S04.E01: A Girl from Arizona

[possibilities]

I definitely thought Janet was out of character, being irritated by being asked to do things, and generally getting grouchy.

[katalizt]

19 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I thought that was odd, also. Even in the very first episode, she was creating/maintaining the place with seemingly no effort. You'd think after so many reboots and upgrades, she'd be so powerful that this would be nothing. Does her increasing human abilities like humor, sarcasm, and love come with increasing human challenges like fatigue and struggle?

She didn't create the original Good Place or the people in it like she did with this one. 

9 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

IIRC, creating Derek was a pretty big thing, and now in tandem with him she's created what, hundreds or thousands of new beings of an unprecedented sort? That might involve the sort of strain that she can't quickly recover from.

It's also possible that the metaphysics of The Middle Place don't allow for the kind of effortless multitasking and virtual omnipotence that Janet was accustomed to in her corner of The Bad Place. She used to be powerless there except for the ability to summon the train, right?

I had forgotten about Janet's powerlessness in the Medium Place. Maybe they lifted that restriction for the experiment?

[iMonrey]

Quote

IRC, creating Derek was a pretty big thing, and now in tandem with him she's created what, hundreds or thousands of new beings of an unprecedented sort?

She only needed to create 125 "people" for the new neighborhood. (Just rewatched the last 2 episodes of last season.)

[Charlesman]

18 hours ago, SammyBeBop said:

I have a sneaking suspicion something hinky happened with Janet on the train at the end. Like, maybe they swapped her with a new, unevolved Janet.

I thought so too at first, especially in the way she walked back into the shot after leaving the train, until I realized it was so awkward because it was the Janet body double, as D'Arcy Carden was busy being Bad Janet in the foreground 🙂

[Enginerd]

1 hour ago, katalizt said:

She didn't create the original Good Place or the people in it like she did with this one. 

Oh; hmm. I missed that. I thought that Michael had designed it, but Janet created it. Although of course the people then were demon actors, so she didn't have to create them.

[ally862]

For some reason I think Glen might pl kay a key role in the end.  I'm wondering if he'll turn against the demons because he's sick of being made fun of.  

[BobH]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

She only needed to create 125 "people" for the new neighborhood. (Just rewatched the last 2 episodes of last season.)

It’s 322 people in the neighbourhood, so she and Derek would have created 314 (taking out the original four and the four new subjects).

[clack]

John and Brent are charmless and unimaginative creations. I expect better from this show. 

The original four were freshly conceived, quirky, fun. There's nothing fresh about John : a bitchy gossip blogger? Not exactly an original conception.

And Brent? Another cliche, distanced from the scriptwriters actual experience of  "toxic masculinity".

Plenty of Hollywood examples of Metooed men, men with all the proper, approved political views.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

IIRC, creating Derek was a pretty big thing, and now in tandem with him she's created what, hundreds or thousands of new beings of an unprecedented sort? That might involve the sort of strain that she can't quickly recover from.

Listening to the podcast, DC pretty much says that Janet is suffering from some form of post-partum, if not depression, then like Bruinsfan said, being tired from having birthed so many babies (more than 300). 

[thuganomics85]

Only had a chance to check this out now, since I'm now working Thursday.  I have no evidence, but I'm blaming that demon bastard Shawn for this development!

Glad that the show is back, but I definitely got the sense that TPTB had been under the assumption that they were going to air two episodes for its premiere like in the past, so this did feel like it was mainly all set-up and a bit incomplete on some levels.  Still enjoyable and plenty of laugh out-loud moments, but the ending just lacked the punch that most episodes have.  But I'm sure they're setting up some big ones in future episodes!

I like the approach with Simone about how she thinks she is actually in a coma/dying and this all a hallucination, so she's just dicking around and not taking it seriously, which makes it harder for the team to find a way to have her "improve" herself.

The non-Simone subjects are kind of one-note and cliched, so I have a feeling this idea isn't going to be lasting for too long and, in typical Good Place fashion, everything will be flipped upside its head sooner rather than later.

