Surviving R. Kelly

[EdnasEdibles]

4 hours ago, Spiderella2 said:

I think she was still in his presence as currently  as 2010/2011. The DJ, Kitty Jones said that R. Kelly introduced her to the girl on the tape within 2 weeks of her (Kitti) quitting her job and moving to his mansion. Since Martinez was out of the picture then (according to her statements in episode 3, she left him 2009). Thus Kitti must have met/ introduced to Sparkle’s niece. Her story is relatively newer in the timeline as the Love Letter album came out in 2010.  I saw in another doc on REELZ that the sex tape victim’s family got a huge  settlement...estimated at $5-9 million for their silence. Hence why they didn’t show up to testify at trial. And the brother in law is still R. Kelly’s bassist. 

So that family essentially sold R. Kelly a sex slave for $9 million and some job security. Insanity. 

[DrSparkles]

11 hours ago, sereion said:

I'm surprised she declined to come forward for this documentary; especially since she's been vocal about the Me Too movement, and her story as victim herself.

Agreed.

[tanyak]

Dream Hampton/Lifetime did a great job with this. I had no idea he was this sick. I knew about Aaliyah and I had knowledge of the "pee" tape, which I've never seen. But like the documentary said, they pushed the trial out so long, it really went off of minds. Then he drops Chocolate Factory and DH and I are walking back down the aisle of our wedding to "Happy People," and "Step in the Name of Love" was one of the songs that set our reception off. *sigh*

I didn't know that he has been molested. I was peeking around another site, and several folks said that the older sister is rumored to have been at least of the molesters. I also didn't know that R. is illiterate. Does anyone know why the older brother, Bruce, in in jail?

I was so happy when Michelle was able to get Dominique. Seeing her in the TMZ video dressed as a boy broke my heart. I also know that she likely didn't get all those tattoos by freewill. I wonder who called the police on her mom? My bet is that Joyceline probably found out that she had come up to the room. 

I felt awful for the Careys being reduced to throwing rocks at windows at the studio. I also think they just made bad decision after decision after decision. They still deserve none of this. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by tanyak

[Neurochick]

19 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

The motif of this documentary is the enabling and culpability of adults. Everyone knew about R. Kelly's predilections for teenage girls, but it was ignored. My heart broke for those parents, but I was angry with them as well. First of all, why are you putting your child in spitting distance of R. Kelly? Why are you even at his concert to begin with?  Unfortunately, there are a lot of R. Kelly's in many families, so if you condemn him, then you also have to deal with uncle/cousin/ so and so who the family knows not to leave girls around. We have a knack for protecting predators, so this is why Kells still has his fanbase. It's disheartening and disgusting. 

The thing is, EVERYONE knew, including the music teacher who said he was aggressive and inappropriate, and this was as a teen.  I wonder if therapy was ever suggested.   I mean everybody knew SOMETHING was wrong with the guy BEFORE he was famous.  Fame only made the monster grow.

Though I believe the family of the fourteen year old girl was paid off, I think there were other factors.  The trial was put off for six years (which is what the defense wanted).  The fourteen year old child in 2008 twentysomething year old woman.  Could it be possible that both she and her family didn't want her known as "the girl R. Kelly peed on?"  Because if she showed her face (especially in 2008 when the Internet was in everybody's homes and social media was in its infancy), that is who she would have been known as.

As for why parents would put their daughters in R. Kelly's orbit, I saw this video about Kelly in 2017, and though I don't always agree with them, they are right on the money when it comes to R. Kelly and why those families might have done what they did.

 

I wonder if people right now are downloading R. Kelly's music more than before the documentary.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Neurochick

[ZootSuitWyatt]

9 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The thing is, EVERYONE knew, including the music teacher who said he was aggressive and inappropriate, and this was as a teen.  I wonder if therapy was ever suggested.   I mean everybody knew SOMETHING was wrong with the guy BEFORE he was famous.  Fame only made the monster grow.

Though I believe the family of the fourteen year old girl was paid off, I think there were other factors.  The trial was put off for six years (which is what the defense wanted).  The fourteen year old child in 2008 twentysomething year old woman.  Could it be possible that both she and her family didn't want her known as "the girl R. Kelly peed on."  Because if she showed her face (especially in 2008 when the Internet was in everybody's homes and social media was in its infancy), that is who she would have been known as.

I wonder if people right now are downloading R. Kelly's music more than before the documentary.

yes: https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/r-kellys-streaming-numbers-rise-following-surviving-r-kelly-premiere-news.68541.html

[TimetoShine]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I wonder if people right now are downloading R. Kelly's music more than before the documentary.

Apparently, streaming of his music went up after the first night. 

