection. The dudes all said they thought it was because he likes to not talk about his family and that’s why he reacted. So a bunch of cross talking to excuse his behavior but no mention of what her snarking about it on Twitter.

[snarts]

5 hours ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

Kate and Rhylee have something in common. They push it until they get a reaction. Add alcohol and anger and you get a reaction far out of proportion that is violent and unacceptable.

No woman should make herself small so as not to provoke a man.  That's utter bullshit advice.  

[spunky]

4 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I can’t find any reference to her snarking on Twitter about the letter. Ashton said he assumed she was mocking the letter his mom wrote that night which given he was drunk and jumping to conclusions I don’t trust his recollection. The dudes all said they thought it was because he likes to not talk about his family and that’s why he reacted. So a bunch of cross talking to excuse his behavior but no mention of what her snarking about it on Twitter.

I couldn’t find it either, but for some reason it was mentioned a few times on another message board. Production failed to protect Kate in that moment. There’s no telling what he would have done had it been Simone and Courtney in that van when he became physically aggressive.

[TeeMo]

There is nothing worse than an asshole who spends all day telling you how drunk he is going to get later except an asshole who gets that drunk and then becomes violent and totally out of control in front of subordinates. Seriously what was it about Ashton that made anyone think he was cut out to be bosun? He is a terrible, terrible leader and his behavior in this episode was reprehensible. 

[gotta watch]

I had a little different take on Rhylee and Ashton and the knot episode. I thought it started with Ashton saying "We all need to use the same knot and you all need to learn this." Both Rhylee and Tanner fumbled for a minute then Rhylee said something to the effect of "why do I need this, I never use them on sailboats." I only watched once and may be mis-remembering, but it seemed that Ashton got angry at her response. He didn't handle it well, but  It just seems that even when Ashton gives her clear direction she's disrespectful back.

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, gotta watch said:

I had a little different take on Rhylee and Ashton and the knot episode. I thought it started with Ashton saying "We all need to use the same knot and you all need to learn this." Both Rhylee and Tanner fumbled for a minute then Rhylee said something to the effect of "why do I need this, I never use them on sailboats." I only watched once and may be mis-remembering, but it seemed that Ashton got angry at her response. He didn't handle it well, but  It just seems that even when Ashton gives her clear direction she's disrespectful back.

I re-watched the scene and captured the dialogue. I would have expected such a meeting to start with a demonstration of proper technique. Rhylee was shown practicing the knot. Rhylee was asking for more specific direction. Not at any point did they show us Tanner actually practicing. He may not even have tried one knot. Yet Ashton begins attacking Rhylee and ignores Tanner who is sitting there laughing and seems to be ignoring the task. Ashton probably told Tanner to come watch him rip into Rhylee.

At no point did Rhylee raise her voice. I don't understand how any of this is Rhylee's fault … at all. I saw Ashton baiting her, hoping she'd lose her temper and she did not. I also saw that the captain made a shitty decision for boson.

Over radio

Ashton:  “Hey, Rhylee, Rhylee, Ashton”

Rhylee:  “Go ahead, Ash”

Ashton:  “Yeah, will you meet me on the bow with Tanner, please?”

Rhylee:  “Yeah”

Meet at bow

Tanner? Or Ashton: “What’s up”

Rhylee:  “With?”

Ashton:  “Uh … I wanna give you guys a line each, and I want you to practice your bowlines, okay? I need you guys to be able to do a bowline quite quickly”

(Ashton hands them ropes and she starts practicing)

Rhylee:  “Like, do you want me to do it and bring it?”

(As Rhylee is saying this, Tanner is not practicing and looks to be just laughing at something)

Ashton:  “I’m sorry?”

Rhylee:  “When do you want us to show you or something?”

Ashton:  “Do you wanna do it now, or is it … like, have you got an issue with this?”

Rhylee:  “No, I’m just … I’m just …

Ashton:  “You seem to have an issue with the task because you’ve not tried to do it in front of me as … as a point”

(Rhylee has been trying, it’s right there on camera, Ashton is lying)

Rhylee:  “I don’t have an issue with it, I just did it”

Ashton:  “Rhylee”

(Ashton cocks his head and says her name with some exasperation)

Rhylee:  “A bowline knot is not something that I use on a … on the fishing boat a lot.”

