S06.E09: Crisis On Infinite Earths Part Three

[scarynikki12]

WORLDS WILL LIVE... WORLDS WILL DIE... AND THE CWVERSE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!

 

Quote

Pariah enlists Black Lightning to help stop the Anti-Monitor after Flash-90 shares what he learned from his battle in ‘Elseworlds.’  With the help of Black Lightning, Barry, Cisco and Killer Frost come up with a plan that could save them all.  Meanwhile, Iris has a heart-to-heart with Ryan Choi, while Oliver and Diggle return to an old familiar stomping ground.

 

 

[quarks]

"Ignore him. It's his first crossover."

AGAIN. SO HERE FOR THE META.

[scarynikki12]

Lex thinks he merely saved himself but he’s gonna have to step up cause the other Paragons aren’t here for his shit. 

[Twilight Man]

Well, file that under "cameo I was not expecting."

Goodbye, Birds of Prey.  You will NOT be missed.

As I once said, I pull out the DVD box so I can watch the "webisodes" of Gotham Girls,

not the actual live-action "headliner" show.

Hello, Lucifer. (His earth is, of course, Earth-666)  Can't wait for season 5.

Black Lightning, meet everyone.  Everyone, meet Mr. Sparkles.

And a cute moment from the show thirty years ago.

Iris:   I just hope that your Iris loves you as much as I love MY Barr---

Flash-90:   Actually, me and her broke up a long time ago.  I've been dating a female doctor for quite some time now.

Iris:  Huh, OK.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Twilight Man

[Writing Wrongs]

I hate this smarmy version of Lex Luthor.

[apinknightmare]

I enjoyed some of the cameos, but I guess that's to be expected because this whole thing feels like a giant cameo generator. A lot is happening but it all feels pretty unfulfilling to me. 

[Bulldog]

I'm confused.  Is Kara, by any chance . . . hopeful?  

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I hate this smarmy version of Lex Luthor.

He looks like the whiny dude from that 2.5 Men show! Dunno why they picked him to play Lex Luthor! Awful!

[insomniadreams88]

Well, that was certainly quite the cliffhanger.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVED LUCIFER!

Loved Mia, Diggle, and Constantine working together. Loved the Oliver/Mia and Oliver/Diggle hugs. But it certainly felt like they sped through Oliver becoming Spectre. "Oliver, you have to —" "Yep." "I didn't really finish..." "Yes, I'm in." 

Loved Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning joining everyone. 

But I'm sorry, I have to laugh and roll my eyes at Barry being the paragon of love. Really, Arrowverse?  

[scarynikki12]

I LOVED that Lucy crossed over. I’d have had a stroke if Amy, Dr Linda, and especially Maze had been with him so that was probably wise. He should do a smaller crossover on LOT and hook up with Con. 

BARBARA GORDON!! Or, rather, BARBARA GORDON’S VOICE!!!

Those alone made this episode amazing but everything else worked too.

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

He looks like the whiny dude from that 2.5 Men show! Dunno why they picked him to play Lex Luthor! Awful!

I love Cryor’s Lex but this made me laugh. 

[Lady Calypso]

Not my favourite episode of the crossover, but it had a lot of really, really great moments.

I really liked seeing some new pairings (hello, Jefferson/Barry!). I loved the cameos. 

And that ending was super intense. 

I do think this episode had a lot more heartfelt moments, rather than just relying on Easter Eggs, so that made it quite strong, but there were some things that they kind of whizzed through (the Oliver thing, for one) so I wish there had been a little less Lex Luthor and a little more Oliver Queen.

Ryan Choi is great, but a lot of it is attributed to Osric Chau.

Overall, great ending. I wonder how they'll convince Lex to help save the multi-verse.

[shantown]

There were so many big moments that were so rushed. 

"Oliver, I'm a random comic easter egg and you have to be a spectre."
"Okay."

"I'm E90 Flash and I'll be the one to die because none of you thought of that."
"Okay."

