S05.E09: Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part One

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Did they say anything in this episode about all the people on the other Earths since they took E38’s to E1 because it’s the last set to be hit? Or are they ignoring those billions because they don’t know a group of people with their own show on those Earths?

Per the after show that Marc Guggenheim was a part of, those other earths we saw glimpses of are all gone.  There was a blackboard and numbers basically crossed off.  Old Oliver's universe remains.  

[scarynikki12]

14 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Did they say anything in this episode about all the people on the other Earths since they took E38’s to E1 because it’s the last set to be hit?

Hopefully it will be brought up in hour 2 or 3.

[quarks]

So that was fun!

Good things:

1. Holy cameos, Crisis! Planning on rewatching those first five minutes multiple times. Hands down favorite: Burt Ward getting to say HOLY CRIMSON SKIES like that is the quality crossover content I am here for. Also the meta comments. YAY.

2. Ray casually fixing the Bat thingies, Kate complaining about how much Ray talks, and Oliver saying that you get used to it.

3. Oliver giving Mia the Green Arrow suit. Awww.

4. Oliver yelling at the Monitor for not holding to the HEY, I'M THE ONE WHOSE SUPPOSED TO DIE HERE moment.

5. Oliver, realizing that they were going to need a bigger team, not even thinking of calling in Team Arrow, but for once asking for the more power-amped people: Barry and Team Legends. See, sometimes these shows remember that Oliver is supposed to be a strategist!

6. Oliver/Sara scenes. This was the one major friendship left that Oliver didn't get to say goodbye to over on Arrow, so it was nice to have those moments here.

7. Supergirl vaguely remembering that yes, Dreamer and Kelly are also on this show. Sorry, Eve!

8. Alex being able to say SCIENCE WORD to Lena and that SCIENCE WORD being enough to allow Lena to open a wormhole. 

9. The really nice scene between Kal-El/Clark and Kara. Some of Benoist's best work there.

10. Supergirl remembering that yes, if you shoot a lot of arrows, you will, indeed, eventually run out of arrows.

11. Upholding the glorious tradition that absolutely everyone, including just created villains like Pariah, can just waltz into the Arrow Cave whenever!

12. Barry awkwardly trying to comfort Mia with his hand on her shoulder. Very Barry. You might be the worst, Barry (ok, you are the worst) but you do have your moments.

Questionable things:

1. As everyone else is asking, how, exactly, is Earth 1 expected to absorb 3 billion people all at once? A site I just checked that I'm sure is 100% accurate because it's on the internet claims that our earth has about 7.7 billion people right now. 3 billion is 40% of that population. What are they going to eat? Can the oceans handle this? Does this make global warming worse? Are we supposed to believe that Earth 1 doesn't have global warming?  (I don't think we can, since Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow have all occasionally mentioned it.)

2. I realize that the actual reason for the end of Argo was "eliminate a plot complication that Supergirl doesn't want to deal with" while also adding a quick homage to the Superman origin myth and the start of Supergirl. That said, it absolutely beggars belief that a place filled with refugees from an exploded planet would not have several ships ready to help them evacuate.

3. Uh, where exactly were all of the aliens storing those spaceships during the last several seasons of Supergirl, and why didn't this come up before?

4. Probably not the best thing to ask for in a fast paced, overcrowded episode, but I was really hoping to see Iris in this episode, largely because I want my JOURNALIST SISTERS moment of Iris, Lois and Kara hanging out - and at this pace, they won't be able to have a Journalists Hanging Out moment. Oh well. Hopefully they will at least get a couple of scenes together in the next two episodes?

5. I'm moderately amused that after all of the fan squawking about WHY ARE IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP MOMENTS LIKE THE WESTALLEN AND OLICITY WEDDINGS NOT HAPPENING ON THEIR OWN SHOWS, Crisis on Infinite Earths decides to have Oliver die on Supergirl. Hee.

(I can be amused because, hey, I watched Arrow season three right along with many of you, so I'm not overly worried about this "death.")

6. So, given that those evacuation gateways seemed to be mostly in urban districts, does that mean that everyone on Earth-38 who opted for a quiet country life is dead? What about people in remote regions? Or out on cruise ships? This all seems quite unfair. Which, sure, was probably the point. 

7. And if this is permanent, how, exactly, is it going to affect some rather major things going forward - to start with, the presence of two different U.S. governments and two different secret U.S. agencies (ARGUS and the DEO)? To continue with, a presumed housing shortage. To continue to continue with, aliens getting added to the mix of metahumans on Earth 1. Is this all just going to get handwaved, or will Supergirl be doing something with it - and if so, how does that fit with Batwoman, which has so far been sticking fairly hard with the grounded vigilante approach?