[Enero]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

The thing is, EVERYONE knew, including the music teacher who said he was aggressive and inappropriate, and this was as a teen.  I wonder if therapy was ever suggested.   I mean everybody knew SOMETHING was wrong with the guy BEFORE he was famous.  Fame only made the monster grow

 

 

He was a poor black kid growing up on the south side of Chicago in the 70s. Therapy was likely not even on the radar. He was a troubled kid and that was that. The thought was probably “there are many troubled kids here” so what makes him different or special. Unfortunately that troubled kid went on to destroy many lives. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Enero

[Angelsmom1009]

43 minutes ago, TimetoShine said:

Apparently, streaming of his music went up after the first night. 

I think this is more about morbid curiosity rather than support. Like I mentioned before, most of the generation that streams music and knows nothing about that life involving cassettes and CDs and whatnot weren’t even born when R.Kelly was at peak popularity, or were infants at least. Now they hear about the Pied Piper of Pedophilia and are like, “What’s the big deal about this old dude’s music?”  So they check it out. Does it put a little fraction of money in his pocket? Unfortunately, yes. But I don’t think it’s a long term thing. 

[sereion]

24 minutes ago, Angelsmom1009 said:

Does it put a little fraction of money in his pocket? Unfortunately, yes. But I don’t think it’s a long term thing. 

I agree; it think the novelty will wear off in a couple of months...but, to ensure he doesn't go away quietly, he just released a new single--right after the docuseries concluded. How convenient. /s

Edited January 7, 2019 by sereion

[Spartan Girl]

What really stood out was when they talked about the black community's complicity in disbelieving his accusers. I couldn't help but think of OJ Simpson and how quick black women were quick to defend him and belittle Nicole because she was a white women. Now they're belittling and turning against the black women that are accusing R. Kelly....

This just makes me so sad on so many levels. I always thought all women were supposed to stick together.

[Kroliosis]

On 1/6/2019 at 1:03 PM, SHD said:

The current situation, where women who are of age are willingly allowing themselves to be abused, reminds me of a Manson situation. 

This situation reminds me of Hugh Hefner and the Playboy mansion.  Just very sad. 

I’m also assuming the lady who was involved w the sex tape & it’s release wasn’t brought up on charges because she testified?  She was over 18 when she was molesting a child, wasn’t she?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Kroliosis
Added thought

[Soobs]

2 hours ago, Kroliosis said:

This situation reminds me of Hugh Hefner and the Playboy mansion.  Just very sad. 

 

It reminds me more of Ariel Castro (who kidnapped and held the girls in St. Louis).  R. Kelly just has more money and charisma. 

[Smacky55]

9 hours ago, Kroliosis said:

I’m also assuming the lady who was involved w the sex tape & it’s release wasn’t brought up on charges because she testified?  She was over 18 when she was molesting a child, wasn’t she?

I thought about that as well. Then they said that the charge was child pornography and not statutory rape and I assume that’s why she wasn’t charged as well.  Technically she would have been guilty of statutory rape as well, but the filming of the video and hence child porn was just Kelly

[jenrising]

I can't find a less scummy article about this, but R Kelly put up a facebook page and reportedly posted some revenge porn of one of the accusers. Fortunately it's gone now. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6566331/R-Kelly-allegedly-posts-sex-tapes-accuser-site-launched-camp-discredit-women.html

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, Soobs said:

It reminds me more of Ariel Castro (who kidnapped and held the girls in St. Louis).  R. Kelly just has more money and charisma. 

Minor point:  it was Cleveland. R Kelly is a monster and needs to be in jail yesterday.

[Popples]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:08 AM, tanyak said:

Does anyone know why the older brother, Bruce, in in jail?

This time it's because of burglary, probation violation, and an outstanding arrest warrant.

He's been in jail quite a bit according to this thread. They have mugshots for the curious.

[Scarlett45]

As a black girl growing up in Chicago we all heard rumors about R. Kelly (I’m 33). I always believed it- and that people sold their kids, or “rented” their kids out to him for money. Also many young girls coming from not great home situations were prey for him. It’s quite awful and people loved the all mighty dollar more than protecting these girls. 

 

To the poster upthread that commented on why the abuse of mid/late teen girls is such a problem- that’s because rape culture has taught that once a girl hits puberty she’s “fair game” and exists to satisfy the sexual needs of heterosexual men. Hence the comments about “preference”- men feel entitled to a female post pubescent body. People are more quick to condemn the abuse of pre-pubescent children because it’s harder to victim blame a child that is prepubescent.

No one here is talking about actual consensual relationships where one person is a hair over the line of legal adulthood and one person is a hair under. No grown ass man should be putting his hands on an underage girl. Period. There are plenty of women 18+ that are just as attractive, and you want her that badly wait until she is an adult and make the choice. R. Kelly wanted young girls because he wanted to be able to control and exploit them. 

 

I think all the people that helped him should be punished too. He couldn’t have raped all those girls without co-conspirators. 

 

Side note- I was at the Darren Criss & Lea Michelle concert this summer and Darren chose “remix to ignition” as his chicago song. A woman stood up, said “he’s a fucking rapist” and walked out. My mom (who’s 70) said “what happened?!!!” And I said “that’s an R Kelly song.” And she said “that nasty man?!!” (Even she knows!!!)

