S03 E05: Unknown Caller

[AnswersWanted]

8 hours ago, ferjy said:

I don’t get the Serena Joy joy either. That rattling plane sounded like it was on its last legs. I was hoping for a major malfunction. May the Lord open (the airplane door).

Oh what a glorious moment that would have been. 

After all she had already turned down a dream offer, again, to escape Gilead and yet she still hauled her useless ass back onto that plane and went back to the land of no reading or writing, body parts are not guaranteed to stay with or on their owners and general suffering is par for the daily course, because...at this point the show has proven she’s too stupid to live frankly anyway. 

1 hour ago, rubinia said:

Big shocker, Serena didn't live up to her word to June. That's never happened before!

If I were Luke I would've taken that locket from Serena and thrown it into the garbage in front of her. Serena can go DIAF.

But June helped heal her marriage! She was also their rape toy forced to breed for them but still, she was sure they had a connection now! I swear to god the stupid...it burns.

I really do hope Luke didn’t keep that blood gift from Serena, no way should Holly have anything from her mother’s rapist. That thing should have been left in a soon to be paved over roadway or something.

1 hour ago, LordOfLotion said:

Yeah, about that locket. I would smash that thing with a hammer and dump it in the trash in another province. Too often gifts like that from totalitarian regimes come with bonus gifts like trackers and listening devices. Come to think of it I would burn anything Serena got close to. 

I know it wasn’t intentional on the baby’s part, but there’s a shot during the scene Serena goes to hold Holly’s hand and the baby crinkles up their nose and moves their hand away from hers, heh. I loved the implication that Holly could sense who Serena was and didn’t want her touching her. 

Hopefully she will learn Papa Luke's epic side-eye ability when she’s older. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Umbelina]

9 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

You went there.

A villain who stops being a villain 1 out of 10 times is still a villain. And yes, they are plentiful in real life.

Fred also took June to see Hannah, let her read and gave her a new dress. 

Where is the parade being held

I said that it's very rare that someone is a villain or saint ALL the time, that people are complex, even evil people. 

Those things you state up there are two of the reasons June is trying to USE Fred and Serena.  I don't think she trusts either of them, but her options are pretty thin right now.  To get Hannah back, as she flat out said earlier "I need allies."

If she can use them at times?  She certainly will.  In that kind of place, you take what you can get.  Are you bound to be let down by them as well?  Yes.

8 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Thinking back on it, I actually really loved Luke taking charge of the meeting with Serena, moving the meeting location and also having her change outfits. 

Since he knew he wouldn't have to put up with any bullshit from Fred, he knew he could manipulate things in his favor.

Perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the writers, but I'd like to think that Luke intentually didn't want to have to look at Serena while in her Gilead wives' attire, being reminded of where his wife is still helplessly trapped, and the outfit she is forced to wear and what it stands for, what it signifies for June's "purpose". 

Luke getting to exert some control over the situation actually made it a little easier to get through for me. It was clear how badly he wanted to tear into Serena, his pacing back and forth was like that of someone eager to unleash hell upon something or someone. 

Yes, I loved that part of this episode.  I loved Canada scenes before as well. 

There is something delicious about seeing Serena (or Fred, or probably any other member of the oppressive class in Gilead) be talked to directly, and be called on their bullshit, have normal conversations instead of "blessed be the whatever."

"You are an asshole" is very satisfying to hear.  I love hearing Gilead called out for what it is.

8 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

I assumed he did so because the meeting was ending on a not so great note, and he saw Serena was getting agitated. 

He even asked her why she had even wanted the meetup to happen since she knew there was no way she'd be leaving with Holly. 

I think Luke tried to placate Serena because she still has access to June, could he risk pissing her off if that meant something terrible might happen to June? 

Luke was playing it by ear as best he could, here was one of his most hated enemies and yet he has to "play nice" for June's sake, so he checked his anger for her sake.

I agree.  He did as well as possible in that situation.

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really thought the visit was just a ploy for the Waterfords to steal Nicole back and/or have Luke arrested for kidnapping. I couldn't believe that Fred was being so passive and constantly demurring to Serena. This is the guy who had her finger chopped off and now he's like "whatever you want, dear."

When it seemed like Serena wasn't actually there to snatch the baby back, I thought the gift she had for Nicole had a tracking device so that they could send someone to kidnap Nicole and bring her back to Gilead. Obviously I watch the kind of shows that make me paranoid as fuck since none of that happened.

Usually Luke annoys me but I loved his nonstop side eye with Serena. I'm glad someone in that family has Serena's number, unlike June who foolishly continues to trust Serena.

And Serena, gawd, what a selfish idiot. She agree to send Nicole to Canada so that this innocent little girl wouldn't grow up oppressed and restricted, but now she's back to "I need my baby!" But hey, if getting to see your daughter grow up before your very eyes is worth knowing that she won't be allowed to read or vote or have a say in who she marries or when she can have sex, great!

I didn't have a problem with Serena being a completely selfish asshole again.  I also didn't completely "buy" that her baby-love is that all encompassing.  I never have, and God knows the writers and actor have been selling that from the beginning. 

I don't think I blame the show for that part though, it's just such a stretch for me personally.  I do know that in real life childless couples may do anything to get a child, and I do know that non birth mothers can certainly "love" their children as much as birth mothers...but this isn't "love."  Raising Nicole there is the opposite of love.

5 hours ago, dmc said:

I don’t know how women keep getting the opportunity to leave Gilead and go back...seriously WTF 

serena what are you thinking

Also that baby has no connection to Fred or Serena...

And Luke when your wife is a prisoner why bring your stolen baby to a public protest ??? 

This show makes me so angry 

I think Luke brought Nicole to the protest, knowing it would probably be filmed since babies are so rare, so that June would know Holly/Nicole made it out, and was safe.  He would really have no other way to tell her that.

3 hours ago, maggiegil said:

June's walking partner must be the most fertile handmaid in Gilead. I'm really interested to hear more about her story, she seems like she has Stockholm Syndrome, I wonder what "offense" had her relegated to handmaid in the first place.

I'm presuming we're getting a Nick-centric episode this season focusing on Chicago maybe thats when we'll find out about the wider world

Did anyone else notice that the cargo plane was full of goods on the way back, does that mean Canada is still trading with Gilead?

I agree about the walking partner!!  I am really looking forward to getting to know her now.  She may be the most valuable handmaid in Gilead, and it looks like she's ready to resist as well.

God I hope we get to see the American resistance finally!  Nick may finally be useful, and I love any and all scenes that don't take place in the Boston part of Gilead.