8. And, also, not that I'm obsessed with this or anything, but if Earth 38 is really gone, that means all of Supergirl's sets are gone too, right? Which, given that this episode actually went back to the Arrowcave AND to Warehouse Number Three to save on sets, does seem to be a rather large problem for Supergirl going forward. Far worse than the threat from Leviathan OR Lex Luthor!

9. Who set up the table for Oliver to die on back in the Arrow Cave? That table isn't usually there.

Bad things:

1. Ok, Supergirl. I know you've used that roof too (indeed, it has now appeared on Supergirl, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and multiple times on Arrow, including the season premiere) but that's Arrow's favorite roof, not your favorite roof. If it had to appear in this thing at all (and I really question that assumption) it should have appeared in Arrow, not the Supergirl section.

That said, I rewatched that clip (it's up on YouTube) and I was wrong on the live posting thread - they didn't switch roofs. 

Which means Oliver fought his final battle on Arrow's favorite roof.

It also means that these shows desperately NEED TO FIND A NEW ROOF. 

2. This was brought up back in Arrow season 3, but having Oliver "die" before on Arrow (not even counting the near-deaths/cardiac arrests in other seasons) does kinda rob his later deaths of their full emotional punch. 

3. This was mostly an unfortunate result of pacing, but speaking as a Batwoman fan, wow, did Batwoman feel superfluous here. I understood why everyone else was brought in, and Kate did have a couple of decent lines, so she wasn't totally wasted, but I kept thinking that she'd been mostly brought in because, hey, she's the lead of one of the CW shows, not because Batwoman herself was particularly needed. 

4. Nothing against Dreamer, but I can't help but feel that the evacuation orders would have had equal if not more weight coming from a government authority figure or even James Olson (suggesting that they probably should have had him stick around for a couple more episodes). And, also, the evacuation orders should have been in at least two languages.

5. I get why this episode included the Oliver/Mia scene on Lian Yu - to pack as much emotional punch into Oliver's death as possible - BUT, given how fast paced the rest of the episode was, I kinda question that decision? Many of these scenes had no time to breathe - and really needed that.

6. Sigh. Crossovers, I get it. Barry is the Real Hero and Oliver Isn't, but not sure we need to have Oliver repeat that for about the 6th time, especially right after the Monitor told us that Oliver saved one billion people (who now probably will be starving to death since Earth 1 might not have that much food, like, thanks for failing to think this through).

7. Lena taking a moment when THE PLANET IS UNDER MAJOR ATTACK AND ABOUT TO VANISH to say, hey, we still aren't friends. Like, Lena, full credit for saving 3 billion people there, but also, Lena, read the room. And the episode.

Still. Holy cameos, Supergirl! Holy new team-ups! I'm in for the next four episodes!

Edited December 9, 2019 by quarks

[BkWurm1]

22 minutes ago, jmonique said:

There's no way Arrow dies for good on the Supergirl hour of the crossover.

He'll be back.

I didn't feel the spark as much regarding the crossover as I have in previous years. But I'll tune in tomorrow to watch Kate do ridiculous flips for no reason, and split-second cameos from everyone who ever stepped foot on a DC Comics project.

So Kate is where all of Roy's Parkour! moves went.  lol

Edited December 9, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Oreo2234]

Quote

But instead the show had Alex act all timid for some reason... And it was Alex' fix that helped Lena do whatever she needed to get the portal working... 

I guess it kinda makes sense that Alex would swallow her pride to help save the people of earth-38 but I hated how she acted all apologetic towards Lena. She had every right to do what she did last episode. Lena was gonna used myriad. 

[phoenics]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Per the after show that Marc Guggenheim was a part of, those other earths we saw glimpses of are all gone.  There was a blackboard and numbers basically crossed off.  Old Oliver's universe remains.  

Wait - so the Titans universe is gone?

That ... can't be.

[Chaser]

It went by really quick but felt flat and uneven. The problem with these Crossovers is my emotional attachment only extends to a few characters so moments that no doubt shook SG viewers didn’t land with me. 

I felt Oliver’s death but thought it could have been done better. I wish they had at least tried to save him and kept the conversations with the Monitor and Wells till after he died. Still, his goodbye to Mia and mentions of Felicity and William got me. Also, he’s totally coming back.

Other things...enjoyed Sara/Ray. The old Oliver and Sara scene was nice but I wish that was with our Oliver. I like Tyler as Supes. Lois was better still not sold on the actress. Mia was a scrappy puppy in need of a hair tie. I’m in favor of a ponytail. A nod to her mother please. 

[insomniadreams88]

17 minutes ago, quarks said:

And, also, not that I'm obsessed with this or anything, but if Earth 38 is really gone, that means all of Supergirl's sets are gone too, right?