[Sakura12]

I don't know what to say about this episode. A lot happened and nothing happened. Barry got saved from Alt Barry and Oliver became Spectre. I did love the Luci cameo though. I wish he stuck around longer. Seeing Jefferson finally join the frey was nice too. He should've been invited sooner. 

I'm glad Sara got to be the one to explain something for once. The Vanishing point, nice S1 callback for Legends. 

This version of Lex is such a downgrade from Routh's Superman. I am interested in seeing the Kara, Kate, Sara, Barry, J'onn, Ryan and Lex work together with Spectre Oliver. Those are pairings we haven't seen before. 

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Lex thinks he merely saved himself but he’s gonna have to step up cause the other Paragons aren’t here for his shit. 

He's been punched by a Superman, and I think it's fair if all the other paragons also get a punch in. 

I really like Jon Cryer but he's really irritating as Lex. Maybe that's what TPTB are going for, but I not much of a fan with what I've seen. (Listening to JC on the aftershow, he's clearly a giant comic nerd and loving all of this so at least he's having fun.)

Loved the cameos - even Huntress'. Lucifer was great. Oliver's back but then not so okay. 

Ryan Choi is an adorable pocket puppy. More please. 90's Barry - you went out a MFHero through and through. 

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I LOVED that Lucy crossed over. I’d have had a stroke if Amy, Dr Linda, and especially Maze had been with him so that was probably wise. He should do a smaller crossover on LOT and hook up with Con. 

YES. Now I'll be so mad if (when) we don't get this.

[Featherhat]

4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I LOVED that Lucy crossed over. I’d have had a stroke if Amy, Dr Linda, and especially Maze had been with him so that was probably wise. He should do a smaller crossover on LOT and hook up with Con. 

I think Dr Linda would have had a stroke from all these new celestial beings/paragons/superheroes so clearly in need of her services when she already has enough to worry about so it is certainly wise. 

That said a Lucifer/LOT crossover needs to happen. 

[bettername2come]

I've only seen a few episodes of Black Lightning, but I liked how they brought him in here. You know Barry's going to relate to and respect him, and it was barely noticeable, but I really enjoyed the tiny nod of respect between Jefferson and Diggle. Also, nice work, Diggle the  Paragon of Friendship winning your bro's soul back. Nice moment between him and Lyla, too. They can keep their place as my third favorite Arrowverse couple. 

He's not the best Lex Luthor, but in terms of big, sneaky plans, that wasn't bad.

Poor Cisco. No one listens to him. I loved him calling "team leader" and breaching Earth-90 Barry to sacrifice himself on the treadmill. Well played.

I was really happy to see Ashley Scott back as Huntress and to hear Barbara Gordon. 

[Chaser]

I’m bored. Everything feels artificial. 

[Writing Wrongs]

I liked seeing Huntress, too. As bad as it was, I kind of loved Birds of Prey. 

I just kept thinking about Infinity War and this didn't have the feels for me like that did.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Writing Wrongs

[jmonique]

I get that they did it for the drama, but if that's the last I see of Brandon Routh's Superman, in exchange for Snarky Lex, I'm going to be pissed.

I'm OK with no more Monitor, though.

[shantown]

Also, we all know that Barry will ultimately live, but it would have been way more emotional and impactful if he actually had disappeared, even for one episode, and they had to figure out how to get him back (Lex could have taken over Barry instead to make it work).

Instead, there was no real emotional investment here so the whole episode ends up feeling empty.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ryan Choi is great, but a lot of it is attributed to Osric Chau.

I'm going to entertain the delusion that between Osric Chau and a Lucifer cameo and a handful of Supernatural comics published by DC that there might be the tiniest chance for Sam and Dean to make an appearance to give Oliver a hard time.

[calliope1975]

I agree about the emotional investment in this crossover in that I don't really have much, if any, but I am enjoying all the fanservice and am having a bunch of fun with that.  

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I think Dr Linda would have had a stroke from all these new celestial beings/paragons/superheroes so clearly in need of her services when she already has enough to worry about so it is certainly wise. 

That said a Lucifer/LOT crossover needs to happen. 