While I was proud of her for standing up I was dumbfounded Darren could be so obtuse. This is CHICAGO, choose “sweet home chicago” if you want to be super safe. 

[Neurochick]

Many years ago, I was at a party where "Step In The Name of Love" was played.  I didn't know who the artist was because I don't follow R. Kelly (he gave me the creeps back then and I'm OLDER than him).  Someone told me it was R. Kelly, I said, "didn't he pee on someone," but no one seemed to care, they just loved the music.  I mean I'd forgotten about R. Kelly until the documentary, now I have "Remix to Ignition" stuck in my head.  

[EdnasEdibles]

And it begins! Hopefully this documentary did the job and he'll spend time in jail soon. I would imagine that any sort of search warrant would uncover cases and cases of child pornography that would hopefully be enough to get him share a jail cell with Jared from Subway for the rest of their disgusting lives. 

https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/r-kelly-case-georgia-surviving-r-kelly.html

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, EdnasEdibles said:

And it begins! Hopefully this documentary did the job and he'll spend time in jail soon. I would imagine that any sort of search warrant would uncover cases and cases of child pornography that would hopefully be enough to get him share a jail cell with Jared from Subway for the rest of their disgusting lives. 

https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/r-kelly-case-georgia-surviving-r-kelly.html

The statute of limitations are longer and the penalties are harsher for child porn than the actual child rape in most cases. May they get him!!

My only fear is that they won’t be able to identify the girls and prove their age. Since he raped girls in their teens it might be harder to prove they weren’t 18yet. 

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Many years ago, I was at a party where "Step In The Name of Love" was played.  I didn't know who the artist was because I don't follow R. Kelly (he gave me the creeps back then and I'm OLDER than him).  Someone told me it was R. Kelly, I said, "didn't he pee on someone," but no one seemed to care, they just loved the music.  I mean I'd forgotten about R. Kelly until the documentary, now I have "Remix to Ignition" stuck in my head.  

I am a bit irritated when they describe the tape as a "pee tape."  Technically, it fits but there's a big difference between two consenting adults engaging in a known, but otherwise harmless, kink and the fact that he did it to a 14-year-old girl. Focusing on the pee rather than the illegal ephobophilia tends to make it easier to dismiss in people's minds.

[Scarlett45]

44 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I am a bit irritated when they describe the tape as a "pee tape."  Technically, it fits but there's a big difference between two consenting adults engaging in a known, but otherwise harmless, kink and the fact that he did it to a 14-year-old girl. Focusing on the pee rather than the illegal ephobophilia tends to make it easier to dismiss in people's minds.

The urine isnt what bothers me. That he raped a 14yrs old girl and filmed it for his sick pleasure and the pleasure of other sick people bothers me!!

Yes ephebophilia- I couldn’t remember the term, thank you. 

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Since he raped girls in their teens it might be harder to prove they weren’t 18yet. 

Exactly. And because the age of consent varies from state to state, no matter how disgusting we might find a grown man hooking up with a teenager, there might be nothing that can be done from a legal standpoint. Didn't they mention in one scenario that because the girl was the legal age of consent in Illinois--17--the cops couldn't do anything?

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Camille said:

Exactly. And because the age of consent varies from state to state, no matter how disgusting we might find a grown man hooking up with a teenager, there might be nothing that can be done from a legal standpoint. Didn't they mention in one scenario that because the girl was the legal age of consent in Illinois--17--the cops couldn't do anything?

But the pornography is still illegal unless the person was 18. (But you have to prove they were underage when the recording was made) I’m talking about getting him on those charges. 

You KNOW there has to be a USB somewhere, and too many people helped him rape those girls to have no one be willing to flip on him all these years later. 

[Dr.OO7]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

38 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Yes ephobophilia- I couldn’t remember the term, thank you. 

Sorry to nitpick, but it's spelled ephebophilia.

I mentioned this posting somewhere else. He's a classic example of it. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing that has been surprising to me is the amount of shock people have expressed on social media about this documentary (I'm not talking about anyone here on the forum - I mean people who clearly had no idea about ANY of the shady shit he's done). This wasn't just an open secret. It was public knowledge that he married Aaliyah when she was 15 and the pee tape scandal later was huge, but apparently there are people who didn't know about any of that until last week.

As someone who did know about his general shadiness, I was undecided whether to watch this or not. Like do I really need six hours of hearing about what a pervert he is when I already know he's an abuser? I finally started watching last night and my reaction was exactly what I thought it would be - I'm disgusted by the long history of his abuse as well as how many adults did nothing about it.

There's turning a blind eye (which is bad enough) but then there's actively assisting his abuse (the tour manager forging papers to say Aaliyah was 18 so they could get married after Robert told him that Aaliyah might be pregnant, every member of his entourage who helped him scour the malls for teenage girls, whoever put that bed in the studio).

