S03.E04: Foreign Bodies

[Kohola3]

Victoria faces the impact of cholera after Albert leaves for Cambridge.

[TVForever]

Dang, Skerritt. I should have seen it coming much sooner than I did. Wasn't that interested in their story, but it still made me sad for such a heartbreaking end.

[Kohola3]

1 minute ago, TVForever said:

Dang, Skerritt. I should have seen it coming much sooner than I did. Wasn't that interested in their story, but it still made me sad for such a heartbreaking end.

Man, that was heartbreaking.  So many died so young back then - she had such a short time of real happiness.  I wasn't that invested in their story, either, but did puddle up when she died.

[magdalene]

That was truly shocking. I wasn't at all expecting for Skerritt to be killed off. And like that. 

Wasn't it cholera that killed 

Spoiler

Albert? Or was it typhoid?

[chitowngirl]

2 minutes ago, magdalene said:

That was truly shocking. I wasn't at all expecting for Skerritt to be killed off. And like that. 

Wasn't it cholera that killed 

  Reveal hidden contents

Albert? Or was it typhoid?

Spoiler

Typhoid fever

[magdalene]

I should have stayed away from TV today. First the Superbowl did not go my way at all and now Victoria makes me all upset and weepy.

[voiceover]

I admit I peeked at IMDb's "number of episodes" for Nell Hudson, saw it was the same as Jenna's, and thought: No worries!

Poop.

I do so love the space the Francatelli created.  Like the first boutique hotel!  I wonder if we'll visit it again.

I thought Vicky handled the stammering doc's sitch quite well.  She can be such a bullying hothead that sometimes I just like to watch her be the Smartest Person in the Room.

Ernst watch: Still nichts. I so longed to see him, tonight especially, so I could run in here and snark: "He's scored more often than the Super Bowl teams!"  But, alas, it was not to be.

[Driad]

Article about Dr. Snow and the Broad Street pump.

[MadyGirl1987]

So sad! Just when Skerrit and Francatelli we’re getting their happy ending as well! I hope we see more of Francatelli and see that at least the hotel is a success. Let him have at least that. RIP Skerrit! If they can pull of such a heartbreaking death of a supporting character, I am scared of what they will do with Albert’s death. That is going to be devastating...

Joseph and the Duchess need to stay away from each other. That will not end well for either of them.

I definitely liked Palmerston better here when he is not being an obnoxious self-promoter or being a womanizing ladies man.

[milner]

I thought Palmerston didn’t marry until he was 50?  Anybody know?7

[Ohmo]

When I saw the preview for last week, I thought the chances were high that we'd lose someone.  I couldn't see Daisy bringing up a cholera epidemic and then not losing someone from it.  I'm sorry that it was Skerritt, although I knew it likely would be her.  Daisy couldn't really have done it to Feodora, and the Duchess of Whatever would have been unlikely.  I will miss Skerritt and Francatelli.  I don't know any spoilers or anything.  I'd just be surprised if we saw Francatelli again.

I'm glad that Palmerston was a key fixture in this episode.  We needed him because the episode was such a downer.

I did think that Victoria and Albert fighting by letter was sort of amusing.

ETA: Thought Dr. Snow was great.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Ohmo

[LittleIggy]

16 hours ago, Driad said:

Article about Dr. Snow and the Broad Street pump.

There is an excellent book “The Ghost Map” about how Dr. Snow discovered the source of the cholera and basically created medical epidemiology. I read it several years ago. Poor Skerritt. 😞I liked her.

For once I was on Albert’s side, championing science over biblical allegory.

The Duchess’ husband needs his ass kicked. 😡

16 hours ago, milner said:

I thought Palmerston didn’t marry until he was 50?  Anybody know?7

That’s true, but historically he should be around 64 years old not 40 like Laurence Fox. 😏

Edited February 4, 2019 by LittleIggy
Correcting an error of fact

[Brn2bwild]

Historically that cholera epidemic and John Snow's findings were about 5 years too early, but this was well done.

