S02.E07: I Want To Know

[BigBlueMastiff]

16 hours ago, archer1267 said:

I don't have kids but I couldn't imagine a child Ziggy's age having that heart-to-heart with his mom on the beach. Boys that age don't have any use for romance, so Ziggy offering sage counsel and saying "you should be with him" just seemed overly precocious. Although I don't know for sure - do kids talk like that nowadays?

I also, find it odd that a parent would even have such a discussion with a child that age. Why would you even allow your child to think it was appropriate to have such a conversation with you, let alone expect you to answer them as if they were a peer. They need some serious discussions about boundaries, and child-appropriate conversations.

[ladle]

On 7/21/2019 at 10:28 PM, stagmania said:

They couldn't seem to decide all season if they wanted Mary Louise to be a true villain or a sympathetic character and that indecisiveness really came through in the writing.

Hmm, I actually thought it was a conscious choice to make her both.  This wasn't my favorite season of any TV show I've ever watched, but that character felt layered and interesting to me.  I think she was motivated by her love for her grandsons and genuinely felt they were in jeopardy, but just when she'd emotionally pull me in, she'd show us again that she's also an awful person.  Nobody on this show is a mustache-twirling villain, and no one's a saint either.  They're all at various places on that continuum. 

There's one thing I'm still confused about, though... Mary Louise said that she did not tell Perry that it was his fault his brother died.  Celeste seemed to think she was lying but...Mary Louise just seemed so adamant about it.  So was Perry lying?  Maybe making up a story to justify or explain away his own bad behavior?  Or is Mary Louise lying?  Or in denial?  What are we meant to believe here? 

[TwoBitUsherette]

22 hours ago, archer1267 said:

I don't have kids but I couldn't imagine a child Ziggy's age having that heart-to-heart with his mom on the beach. Boys that age don't have any use for romance, so Ziggy offering sage counsel and saying "you should be with him" just seemed overly precocious. Although I don't know for sure - do kids talk like that nowadays?

That scene was ridiculous. It would have made sense coming from Madeline or Celeste or any of the other women, but not Ziggy. Of course that would have required the women to share scenes of friendship, which didn't seem to be a high priority this season.

[DeeplyShallow]

On 7/25/2019 at 8:41 PM, archer1267 said:

I don't have kids but I couldn't imagine a child Ziggy's age having that heart-to-heart with his mom on the beach. Boys that age don't have any use for romance, so Ziggy offering sage counsel and saying "you should be with him" just seemed overly precocious. Although I don't know for sure - do kids talk like that nowadays?

Much like Maddie’s daughter calling her mother “unhinged” in her art project, it was absolutely ridiculous.

no, children do not speak like that these days, they are not perceptive like that. I have an 8 year old- she’s smart and more aware of things than I was when I was her age (as are her friends) but no matter what - kids do not have the emotional maturity to have these important realizations about “relationships” and certainly Ziggy wouldn’t speak like that to his mother. At most she’d hear “I like him, is he your boyfriend? I want him to be your boyfriend bc he’s so nice, fun, etc”. And it wouldn’t be about his mother’s reluctance to open up her heart, it would be about what Ziggy wants (a dad in his life, someone fun to be around, whatever).

In general, the season was awful. I lost interest but stuck with it to see how they’d wrap things up, but the writing, direction, and editing were all uneven. There was promise with the first episode- how the Perry experience affected each woman in a different way. One empowered (Renata), one free (Jane), one traumatized (Bonnie), one nervous but in denial (Maddie), the other lost & confused (Celeste). There was so much they could have done with that. They turned this into a sad little soap opera. What a disappointment.

oh, and just because the music worked so well last season, doesn’t mean they have to force it down our throats this season. Everything was just so try hard.

[archer1267]

Thanks, everyone, for the reality check on how young kids talk (i.e., NOT like the dialogue the child actors were given!).

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about the writing and it not ringing true to real life. One thing that bugged me weeks ago was Ed being angry that Maddie hadn't told him about Jane being raped - I think Ed's character was sensitive enough to realize (especially as the father to daughters) that Maddie was perhaps protecting Jane and protecting her privacy. I've been married for nearly 19 years and tell my husband a lot, but am not sure if I would tell him that a friend had been raped. It would depend on the context, but I wouldn't see that as my story to share - I would see it as "outing" a rape victim. (And I know he'd understand.)

Edited July 27, 2019 by archer1267

[DeeplyShallow]

5 hours ago, archer1267 said:

Thanks, everyone, for the reality check on how young kids talk (i.e., NOT like the dialogue the child actors were given!).

