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S10.E02: We Are the End of the World


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Airdate 2019.10.13

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A flashback reveals the origins of Alpha and Beta as the Whisperers gather their herds.

Mod Note:  This thread is for discussion of the episode only.  If you didn't see it happen onscreen, discussion of it does not belong here and your post WILL be removed.  DO NOT DISCUSS CASTING NEWS, including reported cast comings and goings.   We have separate threads for discussing spoilers or the comics.  

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13 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

 I swear I'd rather watch Jadis taking Polaroids of Rick in his drawers.

Now THAT'S boring.

Is this part of Negan's redemption?  Are they trying to bore us so badly that we'll be relieved to spend an evening with Negan and his 'shitting pants'?

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12 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Are they trying to bore us so badly that we'll be relieved to spend an evening with Negan and his 'shitting pants'?

Bingo! You got it! I never thought anything could make me think, "Give us Negan! Please!" I thought wrong. I'd actually rather see Negan (a character I detest so much that just thinking of him gives me hives) and watch HIS backstory. Not so dumb, those PTB.

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29 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

For the very first time I had to turn this off. I do not care in the least about this ridiculous, boring "pack" and I never want to see them again. Thanks, show! Yer doin' it right. 😒 I swear I'd rather watch Jadis taking Polaroids of Rick in his drawers.

I totally agree.  Why on Earth do the idiot show runners think anyone cares about the origin of the hideous, ridiculous and boring Whisperers?   A total.waste of an hour.

Someone stick something sharp through the head of this awful show.

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*Sigh* Last week was actually a pretty good episode, so of course we had to have something mostly boring without the characters we actually might want to see and with the extras off the set of Thriller the next week! I guess they are saying that the Whispers are basically insane and obsessed with death and being dead in a "the dead are the true survivors" kind of way, which is a decent idea for villains, but not for a whole episode. I mean, the reason the Whispers are creepy is because they're weird and quiet and mysterious, and when we hang out with them just chilling in the woods wearing rotting flesh for no reason, they become a LOT less scary. 

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1 hour ago, BellyLaughter said:

All this episode did for me was confirm my belief that the concept of The Whisperers is horseshit....

Summed up the whole thing perfectly in one single sentence!  

We get it - there's a group run by a psychopath (again) who hates our main group of "heroes" (again) and threatens their way of life (again) and that group and our "hero" group will be going to war (again).   But........oh, hey, twist, this psychopath isn't an in your face dictator with a secret walker head tank wall or a big bad bat.   This group will sneak up on you and then get you so it's much more suspenseful for we the viewers which means we should then be incredibly interested in watching said group, how they formed and how their leaders work.  Except outside of the comics that run at a different pace it's a mistake to (again) have episode after episode of character development for these people.  Our ability to care about them is limited, we know in the long run the end is going to be: Good guys win Whisperers are walker feed.  So the only suspense is when they deviate the deaths from the comics and who in Alexandria, Hilltop etc might also be killed along the way.  But (no spoilers here) there's already soooo much to get through just following the basic comics story line for the Whisperers, stretching it out into full episodes like this to tell the viewers what comes down to Alpha met Beta, Alpha trained Lydia, Alpha lied about Lydia being alive pretty much guarantees only that I also played a logic game while watching.

I will give them full points on that first death though - lady in car - they went all out on that one especially with the face eating part.

Going to bitch about one more thing - somebody needs to look at the CGI budget or change how they do things.  The deer last week was really bad but the long shot of Alpha standing on those rocks and Carol on the cliff above wasn't much better especially the scale of people size to landscape size.  Maybe the sfx budget goes more to things like the walker kills but these recent computer generated effects have been pretty bad.

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9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If Alpha had made the noise, I would have assumed that Alpha was being orally gratified.   It would be just like Alpha to have forcible sex with the herd.

From what I know this is actually what the Whisperers do. Rape is rampant among them because they are operating more like animals than humans.

The Whisperers would be so much more compelling if they were kept a mystery. If we had to watch our group encounter a group of walkers and constantly wonder if a Whisperer is among them. You could do that with music for example. Have a Whisperer theme and play that every time the guys come across walkers.

The more they have them talking and show us them and their backstory and what not, the more boring they become. 'Oh hey look, it's the soulmates of the Wolves.' Just cray cray people who make no sense. Boooorrrriiinnnggggg.