Ashton:  “Cool”

Rhylee:  “I mean, I don’t know what to say”

Ashton:  “Yeah, the less you say, the better”

Rhylee:  “The less I say, the better?”

Ashton:  “Yeah, so keep quiet. In this situation, I’m your superior, okay? You’ve got a bad attitude. I’ve asked you to do something, okay? I’ve asked you to do something”

Rhylee:  “But you’re speaking to me like that, that’s any nice way to talk to me whether you’re my superior or not?”

Ashton:  “Rhylee, don’t come here with your attitude again.”

 

[Passing Strange]

Just to add a bit to Sampson's excellent recap, Riley had done what Ashton wanted her to do, tie the knot. All she wanted to know was what to do next.

“I don’t have an issue with it, I just did it.”

Edited December 28, 2019 by Passing Strange

[Mondrianyone]

When it comes to slamming crew members for being incompetent around ropes, it's probably worth remembering that Ashton was the moron who stepped into that tangle of lines that almost cost him his own life.  I guess he forgot.  If I were Rhylee, I'd be reminding him every once in a while.  But in a very sweet tone of voice.

[gotta watch]

@Sampson thanks for re-watching! I totally didn't realize/remember that Rhylee actually did the knot. I just remembered her saying she didn't use it in her other job.
No doubt about it, Ashton is an asshole every which way to Sunday.

[Lunula]

I only take away two things from this episode:

1. I hate Ashton. He shouldn’t be in leadership and he definitely needs a lot of damn therapy to learn how the hell to control himself and stop being so aggressive with women. He should also never fucking drink again. Please fire him. Please.
2. Courtney is a wet blanket. Maybe it is weak editing but they’ve made her look seriously boring.

[PaperTree]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

I re-watched the scene and captured the dialogue.

 

Thanks for that.  Asston just wanted to goad her into yet another fight to prove his superiority.

As an attempt to assert his "Authoritai!", it was a dismal failure.

I was never a "boss", but that is no way to get your stated objective from an underling.

He needs to jerk off more since nobody will suck his dick. (For free.  It's Thailand.  He can afford to pay for it.)

[MajorNelson]

On 12/26/2019 at 2:34 PM, mcjen said:

I too think Courtney was not up for the idea of the "date" with Brian, not because of him but the timing.  It's a bit of a shame she didn't tell him so when he asked. explaining that she was just too tired and hot to feel like an extra excursion.  Or - if she did welcome the chance to spend some quiet one-on-one time with him - perhaps she could have countered his proposal with "could we just have a quiet drink together on the sun deck" as jkitty suggested.  I think Courtney acquiesced in the moment because she thought it might be rude to decline, but she simply lacked the energy/enthusiasm to be outgoing and fun once they were actually out together.  It was unfortunate but hardly the worst social crime that's ever been committed on BD. Or even on that night!

I think an important part is, as she mentioned, she likes 2-3 days of notice so she can mentally prepare.  I get that she is that kind of person.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by MajorNelson

[mcjen]

15 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

I think an important part is, as she mentioned, she likes 2-3 days of notice so she can mentally prepare.  I get that she is that kind of person.

Exactly.  Some may interpret that as boring; I just see her as a low-key and careful sort of individual.  I like Courtney, and I enjoy seeing someone with those qualities on the show, much as I prefer the well-mannered, appreciative guests over the obnoxious and entitled ones.  But, I'd admit, a show completely made up of a crew and guests of the kind of people I'd personally like to be around probably wouldn't make for very "interesting" television!  (Imagine it, though: we might actually get to see footage of exotic locales and traditions, rather than putting up/taking down slides all day long and bitching about it.)  This is Bravo, after all, where free-wheeling, overly-spontaneous (to the point of recklessness) asshats reign supreme!

[Yours Truly]

19 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Thanks for that.  Asston just wanted to goad her into yet another fight to prove his superiority.

As an attempt to assert his "Authoritai!", it was a dismal failure.

