S39.E07: I Was Born at Night, But Not Last Night

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, PaperTree said:

Jamal always seems to be "mansplaining", even when talking to other men.

He also he called the women, "girls", which is pretty offensive to a lot of people.  What makes it worse is that 3 of the 4 "girls" are older than Jamal and one is old enough to be his mother.

Now, do I think that makes Jamal sexist?  Not necessarily.  But, if you are going to be a political correctness fanatic towards others and make a huge deal over "durag" you damned well better not call a bunch of grown women, "girls".   

[PaperTree]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Now, do I think that makes Jamal sexist?  Not necessarily.  But, if you are going to be a political correctness fanatic towards others and make a huge deal over "durag" you damned well better not call a bunch of grown women, "girls".   

This!

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

A man is not a woman, and he's never claimed to be a fanatic.  

He made an enormous deal over Jack calling his buff a durag, but then called 4 grown women "girls".  

If you are going to hold others to stringent standards of word choice, you need to watch your own words.  

[Wandering Snark]

I think the big risk there was involving Noura in the vote, she who proves time and again that she can hide exactly nothing of what she thinks/feels from just spilling out of her mouth. It would have been "cleaner" has she just counted on her connection with Dean to be enough to have him vote for Jack. If she felt the need to 'save' him then she should by the same token have felt enough to trust him without involving the town crier into her plan.

There's just something about Jamal that really bugs me, maybe it's that oh so high horse he insists on riding through the game/his life on.

[Bryce Lynch]

Lauren continued to annoy me with her whining about being "betrayed and lied to" by Missy.

a) Missy is from the other tribe and your natural enemy not your ally.

b) This is Survivor.  Lying and betrayal are part of the game. 

However, I was impressed with how she finally pulled herself together and got Tommy to join her in throwing Feely Dan under the bus.  

I haven't been a big Missy fan, but I was impressed with how she saw right through Lauren and Tommy and realized that the 2 of them are a bigger threat than Feely Dan.  

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

I think the big risk there was involving Noura in the vote, she who proves time and again that she can hide exactly nothing of what she thinks/feels from just spilling out of her mouth. It would have been "cleaner" has she just counted on her connection with Dean to be enough to have him vote for Jack. If she felt the need to 'save' him then she should by the same token have felt enough to trust him without involving the town crier into her plan.

There's just something about Jamal that really bugs me, maybe it's that oh so high horse he insists on riding through the game/his life on.

The thing about Noura is that she is so unreliable and bad at lying, that it almost makes her reliable and good at lying.

As Rob put it, "She can't coherently communicate anything to anyone."

I think her incoherence sort of became her super power tonight and confused the heck out of Jamal.

[Wandering Snark]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The thing about Noura is that she is so unreliable and bad at lying, that it almost makes her reliable and good at lying.

True, but then again if you are going to count on someone to lie wwho you know is a 'bad liar' why not just make the vote yourself and lie about it later? Seems safer than relying on Noura. Counting on one person in a plan is better than relying on two especially when the second is Noura!

[healthnut]

Kellee votes for Dean and keeps her cover. She had Noura vote Jack in case Dean screwed her and voted for her instead of Jack. What doesn’t make sense is why the heck Jamal played an idol for Noura. Stupid. 

Clearly they had a reward challenge we missed. I don’t care about the challenge but I would’ve liked to have seen Lairo react to Jason being voted off. 

[TVFan1]

That was another blindside to me. I wasn't expecting Jack to go, I thought Jamal was going for sure after Dean played Kellee's idol. Kellee has game. What she managed to pull off was impressive. 

Karishma was very smug in her voting confessional about how Dean tried to get her out three times and failed and how she was going to get him out on her first shot. Guess what, you missed.

Like how Janet didn't play the game for a chance for that advantage. I hope it was foreshadowing when Sandra was hoping for a woman as the winner of this season.

[Machiabelly]

8 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

No, they would revote and could only vote for Jack or Dean. It’s only when there is a tie that no one wants to break that the other people, who did not get any votes, become vulnerable. 

If Jamal played his idol for Jack, on the revote the majority would have voted Dean out. 

No, I don't think so. Isn't that how Cirie lost? Everyone else had an idol played and so in the revote she would have been the only target. She went out without a vote actually cast for her.

[LadyChatts]

12 minutes ago, Machiabelly said:

No, I don't think so. Isn't that how Cirie lost? Everyone else had an idol played and so in the revote she would have been the only target. She went out without a vote actually cast for her.

