S39.E07: I Was Born at Night, But Not Last Night

[Whimsy]

Quote

An empire falls and a rebellion rises, but the game is far from over. Another castaway visits the Island of the Idols for a chance to earn an advantage.

Original airdate 11/6/19

[LadyChatts]

RIP Rudy!  91 years old and I still look at him as the 70-something lovable but cantankerous old guy who didn’t know what MTV was. 

[Rachel RSL]

Season of the blindsides continues! Although this was a sad one because I really liked Jack.

I completely forgot that Jamal had an idol and was even more surprised when he played it for Noura. Remind me again, what would have happened if Jamal had played his idol for Jack? Re-vote?

Everything about that TC was beautiful. This has to be one of the most mature, well-spoken casts they’ve ever had. It’s refreshing and I hope it continues.

[mojoween]

The women of Lairo can blat about Jamal apparently offensively dividing people by gender all they want, but it doesn’t change the fact that in this VERY SEASON, a women’s alliance has been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES.

However.  Jamal does have a condescending manner of speech that can be confounding and I can see why people can be put off by him.  I still like him though.

Their poker faces are outstanding damn.

Got damn I knew about Rudy and still the end card got me all sorts of choked up.  RIP good sir.

[Haleth]

I loved how Kellee reasoned out giving the idol to Dean but why did she then vote for him?

Also loved how Janet reasoned out that the advantage she could win on Idol Island would be a bad idea. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Haleth

[LadyChatts]

4 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Season of the blindsides continues! Although this was a sad one because I really liked Jack.

I completely forgot that Jamal had an idol and was even more surprised when he played it for Noura. Remind me again, what would have happened if Jamal had played his idol for Jack? Re-vote?

Everything about that TC was beautiful. This has to be one of the most mature, well-spoken casts they’ve ever had. It’s refreshing and I hope it continues.

Yes, they would have re-voted.  I was wondering where the second Jack vote came from, and it was Noura.  

Kellee took a huuuuuuuge risk tonight, and it still might end up biting her in the butt if Dean spills the beans.  Or what if Noura says she's the one that told her to vote Jack?  I hope this connection between them doesn’t dictate their game play going forward.  She is still one hell of an actress, however.  I totally bought her face at TC when Dean played her idol.

So the jury starts with Jack?  I’m sad to see him go.  I was really hoping it was going to be Jamal.  I remembered tonight why I didn’t like him. 

I agree with Sandra, it’s looking good for the women this season.  Still a long way to go.  But Janet for the win!

Edited November 7, 2019 by LadyChatts

[PaperTree]

BOOM!  Great blindside.   

Well played Kellee!

I liked Jack.  Collateral damage.

I would have preferred Jamal leaving.  His smug conviction that he's the smartest dude on the island has annoyed me from day one.  And he teaches at an all girls school?  Find another school, parents.  

Noura brings the crazy.  She's Abi Marie goat material.

I love Janet.

[Straycat80]

That was a very deep TC. I had forgotten Jamal had an idol. Too bad he wasted it on Noura. I liked Jack, don’t know why he was a threat. 

I’m surprised every single person has kept the secret about IOTI this far into the game. 

[vb68]

Well Kellee's game playing and reputation jumped up about 1000%.

That's the game playing I really enjoy- so creative and strategic- that you don't usually see outside of a Rob, Sandra, or say Parvati and Cirie. So well done. Still wish it was Jamal. Jack seems like a good kid.

Edited November 7, 2019 by vb68

[mythoughtis]

So Kallee  gives Dean her idol and then votes Dean.  Was she thinking he wasn’t going to play it or was she trying to hide her game play from the others?  
Jamal wastes an idol.   
That challenge was so close. 

[sadiegirl1999]

I loved how Janet made a calculated risk by NOT taking one! 

[LadyChatts]

I guess last week wasn’t as memorable as I thought it would be, because I totally forgot about Jason’s blindside.

Why was no one listening to Elaine when she said the puzzle wasn’t right?  That was lucky for Lauren, Tommy, and Dan. 