Jason "killing" Derek made me laugh way harder then I care to admit.

Mindy St. Claire!  Bad Janet!!  Speaking of which, I really want to see Disco Janet.

I do hope Chidi gets work back in with the rest of the cast soon.

I probably say it way too many times thanks to this and Brooklyn Nine-Nine, but Marc Evan Jackson is the best.  The king of deadpan, of course, but Shawn's legitimately horrified look when The Judge threaten to make him watching videos of soldiers reuniting with their loved one videos was the greatest thing ever.  

[The Companion]

If Disco Janet and Mindy don't snort lines of coke this season, I am going to be so disappointed. 

[Amarsir]

12 hours ago, clack said:

John and Brent are charmless and unimaginative creations. I expect better from this show. 

Well do bear in mind that the original characters were leads. They needed to have depth that could be explored over 1 (or 4) seasons. These two are just antagonists and I wouldn't expect them to have any more depth than Kamilah or Donkey Doug.

[clack]

23 minutes ago, Amarsir said:

Well do bear in mind that the original characters were leads. They needed to have depth that could be explored over 1 (or 4) seasons. These two are just antagonists and I wouldn't expect them to have any more depth than Kamilah or Donkey Doug.

Fair point.

I guess my disappointment lies in how stale and flat they are as antagonists. John and Brent seem to be conceived as people who would rub someone in the Hollywood bubble the wrong way -- as caricatures of people a scriptwriter might encounter only online. 

The blogger who writes mean gossip about the scriptwriter's friends. The dude who tweets about how much he hates the Captain Marvel movie. I don't know, John and Brent seem like such insular, niche targets.

[Harvey]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I definitely thought Janet was out of character, being irritated by being asked to do things, and generally getting grouchy.

I would say she was out of character, but not in a good way. They are just showing her evolution into being more like a normal person but thanks no thanks, we don't want to see it.

[Amarsir]

28 minutes ago, clack said:

I guess my disappointment lies in how stale and flat they are as antagonists. John and Brent seem to be conceived as people who would rub someone in the Hollywood bubble the wrong way -- as caricatures of people a scriptwriter might encounter only online. 

Oh, sure. There's a lot of "Writer's Hand" in this show. (That's when the character speaks in a way that reflects the views of the writer more than strictly how that character themself would act.) For example, there's nothing inherently evil about the Richard Marx song "Right Here Waiting". But a writer doesn't like it so it becomes a joke about being the "deeply horrible" song that Shawn listens to for inspiration. As a comedy, not only can they get away with it but it's part of the charm.

John and Brent are definitely closer to that side of the show. They're bad in the same way everyone from Jacksonville or France is bad - not realistically but as a vehicle for jokes and plot movement. So I'm willing to give them some leeway with it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, clack said:

Fair point.

I guess my disappointment lies in how stale and flat they are as antagonists. John and Brent seem to be conceived as people who would rub someone in the Hollywood bubble the wrong way -- as caricatures of people a scriptwriter might encounter only online. 

The blogger who writes mean gossip about the scriptwriter's friends. The dude who tweets about how much he hates the Captain Marvel movie. I don't know, John and Brent seem like such insular, niche targets.

At this point we’ve seen so little of them that it’s impossible to say where they are going with John and Brent. Tahani was just as one note in the first two episodes of season one before her backstory episode. 

If the show spends more than one or two episodes on the experiment we will probably see more of their background. 

[foxfreakinmulder]

I'm just happy it's back! I'm going to miss this little show with it's oh so clever writing when it's gone :-(

[kirinan]

14 hours ago, clack said:

John and Brent are charmless and unimaginative creations. I expect better from this show. 

The original four were freshly conceived, quirky, fun. There's nothing fresh about John : a bitchy gossip blogger? Not exactly an original conception.

And Brent? Another cliche, distanced from the scriptwriters actual experience of  "toxic masculinity".

Plenty of Hollywood examples of Metooed men, men with all the proper, approved political views.