Don’t worry, just for you, someone made sure that they all made it, even if they sacrificed a million people to do so. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

Was I the only one expecting Lois to find a SORASed Jonathan?  I was wondering if he would show up as a toddler or even an adult. 

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I choose not to believe that that's the actual end to Oliver Queen.

Speaking of, I found the whole "Star City 2046" bit thoroughly extraneous, so I'm wondering if there is a reason for it that we haven't seen yet (I somehow don't think having Oliver apologize to Sarah is why they did it, since I'm pretty sure E-1 Ollie has already had that convo with her).

Could they bring that tragic 2046 Ollie to reunite with Felicity and give him some happiness? (Which would still be kind of off-putting, since he's not the character we've grown to care about for 8 seasons). 

Could we see an ending to Crisis that involves bringing in Multiple Ollies to bring down the big bad? Could 2046 Ollie have somehow taken E-1 Ollie's place here?

[phoenics]

It's really interesting seeing how differently some of us see Barry/Oliver... depending on which show you like most...

I feel like the writing over the years polarized many of us.  I used to love Arrow and Oliver... 

2 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Could 2046 Ollie have somehow taken E-1 Ollie's place here?

I was just wondering the same thing, actually.

In the after show they compared Oliver to RBJ in the Avengers... so I'm guessing he's gonna have to be back for some epic "snap" moment where he saves everyone.

Edited December 9, 2019 by phoenics

[quarks]

Meant to add -

I did like that they had Oliver die, however temporarily, in the Arrow Cave. A little less dramatic than falling off a cliff, but a nice callback to all of the other times that he's been on that table nearly dying, and, also, in many ways, the home he created for himself.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Could they bring that tragic 2046 Ollie to reunite with Felicity and give him some happiness?

They better not. Doppelgangers aren’t replacements, no matter how much Arrow tried to make E2 Laurel one for E1, especially for Lance in S6. 

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

They better not. Doppelgangers aren’t replacements, no matter how much Arrow tried to make E2 Laurel one for E1, especially for Lance in S6. 

I'm thinking maybe that was the Oliver in the last scene dying?  From E46?  And the E1 Oliver is still alive somewhere?

[teenj12]

Been anticipating this for a year, and so far it's off to a good start. With as massive as the story of Crisis on Infinite Earths is, I thought they did the best they could to get everything in motion and bring in most of the heroes, though I do think the pacing was sacrificed for it. Someone else said this up above and I agree that: the scenes had no room to breathe. 

I should commend that for the first time, the Supergirl episode of these annual crossovers actually felt like Supergirl this time around. We had all the main players of her show participating in things (even if they had mostly bit/reduced parts and Dreamer/Martian Manhunter should have been fighting on the front lines instead of handling evacuation). Seriously, it was a huge oversight to have Dreamer marooned from the other heroes/the larger battle, though

Spoiler

from set pics, we know she'll have a major role in the team-ups later. 

So, Supergirl's universe is gone - I wonder how much that'll stick. I DO think by the end of this, whatever happens, Supergirl is gonna be set on Earth-1 going forward.

And finally, oh man, Oliver's death. I... didn't expect it this soon...? Tbh, I thought the execution was bad. Like, all the way from the cheesy Oliver vs shadow demons scene (Amell tried his best, but it fell a little flat to me) to the rushed goodbyes in the bunker. If this was truly the end of the line for Earth-1 Oliver Queen/Green Arrow, he deserved a tad better in terms of how it was executed.

I'd give this a 8/10. Great, epic stakes, but the pacing and execution in certain areas kept it from a perfect 10/10. 

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I'm thinking maybe that was the Oliver in the last scene dying?  From E46?  And the E1 Oliver is still alive somewhere?

But how would he know what to say to Mia? Unless E1 Oliver coached him? And if so, that’s just cruel. I just don’t see that making sense since Sara, Lois and Brainy came from 2046 E16 while Oliver was already in the bunker dying. 

[scarynikki12]

Keep the discussion focused on the events of this hour. Any references to what happens in the rest of the crossover need to be spoiler tagged and any discussion of the rest of the crossover needs to take place in the crossover thread.

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I'm thinking maybe that was the Oliver in the last scene dying?  From E46?  And the E1 Oliver is still alive somewhere?

That had to have been E-1 Oliver since he called back to an earlier conversation he had with Mia and the conversation E-16 Oliver had with Sara made it seem like he didn't have a wife and a family. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

24 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Could they bring that tragic 2046 Ollie to reunite with Felicity and give him some happiness? (Which would still be kind of off-putting, since he's not the character we've grown to care about for 8 seasons). 