There is no way Canada is trading with Gilead.  It looked like a military plane to me, the supplies were probably for the soldiers, and it was just diverted to Canada for this quick trip.  (guessing)

2 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

I regret looking forward to Bradley Whitford having an expanded role. Clearly he is just a glorified guest star and we're never going to get beyond the Waterfords pissing on June. 

I would like to see a plot thread about Canada Man and what he does, but I'm not going to get it. I need to go binge a season of Burn Notice.

I think we've seen a lot of him, and I hope to see more.  He's very interesting to me on several levels.

I agree, I was so very happy to see spy guy back, and I hope we see more of him, and the American resistance in general.

2 hours ago, wirebitersm said:

Can the Waterfords really just choose to leave the baby in Canada though? Like what is Serena supposed to tell the council? No, I don’t want my baby? They could save face before the whole Gilead leadership knew where she was. But now? I feel like there is only one way for this to go for them. 

Interesting point.

2 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

This what bugs the most. All Serena has to do to remind herself of why she sent Nicole to Canada is look down at her finger. Is that the life she wants for a daughter?. Also, its not like there isn't a plethora of Handmaids to choose from to give her another baby, perhaps a boy child this time. None of this makes any damn sense.

Babies are still very rare, and Serena reverted to her selfish self.  There isn't a plethora of handmaids though, many were blown up, it was so bad they had to bring handmaids back from the nuclear colonies.

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Plot contrivance maybe?  I can't see any other reason for it except for a way for Serena to go see Luke and Luke get the tape.

In regards to Holly - I am hoping Canada takes on a Switzerland role.  They already strayed so far from the original book that it is plausible. 

In regards to the cargo, even the States who has had an embargo with Cuba still does some trading.  It's very restrictive but it's still there.  I'm thinking that maybe there could be the same thing with Canada and Gilead. 

I can see Luke and his lawyers responding "....you have MY child, give Hannah back!" 

God, I hope he doesn't trade Holly for Hannah.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

The ending of this episode just drove home to me how things could have been if June had gotten out of Gilead and began attacking Gilead from the outside.

June not escaping when she had the chance to never read as plausible to me, even with Hannah to consider. She would have immediately had more power once she was free again, she could have pulled the same TV appeal the Waterford’s did in this episode.

She could have been seated with Luke, holding baby Holly in her arms, with Moira by their side, as she demanded Gilead release her eldest daughter to rejoin her family. How impactful and swaying a statement that would have been. And that could have been only the beginning of her onslaught against that regime.

But instead June remains trapped and now she’s in the weeds regarding Serena and Fred when she believed she could use them both to her advantage.

Now they’re the ones playing puppeteer with her, just like the good ol’ days and she supposedly never saw that coming. 

[ElsbethTascioni]

Oh my god, this fucking show. I was all Gob Bluth "come on" at every goddamned turn. Stop trying to make Serena sympathetic, she's not, she will never be. Also, June is there to get Hannah out, but she can't fucking tell Luke the name of the commander that she was given to, where they live, etc.? Really!? 

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

June not escaping when she had the chance to never read as plausible to me, even with Hannah to consider. She would have immediately had more power once she was free again, she could have pulled the same TV appeal the Waterford’s did in this episode.

Not to mention that the character is supposed to act as a character, not as the actor playing the character, or viewers waiting for what is going to happen. By that, I mean Super!June! 

Let me explain: June is a handmaid who has seen horrible things happening all around her. The only plausible conclusion the character could have was that, by staying in Gilead after attempting to flee, AND "stealing" the baby, she would be on the wall, at best sent to the colonies, after a few body parts being removed. But nooooooo. The writers planned all this plot as a superhero movie where everyone, including the character, knows things will be just alright. So June can walk right back to the oppressors' hands, stare them in the eyes, continue to be defiant and keep saying "fuck" in her head. 

The writers are really, really, really bad. 

[AnswersWanted]

6 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

Not to mention that the character is supposed to act as a character, not as the actor playing the character, or viewers waiting for what is going to happen. By that, I mean Super!June! 

Let me explain: June is a handmaid who has seen horrible things happening all around her. The only plausible conclusion the character could have was that, by staying in Gilead after attempting to flee, AND "stealing" the baby, she would be on the wall, at best sent to the colonies, after a few body parts being removed. But nooooooo. The writers planned all this plot as a superhero movie where everyone, including the character, knows things will be just alright. So June can walk right back to the oppressors' hands, stare them in the eyes, continue to be defiant and keep saying "fuck" in her head. 

The writers are really, really, really bad. 

Perfectly said.

This whole episode just highlighted for me all the missed opportunities and what could have beens if only June had left and opened up the show to focus on this world through the eyes of other characters.

 I can only eye-roll so many times when sassy June fires off a one liner that at this stage would earn her solitary confinement.

The show just refused to let go of the idea that June had to be the handmaid at the center of Gilead, but they’re the ones who wrote out any plausible reason for her to even still be alive in Gilead. 

She should have left and they could have focused on the handmaids still trapped inside of that hell hole.

That new handmaid who has been partnered with June would have been a good choice, or some of the older handmaids we’ve met before, like Janine.

June and Emily’s successful escape would certainly have changed protocol for the remaining women, probably making their lives even more restrictive and dangerous.

Rita could have then been given a much bigger role as a secret resistance member, feeling emboldened by getting June and Holly out, she would have seen that it is worth the risk to undermine Gilead’s authority. 

I hate how so far Rita’s gotten shit all to do. Even in this episode she only got about a minute of screen time and she spent it sharing feelings with Serena and giving her the tape package. Why do they refuse to utilize such a strong character and actress? 

Without June to piss around with, the Waterford’s would be in a whole other state. Losing their handmaid and her baby would have dropped them from status so fast, forget a mere demotion, they probably would have found themselves in some form of servitude, if lucky. 

I watch the inside the episode clips sometimes and seeing Miller drone on about the choices he makes is just unbearable. He really think he’s creating magic, his ego is so inflated. 

I feel as if the writers are determined to justify all the decisions they’ve made, especially keeping June in Gilead, and the story continually suffers from that and it’s just getting worse and worse.

[WTEngel]

The Checkov Gun of the episode is the satellite phone that the American placed in SJ’s handbag - the one with the note (paraphrasing) call me if you need anything...

I suspect part of the redemption plot might be for SJ to help get Hannah and June out of Gilead. She might be playing 3 dimensional chess - just a guess.