Jack and Dean would have been immune from the vote, since they were both saved by idols.  I assume there would be a re-vote, and they would basically start over with who to vote for.  Maybe they just go to rocks in this case?

Edited November 7, 2019 by LadyChatts

[Cotypubby]

14 minutes ago, Machiabelly said:

No, I don't think so. Isn't that how Cirie lost? Everyone else had an idol played and so in the revote she would have been the only target. She went out without a vote actually cast for her.

Wait you’re right! I completely confused myself. 🙂 If you play an idol you’re safe, the revote of those who got votes is for ties.

Yeah, if both Dean and Jack played idols, one of the others would have been voted out!

Edited November 7, 2019 by Cotypubby

[blackwing]

I absolutely detest Jamal.  Last week he was all offended at what he believed to be a racist comment from Jack.  This week he spouts all this nonsense about being threatened by a women’s alliance.  He is quick to call others out on their stereotyping and offensiveness but has absolutely no problems with doing the same himself.  What an ass.

I really wish Dean had voted for Jamal.  Don’t understand why Kellee voted for Dean after giving him the idol, I guess it’s so she could blend in.  

[Bobby R.]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Dean.  Goddammit, when he smiles he looks like someone famous and I can't place it.  I'm starting to turn the corner into thinking he is hot now.

I……. enjoyed remembering how hot he was

Awwwwww.  I just saw Jack's enthusiasm for being on the jury.

WTF?  I'm in Canada and I didn't see anything about Rudy 😞

Dean looks like Noah Wyle from ER.

[LadyChatts]

22 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I absolutely detest Jamal.  Last week he was all offended at what he believed to be a racist comment from Jack.  This week he spouts all this nonsense about being threatened by a women’s alliance.  He is quick to call others out on their stereotyping and offensiveness but has absolutely no problems with doing the same himself.  What an ass.

I really wish Dean had voted for Jamal.  Don’t understand why Kellee voted for Dean after giving him the idol, I guess it’s so she could blend in.  

I think Kellee voted for Dean to not attract suspicion.  There were already 2 votes for Jack.  Why add a third?  She knew Dean was safe (and if he was stupid enough not to play the idol, that would be on him).  It was a risk, but for now, it paid off.  We'll see down the road.  

[ByaNose]

18 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I absolutely detest Jamal.  Last week he was all offended at what he believed to be a racist comment from Jack.  This week he spouts all this nonsense about being threatened by a women’s alliance.  He is quick to call others out on their stereotyping and offensiveness but has absolutely no problems with doing the same himself.  What an ass.

I really wish Dean had voted for Jamal.  Don’t understand why Kellee voted for Dean after giving him the idol, I guess it’s so she could blend in.  

Somehow Kellee thought Jack was more of a threat than Jamal.  She had valid points on each guy but we’ll have to see how it plays out. I thought it was a fun & great move but a little early. She didn’t really have to do anything but wanted to see her special idol played. Personally, I would like to have seen Jamal voted out, too. I was hoping it wouldn’t have to see anymore of his moobs on display. Jeez! Put a shirt on. I’m looking forward to seeing Jacks Ponderosa to see what his thoughts were in real time. 

[30 Helens]

4 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I liked Jack, don’t know why he was a threat. 

That’s just it— so did everyone else, according to Kellee.

1 minute ago, ByaNose said:

Somehow Kellee thought Jack was more of a threat than Jamal.  

And if this board reflects the camp’s opinion, she was right! Here, Jack= loved. Jamal= not so much.

I really enjoyed seeing the wheels spin in Kellee’s head, as she came up with her plan in the middle of her confessional.

I also have to applaud her for her acting skills. And Missy, for being too sharp to be snowed. And Janet, for being level headed enough to recognize a foolish risk.

Damn, looks like Sandra may be right! The women really do seem to have the edge at this point. And I, too, would love to see an “older” woman win. To date, who’s the oldest female to win this? Tina? (And she was what, 35?) Or would it be Sandra, with her 2nd win?

[BK1978]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

So the jury starts with Jack?  I’m sad to see him go.  I was really hoping it was going to be Jamal.  I remembered tonight why I didn’t like him. 

I agree with Sandra, it’s looking good for the women this season.  Still a long way to go.  But Janet for the win!

I hate it when the jury starts before the merge.  At least allow everyone the opportunity to know each other before you create the jury.