She should be the in universe shrink for all these beings... And she could relate.. Beautiful  friend of a demon.. Mother of a nephilim.. Loved Kate/Kara those two really work well... Barry/Jeff was golden... Of course Lucy was top notch.. As was Monitor/ Lois... Bitsie has been great.. Shes def gonna be the star of hwr ahow over Teen Wolf Tyler... I really enjoyed this episode more so than the others... Wish I didn't have to wait so long to see it wrapped up.. And I'm really wondering what it all looks like after the anti-monitor is defeated 

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I’m bored. Everything feels artificial. 

Yeah, I agree. 

After all that build up from watching 7 episodes of Arrow leading up to this, and Oliver dies pretty much right away, his daughter resurrects him, then he BECOMES A GOD and it's like a total of 10 minutes of story? Years of that article that Iris wrote and those last two episodes of Flash (which I usually don't watch but did watch those) and Barry going through all this stuff, preparing to die - even the multiple moments he had with Iris in this ep thinking he might be saying goodbye and oop in 2 minutes everything is shifted over to another Barry and none of it meant anything. What a waste of time! None of it has had any payoff, and while I know it's not over yet it doesn't even feel satisfying. I'm not even dying for January 14th like I thought I'd be because everything is so over the top that they have no choice but to undo at least some of it. Bleh.

The fanservice is fun, but I don't know what half of these references are so I'm not even getting everything out of it that I could, LOL.

Edited December 11, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

I feel like everyone got distracted with this crossover. Everything should have been built around these huge moments that they’ve been teasing forever. Instead it’s like they tacked on these scenes around all their cameos.

I’m really annoyed Arrow stayed on the air for this. 

[Writing Wrongs]

How was Earth-1 going to sustain all the billions of people they took there?

[UNOSEZ]

9 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

and it was barely noticeable, but I really enjoyed the tiny nod of respect between Jefferson and Diggle

Oh.. Naw.. No barely bout it.. I saw that nod... I was giddy... I've done that nod.. To the other black guy in a room before.. Hell we all have... 

[BkWurm1]

The idea that Barry is the Paragon of Love is a joke unless it's because he seems to be afflicted with Lana Lang syndrome and people MUST LOVE HIM and hence keep dying for him.

I did enjoy part of this episode but as a whole I was kind of underwhelmed by the third installment.  I really enjoyed Diggle getting a moment to showcase the brotherly bond between he and Oliver and his moment with Lyla before she was taken over but it was all rushed and Barry's big sacrifice amounting to nothing felt really blah.  They barely even tried to do a heartfelt goodbye between Iris and Barry.  If I hadn't known better I would have thought he was going off for a brief business trip.  Where was the emotion?  And him suddenly being sure he'd come back to her? Where was that in the lead up during the Flash episodes?  

I am surprised they wiped E1 especially since i thought  that was what Barry and company had just stopped. 

I will miss BR Superman but I don't mind Supergirl's Lex.  He's no Michael Rosenbaum but he's a solid number two on my Lex list.   

I'm glad Oliver will be back in the next episode.  I wasn't super excited by the rest of the line up even as  a viewer of all the shows.  

I don' t know.  Maybe I'll like it better on rewatch.  If I were to rank the episodes I'd go 2,1,3

Edited December 11, 2019 by BkWurm1

[KittenPokerCheater]

Was Lucifer's cameo spoiled anywhere?  Because I am wondering if it was a very well kept secret or was it just me?

Edited December 11, 2019 by KittenPokerCheater

[srpturtle80]

Seriously. I HATE how they split this up over the winter break. I should have just saved all three episodes until January and watched them all at once.

Random thoughts: I loved Cisco’s disdain for the name Anti-Monitor. I don’t watch Black Lightning but maybe I should because I adore Cress Williams. Loved him here. I cried when Barry was saying his goodbyes to Cisco and Kaitlyn. I also cried when we saw other Barry Allen sacrifice himself and they showed his lightning bolt patch lying on the ground.  Love hearing Snart’s voice again on the Waverider.

I spent the last few minutes frozen solid and glued to the screen lol, that was intense. 