The older brother Bruce is an enabling piece of shit. Having a preference for younger girls is not the same as having a preference for older women. One is illegal. The other is not. There's a reason why 18 is when you are legally considered an adult and able to make your own decisions, and not 14.

One detail that grossed me out was that Robert met Aaliyah when she was only 12. Considering how quickly he began having sex with other girls after meeting them, I wonder how long he groomed Aaliyah before he started having sex with her.

It was really sad to see the pictures of her before she had that tougher image. You can see just how young she was. They were able to hide her age later because they changed her clothes and her image, but in the pictures before that when she was wearing dresses, it's sad to think that he looked at her and thought YES, I AM GOING TO FUCK THAT GIRL.

I really hope that his victims have all been getting therapy. Some of them are clearly still coping with it. Poor Lizzette - he had really escalated from "I like fucking teenagers" to abusive asshole by the time he met her. Met her at the mall, invited her to dinner, kissed her aggressively the same night, got her drunk, and had sex with her. The way she described the first time he hit her shows just how screwed up she still is because of his abuse: "I was looking at someone I wasn't supposed to look at." Textbook control freak abusive behavior from him there. Not only did he expect her to devote herself completely to him, but the hypocrite was fucking other girls left and right (and didn't even bother to tell her that he was married to Aaliyah at the time.

 

On 1/7/2019 at 1:43 PM, Neurochick said:

I wonder if people right now are downloading R. Kelly's music more than before the documentary.

 

On 1/7/2019 at 1:52 PM, ZootSuitWyatt said:

yes: https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/r-kellys-streaming-numbers-rise-following-surviving-r-kelly-premiere-news.68541.html

Normally I'm in favor of artists getting paid, but this is one of the few times that I'm okay with spotify paying only $0.006 to $0.0084 per play (whoever holds the rights to a song then splits the payment between the record label, producers, artists, and songwriters).

Edited January 9, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[luckyroll3]

On 1/7/2019 at 8:08 AM, tanyak said:

I felt awful for the Careys being reduced to throwing rocks at windows at the studio. I also think they just made bad decision after decision after decision. They still deserve none of this. 

The Carey's made me so fucking angry.  I didn't feel bad for them at all; I feel bad for their daughter.  Their sole job was to protect her and they failed at every opportunity to do so.  They let that man around their child and continued to do so.  That they didn't end any interactions with him the first time he encouraged the daughter to "interview" with him solo is baffling, especially as they admitted they knew of his reputation.  (I'm my opinion, they should have NEVER brought their daughter around him in the first place). And they kept allowing these interactions for the promise of a damn career.  

[Neurochick]

4 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

The Carey's made me so fucking angry.  I didn't feel bad for them at all; I feel bad for their daughter.  Their sole job was to protect her and they failed at every opportunity to do so.  They let that man around their child and continued to do so.  That they didn't end any interactions with him the first time he encouraged the daughter to "interview" with him solo is baffling, especially as they admitted they knew of his reputation.  (I'm my opinion, they should have NEVER brought their daughter around him in the first place). And they kept allowing these interactions for the promise of a damn career.  

I felt bad for them.  They just don't know.  They really believed that R. Kelly could make their daughter a star.  R. Kelly never had resources, he has no record company; he cannot do what Clive Davis did for Whitney Houston.  People like the Carey's have no idea what real money is, they look at R. Kelly and think he's rich, not realizing that owning a mansion in Atlanta is different from owning a mansion in LA.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This is the Washington Post story from last year where six of his victims (Tracy Sampson, Patrice Jones, Jerhonda Pace, Asante McGee, Kitti Jones, and Lisa Van Allen) discussed the abuse they suffered. There is a lot of specific information about record executives and other music industry people who knew what R. Kelly was doing. After this article was published last year, Spotify, Pandora, and Apple stopped promoting R. Kelly (his music remained on their sites but was no longer on their playlists).

Edited January 9, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Koalagirl]

On 1/6/2019 at 10:45 PM, sereion said:

I'm surprised she declined to come forward for this documentary; especially since she's been vocal about the Me Too movement, and her story as victim herself.

Lady Gaga has come forward:  

https://people.com/music/lady-gaga-breaks-silence-working-with-r-kelly-sexual-assault/

[tanyak]

21 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

The Carey's made me so fucking angry.  I didn't feel bad for them at all; I feel bad for their daughter.  Their sole job was to protect her and they failed at every opportunity to do so.  They let that man around their child and continued to do so.  That they didn't end any interactions with him the first time he encouraged the daughter to "interview" with him solo is baffling, especially as they admitted they knew of his reputation.  (I'm my opinion, they should have NEVER brought their daughter around him in the first place). And they kept allowing these interactions for the promise of a damn career.  