Maybe he can take our Oliver's place as the permanently dead one. E-1 Oliver gets brought back through time shenanigans, Lazarus Pit, whatever, and then the other Oliver takes his place in the Monitor's dumb Oliver Queen dies prophecy. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by apinknightmare

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, jmonique said:

But I'll tune in tomorrow to watch Kate do ridiculous flips for no reason,

So. Many. Flips....  And no Roy... The Godfather of the unecessary aerial movements 

[Smugcake]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Barry is the personification of white male privilege.

It's beyond the pale offensive they wasted some of Oliver's last words giving Barry a pep talk, IMO.

[Maverick]

 I don't get the pod falling through time and universes thing at all.   It was like they needed a side plot to fill some time.   And I really don't understand why they tried to say it was where the Legends went in S1.   I'm not seeing the point at all.   Also, since when do Extrapolators take you between space/universes AND time?  

Other than being the lead on her own show, Batwoman being included makes no sense.    You have the multiverse to pick from and you pick a Bat that's been doing this for about a year?   I'm also annoyed that they didn't explain the time discrepancy from where Batwoman left off.

 And I continue to baffled that they not only managed to evacuate 3 billion people in a couple of hours on a handful of alien ships, but they deposited them all on another Earth with 7 billion people.  I mean clearly the laws of physics don't work the same on Earth-38.   

[Jenniferbug]

59 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Wait - so the Titans universe is gone?

That ... can't be.

Yeah, that has me puzzled. Either we're in for a major undoing of the destruction sometime in the next 4 episodes or the Titans show we've been watching is actually earth 4 (or whatever) and earth 9 just happens to have identical Jason Todd Robin and Hawk. For those that don't know, Titans has been renewed for a 3rd season, so it's permanent destruction is unlikely. 

Is there a reason they never use Martian Manhunter? Seems like his skills would have been better utilized against the shadow demons than taxi driving a spaceship. Also it sounded like they were pronouncing J'onn more like Jean (French pronunciation) than John, as I've thought they did in the past. 

[AnimeMania]

I was surprised Hobo Green Arrow didn't follow Sara, Lois, and Brainy through the portal.

[tennisgurl]

I just cant accept that this, this, is the way they want to kill Oliver Queen. Its all just so lame, and yeah he died to save tons of people and got to shoot The Monitor with an arrow (which you just know he has been fantasizing about doing for ages) and get some last words with his daughter and some of his friends, but...he died of random injuries fighting a bunch of dementor knock offs? Without even getting to see Diggle or William again? In the first freaking episode?! There is no way that they can make this feel earned, the death of Oliver, the man who started it all, should have real gravitas to it, people should be allowed to spend the time to mourn him, as the audience, many of whom has been here for eight years now, and by killing him now, there is no way that we can really get that, with so much else going on. I am reserving my rage angry tears of fan rage until we see how this all plays out (because I am still decently convinced that he will come back for a last minute last stand, or some kind of happy ending) but if this is really all we get, that is some serious bullshit, and horribly disrespectful to both the character, and the fans. 

Anyway, on to other things, the opening with the references to the Titans verse, the 1989 Batman, Earth X, and of course, 60s Batman with Burt Ward as my favorite of them all! I just love thinking about Arrow taking place in the same universe as the 60s Batman show, it just tickles me. And, holy crap, the Titans verse was apparently just destroyed?! Does this mean the Doom Patrol was just wiped out?! Oh no Anti-Monitor, this time you have crossed the line! 

A lot of nice character interactions, I was especially happy to see Sara and Oliver getting some time together, even if some of it was old Oliver and Sara. We also got some nice stuff with Clark and Kara, Kelly taking her brothers shield was cool (but is James ok?!?) and I could watch Ray and Sara at trivia all day long, and thats really why I enjoy these crossovers so much. You get a lot of interaction between characters that are very different from each others and dont normally interact very much. 

Oh my God Lena, I get why your so pissed, but priorities girl! Be pissy when the universe isnt about to get eaten by darkness! 

Sticking a few billion people on Earth 1 can really only be a temporary solution at the very best, and unless they start sticking people in other universes and planets, this is going to be a total mess. Of course, I have my own theories about how all of this will end and how this will end up being settled, but that probably gets too far into comic book spoilers...

I knew that Nash would become Pariah! I so knew it! 

[phoenics]

50 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

But how would he know what to say to Mia? Unless E1 Oliver coached him? And if so, that’s just cruel. I just don’t see that making sense since Sara, Lois and Brainy came from 2046 E16 while Oliver was already in the bunker dying. 

Oh.  Good point.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

But Oliver can't be dead, right? He's only faking. After all he did for the Arrowverse, it wouldn't be fair. 