And now we wait over a freaking month for the resolution. Ugh!! 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Was Lucifer's cameo spoiled anywhere?

Yes and then Tom Ellis was all, “what do you mean? I’m not in it” but no one believed him. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Was Lucifer's cameo spoiled anywhere?

Not definitively, but I think someone following Lucifer's social media somehow pieced together that a pic of the actor in the trailer was taken in Vancouver, and I'm pretty sure one of the paparazzi posted about it, but the actor denied it.

[Trisha]

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Was Lucifer's cameo spoiled anywhere?

Yeah the Vancouver paps spoiled it, to the point the actor who plays Lucifer denied it in an interview and said he was just on set visiting his friend for his birthday. 

[quarks]

So, frankly, much of this did not make a lot of sense, and I think we're all much better off not trying to think about the plot, the plot holes, and the multiple issues with the special effects, not to mention the myriad pacing problems, and instead focusing on things like this:

1. Ray Palmer has a fanboy! Yay!

2. The fanboy had the very reasonable response to "Hey we need you to save the universe!" "I've got a baby!"

3. Jefferson took one look at Barry and knew Barry had to be zapped! CORRECT CHOICE, JEFFERSON. I knew I liked your show for a reason!

And then he quoted a poem. YAY JEFFERSON.

4. More meta comments! I'm so here for the meta comments.

5. The continued Kate/Kara friendship, with Kate carrying around some Kryptonite.

6. Lex staying in character as a complete dick.

7. Ralph deciding not to waste time and demonstrate his superpowers.

8. Iris turning into a Superhero and Adjacent Human Superhero Recruiter.

9. After eight seasons (ok, ok, seven and a half), the Arrowverse abruptly deciding to turn Oliver Queen into someone else - SOMETHING ELSE - in, what, 15 seconds?

On the one hand, if this is where Arrow is going, yay, I love this - it's a great sendoff for Oliver Queen. On the other hand, ok, yes, I know I just said that we needed to ignore the pacing problems here, but turning the Green Arrow into Spectre is the sort of rather major (and in this case probably permanent) development that needed significantly more buildup in the scene. Like, more than a five second decision on Oliver's part. 

It also needed more DRAMATIC MUSIC.

10. On the other hand, Lucifer! From Earth-666!

"Daddy issues! Well, why didn't you say so?"

[phoenics]

So I think most folks knew that it wouldn't be E-1's Flash to die. 

 

Eric Wallace is on the after show right now trying to pump this up and all I hear is BS spewing from his mouth.  Sorry - I'm just so over him and his hyperbole.   

And I was right in the previous episode when I said that Kate/Kara seems to be the new Barry/Oliver... I love their scenes btw.

 

Marc G just confirmed it on the after show (that Kate/Kara is a replacement for the Barry/Oliver friendship).  I hope that they don't ignore Kara's friendship with Barry though.

I hope Barry and Jefferson become cool... I want Jefferson to meet Joe now - I want him to meet the whole West family and for his family to meet them too.

I ... don't know how I feel about this episode.  It felt rushed and like they missed some important beats and did things backwards.  There is still a de-prioritization of Iris with Barry going on w.r.t. Team Flash and I'm just not here for that.  There was a lot more #WestAllen in this episode - but it felt like they shoved a LOT in and didn't allow it to breathe enough to have the emotional weight.  I felt like Iris' emotional chat with Ryan Choi had the most emotional punch... because it was allowed to breathe... the WestAllen scenes still felt rushed.  This is why I still believe not letting that build up properly on the actual Flash show was a HUGE mistake - because when I should have felt SO MUCH MORE with them, I was just feeling like their scenes were too rushed.  I did think that part where Barry realized they were vanishing and Iris wasn't and he reached for her and both he and Iris grasped air... that was really well done.

And Iris' look of absolute quiet despair to Superman as they were annihilated got me in my chest.

I just wanted to feel so much more with the Westallen scenes and I feel robbed because of how rushed they shot them.

And other moments that should have had more weight just ... didn't.  Like Oliver/Spectre.  Flash/Flash, etc.. I dunno.