 

I think they were afraid she would run way. The mom said that after the first visit in the hotel room, she basically would not shut up about it. It seems they were worried about what she would do next and wrote the first incident off.  They thought they were managing it by requiring an adult to be present. OK. Fine. But after the second incident at the studio, I would have been done with it. At that point, Kelly had showed them TWICE he wasn't on the up and up. They lost me when they agreed to let some record label lackey be in charge so that she could what? Tour with Kelly? I didn't quite understand why she couldn't stay home at that point. 

[configdotsys]

21 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

The Carey's made me so fucking angry.  I didn't feel bad for them at all; I feel bad for their daughter.  Their sole job was to protect her and they failed at every opportunity to do so.  They let that man around their child and continued to do so.  That they didn't end any interactions with him the first time he encouraged the daughter to "interview" with him solo is baffling, especially as they admitted they knew of his reputation.  (I'm my opinion, they should have NEVER brought their daughter around him in the first place). And they kept allowing these interactions for the promise of a damn career.  

I got angry at them because they were all about the "Our rule was that our daughter could never be alone with him." When they found out she met him alone and spoke to R. Kelly, his promise that a female would be watching her was enough for them to say okay.  At the same time though, I don't know what it was like to be in their shoes. They did not seem like uncaring parents at all. I just think like @Neurochick said, they just did not know.

Someone did try to intervene though. The person that wrote to the Chicago newspaper saying that he needed help. The problem is if those girls were the age of consent, there was nothing any of the outsiders: authorities, parents, etc. could do about it. Only those on the inside could have blown the lid off, but they wanted the money to keep rolling in and were not about to do anything to stop that. In addition to hush money, there may have been threats as well or perhaps members of Kelly's entourage had their own skeletons that they did not want outed.

I remember hearing a lot about him and the tape and trial and it just seemed that it was all about a money grab at the expense of children. The parents of the 14 year old probably sold out and took money not to appear at the trial. Aaliyah's parents never said anything and that's weird too. I saw a few people speculate here that they may have been trying to protect her image but her image is that of someone who married R. Kelly at 15 and in light of all this information that's flowing, makes that even more disturbing. I think his level of popularity at that time provided a huge wall of protection around him.

My heart completely broke for Jerhonda (I hope I spelled that correctly) when she matter of factly said, "I guess I just lost my virginity. Who's gonna say no to R.Kelly?" and he told her she'd have to work on her moaning skills. Apparently this young, inexperienced woman was not ready for prime time Kelly video. Her story was so terribly sad. They all were. My heart broke for all of them.

I don't condone crime but if the parents who were throwing rocks broke into that studio and were willing to be arrested in order to try and save their daughter, they may have gotten off. I don't know that I would have been able to resist doing that.

[sara416]

This documentary was so well done! I hate to say I liked it, because it is just filled with so many garbage humans. But the actual cinematic part was great. I knew about a lot of these things, but always kind of in my periphery. This documentary provided so many details that just horrified me to my core. 

My sociology brain was also pinging like crazy, especially during the last two segments. I know they talk a lot about race in this documentary, and clearly that is a huge element in all of this. But can we talk about SES for a minute? I keep thinking about these girls and where they came from. These parents who could take time off work to hunt down R. Kelly. One set of parents (I think it was the Carey's) made mention of hearing something and then getting on a flight "the next day" to Chicago. A last minute plane ticket is not cheap. And for both parents to be able to walk away from their life for an undetermined amount of time in order to track down their daughter? These girls, all of them, would have been so much worse off if they did not come from families with a comfortable or more income. One of the people in the last hour talked about how if you want to get away with kidnapping, kidnap a black girl. And it's sadly true. It makes me wonder if there were others who were of a much lower SES that did not have parents who could do these things and bring the attention to the issues. If these families were treated so badly, I don't even want to imagine what would have happened if some young girl and her family who lived in the projects had been involved. And it makes me think that maybe they were, and didn't want to bring attention to it, because you know they would have been "making thing up for the money" and would have had their lives ruined. 

I'm trying to make this all make sense in my head, it's like a long rambling thought about #metoo, #timesup, race, SES, and social justice and it'[s all rolling around in my head. 

[sadie]

It blew my mind that these parents brought their girls to him AFTER the porn trial! WTF? I mean really, what the freakin f$#k! The one dad saying well we kinds knew he was on trial but he was found not guilty so we figured he was okay was the most infuriating ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. I think we were supposed to put them in the “victim” camp, nope! They served their daughter up to this devil, for her I have all the sympathy in the world, these moranic parents never! I am stunned at people’s blind pursuit of money and fame. It’s not like he was on trial for a traffic ticket and it’s not like the information wasn’t out there, they have zero excuse for their current situation. 

This series has just been fascinating to me as a study in human nature and the horrors we as a society allow. Whoever said if he did these things to little white girls he would have been hung out to dry was spot on. A very sick indictment of society today. I hope this scum bag has to finally face the music (no pun intended) now that this is back in the spotlight.

