S04.E09: Elseworlds Part III (2018.12.11)

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Even that was a mistake since he was trying to become Barry himself.  And then he was like, Flash who?  I'm going to be that Superman guy!!!

😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

True, if Batwoman gets picked up though and if BL are willing to play ball (I wont be mad if they dont tbh)

They should just have all the CW shows have red skies that week without explanation.

[quarks]

Well, if you ignore the slight issue that very little of that made sense, that was fun!

Good things:

1. Crisis on Infinite Earths! 

Which I sincerely hope will include Black Lightning. I know that would create some production issues, but work with them!

2. The CW's unofficial announcement that Flash, Arrow and Supergirl would be back in Fall 2019! I laughed.

3. Batwoman deciding that of her two options, calling Oliver is the better bet. Heh.

4. Superman crushed coal to make a diamond for Lois! AWWWWWWW!

5. And to set the romantic mood, Lois decided to put on her 1970s dress! AWWWwww....ok, frankly, that was just fanservice, so not really all that awww. But a nice touch.

6. James was a) in this and b) not instantly dead, which counts as an improvement.

Also, Superman's Worst Pal. I laughed.

7. Tyler Hoechlin was really good in this, as Superman/Clark and Deegan.

8. Really liked the Kara/Alex moments. Yeah, that all happened way too quickly and Alex should have been far less trusting, but I love their sister moments.

9. Gary! Not really the Legends of Tomorrow cameo I wanted, but I will accept that Team Legends is busy this season and not interested in making this an annual thing.

10. Carlos Valdes always has fun playing evil, and it was fun to let him do that here.

11. Barry complaining that they had to head to the Fortress of Solitude after just getting back from the Fortress of Solitude.

12. Oliver going up to the Monitor and yelling at him, and then shooting the book. YAY!

13. Also, Oliver knocking out both Diggle and Caitlin in the elevator.

14. Oliver and Barry enjoying their traditional annual bonding scene before heading off to not speak to each other for months.

15. NO WAREHOUSES. It was like a little Arrowverse miracle!

Questionable things:

1. Convenient for Deegan to end up in the cell next to Psycho Pirate instead of, say, Oswald Cobblepot, wouldn't you say?

2. Who was the dweeb dating Pam in HR?

3. Why was everyone just standing around in light jackets in the ARCTIC? I get that Clark and Kara probably don't feel the cold and Barry can just, I dunno, shiver fast enough to stay warm, but Oliver, Cisco and Lois should have been COLD.

4. To answer the question of how everyone was just able to use the book....Nah. I got nothing. How was everyone just able to use the book?

5. I was happy to see them, but how exactly did J'onn and Brainy get there? J'onn was kinda partly from Kara's brain, like Alex, I guess, but Brainy?

6. "This is becoming an annual thing." "God, I hope not."

I know, Barry. Script anvils like this hurt me, too.

7. This is more of an overall crossover complaint, but Lois and Kara and Iris didn't get to meet and swap journalism stories. That was sad.

8. Caitlin's wig. Loved the lipstick; the wig was distracting.

9. What - what - did Oliver sacrifice to ensure we get crossovers next year? DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

10. Slowing the earth's rotation slowed time?

11. Did Einstein, catching a hint of this episode, consider rising up from his grave and rushing over to ghost some sense into the Arrowverse writers?

12. Why was Supergirl's skin burning up when she was running around at Mach-7? She's gone faster when she's popped up above the atmosphere in previous episodes without setting herself on fire? And why didn't she show a single scorch mark after that? I get that Barry went immediately into super-healing mode but when Kara gets injured she does have to heal, right? 

13. How did Oliver manage to get this much kryptonite for his arrows, and does he always pull the kryptonite arrows out every December now just in case a random crossover appears? And why doesn't Google Chrome recognize that "kryptonite" is too a word?

Bad things:

1. What the hell happened with the lighting department during the Anti-Monitor space scenes? That's the worst lighting for a purely greenscreen shot we've seen since, hmm, season 3 of Arrow, I think. Geesh.