I was never a "boss", but that is no way to get your stated objective from an underling.

He needs to jerk off more since nobody will suck his dick. (For free.  It's Thailand.  He can afford to pay for it.)

Exactly!! And I'm pretty sure she knows this and that's where HER obvious frustration comes from. She's knows she's a target. She knows they want her to walk on eggshells and she knows they are going to try to bait her and even when she DOESN'T take the bait Ashton STILL lays into her. Inventing an attitude and tone of voice.  What's crazy to me is that she does bite her tongue. She did it last season too. She knows the minute she gives in she's giving them what they want. However there's only so much she'll take before she'll attempt to correct how you're addressing her and of course that sparks more BS and then she just says fuck it she can't win anyway and that's when her explosion happens. It's happened in almost EVERY confrontation she's had. I don't think she's ever misread the situation. I also believe that each time she tried to roll with it but then ended up pushing back cause they wouldn't stop.  I would blow up too cause it's unacceptable for Ross, Ashton, Chandler or Kevin or Tanner or Brian to be goading her, baiting her singling her out and making her a target to play with. All in the name of trying to put her in some place that they've moronically decided she strayed from. A misogynistic place that no women should have to live or play nice in. Ross came the closest to finding a balance but since none of the men seem genuinely interested in truly making peace with Rhylee then she's always some bitch that is mouthy and therefore SHE'S the problem.  Kevins a condesceding prick. Ashton is an aggressive asshole, Tanner is a disrespectful clown and Brian's a small minded halfwit who most likely has his own underlying misogynistic tendencies that allow him to go along with/ participate in the BS against the women. But For some reason Rhylee's abrasive foul mouth seems to be some big whoop while their offensiveness is somehow supposed to be more tolerable by comparison. 

[sasha206]

I can't help but wonder what would have happened to Kate if cameras weren't there with that rapey, violent, drunk ashole.

[Chalby]

On 12/27/2019 at 10:54 AM, The Ringo Kidd said:

Kate and Rhylee have something in common. They push it until they get a reaction.

Push what?! They ask for clarification and suddenly the deck crew is offended? Perhaps we should be viewing the deck crew as 'pushing' their bad attitudes until they get a reaction.

[Chalby]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:09 AM, Yours Truly said:

So I feel for Rhylee cause as harsh as it looks to the viewers I can totally get her discomfort and unease with the way the guys come at her. 

Watching Rhylee interact with these immature asses makes me wish I could jump in and defend her in 'real time'. Ever since she came aboard and had to deal with idiot Chandler, Rhylee's biggest flaws are: she works too hard, and she questions everything. She needs clarification because she knows any mistake she makes will be magnified compared to the guys. However, her bosuns view her questions as 'questioning authority'. I think the real reason the deckhands are smouldering with hatred is because they cannot answer her questions thoroughly, and they know they don't have the 'whys' and 'why-nots' as to why things are done a specific way. Did Ashton even explain why she needed to learn (and only use) that specific knot? If I had never used it on the boats I've worked on, I would want to know what makes it more special than knots other deckhands use? If the fellows ask each other a "Rhylee question", they answer. If Rhylee asks a question, they want her fired for having a bad attitude. The only time her attitude sours is when she's told to shut up, calm down, or not worry about something. After all these seasons don't these characters (stews as well) look back and recognize their own inability to communicate effectively and respectfully? I would be watching and setting goals for myself. Finally, I am over the constant complaining that Kate is a bitch who needs to be put in her place. Kate can do whatever she wants, etc. All I have seen is Kate bite her tongue when she knows the exchange is going nowhere, and I've seen her work her butt off, without resorting to "Hannah hours" when it comes to morning, evening and breaks. AND she ensures her 'gals' get their breaks. Does anyone remember last year when Lee put her in charge of the deck crew for the evening because Chandler was an ass. Both Ross and Ashton raved about how wonderful it would be to have Kate in charge. That was then, and this is now...

[Chalby]

On 12/26/2019 at 5:46 PM, BodhiGurl said:

It is confusing - given Kate went AWOL - wouldn't someone fill him in? I can understand not knowing the extent of what happened, but it seemed as though he knew nothing. Unless he's covering until the next episode airs.