[LiveenLetLive]

Still trying to make Victoria into the demonstrably loving mother I see...LOL, so she visits Skerrett personally? yeah I believe that, also, Skerrett dies so of course V&A hit the sack ASAP.

[MJ Frog]

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Joseph and the Duchess need to stay away from each other. That will not end well for either of them.

Honestly, if he really wants to help her, the best thing Joseph could do for her would be to murder her husband. He'd hang for it, of course, but that is the only thing he could do that would make her life better. An affair, or even the suspicion of an affair, would destroy the both of them. Plus, overthrowing the social order and killing that bastard would feel really good. For a minute.

Nice to see a cameo by Mary (Lucy Briers) from Pride and Prejudice as the apothecary.

Edited February 4, 2019 by MJ Frog
More words to make it gooder.

[Quilt Fairy]

Well, shit. Based on the previews for last week's episode, I was convinced Skerrett was going to die last week rescuing Victoria from drowning.  Then that turned out to be a big nothing, and I thought, OK, she'll get her HEA ending.  This week, I thought the worst that would happen was that she got the wrong "tonic" and lost the baby. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Quilt Fairy

[twoods]

I’m pissed that an article in my feed had the title stating that Skeritt has died and ruined this episode for me. Why do articles allow this to happen? I was looking forward to watching this tomorrow and now I don’t want to get all sad and weepy. Poor Francatelli.

That actor that plays Palmerston has amazing chemistry with every female he is paired up with. His character is so skeezy but I can’t help enjoying every second he is onscreen.

[magdalene]

Why couldn't the nasty duke have died from the cholera? I would have liked that.

[calguy]

3 hours ago, milner said:

I thought Palmerston didn’t marry until he was 50?  Anybody know?7

At this point Palmerston would have been at least 64.

[floridamom]

They killed off Skerritt? I haven't watched the episode yet. This is total fantasy. The real Miss Skerritt didn't marry and lived a long life; she didn't die in service to the Queen. Why are they fictionalizing so much of this? I'm not too happy with the that. I would have liked to watch a historically accurate series on Queen Victoria myself. This, is too much to fake IMO.

[nora1992]

1 minute ago, floridamom said:

 This, is too much to fake IMO.

Perfect summary for this entire season!  If you’re going to rewrite history, then bring back Lord M! 

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

I would have liked to watch a historically accurate series on Queen Victoria myself.

It has been clear, pretty much from the get-go, that this is a soap opera version of Vicky and Albert. So I guess we need to just put aside any thoughts of accuracy and just enjoy it for the costumes and palaces and juicy stories.

And why did they have to make Skerrett pregnant on top of everything else?  Poor Francatelli. I don't suppose there is any reason to revisit him now unless they take him back at the palace.  That hotel looked beautiful but will anyone want to eat there knowing someone died there?

[Capricasix]

6 hours ago, twoods said:

That actor that plays Palmerston has amazing chemistry with every female he is paired up with. His character is so skeezy but I can’t help enjoying every second he is onscreen.

I like him too, cad that he is 😄

The actor, Laurence Fox, used to be married to Billie Piper.

[BusyOctober]

I know the 19th century was an age of technological inventions, scientific advances and social reforms, but I never knew the Cholera issue was investigated, mapped, and resolved in 48 hours!  Way to go, efficient Victorians! 

[Kohola3]

Interesting article on Dr. Snow.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I did think that Victoria and Albert fighting by letter was sort of amusing.

Same here. That was a lot more interesting to me than Joseph trying to fight the duchess's battles for her. Dude, you're never going to win that one.

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

For once I was on Albert’s side, championing science over biblical allegory.

Albert is often right, but he's often so annoying about making his point that I'm not surprised people are unhappy with him. He also needs to learn how to read the room better. He could have presented his ideas at Cambridge without making it sound as if Cambridge had its head up its butt for 600 years. (It may have, but you don't tell the most influential people of the university that to their face.) Learn to read the room, Albert!

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

And why did they have to make Skerrett pregnant on top of everything else? 