2. No Lena :(

3. These shows have come up with questionable excuses before this to keep the superpowered guys busy so the non-superpowered guys can still do stuff, but "let's run really really fast to slow down the Earth's rotation" has got to be among the worst.

4. Also, slowing the earth's rotation could stop the bad guy, maybe, but could also CAUSE A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES, BARRY, like, just as a start, really screwing with the weather. And maybe starting a few earthquakes. Did you not think about this?  You're supposed to have an interest in science!

5. To be fair, though, Supergirl didn't think about that either - Earth's rotation slowed? Not a problem! Didn't change a single cloud.

6. I'm also not at all sure how just running very very very fast would slow down the rotation of any planet, but I guess I'm spending too much time on this.

7. If this leads to Oliver keeping yet another secret from Felicity after a crossover I may scream Berlanti's ears off.  

Definitely looking forward to Crisis on Infinite Earths next season, though. Assuming the lighting is better.

[MadyGirl1987]

Really enjoyed the conclusion. It was a lot of fun with great action. Was great to see Brainy, J’onn and Lois show up to help save the day.

I loved Clark and Lois here. Would love to have a show with them. They were especially adorable together in the final Fortress of Solitude scene. I would love to see a show with them tracking down and reporting stories, fighting crime and raising their Super-baby. With visits to and from Aunt Kara(I know she is his cousin but she will totally be like an aunt to that kid) of course.

[legaleagle53]

14 minutes ago, quarks said:

Bad things:

4. Also, slowing the earth's rotation could stop the bad guy, maybe, but could also CAUSE A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES, BARRY, like, just as a start, really screwing with the weather. And maybe starting a few earthquakes. Did you not think about this?  You're supposed to have an interest in science!

5. To be fair, though, Supergirl didn't think about that either - Earth's rotation slowed? Not a problem! Didn't change a single cloud.

6. I'm also not at all sure how just running very very very fast would slow down the rotation of any planet, but I guess I'm spending too much time on this.

It wouldn't.  Einstein's theory is that if a person travels fast enough, time will slow down for the traveler relative to everyone and everything else; that's why it's the Theory of Relativity.  The Earth would only appear to have slowed down from Barry and Kara's point of view -- for everyone else, it would still be rotating at normal speed.  And Barry and Kara would have to be going a damn sight faster than Mach 7 to slow down time -- they'd actually have to be traveling at very close to the speed of light.

Edited December 12, 2018 by legaleagle53

[scarynikki12]

8 minutes ago, quarks said:

And why doesn't Google Chrome recognize that "kryptonite" is too a word?

Hee! The best part of this is that Superman terms have been in the general public's lexicon for almost a century.  Google is faaaaaaaar behind.

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

It wouldn't.  Einstein's theory is that if a person travels fast enough, time will slow down for the traveler relative to everyone and everything else; that's why it's the Theory of Relativity.  The Earth would only have appeared to have slowed down from Barry and Kara's point of view -- for everyone else, it would still be rotating at normal speed.  And Barry and Kara would have to be going a damn sight faster than Mach 7 to slow down time -- they'd actually have to be traveling at very close to the speed of light.

That, plus, they were running on the planet, not pushing the planet. 

Not to mention that last I checked, the Earth is also going around the sun (moving) and the sun is also traveling along with the Milky Way (moving), so even if the Earth's rotation slows, it's still in motion.

[legaleagle53]

10 minutes ago, quarks said:

That, plus, they were running on the planet, not pushing the planet. 

Not to mention that last I checked, the Earth is also going around the sun (moving) and the sun is also traveling along with the Milky Way (moving), so even if the Earth's rotation slows, it's still in motion.

And by the way, this should also clear up a very common misconception about the ending of Superman I and Superman II.  Einstein's theory also holds that if one were to travel faster than light, time would move in reverse direction relative to everyone and everything else. That's why it's always bugged me that people claimed that Superman made the Earth spin backwards simply by flying in orbit around it against the direction of the Earth's rotation.  That's not what he did.  What he did was begin moving backwards in time relative to everyone else once he reached transluminal velocity -- from his point of view, the Earth appeared to be rotating backwards because he was moving backwards in time, and it appeared that way to viewers because they were moving back in time along with him.  The Earth itself never reversed its rotation.