[gunderda]

3 hours ago, sara416 said:

This documentary was so well done! I hate to say I liked it, because it is just filled with so many garbage humans. But the actual cinematic part was great. I knew about a lot of these things, but always kind of in my periphery. This documentary provided so many details that just horrified me to my core. 

My sociology brain was also pinging like crazy, especially during the last two segments. I know they talk a lot about race in this documentary, and clearly that is a huge element in all of this. But can we talk about SES for a minute? I keep thinking about these girls and where they came from. These parents who could take time off work to hunt down R. Kelly. One set of parents (I think it was the Carey's) made mention of hearing something and then getting on a flight "the next day" to Chicago. A last minute plane ticket is not cheap. And for both parents to be able to walk away from their life for an undetermined amount of time in order to track down their daughter? These girls, all of them, would have been so much worse off if they did not come from families with a comfortable or more income. One of the people in the last hour talked about how if you want to get away with kidnapping, kidnap a black girl. And it's sadly true. It makes me wonder if there were others who were of a much lower SES that did not have parents who could do these things and bring the attention to the issues. If these families were treated so badly, I don't even want to imagine what would have happened if some young girl and her family who lived in the projects had been involved. And it makes me think that maybe they were, and didn't want to bring attention to it, because you know they would have been "making thing up for the money" and would have had their lives ruined. 

I'm trying to make this all make sense in my head, it's like a long rambling thought about #metoo, #timesup, race, SES, and social justice and it'[s all rolling around in my head. 

The 14(?) year old girl that he met from her waiting outside of his trial - it seemed like she didn't come from a well off family. She said her mom worked a lot and didn't notice where she was.  But my question... if she didn't really have a parent looking out for her.. how did she get out? Did she just one day decide to tell Kelly "peace out" and never come back?? All she said was "i was with him for a year" or something like that.  But I want to know how some of these girls managed to leave while others are obviously brainwashed and trapped.  Like the girl who snuck out of the hotel with her mom.  Everyone who left, was it always that complicated or were there some girls that he just got tired of and let go?? 

 

I think I was in high school when he was charged with the sex tape thing.  And honestly when he was found 'not guilty' I think I believed he was ok and the not guilty verdict meant that he truly wasn't guilty. I live in Iowa, it's not that far from Chicago and either my head was in the clouds or word of how screwed up he was just didn't make it far from his camps. I don't remember much about it other than when it came out and thinking - wow, that's awful if true - and then found not guilty, so then it's like 'oh ok, moving on..' 

When I saw this series pop up on my tv guide I thought "hmm... did something happen with him? I think I remember him being portrayed as a creeper....is he still doing that shit?."  and then I watched it and oh my god...... I am horrified I ever liked any of his songs.  I wasn't a huge fan of his but some of his songs were catchy and apparently I was his prime demographic age wise. 

[DearEvette]

8 hours ago, configdotsys said:

I got angry at them because they were all about the "Our rule was that our daughter could never be alone with him." When they found out she met him alone and spoke to R. Kelly, his promise that a female would be watching her was enough for them to say okay.  At the same time though, I don't know what it was like to be in their shoes. They did not seem like uncaring parents at all. I just think like @Neurochick said, they just did not know.

Yeah, as I was watching as the Clary's were speaking I was thinking "you FOOLS!!" but then as I thought about them much later I am not as harsh on them.

I think their assertion that "well he was accused but he was found not guilty" isn't as clear cut as people assume.  I think on that statement and think it comes with a a massive amount of denial, an over-willingness to give the benefit of the doubt, and some hopefulness.  People simply don't want to think badly of someone they've always thought well of or have some emotional investment in.  Even when you hear terrible things about people, you always think you know best.  We are seeing this every day with women who come out with stories of sexual harassment, assault and abuse only for someone else to come to the abuser's defense with a "well he wasn't like that with me so he can't possibly be like that." 

I also think them insisting on things like one of them being present and sending their daughter and son out to be there was a smarter choice than straight up forbidding her to have anything to do with him.  It was a lesser of two evils.  Unless they were able, willing and had the resources to have had their daughter watched 24/7 then it is not inconceivable that she would have just left on her own where they had no control.  Their solution was to still try to have some semblance of control.   But as we saw that was just a semblance.  The older daughter got manhandled out and received death threats for the whole family.

So I do feel bad for them, they simply were out of their league and had no idea what they were dealing with in reality until it was too late.  I mean think about it, even with the rumors and the knowledge of Aaliyah and the pee tape, was anyone really aware that it was as bad as it was?  The brainwashing, Stockholm syndrome and sex cult stuff?  That was a surprise to me and I didn't think it could get worse than the pee tape.

Edited January 11, 2019 by DearEvette

[Enero]

13 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Yeah, as I was watching as the Clary's were speaking I was thinking "you FOOLS!!" but then as I thought about them much later I am not as harsh on them.