 

Captain Lee and the boat crew bring to mind a teacher and his/her grade four class. When teacher is strolling around the class, checking on student work, the atmosphere is calm and productive. As soon as the teacher leaves to get an message from the office, etc., the class erupts into chaos. Teacher returns, and class looks like a dream. This is called not tattling and no tattling means you won't get beaten up at recess and lunch, lol.

[Chalby]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:20 AM, OnceSane said:

Airs December 23, 2019.

I feel embarrassed for Simone. Once she sees the show being aired, she will see that Tanner is playing her for the fool, while she becomes all doe-eyed over her unrequited love. We've seen her say "Nope, not gonna give in", only to turn around and say, "What the hell". What makes it worse is I am positive she has made it clear to Tanner that this is simply a boat romp, period. Yet we never see or hear all of Tanner's desperate "Meatloaf declarations"**. For some reason this show enjoys editing relationships to mirror female desperation, when we all know males are equally (if not more) desperate. What is up with that?

** Lyrics for those who forgot**

And when the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave
I started swearing to my god
And on my mother's grave
That I would love you to the end of time...

[hunkapappa]

Ashton is a misogynist scumbag who needs to never be in close quarters with women ever again.  Especially in a place where there is essentially no access to law enforcement such as a yacht. 

Everything about him this season has been a red flag to having the potential for sexual assault.

First of all, he thinks he is entitled to a woman's body. "I'm sick of working this hard for a blow job."

Last season his simple mind figured his dancing and flexing would be all it took to entice Caroline to his arms.

Rhylee is not impressed in the least with him, so he is passive aggressive toward her at best and openly hostile at worst. I know she is a handful but a manager knows how to deal with difficult people, a skill Ashton has never displayed.

He has forced himself without consent on Kate twice with no consequences.

He is prone to physical anger.

He admits his alcohol problem is something he "works on"

He admits is anger issues are something he "works on"

How many "works on" projects does he need to have underway before someone gets hurt.

Couple all of that with his alcohol abuse and you have an employee who is a danger to the women he works with.

Ashton is a sexual assault waiting to happen.

[crimson23]

On 12/28/2019 at 3:23 PM, Mondrianyone said:

When it comes to slamming crew members for being incompetent around ropes, it's probably worth remembering that Ashton was the moron who stepped into that tangle of lines that almost cost him his own life. 

Yes! and wasn't it Rylee the one who radioed for help when that accident happened??   If so, you'd think he'd be grateful.  Or maybe that is the problem, she isn't stupid enough to do that.

[AnnieBananie]

I've been able to watch past seasons' marathons over and over and over (and over) again before, but I don't see that happening with this season. I just feel gross and uncomfortable. Between production not stepping in didn't when it should have, the vilification of Kate, and Ashton's self-serving apology, it just all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

It's sad.

[diadochokinesis]

15 hours ago, AnnieBananie said:

I've been able to watch past seasons' marathons over and over and over (and over) again before, but I don't see that happening with this season. I just feel gross and uncomfortable. Between production not stepping in didn't when it should have, the vilification of Kate, and Ashton's self-serving apology, it just all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

It's sad.

Yeah, I try to watch it when it airs with my husband because I can’t watch these episodes again. I usually am happy to watch it once by myself and again with the husband once he has free time but forget it. The only good thing is that he gets outraged at seeing Ashton’s behavior so it reminds me that good guys do exist. 

[laprin]

On 12/27/2019 at 10:09 AM, Yours Truly said:

I feel Courtney. I don’t think her attitude on the date was related to Brian at all and I think he knew that. She didn’t want to get dressed up, go out, or go clubbing. She wanted to put on some comfy clothes and chill on the sun deck with rosé and a charcuterie board. That club looked like my personal hell and the last place I would want to be after a long charter. Her pouting was a fuck you to production, not a Brian. I am surprised she even went on this show as she gives me strong introvert vibes. 