The satellite phone will come into play again, and I suspect it will be a big deal.

[tennisgurl]

Oh wow, I am so shocked that selfish treasonous asshole Serena...is being a selfish asshole that wants her daughter back in a country that wont even let her learn her ABCs because of her girl parts. I am so shocked! She is truly the patron saint of crocodile tears. And capped off by yet another "June glares defiantly at the camera" shot. Havent seen one of those in the last fives minutes!

On the plus side, I loved seeing Mark from the US government again, still smooth as ever, and sadly wistful about his home in Atlanta, and Luke telling Serena to fuck off was probably as much as I've ever liked Luke. And I continue to enjoy the Josephs, it helps that they remind me of the uncertainty of the first season, where you never knew who you could trust or what people were really thinking or what they're deal really was. We know so MUCH about the Waterfords and company now, that having some actual wild cards back in the mix again is super refreshing.  

[kittykat]

16 hours ago, Umbelina said:

That was just about a perfect episode!

The music tapes!  June finally recording!

I loved the scenes with Serena too, all of them.  Luke, for once, didn't annoy the hell out of me, I liked him!

The walking partner handmaid is not quite so devout as she seems, and she's thinking about the freedom of her own children.  June has a new possible buddy/co-conspirator. 

Spy guy is back!  Serena, you idiot, you ditched the guard, you should have stayed in Canada, and had your own baby.

I'm glad Luke knows the truth about Holly, that she is not Waterford's child.

I'm hoping the whole custody nonsense is a window into world debate, and more outside world politics.

Bite me.

Once again you and I are spirit animals because I loved EVERYTHING about this episode.  Easily the best of the season.  No unnecessary violence just bloodcurdling dread.  Aunt Lydia gave me shivers.

June and Luke actually both made smart moves.  This is probably the most I've ever liked Luke.  Him dressing down Serena was just everything and both Yvonne and O-T played that perfectly.

7 hours ago, maggiegil said:

June's walking partner must be the most fertile handmaid in Gilead. I'm really interested to hear more about her story, she seems like she has Stockholm Syndrome, I wonder what "offense" had her relegated to handmaid in the first place.

I was glad to learn OfMatthew was only playing the part.  I definitely want to learn more about her.  I think her being pregnant a fourth time is hitting her.  She keeps going through this process and doesn't keep any of the babies.  And there is a possibility she has pre-Gilead children.  I imagine the continued separations are affecting her as it would anyone.

I was worried a full Serena redemption arc was coming and coming it is not with that last scene and GOOD!  She is out of excuses.  I'm glad we didn't end with a June smirk and got a June YOU GONNA DIE face.  I really hope this is the last time she ever trusts Serena again.  This is exactly why June said no the first time it was requested, she knew Serena would change her mind the moment she saw Nicole and BINGO!  Not that June ever really had a chance to say no, decisions in Gilead for women are an illusion.

Glad we peeled back another layer of Mrs. L.  Ditch Serena and cozy up to this one June.  Clearly the Lawrences as allies are more useful as the hopeless Waterfords.

Luke knowing Nick is (hopefully) the father is going to be key in how this goes forward.  As I said last week it's looking like a paternity test is forthcoming.

7 hours ago, maggiegil said:

Did anyone else notice that the cargo plane was full of goods on the way back, does that mean Canada is still trading with Gilead?

In the boardroom scene they did say that they had to tread lightly on the Nicole situation because of their trade agreement.  So yeah it would appear so which, WTF Canada.

[ChefLadyperson]

Yes, yes. This episode was so very annoying. So maybe it's not surprising that the mystery I am most eager to solve is WTF was in those jars in front of June and OfMatthew? Pickled vegetables, pig's feet, body parts? So confused. 

[BrindaWalsh]

I thought June congratulating her walking partner on her pregnancy was a shout out to the fact that she must have had a baby pre-Gilead (the proof of fertility), unless she said in an earlier episode that she had already had one Gilead baby?  

Put me in the camp of those who liked this episode.  I got to the end and realized I had been holding my breath for a lot of it - it has been a whole since I've done that.  Although I yelled at the TV when Serena joined the commanders in a vneck blazer and showing some leg.  I don't care if it is the right shade of blue.  Just, no.

What was in Serena's bag?  A note from the American agent?  Do we get to see what it says?  Was the tape in the jewelery box or did Serena give it to the agent who then passed it on to Luke?  And what was with the offer of treason and coconuts.  I remember the episode of course.  But if America really wants her, shouldnt the enticement finally  be "a pardon and coconuts"?  Serena isn't leaving Gilead just to face the death penalty.  They should know that by now.

[Stiggs]

17 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Serena delivered the tape for June.  That was what the "owe" thing was.

People are complex, and I appreciate that this show isn't doing cookie cutter villains.  No one is perfect, and no one is completely evil.  Those things rarely exist in real life, so why should they exist on the show?

They do love their close ups though, and there were plenty to go around, Luke, Serena, Fred, June, hell even Holly got a few.

I wonder if Joseph and his wife are making progress back to some kind of relationship, listening to music together?

This idiotic custody battle could work as well.  At least we should see more politics, and hopefully, Canada will soon cease to be the only other country we know anything about.

I always appreciate your insights. I read your posts and nod repeatedly. 🙂 

I am also hoping all of this leads to a bigger window into the outside world. It’s such odd, uncharted territory. 

[kittykat]

5 minutes ago, BrindaWalsh said:

I thought June congratulating her walking partner on her pregnancy was a shout out to the fact that she must have had a baby pre-Gilead (the proof of fertility), unless she said in an earlier episode that she had already had one Gilead baby?  

Put me in the camp of those who liked this episode.  I got to the end and realized I had been holding my breath for a lot of it - it has been a whole since I've done that.  Although I yelled at the TV when Serena joined the commanders in a vneck blazer and showing some leg.  I don't care if it is the right shade of blue.  Just, no.

What was in Serena's bag?  A note from the American agent?  Do we get to see what it says?  Was the tape in the jewelery box or did Serena give it to the agent who then passed it on to Luke?  And what was with the offer of treason and coconuts.  I remember the episode of course.  But if America really wants her, shouldnt the enticement finally  be "a pardon and coconuts"?  Serena isn't leaving Gilead just to face the death penalty.  They should know that by now.

OfMatthew had stated in the last episode that she has had three children since Gilead's existence.  I'm not sure how much time has passed.   Going by Hannah's age I'm guessing Gilead has been in full force about 6-7 years now.