"But...what did The Monitor mean he`s dead...Oliver's only faking...right?"

"You want me to show this or not?"

"Well who gets The Anti-Monitor?"

"I dont understand?"

"Who kills The Anti-Monitor? At the end! Somebody's gotta do it? Is it Kara, who?"

"Nobody kills him, he lives."

"You mean he wins?! Jesus CW what did you show us this thing for?!

[bettername2come]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"But...what did The Monitor mean he`s dead...Oliver's only faking...right?"

"You want me to show this or not?"

"Well who gets The Anti-Monitor?"

"I dont understand?"

"Who kills The Anti-Monitor? At the end! Somebody's gotta do it? Is it Kara, who?"

"Nobody kills him, he lives."

"You mean he wins?! Jesus CW what did you show us this thing for?!

"You know, you're taking this story very seriously. I think we better stop now."

[Maverick]

 There was so much WTF in this episode that can't be explained away, but I am at least going to fanwank that Oliver made a special Monitor rippling arrow just in case, just as he (somewhat inexplicably) had a Kryptonite arrow.

 Also...Sarah, Oliver is not a good man on every Earth.   You do remember Fuhrer Queen from Earth X, right? 

[Jediknight]

Oliver isn't for real dead, no way do they kill Oliver Queen off in the first episode of Crisis.

Loved the return of Spike.  He should join up with the League in the final battle, along with Gumball and some Dominators.

Lena is protesting too much.  Her walls are falling down, and she's seeing the light again.  She'll be redeemed by the end of Crisis.

Oliver's reaction to Kate being Batwoman was great.

[catrox14]

I cried my eyes out at 2046 Oliver's confusion. He felt so different than current Oliver. Then I bawled to the end. I don't think this is Oliver's true death yet, but I think it will happen and I am nowhere near ready. I miss him already. 

SA has been especially brilliant all season in Arrow and it's breaking my heart. 😢😢😢😭😭😭

[teenj12]

10 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Also...Sarah, Oliver is not a good man on every Earth.   You do remember Fuhrer Queen from Earth X, right? 

Well, tbf he's dead anyway.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Three billion!

Exactly! And how many of those three billion are dopplegangers for Earth1 people? Where are those new people going to live? What if the dopplegangers are evil, creating mayhem in the lives of their E1 counterparts? Will there be jobs so the new arrivals can make a living? Won't there be similar anti-alien sentiment from E1 for the E38 arrivals like they had last season on "Supergirl"? Now E1 has to get used to living with actual extraterrestrials, not just meta-humans, including Superman and Supergirl. The writers did not think this through at all...

32 minutes ago, Maverick said:

  but I am at least going to fanwank that Oliver made a special Monitor rippling arrow just in case,

If the Monitor can be disabled by an arrow, then the Anti-Monitor doesn't seem like such a threat. Same thing about the Anti-Monitor's army being defeated by Earth weapons; that made no sense.

Edited December 9, 2019 by adora721

[ruby24]

Okay, I have no idea what the hell is going on. I haven't watched Arrow in years, and I don't know why there's two of him, I don't know why he has a daughter that's grown (wtf?), as far as I remember they don't do time travel stuff on Arrow, do they?

They did not explain this whole threat well at all. I have NO CLUE what is happening.

[adora721]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

7. And if this is permanent, how, exactly, is it going to affect some rather major things going forward - to start with, the presence of two different U.S. governments and two different secret U.S. agencies (ARGUS and the DEO)? To continue with, a presumed housing shortage.

Excellent points about two US gov't. Not just housing shortage, but water shortage as well.

Edited December 9, 2019 by adora721

[angora]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Unfair? I disagree.  I think Oliver deserves as much recognition as possible. THey could kill him ten times and give the heart to heart moment to different characters for each death and I would eat it up.  It's what he deserves.  He started it all and the irony of Oliver saying Barry is the best of them was that I feel the show made it clear that no, OLIVER is the Big Damn Hero.  He sacrificed it all.  His will made a near god back off and wait.  Oliver has always made the hard choices.  He's going to be the reason the whole universe survives. Two emotional goodbyes seems to me the least he deserves.  😄 

Sorry, I didn't mean "unfair" in the sense that Oliver doesn't deserve a heroic/emotional death scene. I mean, I find that doing a dramatic death scene, bringing the character back, and then doing ANOTHER dramatic death scene a few episodes later can have diminishing returns. Instead of going all out one one good death, doing multiple deaths in short succession can cheapen the subsequent ones, making the final, ultimate death feel less meaningful. I get that these are comic book shows, so most heroes are going to have death fakeouts/doppelganger deaths/reversed deaths at some point - I'm talking specifically about having two or more THIS IS THE END, WE'RE NOT KIDDING AROUND deaths almost back-to-back.