Edited December 12, 2018 by legaleagle53

[angora]

I liked it, but as with Sunday’s Flash, it felt like a better crossover episode than Supergirl episode.  It was a bummer that Kara was so sidelined on her own show, and we just got cameos from most of the other characters.  Still, I liked the Danvers Sisters Love transcending parallel worlds and alternate realities, and Brainy being low-key excited at fighting a robot with the powers of Superman was fun.

I liked Oliver being the big hero here in a less overt way, even if he’s clearly gotten himself into a new something awful.  I’m not an Arrow watcher, but this episode is the most I’ve enjoyed Oliver in a crossover.  

Barry complaining about having to go “back” to the Fortress of Solitude on Earth-1 after just having been there on Earth-38 made me laugh

I really liked that Evil Superman was actually Deegan.  As soon as Barry and Oliver realized who he really was, you could see the Jeremy Davies notes Tyler Hoechlin was bringing to that performance - really nicely done, and it was cooler to have Supergirl, Superman, and co. fight a villain who’s stolen Superman’s face and powers rather than an alternate reality version of our Superman.  (Still loving TH’s Superman.  The Smallville scene at the end, and the Fortress of Solitude scene, were both great.  Too bad that he and Lois are going off to Argo, but the writers finally have a valid answer for, “The world is on fire, why is no one calling Superman?”)

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, angora said:

Too bad that he and Lois are going off to Argo, but the writers finally have a valid answer for, “The world is on fire, why is no one calling Superman?”)

Of course, that's not to say that Superman wouldn't be there in a heartbeat if Earth and/or Kara really needed him -- in fact, Lois would probably insist on it even if she were due to give birth any second.  After all, Aunt Alura would be right there if Lois needed help.

[Simba122504]

Wait, how can SG protect two cities?  Um,  there's this little place called Metropolis that Superman protects and Clark Kent works as a reporter along side one of the best ones in the city,  Lois Lane. Who's protecting it?  Also wouldn't Perry White and everyone else wonder why Clark Kent and Lois Lane disappeared along with Superman? Unless they made up story but what about the city?  Okay she cannot give birth under the yellow sun because it's dangerous but Superboy/Conner Kent (someone to protect the city) clearly doesn't exist on their earth yet.  We seen CoIE coming!  Oliver, what did you do?  It would be great if he tells Felicity and she keeps the secret too until it comes out next Fall.  That goes against television's obsession with secrets and the only ones who would know would be them.  That also shows loyalty and trust between two people. Tyler and the actress (her names escapes me)  had great chemistry and she was fun. Perfect casting. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Still no sign of Kasnian Supergirl.  Would Deegan have even known about her ?  He could see "everything".

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

2. Who was the dweeb dating Pam in HR?

That had to be a Winn reference.  He began Supergirl working in IT for CatCo, Deegan would have had to make mention of him due to his relationship with the Danvers sisters, and he has a history with Pam from HR.  Just a nice little easter egg since Jeremy Jordan is off doing other things.

[Cthulhudrew]

1) This episode demonstrates how criminally underutilized Chyler Leigh has been on this season of Supergirl. 

2) What happened to Deegan's face? I don't think his comic counterpart has a messed up face (IIRC he wears a mask) and in any event this new face doesn't resemble the comic version.

3) If the next event is Crisis, does that mean they're merging all the DCU tv shows into one world? (At least the CW ones?)

4) Is the promo photo for Crisis going to be Barry holding a dead and battered Oliver in his arms while everyone else stands around crying?

5) Am I even going to care much unless I shut my brain off when I watch it?

[BkWurm1]

23 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Still no sign of Kasnian Supergirl.  Would Deegan have even known about her ?  He could see "everything".