I thought that was excessive, too, but it tied in to Skerret getting the tonic from the apothecary. I guess she and Francatelli got their water from someplace other than that common pump? At any rate, it was needlessly soapy on a show that has too much of it as is.

[b2H]

Anyone notice at the end that the name of the hotel/inn was changed?

My guess is, unless the property fails, we've seen the last of Francatelli.  There's no tie-in anymore.

[TaurusRose]

Didn’t like Nell on Outlander, but didn’t mind her here as Skerrett. I’m glad Francatelli names his place Nancy’s. A lot of this series is just so annoying because it’s so fanciful, but it’s the only thing to watch on Sunday night. 

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

 That hotel looked beautiful but will anyone want to eat there knowing someone died there?

Nancy died in their private quarters, not on a table in dining room.

[Kohola3]

3 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Nancy died in their private quarters, not on a table in dining room.

Well, people were a lot less educated then.  They might think the miasma of death permeated the inn. 

The whole idea that germs caused disease didn't come around until 1860 and it took a long while for that to be accepted even by the medical community.

[Misslindsey]

I will hold the unpopular opinion that I do not mind that much about historical accuracy. I have read a lot about Victoria, but I am fine with the show not being historically accurate. I almost come to expect a soapy version of a television series more than a historically accurate one. I watched and enjoyed various other period piece shows that played fast and loose with accuracy. It just does not bother me anymore. Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

[Kohola3]

Just now, Misslindsey said:

I will hold the unpopular opinion that I do not mind that much about historical accuracy.

Nor do I.  It was never advertised as a documentary so I just sort of expected a fictional account of a real character.

[zoey1996]

14 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Didn’t like Nell on Outlander, but didn’t mind her here as Skerrett.

I didn't realize that was the same actor!  I've enjoyed her work here.

I despised Palmerston when the character was first introduced, but liked him a little bit better this episode.  

I don't mind the historical inaccuracies too much.  Since I don't know much about Victoria and her life, it's been interesting to look up and find out a bit more when questions have arisen, and learned more about how it really was.

[Calvada]

9 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

There is an excellent book “The Ghost Map” about how Dr. Snow discovered the source of the cholera and basically created forensic science. I read it several years ago. Poor Skerritt. 😞I liked her.

I just requested this book from the library.  Thanks for the recommendation.  

I agree zoey1996.  I do learn from this series, because it causes me to do a bit of research, since I find myself wondering whether things really happened as portrayed.  This week I discovered that the Queen did not meet Florence Nightingale during a cholera epidemic; in reality they met after the Crimean War.  But I found out that Florence Nightingale did have a pet owl.  

[LiveenLetLive]

5 hours ago, nora1992 said:

5 hours ago, floridamom said:

 This, is too much to fake IMO.

Perfect summary for this entire season!  If you’re going to rewrite history, then bring back Lord M! 

Hell yes, have Lord M and Victoria give in to the passion, or at least Rufus Sewell, the real guy was an old, old man by this point.

[magdalene]

Lord Palmeston started growing on me last episode and this week I liked him even more.  Laurence Fox is a member of a very well-known British acting family.

[dubbel zout]

I'm legit surprised we haven't see the evil duke twirl his mustache. The writing and acting for him is SO heavy-handed.

[LittleIggy]

38 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Lord Palmeston started growing on me last episode and this week I liked him even more.  Laurence Fox is a member of a very well-known British acting family.

His dad is James Fox and his uncle is Edward Fox (one of my all time faves).

[TVForever]

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

That’s true, but historically he should be around 64 years old not 40 like Laurence Fox. 😏

I'm a big fan of Laurence Fox, so I can live the historical inaccuracy here :)

10 hours ago, twoods said:

That actor that plays Palmerston has amazing chemistry with every female he is paired up with. His character is so skeezy but I can’t help enjoying every second he is onscreen.

Again, Laurence Fox...

2 hours ago, b2H said:

Anyone notice at the end that the name of the hotel/inn was changed?

My guess is, unless the property fails, we've seen the last of Francatelli.  There's no tie-in anymore.

