S02.E07: I Want To Know

[formerlyfreedom]

Celeste questions Mary Louise about a tragic event from Perry’s childhood; Madeline worries their lie is tearing the Monterey Five apart.

Season Finale!

Airing Sunday, July 21, 2019.

[tomsmom]

Ugh I hope they put this show out if it’s misery.

[Lola82]

I’m satisfied with the end, I feel like every character got closure. Loved seeing Celeste in lawyer mode. Overall I enjoyed the season...moreso than most viewers it seems like.

[Paws]

Welp. The courtroom stuff really beggars belief in parts, but glad Mary Louise is done. I was Convinced Celeste would crash on the way there especially since one of the kids wasn’t buckled in.

[stagmania]

Welp, that was pretty damn underwhelming. This season was a whole lot of build up to very little.

But hey, the music was great.

[humbleopinion]

the opening song....Cold Little Heart is haunting....

Judgey judger...Renata needs to live on somehow....

Celeste is Sleeping Beauty and Perry her Prince..

Meryl, Nicole, Laura all win Emmys for their performances in the 2020 Emmy show since the show isn’t eligible for 2019....

Ed’s idea is preposterous....Sappy dreck...unacceptable...

Josh and Max are very handsome in their suits and ties.....

Everything tied up with a bow....hope all the checks cashed....because no one should be happy how they ruined the awesomeness of Season 1 by making Season 2

Willie and Janice singing us out.....did not make us feel better.

Edited July 22, 2019 by humbleopinion

[sunshine23]

WTH?! Everyone got closure but us. Walking into the police station? To confess pushing Perry or to confess putting something in her mom's iv to cause a fatal stroke? Did Jane just tell surfboard guy to wait a sec? And speaking of surfboard guy, his new name is red herring. 

[slowpoked]

That was a nice ending to an uneven season, even though everything was wrapped neatly in a tidy bow. 

Most of ML's lines made me cringe tonight: "He's the victim here, not you.", "I know my son abused you, but you were complicit in it, you enabled it, and therefore you put the boys in danger." Jeez, no wonder Perry grew up to be the manipulative abuser that he was.

Renata gets the line of the night: " Can't a woman just get a little respect?!"

I'm going to miss Laura Dern's Renata and Nicole Kidman's Celeste. Despite a not-so-sterling season, these two gave the most memorable characters and performances on TV the last couple of years.

[WaltersHair]

The only saving grace for this episode was Renata in full crazy mode. I kept thinking, she's going to trash that train set Mr. Smartypants, keep talking. Then Chekhov's baseball bats appeared over her shoulder like beacons in the night.

Otherwise, complete let down. Please showrunners, let this one die in peace.

Edited July 22, 2019 by WaltersHair

[SourK]

Ugh. I have a lot of questions about this -- and I don't think it's doing Celeste any favours to immediately confess to a crime after winning the custody battle (?!) -- but I think the thing that bugs me most is this magic video that shows up, proving that Celeste is telling the truth about Perry. Part of the problem abuse victims have in real life is that they generally can't prove what happened so definitively and it's a little disappointing to see the show build an escape hatch out of that issue.

Also, it's true that many abusers were abused themselves as children, but I'm not super keen on this thing where Celeste is removing any responsibility Perry has for his own behaviour and chucking it onto Mary Louise. That's an interesting dynamic, but not when it's tossed on at the last minute like that.

Most of Celeste's questions seemed bogus, but I guess most of the questions addressed to her last week seemed bogus too, so... this is a weird courtroom.

I wish the show had only been one season.

[humbleopinion]

Yes, we cannot unsee Season Two of Big Little Lies...

Unless, we all shake the snow globe and see Bixby Bridge in the snow flurry.....

[SoWindsor]

Loved it!! 

[Chaos Theory]

I thought that was a beautiful ending to a beautiful season.  I really thought the ending did a good job showing how close and loyal these women actually were to each other.  Walking into the police station together was a good final moment.

i also really loved Renata’s breakdown.  Gordon is pretty damn lucky she didn’t take that bat to his balls.   Of course Gordon is proud of himself for keeping control of his toys even after Renata was forced to sell all of hers.   

My favorite scene though (unrealistic as it probably was) was the courtroom scene between Celeste and Mary Louise.   It was really well done the way Celeste brought to surface the abject blindness Mary Louise has for Perry.

i really thought this was a very good end for the series.  

[mojoween]

Meh.  I’ll always have season one to look back on fondly.

I am still so irritated that Gordon was fucking the nanny because that is SUCH lazy writing I mean come ON.  It would have been so much funnier if he was promising to pay her to put up with Renata’s capriciousness.  