As an introvert, I completely related to Courtney. Extraverts have no appreciation for how exhausting it can be for introverts to be "on" all the time. We need quiet time to recharge. The perfect date after working is chilling at home with takeout not going to a noisy restaurant or club.

I just had a chance to watch this episode and what I saw from Ashton looked like roid rage. We know he works out a lot and is obsessed with his musclarity based on his Instagram page. I would not put it past him to be on steroids, which don't mix well with alcohol. 

Captain Sandy gets a lot of flack for being overly involved with the staff and a micro manager.  Captain Lee is the opposite. He is completely oblivious to what is going on with his crew when they are not right in front of him and seems to have very little interest in stepping in to resolve issues unless he is called upon to do so. I'm not sure which is a worse quality in a leader. 

 

 

 

[Chalby]

On 12/30/2019 at 5:14 PM, AnnieBananie said:

I've been able to watch past seasons' marathons over and over and over (and over) again before, but I don't see that happening with this season. I just feel gross and uncomfortable. Between production not stepping in didn't when it should have, the vilification of Kate, and Ashton's self-serving apology, it just all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

It's sad.

Annie - THANK YOU!!! (For posting this.) It is like you read my mind. My hubby laughs at me because I LOVE this show. I look forward to watching it each week and it makes me want to travel and explore the world (as well as to try some new recipes.) I also identify with many of the characters (Kate is like my cousin) so it feels as though I know them.

However, as Annie pointed out… this season has changed that and this is no longer harmless escapism. It’s turned into real situations that I see at work, or hear about through my friends, and loved ones, and whether it is harmless TV, or something told to me by a friend - BOTH do not feel fun or good anymore and I hope something changes, and quickly.

SORRY -This post is long and yes, I am turning my anger towards a phoney ‘reality’ show, yet at the same time, kudos to Below Deck for spotlighting some area that should be long gone, even EXTINCT from any society by 2020. I just wish we could see all the production tapes because I have a feeling more gender lines were crossed (by everyone) than are legally allowed, yet no one stepped in and helped. Tanner almost did, but then turned around and negated anything he had previously said.

I do recognize that a decent % of the storyline is churned up by production. However, this season has been reduced to such an uncomfortable, giant cluster-f**k of nasty, mean-girls combined with a group of horny, indiscriminate hole-seeking men, who... (even more than usual) are disgustingly proud of their infantile choices/ behaviour. The two groups combined are like living by a pulp mill and we viewers simply can’t get the stench off of us.

It started with Kevin boarding the yacht as a Chef who thinks the majority of kitchen workers/helpers etc, are intellectually and common-sense wise, inferior. He behaved like an arrogant diva from the get-go and yet (??WTF??) he’s been given a ‘pass’ for his horrible insults/behaviour. That does not stop him from bashing Kate every talking head he has. AND he continues by blaming KATE if the tip is less than $18,000. (I don’t know what production editing is being done, but all I’ve seen is Kate working her arse off, and always ensuring Kevin hears any of the good feedback the clients make re: his food. He LOVES that, but can’t get his head out of his ass long enough to see that it is KATE helping the general tone of the kitchen. Finally, I just about choked laughing when he blamed Kate for not reminding him about no cheese for a guest, and he further blamed her for not reminding him (yet again) about the double birthday cakes requested on HIS FOOD preference sheets. (To be fair, I haven’t seen him look at any preference sheets so him may struggle with reading, BUT that means find someone to help you!)

Tanner’s preoccupation with “dipping his wick” was so unattractive, yet somewhere between talking shit with his ‘mates’ and whispering sweet nothings to Simone apparently got him action. I hope his mom is embarrassed with how he made it clear to EVERYONE that this was just physical release (except to Simone). Then when she figured it out and was fine with the outcome, he kept sniffing around her doorway, not even allowing her a chance to sleep in her own bed. But come on Simone, NO MAN is good-looking when his personality is ugly. As soon as he discussed their bed-action, she should have tossed him. Tanner is too immature to be with anyone but someone professional.