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There were two things about this episode that were supposed to be obvious, but I wouldn't have known if I hadn't watched Talking Dead:

1)  I didn't know that walker was supposed to be Beta's best friend.  I thought it was most likely his son, or possibly a favorite therapist.  I guess it was a fellow patient?

2)  I didn't know which sister was which when it came to which one became Gamma, and which one was killed.  It was confusing because they wear masks so much, and the few times we saw their faces it was dark.  I thought maybe Gamma was the "weaker" sister because Beta accused Alpha of trying to replace Lydia with Gamma - and Alpha had cuddled with the weaker sister in The Deeper Place.  That seemed kind of like a mother/daughter moment for both.

The only other thing I will say is some of the dialogue in this one was horrible.  Specifically where the Whisperers are talking about their philosophies:  "We walk in darkness, we are free.  We bathe in blood, we are free.  We love nothing, we are free.  We fear nothing, we are free.  We need no words, we are free.  We embrace all death, we are free.  This is the end of the world.  Now is the end of the world.  We are the end of the world."  Cringe worthy.

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10 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Can I just get a look at my sweet Opie without whoever's face is on him that we don't give a crap about?

I’ll just be hoping for yall’s sakes Beta’s last words aren’t “I got this.”

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Oh how the mighty have fallen.  Less than 20 replies the morning after...…..yikes.

So, why exactly are we supposed to be afraid of the whisperers?  they are a group of people that stumble around with walkers all day and live in the woods.  They have no camp/town to live in.  What do they eat?  How do they eat without being run over by walkers?  And who can walk around with DEAD FLESH on their face all day?  Why does the big guy wear his face always?  Is there something wrong with it.

And our band of heroes kicked Negan ass, destroyed the Governor and Carol single handedly took out the cannibals.  Yet this small band of nomads have them frozen in fear?  WTH?  

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9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The writers had plenty of time to tell the complete story in this episode without having the viewers look for clarification from another source. Why they continue to fail to be totally upfront about everything that is going on within this episode and others, I don't know. 

Maybe I'm just dimwitted, and the other viewers knew what was going on.  Or maybe they want to leave certain holes in the story to encourage people to tune into Talking Dead.  But this does seem to be a recurring phenomenon, where certain details are filled in on the latter show.

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Isn't he wearing his son's face?  He peeled the face off of the dude with the smiley face t-shirt.

It wasn't his son, it was his best friend.  That's what they said on Talking Dead.  How we were supposed to know this otherwise, I'm not sure.

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33 minutes ago, gaPeach said:

What do they eat?  How do they eat without being run over by walkers?  And who can walk around with DEAD FLESH on their face all day?  Why does the big guy wear his face always? 

These are questions no one would ask when reading a comic book which is precisely why certain things should not be included in live action with real, ordinary human beings.

34 minutes ago, gaPeach said:

And our band of heroes kicked Negan ass, destroyed the Governor and Carol single handedly took out the cannibals.  Yet this small band of nomads have them frozen in fear?  WTH?

That's the question I've been asking since Elpha appeared at the gates, squawking, "Ah want mah DOTTER" and everyone stood there,, mouths agape and numb with terror. Why? A rag-tag band of scavengers living at primitive subsistence level (and yeah, what the hell ARE they eating? None of them look as though they've gone hungry) has our gang puttin' on their pissin' pants.

4 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Going to bitch about one more thing - somebody needs to look at the CGI budget or change how they do things. 

I think TPTB must have blown their entire CGI budget for the whole run of the show on the tiger, which was spectacular, so for anything else like the junkyard vista and the deer they had to go to the CGI bargain basement.

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As soon as this show started pushing plot ahead of characters the quality went way down. Angela Kang confirmed last week that the writers sit around and say "what can we do that they haven't seen before?" Ugh. When they plotted around when Negan would arrive, the characters started doing things to advance the plot and were out of character for them. 

Anyway... I want to know why this band of nomads, who wander with the dead and don't care about anything now have turf. That makes no sense. They should have just wandered off by now, no worries. 

Also, how did their masks go from being these things they were sewn into so they were blending into a walker herd to the Scooby Doo masks that they pull off every five minutes? 

Again this week The Talking Dead had to clarify plot points, just like last week. Ridiculous.

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Generally, the monster lurking in the dark waiting to pounce is scarier than the monster out in the light getting a suntan. The more the show digs into the “mystery “ of the Whisperers the less creepier they seem.  Not to mention how an ep like this, that tries to explain more about them, does nothing to make them more interesting. 

Bored, now. 