I can't articulate why I feel this way yet, but I have a strong suspicion it's not this simple. I'll have to keep watching and see what unfolds.

I got to experience my heartiest, loudest laugh ever with the "Kars 4 Kids" song. I listen to MSNBC on Sirius XM in my car all through the 2.5 hours I'm in the car commuting to and from work each weekday. Every time that commercial comes on (which is way too often), I can't lunge for the mute button on my steering wheel fast enough. I've been doing it for at least the last two years, and I kind of figured that it was just a limited audience who heard it. Who knew?

[Mabinogia]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:28 AM, Enginerd said:

I should have known Linda was the hot shirtless demon in disguise as soon as she asked if there was a gym.

This is why I love this show so much. In retrospect, all the clues are there, they just don't seem like clues at the time. I just took that as a funny comment, but it was totally a clue that she was HSD! 

This ep definitely felt like half an ep so I can't wait to see the second half this week. Then I will have a better judge of how this season is going to go. 

I did love Simone just going all crazy because she is convinced none of it is real. I'm also just so glad she's there. I love the actress. 

I'm going to have to rewatch the ep because I was so happy the show was back that I'm sure I missed a million things. 

[hertolo]

Simone isn‘t there to torture Chidi, she‘s to test Eleanore. Can Eleanore agree to her being happy with Chidi? (And yes, Simone‘s reaction was golden)

But I do like the idea that the test isn‘t how it seems to be set up. Too many questions remain open: Like, what‘s the impulse for the new humans to try to get better? As pointed out, in the original, two of the candidates knew they weren‘t supposed to be in the good place. Or, the missing concept of the soulmates. That was necessary to give some sort of drive to the first season. Without it, meh...

That‘s why I‘m sure there‘s some big twist coming in the second half of the opener next week. As we are basically at the same place we were at the start of the episode, and that never happens with The Good Place. I can see some merit in the swap of Janet or Michael theory. Brent could have some role, he‘s played by a familiar actor. I don‘t know, we‘ll see. I still enjoy the show and I am glad that they chose to end the story and not drag out the concept. The ending is always very important (I‘m hoping for the books there).

And thank you for shirtless demon, what‘s his name again? I‘m just glad he‘s on screen.

[Lugal]

On 9/27/2019 at 2:19 PM, Blakeston said:

I would expect that Eleanor encountered a lot of guys like that in Arizona, and while they'd irritate her somewhat, she'd know exactly how to handle them, and she'd shrug off their BS.

First, not all of us in Arizona are like that (OK, maybe in Phoenix) but I see Eleanor (who generally doesn't suffer fools gladly) has a low tolerance for assholes when their assholery is directed at her (if it's directed at someone else, she doesn't care)

On 9/27/2019 at 2:24 PM, possibilities said:

I definitely thought Janet was out of character, being irritated by being asked to do things, and generally getting grouchy.

I didn't think so.  She said she has to keep constantly monitoring the neighborhood so it doesn't collapse (which she didn't have to do before), and then she has to make a major change, like adding a popcorn river.  On top of that, she has Derek and Jason's drama and then to top it off she has Brent demanding little shit every few minutes from her, like those people you meet who want you to do every damn thing for them as opposed to getting off their asses and doing it themselves.  Throw in the fact that if she screws it all up her friends are tortured forever and she's a marble, I can see why she's grouchy.

[Virtual]

No surprise to me that once Linda started punching people, it was revealed that Shawn sent a demon to Michael's neighborhood to sabotage him. Reason #355 that I still believe Shawn was pulling the strings behind Michael's back during Season 1 and early Season 2 to ensure he failed every time. If Linda hadn't blown the cover, Michael wouldn't have caught him this time either.

I have the feeling that this wasn't the last we will see of Derek. He'll end up rebooted or something and cause more problems for Jason (even if it isn't purposefully; he and Janet have some history and that alone makes it harder for Jason).

[Bruinsfan]

10 hours ago, hertolo said:

Brent could have some role, he‘s played by a familiar actor.

