S01.E01/S01.E02/S01.E03:

[Bill1978]

I'm really enjoying this show at the moment however I am not a fan of Maladie's 'insane speak'. I hated it with Drusilla on Buffy and I'm hating it here. Only because I'm not a fan of the way the speech is meant to provide as clues for the story. I get that she is insane (as was Drusilla) but I just hate when riddles are used as speech.

And it's amazing how after just one scene I was heartbroken when Auggie was forced to 'dump' Penance. I am definitely hoping for them to be reunited.

The scenes in the orphanage with all the Touched in the background etc really reminded me of the 'Peculiars' in Miss Peregrines Home For Peculiar Children. I get a strog feeling that Joss was inspired by that world when creating the Touched.

And speaking of Touched. I feel this show should be called The Touched since no one is ever referred to as The Nevers. But who knows, maybe down the line The Nevers will be revealed as a term used by others.

[taanja]

3 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I'm really enjoying this show at the moment however I am not a fan of Maladie's 'insane speak'. I hated it with Drusilla on Buffy and I'm hating it here. Only because I'm not a fan of the way the speech is meant to provide as clues for the story. I get that she is insane (as was Drusilla) but I just hate when riddles are used as speech.

I love a good crazy character and Drucilla was one of my all time faves! I have no problem with crazy speak -- I feel it takes me into the mind of their madness. And Madalie is a trip! Like a trip down crazy town!

Besides...

"There is pleasure sure in being mad which none but madmen know"  -- John Dryden

 

[Proclone]

18 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I'm really enjoying this show at the moment however I am not a fan of Maladie's 'insane speak'. I hated it with Drusilla on Buffy and I'm hating it here. Only because I'm not a fan of the way the speech is meant to provide as clues for the story. I get that she is insane (as was Drusilla) but I just hate when riddles are used as speech.

I did like it when Amalia lampshaded it though when she told Maladie that she didn't want to listen to her bs riddles (paraphrasing).

[CouchTater]

I really enjoyed episode 1.  I watched whenever I noticed it was playing on one of the HBO channels.  I felt lukewarm on episode 2, and I finally realize why:  too much Maladie.  I find the character to be overwrought, stereotypical, just too much.  I don't know if it's the acting, the writing, the direction...  But I'm finding the character tiresome with no nuance so far.  I hope there's an arc for her and that she settles into something interesting.  So far I find myself rolling my eyes when she's on screen, for the most part.

[izabella]

3 hours ago, CouchTater said:

too much Maladie.

Yes, this.  I'm exceedingly tired of her already. 

I know they only have 6 episodes and a plot, but I'm far more interested in knowing about the powers various people have, and what happened 3 years ago immediately after the spaceship when people found out they were touched.  I also want to know how they gathered at the orphanage, and what others are doing. 

I have to say the violence is also just too much for me. 

[FemmyV]

They're losing me, with all the violence. It's not what I come to period drama or steampunk for.

[AnimeMania]

Wow, episode 3 was the best episode yet, extremely tense. If you watch on HBO Max, they include a behind the scenes short that shows you how they filmed the Odium/Amelia fight. They blew the physics when they showed Odium trying to pull Amelia out of the water and Amelia pulling Odium just as hard trying to pull him into the water. The only way that scene would have worked is if Amelia had put her feet under Odium's feet so she could use Odium as leverage.

Oh no! They killed my favorite character, boy did I love that machine gun guy. Every time he used that machine gun, my heart skipped a beat. RIP machine gun guy, Odium, and that weird SOB in the weird mask (were you a human or a robot or an alien?) you will be missed. Oh and I guess Mary as well.

It would be funny if all the Touched that were working for Hugo Swann left to go live at the Ophanage.

I think that Diplomat guy faked his daughter's death and locked her in the basement, rabid dogs my ass.

I don't think the Doctor should have stopped at the bullet fragment. Do you think Maladie became insane due to syphilis, which would explain the sores around her mouth.

[ZeeEnnui]

Whoa! Mundi and Hugo? Did not see that one coming. Can't blame the gruff policeman there. James Norton is hawt! It is interesting because there was a definite spark between Mundi and Mrs. True in last week's episode, but now I'll have to rethink that in light of what we learned tonight.