[Johnny Dollar]

Predictable, trite, boring and very disappointing. 

[humbleopinion]

Lazy writing is Ed and Madeline doing the vow renewal...felt bad for Adam and Reece.

[stagmania]

We should give Laura Dern her Emmy and then all politely pretend this season never happened.

[CleoCaesar]

Season 1: well-written, high-quality show. Season 2: shameless cash grab. It really showed.

What an incoherent mess of a season. Little bits of storylines, nothing that felt thought-out. Amateurish courtroom scenes. Most of all, the season hinged on the nonsensical: Why would they lie about protecting their friend who was being beaten to death?

[Nordly Beaumont]

9 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Renata gets the line of the night: " Can't a woman just get a little respect?!"

I think it was Pop Culture Happy Hour that said Renata didn't really have a story line, she just had a bunch of scenes made to create internet memes. First thing I thought of when I saw that scene.

Celeste said something about how the lie has eroded them and their friendships. That's the show I wanted to see. Bonnie's mother was a complete waste of time. Gordon losing all the money was pointless (except... internet memes). Coping with the death of Perry and the cover up would have made a better story, but they would have needed better writers.

[humbleopinion]

Celeste “The lie is the friendship.”

[chocolatine]

When has a vow renewal ever solved anything?

[sashayshante]

I'm doubtful this season will even be remembered at Emmy nomination season next year. I don't even see it getting any Golden Globe nods. It was just too uneven and the writing was atrocious. Giving Renata meme worthy dialogue is not enough to merit a nomination. And Kidman has already won once for the same material.

Curious why Reese didn't step in regarding the issue with the woman director having control wrangled from her so Mark Vallee could edit the episodes. She's the producer.

[RedheadZombie]

4 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I'm doubtful this season will even be remembered at Emmy nomination season next year. I don't even see it getting any Golden Globe nods. It was just too uneven and the writing was atrocious. Giving Renata meme worthy dialogue is not enough to merit a nomination. And Kidman has already won once for the same material.

Curious why Reese didn't step in regarding the issue with the woman director having control wrangled from her so Mark Vallee could edit the episodes. She's the producer.

I thought Nicole was a producer as well. 

[peggy06]

I mostly enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy Celeste's takedown of Mary Louise like I had hoped. I felt too sorry for Mary Louise having lost her child that way. What a horrible burden to live with.

Maddie runs true to form - Ed proposes a vow renewal in a heartfelt conversation. She immediately starts talking about having it on the beach, a big party. Probably already envisioning her dress. Sorry, I just don't like the character and don't feel the part was especially well-acted.

I am somewhat confused about what exactly happened with Bonnie's mother. 

Renata this episode mostly seemed OTT to me. And I generally love Renata. Just kick that idiot to the curb and be done with it.

Um, Celeste? Did Jane know you were going to out her rape in open court like that? Sure hope so.

8 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Celeste “The lie is the friendship.”

What is your take on that line? (Also, great screen name!)

[DoubleUTeeEff]

How much fun it must have been to smash up all those toys! That moment felt earned to me.

However, Madeline and Ed renewing their vows did not feel earned. It was more like this was the last episode so they had to wrap it up.

I felt the same about the Monterey 5 turning themselves in. I don't think they showed the friendships enough between all the women excepting Madeline and Celeste. And maybe a bit of Jane and Celeste. As for the rest of the women, we're just supposed to believe they'd go along with Bonnie when she made a unilateral decision and only texted them right before she went in. They went from Celeste saying "the lie is the friendship" to hey, I just got full custody of my kids and I just renewed my vows to let's all turn ourselves in with no discussion! That's like 0 to 100 in 3 seconds flat. What did Madeline tell Ed? I know we just recommitted ourselves to each other but I've been lying about this huge thing and now we've got to deal with the consequences.  Poor Ed.

It's also probably a pretty bad idea for Bonnie to make such huge life decisions right after her mother died. 

Speaking of, it seemed incredibly cruel for Bonnie to tell Nathan that she never loved him. Breaking up with him is fair play but why be so brutally honest when it's just not necessary. I felt for Nathan in that scene even though he was portrayed to be such a douche bag.

[stagmania]

4 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I'm doubtful this season will even be remembered at Emmy nomination season next year. I don't even see it getting any Golden Globe nods. It was just too uneven and the writing was atrocious.

LOL tell that to the worst and yet most nominated season ever of Game of Thrones.

Still working through my disappointment. We didn't even get a big Mary Louise meltdown in the end! If we were going to go full family court melodrama and leave behind all notions of realism, we deserved to see her really lose her shit. They couldn't seem to decide all season if they wanted Mary Louise to be a true villain or a sympathetic character and that indecisiveness really came through in the writing.