I remember last year when Ashton was everyone’s go-to, wise advisor. He kept to himself, didn’t pass judgement, tried to sleep with every woman he could, but didn’t get mad if the answer was no! (He just assumed there was something dysfunctional about the gal). etc. He also understood Captain Lee was offering him the chance to leap frog seniority to become boatswain because he believed in Ashton’s potential. I think will all did given Ashton’s humble and appreciative nature. (Yeah, right… where is that Ashton now?) Ashton deserved the opportunity, however - opportunity does not equate arrogance, nor does it justify a dictator boatswain who demands, “Respect my rank, or leave!”. I still believe he has potential, I just think they jumped the gun with him. Or maybe Cpt. Lee didn’t give him helpful guidelines - preferring to watch him implode and self sabotage.

I have so much more to say, but believe it or not, I am so disappointed with this season, I’ve run out of even caring. I like Kate, Ashton, Rhylee for different reasons, but I am fed up. Everyone knows what choices and actions are inappropriate. Everyone knows what really happened and to what extreme we viewers are being played.

All I know is when I see young men (yet old enough to know better) bonding with each other while bitching about ‘women’, I usually don’t take notice. But when I see them becoming better bros while continuing to ‘bitch’ about the useless women, while growing closer as they bed and boast? WTH? I can’t stand watching these women when they emotionally react. I realize they have no idea what’s being said, but try to remember, gals, there are no secrets on a yacht/ nor a reality tv show. Why can’t all the crew (interior and exterior) band together, regardless of gender and who is banging whom? Others have done it. The guys behaved stupidly for being angry because Rhylee shared Tanner’s brag. Own it Tanner, and move on.

The guys then seem to form an unspoken agreement that all personal dirt/gossip lies will be kept away from the women they are talking about. By the 6th charter it appears these men have rabidly fed each other such ridiculous shit (daily) and nonsensical claims about the only two women who won’t entertain their idiot behaviour (Rhylee and Kate). This makes the guys even angrier and thus look even more like children yielding tantrums. Good on Ashton, he’s so excited that Rhyme ‘failed’ as a fisher and now he wants her gone. And Kevin made me laugh that they would do better with Kate gone. Please production - grant them their wish.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Chalby
Tried to shorten this angry tome, SORRY to all my fave posters

[Chalby]

On 12/27/2019 at 12:06 PM, mcjen said:

Instead, Ashton erupted into his worst self.  I truly hope he gets fired for it, but, like others, I fear with only two charters left, it's not gonna happen.

You are right, McJen. When Asston woke and realized the 'situation' was blackedout (and none of his bros could remember what was said, aside from trying to imply she diss'ed his whole family). Asston's tiny brain worked overtime. AHA, he thought! Focus on how horrible Rhylee is at her job, and get her fired. That way, NO ONE will ever remember that I tried to force myself on Rhylee last year, and forcibly kissed Kate twice this year, while displaying violent tendencies, and spewing obscenities about women. That's the ticket... Rhylee will take the heat off me. I am so smart!

[Chalby]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:09 AM, Yours Truly said:

So I feel for Rhylee cause as harsh as it looks to the viewers I can totally get her discomfort and unease with the way the guys come at her. I applaud her strength and even though it is over the top I can understand how unnerving it is to always have to assert strength in the hopes that the message gets through. The message is usually never heard but at that point it's usually and issue of pride (at least it was for me) so even though I got shit for it constantly I continued to stand my ground. I'm also inclined to include that it doesn't feel good to be on the other end of such intense aggressiveness. It's offputting, uncomfortable and intimidating sometimes. The fear of retaliation in one way or another is always present but what can you do? I don't think anyone deserves that sort of energy aimed at them. Even Rhylee because at the end of the day, at most, she's annoying and loud. So what?  

I wish I could give yours (and many others') post 6+ likes. Your last sentence says it all - At the end of the day, Rhylee is annoying and loud. SO WHAT? This times 2 million. Why is it when a strong woman like Rhylee or Kate is loud and opinionated, people lose their shit? (Off with their Heads!! Fire them!!) A guy does it and he's simply being a dick of a guy? It's 2020 (almost) and all you Millennials need to change everyone's gender views as this is the world you've inherited and will have to inhabit and navigate.