Can someone check on Augie? Is he awkwardly in a corner just saying "no" to all of the touched hookers? Definitely not the guy to leave in charge of the upscale whorehouse, Hugo.

I knew Mary was a goner the minute she stepped up to the mic. Frankly, if I'd had a harrowing underwater standoff with a bridge troll like Mrs. True, my first instinct would be to get Mary to safety because danger. This is one of those situations where the show probably shouldn't go on. Couldn't Penance have set up some kind of safety perimeter or something?

How long do we think it's going to take for Mrs. True to figure out Lavinia's the Big Bad. Also, is Denis O'Hare going to actually have more than a few minutes onscreen before the end of the season? So far his Dr. Touchedenstein character hasn't had much to do, and it's hard to believe the actor would have signed on for such a small role unless he's going to have more to do in the last three episodes. 

I'm a little surprised that there is no dedicated forum section for this show.

[dwmarch]

Well, if we had any doubt that this was a Joss Whedon show... Damn, that shit was rough. I don't like seeing beautiful women get murdered and this show made sure to put a bunch of exclamation points on it by having Mary get shot over and over again. It reminded me of a similarly gratuitous moment from Serenity and if you've seen that you know exactly which one I mean.

I thought this was a great episode even if I am having a hard time following the intricacies of what is going on. That underwater fight was amazing.

The Beggar King is going to be really disappointed in his giant minion for joining the "got my ass kicked by a girl in Victorian England" club. However, he now gets to discover the drawback of having a giant minion: how is he going to do to him what he did to the other guy?

There was some great humor too. Penance getting a whiff of the opium ("the what?!") was hilarious and the doctor's moment where he didn't want to get out of the carriage because he still believed it was his was a beautiful illustration of a brick joke.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, I should have known that this was totally going to be the type of show where being billed a regular means squat when it comes to your longevity.  At least Mary's siren call was able to attract a few other touched to the cause (and it looks like Bonfire Amy had a change of heart as well), but that's a pretty nasty way to go.  Credit to Eleanor Tomlinson for being able to make the character leave enough of a mark to make me care, despite only being here for three episodes.

Also didn't see Mundi and Hugo being a thing either, and that's why the marriage to Mary failed.  I wonder if Mundi is bisexual or pan, or if he's gay and in the closet, and that's why the likely marriage was never going to work out.

Heh, Augie's already regretting going into business with Hugo!

The fight between Amalia and the Beggar King's thug who can actually walk on water was pretty awesome.

I guess one of the disadvantages to Desiree's powers is that you can really find out the worst about people.  So don't blame Lucy for wanting to go off on that woman's bigoted, "drowned her own daughter"'s ass!

Way to make bullet removing surgery awkward, Maladie!

Nick Frost is fun as the Beggar King, but I keep thinking that if this was a normal, network Whedon show, this character would have totally been played by Mark Sheppard.  Not a slight at Sheppard because he's awesome, but that really is his type of character on network shows (admittedly a lot of this could be that I'm binging Supernatural for the first time, and I've got a lot of Crowley in my mind going on right now.)

Amalia and Penance's opening quips in the warehouse and getting high on opium were hilarious.  Laura Donnelly and Ann Skelly really have nailed down the chemistry between these two already.

I'm guessing everyone is going to suspect the likes of Maladie, the Beggar King, and Massen and his ilk for Mary's death, but I have to think Lavinia was behind it.  There has to be a reason they showed Amalia casually reveal the test to her.

[AnimeMania]

I couldn't tell if Mary knew that Mundi was gay and was marrying him as his "beard" or did this happen after Mary left him at the altar.

The person who arranged Mary's murder had to know that she would be in the park that night and have enough power to get the machine gun guy released from prison (he did kill a large number of high society folks).

The Doc decided to stay with his wife and daughter and not tell them about his dalliance with Amelia. 

It is weird that the Doc primarily works for the Beggar King, you would have thought that Amelia would have used that connection to get her message to the Beggar King.

[owenthurman]

3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that Diplomat guy faked his daughter's death and locked her in the basement, rabid dogs my ass.

Is the tall girl Lord Matsen’s daughter? 