Missy’s still pretending she’s doing the whole girls thing?  And with the merge coming up in the near future, why does she automatically assume Lauren will still want to work with her when the tribes get together.  Especially if they blindside her again and get rid of Tommy.   

Is Janet the first person to not go along and take the challenge of the lesson?  I think Elizabeth and Noura are the only ones who didn’t succeed in their mission.  I liked how Janet was actually thinking this through and what’s best for her game, rather than just being star struck and letting that take over. 

I didn’t need a flashback to last season and the winner who was the third person blindsided and voted out. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Rachel RSL said:

I completely forgot that Jamal had an idol and was even more surprised when he played it for Noura. Remind me again, what would have happened if Jamal had played his idol for Jack? Re-vote?

Yup and everyone but Jack and Dean would get to vote. 

I understand the rationale of Jamal playing his idol for Noura because I can see why he assumed, when Dean played an idol and as he believed they all voted for Dean, the lone vote from Dean would likely be for Noura. Because it seemed like Noura and Dean were not exactly the friendliest.  

That said, I was on the phone during the scrambling before tribal council so I missed the discussion about Jack, if there was one. Can anyone summarize what the thinking was behind that vote because I don't really get it. Jack to me seemed a solid, strong and loyal person to have moving forward in a merge. 

I can't believe people are keeping Karishma's dead weight self around. Sure she's no threat in individual challenges and she supposedly has no loyalty to her old tribe but I also don't believe she has any loyalty to anyone. Karishma will make it to the end playing the "anyone but me" game where she'll happily vote any and all out, as long as it's not her. Which I guess great for her but not exactly a truly solid and loyal number for anyone because I don't buy she's loyal to anyone. 

Interesting that Jack is a member of the jury when they haven't merged yet. I assume it means they're probably merging next week but surprised that they still put him on the jury. Does that mean there'll be an 11 member jury? Or are there less players than normal, pre-merge?

[Lady Calypso]

Well, bye Jack. Your buddy Jamal could have saved you but he decided to....play his Idol...on Noura? What? 

I guess it was Jamal's way of getting Noura on his side, but did he think that Noura was actually going? Or did he take a risk and hope that he wasn't going to be voted out after Dean played HIS Idol so he hoped that him playing his Idol on Noura would get her to trust him? Actually, I don't really get why Jamal would do that. Wasn't Jamal's Idol good for a while? 

I like Jamal, but he DOES have a condescending tone when he speaks to people. In particular, during Tribal Council, when he was praising the women and talking about "beaming with pride" because it's a subject he's interested in...I dunno, it rubbed me the wrong way. 

Kellee is definitely my favourite. I'm glad she saved Dean, because we finally had an Idol played, and I'm glad she got Jack out. I mean, she took a risk, but it's paying off at the moment. It all relies on Dean keeping his mouth shut, though.

Janet went to IOTI and didn't play Rob and Sandra's game. Which actually endeared me to Janet for a moment. And I actually ended up liking Janet more by the end of the episode than I did at the beginning.

[PaperTree]

2 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I loved how Kellee reasoned out giving the idol to Dean but why did she then vote for him?

Also loved how Janet reasoned out that the advantage she could win would be a bad idea. 

She was covering her ass when the inevitable finger pointing of who voted for who happens.

That whole IOI with Janet was excellent.  The only one - so far - to actually listen to the lesson, weigh the options deliberately, and make an informed decision.  

[truthaboutluv]

6 minutes ago, mojoween said:

The women of Lairo can blat about Jamal apparently offensively dividing people by gender all they want, but it doesn’t change the fact that in this VERY SEASON, a women’s alliance has been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES.

What was especially hilarious is that not only did Jamal accurately nail their discussing a potential alliance and coming after him, he pin pointed exactly that it was probably Noura's idea.  When Kellee ranted on about the sexism of his assumption, all I could think was, the two aren't mutually exclusive and while Jamal may indeed have some sexist tendencies, he also was simply smart enough to predict that this is exactly something Noura would throw out there. 