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about the writing and it not ringing true to real life. One thing that bugged me weeks ago was Ed being angry that Maddie hadn't told him about Jane being raped - I think Ed's character was sensitive enough to realize (especially as the father to daughters) that Maddie was perhaps protecting Jane and protecting her privacy. I've been married for nearly 19 years and tell my husband a lot, but am not sure if I would tell him that a friend had been raped. It would depend on the context, but I wouldn't see that as my story to share - I would see it as "outing" a rape victim. (And I know he'd understand.)

I 100% agree!

[Summerday]

It feels like this entire season was made of the same episode 7 times. Pretty sure every episode started the same way with flashbacks of the night Perry died. Every episode contained flashbacks of Perry and Celeste having sex. It just felt like the writer couldn't come up with enough story to fill the 7 episodes of the season. All of Celeste's flashbacks of her life with Perry felt less like her grieving his death and more like TPTB wanted to keep Alexander Skarsgard employed.

My biggest pet peeve with this show is that Bonnie is rarely allowed to speak. I bet she's said less than 500 words over the course of the two seasons. In her scenes she has to listen while people talk at her and she barely gets to speak back even when people (like Madeline) are extremely rude to her. I think that the only time Bonnie has been allowed to speak more than one sentence at a time is when she confessed to her comatose mother.

It really takes me out of the story when the kids who are supposed to be second graders say things that are way beyond their years. I can tell you want to be with him? I can see your face light up when you're with him? (Paraphrasing) Come on, so unrealistic.

I guess the drama behind the scenes really killed the show because they had plenty of material to fill the episodes. They could have shown us a more genuine reaction to Renata's husband bankrupting them. Frozen accounts, downsizing to an apartment and finding a way to pay for that apartment, attempting to pay for a lawyer...might've been interesting if she had had to ask Celeste to represent her for free because she couldn't afford anyone else.

Madeline's affair could've been dealt with more thoroughly...when people have affairs sometimes they can't stop cold turkey even after they're caught and they go back and forth. It could've been interesting to see that part of it explored on the show.

Bonnie's story was really mishandled. Her mom being into voodoo was just cringe worthy and kind of made me a little uncomfortable that it might be kind of a stereotype thing. Then the visions of drowning that went nowhere...what was the point? Her entire story line was poorly done...watching her stare into space looking depressed was boring as hell.

Are Reese and Nicole producers of the show in name only? If they have any real power at all, I don't understand why they would let this happen to their show. Maybe they got outvoted, idk, but it came across like no one was willing to get into the trenches and do the hard work to ensure that the story/plot was halfway decent.
 

[chenoa333]

Haven't watched the last episode of the last season yet but it seems like such a waste of the viewers time. US, the viewers, who got sucked into this thinking it was going to be really good. And now it's over.

[ladle]

Did anyone else watch "The Lies Revealed" -- that thing in which the main women the cast sit down over mimosas (which they predictably never touch) and discuss the show?  I'm not sure if it was on iTunes only... Anyway, it seems like it was filmed just after the show wrapped so they had no idea how it would be edited.  Reese made some comment about how there's a "powerful scene" in the end in which the women "in ten minutes, all decide to tell the same story."  So was there actually a scene in which they got together and decided to turn themselves in, and that was chucked in favor of a weepy-music montage??  I'm so confused...

[Crs97]

So they didn’t see the finished product before it aired?  I would think as producers they would check it.  I haven’t seen much promotion for it after the season started so no one has gotten the chance to ask any questions about the editing mess.  Inquiring minds want to know, Nicole and Reese!

[ladle]

I mean, "The Lies Revealed" was filmed just after filming wrapped, so the finished product hadn't been created yet.  Maybe they did go on to see it after it had been edited.  It just seems weird to me that they'd cut such a seemingly monumental scene!

[Razzberry]

On 7/27/2019 at 11:02 AM, archer1267 said:

. One thing that bugged me weeks ago was Ed being angry that Maddie hadn't told him about Jane being raped -

Why Maddy had an affair should have been Ed's focus, not her girlfriend's rape.  That's frankly none of his business so I found his umbrage weird and misplaced.

[maddie965]

Oh God they are talking Season 3. I was so afraid of that after realizing the Monterrey 5 were going to confess. I knew that's what they were going for...