[snowwhyte]

Well, that was eventful. I knew there was something between the doctor and Amalia but i thought maybe his wife had died and that it was an unspoken thing they hadn't acted on. 

The real surprise was definitely the reveal about Mundi being gay and having a thing with Hugo. 

I want to like Augie, he's Whedon's new Wesley/Simon character but he needs to wise up. If he can't see that Hugo is using him and it's a terrible idea to be the owner of record for a brothel then there's no hope for him. 

[snowwhyte]

6 hours ago, owenthurman said:

Is the tall girl Lord Matsen’s daughter? 

No, when they were on their outing to show off their turns she spoke of her parents being abroad. I think maybe her father is a diplomat or something.

[Enigma X]

I knew Mary was going to die as well and (pretty or not) it sucks! Lavinia does not strike me as a mastermind and am finding it hard to believe that since the orphanage has been running that Amelia has not started to have suspicions. Alas, plot armor. 

Aww Mundi. I felt for him on so many levels in this episode. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Enigma X

[tennisgurl]

I suspected that Mary might be our first casualty, her power is just too helpful, but her getting shot to pieces was still shocking and horrible. Poor Mary and poor Detective Mundi. Even after things didn't work out you could tell that they still cared a lot about each other. So now it looks like shit is getting even more real, and its been pretty real since day one! 

I am still really enjoying the show, I especially liked seeing more of the supporting characters living in the house. It was a bit funny but also sad that everyone stopped singing and having fun when Amalia showed up, like the fun police just arrived. I guess she has to keep some distance between her and everyone else, but at least she has her bestie Penance, who continues to be the best. 

I certainly did not see Mundi having been involved with Hugo and his sex club coming, should be interesting to see where that all goes. It also sounds like Amalia and the doctor had a bit of a thing once, which is not exactly great because he's married and he feels really bad about it. And one of the other occupants heard them talking about it, so you know that's coming back. 

I like that Mary was rather understandably annoyed at Amalia for trying to recruit the women that kidnapped her, people in stories are too often asked to be WAY too forgiving of people that have wronged them. But conveniently for Bonfire Annie, Mary dies just as soon as she shows up, so there we are. 

The fight with the guy walking on water was cool, but the Beggar King is going to be pissed if his guys keep getting their asses kicked. 

[CouchTater]

Maybe it's because I'm not Touched, but I didn't find Mary's song to be very beautiful.   Her notes were too sharp for my ears, I think.

[aghst]

So Odium was touched too?

They discover the poster with the false address weeks or months after they've caused the capture of how many Touched people?

It seemed like there were a couple of boys among those being entranced by Mary's song?

Took awhile for it to register that Odium was walking on water.  I guess he toppled the carriage to get Amalia in the water which was suppose to be his home field advantage.

That big chain doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to kill if not for the fact that he let her climb on his shoulders and wrap it around his neck.

 

[Haleth]

Did anyone else notice all the sparkles floating around Maladie when she was in the carriage?  None of the other Touched are surrounded by specks.  The other thing I noticed was the photo of the Italian girl in the album that Amalie seized.  

Sorry to see Elinor Tomlinson go, but glad Desiree is still there (it looked like she was leaving last week) and Bonfire Annie is a cool addition (heh, pun) to the crew.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Did anyone else notice all the sparkles floating around Maladie when she was in the carriage?  None of the other Touched are surrounded by specks. 

I figured it was just dust motes from filming in direct sunlight.

[Popples]

I wonder if some of the Touched were able to resist Mary's song. We saw the woman who was "auditioning" at the Ferryman's club in the park, but I don't think Augie was there, unless he went back home and was out of range.

[Haleth]

49 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I figured it was just dust motes from filming in direct sunlight.

I thought so too at first but there were none around the doctor, only Maladie from every camera angle. 

[Unclejosh]

11 hours ago, aghst said:

That big chain doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to kill if not for the fact that he let her climb on his shoulders and wrap it around his neck.

 

Agreed for the most part but to be fair, how many people have True's fighting ability?  She is clearly portrayed as elite in that regard.

[AnimeMania]

16 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I thought so too at first but there were none around the doctor, only Maladie from every camera angle. 

I thought she was the only one directly in sunlight.