Truello put a satellite phone in Serena's purse.  I don't think she would face the death penalty.  I'm pretty sure her cooperation with Canada involved immunity.

[tennisgurl]

I’m really hoping that they start calling the baby Holly now instead of Nicole. I would much rather she be named after her badass grandma, the name her mother wanted to give her, and not the name the crazy treason lady who’s imprinted on her wanted. 

[Joana]

So this was version 1732 of "Serena almost has a change of heart and does the right thing, but in the end she doesn't. Maybe next time!" SMH. If they really want to put her in an redemption arc of whatever sort, they really need to get on with it now. Actually, not now, more like 5 episodes ago. That she was willing to give up the baby she obsessed over so much so she could have a normal life should have been a major breakthrough for her and they should have taken it from there, but now she's completely reverted to her old ways. And June is also responsible for that for indulging her in her delusions about motherhood. "Only a mother could do what you did blah blah blah". Gurl, please.

For once, Luke was the MVP of the episode. He had a lot happen to him and managed to take it fairly well (and in a realistic way) without completely falling apart. It didn't bother me that he let Serena hold the baby. I didn't take it as a sign of any sympathy for her, more like a response to her not so thinly veiled threat - she made it clear that she still has power over June and it was reasonable not to agitate her any further. It's also great to see that he and Moira have such a strong bond now and I'd love to see more of them together.

I laughed when Aunt Lydia told June that "there would be consequences". When are there ever consequences for anyone on this show. Literally every single major character should have been dead by now, from June to Emily to Janine to Nick to the Waterfords, and hell, even Aunt Lydia herself. If she was so fortunate to miraculously survive being stabbed, savagely beaten and kicked down the stairs, she should have been stripped of her duties and sent to the colonies for doing a piss-poor job with her handmaids, with all the shenanigans they've pulled. 

[Riplet68]

I’m going to hold on to that Serena isn’t really trying to get holly back.  She told Luke that she wanted holly out so she could have a better life.  She gave Luke the package, she hid the phone.  Her angst is understandable also. She can’t have children biologically.  She is basically the one who came up with the handmaid idea (stated before that cdr Waterford was the main force behind the handmaids, at least in the book-so, Serena).  Everything she did to help get Gilead  up and running was to help her get a kid.

i don’t like that they’ve stopped punishing Handmaids- at least that we’ve seen.  I mean, I don’t like that they do that, but it was such a large part of the story.That dread of something terrible happening was part of the draw of the show.  It might just be Joseph is protecting her.  And Janine did get beat, but June jumping  in and telling Lydia no would have got her beat too.  I’m also not enjoying the cinematography choices.  Gonna stick with it and see how it pans out

[Joana]

Also, I call BS on Gilead not being able to locate the baby without that extremely convenient TV footage. So they apparently have no problem getting full access to Holly's full medical information and Luke's employment history and even church records, but they wouldn't be able to figure out in advance that the baby would very likely end up with him and monitor him? Suuuuure. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Joana

[Quickbeam]

I really liked this episode, mostly because of Yvonne’s acting. She really made me feel the conflict. It’s a messy narrative. I did miss Emily. A lot. 

[Eureka]

I was happy to see some elements of the epilogue in this episode. It’s my favorite part of the book and at this point I’ve been wondering if they’ve gone so far afield that they won’t be able to use much of it when the time comes.

[UNOSEZ]

Who keeps telling the writers and showrunners that ppl are out here wanting to see Serena feel bad about the horror movie bizzarro world she helped create

[AnswersWanted]

6 minutes ago, Joana said:

Also, I call BS on Gilead not being able to locate the baby without that extremely convenient TV footage. So they apparently have no problem getting full access to Holly's full medical information and Luke's employment history and even church records, but they wouldn't be able to figure out in advance that the baby would very likely end up with him and monitor him? Suuuuure. 

I think the show is setting up this angle that Gilead is in regular communication with Canada, and so it can be assumed that it was Canada who released Luke and Holly’s info to them. 

Of course that makes shit all sense because Luke is a refugee and they know tor a fact Holly is a child conceived through systematic rape, why on earth would the Canadian authorities give Gilead any information about them considering they are supposed to be under protected status.

Of course this could be tied to some deal being crafted between both nations, but if Canada is willing to compromise the safety and well-being of the very refugees they’ve taken in and who all believe they are now safe and protected, Canada can get the fuck out of here. 

Even if they wanted to say somehow the information was smuggled out of Canada, that should have taken them days, at best. The timeline makes no sense and that video should not have even been necessary.

With the birth rate so low, any acknowledgement of a child on a refugee list would immediately be flagged. A baby girl supposedly pops up on the Gilead refugee list at the exact same time the newest born baby girl in Gilead was taken? And nobody in the Gilead network caught on until just recently? Let me guess, reasons again?

The show even made sure to highlight the fertility crisis in this episode, when Luke was out buying things for Holly, pampers I think, and he commented on the high cost and the clerk replied that they aren’t suppliers most people need anymore. Babies are super rare, so therefore easily tracked. 

They should have found Holly in mere days in the Canadian network, they knew Emily managed to escape with her after all. Even the resistance got the word out to June in episode one, letting her know they were safe. 

It’s ridiculous whichever way they want to spin it. It’s all pure plot convenience.

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, ChefLadyperson said:

Yes, yes. This episode was so very annoying. So maybe it's not surprising that the mystery I am most eager to solve is WTF was in those jars in front of June and OfMatthew? Pickled vegetables, pig's feet, body parts? So confused. 

I know! How are we not talking about the elephant in the jar?? 

When June's waking partner said she was late, she looked dead inside.  

June goes in to the Lawrence's basement, finds the tapes in the box and finds a tape player...with working batteries! 

The surreal stage set with June in a stylish new outfit, (Handmaids couture), Fred and SJ looking forlorn, Canada has got to scratching their heads and awkwardly laughing at the odd Ozzie and Harriet couple talking about how their child was kidnapped.  All the while the refuge's are watching and wondering what has happened to their loved ones, what brutality have they endured?  Where are their children? How many loved ones have died or living a horrible existence but those two want to get their baby back, a baby that is being cared for and loved, no brutality.

This episode was much better than the last but June still sneers and lurks in doorways.  

[Catfi9ht]

39 minutes ago, Joana said:

Also, I call BS on Gilead not being able to locate the baby without that extremely convenient TV footage. So they apparently have no problem getting full access to Holly's full medical information and Luke's employment history and even church records, but they wouldn't be able to figure out in advance that the baby would very likely end up with him and monitor him? Suuuuure. 