I said the same thing Sandra said, but I said it during the first episode.  I am not sure why but I just got this vibe that a woman was going to win.  My like when I am watching baseball and I get this strong feeling that the batter is going to hit a homerun (I am right more often than not when I get those feelings.  Not I am not claiming to be Miss Cleo or anything.).

My pick to win was Lauren but I highly doubt that is going to happen now.  But I would be cool with Kellee or Janet winning.  Kellee mainly because of the move she made tonight and Janet because I always like to see the older contestants do well, especially the older women contestants because they are typically viewed as early boots.

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I didn’t need a flashback to last season and the winner who was the third person blindsided and voted out. 

He was hands down the worst winner ever.  I was so disappointed in that outcome.  Shit they said his name in the episode tonight and I still can't remember it.  

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I can't believe people are keeping Karishma's dead weight self around. Sure she's no threat in individual challenges and she supposedly has no loyalty to her old tribe but I also don't believe she has any loyalty to anyone. Karishma will make it to the end playing the "anyone but me" game where she'll happily vote any and all out, as long as it's not her. Which I guess great for her but not exactly a truly solid and loyal number for anyone because I don't buy she's loyal to anyone. 

Now that she's made the merge, I have a feeling she is going to be around for the long haul.  I mean why get rid of her?  She's the perfect goat.

What happened with Feely Dan during the episode?  I was out in the kitchen and I did not see what went down.  

[BK1978]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:32 AM, 30 Helens said:

That’s just it— so did everyone else, according to Kellee.

And if this board reflects the camp’s opinion, she was right! Here, Jack= loved. Jamal= not so much.

I really enjoyed seeing the wheels spin in Kellee’s head, as she came up with her plan in the middle of her confessional.

I also have to applaud her for her acting skills. And Missy, for being too sharp to be snowed. And Janet, for being level headed enough to recognize a foolish risk.

Damn, looks like Sandra may be right! The women really do seem to have the edge at this point. And I, too, would love to see an “older” woman win. To date, who’s the oldest female to win this? Tina? (And she was what, 35?) Or would it be Sandra, with her 2nd win?

Denise Stapley I think. 

Yes it was Denise.  She was 41 when she won (I thought she was older than that).

Edited November 9, 2019 by BK1978
I know the above post looks weird, I gave the answer before looking it up to see if I was correct. Also, because I put one instead of won. I swear I am not that dumb.

[LadyChatts]

2 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

I hate it when the jury starts before the merge.  At least allow everyone the opportunity to know each other before you create the jury.

I said the same thing Sandra said, but I said it during the first episode.  I am not sure why but I just got this vibe that a woman was going to win.  My like when I am watching baseball and I get this strong feeling that the batter is going to hit a homerun (I am right more often than not when I get those feelings.  Not I am not claiming to be Miss Cleo or anything.).

My pick to win was Lauren but I highly doubt that is going to happen now.  But I would be cool with Kellee or Janet winning.  Kellee mainly because of the move she made tonight and Janet because I always like to see the older contestants do well, especially the older women contestants because they are typically viewed as early boots.

He was hands down the worst winner ever.  I was so disappointed in that outcome.  Shit they said his name in the episode tonight and I still can't remember it.  

Now that she's made the merge, I have a feeling she is going to be around for the long haul.  I mean why get rid of her?  She's the perfect goat.

What happened with Feely Dan during the episode?  I was out in the kitchen and I did not see what went down.  

If I'm correct, it looked like while NuVokai was sleeping he flopped his arm and I think his leg around one of the women (someone did that, and I assume it was Dan since they were talking about him the next day and the close quarters).  I was actually expecting more to come of it, honestly.  Maybe it's foreshadowing?  

I want Janet to win simply because she's the oldest contestant out there, and didn't hesitant to flash her tribe on the way back from IOTI.  I did love how she apologized to the guy driving the boat.  

I agree about Karishma.  When Tom was voted out over her, I realized it made perfect sense.  Karishma is going to be no competition once the individual challenges start.  She doesn't appear well liked.  She's a number to whoever will have her.  So she can be lethal to your game if she flips, but otherwise she's perfect fodder.  

I agree about Jack being on the jury, before he's had a chance to meet everyone.  

[GaT]

Very nice play on Kellee's part, she played it perfectly. I don't understand why Jamal wasted his idol on Noura though.