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15 minutes ago, Iguana said:

Not to mention how an ep like this, that tries to explain more about them, does nothing to make them more interesting. 

It's difficult enough to try and watch scenes in which I'm interested that are filmed in total darkness. When we reached the point where Alpha was (crushing that girls's skull with her bare hands? Gouging her eyes out? Puncturing her eardrums? Doing a dental extraction?) in complete darkness, the moment of "Oh, fuck this garbage!" hit me and I was out.

11 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

After all, no civilization in history has ever survived without glass windows, right?

Losing windows certainly seemed to spell the beginning of the end for Negan, after Ricky &Co. shot them all out. Thank goodness our guys had endless reserves of bullets to waste when Plot required that.

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Angela Kang confirmed last week that the writers sit around and say "what can we do that they haven't seen before?"

Like we didn't already know that.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

That's the question I've been asking since Elpha appeared at the gates, squawking, "Ah want mah DOTTER" and everyone stood there,, mouths agape and numb with terror. Why?

The Whisperers control mass herds of the dead, that's their main weapon and the reason they're feared.  You might argue that the "heroes" have dealt with too many walkers to be afraid of them.  But if you can't buy into the idea that the walkers are scary, the show's over.  Which is one reason the comic book is probably smarter with Kirkman's decision to bring the story to a close, as opposed to adding multiple spinoffs that just dilute things.

40 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I missed that part in your original post.  I apologize, I have to slow down and stop trying to read so quickly.

No need to apologize, no one can read and retain every line from every post.  I woud question the priorities of someone who could.  Blame the show for not making it clear.

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Also, how did their masks go from being these things they were sewn into so they were blending into a walker herd to the Scooby Doo masks that they pull off every five minutes? 

Go to show the actors faces, lol.  Same reason the superheroes are taking their masks off all the time in the movies, even though they have secret identities.  Alpha appears to go around without her mask 90% of the time

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2 hours ago, gaPeach said:

And our band of heroes kicked Negan ass, destroyed the Governor and Carol single handedly took out the cannibals.  Yet this small band of nomads have them frozen in fear?  WTH?

That's why I said they went completely wrong with the Whisperers. It was the show's chance to do something different for a change. Zombies are not scary anymore (unless it's a mega-heard), not even to the characters in the show. We've had a multitude of human baddies for Seasons now. The Whisperers provided the perfect opportunity for them to 1) make Zombies scary again and 2) do psychological horror.

That's why I mentioned the music. If both the characters and the audience were forced to wonder with even a small group of walkers if there was a Whisperer hidden in it, everyone would develop paranoia. The music would be for the audience, they hear it and think 'oh no that's what they play when Whisperers are around'. Doesn't mean there is one there but that's IMO how you make the audience as paranoid as the characters.

And you don't personalize the Whisperers as they have done so far. Alpha and our crew should have had one encounter only, when she lays out where the territory begins/ends. And that same conversation should have involved her asking about her daughter and the heads on spikes. The only info we got of them should have come from Lydia who tells their horrific rules and way of life. They skin people, they chop them up (for heads on spike), they abuse and rape.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

If the protagonists hadn't become civilized, they would have killed off the Whisperers' long ago, or at least died while trying.

Or if they were allowed to be in character. It seems like Carol/Alpha will be the new Rick/Negan which is just stupid. Carol would have absolutely tried to kill Alpha at the end of 10x01. Alpha didn't even see Carol at first and Carol had her bow and arrow on her. Stupidly staring at the enemy and not doing anything is not Carol's style.

Edited by Smad
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2 hours ago, gaPeach said:

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  Less than 20 replies the morning after...…..yikes.

So, why exactly are we supposed to be afraid of the whisperers?  they are a group of people that stumble around with walkers all day and live in the woods.  They have no camp/town to live in.  What do they eat?  How do they eat without being run over by walkers?  And who can walk around with DEAD FLESH on their face all day?  Why does the big guy wear his face always?  Is there something wrong with it.

And our band of heroes kicked Negan ass, destroyed the Governor and Carol single handedly took out the cannibals.  Yet this small band of nomads have them frozen in fear?  WTH?  

This, all of this! Also, why does Alpha look like she's dead even when she's not wearing a skin mask? Like I know she's not terribly concerned about self-care but there is literally mold growing on her face. 

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I can't get past this new concept that wearing zombie skin fools the Walkers into thinking you're one of them. The show has already explored the idea of covering oneself with fresh zombie blood and guts for the same purpose, and that only works for a very short time. How old and dried out are those skins the Whisperers are wearing and why on earth would they fool any Walker?