That last scene got a couple more tears out of me. Francatelli finally chose a name, but it turned out to be a memorial to his dear wife. "Sniffles"

[plurie]

As an infectious disease epidemiologist, I'm very familiar with John Snow (not to be confused with Jon Snow from GAME OF THRONES). He's considered the father of epidemiology AND anesthesiology. Truly a man ahead of his time. There's a John Snow Pub near the site of the Broad Street Pump in London, and a John Snow Society that gives an annual epidemiology award in conjunction with the Epidemiology Section of the American Public Health Association.

[screenaddict]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm legit surprised we haven't see the evil duke twirl his mustache. The writing and acting for him is SO heavy-handed.

I'm legit surprised they don't make Feodora wear a fake mustache so she can twirl it. 

[iMonrey]

Wow, I did not see that coming at all. And no I did not tear up I have allergies. 

Funny, just last week I was saying the show has overestimated my interest in Francatelli and Skerrett because I was not interested in following a story about them after they leave the service of the Queen, and as it turns out, I underestimated my own investment in these characters because I found that ending surprisingly touching and moving. The part where we can hear Nancy's voiceover reading the letter really got to me.

It actually might have been kind of fun to follow their story and have their little Inn be the gathering place for the Queen's servants to get together and gossip about life at the palace. 

My one quibble - I'm assuming that Abigail (the Chartist girl) will now become Victoria's new dresser based on Nancy's recommendation but that seems awfully far-fetched to me. No way the Queen of England is going to hire some cockney peasant off the street as her personal dresser. From what I can tell, the position is akin to a lady's maid and I would expect the Queen to have someone of great importance and experience in that position. It was one thing for Nancy because she worked her way up (she did not start out as head dresser) - this new girl just came out of nowhere.

Does anyone else think the Duchess's husband looks like Ernst? The first time I saw him I mistook him for Ernst, for just a second.

Let's hope this is an end to Albert and Victoria's tedious squabbling. And Feodora can go away any time now.

Quote

Albert is often right, but he's often so annoying about making his point that I'm not surprised people are unhappy with him. He also needs to learn how to read the room better. He could have presented his ideas at Cambridge without making it sound as if Cambridge had its head up its butt for 600 years. (It may have, but you don't tell the most influential people of the university that to their face.) Learn to read the room, Albert!

Agreed. Albert has always come across as being a pompous know-it-all and speaks to everyone so condescendingly, it makes it hard to take his side even if he's right.

[Nolefan]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Agreed. Albert has always come across as being a pompous know-it-all and speaks to everyone so condescendingly, it makes it hard to take his side even if he's right.

LOL. I see the British people as coming across as delicate, insecure, elitists who are so intent on keeping their class system that they panic and get billigant and nasty when someone has the nerve to even question whether there might be a better way of doing things. If I were Albert, instead of being all contrite and blaming myself for people bullying me (like he did in this episode), I would have told them to go $&@# themselves and left. 

[magdalene]

If anybody is part of the class system it's Albert. He is a hoity-toity aristocrat and husband of the Queen. He isn't some under-privileged outsider.  The reason some of these British upper-class twits don't like him is purely because he is German.

And I agree totally that his way of speaking makes me want to automatically disagree with him even when he is right.

The under-privileged outsider in the episode that should be listened to is Dr Snow, not poor lil Albert, he of the floppy hair.

[Nolefan]

29 minutes ago, magdalene said:

If anybody is part of the class system it's Albert. He is a hoity-toity aristocrat and husband of the Queen. He isn't some under-privileged outsider.  The reason some of these British upper-class twits don't like him is purely because he is German.

And I agree totally that his way of speaking makes me want to automatically disagree with him even when he is right.

The under-privileged outsider in the episode that should be listened to is Dr Snow, not poor lil Albert, he of the floppy hair.