[Machiabelly]

That was a cool play. Voting for the guy you gave the idol to. She can honestly say who she voted for.

[Eolivet]

Can somebody explain to me like I'm stupid what on earth calling out the total double standard of being afraid of a women's alliance (vs a guy's alliance) -- an amazing and well-articulated point -- has to do with the #metoo movement? That felt inorganic and trying way, way too hard to "have a moment."

And because they had to take an extra 20 minutes for this labored tribal council, we got absolutely no context for why Dean and Noura (?) cast the only deciding votes for who went home?

Last week didn't detract from the episode, where I felt this week's did. And it's not like it was unavoidable (like the very powerful tribal council with Zeke). But in their efforts to pat themselves on the back for calling out the irrational fear of women's alliances and ... I guess the fact that the #metoo movement exists, they need to remember their main job is to put on an entertaining television show.

[vb68]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, bye Jack. Your buddy Jamal could have saved you but he decided to....play his Idol...on Noura? What? 

I don't like Jamal, but can't blame him there. There was no reason for him to suspect Jack was in danger.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't understand the voting at all. 

[LadyChatts]

Jamal had told Dean they were voting Noura, when in reality everyone was supposed to be voting Dean, so I understand why he wanted to save Noura.  Honestly, though, let's pretend Dean did vote for Noura-then they would re-vote, and everyone would be vulnerable except for Noura and Dean.  And Jamal would have no protection.  Seemed like a big risk and possibly stupid move on his part.  But maybe he did earn good will on Noura's part.

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That said, I was on the phone during the scrambling before tribal council so I missed the discussion about Jack, if there was one. Can anyone summarize what the thinking was behind that vote because I don't really get it. Jack to me seemed a solid, strong and loyal person to have moving forward in a merge. 

I think those were the reasons Kellee had for voting out Jack.  Knowing the merge is around the corner, he seemed like a threat that would go the distance.

Edited November 7, 2019 by LadyChatts

[zscore]

4 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yup and everyone but Jack and Dean would get to vote. 

Everyone would still get to vote, but they cannot vote for Jack or Dean.

[LanceM]

1 minute ago, Eolivet said:

Can somebody explain to me like I'm stupid what on earth calling out the total double standard of being afraid of a women's alliance (vs a guy's alliance) -- an amazing and well-articulated point -- has to do with the #metoo movement? That felt inorganic and trying way, way too hard to "have a moment."

And because they had to take an extra 20 minutes for this labored tribal council, we got absolutely no context for why Dean and Noura (?) cast the only deciding votes for who went home?

Last week didn't detract from the episode, where I felt this week's did. And it's not like it was unavoidable (like the very powerful tribal council with Zeke). But in their efforts to pat themselves on the back for calling out the irrational fear of women's alliances and ... I guess the fact that the #metoo movement exists, they need to remember their main job is to put on an entertaining television show.

Yes we did. Kellee told Dean that everyone was voting for him (which was true) and Dean obviously can't vote for himself. She also said in confessional that just in case Dean piulls a fast one and votes for her she was going to get Noura to switch her vote from Dean to someone else.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, LadyChatts said:

I think those were the reasons Kellee had for voting out Jack.  Knowing the merge is around the corner, he seemed like a threat that would go the distance.

Thanks. So the rationale was he's strong, so a potential threat in individual challenges and what then? Because I don't see how the loyal factor would be a negative, considering how important numbers are after the merge, especially with such a close numbers game of the original tribe members.

So instead she figures it's best to move forward with Dean who is kind of a wildcard but I guess he may be more loyal to her, especially after her giving him the idol and again Karishma, really? Because who else do they now have of their original, should they merge next week - Lauren, Tommy, Jamal, Noura and Janet. 

[Machiabelly]

I am sure Jamal felt that if it went to a revote, he was in a majority alliance and they would just decide amongst themselves who would go. 99% of the time it was the right play. This was a 1% situation. 