Further, we're apparently expected to believe that since they "whisper" the Walkers don't notice/attack them. Yet in this very episode several of them were speaking out loud. Quietly, sure, but not whispering. And yet the Walkers still ignored them. Until that one girl started bawling.

And how long does dead, rotting flesh last anyway? Apparently Beta has had that same mask for what . . . years? It's human skin. Even my skin sheds and regenerates, and I'm not even dead. Does Walker skin go into permanent stasis somehow? Maybe that explains why Walkers haven't simply disintegrated from decay by now.

Finally, who on earth would sign up for this gig? They just wander around aimlessly all day in Walker herds? Until what, dark? Dinner time? I get it, Alpha and Beta are scary, and I guess maybe they force most of the people to go along with them. But there's only two of them. And they're clearly not the brightest or sanest people in the world. I can think of no reason why the folks at Hilltop and Alexandria couldn't find their own way of herding the Walkers and using them against the Whisperers. It can't be that hard. Clearly.

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Apologies-but-the-space-bar-isn't-working,

The-episode-wasn't-as-bad-as-I-was-expecting,although-it-did-highlight-just-what-a-nonsense-the-whole-Whisperer-gimmick-is.

Admittedly-we've-got-two-Looney-Tunes-in-charge,but-how-can-any-of-the-followers-possibly-call-that-surviving?As-someone-just-mentioned,what-the-hell-do-they-eat?I-don't-see-how-Alpha-can-maintain-that-belly-roll-living-on-berries-and-worms,they-don't-appear-to-grow-anything,they-don't-appear-to-have-any-weapons-to-kill-any-animals,even-if-there-were-any-to-kill

Do-they-have-any-possssions?Coats-to-keep-warm,anything-to-keep-the-rain-off?Hair-or-tooth-brushes?Or-is-there-an-as-yet-unseen-baggage-train-nearby?

How-do-they-keep-the-acquired-herd-in-one-place-while-they-sleep-for-the-night?And-prevent-the-herd-from-attacking-them-while-they're-chilling-out-and-enjoying-their-worms.

I-cannot-believe-this-pathetic-bunch-is-posing-the-slightest-threat-to-the-experienced-members-of-the-communities,they-went-to-war-against-a-fit-strong-well-armed-Saviour-force,yet-they're-cowering-behind-walls-from-basically-unarmed,half-starved-wimps-who-can't-even-stand-up-to-little-old-baldy.

Every-time-I-see-Alpha-I-think-of-Pig-Pen-from-Peanuts,

tenor.gif

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4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If Alpha had made the noise, I would have assumed that Alpha was being orally gratified.   I

Seems-like-an-opportune-moment-to-wonder-just-how-rank-these-people-must-be-smelling-by-now.🤮

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13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And how long does dead, rotting flesh last anyway? Apparently Beta has had that same mask for what . . . years? It's human skin. Even my skin sheds and regenerates, and I'm not even dead. Does Walker skin go into permanent stasis somehow? Maybe that explains why Walkers haven't simply disintegrated from decay by now.

I suspect they got gads of formaldehyde stashed away somewhere. I mean, who else would have a need for such a thing?

Why did that girl whisperer go from getting her brain almost squished to being fixed to then losing her shit again? Made no sense.

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22 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Why did that girl whisperer go from getting her brain almost squished to being fixed to then losing her shit again? Made no sense.

I-can't-imagine-any-mother-coerced-into-leaving-her-child-on-the-ground-to-be-eaten-by-Walkers-to-be-in-the-best-mental-state,it-was-the-Walker-with-the-baby-carrying-device-that-tipped-her-over-the-edge,her-reaction-seemed-plausible-to-me,as-plausible-as-the-show-can-ever-hope-to-be.

Edited by OoohMaggie
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1 hour ago, Smad said:

We've had a multitude of human baddies for Seasons now. The Whisperers provided the perfect opportunity for them to 1) make Zombies scary again and 2) do psychological horror.

The-only-time-the-Whisperers-have-been-scary,is-when-they-were-used-at-the-the-perfect-time,the-perfect-storm-so-to-speak,and-that-was-in-the-fog-at-the-cemetery.

It-was-one-of-the-best-scenes-ever-on-the-show,it-really-was,but-put-the-same-Whisperers-in-broad-daylight-and-the-fear-and-terror-just-evaporates,the-experienced-members-of-the-communities-should-be-able-to-pick-out-these-skin-wearing-freaks-quite-easily.