[ByaNose]

51 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

If I'm correct, it looked like while NuVokai was sleeping he flopped his arm and I think his leg around one of the women (someone did that, and I assume it was Dan since they were talking about him the next day and the close quarters).  I was actually expecting more to come of it, honestly.  Maybe it's foreshadowing?  

I want Janet to win simply because she's the oldest contestant out there, and didn't hesitant to flash her tribe on the way back from IOTI.  I did love how she apologized to the guy driving the boat.  

I agree about Karishma.  When Tom was voted out over her, I realized it made perfect sense.  Karishma is going to be no competition once the individual challenges start.  She doesn't appear well liked.  She's a number to whoever will have her.  So she can be lethal to your game if she flips, but otherwise she's perfect fodder.  

I agree about Jack being on the jury, before he's had a chance to meet everyone.  

I would never been able to tell who was whom sleeping on top of each other. If it hadn’t been for the play by play the next morning I wouldn’t have any idea it was Dan. He’s hardly been shown and when he has been shown it hasn’t been good. His exit interviews are gonna be rough for him. I know he had he had the Kellee conversation at the beginning of the season but I wonder if he even knew or remembered what they showed last night. He is getting a horrible edit and he’s hardly even on the show. A bad sign all over. 

[Cthulhudrew]

At tribal tonight, it suddenly struck me that Noura reminds me of the feral kid in Road Warrior.

[loki567]

I'm getting a little nervous about Survivor giving social lessons. Why? Because this is a fundamentally selfish game. There is a women's alliance. Jamal correctly called it out. The women framed it as sexism to back him down and he did, because he's probably worried about his career back home. 

I'm just not sure if Survivor should be painting one side or viewpoint as completely "right," when every move out there has an agenda. I don't think it really "educates," people. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's a negative. Because the people who need to be educated will chalk these conversations up to selfish motives. 

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Now, do I think that makes Jamal sexist?  Not necessarily.  But, if you are going to be a political correctness fanatic towards others and make a huge deal over "durag" you damned well better not call a bunch of grown women, "girls".   

And furthermore, you damned well better not call an older woman Momma, as in "Momma Janet"! I was all how very dare you! After all the lengthy lecturing to Jack in the previous episode over his friendly blunder, I was surprised Jamal felt just fine making assumptions about a woman's comfortability with his ageism, regardless of how affectionately it was meant. 

So sad Jack is gone, I was hoping to see Jamal burn his idol and go out - with something big to sulk about this time!

[tvfanatic13]

What happened to Sandra’s arms?

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Wait you’re right! I completely confused myself. 🙂 If you play an idol you’re safe, the revote of those who got votes is for ties.

Yeah, if both Dean and Jack played idols, one of the others would have been voted out!

I wonder who would have gone home.  I think Jack, Jamal and Janet would vote for Karishma to keep Vokai's numbers.  

Kellee, Dean and Noura would probably vote Jamal.   That would make Karishma the deciding vote.

There probably would have been a lot of whispering or even yelling to sway her.  Kellee, Dean and Noura would probably come right out and tell her what they did with the idol to convince her to vote Jamal.   

I think Karishma would probably go along and Jamal would be voted out.  If she didn't and put her vote on someone else, it would be 3-3-1.  There would be a revote, where the other 5 would choose between her and Jamal.

I assume, Kellee, Dean and Noura would vote Jamal and he would be voted out 3-2.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I hate it when the jury starts before the merge.  At least allow everyone the opportunity to know each other before you create the jury.

I said the same thing Sandra said, but I said it during the first episode.  I am not sure why but I just got this vibe that a woman was going to win.  My like when I am watching baseball and I get this strong feeling that the batter is going to hit a homerun (I am right more often than not when I get those feelings.  Not I am not claiming to be Miss Cleo or anything.).

My pick to win was Lauren but I highly doubt that is going to happen now.  But I would be cool with Kellee or Janet winning.  Kellee mainly because of the move she made tonight and Janet because I always like to see the older contestants do well, especially the older women contestants because they are typically viewed as early boots.

He was hands down the worst winner ever.  I was so disappointed in that outcome.  Shit they said his name in the episode tonight and I still can't remember it.  

Now that she's made the merge, I have a feeling she is going to be around for the long haul.  I mean why get rid of her?  She's the perfect goat.

What happened with Feely Dan during the episode?  I was out in the kitchen and I did not see what went down.  

How about a Karishma, Noura and Dean All Goat final 3.  

[Ellee]

27 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

What happened to Sandra’s arms?