Well, Albert is the upper class person willing to use his position to be brave enough to stand up to these elitists in support of the lower class in regard to slavery issues, child labor laws, better housing for the poor, etc. God knows these British elites just ignore the common people, as mentioned in this episode by Aligail that the Chartist Petition was just ignored by Parliament and Mr. Chauffy was sent packing. And it is even more offensive that they just don’t like him because he is German. Heaven forbid a German person might come in and mess up their English traditions. Luckily, Albert didn’t have Lord M’s social conscience, who found the less fortunate to be lower than dirt and should just be ignored in the hopes that they would all go away somewhere to die.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Nolefan

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I will hold the unpopular opinion that I do not mind that much about historical accuracy. I have read a lot about Victoria, but I am fine with the show not being historically accurate. I almost come to expect a soapy version of a television series more than a historically accurate one. I watched and enjoyed various other period piece shows that played fast and loose with accuracy. It just does not bother me anymore. Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

Thumbs up from me.  As long as it's been made clear that it's not supposed to be a documentary (and Daisy has been clear on this point), then I don't see the issue.  I have a background in education, and that side of me sees an opportunity.  Whether you are in school or not, works like Victoria, The Crown, and Downton Abbey are ways to get people interested in history.  I love history, but some people don't.  When series like Victoria drop and people watch them, people start Googling...and learning.  What really happened, how much creativity was taken, etc.  That's engagement, and I don't ever see that as a bad thing.

Plus, as TVForever has astutely pointed out...Laurence Fox.  I had never, ever heard of this man.  See what I'm learning? :)

[Notwisconsin]

1 hour ago, Nolefan said:

Heaven forbid a German person might come in and mess up their English traditions.

The first two Georges were German and every single British Queen after Anne and prior to Victoria were also German, so clearly, the Brits were pretty much used to it by then.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Notwisconsin

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, plurie said:

As an infectious disease epidemiologist, I'm very familiar with John Snow (not to be confused with Jon Snow from GAME OF THRONES). He's considered the father of epidemiology AND anesthesiology. Truly a man ahead of his time. There's a John Snow Pub near the site of the Broad Street Pump in London, and a John Snow Society that gives an annual epidemiology award in conjunction with the Epidemiology Section of the American Public Health Association.

He gave Victoria anesthesia (chloroform) during childbirth number eight. Back then that was considered shocking because women were supposed to suffer during childbirth. 🙄 After Victoria used anesthesia, other woman could and did.

[dubbel zout]

30 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

women were supposed to suffer during childbirth

We are sexual temptresses, luring those poor innocent men to their doom.

[Nolefan]

5 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

The first two Georges were German and every single British Queen after Anne and prior to Victoria were also German, so clearly, the Brits were pretty much used to it by then.

 

Well, even this episode showed the Cambridge group (supposedly educated people) making an Albert in effigy, with some derogatory sign around his neck making fun of him as a German. Also, at this time, as shown in the episode, people were blaming the foreigners for bringing the diseases to England. So maybe the English were fine for a while prior to Albert, but the hate brewed up again after he arrived. Victoria even remarked to Lord M about how it made no sense that people disliked a German Prince, when her whole family was German, and Lord M said that public opinion is often not logical.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nolefan

[iMonrey]

Quote

If anybody is part of the class system it's Albert. He is a hoity-toity aristocrat and husband of the Queen. He isn't some under-privileged outsider.  The reason some of these British upper-class twits don't like him is purely because he is German.

And I agree totally that his way of speaking makes me want to automatically disagree with him even when he is right.

He has always come across as a didactic little prig from day 1. Even when he first met Victoria he was critical of everything she did including her piano playing (he said she didn't practice enough). And this was when he was supposed to be winning her over. He simply doesn't know how to be polite. Even when visiting foreign dignitaries he's a lousy guest - look how sour he was when staying with the King of France.  If he weren't good looking I doubt Victoria (or anyone else) would ever put up with him.

Quote

The first two Georges were German and every single British Queen after Anne and prior to Victoria were also German, so clearly, the Brits were pretty much used to it by then.

A lot of Brits were not happy at all with the Act of Succession which skipped over the rest of the Stuart claimants in favor of Sophia of Hanover, which is what led to the Jacobite uprisings over the next century. I think by the time Victoria was on the throne they considered the monarchy more or less anglicized, whereas Albert was a foreign born interloper.