[Haleth]

Kellee said Jack was a social threat, well liked and with a connection to everyone. 

I didn’t like Jamal’s beaming with pride comment. That was awfully patronizing. 

[Archery]

The “how dare you assume a girls’ alliance, that’s a double standard” outrage was stupid. I can think of several seasons where the bro alliance made a point of picking off the women one by one. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Archery

[LadyChatts]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

Thanks. So the rationale was he's strong, so a potential threat in individual challenges and what then? Because I don't see how the loyal factor would be a negative, considering how important numbers are after the merge, especially with such a close numbers game of the original tribe members.

So instead she figures it's best to move forward with Dean who is kind of a wildcard but I guess he may be more loyal to her, especially after her giving him the idol and again Karishma, really? Because who else do they now have of their original, should they merge next week - Lauren, Tommy, Jamal, Noura and Janet. 

I think her reasoning was that Jack was a nice guy, and loyal, and that in the long term that might make him a threat to both stick around and possibly win.  

Karishma is going to go wherever the numbers are.  She isn't going to stay loyal to NuLairo if they don't want her or the numbers aren't there.  

[truthaboutluv]

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

Kellee said Jack was a social threat, well liked and with a connection to everyone. 

How did he have a connection to everyone when he's never played with Aaron, Missy, etc.? I don't know, maybe there's a lot editing hid but this just seemed like one of those jumping five steps ahead votes.

And I'm not saying it's not important to think multiple steps ahead but I still don't buy that Jack would have been worse to Kellee's game moving forward in the merge. Again, especially with the numbers so tight and close. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[EllenB]

2 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I didn’t like Jamal’s beaming with pride comment. That was awfully patronizing. 

It might be a phrase he's used to automatically using in his work in a girls' school.  So possibly more age-inappropriate than patronizing.

[PaperTree]

4 minutes ago, Archery said:

The “how dare you assume a girls’ alliance, that’s a double standard” outrage was stupid. I can think of several seasons where the bro alliance made a point of picking off the women one by one. 

Jamal always seems to be "mansplaining", even when talking to other men.

[Ms Blue Jay]

32 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Everything about that TC was beautiful. This has to be one of the most mature, well-spoken casts they’ve ever had. It’s refreshing and I hope it continues.

Really?  I thought Kellee was completely talking shit because she was trying to make sure nobody thought she was saving Dean.  Noura was trying really hard to fuck up her plan by talking about how she "hates" Jamal.  Then Jamal attemps to save her.  hahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

I don't think Kellee really believes a man's fear of a woman's alliance is sexist.  I don't agree with her, but I also think she was lying through her teeth.

And I don't agree with Janet 1 iota.  Women don't need a man's permission or approval or "support" to be powerful.  Hahahahhahaa!  Fuck that!  The more women realize that, the more powerful they will become.  Oh, Janet.  Her comments were absolutely in the opposite of the spirit of what #MeToo intends, I think.

Damn, this episode would have been more dramatic for me if I could remember alliances.  I think it's Jack/Jamal/Noura/Kellee holding the majority?  And Dean, Karishma, and Janet were on the outs?  But I'm just basing this off of tribal. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Archery]

4 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Jamal always seems to be "mansplaining", even when talking to other men.

Doesn’t mean he was wrong in this case, though. (His “beaming with pride” comment did make me want to punch him, for sure.). 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Archery

[Machiabelly]

8 minutes ago, Archery said:

The “how dare you assume a girls’ alliance, that’s a double standard” outrage was stupid. I can think of several seasons where the bro alliance made a point of picking off the women one by one. 

I think the outrage, if you want to call it that, is that no one makes a big deal of an all male alliance. That it is only a "thing" if it happens to be all female 

[PaperTree]

1 minute ago, Archery said:

Doesn’t mean he was wrong in this case, though. (His “beaming with pride” comment did make me want yo punch him, for sure.). 

No, but being right in this game is no guarantee of getting what you want.  Perception among the other players is everything.