He was one of the leads on Work It, possibly the worst sitcom in television history. This does not endear his character to me.

[bros402]

On 9/27/2019 at 5:06 PM, Enginerd said:

I thought that was odd, also. Even in the very first episode, she was creating/maintaining the place with seemingly no effort. You'd think after so many reboots and upgrades, she'd be so powerful that this would be nothing. Does her increasing human abilities like humor, sarcasm, and love come with increasing human challenges like fatigue and struggle?

This is the Medium Place - she normally has no powers there, but I bet even with the judge unlocking her powers there, it's more stressful - especially since she needs to run ~315 or so humans, all of whom are their own people with thoughts and feelings who presumably have memories of their nonexistent lives

15 hours ago, Amarsir said:

Oh, sure. There's a lot of "Writer's Hand" in this show. (That's when the character speaks in a way that reflects the views of the writer more than strictly how that character themself would act.) For example, there's nothing inherently evil about the Richard Marx song "Right Here Waiting". But a writer doesn't like it so it becomes a joke about being the "deeply horrible" song that Shawn listens to for inspiration. As a comedy, not only can they get away with it but it's part of the charm.

John and Brent are definitely closer to that side of the show. They're bad in the same way everyone from Jacksonville or France is bad - not realistically but as a vehicle for jokes and plot movement. So I'm willing to give them some leeway with it. 

And IIRC according to the podcast, Richard Marx swiftly approved the usage of his song because he likes The Good Place

[The Companion]

9 hours ago, Lugal said:

First, not all of us in Arizona are like that (OK, maybe in Phoenix) but I see Eleanor (who generally doesn't suffer fools gladly) has a low tolerance for assholes when their assholery is directed at her (if it's directed at someone else, she doesn't care)

I didn't think so.  She said she has to keep constantly monitoring the neighborhood so it doesn't collapse (which she didn't have to do before), and then she has to make a major change, like adding a popcorn river.  On top of that, she has Derek and Jason's drama and then to top it off she has Brent demanding little shit every few minutes from her, like those people you meet who want you to do every damn thing for them as opposed to getting off their asses and doing it themselves.  Throw in the fact that if she screws it all up her friends are tortured forever and she's a marble, I can see why she's grouchy.

Agree on both. Eleanor has a lot of faults, but she is self confident and doesn't put up with people who are assholes to her. She walks away. I don't see Eleanor, whether original flavor or extra ethical, putting up with that crap.  

Janet is being spread thin and struggling to keep it all together. It is a lot more than she was previously doing. It is a bit like the stress she had when Team Cockroach was being preserved by her. She is running all the people and the neighborhood and trying to be a not-a-girlfriend.

[Ailianna]

On 9/28/2019 at 3:30 PM, hertolo said:

But I do like the idea that the test isn‘t how it seems to be set up. Too many questions remain open: Like, what‘s the impulse for the new humans to try to get better? As pointed out, in the original, two of the candidates knew they weren‘t supposed to be in the good place. Or, the missing concept of the soulmates. That was necessary to give some sort of drive to the first season. Without it, meh...

Regarding the soulmate issue, in the original, the humans were paired up and paired up with the one who, on paper, would be most likely to drive them crazy.  Tahani and Jason seem like they would be oil and fire, Chidi and Eleanor should have been like sandpaper on sunburn.  And yet both pairs clicked and made real connections.  The romantic part of soulmates was totally part of it.  They now have 3 men and 1 woman, and while I think the gossip blogger might be gay, toxic masculinity guy would throw fits at being matched with a guy.  (Not in a growth way, though...)  They want to put Chidi with Simone.  And matching the humans with Janet's creations would be dangerous, not only because it's unclear how close a scrutiny the creations can withstand but also because of the extra stress on Janet.  I think Team Cockroach are wise to avoid this now.  And even in the beginning, they didn't know who they were getting, so they couldn't plan to match them up with appropriate soulmates.  I don't think it's a problem in this setup, I think it's a reflection of the change in the scenario.