[Yours Truly]

On 12/31/2019 at 11:38 PM, Chalby said:

I wish I could give yours (and many others') post 6+ likes. Your last sentence says it all - At the end of the day, Rhylee is annoying and loud. SO WHAT? This times 2 million. Why is it when a strong woman like Rhylee or Kate is loud and opinionated, people lose their shit? (Off with their Heads!! Fire them!!) A guy does it and he's simply being a dick of a guy? It's 2020 (almost) and all you Millennials need to change everyone's gender views as this is the world you've inherited and will have to inhabit and navigate.

Yeah, this drives me up the wall. Men act up and it's expected for women to just let it ride. Rhylee doesn't let it ride which is what jars the men so. I hate to admit it but even Kate has displayed the typical "diplomatic" approach and for the most part stays even keeled although she does gets steely when she's prickly. Either way, as a woman and professional Kate realizes it's up to HER to keep shit level. Courtney is also displaying the whole honey vs. vinegar approach. It's obvious that she's not all that into this or that but she does her best to quietly protest while deferring somewhat. You see, even if the woman are annoyed or unhappy about something the men expect them to keep it under wraps while maintaining a facade designed to keep their egos in tact . Kate and Courtney do manage to show defiance in some ways. Courtney by not pretending to be enjoying herself and Kate with her snarky comments but that's as far as most women go. We find ways to show our displeasure without being overly ANYTHING cause we know the minute its know that something is bugging us men throw around words like "calm down", "she's hysterical", "she must be on her period", "she's PMSing" "she's being a bitch". Can't really win for losing cause even the more subtle displays of displeasure is met with nasty reactions and exaggerated declarations of our mental state. Rhylee faced that shit all last season as well as this season. 

I find Rhylee refreshing because at the end of the day, men like the one's on that boat will treat a woman poorly no matter how accommodating and pleasant a women will be. We have 4 examples of different female personalities and how they deal with the opposite sex. From very meek to very outspoken and all four of these women have been met with some sort of negative treatment by one or more of the men on that boat.

Simone is sweet and has a crush on Tanner. Pretty much gets along with everyone and aside from her poor service skills there really isn't anything else and yet, Kevin has talked down to her and has been disrespectful. Tanner has treated her like something he can just use and toss to the side. He's also criticized HER for setting boundaries and spoke about her in a way that suggested SHE'S a problem.

Courtney has been pretty low key and very matter of fact. I think she's gotten the least amount of headaches from the men but that's because she's pretty much playing possum this whole season. Even then Ashton was still inclined to complain about "working so hard to get his dick sucked" as if Courtney's inability to drop to her knees and take a load to the face at the snap of his fingers is some extreme character flaw. 

Kate has been professional and has handled a good amount of conflict in her typical no nonsense way but because she is somewhat authorative in the manner in which she addresses some of her concerns Kevin can't help himself but to challenge her regularly. Then of course there's the whole gang up on Kate by the deck crew. 

 Rhylee represents the "to hell with it" approach and takes no prisoners from jump. No true diplomatic attempts just straight basic "if you're cool with me I'll be cool with you" and if not then don't think I won't speak on the BS. We all see where that gets her. 

Funny thing is, no matter what approach any of these women takethe men have still found a way to either disrespect, undermine, criticize, disregard, dismiss or chastise every one of these women at one point or another. From quiet Simone to head strong Rhylee. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Yours Truly

[mcjen]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:11 PM, Chalby said:

It started with Kevin boarding the yacht as a Chef who thinks the majority of kitchen workers/helpers etc, are intellectually and common-sense wise, inferior. He behaved like an arrogant diva from the get-go and yet (??WTF??) he’s been given a ‘pass’ for his horrible insults/behaviour. That does not stop him from bashing Kate every talking head he has. AND he continues by blaming KATE if the tip is less than $18,000. (I don’t know what production editing is being done, but all I’ve seen is Kate working her arse off, and always ensuring Kevin hears any of the good feedback the clients make re: his food.