[Ms Blue Jay]

29 minutes ago, susannot said:

Also impressed with Kellee.  Her plan played out to perfection and saved the cute boy whose name I forget.  Next week merge.  

Dean.  Goddammit, when he smiles he looks like someone famous and I can't place it.  I'm starting to turn the corner into thinking he is hot now.

34 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I didn’t need a flashback to last season and the winner who was the third person blindsided and voted out. 

I……. enjoyed remembering how hot he was

Awwwwww.  I just saw Jack's enthusiasm for being on the jury.

WTF?  I'm in Canada and I didn't see anything about Rudy 😞

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Lantern7]

*sigh* Of course Probst would try to jam relevance down our throat. This is Survivor. You're not supposed to draw conclusions that long and that deep. It just felt like too much to take. And when I went to take a breath, I missed the tribute to Rudy. Thank goodness for DVRs.

In a situation like that, I wouldn't know if there would be a women's alliance, but it would be in my head. Sure, most alliances go beyond gender . .  . but if I'm in a potential minority in numbers, I'd be nervous. And I'd probably be hearing Cirie "Laughing Widow" Fields chuckling in my head.

How was Janet selected to go to IOTI? Random pick? Yeah, it raises my eyebrows that an older woman gets forced there after the same thing happened to the other older woman. Janet might have been smart not to play Rob's game (while Sandra does her nails on the side for all we know), but the advantage sounded gnarly. The ability to leave TC before a vote? I hearby dub that the Cartman Idol. As in: "Screw you guys, I'm goin' home!!!"

I got nothin' else. I'm thinking Rudy gets a slightly larger tribute at the Reunion.

[willco]

Tribal surprised me again ! I thought Jamal was going after Dean played he idol, so that obviously means I forget Jamal had one also !

I think Survivor is a little like playing craps. You can have strategy, but luck certainly plays a big part. Unless you assume everyone has an idol in Survivor, you have to take a chance when voting and something unlikely ( but possible like throwing 12's twice in a row in craps) can and often does happen to screw things up.

Or something like that 🙂

[tvgoddess]

My favorite part was the Rudy tribute, even though I had already heard. It made me tear up.

Anyway, some interesting parts but these people are all annoying me for some reason. Honestly, every single one of them seems smug in some way. Probably the only one who wasn't was the one who went home. At least he was pumped about being on the jury.

Way to get the title of the episode, Rob.

[Melina22]

Great episode. I was totally interested from the start to the extremely suspenseful TC. 

I loved seeing Kellee's actual moment of inspiration, and the unfolding of her plan, so I fully expected it to fizzle. So glad it didn't. 

I'm fascinated by how Noura is fitting in, in her crazy way. I love that we're not getting a season of pretty beach bodies, but a genuinely diverse group. They're finally growing on me. 

[LadyChatts]

12 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Dean.  Goddammit, when he smiles he looks like someone famous and I can't place it.  I'm starting to turn the corner into thinking he is hot now.

I……. enjoyed remembering how hot he was

Awwwwww.  I just saw Jack's enthusiasm for being on the jury.

WTF?  I'm in Canada and I didn't see anything about Rudy 😞

Hey, he was good looking.  I get he won fair and square based on the rules of his season, but that's a season I'd rather forget all together.  And he really shouldn't have won over people who actually managed to not be the third person voted out.  

It was just a small blurb at the end right after the vote, about Rudy.  I was hoping for something more.  

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Anyway, some interesting parts but these people are all annoying me for some reason. Honestly, every single one of them seems smug in some way. Probably the only one who wasn't was the one who went home. At least he was pumped about being on the jury.

Way to get the title of the episode, Rob.

I hear ya.  I can't say I'm really actively rooting for anyone, but the list of people I wouldn't mind seeing voted out is getting longer.  And Noura isn't even near the top of it.  People just seem too cocky this season and full of big move-itis, as Chelsea put it.  I would love to see a Janet victory though!  