But then again, maybe I've just been burned by Doctor Who. In the Steven Moffat era in particular, between deaths and companion exits, I got tired of GOODBYE FOREVER! (two episodes later,) I'M BACK! (two episodes later,) GOODBYE FOREVER!

Re: the Earth-38 refugees, I'm assuming Earth-1 will just be a place for them to stay until Crisis is over. We know that Earth-1 has reliable breaching technology in Central City, so once everything calms down, those 3 billion people could be divvied up among remaining Earths. Who knows, maybe Cisco can work out some way to match groups of refugees with Earths that don't already have other versions of them living there?

(And yeah, I bet Earth-1 volunteers to host whatever aliens made it from Earth-38, with Supergirl and the DEO setting up shop there in New National City or whatever.)

[adora721]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

1. As everyone else is asking, how, exactly, is Earth 1 expected to absorb 3 billion people all at once? A site I just checked that I'm sure is 100% accurate because it's on the internet claims that our earth has about 7.7 billion people right now. 3 billion is 40% of that population. What are they going to eat? Can the oceans handle this? Does this make global warming worse? Are we supposed to believe that Earth 1 doesn't have global warming?  (I don't think we can, since Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow have all occasionally mentioned it.)

Also, it's not like Clark and Kara can just waltz into the E1 newspapers and claim their jobs when they belong to others.  And is James Olsen now dead? 

[quarks]

12 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Okay, I have no idea what the hell is going on. I haven't watched Arrow in years, and I don't know why there's two of him, I don't know why he has a daughter that's grown (wtf?), as far as I remember they don't do time travel stuff on Arrow, do they?

They did not explain this whole threat well at all. I have NO CLUE what is happening.

They didn't do time travel on Arrow until this season, when the Monitor started doing screwy time travel things (not just in this episode), ostensibly to set up Crisis on Infinite Earths but really to help wrap up eight seasons of Arrow and launch the next Arrow spinoff, which will feature Mia and other characters. 

The second, older Oliver was from an alternative Earth, initially shown as a potential future Earth on Legends of Tomorrow which for some inadequately explained reason Sara and Ray decided wasn't a future Earth, but a parallel Earth in this episode. 

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

1. As everyone else is asking, how, exactly, is Earth 1 expected to absorb 3 billion people all at once? A site I just checked that I'm sure is 100% accurate because it's on the internet claims that our earth has about 7.7 billion people right now. 3 billion is 40% of that population. What are they going to eat? Can the oceans handle this? Does this make global warming worse? Are we supposed to believe that Earth 1 doesn't have global warming?

And now we know why the Post-Crisis Star City 2040 we saw in season 7 of Arrow was such a dystopia and why heroes are hated. They inflicted Earth-1 with a population crisis that resulted in mass starvation, population displacement and political unrest that’s still shaking out in 2040. 😉

As to Ollie’s death... we already know via Constantine’s appearance over on Arrow that death isn’t the actual end and he’s stubborn enough that I half expect Ollie The White to descend from Heaven at the moment all seems lost leading an army of angels to take out the Anti-Monitor’s shadows. Because it’s Ollie and he isn’t going to let a little thing like death stop him from saving his family and friends.

Still it was a nice passing the torch moment with Mia.

[Diapason Untuned]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

She's helping but the hurt runs deep. She lived her life being rejected or made to feel like the poor relation. She thought she had finally found a group of friends who accepted her and had her back, only to find out that everyone was in the know, even newcomers like Brainy and Nia, except her.

I'm Team Lena on this one.

Lena is hardly a paragon of honesty herself.

Like Alex said, remember when she was hoarding kryptonite, or she was running human trials for her super drug, or most salient to this point, when she was holding their shared friend hostage in her basement?

Lena is a total hypocrite. 

That said, today was the first time I actually sympathized with her a little. I might be annoyed too if someone came to me with that speech to beg for my help to save the population of Earth, like that's not a self-evident thing to do.

She's still a hypocrite, among other things, but yeah, that certainly won't help things along. 

[TDT]

1 hour ago, Jenniferbug said:

For those that don't know, Titans has been renewed for a 3rd season, so it's permanent destruction is unlikely. 

Guess theyll probably show up in the Arrowverse and have a crossover or two with Batwoman..

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

Wait - so the Titans universe is gone?

That ... can't be.

That means to an extent Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing are gone as well(shame that show was cancelled too soon)

Off topic-that Birds Of Prey trailer.. *facepalm*

Edited December 9, 2019 by TDT

[Primal Slayer]

It was funny that E1 gets transported to E38, transformed into their outfits and Oliver has a magic box that has Mia's new outfit in it. Did Oliver request Lyla retrieve it? 