I think their assertion that "well he was accused but he was found not guilty" isn't as clear cut as people assume.  I think on that statement and think it comes with a a massive amount of denial, an over-willingness to give the benefit of the doubt, and some hopefulness.  People simply don't want to think badly of someone they've always thought well of or have some emotional investment in.  Even when you hear terrible things about people, you always think you know best.  We are seeing this every day with women who come out with stories of sexual harassment, assault and abuse only for someone else to come to the abuser's defense with a "well he wasn't like that with me so he can't possibly be like that." 

I think there was more going on with Azareil (?) than what was mentioned in the documentary. I recall the parents saying something about they didn't realize she was having the issues that she was having. Hence her being a prime candidate for RKelly's depravity.  So maybe she was having some depression issues before encountering Kelly, maybe she'd been harassed or abused in someway before, which made her even more vulnerable to Kelly?

That said, I do think the parents WERE blinded by the possibility of success and fame for their daughter, and as a result, they let this relationship go on when it should've been stopped. They stated that they would allow the relationship to continue provided that one of them were there at all times, but then they left her in the care of a handler from the record label (per Kelly's suggestion), which was essentially handing her over to Kelly. When the other daughter arrived in Chicago to "supervise" the work, Azareil (?) was already deeply entrenched in the cult, as evidenced by her fear of doing anything without asking RKelly first. 

I still say the parents were fools and made terrible decisions, and as a result their daughter is trapped with this monster. I can see an individual giving someone the benefit of the doubt if it is only themselves that is being put at risk, but this was their child. You don't take this type of risk when it comes to your children. You just don't. 

[doodlebug]

R Kelly's daughter, Buku Abi has issued a statement in which she essentially agrees that her father is a monster and that she and her siblings have not had any contact with him in years.  Her words were both heartfelt and heartbreaking.

Quote

"The same monster you all confronting me about is my father," Buku added. "I am well aware of who and what he is. I grew up in that house. My choice to not speak on him and what he does is for my peace of mind. My emotional state. And for MY healing. I have to do & move in a manner that is best for me. I pray anyone who reads this understands I put nothing but good intent behind each word.

https://www.ajc.com/entertainment/kelly-daughter-buku-abi-distances-herself-family-from-singer/jNTJIEPKq9o73eiEADvDmL/

[luckyroll3]

56 minutes ago, Enero said:

I still say the parents were fools and made terrible decisions, and as a result their daughter is trapped with this monster. I can see an individual giving someone the benefit of the doubt if it is only themselves that is being put at risk, but this was their child. You don't take this type of risk when it comes to your children. You just don't. 

Exactly.  This was my problem with them.  

40 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

R Kelly's daughter, Buku Abi has issued a statement in which she essentially agrees that her father is a monster and that she and her siblings have not had any contact with him in years.  Her words were both heartfelt and heartbreaking.

https://www.ajc.com/entertainment/kelly-daughter-buku-abi-distances-herself-family-from-singer/jNTJIEPKq9o73eiEADvDmL/

It pisses me off that people on social media keep harassing her for a response and are trying to shame her for not commenting on the doc.  The girl has her own shit she needs to work through and not everyone needs to share their personal journeys with the fucking world.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was just shaking my head when the tour manager Demetrius said that R. Kelly came to him and they prayed together because he couldn't stop videotaping having sex with these girls. Yes, obviously THAT'S the problem (the videotaping), not the actual act of having sex with younger girls. WTF?

It never ceases to amaze me how far people will go to rationalize the lies so that they don't have to believe that a celebrity did something awful. People think because someone makes movies or songs that they like, they know this celebrity well enough to know what they would or would not do.

On a shallow note, I totally remember those blue and green plaid Mickey Mouse hats that R. Kelly and Aaliyah were wearing. I had the Tigger one from the Disney Store.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Illinois rejects proposed spring break concert starring R. Kelly in Springfield

Chicago radio station pulls R. Kelly music in wake of 'Surviving R. Kelly' docuseries

Edited January 13, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snewtsie]

I've watched the 6 episodes twice now, and I can't shake the sick, haunted feeling knowing this creep is still out there keeping young women as his sex slaves and actively hunting for new girls. I really feel for the families. Their daughters are adults and the families are powerless to do anything. 

I'm also simply amazed at how so many girls (and families) honestly believe he will help boost their singing careers. They are willing to overlook so many red flags for the promise of fame & fortune. And then in the aftermath, it makes me sick knowing how his victims have settled out of court for unspecified amount of money. The money will never make it better, but I guess they felt he had all the power and they were lucky to at least be able to live more comfortably.

Most of all, I'm haunted by whether the 14 year old in the sex/pee tape is still with him. Is she The Trainer? Or is it another woman who he brainwashed at 14? And while we know of Azriel & Jocelyn, how many other girls & young women are there who simply weren't named in the documentary because they sadly have no family looking for them?

R Kelly is pure evil. Thank goodness the makers of this documentary were brave enough to produce it and get it aired. 