-She's on E38 and the book was only on E1 so he wouldn't know

[Trini]

Well, congrats to all those who know and care about Crisis. As someone who hasn’t read the comics, the closing scene didn’t really have much impact. I still don’t know who the masked guy is supposed to be, and why I should care.

Wow, so they literally saved the best for last. Strongest episode of the three; stuff actually happened! Lots of action, but also stakes, heart, and humor.

Having the villain do the opening monologue was amusing.

Pretty sure you can’t knock down a giant crane with a handgun (yes, I know it was already weakened), but TV physics, I guess!

So there’s an Alex Danvers on Earth-1? Interesting…. Please let this come up later. I’d love another Flash/Supergirl crossover.

Loved seeing another evil version of Cisco. (I still miss you, Reverb!) Speaking of other versions: I don’t understand why they had Killer Frost appear in these other two parts when she didn’t do anything related to her strengths/powers. And she gets knocked out in a fight for the THIRD time in as many episodes. Do people just like the white wig?

Were Iris or Felicity mentioned at all in this one?

Okay, I must have missed how Lois, J’onn, and Brainy made it to Earth-1. It wasn’t Cisco(whichever version), I don’t think?

 

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

And I guess we know now why this crossover kept hitting us over the head with the "Oliver is DAAAAAARRRRRKKKKK!" plot point - to set this contrived ending up.

I mean, Oliver isn’t my favorite character, but even I was surprised they were started calling him out on his darkness for the third episode in a row. They're were committed to a theme, I guess.

There were a lot of good moments here, though. The Kara/Alex talk was great. Glad they found time for that in the crossover craziness.

Also most of Barry’s reactions to things; like Alex getting him in a headlock - hee! And the fist bump with Supergirl. There wasn’t enough Barry/Kara for me in this crossover.

Tyler was really good as Deegan-Superman. Clark and Lois were cute together! I’m glad for the explanation for Superman’s future absence, but I’m still disappointed that we won’t be seeing him and Lois for a while — probably not until the next crossover.

Speaking of Lois, I’m glad they let her be a part of the action; however, now I’m even more disgusted that they didn’t want to find a way to let Iris crossover to the other episodes. At the very least, she could have been there at the goodbyes at STAR Labs.

So, what was the deal Oliver made with the monitor? It wasn’t clear to me if the team’s plan worked, or if the Monitor did something.

Is Guggenheim going to be in charge of next year’s crossover too?

Edited December 12, 2018 by Trini

[Moya the Leviathan]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

I know, Barry. Script anvils like this hurt me, too.

Thank God fanfic bandages/medication will be available shortly. 

[BkWurm1]

25 minutes ago, Trini said:

Okay, I must have missed how Lois, J’onn, and Brainy made it to Earth-1. It wasn’t Cisco(whichever version), I don’t think?

They didn't say but in the past Barry gave Kara one of those breach thingies so I assume they had it to use since Kara went with Barry and Oliver on the one they'd used.  Or Clark had something in the Fortress.  Lots of options.  

[VCRTracking]

As I said on the part 2 thread I enjoyed this crossover a lot because we got to see the main trio of Barry, Oliver and Kara interact and I really love their dynamic.

Hilarious that in part 1 there was concern about Barry going "too dark" when he was Oliver but almost vomiting when he committed one bad act!

Tyler Hoechlin was great as both DeeganSuperman and the real thing.

Gary!  Legends of Tomorrow got to participate in the crossover after all!

Barry finding out the hard way Alex Danvers on Earth-1 is also a badass was the best!

Loved all the Clois stuff, especially the proposal in the Fortress.

I am excited but also dreading Crisis on Infinite Earth next year.

Edited December 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[ruby24]

Does Supergirl have 22 or 23 episodes this season?

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Is Deegen a comic character?  I'm assuming given the weird face he ended up with.  Also, boo that it seems clear there will be more of launching Batwoman on Arrow.

5 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

He's Dr. Destiny in the comics, whose MO is using dreams to warp reality.