We only got a quick glance at the file but it looked like parts were redacted. As a double check, I fast forwarded to that scene and paused it and either the form has alot of really black, heavy lines or it's redacted.

Since Canada is trading goods with Gilead, it makes sense they would also trade traces of information provided it doesn't put refugees in danger. It's a fairly common government practice currently so that scene was fairly realistic to me.

About the episode at large, I think this was the first time I had an emotional response to a Luke plot. This episode was a good one for me because I gained a new appreciation for a character and his reaction after June's call and while listening to her recording got me to care about a character that I usually didn't like. 

I'll also echo the sentiments about zooming in on June's face with her pissed off look as a closure to an episode. It's done so frequently it's lost its resonance and now it's just lazy fucking writing and directing.

Overall though, I agree this was the best episode so far this season. I'm interested in how the propaganda video plot unfolds this season. Gilead using propaganda to assert their agenda and try to gain legitimacy with other countries could be very interesting.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Quote

These close-ups on June's face with the dumb rage-ey expressions are completely meaningless now. And the way they did it during the propaganda video like that is kind of breaking the fourth wall and what little immersion I had left was totally gone.

These moments I just have a visceral urge to punch June in the throat although I don't think that is the reaction they were going for.

I do like the Lawrences though. I like Whitford's cynical take on things and how he calls June out on her bullshit. And his wife seems like a good woman who cannot bear the world her husband has helped bring about.

Fred has no idea that he isn't the father so his ploy to claim paternity is misguided. However if June or Serena admits that it is Nick then they are in deep shit considering their powerlessness in that world.  I have no idea what they are going to do. The fact that June (who I now hate) has any part in this plot or series dampens my pleasure in seeing how it plays out. She is the primary problem with this series for me.  I almost hate Elizabeth Moss now. God.

[tennisgurl]

8 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I know! How are we not talking about the elephant in the jar?? 

Hehehe, instead of saying "ignoring the elephant in the room" I am going to say "ignoring the elephant in the jar." 

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, Riplet68 said:

 She can’t have children biologically.  She is basically the one who came up with the handmaid idea (stated before that cdr Waterford was the main force behind the handmaids, at least in the book-so, Serena).  Everything she did to help get Gilead  up and running was to help her get a kid.

TV Serena can have kids.  That was established last season.  It's Freddie that's shooting blanks. 

21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Spy guy is back!  Serena, you idiot, you ditched the guard, you should have stayed in Canada, and had your own baby.

Agreed 100%.   At this point I don't think she in love with Fred.  She has more options than say wife Putman or wife Mackenzie.  All SJ wants is a baby.  Seriously, she could have traded her intel for Gilead for the chance to have one.  Idiot.

[Joana]

25 minutes ago, Catfi9ht said:

Since Canada is trading goods with Gilead, it makes sense they would also trade traces of information provided it doesn't put refugees in danger. It's a fairly common government practice currently so that scene was fairly realistic to me.

I also found that scene realistic because I actually fully expect them to be able to get info on the refugees, through their spies or some shady deal with the Canadian government, or a combination of the two. What I don't think is realistic is that they wouldn't have their own people in Canada monitoring Luke from the moment the word got out that Emily had taken off with the baby, as it was a very logical assumption that she'd eventually hand the baby over to him. That they had to rely on a lucky break with the occurrence of a random video of a man (who they were able to identify immediately, so there you go!) holding a baby is simply laughable. As AnwersWanted pointed out, it's nothing but a plot contrivance.

And it's also a part of a bigger problem with the show never being quite sure what Gilead's relationship with the modern technologies is. So they use the Internet, drones and... facial recognition software (?), but not tracking devices. Mkay. Of course, if they used those, June wouldn't have been able to escape 30 times by now. 

[Catfi9ht]

3 minutes ago, Joana said:

I also found that scene realistic because I actually fully expect them to be able to get info on the refugees, through their spies or some shady deal with the Canadian government, or a combination of the two. What I don't think is realistic is that they wouldn't have their own people in Canada monitoring Luke from the moment the word got out that Emily had taken off with the baby, as it was a very logical assumption that she'd eventually hand the baby over to him. That they had to rely on a lucky break with the occurrence of a random video of a man (who they were able to identify immediately, so there you go!) holding a baby is simply laughable. As AnwersWanted pointed out, it's nothing but a plot contrivance.

And it's also a part of a bigger problem with the show never being quite sure what Gilead's relationship with the modern technologies is. So they use the Internet, drones and... facial recognition software (?), but not tracking devices. Mkay. Of course, if they used those, June wouldn't have been able to escape 30 times by now. 

As a group, I think we've estimated that Gilead is between five and ten years old. As a country, they're not mature enough to handle their own uprisings internally, and I don't think they even have the numbers necessary to maintain their government longterm. Strategically, it makes sense they wouldn't use their dwindling numbers to form a spy network in a foreign country which would give the spies access to greater freedom and potentially tempt them to defect. Finally since the main tactic of the government is control at all costs, I don't believe they'd be willing to give up that control by having citizens as spies in a foreign country on a potentially long leash. I think they would view it as too great a risk.

I'm with the folks who think Luke went to that protest intentionally with the hope it got back to June to let her know the baby is okay so it doesn't seem like a stretch to me.

[lavenderblue]

25 minutes ago, greekmom said:

TV Serena can have kids.  That was established last season.  It's Freddie that's shooting blanks. 

Agreed 100%.   At this point I don't think she in love with Fred.  She has more options than say wife Putman or wife Mackenzie.  All SJ wants is a baby.  Seriously, she could have traded her intel for Gilead for the chance to have one.  Idiot.

I'm struggling with this plot element at this point. What is keeping Serena in Gilead? She hates Fred. She hates the world she helped create. Doesn't seem to like her friends much. Nichole/Holly is not a particularly logical reason to stay, nor was it the reason she again rejected Tuello's offer since, at that point, she'd seemed ready to give up on that fight. While it's a bit psychologically interesting to think maybe on some level she wants to punish herself and wallow in misery, it's not coming across well in the narrative given the one tiptoe forward/two gigantic steps back approach, nor is it entertaining unless there's some forward action soon.

[BrindaWalsh]

I'm rewatching and just paid attention to the discussion with the commanders as Serena Joy enters their meeting - with one saying that Gilead is powerless without an extradition treaty.

So Nicole is going to be the pawn to force relations between Gilead and Canada?  Normalize them as a legitimate nation?  Restore the Waterfords to their original stature in Gilead?  And what would an extradition treaty mean for the refugees in Canada (legit question from an international politics standpoint)?