I wondered too.  Link to cbs site regarding Sandra’s bandages.  

https://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/video/7975AC66-7C8C-256C-14E0-41BDF70E05A0/survivor-island-of-the-idols-sandra-s-bandages/ 

[Bryce Lynch]

44 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

What happened to Sandra’s arms?

Blisters on her hands due to contact dermatitis.

[PhoneCop]

I've been pulling for a female winner since the second or third episode. The men are all...dud is a strong word, but I don't see an obvious winner among them. Dean's dopey with no real game. Jamal's good at figuring out puzzles but not how to talk to people. Feely Dan, 'nuff said. I would say only Tommy has gotten a neutral-ish edit, but he gives me Todd vibes and so I need him to lose. Pagong away, ladies!

[blackwing]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

Very nice play on Kellee's part, she played it perfectly. I don't understand why Jamal wasted his idol on Noura though.

I am puzzled too, because he said he was afraid he was going home due to a women’s alliance.   Then he plays his idol for the woman he thought was at the head of the women’s alliance that was supposedly trying to take him out.  Odd.  I suppose the only thing is that he knew Dean would vote for someone and that he thought everyone was voting out Dean and that he didn’t want Dean to be the sole vote for Noura.

Really wish Kellee would have gone with Jamal instead of Jack.  I just can’t stand listening to Jamal’s voice anymore.  He has this slow and condescending tone to him, as in “I am so much smarter than you and everything I say is right”.  So annoying.  

[Ashforth]

I loved Survivor when it premiered (flew to Houston to watch the S1 finale with my late sister - omg were we outraged that Richard won! Good times!) Over the years, I lost interest, so now it's been a while since I watched Survivor, but I have watched a few episodes this season. Things seem... off.

The Applebee's promotion was grossly over the top. The contestants look really clean in the talking heads and at tribal council, as if they have showered and shaved and are wearing freshly laundered clothes. Why are the women all wearing lacy bras? The sets look like... sets, not like the action is taking place in the alleged location of the contest. The TC of this episode, in particular, seemed scripted. To me, it all feels fake, not at all like the original seasons. 

I'm sad for Survivor.

[Tdoc72]

36 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Blisters on her hands due to contact dermatitis.

Thanks. I didn’t want to watch a 15 second ad for Star Wars to find out. 

17 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I just can’t stand listening to Jamal’s voice anymore.  He has this slow and condescending tone to him, as in “I am so much smarter than you and everything I say is right”.  So annoying.  

I want to like him, b/c he reminds me of Cedric Yarbrough (actor on Carol’s 2nd Act, The Goldbergs, Speechless, et al) who I really like. But then I can’t stand the ways he talks down to everyone.  I hope he goes soon and it’s a blindside. 

[Haleth]

I get that Kellee voted for Dean to cover her tracks but it seems awfully risky to count on Noura to vote for Jack instead of doing it herself.  She was a teeny bit afraid Dean would vote for her (Kellee) so she needed someone to vote for someone else just in case, so she picked Noura, the loose cannon, of all people?  I'm glad it worked out as she planned, but maybe she should have a word with Rob about risk/reward.

Did Jeff say that Jack was on the jury?  Isn't that confirmation that the merge is next?

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

If I'm correct, it looked like while NuVokai was sleeping he flopped his arm and I think his leg around one of the women (someone did that, and I assume it was Dan since they were talking about him the next day and the close quarters). 

Elizabeth maybe?  That is so gross.  A half naked man she barely knows spooning like that.  Yuck.

The women are definitely getting the stronger, more strategic edit.  Except for Karishma.

[Eolivet]

Here's the thing that bothers me so much about last night's tribal council. Survivor's track record with women's issues is actually horrible.

Oh, you want to get into #metoo, Survivor -- let's talk Sue Hawk on All Stars? What's that? You'd rather talk about how we all should admire Angelina? (who ... got no votes, was dragged to the end as a goat and hitched her wagon to two men?)

You want to talk about how hard women have it, Survivor? Let's talk about how women on this show are dressed in bikinis, excoriated for showmances and get called out for underperforming in challenges. Let's talk about how you called Parvati "one of the most devious villains this show has ever seen" and you had a woman quit because you gave her no clothes, and then made her invisible with editing. Let's talk about how you've devised a final four fire-making challenge that's heavily favored towards men.