[blackwing]

I've only watched the first episode so far, and I don't know what to make of this show.  This show SHOULD be everything I love - period piece, set in London, superpowers - and yet somehow I am not loving it as much as I think I should be.

I think part of my issue is that there's too many characters and I feel like we got thrust into the midpoint of the story and I am having trouble understanding what is going on.

And unfortunately, this show is reminding me a lot of "Carnival Row", which I kind of despised.

[meep.meep]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought so too at first but there were none around the doctor, only Maladie from every camera angle. 

I think they were flies, attracted to her gunshot wound and wounds around her mouth.  Sorry.

I am starting to dislike the gratuitous female nudity.  It wasn't necessary for Maladie to be nude under her dress.  Alternatively, she could have been shot in the arm or leg.

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I am starting to dislike the gratuitous female nudity.  It wasn't necessary for Maladie to be nude under her dress.  Alternatively, she could have been shot in the arm or leg.

I think that is just part of Maladie's character, she is always showing her lady bits to any person that will look at them.

[MissLucas]

I can deal with Maladie's lady bits, the beggar king ripping off a piece of skin from one of his henchmen and Marie being gunned down. But machine-gun-arm killer tasting his own puss was the moment I wondered if I want to keep watching.

Mundi's secret was already hinted at in the last episode when he was under Desirée's touch but Mrs True stopped him just when he was about to blab because she had already heard what she had wanted to hear. 

The featurette on the lake fight was fantastic. Laura Donnelly seems to have nerves of steel. Kudos to the whole team who invested so much time and effort into that sequence.

Poor Lilie Massen, who is definitely not resting under that little headstone we were shown (it also looks ad if Mrs Massen had died in childbirth). And I hope the stand-in for the house will be identified in another featurette just like they did with the Bidlow's estate. Speaking of the Bidlows, I enjoyed Swann's quip about older brothers, he! But Augie really needs to start using his brain for something different than ornithology. 

On a sidenote: I hope Bernadette Banner is going to have a look at the show.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Is the tall girl Lord Matsen’s daughter? 

No, because as Lord Massen was walking away from his house, the camera panned over the grave of his daughter. That explains his disdain for the Touched I guess. His daughter didn't survive her Turn. 

Quote

How long do we think it's going to take for Mrs. True to figure out Lavinia's the Big Bad.

This is kind of an annoying trope about TV characters that have precognitive abilities - their powers never give them a premonition of who the villain is. 

Quote

The person who arranged Mary's murder had to know that she would be in the park that night and have enough power to get the machine gun guy released from prison (he did kill a large number of high society folks).

Obviously Lavinia. Sadly, Amalia had just finished telling Lavinia they were doing a test of Mary's powers that night at the park.

Quote

And unfortunately, this show is reminding me a lot of "Carnival Row", which I kind of despised.

It does feel like there's a glut of these types of shows lately. Whether set in Victorian England or present day, the "suddenly super-powered" genre is becoming cliche. 

That said, I'm enjoying the show so far, and I kind of liked Carnival Row too.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:37 AM, ZeeEnnui said:

Can someone check on Augie? Is he awkwardly in a corner just saying "no" to all of the touched hookers? Definitely not the guy to leave in charge of the upscale whorehouse, Hugo.

Ha! I don't know why the phrase "touched hookers" amuses me so, but it does.

On 4/26/2021 at 10:12 AM, Enigma X said:

I knew Mary was going to die as well and (pretty or not) it sucks! Lavinia does not strike me as a mastermind and am finding it hard to believe that since the orphanage has been running that Amelia has not started to have suspicions. Alas, plot armor. 

Also plot armor that True had no ripplings about Mary's death at the park.  But one doesn't even have to be touched to divine Bidlow's hand.  She was the only one who knew about Mary and the park and with the power to get Machine Gun Kelly out of jail.  Not sure if I'll tune in next episode, but with her all special insight and perceptions into people, I hope True gets a clue.   

I have HBOMax, and this show has been HEAVILY promoted there. I knew nothing about the show going in, but finally decided to watch. I wondered why the 1st episode didn't connect with me, and then Joss Whedon's name popped up and it made sense.  Never watched Buffy, and the few other Whedon productions I've seen in whole or part seemed unnecessarily quippy yet weak on the storytelling.  The lake fight was the best part of episode 3, kudos to the production team, Amalia actress and the effects.  