Edited by OoohMaggie
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I apologize for not remembering everything from the past season, but did we ever see Alpha tell Beta that Lydia was dead? I remember Alpha disowning her daughter, but was her story that Lydia was killed in the slaughter at the fair?

And what kind of crazy bird's nest was that anyway that Lydia was supposed to live in when she returned?

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14 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

So, how often does Alpha need to shave her head? I guess she has a large stash of razors that she shleps everywhere she goes?

Maybe she found T-Dog's old stash. Or Father Gabe's.

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On S10 E2 walkers walked up steps (like 4 of them) when alpha took lydia into the building in the flashback. This seems like an error. I havent seen walkers walk up steps before (that I can remember). Any thoughts?

Edited by sh4r0nk1tch3nz
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7 minutes ago, sh4r0nk1tch3nz said:

I havent seen walkers walk up steps before (that I can remember). Any thoughts?

In the first season or two we saw them walk up stairs - they had to walk up many stairs to try and reach Merle chained on the roof -  and even use weapons (rocks) to try to break windows. IIRC, that didn't last long as it would make it to difficult for people to escape them.

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Quote

I suspect they got gads of formaldehyde stashed away somewhere. I mean, who else would have a need for such a thing?

But wouldn't that destroy the natural smell of the Walker skin? Isn't that what's "fooling" the Walkers into thinking the Whisperers are one of them? Or are we now being told just looking like a Walker can fool them into ignoring you? 

I know it's fruitless to point out how dumb this whole thing is but I can't help it. If this "pack" truly believes Walkers are the new way and want to emulate them, why not just get bit and become a Walker? They're not accomplishing anything pretending to be Walkers, and they still have to eat.

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8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But wouldn't that destroy the natural smell of the Walker skin? Isn't that what's "fooling" the Walkers into thinking the Whisperers are one of them? Or are we now being told just looking like a Walker can fool them into ignoring you? 

I know it's fruitless to point out how dumb this whole thing is but I can't help it. If this "pack" truly believes Walkers are the new way and want to emulate them, why not just get bit and become a Walker? They're not accomplishing anything pretending to be Walkers, and they still have to eat.


It would, but they also wouldn’t smell like people. They’d smell like formaldehyde. The whisperers don’t make sense. They have a mask but that wouldn’t cover the smell from what looks like clothes and skin that aren’t covered in walker blood. Do they roll around in soot to get their grey look and not smell like people?
 

I think the whisperers don’t touch on the sense of smell, which never made sense because human’s have a weak sense of smell. They’re all about looking like a walker and not making enough noise to draw their attention. Weirdly in season 1, they made themselves smell and sound like walkers to avoid detection. Maybe 2 out of 3 does the trick? Er, 1.5 out of 3?

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think she has the strength to crush someone's skull. 

Of course not, but she was easily able to cut someone's head clean off with that flexible saw thing she had. I guess it helped that the victim just stood there and allowed it, but I doubt anyone would have the strength required to do that to a living person, nevermind some dumpy little lady.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

there is very little left of a violent nature that would shock anyone.

This is true, but if they really want to shock fans in a way they'll never forget, leave the graphic violence behind and let someone say the "F" word. That would leave viewers reeling and traumatized.

4 hours ago, rmontro said:

The Whisperers control mass herds of the dead, that's their main weapon and the reason they're feared.

That's part of what makes them so silly, IMHO. How do they "control mass herds"? By putting zombie skin on their faces, while still leaving their obviously warm and living bodies uncovered? Rotted flesh that without treatment would fall apart and could not be pulled on and off like thick rubber masks? Fine for cartoons and comics, I guess, since I don't read comic books. I won't bother questioning how there can still be intact, mass herds of highly mobile and still-clothed zombies this long post-ZA because I could manage suspension of disbelief over that and many other things if only this ep hadn't been so damned boring. Villains - like Negan - should never be boring.

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They probably tan the skins that they keep using salt or (more likely based on the Whisperers actions) urine.   They did find that camp with a skin stretched out over some branches.    Or maybe the writers didn't put that much research into it.  

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Worst episode in the entire 10 year history! I left it playing and started housework because I got that bored. I do not care one jot about the origin of Alpha. I can’t bear the character or the actress, so for her to be given an entire episode to use that ridiculous faux southern drawl in was my idea of tv hell 

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