Better yet, let's talk about how you have the perfect vehicle to have the #metoo discussion this season in Feely Dan! But I virtually guarantee that you won't. Because you wasted it on "women's alliances = bad," which is much more comfortable to address than the women this season essentially getting groped without their consent.

God, I hated this so much. Nothing but feel-good grandstanding so Jeff Probst can pat himself on the back as being sensitive to "women's issues" outside of Survivor, while doing absolutely nothing about the very real women's issues that do exist on Survivor.

Okay, boomer.

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

That was another blindside to me. I wasn't expecting Jack to go, I thought Jamal was going for sure after Dean played Kellee's idol. Kellee has game. What she managed to pull off was impressive. 

Karishma was very smug in her voting confessional about how Dean tried to get her out three times and failed and how she was going to get him out on her first shot. Guess what, you missed.

Like how Janet didn't play the game for a chance for that advantage. I hope it was foreshadowing when Sandra was hoping for a woman as the winner of this season.

Plus, it wasn't like Karishma was orchestrating some blindside of Dean.  She would have just been going along with the rest of the tribe who wanted him out, with her as 2nd choice, if Kellee didn't have her moment of inspiration.

[Ellee]

Any chance Jamal Kelley and Janet are far tighter than we think?  Three intelligent articulate people. 

The only one saying Jamal’s name is Noura.  Noura will be pro-Jamal now. Dean now owes Kelley. Karishma will stay with them just because.  That’s five votes along with 3 from the other tribe. Original Vokai members. 

Jamal didn’t look like a person that ‘might not be there tomorrow.’

I’m missing something on this.  Tell me please. 

[amazingracefan]

I liked Janet's response to her test, though I also thought it was quite an obvious answer to have to the offer as well.  It was just a contrast to the ridiculous gung-ho attitude of previous visitors.

The whole episode was really about Kellee's play and I thought the idea was a good one.  Whether she genuinely had worry that Dean would vote her out after receiving her idol I don't know.  We didn't see what she told either him or Noura, just that she was happy with either Jamal or Jack going. 

I really expected Jamal to go from what we saw earlier in the episode, there was very little on Jack.  Noura already stated she was anti-Jamal, I wonder how shocked she was that he played her his idol.  It would have a further twist had she wrote his name down after having been given an idol.  I'm not sure how much Jack going really benefits Kellee though, before thinking about the long game she should think shorter term.  But it was Dean and Noura who did the votes anyway and they were obviously not that keen on Jack.

Noura was funny at tribal but I often wonder how much of tribal is staged now, to create an impression on someone they want to blindside.  Noura obviously wanted to make sure Dean played the idol.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

I liked Janet's response to her test, though I also thought it was quite an obvious answer to have to the offer as well.  It was just a contrast to the ridiculous gung-ho attitude of previous visitors.

The whole episode was really about Kellee's play and I thought the idea was a good one.  Whether she genuinely had worry that Dean would vote her out after receiving her idol I don't know.  We didn't see what she told either him or Noura, just that she was happy with either Jamal or Jack going. 

I really expected Jamal to go from what we saw earlier in the episode, there was very little on Jack.  Noura already stated she was anti-Jamal, I wonder how shocked she was that he played her his idol.  It would have a further twist had she wrote his name down after having been given an idol.  I'm not sure how much Jack going really benefits Kellee though, before thinking about the long game she should think shorter term.  But it was Dean and Noura who did the votes anyway and they were obviously not that keen on Jack.

Noura was funny at tribal but I often wonder how much of tribal is staged now, to create an impression on someone they want to blindside.  Noura obviously wanted to make sure Dean played the idol.

I also liked the way Janet thought things through and I think she made the right decision.  I don't think it was a total no-brainer though.  It would have been nice to have the walk away from tribal advantage in her pocket.  Though if she needed to use it, it would probably mean she was in a bad situation, that would only get worse if she left tribal without voting and another one of her alliance members got voted out.  It could basically buy her time to scramble, win immunity or find an idol. 

I think Kellee, Dean and Noura made the rational decision to take out Jack, rather than the emotional one to take out Jamal.  Jack seems like a much bigger threat post merge.  On the other hand, Jamal seems a lot more likely to take the betrayal personally than Jack.  

I think Noura is just a loose cannon "Who can't coherently communicate anything to anyone."  She just rambles in a stream of  consciousness (semi-consciousness?). But, that actually can make her harder to read, because even she doesn't seem to know when she is telling the truth and when she is lying.  