Sorry if everybody caught this the first round, it just jumped out at me.

Serena is staying in Gilead because they havent given her a reason to leave.  She pointed out very clearly last season that the offer for her to leave was simply trying to convince her to commit treason against Gilead.  There was no offer of a pardon or immunity.  Serena Joy was an architect in this regime.  Sure, she knows plenty. But she's already committed treason against America.  

She is correct that she has no other home but Gilead. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by BrindaWalsh

[rubinia]

1 hour ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Fred has no idea that he isn't the father so his ploy to claim paternity is misguided. However if June or Serena admits that it is Nick then they are in deep shit considering their powerlessness in that world.

I thought Serena told Fred that Nick was the father, and even named the baby Nicole as a further dig.

[chaifan]

A few things I half expected to see/wanted to see/episode would have been better if seen:

1.  June negotiating some sort of insurance policy for her safety, Nicole's, Luke's, etc., instead of just taking Waterford's word (or was it Lawrence's? I couldn't tell).  A handwritten statement by Waterford that would be delivered to Luke, or something of the sort.  Although there was no way to guarantee Luke would get it.

2. Truello getting some sort of leverage over Serena while she was there.  Perhaps a video of her admitting she has no right to Nicole.  Or, if she wouldn't go for that, at least video of her and Luke's interaction.  If she goes back on her word, he sends the tape to Gilead and she ends up on the wall.

3.  Truello facilitating the faking of Serena's death - the plane blowing up upon takeoff, or something like that - allowing Serena to stay in Canada and turn against Gilead.  I know, people are vehemently against her getting a "redemption arc", but I think it would make an interesting story, and would allow for more non-Gilead screen time. 

Overall, I liked this episode.  It moved plot forward in a couple of directions, including a snippet of the true Ofmatthew, and a few full sentences from Mrs. Lawrence.  More, please!  And the baby scenes were really well done, especially since it really was a live baby in (I think) all of the shots.

I think Serena's true motivation at the end is ambiguous.  And Fred would have to realize that any real push to get Nicole back would result in a DNA test, which would reveal he is not the father.  (Which he knows.)  So, was the end scene theater that Fred & Serena orchestrated?  Or were they forced into it by those who don't know their involvement in all of this, and they had to play along, too?  When Serena got off the plane she said "It's over", and Fred replied "It doesn't have to be."  That could mean just about anything.  I want to believe Fred had something else in mind.

On a total different note, the continuity editors were asleep at the wheel on this episode.  First, one of the later scenes has Comm. & Mrs. Lawrence listening to the mix tape, with "You make me feel like dancing".  But this scene is placed at least during, if not after, Serena's trip, and June used that tape to tape her message to Luke.  Also, when Serena gets off the plane in Canada, there is a light flurry, but no snow on the ground, even in the far background.  When Luke is walking and listening to the tape, there's a lot of snow in the background. 

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I really liked this episode, mostly because of Yvonne’s acting. She really made me feel the conflict. It’s a messy narrative. I did miss Emily. A lot. 

The same for me. It's Yvonne's acting that I appreciate out of the role. 

[brillia79]

3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Who keeps telling the writers and showrunners that ppl are out here wanting to see Serena feel bad about the horror movie bizzarro world she helped create

Right? Fuck her! She’s as much a monster, murderer, kidnapper, abuser and rapist as her husband or any of the other commanders! Her regret is that she wasn’t exceptional and got locked into the subservience she planned for other women.

She has done nothing to earn sympathy or redemption.

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

These moments I just have a visceral urge to punch June in the throat although I don't think that is the reaction they were going for.

I do like the Lawrences though. I like Whitford's cynical take on things and how he calls June out on her bullshit. And his wife seems like a good woman who cannot bear the world her husband has helped bring about.

Fred has no idea that he isn't the father so his ploy to claim paternity is misguided. However if June or Serena admits that it is Nick then they are in deep shit considering their powerlessness in that world.  I have no idea what they are going to do. The fact that June (who I now hate) has any part in this plot or series dampens my pleasure in seeing how it plays out. She is the primary problem with this series for me.  I almost hate Elizabeth Moss now. God.

3 hours ago, rubinia said:

I thought Serena told Fred that Nick was the father, and even named the baby Nicole as a further dig.

Yeah, Serena told Fred, and then June told Fred.  Fred definitely knows.  I think he suspects, but has not been told, Nick is the father.  (*Remember he probably knows about the helpful doctor impregnating handmaids.)

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

A few things I half expected to see/wanted to see/episode would have been better if seen:

1.  June negotiating some sort of insurance policy for her safety, Nicole's, Luke's, etc., instead of just taking Waterford's word (or was it Lawrence's? I couldn't tell).  A handwritten statement by Waterford that would be delivered to Luke, or something of the sort.  Although there was no way to guarantee Luke would get it.

2. Truello getting some sort of leverage over Serena while she was there.  Perhaps a video of her admitting she has no right to Nicole.  Or, if she wouldn't go for that, at least video of her and Luke's interaction.  If she goes back on her word, he sends the tape to Gilead and she ends up on the wall.

3.  Truello facilitating the faking of Serena's death - the plane blowing up upon takeoff, or something like that - allowing Serena to stay in Canada and turn against Gilead.  I know, people are vehemently against her getting a "redemption arc", but I think it would make an interesting story, and would allow for more non-Gilead screen time. 

Overall, I liked this episode.  It moved plot forward in a couple of directions, including a snippet of the true Ofmatthew, and a few full sentences from Mrs. Lawrence.  More, please!  And the baby scenes were really well done, especially since it really was a live baby in (I think) all of the shots.

I think Serena's true motivation at the end is ambiguous.  And Fred would have to realize that any real push to get Nicole back would result in a DNA test, which would reveal he is not the father.  (Which he knows.)  So, was the end scene theater that Fred & Serena orchestrated?  Or were they forced into it by those who don't know their involvement in all of this, and they had to play along, too?  When Serena got off the plane she said "It's over", and Fred replied "It doesn't have to be."  That could mean just about anything.  I want to believe Fred had something else in mind.

On a total different note, the continuity editors were asleep at the wheel on this episode.  First, one of the later scenes has Comm. & Mrs. Lawrence listening to the mix tape, with "You make me feel like dancing".  But this scene is placed at least during, if not after, Serena's trip, and June used that tape to tape her message to Luke.  Also, when Serena gets off the plane in Canada, there is a light flurry, but no snow on the ground, even in the far background.  When Luke is walking and listening to the tape, there's a lot of snow in the background. 