Thanks for pointing this out, Chalby.  Because, honestly, beyond the first couple of episodes (with Label-Gate and some other disagreements), I think Kate has gone out of her way to play nice with Kevin.  I don't believe she likes him one iota, but she knows it's important that they be able to work together.  So, as you mention, she's been liberal with passing along any positive comments from the guests - which she could simply withhold for spite's sake.  Instead, she's tried to keep the mood in the galley light, she's complimented him on his menu ideas (where again, I doubt she's very impressed.  I think it's just about trying to maintain a decent working atmosphere.)  And yet Kevin has used every talking head, not to mention every opportunity while chilling with the bruhs, to bash her.  

I'll be honest:  I like Kate, in general.  I think she's good at her job, in terms of keeping the clients happy and juggling the multiple demands on her time/attention, plus her snarky observations in the talking heads are the things I'm most likely to get a chuckle out of.  This doesn't make me blind to her mean girl tendencies or the fact that she could extend herself further in trying to "train up" stews who aren't up to snuff.  But I think she's gone out of her way to get along with Kevin, and it's gotten her back a big fat zero in good will from him.

Edited January 3, 2020 by mcjen

[tvfanatic13]

11 minutes ago, mcjen said:

Thanks for pointing this out, Chalby.  Because, honestly, beyond the first couple of episodes (with Label-Gate and some other disagreements), I think Kate has gone out of her way to play nice with Kevin.  I don't believe she likes him one iota, but she knows it important that they be able to work together.  So, as you mention, she's been liberal with passing along any positive comments from the guests - which she could simply withhold for spite's sake.  Instead, she's tried to keep the mood in the galley light, she's complimented him on his menu ideas (where, here again, I doubt she's very impressed.  I think it's just about trying to maintain a decent working atmosphere.)  And yet Kevin has used every talking head, not to mention every opportunity while chilling with the bruhs, to bash her.  

I'll be honest:  I like Kate, in general.  I think she's good at her job, in terms of keeping the clients happy and juggling the multiple demands on her time/attention, plus her snarky observations in the talking heads are the things I'm most likely to get a chuckle out of.  This doesn't make me blind to her mean girl tendencies or the fact that she could extend herself further in trying to "train up" stews who aren't up to snuff.  But I think she's gone out of her way to get along with Kevin, and it's gotten her back a big fat zero in good will from him.

A thousand likes mcjen. Well said. 

[Mojitogirl]

On 1/2/2020 at 9:46 AM, Yours Truly said:

 Rhylee represents the "to hell with it" approach and takes no prisoners from jump. No true diplomatic attempts just straight basic "if you're cool with me I'll be cool with you" and if not then don't think I won't speak on the BS. We all see where that gets her. 

Funny thing is, no matter what approach any of these women takethe men have still found a way to either disrespect, undermine, criticize, disregard, dismiss or chastise every one of these women at one point or another. From quiet Simone to head strong Rhylee. 

I find it very interesting that Rhylee seems to get along well with the three other women. She socializes with them, and despite her talk about Brian, hasn’t done anything to disrespect Courtney’s relationship. I find in real life that people who are truly problematic and awful are very equal opportunity and are disliked by both men and women (see the obnoxious guest this week no one likes). The men have mounted a pathetic concerted campaign against Rhylee and Kate using the same language and talking points and covering for each other. 

[Special K]

Late to the game, but I'm pretty sure the Brian/Courtney date was completely producer-driven to advance that "story line."  I take Courtney's sulking as being annoyed she had to participate in it, and not really a reflection of her friendship with Brian.

Definitely agree that Ashton seems to be experiencing roid rage.

 

[Chalby]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:46 AM, Yours Truly said:

Funny thing is, no matter what approach any of these women takethe men have still found a way to either disrespect, undermine, criticize, disregard, dismiss or chastise every one of these women at one point or another. From quiet Simone to head strong Rhylee. 

Once again you have posted a perfectly written response. Thank you for succinctly writing the thoughts I have been struggling to share. I agree with everything you just wrote. I find it upsetting to think that by 2020 there are still people who don't 'get' that women express themselves similarly to men. But these women are still not heard because of people who refuse to acknowledge and respect their contributions. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Chalby
oops - read as 'me' instead of 'men'