[Bruinsfan]

4 hours ago, Ailianna said:

They now have 3 men and 1 woman, and while I think the gossip blogger might be gay, toxic masculinity guy would throw fits at being matched with a guy.  (Not in a growth way, though...)

It'd be a great way to convince him that he got mistaken for someone else rather than arriving at the Good Place on his own merit, though. And I imagine being matched up with him would convince the blogger that all was not right as well.

One problem I foresee in helping Simone become a better person is that she was already pretty awesome when alive. Overcoming her current obnoxious behavior is one thing, but that's a post-death behavior brought on by her belief that she's hallucinating everything and wouldn't be reflected in her starting points total. I didn't see that many flaws in need of improvement last season; she's more the type of person you'd think would naturally be rewarded in a merit-based afterlife.

[Catfi9ht]

On 9/29/2019 at 1:46 AM, Bruinsfan said:

He was one of the leads on Work It, possibly the worst sitcom in television history. This does not endear his character to me.

I'm not a fan of that actor either. I was really surprised when the other actors were talking him up on The Good Place the Podcast during the latest episode and labeled him, "The actor's actor". I think Chris Elliott is described the same way, and I can't stand him either for similar reasons.

[JessDVD]

I don't mind Writer's Hand in the sense of Arizona trash, everyone from Florida is bad, etc, but the toxic male character is falling flat for me since they've really already done that with the Shaun and Trevor. We've been bingeing seasons 1-3 in prep for 4 and those sort of jokes have come up several times before, some of them twice (I had forgotten that Trevor uses the "You should smile more" line in season 1 and again in season 3). Like we get it, you can't stand toxic masculinity, none of the rest of us can either, but let's find some different material. Watching the whole series in quick succession has made me appreciate all over how good the writers of this show are, and seeing them come back to what IMO is low-lying fruit, is disappointing. Hopefully it will redeem itself in future episodes.

[Blakeston]

On 9/29/2019 at 6:53 AM, The Companion said:

Agree on both. Eleanor has a lot of faults, but she is self confident and doesn't put up with people who are assholes to her. She walks away. I don't see Eleanor, whether original flavor or extra ethical, putting up with that crap.  

Of course not. No one's saying she'd like Toxic Masculinity Guy. But would he really be Eleanor's worst nightmare?

We may find that he wasn't actually chosen because they think he'd be Eleanor's worst nightmare - or that his personality is very different from what we've been led to expect. I hope that's the case.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Of course not. No one's saying she'd like Toxic Masculinity Guy. But would he really be Eleanor's worst nightmare?

We may find that he wasn't actually chosen because they think he'd be Eleanor's worst nightmare - or that his personality is very different from what we've been led to expect. I hope that's the case.

I don’t think the new characters are supposed to be the Soul Squads worst nightmare. Tahani describes it as the people who are the worst for them. I took that to me the people that bring out the worst in them. 

John brings out Tahani’s feelings of insecurity and defensiveness. Brent would bring out Eleanor’s tendency to fight back verbally.

I actually don’t think that Eleanor is right about Brent being there for her. Eleanor’s worst quality is her selfishness which is challenged by Simone. We’ve already seen her try and keep Chidi and Simone apart. Brent could be there to tempt Jason into impulsively making poor decisions. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Guest

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

One problem I foresee in helping Simone become a better person is that she was already pretty awesome when alive. Overcoming her current obnoxious behavior is one thing, but that's a post-death behavior brought on by her belief that she's hallucinating everything and wouldn't be reflected in her starting points total. I didn't see that many flaws in need of improvement last season; she's more the type of person you'd think would naturally be rewarded in a merit-based afterlife.

Had Chidi not been wiped and made a townie I think Simone would have been the Chidi of the new group, the one who would help the others. I just can't see Douche having enough awareness to ask for help the way Eleanor did. IDK how they are supposed to get the new humans to want to change. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 9/28/2019 at 12:30 PM, hertolo said:

Brent could have some role, he‘s played by a familiar actor.