The Lawrences were listening to "Cruel to be Kind" by Nick Lowe.

[Armchair Critic]

June is looking rough lately and to me she looks older than the other handmaids. I know they have to keep her in the mix for the storyline, but it would be more realistic that she would be sent to the colonies by now.

[ChattyCathyLA]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:05 PM, rideashire said:

Serena had a perfectly fine "goodbye" when she sent the baby off to Canada in the first place. Her continuing obsession reminds me of people who break up and then continue to stalk their ex's social media. There's no closure, she refuses to move on, it's ridiculous. If she wanted the baby with her so badly she never would have sent her away, but she did, accept it and stop stalking the poor girl. She's got that better life you wanted.

June asking for Serena to owe her...sure. Like that's actually going to work out in her favor. Doesn't she know by now she can't trust these people? 

No Emily was disappointing. 

I like Lawrence's wife, and I like him, too. I can't help it. 

 So, I’m like screaming at the screen “noooooo”, Serena is gonna screw you over!  After all that’s happened, I can’t believe that June would be so damn stupid!  It’s completely out of character for her to trust any of these people!  Has she learned NOTHING??  UGH!  When the men at their stupid meeting said they would get the baby back by any means necessary (not an exact quote), I knew something was up.  I’m worried that the council is gonna smuggle some men into Canada to steal the baby back!  

Maybe June should ask Serena if she wants Nicole to have her finger chopped off by the council for daring to READ when she grows up?  STUPID WOMEN!  They have all learned nothing!  Not Serena, not June — no one!  

And, when did Serena slip Luke that mix tape anyway?  I didn’t see her give it to him, unless it was in the box that held the locket??  Anyone see how he got that?  I didn’t even see Serena open that parcel that said something like “if you need me”. I must have blinked and missed it.

[Baltimore Betty]

Head slap at 4:30am today, the tape that June made for Luke sets up the end of the book, (I will not write what happened at the end just in case someone does not know) so it makes sense.  

Also, June telling Serena Joy she wants her to owe her...June has forgotten that this is the same woman that smacked her around, took her to Hanna only to let June watch her from afar (locked in a sound proof car), treated her like a dog offering her a cookie when they were at a reception for a birth (season 1) and well basically fucked June and every other woman over when she came up with this shitty idea of an existence for women.  So yes, by all means June make this deal with the devil, what could possibly go wrong?

That Canadian guy that brokered the deal for SJ to see the baby, he just will not stop trying to get to SJ...sneaky and I like it! 

I bet that phone winds up in June's hand where she will stand in a doorway where all the big wigs are gathered and slowly dial Luke's number, talk loudly and slowly about all the secret stuff, giving names, etc...lol!

[alexvillage]

8 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I do like the Lawrences though. I like Whitford's cynical take on things and how he calls June out on her bullshit. 

But then the writers don't do anything with him. It is like he is there to make us smirk at his one-liners.

7 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

And what would an extradition treaty mean for the refugees in Canada (legit question from an international politics standpoint)?

If Canada offers refuge, there is not extradition. Extradition is for crimes and a refugee is not a criminal. We saw Canadian officer asking Emily if she was seeking refuge, so that would be another writer's mess up - therefore totally possible. But Canada can have their shady people too, people who support Gilead's cult.  As an example, wha tis happening now to Assange and the UK courts: in theory, the UK will not extradite anyone for political reasons. The United States is charging Assange for espionage, chichis political. Yet, some people in the UK are in total favor to ignore the extradition terms and send Assange to his death. So, nothing is certain anymore.

[Trillian]

Count me among those who didn’t like the episode. I am so frustrated with the nonsensical plot lines these writers seem to just pull out of the air without any thought to reality.

There seems to have been no thought given to the notion of diplomatic relations  beyond “we don’t have an extradition treaty”.  Do you have any treaty?  Does Canada recognize Gilead as a sovereign nation?  If no, then these appeals from Gilead are useless. If yes, why isn’t there an ambassador making a formal request of the Canadian government?  Other than, yeah, plot.

How does Serena get into the country? Canada’s not going to let just any plane with just anybody in.  Serena’s already been thrown out of the country once - how does Canada just let her waltz back in?

Why would Gilead let Serena go in the first place when she’s shown shaky loyalty to the regime? All she had to do, once on Canadian soil, is hold up her mutilated hand and declare “I face torture and persecution on account of my sex and I seek asylum in Canada” and the Canadian border authorities who should have been there at the airport would take her in (at least temporarily, until her refugee status was resolved). Gilead took a huge public relations risk.

Speaking of public relations, why does Gilead even have public relations as a totalitarian regime?  Realistically, they wouldn’t advertise that a handmaid escaped with a baby - they wouldn’t want to give others hope of escape.  The realistic public statement would’ve been that Emily was shot while trying to escape and the baby was a tragic casualty of her criminality.  Really, Holly/Nicole is not the future of the Gileadean race.  She’s not worth risking a whole regime over.

I hope that broadcast at the end wasn’t live as it appeared to be.  June should’ve been beaten to within an inch of her life for that sneer on video (as many viewers want to do).  Oh yeah, as Aunt Lydia says, there really aren’t any consequences.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Trillian
Grammar

[Anela]

I don't want to beat June, I just know that it's what would happen in that world. That's what would have happened in the first season. 

[alexvillage]

29 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Count me among those who didn’t like the episode. I am so frustrated with the nonsensical plot lines these writers seem to just pull out of the air without any thought to reality.

There seems to have been no thought given to the notion of diplomatic relations  beyond “we don’t have an extradition treaty”.  Do you have any treaty?  Does Canada recognize Gilead as a sovereign nation?  If no, then these appeals from Gilead are useless. If yes, why isn’t there an ambassador making a formal request of the Canadian government?  Other than, yeah, plot.

How does Serena get into the country? Canada’s not going to let just any plane with just anybody in.  Serena’s already been thrown out of the country once - how does Canada just let her waltz back in?

Why would Gilead let Serena go in the first place when she’s shown shaky loyalty to the regime? All she had to do, once on Canadian soil, is hold up her mutilated hand and declare “I face torture and persecution on account of my sex and I seek asylum in Canada” and the Canadian border authorities who should have been there at the airport would take her in (at least temporarily, until her refugee status was resolved). Gilead took a huge public relations risk.