[Adiba]

On 1/11/2019 at 4:22 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was just shaking my head when the tour manager Demetrius said that R. Kelly came to him and they prayed together because he couldn't stop videotaping having sex with these girls. Yes, obviously THAT'S the problem (the videotaping), not the actual act of having sex with younger girls. WTF?

It never ceases to amaze me how far people will go to rationalize the lies so that they don't have to believe that a celebrity did something awful. People think because someone makes movies or songs that they like, they know this celebrity well enough to know what they would or would not do.

On a shallow note, I totally remember those blue and green plaid Mickey Mouse hats that R. Kelly and Aaliyah were wearing. I had the Tigger one from the Disney Store.

The tour manager was more concerned with videotaping because under federal law, anyone under the age of 18 may not be videotaped in a sexuality explicit act, no matter what the age of consent is in the state where it occurred.

[jhlipton]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:13 PM, Liamsmom617 said:

I missed a lot so am watching the re-air now. Still baffled that this sick bastard isn’t behind bars. 

On 1/5/2019 at 5:46 PM, Neurochick said:

I think what happened was, Kelly was making so much money for the record companies, for executives, for hangers on, for everyone, and no one wanted the gravy train to stop.

There's this, but also, as others have said, he was preying on Black girls.  If he had tried this s*** with white girls, he would have killed before a trial could start.

On 1/6/2019 at 8:50 PM, Irlandesa said:

All Legend really offered is some context to R Kelly's success.  And I don't think any condemnation is going to be as powerful as the victims and the people behind the movement to #muteRKelly.

I think this is why Lady Gaga didn't appear in the documentary.  She would have little factual information to add, and coming forward later was the right step.

[Neko]

Just watched the documentary in full on Hulu.  I was a young teenager when Aaliyah's first album was released, but since I didn't listen to a lot of R&B back then, I was only vaguely familiar with the weirdness of her relationship with R. Kelly.  I didn't know until very recently that they had actually gotten married, and that R. Kelly had documents forged to lie about her age.  Hearing stories from the people who were there to see it unfold, and the creepy interview from 1994 made me feel like I needed to take a shower.  Aaliyah was a damn child, and no amount of baggy clothes or street slang could disguise that.  I wonder how an interview like that would go down, today, where a near 30 year old producer/mentor is dressed just like his 15 year old protege, in matching Mickey Mouse clothes?  I kept wondering why the interviewers were doing their best to smooth over any controversy, but I had to remind myself that it was a different time, and that R&A were not giving them any direct answers.  Still, the entire time I was watching that footage, my 2019 mind was thinking, "Why isn't anyone getting that girl to a safe place, away from that creep?!  WTF??".

I did know about the infamous pee tape, but I had no idea about the modern day sex cult R, Kelly was running.  Jesus H. Christ, I hope they are able to put him behind bars.  The man is a monster, and he should have been stopped, 30 years ago.  It's a fucking disgrace that he had a career, at all.  Aside from that, I always thought his music sucked; I Believe I Can Fly is a corny song, and Bump 'N Grind is gross.  I never had any strong opinions about his other songs, but I was surprised to learn that he wrote Outrageous, for Britney Spears.  Won't be listening to that one, anymore.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, Shakma said:

I always thought his music sucked; I Believe I Can Fly is a corny song, and Bump 'N Grind is gross.  I never had any strong opinions about his other songs, but I was surprised to learn that he wrote Outrageous, for Britney Spears.  Won't be listening to that one, anymore.

I agree. The only song he wrote that I thought was halfway decent was Michael Jackson's "You Are Not Alone." I have no problem never listening to any of his songs again. I guess it's not really a boycott since I didn't listen to his music in the first place.

[configdotsys]

20 hours ago, Shakma said:

 Aside from that, I always thought his music sucked; I Believe I Can Fly is a corny song, and Bump 'N Grind is gross.  I never had any strong opinions about his other songs, but I was surprised to learn that he wrote Outrageous, for Britney Spears.  Won't be listening to that one, anymore.

People like him are geniuses when it comes to manipulation. How to ingratiate yourself and collect adoring fans of all ages? Write a corny, "uplifting" song that becomes a staple at kids' kindergarten through high school graduations and weddings and parties and you'll cultivate a large group of people who will say, "But he wrote such a beautiful song, I don't believe he would ever do something like that." His corny songs are his insurance policy.  

It makes me crazy to see people on TV saying, "I just don't believe [insert famous person here] would ever do something like that. S/he seems so nice." 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

Does anyone know where I can watch this if I don't have a TV?

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Does anyone know where I can watch this if I don't have a TV?

Episodes are available on the Lifetime network website.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

Just now, doodlebug said:

Episodes are available on the Lifetime network website.

It says you have to sign in with TV provider information to watch it on their website. Actually I just found out you can buy it on Google Play/Youtube so I'll be doing that.