And they might as well have just had fly swatters while fighting the shadow demons...Batwoman was just punching and kicking the air swatting them away. Oliver should've just swirled around and he could've taken them all on.

[thuganomics85]

Crisis has finally arrived!

It might be because absence makes the heart grow fonder or maybe it's just because they're awesome in general, but my favorite moment was definitely seeing Ray and Sara again finally!  Of course, those two would be busy playing trivia games and lose out on free beer all because something Ray did accidentally screwed up the time line concerning Janis Joplin's career.  Classic Legends!  Can't wait for the rest of the gang to show up!

Second favorite moment or moments was definitely any Oliver/Sara scenes.  The history between them is something that is never going away, no matter what paths or dimensions they go.  Both Stephen Amell and Caity Lotz are really able to sell all of that, and it reminds me of the good old Season 2 Arrow days!

But let us just dive right into the main revelation: Oliver Freaking Queen dies in the first hour!  Yeah, I'm going to guess this won't be permanent.  It is still possible Oliver's eventual end will be tragic, but if he is truly going to die, it will be surrounded by his actual teammates, family, and hopefully Felicity.  Not the likes of Barry and Kara who, yes, have a connection to him, but they don't have the history that makes his death really have an impact.  So, I'm guessing this is just a way to have him out of the picture a bit, and let the likes of Barry and Kara take front and center, since they both took a backseat this go around.  Unless they plan on bringing the other Oliver back to keep Amell involved.  Either way, I really can't see "our" Oliver being dead for good.  He better not be.

Definitely tossed in a lot of characters here and not everyone really got a moment to shine, but it was fun seeing a few new pairings like Kate and Ray (oh, boy, I don't know if I'm excited or scared if she and Mick ever cross paths!), Sara/Lois/Brainy, and Mia awkwardly "Hi, guys!  I'm Oliver's daughter!  Don't ask!" introduction.

With respect to Henry Cavill, Tyler Hoechlin continues to be the best current Clark/Superman.  

Spoiler

Of course, apparently not only will Brandon Routh be bringing back his version down the line, but Tom Welling as well, so we'll see how that goes!

Hey, The Monitor is backing to be a supernatural dick, who acts like a corporate drone, and has now dragged Lyla into it as well!

I do wonder who all from Kara's Earth survived.  I feel awful, but considering how poorly they've treated James, I can see them (even his own sister!) forgetting to warn him, and the last thing he sees is the impending doom, sighs, and just says "Thanks for the warning, assholes!"

On actual Supergirl show news: Lena is still pissy about everything, but at least can chill on the hate to help save some of the planet, so yay?  I did like her scenes with Alex, and I didn't mind Alex rolling over a bit, because I think she knew that it was best to humble herself to Lena for now.  But this better lead to Lena accepting that she can't blame all of her misdeeds on Kara and the gang's betrayal.  Again, I think Lena has legit grievances, but she has gone about it in the completely worst way possible.

And we have Nash to thank for this whole Anti-Monitor thing.  Hey, even with that, I'll still take him over the Council of Wells!

Solid start.  Curious to see how these next few hours play out and who else shows up!

[RobertDeSneero]

Sara telling Old Man Ollie that he is a good man on every Earth feels like foreshadowing that they are going to get an alternate Ollie to do whatever the Monitor thinks he should do.

I'm not going to obsess over what this means for Earth-1 to accept 3 billion refugees because there are so many ways for this to play out, including the destruction of other earths to be undone, or for those refugees to be sent to another earth, or for something like the ending to the comic book CoIE.

The Burt Ward cameo was nice, but didn't look like he was in any condition to do any action stuff.  I did not recognize Wil Wheaton and only found out it was him while looking up some other stuff.

I'm going to forgive a lot of plot holes and inconsistencies if there is a lot of fan service-y fun like Avengers Endgame.

[Cthulhudrew]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

They did not explain this whole threat well at all. I have NO CLUE what is happening.

I agree. Up to this point, there was this vague "anti-matter wave" threat, but then Lilah- err, "Harbinger"- mentions offhandedly that the Anti-Monitor is sending goons to break the Quantum Tower that staves off the waves. First mention of the Anti-Monitor so far, and it just gets casually dropped, with no follow up.

Then at the very end Nash- sorry, "Pariah"- shows up and says he let the Anti-Monitor loose. Which I take to mean was the entire point of his otherwise pointless appearances on the Flash this season where he spent nearly the entirety of them hanging out in the sewers alone and occasionally in the company of other people who just happen to find a reason to go down there.