 

In one of the weirder bits of quasi-continuity, Jeremy Davies played a different character, Ritchie Simpson, in Constantine and Justice League Dark. Justice League Dark was originally supposed to be in continuity with Constantine and a sequel to the show. It didn't quite end up that way. However in Justice League Dark, Ritchie Simpson used a magical talisman to turn himself into Doctor Destiny. So Jeremy Davies plays two different characters, one of which is sort of in the Arrowverse via Constantine, that end up as the same villain.

[Trini]

Good to know that Oliver being fueled by darkness/anger/vengence/hubris wasn't petty shade, but an actual plot point.

Black Lightning is way too good to get mixed up in Arrow-verse nonsense; I hope it doesn't get connected to the other shows.

In Crisis, major characters die, right? But they're not going to kill off any leads in the middle of the season, so... the stakes are not that high.

[BaggythePanther]

11 minutes ago, Trini said:

Black Lightning is way too good to get mixed up in Arrow-verse nonsense; I hope it doesn't get connected to the other shows.

In Crisis, major characters die, right? But they're not going to kill off any leads in the middle of the season, so... the stakes are not that high.

I’m torn about Black Lightning. There are some characters I’d like to see the BL cast interact with but I don’t want the show involved on a yearly basis. And considering the fact that BL films in Atlanta, I doubt the show will ever be truly integrated into the Arrowverse.

Supergirl and the Flash die in the Crisis. I doubt they’re going to kill two of their leads so I’m curious to see what they’ll do.

[Trini]

6 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

Supergirl and the Flash die in the Crisis. I doubt they’re going to kill two of their leads so I’m curious to see what they’ll do.

For Flash, they could do a time remnant. Can't think of how they'd resurrect Supergirl. I have a feeling time travel might not be an option.

[Perfect Xero]

I just don't understand how Barry and Kara were helping at the end? They slowed time down, but they slowed it for everyone, so what was it accomplishing?

[thuganomics85]

And so Elseworlds ends like most of the D.C. shows tend to end: the bad guy is defeated thanks to Barry running very fast, Kara flying real fast, and Oliver making some kind of sacrifice that will no doubt cause not just him, but those he love major hardship, but gosh darn-it, that's the only way Oliver knows how to do things!

So, Deegan's new world basically made all of the good guys either become bad guys or considered bad guys.  Carlos Valdes really seemed to be enjoying playing "Mr. Ramon" in particular.  And Tyler Hoechlin was great at playing "Deegan as Superman."  Really made him feel like the polar opposite of Clark/Supes.

Glad they worked in how important the Kara and Alex relationship is, because it feels like that has been missing this season on Supergirl (because we need more time for the show to crush us with anvils reminding us of today's current, political events, dammit!)  Also liked how the majority of the cast showed up in roles, although I missed Lena.  They really couldn't find a way to work her in?

So, the Legends do find a way to work themselves into the crossover through Gary.  Who, of course, is totally into Oliver and Barry as a Crime Duo.  Classic Gary!

I guess Clark and Lois going to Argo City for good is one way to make an excuse why he isn't around to help Kara and the gang once shit really hits the fan later this season.

I guess Batwoman is going to pop in from time to time on Arrow?  Because right now, I'm not very wild about any potential spin-off with her.

Crisis on Infinite Earth is next, huh?

Overall, a fun enough crossover, but one of the weaker ones that was mainly held together by the chemistry and banter between Stephen Amell, Grant Gustin, and Melissa Benoist.  If nothing else, these things show that the casting directors struck gold with these three.  Which is why I want to hold out hope that maybe Ruby Rose has it in her somewhere to even have half of their charisma combined.

[jmonique]

I found it odd that Real Superman didn’t depower Deegan first thing.

I, too, am confused at how slowing down time was their best option? And why the unpowered Oliver wasn’t as affected.

The shot of Supergirl, Superman, Lois, Brainy and J’onn in front of the portal was so comic book that I loved it.

Good to see Ruby Rose is just as wooden on Supergirl as she was on Arrow. If you’re going to be mediocre, do it consistently.