Brent is played by Benjamin Koldyke. He's been recurring/regular on a bunch of shows (Big Love, HIMYM, Masters of Sex, etc).

[snarktini]

On 9/26/2019 at 7:38 PM, SammyBeBop said:

I have a sneaking suspicion something hinky happened with Janet on the train at the end. Like, maybe they swapped her with a new, unevolved Janet.

I like seeing the theories that have been posted! We'll see! It did seem like a giant arrow pointing to a situation where Michael thinks he's being so clever but it backfires in some way.

On 9/27/2019 at 7:28 AM, Enginerd said:

For awhile I was thinking the challenge was how to deal with someone so utterly uninterested in anything, including self-improvement. I still think that would be a good plot thread, because people like that are so irritating. Also, what are the moral implications of being so satisfied with mediocrity and so ungenerous in conversation? Would the point system say that this is nirvana, wanting nothing, and therefore morally superior? Or that being a useless lump who appreciates nothing and does nothing for others is damnable? What do we owe to each other? Not to be a joy-sucking party pooper who''s fine with never improving anything?

Love your take, Enginerd! Great questions. 

I wasn't clear why they were fixating on her being boring when the real problem, per the experiment, is that someone so utterly uninterested in anything would have not have the curiosity needed to question anything, much less engage with the other humans and ultimately grow.

 

 

On 9/28/2019 at 12:30 PM, hertolo said:

For awhile I was thinking the challenge was how to deal with someone so utterly uninterested in anything, including self-improvement. I still think that would be a good plot thread, because people like that are so irritating. Also, what are the moral implications of being so satisfied with mediocrity and so ungenerous in conversation? Would the point system say that this is nirvana, wanting nothing, and therefore morally superior? Or that being a useless lump who appreciates nothing and does nothing for others is damnable? What do we owe to each other? Not to be a joy-sucking party pooper who''s fine with never improving anything?

I do hope this is the case, too, because it doesn't make sense right now. In the past the writers have done a good job of turning what look like bad writing or glitches into well-thought-out plot points.

It would also help explain why the Bad Place was allowed to select all the test subjects without oversight -- seriously, is the Judge / Good Place that naive? -- and then they cheated anyway and basically got away with it. I'd prefer a resolution where this is all part of the plan, not stupidity.

[bros402]

15 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

It'd be a great way to convince him that he got mistaken for someone else rather than arriving at the Good Place on his own merit, though. And I imagine being matched up with him would convince the blogger that all was not right as well.

One problem I foresee in helping Simone become a better person is that she was already pretty awesome when alive. Overcoming her current obnoxious behavior is one thing, but that's a post-death behavior brought on by her belief that she's hallucinating everything and wouldn't be reflected in her starting points total. I didn't see that many flaws in need of improvement last season; she's more the type of person you'd think would naturally be rewarded in a merit-based afterlife.

I think Simone would get docked for all of the bad stuff she has done so far in the Good Place - it would make sense, given their complicated points system. She just has to counteract it by becoming good.

I think in the next episode or two, we will see flaws that we didn't see on Earth.

[Bruinsfan]

Possibly, but the stated point of the experiment is to see if the new subjects grow and improve compared to their earthly lives, not to undo backsliding they engage in afterward. Unless Simone was hiding some dark side we weren't made aware of previously, that would necessitate spurring her to improve into practical sainthood, which could be a tall order.

Sean may have had a mixed strategy, as Simone both presents a way to throw half of Team Cockroach off their game and a significant inherent challenge that's not obvious. There's clearly lots of room for improvement with John and Trent, but their apparent lack of reflection and self awareness would make it difficult to convince them they don't belong in the Good Place, and their awful behavior is a barrier to them forming the kind of connections that led to Tahani growing and improving.

[jmonique]

20 hours ago, Dani said:

I actually don’t think that Eleanor is right about Brent being there for her. Eleanor’s worst quality is her selfishness which is challenged by Simone. We’ve already seen her try and keep Chidi and Simone apart. Brent could be there to tempt Jason into impulsively making poor decisions. 