[humbleopinion]

“THE LIE” was Season 2 of Big Little Lies...

This is how Godfather 1 and 2 felt about Godfather 3.

Edited July 22, 2019 by humbleopinion

[mbaywife123]

My favorite line was "you lost your boys, you don't get to take mine" thru the cracked open front door.

[ECM1231]

So, did Bonnie do something to hasten her mom's death? 

[Calamity Jane]

Each week this season, I’ve had to pause a while and ponder just how the episode is landing for me. Something about every show has been puzzling and, inconsistent?  Maybe?  Just didn’t feel the way last season’s did. And here I am in the same situation tonight, just not sure where the wheel of judgment will stop. 

Overall, it was worth watching, if for no other reason than that there just isn’t much else on that does seem worthy of time and attention. I like that important issues of abuse and violence were given consideration, including the excuses abusers (and their doting moms apparently) will offer to assuage their own guilt. 

And although Bonnie’s storyline just seemed out of place, it did raise the excruciating choices families face when debilitating strokes abruptly change the entire landscape of your life, and I appreciated that. 

Finally, we got some of the best scenes ever filmed from Laura Dern. Her Renata is going to go down in history, and were the highlight of every episode. I knew how things were going to play out for everyone when Renata verbally flattened Mary Louise at the coffee place.

I am glad this is it for the show, but I did enjoy watching these phenomenal women’s performances. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Calamity Jane
Were is not the same as we’re, autocorrect.

[txhorns79]

25 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I am still so irritated that Gordon was fucking the nanny because that is SUCH lazy writing I mean come ON.  It would have been so much funnier if he was promising to pay her to put up with Renata’s capriciousness.  

I feel like Gordon is written as too clueless to live.  I mean, I get that he's supposed to be an asshole, but come on.  If it were me, I'd be walking on eggshells around Renata if I had put her into bankruptcy and publicly humiliated her a second time when my mistress/nanny tries to get compensated for our affair.  Instead, he seems to double down on his cluelessness in ways that don't seem humanly possible. 

6 minutes ago, stagmania said:

They couldn't seem to decide all season if they wanted Mary Louise to be a true villain or a sympathetic character and that indecisiveness really came through in the writing.

Even with the courtroom melodrama, I think they wanted to try to keep her somewhat human to show that people are rarely all good or all evil.  And I do think she got a fitting end.  She's leaving Monterrey, likely realizing that her grandkids are going to be mostly lost to her and that she brought this on herself.          

I didn't love Jane's ending.  I feel like she's only known Corey a few months, and it's more that the plotline requires her to have closure and love him, after everything that happened with Perry, rather than it feeling natural. 

[jenn31]

43 minutes ago, stagmania said:

We should give Laura Dern her Emmy and then all politely pretend this season never happened.

Can’t agree with you there. Ranting and raving isn’t great acting to me. Renata is a man’s idea of what a woman is like.

David Kelley should stick to writing shows about men, he’s good at those. He has no clue when or comes to women. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm the person that always argues for more seasons of a show, but the writing for this one was very bad.  And I love Meryl Streep, but I got nothing out of this.  Just not my thing whatsoever.  Twitter was going crazy about how much they loved the season and I was just ???

To me, this one is dead.  This season added nothing of value for me, really. It was fun to laugh at Renata's meltdowns, I guess.  I thought some stuff with Bonnie was interesting, and I liked Nicole in the court scenes.  Other than that. 

That detective who always was following them around and skulking.  LOL.  The show didn't even give her a moment in the end.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[chocolatine]

27 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

So, did Bonnie do something to hasten her mom's death? 

I don't think so. It's pretty common for someone who's very ill to get suddenly better and then die. All the scenes of Bonnie smothering her mom with a pillow were fakeouts.

Edited July 22, 2019 by chocolatine

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

Can’t agree with you there. Ranting and raving isn’t great acting to me. Renata is a man’s idea of what a woman is like.

David Kelley should stick to writing shows about men, he’s good at those. He has no clue when or comes to women. 

I did like Ally McBeal

[jenn31]

32 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

it seemed incredibly cruel for Bonnie to tell Nathan that she never loved him. Breaking up with him is fair play but why be so brutally honest when it's just not necessary. 

A woman would never do that. (Unless the guy had been an asshole to her, maybe.) These writers. 

[slowpoked]

28 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I felt the same about the Monterey 5 turning themselves in. I don't think they showed the friendships enough between all the women excepting Madeline and Celeste. And maybe a bit of Jane and Celeste.