[enchantingmonkey]

Almost every show I've watched on HBO has a combination of nudity, gratuitous sex scenes, graphic violence, F-bombs, or all of the above.  It's part of their brand, and seems unlikely that the nudity and the violence are going anywhere.  

Mary questioning Amalia about her motivations was what really made me like her.  I liked her singing, too, but I was impressed that she wasn't just sitting in the orphanage and sipping on Amalia's Kool-Aid.  Sad to see her go so soon but curious to see if the loss of their Feel-Good melodies will have an impact on the Touched.  

Also enjoyed the tete-a-tete between Bonfire Annie and Amalia.  Again, someone questioning why Amalia is doing whatever it is that she's doing.  

[aghst]

 A lot of times, it seems older actresses are less reticent about doing nudity whereas they might have balked when they were younger.

Maybe they still like being asked.😉

 

Younger actresses may be more wary of doing something gratuitous and being ruled out of certain roles, such as network TV shows or maybe something to do with Disney.  Or Apple is said to have prudish standards as well, trying to burnish a family-friendly brand.

So it would be very surprising for instance if Skelly did any nudity on the show.

[Bill1978]

For a show that is really all about the big picture, I really am not that invested in working out what is going to happen. I'm more invested in watching the relationships between the various characters (especially the side characters). And this is probably the first episode where I really felt the dialogue was Whedoneque. Lots of little random quips peppered throughout conversations that made me smile or chuckle.

I should have seen Mary's death coming when I felt at peace and happy with the conversation she had with Mundi at the orphanage. It was really touching so of course she had to be riddled with bullets. At least Mundi got to see her sing one last time.

Lord Massen's daughter is definitely not dead BUT for some reason I swear Tall Girl was shown to be his daughter at the conclusion of Episode 1 when all those people were getting touched. I swear it was the same actress cause I remember thinking 'Woah, that's why he hates The Touched.' I think I need to check Episode 1 out again, OR maybe Tall Girl is a Parent Trap twin. [Just rewatched the scene and I was totally and utterly wrong, it's definitely a different actor]

I need more Augie screen time. This show has shown me that I am a sucker for that character type in a Whedon show. Don't know why but I am. And I have also convinced myself that Lavinia can walk.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Bill1978

[owenthurman]

6 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Lord Massen's daughter is definitely not dead BUT for some reason I swear Tall Girl was shown to be his daughter at the conclusion of Episode 1 when all those people were getting touched. I swear it was the same actress cause I remember thinking 'Woah, that's why he hates The Touched.' I think I need to check Episode 1 out again, OR maybe Tall Girl is a Parent Trap twin. [Just rewatched the scene and I was totally and utterly wrong, it's definitely a different actor]

I think Tall Girl is Lillie, Massen's daughter. I think he'd rather pretend she's dead than have his family name and traditions associated with one of Them. I think his wife is still alive too, the proverbial "madwoman in the attic" a la Jane Eyre.

I watched the first ep and at the end I saw the flashback with all the familiar characters, and I said to myself, "Oh, that's Maladie, that's Augie, and Massen's daughter is the tall girl," but names seemed to contradict that. Then I showed the ep to my girlfriend, and she said, "Oh, is that the tall girl?"

And while I'm speculating, let me theorize that Amalia's husband was Swann's older brother, Caleb. Caleb was apparently an upstanding, honorable kind of guy, repeatedly described as "a fighter," and he died by drowning. Amalia learned to fight somewhere and she tried to drown herself in the first episode.

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, owenthurman said:

And while I'm speculating, let me theorize that Amalia's husband was Swann's older brother, Caleb. Caleb was apparently an upstanding, honorable kind of guy, repeatedly described as "a fighter," and he died by drowning. Amalia learned to fight somewhere and she tried to drown herself in the first episode.

Interesting theory but that would only work if Caleb had walked off in disgrace before (or because) he married Amalia. Swann and Amalia have met and showed no sign of recognition (leaving as a third option that they are secret allies which seems unlikely).