Brent seems to be there to try Janet's patience with his entitled demands.

I agree with the user upthread who said the Soul Squad seems to be the ones tested: Jason gave into his baser instincts and plunged Derrick; Janet's ready to go OFF thanks to the demands put on her by the experiment and Brent; Eleanor is still trying to keep Simone and Chidi apart. 

The only two we didn't see really give into their baser instincts in part 1 were Tahani, who was solidly a sidekick for the episode, and Michael.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I think the gossip blogger might be gay,

He mentioned an ex-boyfriend at the party when he was talking up some of the guests, so definitely yes.

[Enginerd]

14 hours ago, snarktini said:

I wasn't clear why they were fixating on her being boring when the real problem, per the experiment, is that someone so utterly uninterested in anything would have not have the curiosity needed to question anything, much less engage with the other humans and ultimately grow.

It's a problem faced by many teachers as well: How do you motivate someone who doesn't care about anything, when torture is not an option? And it's even more complicated in the good place, because their actions only count if they become self-motivated to do things just because they're right, and not to avoid consequences.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Possibly, but the stated point of the experiment is to see if the new subjects grow and improve compared to their earthly lives, not to undo backsliding they engage in afterward. Unless Simone was hiding some dark side we weren't made aware of previously, that would necessitate spurring her to improve into practical sainthood, which could be a tall order.

Not really because improvement is judged on the points system. Simone should improve just from a more simplified system that removes unintended consequences. 

[whiporee]

On 9/30/2019 at 1:58 PM, Blakeston said:

Of course not. No one's saying she'd like Toxic Masculinity Guy. But would he really be Eleanor's worst nightmare?

Eleanor's worst nightmare is people who think they are better than her. Brent clearly fits into that category. I think he's a different kind of person than Trevor is when he's annoying her, because there's no act to Brent. He just feels like he's superior. Probably born into his position, probably gives to the occasional charity. He's a lot like Tahani with an assumed position of social status and forgiveness. 

I don't think any of this will last long, but I don't agree with the idea that his character type has been overused. Trevor was more of a "bro." This guy is an ass, but he's a different kind of ass. 

[shoregirl]

The Kars4Kids song just came on the radio. I started cracking up and the people I'm driving with must think I'm nuts 😂. 

[aradia22]

Even though I didn't have a long wait since I was able to binge seasons 1-3, it was a little rough starting with that recap and remembering John is in this version of The Good Place. Then they gave us Brent. I'm glad they switched to Simone really being the focus of the episode though. I feel like John and Brent are best for throwaway gags. I have very little interest in them as actual characters. 

OH MY GOD. The Kars 4 Kids song. They ARE from The Bad Place.

I just want to adopt "Oh, I'm not part of this." as my new go-to.

I figured that Linda was secretly a demon but I didn't expect Linda to be a disguise for shirtless dude. I just expected that Linda was a demon we hadn't met before.

[aradia22]

Quote

She only got there in season one because she was told. I don't know if she ever figured it out in the 300 years, but while we've seen Tahani accept she's in the bad place, we've never seen her make the actual jump herself. 

I would disagree slightly. Later incarnations of Tahani needed to be helped along but early Tahani thought something might be wrong because she couldn't connect with her supposed soulmate. And part of that was a seed of doubt that she wasn't good enough to connect with someone so enlightened and maybe hoping for more of a romantic love. I guess Brent would have to be dissatisfied. Like, maybe Janet could stop responding to him as much or as well. Or they could just do a twist on Eleanor early in season 1 when things she said/thought seemed to be causing the world to break. 

Anyway, I'm definitely on the bandwagon that this might still be a test for our original 4 humans. 

[Dobian]

On 9/26/2019 at 6:56 PM, shoregirl said:

LOL the Bad Places song is the Kars4Kids. Seems spot on.

I howled.  that really MUST be Hell's theme song!