Hahaha!  Lucifer lives on Earth 666!  

Love OG Barry Allen getting to finish his story and close that arc.

It hurt seeing BR's Superman replaced with Lex.  I really can't stand him as Lex.  He comes off so smarmy and pathetic - not like the real Lex Luthor.  I would have killed for Michael Rosenbaum's Lex.

I am gonna have to read up on Specter because I don't remember his story in Crisis yet... Ugh.  So, Oliver is dead then?  I'm confused.

Edited December 11, 2019 by phoenics

[Jenniferbug]

In retrospect, I think they should have started last night's episode with more cameo earths vanishing to keep the sense that the wave is taking out all these earths at a quick pace. 

Also I wish they would have ended with just earth 1 still in existence and the paragons portaled away. It would have left the audience wondering how they were going to combine all the shows onto one earth, who from supporting cast might be gone for good, how they'd bring people back, etc. Now there's even less suspense because of course all the earths are coming back now. 

That said, this episode was still more emotional for me than the others. Diggle and Mia with Oliver, Ryan and Iris, Barry and Iris, Monitor, Lois, and Superman, Jefferson and Barry, Barry and Barry...there was a lot of good emotional scenes in this one.

The cameos were a lot of fun, especially Lucifer which I've never even watched. 

Overall I really liked this one and I'm still interested in what happens in the next 2 parts. I just wish we were left in slightly more suspense about how it will ultimately end. 

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, quarks said:

On the one hand, if this is where Arrow is going, yay, I love this - it's a great sendoff for Oliver Queen. On the other hand, ok, yes, I know I just said that we needed to ignore the pacing problems here, but turning the Green Arrow into Spectre is the sort of rather major (and in this case probably permanent) development that needed significantly more buildup in the scene. Like, more than a five second decision on Oliver's part. 

To be honest, they would have likely had a better chance with NOT naming Green Eyed Man and allowed viewers to speculate over the winter. 

What they did instead was suck out the tension. Ok, so he's going to become the new Spectre and a new God of some sort. Sure, we don't know exactly who or what Spectre is, but they really gave zero tension. Mia and Diggle just show back up on the Waverider and say that Oliver chose not to come back without mentioning the Mystery Spectre Man showing up to offer Oliver a better deal?

Also, with how they destroyed all the Earths, they have made it clear that they can likely just poof all the Earths back. With how this Crisis has gone, I'd be surprised if they actually kept some stakes by only poofing some of the Earths back. But now I'm worried that they'll just reset all Earths and everyone goes back to how things were before Crisis. Which...would be a shitty aftermath to Crisis if barely anything changed, besides Oliver becoming Spectre.

Even if they just have someone use the Book of Destiny to bring back some of the Earths, it'll be all of the main Arrowverse Earths.

Again, episode did a great job with character moments, but not with the overall plot. 

And yes, they should have ABSOLUTELY also had Barry disappear. That really would have continued to raise the emotional stakes. 

So yeah, a lot that I would have changed for this part, which is why it's not my favourite.

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

10. On the other hand, Lucifer! From Earth-666!

"Daddy issues! Well, why didn't you say so?"

And Mia is so down for some devil sexytimes (even if it makes her hate herself a little). 

I liked how older Flash’s arc ended. That flashback to the 90s Show was perfect. 

[phoenics]

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Yeah the Vancouver paps spoiled it, to the point the actor who plays Lucifer denied it in an interview and said he was just on set visiting his friend for his birthday. 

Well he is the devil, so we can understand why he lied.

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Mia and Diggle just show back up on the Waverider and say that Oliver chose not to come back without mentioning the Mystery Spectre Man showing up to offer Oliver a better deal?

That actually cracked me up. All this work to Lazarus Pit Oliver, then to try to restore his soul, then to get him out of purgatory, and when they got back to the Waverider without him, it was a total of eh, Oliver wasn't interested in returning and everyone was all OK whatevs with zero follow up. 

As far as letting scenes breathe, I can only speak for Arrow, but it's always had a problem with that. It really hinders interactions and scenes that could be great. 