I am on the fence about Kellee's big moment of inspiration move.  I think having Dean instead of Jack post merge is marginally better for her, but I'm not sure that difference was worth the risk of Dean betraying her to Jack and Jamal and sending her home.

Also, Old Vokai now only has a 7-6 advantage and Jamal might be bitter towards her, if he finds out what happens, he might be able to turn the other OVs against her.  

Does she now flip and join OL and start voting off Jamal, Tommy, Dan, Lauren, etc.  

It would be hilarious, if after all the outrage of Jamal's fear of a women's alliance, Kellee actually organizes one.  

[Haleth]

I loved the dramatic music as Kellee's idea formed in her head.  The crescendo that matched her movements.  Good job, editors.

I was thinking that Janet's advantage to flee might have been nice in her pocket if she thought things were going badly for her at TC.  However there was no guarantee that she would have won the advantage, so it wasn't worth the risk of losing her vote.  Vote > an advantage that she may or may not use.

[Special K]

Jamal:  "I work at a girls' school so I know that girls when they get together have some magic juju that destroys us powerless men."   Next he'll want to burn the "girls'" alliance at the stake to, you know, save the poor men from their witchcraft.

And then later, "I'm beaming with pride that these girls are now able to speak their truth."

Ugh, I cannot even find the words to describe how furious he makes me. 

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It would be hilarious, if after all the outrage of Jamal's fear of a women's alliance, Kellee actually organizes one.  

This would be great.  And in her final TC speech, she could thank Jamal for the idea

[OFDgal]

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Can somebody explain to me like I'm stupid what on earth calling out the total double standard of being afraid of a women's alliance (vs a guy's alliance) -- an amazing and well-articulated point -- has to do with the #metoo movement? That felt inorganic and trying way, way too hard to "have a moment."

And because they had to take an extra 20 minutes for this labored tribal council, we got absolutely no context for why Dean and Noura (?) cast the only deciding votes for who went home?

Last week didn't detract from the episode, where I felt this week's did. And it's not like it was unavoidable (like the very powerful tribal council with Zeke). But in their efforts to pat themselves on the back for calling out the irrational fear of women's alliances and ... I guess the fact that the #metoo movement exists, they need to remember their main job is to put on an entertaining television show.

I agree with you.  I want to watch the game of Survivor not the contestants "having a moment."  

[Bryce Lynch]

While Jamal irritates me, and his dismissing Kellee from fire building and his condescending virtue signalling and calling the grown women in his tribe "girl" was kind of sexist, I don't think his concerns about a women's alliance were sexist at all.

In Survivor, people are always looking for any sort of reasonable or arbitrary reason to pull people together into an alliance.  Original tribe members is the most common one.  But, any sort of commonality can be used, and gender is as good as any.  If women, especially ones in the minority alliance or at the bottom of the majority alliance, can put together an alliance based upon gender, that makes sense for them, that is smart Survivor play.  It is not sexist to suspect women of being smart.  

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Ashforth said:

I loved Survivor when it premiered (flew to Houston to watch the S1 finale with my late sister - omg were we outraged that Richard won! Good times!) Over the years, I lost interest, so now it's been a while since I watched Survivor, but I have watched a few episodes this season. Things seem... off.

The Applebee's promotion was grossly over the top. The contestants look really clean in the talking heads and at tribal council, as if they have showered and shaved and are wearing freshly laundered clothes. Why are the women all wearing lacy bras? The sets look like... sets, not like the action is taking place in the alleged location of the contest. The TC of this episode, in particular, seemed scripted. To me, it all feels fake, not at all like the original seasons. 

I'm sad for Survivor.

All of this.

For me, the removal of the opening title sequence where we're given the names of the tribes followed by each person's name and a picture or two is what's doing me in, I think.  At this point I know everyone's names but I struggle to remember what tribe they were on before the inevitable tribe swap, so I hate to admit it but a lot of the strategy talk is lost on me.  Last night's tribal council was a case in point - I'm reading these threads and listening to RHAP to figure out what the heck actually went down but sadly, part of me doesn't care because I think the show is getting a bit meta and it's really been awhile since I've actively rooted for someone to win this game.  I don't like feeling "meh" about my favorite show of all time.

I've also been rewatching old seasons on All Access and that just makes me miss the old format even more.

Edited November 7, 2019 by laurakaye

[Ellee]

Any chance Jamal’s ‘dismissing Kelley from the fire making’ was more due to Jamal’s frustration AT JAMAL for not making a fire?