[owenthurman]

12 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Interesting theory but that would only work if Caleb had walked off in disgrace before (or because) he married Amalia. Swann and Amalia have met and showed no sign of recognition (leaving as a third option that they are secret allies which seems unlikely).

There’s other ways it could work. They’ve met onscreen but she didn’t say a word to him, and all he said to her was, “ah, a prognosticator.”

I suspect that the disgraced brother wouldn’t have been Caleb.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/28/2021 at 7:16 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Also plot armor that True had no ripplings about Mary's death at the park.  But one doesn't even have to be touched to divine Bidlow's hand.  She was the only one who knew about Mary and the park and with the power to get Machine Gun Kelly out of jail.  Not sure if I'll tune in next episode, but with her all special insight and perceptions into people, I hope True gets a clue.   .  

"Plot armor" refers to a character being protected from getting wounded or killed by virtue of the fact that the writers want/need to keep the person alive and well, as opposed to what the characters in the world should want to do. 

There are others who had the potential to know about Mary and the plans to broadcast at the park -- basically everyone at the Orphanage knew, so anyone those people talked to and anybody who might have trailed them.  In a world where fantastic abilities exist, including the ability to see the future and the ability to elicit confessions, I don't think that you can limit the viable suspects to one just yet. By the conventions of genre, the perpetrator is probably someone we have already met. 

[Zonk]

Very good show. I think I'll talk a bit more about it in the episode 4 thread.

On 4/26/2021 at 6:37 AM, ZeeEnnui said:

Whoa! Mundi and Hugo? Did not see that one coming. Can't blame the gruff policeman there. James Norton is hawt!

I appreciate the show alluding to all "that gay shit"™ but am I wrong or have we seen straight sex in all three of these episodes so far, but not even two men making out, even once? Come on HBO, put your money where your mouth is. Show me some man on man action.

On 4/19/2021 at 3:16 PM, AnimeMania said:

When Hugo Swann was in bed with the man and woman in the first episode, the man had a blue makeup design on his chest, which has appeared to have transferred to Hugo Swann's back, which more likely suggests that they had sex.

I do appreaciate a bi man being implied to be a bottom (at least part time). That's something you don't usually see.

On 4/26/2021 at 7:24 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Also didn't see Mundi and Hugo being a thing either, and that's why the marriage to Mary failed.  I wonder if Mundi is bisexual or pan, or if he's gay and in the closet, and that's why the likely marriage was never going to work out.

They made it really clear that Mundi is gay. Hugo is at least bi, probably pan.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Zonk

[Proclone]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:11 AM, owenthurman said:

I think Tall Girl is Lillie, Massen's daughter. I think he'd rather pretend she's dead than have his family name and traditions associated with one of Them. I think his wife is still alive too, the proverbial "madwoman in the attic" a la Jane Eyre.

I watched the first ep and at the end I saw the flashback with all the familiar characters, and I said to myself, "Oh, that's Maladie, that's Augie, and Massen's daughter is the tall girl," but names seemed to contradict that. Then I showed the ep to my girlfriend, and she said, "Oh, is that the tall girl?"

I really don't think "the tall girl", who I believed is called Primrose, is Massen's daughter.  She attended the event at the Bidlow's with the other touched.  Assuming that Massen did agree to have his touched daughter shipped off to an orphanage, I imagine that if he found out she was paraded around in public, in society where she could be recognized, he go apoplectic.  Even if Amalia didn't know she was his daughter, Lavinia most like would have and never would have allowed it either. I'm pretty sure his daughter is locked up in the attic.  That was why the phone installer was diverted away from that area.

What I'm confused about is...does everyone apparently know Amalia is an alien?  Penance seems to and so did Lucy.  They've been really cagey about Amalia and what's up with her up until this point (this isn't my face, I wasn't assigned this mission...) and it seemed that no one in show knew either (maybe not even Amalia herself).  Now she's almost casually talking about how she got left behind (by the spaceship) and no one really seems that surprised.  It seemed that Maladie was the only one who remembered a space ship was the cause of the turns.  But like I said Penance and Lucy seemed to understand that Amalia was somehow involved and that she was left behind.  Have they always known that and they've just conveniently never had an onscreen conversation with their friend about how she's an alien?  I feel like there are missing scenes or something.