[grommit2]

Ok...my 2 cents:
1) The opening music, accompanied by the scenery, was very cool.
2) EVERY kid in the show looked exceptionally handsome/cute.  I know, all parents think their kids are flawless, but this show had a bunch of them.
3) I actually cheered when the evil witch from the north (Mary Louise) lost her court case.  Why?  Instead of offering support, she attacked.  At least, that's how I saw it.  And now I can come out from hiding behind the couch.
4) The Maddie marriage vows scene was, well, a little too sugary for this series.
5) Bonnie's character always seemed to be drowsy.  Perhaps this was her playing someone sad and forlorn.
6) Jane hooking up with Mr. Curly Hair was, well, also a little too trite.
7) Nicole Kidman was, oh boy, Nicole Kidman.  Glad she pulled it together to nail the wicked witch.
8) But my all-time favorite was Laura Dern chewing up the scenery, the other actors, and her series husband. She really did swing a mean bat. You go girl!

[sasha206]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:21 PM, Lemons said:

Like it or not she's going to be replaced by younger women for roles that call for young mothers or when they need a couple who are supposed to be about 30 years old.  When actresses get too much work done people end up staring at it distracted.  I was staring at her mouth it was so odd looking the way it jutted out.

If they are that good and that powerful they need to be creating good stories for women of all ages.  Notice the only woman who was supposed to be  older was the villain.  

I couldn't help but look at Nicole's face; her eyes look sunken with an overly filled face of fillers.  I found it disturbing.

[Crazydoxielady]

What a train wreck of a second season. From hot to not. They never should have pushed the second season, and I will not be aboard for a third. I am already peeved I lost 7 hours of my life that I can't get back on this diatribe. Meryl was a wasted talent and I am afraid she is going the route of Bob Deniro (taking roles for money not quality work).

[meep.meep]

The only saving grace is that you didn't actually waste 7 hours - because the episodes were all so short, it might have only been 6!

[SunnyBeBe]

I can relate to these comments.  I did find this series very amusing.  I actually first watched Season 2 from start to finish in a couple of weeks, THEN, I watched Season I from start to finish.  AND then, I went back and watched portions of Season 2 again.   I'm afraid that I preferred Season 2 by far.  In  season one, they had those annoying random people talking to the camera. I suppose it was them in a police interview, but, I didn't like it at all.  It was  similar in style to how they did it in season one of Sex In The City.  I found it a turnoff.  

I think I preferred Season 2 due to Meryle Streep, plus, it moved better.   What a character she played.  You could tell she was loving the hey out of it.  Just being so mean at times, then modest, lol, so funny. Insulting short people.....And Reese Witherspoon!  She is the star of the show for me and I LOVE LOVE Kidman and Dern.  So,  as much as it did annoy me with some stupid stuff, I still enjoy this series immensely.  Oh, I was rooting for grandma to get temporary custody.  I think she really was not able to care for the boys at that time. 

[wanderingstar]

Meryl Streep was great as Mary Louise. I loved to hate her.

"The lie is the friendship." That's kinda fucked up...but also, kinda real.

OMG, Renata went full Cookie Lyon. And I'm here for it.

[txhorns79]

On 7/26/2019 at 7:59 PM, ladle said:

Hmm, I actually thought it was a conscious choice to make her both.  This wasn't my favorite season of any TV show I've ever watched, but that character felt layered and interesting to me.  I think she was motivated by her love for her grandsons and genuinely felt they were in jeopardy, but just when she'd emotionally pull me in, she'd show us again that she's also an awful person.  Nobody on this show is a mustache-twirling villain, and no one's a saint either.  They're all at various places on that continuum. 

I thought she was an interesting character.  I look at her this way: She is first and foremost Perry's mother.  She's in a situation where she (rightly) believes she is not being told the whole story regarding his death, she sees Celeste acting erratically and she starts getting told all these awful things about her son, who is no longer alive to answer for anything.  I don't know that most people would respond by trying to get sole custody of the grandchildren, but I think it is an incredibly difficult spot to be in.  And I don't even think that gets into the fact that Mary Louise appears to have a naturally abrasive personality.

 

On 7/27/2019 at 9:20 PM, Summerday said:

Are Reese and Nicole producers of the show in name only? If they have any real power at all, I don't understand why they would let this happen to their show. Maybe they got outvoted, idk, but it came across like no one was willing to get into the trenches and do the hard work to ensure that the story/plot was halfway decent.

I think it was Reese's production company that helped put the whole project together, so I presume she would have a big say in how the episodes turn out.   

[Aqua]

Okay enough with the Bonnie and her mother drama. A second tease with the pillow? Really? This silliness is not something that can be explained away by change in creative control, re-editing of scenes, etc. It is just bad writing, period.

Madeline and Ed continue to annoy me and thankfully, for the last time. 

Did anyone notice that in the ride to the courthouse, the twin on the left was not wearing a seatbelt? I thought for certain there was going to be an accident and him tragically killed. Is it possible this was the original plan and got shelved? To me it was very pointed and obvious that the belt was not around his should like his brother's.