[Oreo2234]

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Also, with how they destroyed all the Earths, they have made it clear that they can likely just poof all the Earths back. With how this Crisis has gone, I'd be surprised if they actually kept some stakes by only poofing some of the Earths back. But now I'm worried that they'll just reset all Earths and everyone goes back to how things were before Crisis. Which...would be a shitty aftermath to Crisis if barely anything changed, besides Oliver becoming Spectre.

They might restore the multiverse along with earth 1, earth 38 and whatever earth Black Lightning is from but they still might somewhat different than before. Though it will be disappointing for many if no earths merge together. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Oreo2234

[lemotomato]

So... wiping out the entire universe means that there was no point to anything that happened in the first 2.75 hours of the crossover except Oliver dying so he could be in the right place at the right time to become Spectre and save everyone, right? The paragons would've survived whether they knew they were paragons or not. 

[Oreo2234]

Quote

As far as letting scenes breathe, I can only speak for Arrow, but it's always had a problem with that. It really hinders interactions and scenes that could be great. 

It's a problem on Supergirl too. I thinks its partly the result of the show sometimes having more characters and plots than it can handle. 

[Trisha]

35 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I’m really annoyed Arrow stayed on the air for this.

I’m struggling with this, too. I’m trying to reserve judgment until Arrow ends because I really have liked this season (and Oliver becoming a god-like figure and having to find his way back to being himself with his wife/family after saving the multiverse has the potential to be epically satisfying) but using the precious little time we had left with Oliver & Co just to lead up to a disjointed cameo circus is not feeling so great right now.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So... wiping out the entire universe means that there was no point to anything that happened in the first 2.75 hours of the crossover except Oliver dying so he could be in the right place at the right time to become Spectre and save everyone, right? The paragons would've survived whether they knew they were paragons or not. 

I think the Paragons needed to be assembled so Pariah could transport them.

[Samwise979]

I'm actually quite disappointed in this crossover so far. It's not that it's bad but, I'll quote sister act 2 here and say, it was good for what it was but it wasn't all that. 

The hype for these episodes for the last months have been huge. And it's not living up to the hype for me. 

Maybe I took this all the wrong way but, the news of all these characters they were bringing in, it seemed like every other day another actor was being confirmed, made it seem to me that many different superheroes from many different earths were going to be in this fight. Not just 2 second to 2 minute cameos before their earth is erased.  

And the fact that 4 out of the 6 paragons are characters we know is eye roll worthy. And I know it may be unrealistic to think this way, like why would you watch a flarrowverse crossover to see Smallville Clark Kent and Lucifer and whoever else cameoed fight the anti-monitor but honestly that's kinda what I thought this would be. 

Having said that I really hope Osric Chau sticks around and becomes a legend!

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I'm actually quite disappointed in this crossover so far. It's not that it's bad but, I'll quote sister act 2 here and say, it was good for what it was but it wasn't all that. 

So far I still like Crisis on Earth-X better. 

The more I think about it the more I think they will restore at least some of the multiverse. There is no way they are leaving Smallville Clark dead and you can't have multiple Clark Kents from Krypton on one earth. The question is if it will be as big as before or if any earths (particularly earth-38 and earth 1 ) will merge. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

This was vastly unsatisfying. The only thing that got to me was

1. John Wesley Shipp’s Barry running until he vanished and the 5 second flashback to his original show.
2. Brandon Routh’s Supes dying.

I should have felt more, but didn’t.

Diggle was angry for like 10 seconds.

I shed no tears for that Asshat Monitor dying. Him bringing up his family didn’t make me feel any sympathy. I see what you tried to do, Show. He’s still a Massive DICK.

[phoenics]

24 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

It's a problem on Supergirl too. I thinks its partly the result of the show sometimes having more characters and plots than it can handle. 

I feel like this Crossover should be the last big crossover for a while.  I hope they focus on smaller ones for a while so they can rebuild the emotional alliances and give the characters deeper emotional ties with room to breathe in Crisis scenes.