Edited to Add:

I hesitated to watch this when I heard Whedon was involved because...well Whedon.  But then it seemed like he had left so I decided to give it a go.

After watching the third and forth episode back to back and despite neither of them being written or directed by Whedon...I'm starting to get a bit...I'm not sure tired is the right word, but it's all I got...tired by how Whedon-esq this is.  I think the acting is very good and this is no way a criticism of the actors but...Penance is Kaylee with the serial numbers filed off, who was basically a version of Willow to begin with, Auggie is very Simon-esq.  People have already compared Maladie with Drusilla, but she also has shades of River.  Amalie is interesting but even she reminds me of a gender flipped Malcom Reynolds.  Someone at their core who wants to do the right thing but isn't opposed to unsavory means to get what they want.

I don't know...I really want to like this.  I like the premise very much and I really do think the acting is top notch.  I'm just hoping it becomes more of it's own thing.  Maybe I would be more tolerant of the Whedon-verse parallels if I could watch his stuff and just see quirky characters...but I don't. I see Whedon's own weird hang-ups about women and his fetish for skinny attractive women beating people up.  I'm really hoping that assuming this gets more seasons that it come into it's own more and becomes it's own thing.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Proclone
to add thoughts, and because the character is named Penance and not Patience

[MissLucas]

4 minutes ago, Proclone said:

Have they always known that and they've just conveniently never had an onscreen conversation with their friend about how she's an alien?  I feel like there are missing scenes or something.

I think at least Penance (and probably Doc Cousens) knows more than we do. The rest of the folks at the orphanage might just accept Amalia's weird statements as quirky and mysterious. Maybe Annie who has not yet been getting used to those will act as the audience's voice in one of the next episodes.

Primrose can't be Massen's daughter for various reasons already listed. Add to that she has made several references to her mother. And from the gravestones we know that Mrs. Massen had died the year her daughter (Lillie) was born - i.e. 1887. Lillie's 'death' happened 1896 (i.e. when she was touched). Massen clearly faked Lillie's death by letting her disappear in the attic or basement right in 1896. Lillie grew up without her mother, and even if Massen had pulled a Rochester with his wife for whatever reasons, then Primrose/Lillie would have no recollections of her either.

[Proclone]

5 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I think at least Penance (and probably Doc Cousens) knows more than we do. The rest of the folks at the orphanage might just accept Amalia's weird statements as quirky and mysterious. Maybe Annie who has not yet been getting used to those will act as the audience's voice in one of the next episodes.

This seems like a little bit of a cop-out on the show's part.  They haven't previously hinted that Penance or anyone else knows more than Amalia is a just a touched woman.  I can believe the Doc would keep Amalia's secrets and not bring it up, but while I think Penance would keep her secrets I can't believe that she would never bring it up when they are alone.  And we've seen plenty of scenes where they are alone. If nothing else she would question Amalia about any technology she might have encountered. 

[WatchrTina]

I've just re-watched the first three episodes and I'm very glad I did.  This show is DENSE!  I love a good SciFi/Fantasy/Steampunk/GirlPower show and I LOVED "Buffy" and "Angel" and "Firefly" (and I even liked "The Dollhouse") but . . . damn, you REALLY have to pay attention in this Whedon-verse.  I watched twice and paid close attention and I'm still a bit befuddled.  Like, is that creepy doctor lobotomizing the touched women he captures at the fake safe-haven, and then sending them to work in the "mine" helping to dig out the big, glowing orb?  I think lobotomy was a known thing at this time but are we to assume that lobotomy doesn't just make people docile, it also negates their "gift" if they are touched?  If so, . . . damn.  That's dark.  But then, I've seen "The Cabin In The Woods" so I know just how dark and other-worldly Joss Whedon is willing to go (not to mention his fondness for a cabal of men who are "in the know" and wiling to sacrifice innocent victims for the "greater good.")

Edited May 10, 2021 by WatchrTina

[Kirsty]

These forums are usually very good for avoiding spoilers, so can I point out to any available Mod that there is what I can only assume to be a huge spoiler in Proclone's second post on this page. Way to ruin that twist for me. Maybe someone could edit the post so no one else will have it ruined for them in future?