I’m lousy at reading people. 

[ohcomeon]

10 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

He made an enormous deal over Jack calling his buff a durag, but then called 4 grown women "girls".  

If you are going to hold others to stringent standards of word choice, you need to watch your own words.  

I really liked Jamal at first and I am so annoyed with him now. Someone needs to call out to Jamal his sexist microaggressions and I truly hope it is the "girls" in his classes at his all girls school. 

• Calling it a "girl's alliance" was sexist.
• Saying he knows women only know their power when they are in a group is also sexist. I have personal power when I'm the loan female is a meeting with 10 men. I don't need a tribe of women to empower me.  
• Every year in every competitive reality show there is at least one "alliance" that is all male. But they are not always called out as the "guys alliance". It's just assumed and accepted by society that men will bond together and "may" bring in the token female. And usually they are the first to go when the alliance needs to eat their own. 
• You've done nothing to make these very strong women feel empowered to speak up for themselves. He was shocked that anyone would dare challenge him and he's "beaming with pride" was just a f*cking cover up for sticking his foot in his mouth. He should have taken a lesson from Jake and apologized for his remarks.
• His showing his fear of the women grouping together just highlights how poorly he relates to women, therefore, he knows he'll never been in a tight alliance with a gender diverse group.

I don't blame Kellee for going off on him. But I don't think it had anything to do with the #MeToo movement. I wish Probst hadn't tried to jump in on that.

I thought Kellee's play was great and glad it worked out. I understand her wanting Jack out because of how easily he makes friends and really had no "natural" enemies in either of the tribes. I think she recognized that Jamal will keep annoying people and it will be easier to convince a large group to vote him out over the effort it took to only need to get 2 people to write down Jack's name.

[blackwing]

37 minutes ago, Special K said:

Jamal:  "I work at a girls' school so I know that girls when they get together have some magic juju that destroys us powerless men."   Next he'll want to burn the "girls'" alliance at the stake to, you know, save the poor men from their witchcraft.

And then later, "I'm beaming with pride that these girls are now able to speak their truth."

Ugh, I cannot even find the words to describe how furious he makes me. 

Yes, that was awful.  First he's really scared of all the "girls" banding together and voting out men for no other reason than the fact that they are "girls" who want to show their "girl power" in voting out a strong man like himself.  And then just a few minutes later he's so proud that speaking about his paranoia has made these "girls" blossom into the powerful people that they are. 

What on earth.... I don't think he's Angelina Keeley delusional but he truly does seem to have a high opinion of himself.  It was shown at the very start of the game when he didn't pack a bag to tribal because he was so confident that he was playing the game up here while others were "down there" and had to do more.  

He seems to be making and drinking his own Kool Aid.

24 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

While Jamal irritates me, and his dismissing Kellee from fire building and his condescending virtue signalling and calling the grown women in his tribe "girl" was kind of sexist, I don't think his concerns about a women's alliance were sexist at all.

In Survivor, people are always looking for any sort of reasonable or arbitrary reason to pull people together into an alliance.  Original tribe members is the most common one.  But, any sort of commonality can be used, and gender is as good as any.  If women, especially ones in the minority alliance or at the bottom of the majority alliance, can put together an alliance based upon gender, that makes sense for them, that is smart Survivor play.  It is not sexist to suspect women of being smart.  

I agree with you, I don't think it's sexist to suspect that there is a women's alliance.  I just think the way he presented it was so very strange.  "Girls are powerful only when they get together, they are otherwise useless on their own because they are meek and weak and not strong and smart like me.  But when they get together, they are trouble.  I'm so happy that my strength as a man has helped make these girls realise what they can do if they only believed in themselves."

As always, everything that comes out of Jamal's mouth is just so irritatingly condescending.

[Special K]

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

What on earth.... I don't think he's Angelina Keeley delusional but he truly does seem to have a high opinion of himself. 

[....]

As always, everything that comes out of Jamal's mouth is just so irritatingly condescending.

If you pay attention, he relates everything back onto himself and his own awesomeness.  The "metoo movement is now somehow something Jamal takes personal pride in?  Could my eyes roll back any farther?

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I want Janet to win simply because she's the oldest contestant out there, and didn't hesitant to flash her tribe on the way back from IOTI.  I did love how she apologized to the guy driving the boat. 

BFD, Jamal has been flashing his all season. :)