Speaking of public relations, why does Gilead even have public relations as a totalitarian regime?  Realistically, they wouldn’t advertise that a handmaid escaped with a baby - they wouldn’t want to give others hope of escape.  The realistic public statement would’ve been that Emily was shot while trying to escape and the baby was a tragic casualty of her criminality.  Really, Holly/Nicole is not the future of the Gileadean race.  She’s not worth risking a whole regime over.

I hope that broadcast at the end wasn’t live as it appeared to be.  June should’ve been beaten to within an inch of her life for that sneer on video (as many viewers want to do).  Oh yeah, as Aunt Lydia says, there really aren’t any consequences.

Agree with all you said. Margaret Atwood wrote a dystopian novel and left a lot of questions unanswered - which I think is part of the book's appeal. Then the writers come in and completely "raped" the book. They could have done a good job, being thoughtful and thinking things over, developing plausible plots that would be consistent with the book. Instead, they decided to rush through things because they wanted to: Achieve fame? Make money? Annoy the viewers? Inflate their own ego? Who knows? The result sucks.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

All she had to do, once on Canadian soil, is hold up her mutilated hand and declare “I face torture and persecution on account of my sex and I seek asylum in Canada”

Exactly! 

They are making Nicole/Holly out to be like that little boy from Cuba (25 years ago or so), that became an international incident and eventually went back to Cuba.  I don't think that SJ really wants Nicole to be returned to her, I think she might be playing along in the outrage and sadness.

I know SJ keeps returning to Gilead but I also notice she was not hating that mysteriously a phone was in her bag.  

[Anela]

6 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Exactly! 

They are making Nicole/Holly out to be like that little boy from Cuba (25 years ago or so), that became an international incident and eventually went back to Cuba.  I don't think that SJ really wants Nicole to be returned to her, I think she might be playing along in the outrage and sadness.

I was going to say the same thing, after watching it a few hours ago. I wondered if she was just playing along, because she had no choice (being a woman in Gilead). I guess we'll find out.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Anela

[sadie]

So Giliad is a country that is knowingly raping and imprisoning women, sending them to work in nuclear fields and yet everyone acts like a video of those rapists with their “prisoner” June standing behind them, eyes down, all red costumed up and we’re supposed to believe this would have any impact beyond the walls of Giliad. Are we the viewers supposed to watch this and think “oh no, Canada is going to send this baby back because her non biological rapist parents are asking”? Huh? This is where I’m most lost, can we please get some insight into the workings in Canada, a discussion, a meeting of the forces in power, to explain WTF? Isn’t this akin to us sending a prisoner from N Korea back to them along with a plane full of groceries? Maybe I’m too stupid to watch this show but it makes zero sense to me at this point. 

[alexvillage]

2 minutes ago, sadie said:

So Giliad is a country that is knowingly raping and imprisoning women, sending them to work in nuclear fields and yet everyone acts like a video of those rapists with their “prisoner” June standing behind them, eyes down, all red costumed up and we’re supposed to believe this would have any impact beyond the walls of Giliad. Are we the viewers supposed to watch this and think “oh no, Canada is going to send this baby back because her non biological rapist parents are asking”? Huh? This is where I’m most lost, can we please get some insight into the workings in Canada, a discussion, a meeting of the forces in power, to explain WTF? Isn’t this akin to us sending a prisoner from N Korea back to them along with a plane full of groceries? Maybe I’m too stupid to watch this show but it makes zero sense to me at this point. 

You are right on your points but at the same time, that part made sense to me. Gilead is a place of cultists, they do believe others will see them as they see themselves. They are self righteous, god has their back. 

Another take would be to compare the world's current situation: the biggest superpower in the world normalizing terrible treatment of refugees, other countries following on the same footsteps, if not openly, behind the scenes; a country that is ruled by monarchs openly decapitating dissenters, beating women and still having a pass everywhere. Seriously, which country has even condemned Saudi Arabia about their abuses, their prince ordering the murder and dismemberment of a journalist, women being stoned for daring to speak up? I don't know of any sanctions from any country against that regime. I could go on and on. This shit happens. Canada being silent and complying to demands to a place like Gilead would not even be dystopia anymore.

[SuzieSioux]

14 hours ago, ChefLadyperson said:

Yes, yes. This episode was so very annoying. So maybe it's not surprising that the mystery I am most eager to solve is WTF was in those jars in front of June and OfMatthew? Pickled vegetables, pig's feet, body parts? So confused. 

Oh god, I know, that was so gross and at our viewing party we spent too much time wondering about the jars as opposed to listening to the conversation we were meant to be taking in 😂.

47 minutes ago, sadie said:

Isn’t this akin to us sending a prisoner from N Korea back to them along with a plane full of groceries?

I too agree with your points, they need to explain this much better. But just to add a real life situation that you made me think of: Koreans who escape the North into China face being sent back by the Chinese, and have to sneak themselves all the way down to southeast Asia and then get across to South Korea to be safe. So this horrible real life situation may end up being an inspiration for the show with the dealing of refugees by Canada as time goes on?

I dunno, we were talking about this tonight, and I honestly think this show could've knocked it out of the park by tackling a different major character each season. Think of if June gets into the van at the end of season 1 and then we don't know what happens to her after that, instead Emily and her story becomes the focus of season 2, with more time exploring the colonies too. Little hints as to what happened to June may be periodically dispersed through the season. Maybe in sort of keeping in line with the book:

Spoiler

We could see some tapes found and June's story starting to be exposed outside of Gilead, though June's whereabouts are still unknown.

By the beginning of season 3, Emily has escaped and we are now focusing on the people around Hannah, or the Lawrences or anyone really. June could have appeared in Canada as a surprise at the end of one episode and her and Luke's efforts to draw attention to their still captive daughter could be sparking off all sorts of problem within Gilead. But June wouldn't be the focus of the season either. I dunno, these are just vague ideas, but I think there is so much more of the world to flesh out and so many interesting characters to do the same with.

[kelslamu]

The child belongs to neither you nor your freak husband!  She's that deluded and June expects her to "keep her word" that she owes her?  Seriously!  I thought Luke was going to get ran over while walking, but then the headphones came out.  Oh, and June stop staring at people in their private moments.  Your husband finally plays those tapes for you and you get an inkling of who he used to be only to see the "handmaid" staring at you both.  I'm not sure why I continue this.   Oh, and that Canadian guy knows Nicole wasn't kidnapped, but whatever right?

Edited June 20, 2019 by kelslamu

[kelslamu]

Wouldn't it be funny if they did dna and said Holly belonged with Nick now?