I watched episode three and this is a fun show. Laura Donnelly is doing great in the lead role.

But everything about Hugo's sex club is a total snore. It's old hat! Like, is it 2014 again? Because the HBO brothel as an excuse for nudity and unsexy sex is straight out of Game of Thrones. Apart from that, I find the combination of Whedon show with NC-17 features to be a slightly odd fit.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Kirsty

[CouchTater]

Are the Nevers threads supposed to be spoiler-free?  Not arguing the point, I just assumed they weren't since they're not flagged as spoiler-free.

And the episodes have aired, so can't we talked about them?

[Kirsty]

CouchTater, I thought this thread wasn't supposed to spoil stuff about later episodes?

This show was only released this week in the UK and Ireland.

[CouchTater]

16 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

CouchTater, I thought this thread wasn't supposed to spoil stuff about later episodes?

This show was only released this week in the UK and Ireland.

Ahh, sorry Kirsty.  I misunderstood.  I didn't realize that something in this thread was about an episode past episode 3.  You're right, I agree with you and stand corrected.

What was the spoiler?  I don't see anything spoiler-y in Proclone's post.

Edited May 20, 2021 by CouchTater

[l star]

Massen said that it only happened in London. Any other touched were in London when it happened. So that brings up why London? I also find it interesting that people are continue to develop touches even three years out. How long can they continue to show up from that day?

I felt so sorry for Myrtle when they first showed her chained to the bed. I can only imagine what her mother did to try to get the devil out of her. Myrtle and Primrose have become favorites of mine. They're just so happy to help and be there. I'd like to continue to see more of the other touched. For example, Harriet and her fiance- is her family accepting of her too? Why is she at the orphanage? Desiree is another one who is delightful. I loved when she was waiting on Amalia in the police station and making all the criminals confess. She just looked so amused at herself.

Penance called Amalia her sister in the first episode, and that fits for me. Amalia seems like the over protective and adoring older sister to her fiercely loyal little sister. I know others see their relationship romantically, but I don't. I could see Penance's faith becoming a problem between her and Amalia in time. Amalia is tolerant, but it hasn't really mattered so far.

Interesting that Dr. Cousens' turn is specific to surgery. He can't heal the little scrapes and bruises, and his turn doesn't completely heal the wound. He couldn't heal Maladie at all until he removed the bullet. The intimacy between Amalia and him was evident even before their conversation on the stairs. He came off as frustrated with her as he was hooked on her.

I enjoyed watching the Beggar King genuinely not know how to respond to Amalia. He's just a little bit afraid of her.

I feel like Maladie's crazy showed more control than she was given credit for. She kept her people together, organized her missions, and kept away from the cops. She called out Mary's true story. I don't think the crazier behavior was an act, but it also didn't seem to be a sign that she was out of control. The scene with Amalia and Maladie at the pipe place was affecting.

Amalia and Penance may be besties but Amalia is regarded as the leader while Penance is more one of the girls. I felt for Amalia when she walked in and everyone quit having fun. She was being very patient with Mary so it really wasn't called for either. I wonder if that difference is age or purely personality? Lucy got to participate. Or because Amalia is a widow? Even at the beginning, Amalia didn't think she could keep them safe at the orphanage. So why gather them all there? Maybe she just thinks they are safer there than outside on their own.

I appreciated that they moved on the address on the flyer so quickly. That woman was horrific. I could barely listen to her story. Lucy's was heartbreaking too. Amazing how willing Mary got to cooperate when she was reminded of how much worse there was out there for the touched. You'd think Maladie would have gotten that through to her. I did appreciate her bringing a new opinion to the mix. She was right- recruiting Bonfire Annie without talking to her was a shitty thing to do.

The fight between Amalia and Odium was my favorite action piece of these three episodes. Watching him walk on water was just so cool. Same for all the underwater shots and watching Amalia climb him like a tree. Watching Amalia ride up on that massive horse was cool too. The most moving scene for me was when Bonfire Annie lit up the crowd of touched behind her.

[Ziggy]

On 4/12/2021 at 1:22 AM, CatWarmer said:

Maladie seemed to be channeling Bellatrix Lestrange!

Oh, that's priceless!