More to be told, but hopefully episode 2 will address some of these plot points.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Cthulhudrew

[Starfish35]

Regarding the trip to Earth-16 2046.....I’m confused.  That is not the 2046 timeline that Sara and the Legends visited back in season one.  I know Sara initially thought it was (for some reason), but.....no.  That Oliver knew Sara didn’t die on the Gambit, and that she returned to Star City only to leave on the Waverider with the other Legends in 2016.  This Oliver has no knowledge of Sara having survived the shipwreck.  They can’t be the same universes.  Do the writers want us to believe they are?  Is this a “we’ve done our best to forget everything about season one and we hope the viewers have too” thing? 😂

Edited December 9, 2019 by Starfish35

[bmoore4026]

"Holy Crimson Skies of Death!"  Oh, I'll miss you, 1960s Robin 😞

And the '89 Batman movie universe exists!  And then was wiped out.  Guessing Nolan Batmanverse got wiped out, too.  Unfortunately, we're still stuck with the DCEU.  Oh, that reminds me - I wish Zachary Levi had a little cameo. 

WB Online Earth got wiped out, too.  Foul Mouthed Titans are gone, but then again so are Doom Patrol.  Oh, you are evil, Anti-Monitor.

Apparently, the Shadow Demons want to tender you up first before they kill you instead of just touching you and horrifically disintegrating your body.

Well, this will be the last season of Arrow.  Don't know why they'd kill off Oli in Supergirl.  Maybe they'll bring in Old Man Oli for the rest of the season? 

Lastly, why didn't they give Harbinger blond hair?  And where the hell is Psycho Pirate!?

[UNOSEZ]

4 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

That said, today was the first time I actually sympathized with her a little. I might be annoyed too if someone came to me with that speech to beg for my help to save the population of Earth, like that's not a self-evident thing to do.

Agreed... Except she wasn't doing anything.. Just sitting staring at the tower... Based on her words she knew something major was going down.. She called it the apocalypse.. Did she reach out to the DEO or supergirl.. Who she knows for a fact are always trying to save the world... No... And when Alex comes in.. Its all petty whining and straight up lies ( eve tessmacher did it)  she tries to brainwash 7 billion ppl and gets mad that a possible deterrent was even thought of being used against her... Every statement she makes about Kara and the crew showing who they really were could easily be thrown back in her face.. But no one has so they're just letting her be a petulant child 

[Starry]

Oliver isn't dead. His death wasn't emotional enough for this to be his end.

The episode had a couple questionable directing choices. I think Oliver's death scene was shot weirdly and I didn't feel anyone's acting. I don't know how to explain it but it's like the scene was muted. It can't be an acting issue because it's not possible that no-one was bringing their A game in what should have been one of the crossover most poignant scenes. But I am positive this isn't it for Oliver so I'll let it slide.

Cavanagh's whisper acting annoys me. Pariah isn't like his other Wells characters. He's the opposite so he should lose all the quirks he uses for his other characters, whispering included.

Barry's presence was superfluous. I understand why he was there but he didn't do or say anything noteworthy. It's worse than what I expected considering Crisis has been teased on Flash since the beginning. They had Barry show up to explain that he did or was about to do stuff off screen. Even in the final battle with the Shadow Demons they didn't bother to showcase the Flash's powers. All I saw was him punching the demons which was just dumb. Flash has botched the Crisis build-up and Barry has already been rendered superfluous in the first crossover episode. I am upset about this.

Kate and Ray were too much and too one-note IMO. But I did like Sara and her scenes with both Olivers. They are a good duo with great chemistry and the emotions were there. I liked that Sara used the other Oliver to express herself and how much she's gained because of her choice to board the Gambit with him but I don't know how that's supposed to let Earth-16 Oliver feel better when his Sara is still dead.

Brainy, Lois and Sara teaming up was cute. Brainy is the best. I loved the first Clois scene in Argo. I would have liked to get a bit more in their goodbye and reunion scenes before and after she went get back their baby.

I liked the Alex and Lena moments. They were in character considering how Lena has been behaving on Supergirl this season. It's hard for me to be on her side though. For a moment there I was afraid Lena was going to be impressed with Alex protecting her which would have been stupid considering she had to stay alive or no more portal. Glad that they proved me wrong and Lena is still holding a grudge. That story needs to be resolved after the crossover.

I would have liked more emotion from Kara after her mom's death instead of her scene with Clark being focused on hope and the Krypton legacy.

The Titans and Ray cameos were nice.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Starry said:

I would have liked more emotion from Kara after her mom's death instead of her scene with Clark being focused on hope and the Krypton legacy.

That scene did remind me that technically Kara is the older cousin and actually has a real connection to Krypton and the House of El.. ( which I wish she woulda brought up in the otherwise great scene)