With the big news coming out about the director's conflict  just last week or so, I would always wonder what and how much ended up on the cutting room floor that made this season zig and zag so much. I do think Renata being part of the actual group, more than the ladies trying to be polite to her face and roll her eyes behind her back was a good development from last season. The ladies did support her through bankruptcy and she was helpful when Celeste's case was getting filed in court. 

4 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

Ranting and raving isn’t great acting to me. Renata is a man’s idea of what a woman is like.

YMMV, but I felt that outrage was earned though. She didn't come in the room charging to ruin Gordon's toy trains. He was a prick for saying about needing new toys to play with now that the nanny was gone. I don't blame her one bit for taking a bat to his toys.

I also like her earlier line to ML about "Everything I did, I did for my family and my child. They have always come first...." (paraphrasing). There's still so much stigma in the society about women being powerful in their careers, that it seems automatic to assume that because they are in such positions of power, they are heavily lacking in their contributions and time for the family. Having a powerful career IS the contribution to the family, making sure the children have a good house to live and there's food on the table, making sure the children can go to good schools and hopefully a good future. I'm glad Renata spelled that out when ML was just going to shame her for Gordon banging the nanny because she was so busy. 

[Umbelina]

I keep thinking I'd like to see this one as it was originally shot and cut, before David got his hands on it.

Sad.

[txhorns79]

5 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

A woman would never do that. (Unless the guy had been an asshole to her, maybe.) These writers. 

I'm sure there have been women who have done that, just like I'm sure there are women who would not do that.  In this case, I think Bonnie was emotionally spent and just felt like saying what she felt needed to be said. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by txhorns79

[jenn31]

4 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I did like Ally McBeal

I never watched it so couldn’t say. Was it based on a book? He seems to do okay if adapting from a book but not very well when he writes with his own ideas. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

I never watched it so couldn’t say. Was it based on a book? He seems to do okay if adapting from a book but not very well when he writes with his own ideas. 

No, he created it.  

[jenn31]

3 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

YMMV, but I felt that outrage was earned though. She didn't come in the room charging to ruin Gordon's toy trains. He was a prick for saying about needing new toys to play with now that the nanny was gone. I don't blame her one bit for taking a bat to his toys.

No I didn’t either but most of her acting in this was Renata ranting. Not something I’m big on. So many men seem to think that’s how all women react to things. 

[ferjy]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I don't think so. It's pretty common for someone who's very ill to get suddenly better and then die. All the scenes of Bonnie smothering her mom with a pillow were fakeouts.

I didn't think so either. I thought I had missed something with people here suggesting it.

[Blakeston]

That big scene with Bonnie and Nathan would have been a lot more meaningful if we'd actually been shown them interacting for more than a few seconds throughout the entire series.

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm sure there have been women who have done that

I  don't see many women being that cruel either. Not if the man loves them, and certainly not someone like Bonnie who seems a decent sort. I found that really bad writing.

[humbleopinion]

The lie is the friendship 

means the lie was the initial foundation for the friendship out of necessity to keep the secret among the Monterey Five.....but in the year since the push they have forged actual friendships and la dee da..their friendship will continue as they all skip into the Police station confess that Bonnie shoved Perry to his death...

Guess Mary Louise will be making a U turn back.....for Season 3...joking...

Edited July 22, 2019 by humbleopinion

[PepSinger]

I’m glad this show came back for a season two. It wasn’t quite as good as the first season, but it was still really good. 

I loved the ending. “No more lies” all around with each of their endings was well done. I hope this show receives many nominations and awards next season. Yes, there were definitely behind the scenes issues, but I really don’t agree with how much criticism this season has received. 

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I didn't think so either. I thought I had missed something with people here suggesting it.

Well, there have been many "dream" scenes over the season with Bonnie smothering her mother, and with the choppy editing, people can be forgiven for thinking that she may have had something to with her death. I blame the show, not the viewers.

[jenn31]

10 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

No, he created it.  

Thanks. I wasn’t sure because it shows him as creator for BLL too but this was based on a book (first season, that is).

[scrb]

Mary Louise trolls Renata at the cafe about nannies.  First the furniture, then the nanny.

Bonnie loved her mother because despite all the angry tantrums she directed at Bonnie as a little girl, she instilled this lifelong desire to endlessly gaze at the ocean.

So Ed wanting to renew his vows means he didn’t fall to temptation with that woman who was shoving her tits in his face?  Or maybe it means he did?  

Bonnie realized she could lie to Nathan or herself anymore.  But did she have to confess to murder to get away from him?

Speaking of douches, Renata took seconds to destroy the years of entitlement she allowed Gordon to cultivate.

i think the sequel is going to be set 30 years later, when the kids are their parents age, because you know the dysfunction is going to be passed down.