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the second time this season one of Rob or Sandra got the episode title.

[PaperTree]

3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

How was Janet selected to go to IOTI? Random pick? Yeah, it raises my eyebrows that an older woman gets forced there after the same thing happened to the other older woman.

Elaine made a "random" pick out of the bag after she was sent to IOI because her tribe decided to sit her out at the reward challenge and then TPTB say she drew Janet (whew). 

There is absolutely no proof that she actually pulled Janet's name.  But, I lean towards production not interfering because so many of these "twists" like this have fallen flat over the years, but there's really no way to tell what's "fixed" and what isn't.

[Kaiju Ballet]

Glad Kellee didn’t end up going home with the idol in her pocket, although she definitely has nerves of steel! The faces she made at Tribal were convincing, and I, too, forgot about Jamal’s idol. I was hoping that he would go home for sure. If nothing else, she’s now the player I'm rooting for.

I did feel a bit of glee watching Karishma’s face once Dean pulled out the idol, and the votes were read. So much for her smugness as she held up her vote!

I’m glad we had the focus on Janet, and there was no coercion from R & S. Really funny (and smart) for her to flash everyone to prove she didn’t have an idol.

And hahaha, everyone’s onto “Feely Dan”—kudos to the poster who coined that name! It was hysterical watching people bond over his squicky behavior. Glad it's not going unnoticed (and that we've gotten some followup to that early episode)

[Bryce Lynch]

59 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I loved how Kellee reasoned out giving the idol to Dean but why did she then vote for him?

Also loved how Janet reasoned out that the advantage she could win on Idol Island would be a bad idea. 

I am guessing she voted for Dean to take suspicion off of herself.  It was funny that Noura voted for Jack (and against Jamal) when he played his idol for her.  He should have played that idol for himself. 

If Kellee had been a little more emotional and decided to vote out the person she liked less, instead of the bigger threat, Jamal would have gone home with Noura holding his idol.

While I am glad Kellee's plan worked, I don't think the reward was worth the risk.  She should have played that idol on herself.  I am glad it didn't backfire on her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I forgot to say that Sandra's "Daaaaaaaaaaaaang they got his ass"  AGAIN had me rolling!

[tvgoddess]

14 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the second time this season one of Rob or Sandra got the episode title.

Yes, Sandra had the name for the first episode.

And yet again, more basketball. Can't they come up with anything else? Get creative, please.

[sadiegirl1999]

Anyone else squicked out that TC was all about the #metoo movement, yet Dan’s groping was highlighted and showcased? 
 

<shudder>

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Anyone else squicked out that TC was all about the #metoo movement, yet Dan’s groping was highlighted and showcased? 
 

<shudder>

YES!!!!!!!!!  I hate how everyone feels forced to put up with it.  I'd want to jump in that little boat with the man with the dark clothes to take me away !

[LadyChatts]

16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I am guessing she voted for Dean to take suspicion off of herself.  It was funny that Noura voted for Jack (and against Jamal) when he played his idol for her.  He should have played that idol for himself. 

If Kellee had been a little more emotional and decided to vote out the person she liked less, instead of the bigger threat, Jamal would have gone home with Noura holding his idol.

While I am glad Kellee's plan worked, I don't think the reward was worth the risk.  She should have played that idol on herself.  I am glad it didn't backfire on her.

This was her last TC to play the idol, so while she didn't need it, I get why maybe she would have been nervous playing on herself.  She also didn't want Dean to go because of that connection they have, but I do agree that this may backfire spectacularly in her face.  Noura I think said why didn't he play the idol on himself the last TC (good point, although he obviously thought the vote was going a different way).  Dean could easily tell everyone what went down, and Noura might even say Kellee was the one who told her to vote Jack in case Dean had an idol.  

[PaperTree]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

YES!!!!!!!!!  I hate how everyone feels forced to put up with it.  I'd want to jump in that little boat with the man with the dark clothes to take me away !

I hope the editors are setting Feely Dan up for a big crash and burn.