Edited December 12, 2018 by jmonique

[legaleagle53]

On 12/12/2018 at 1:43 AM, Perfect Xero said:

I just don't understand how Barry and Kara were helping at the end? They slowed time down, but they slowed it for everyone, so what was it accomplishing?

Nothing, because they only slowed it down for themselves relative to everyone else.  For everyone else, time was still moving at normal speed. That's how the Theory of Relativity works, and it's also how Flashtime (which is apparently what they were going for) works.

Furthermore, they really weren't even traveling nearly fast enough to slow down time.  Mach 7 is a snail's pace compared to the speed that is really necessary to slow down time.  To slow down time, Barry and Kara would have to be traveling at close to the speed of light.

Edited December 14, 2018 by legaleagle53

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Still no sign of Kasnian Supergirl.  Would Deegan have even known about her ?  He could see "everything".

 

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

-She's on E38 and the book was only on E1 so he wouldn't know

Exactly. It's why he didn't know about Kara's past or where she came from, when he was monologing to her. Because she's from a different Earth.

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

They didn't say but in the past Barry gave Kara one of those breach thingies so I assume they had it to use since Kara went with Barry and Oliver on the one they'd used.  Or Clark had something in the Fortress.  Lots of options.  

Yup. I think it was after the first crossover--Barry or Cisco gave her the time breach gizmo, so they could "visit" each other more often. Just lip service, since we only ever see them visiting each other during the crossovers.

[ottoDbusdriver]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Exactly. It's why he didn't know about Kara's past or where she came from, when he was monologing to her. Because she's from a different Earth.

I forgot that the bulk of this episode took place on Earth-1, however, now that the Book of Destiny is destroyed does that mean all the other Earths that the Monitor was testing go back to normal ?  Or, for example, are all the dead heroes on Earth-90 still dead ?

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I forgot that the bulk of this episode took place on Earth-1, however, now that the Book of Destiny is destroyed does that mean all the other Earths that the Monitor was testing go back to normal ?  Or, for example, are all the dead heroes on Earth-90 still dead ?

That's what I want to know! Again with these crossovers, they never tie up the loose ends! And what was all that bullshit Monitor was spouting about Oliver's hubris. I know what hubris is. Oliver isn't full of hubris. If I took a shot every time he said "hubris" in that condescending and superior tone, I'd have been drunk within 20 minutes. Like I said in one of the other threads, while I have my issues and gripes about how a good portion of Oliver's history/story lines and rogues have been STOLEN/USURPED from Batman because Guggie couldn't do a Batman show, I LIKE Oliver. Even though I get frustrated with him at times. Then again, I'm a sucker for the tortured hero. Hence why 😍😍Bats😍😍 is my NUMERO UNO. just ask those who know me! @BkWurm1 can attest! 😆😆

That said, I'll probably watch all three, one after the other as one show to see how it all played out.

[kickingnames]

16 hours ago, phoenics said:

And I guess we know now why this crossover kept hitting us over the head with the "Oliver is DAAAAAARRRRRKKKKK!" plot point - to set this contrived ending up.

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

 

14 hours ago, quarks said:

7. If this leads to Oliver keeping yet another secret from Felicity after a crossover I may scream Berlanti's ears off. 

I fully expect it to, and I am fully prepared to rage about it. I have no idea why they think it’s okay to repeatedly have Felicity state her biggest issue is Oliver unilaterally keeping her in the dark about stuff, and then simultaneously have Oliver repeatedly keeping her in the dark about stuff. Prove me wrong about this for once, Arrowverse. Please.

 

This crossover ended up okay, but the even-numbered crossovers just haven’t been as good as the odd-numbered ones. Next year is number 5, right? Next year should be a doozy.

ETA: Apparently I completely blocked the 2nd crossover (the one that set up Legends) from my memory, so my number sequence was completely off. The 1st and 4th ones were the better ones of the bunch. This one (#5) is probably equal to or slightly above the 3rd one for me.

Edited December 12, 2018 by kickingnames
I left out a crossover!

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

Nothing, because they only slowed it down for themselves relative to everyone else.  For everyone else, time was still moving at normal speed. That's how the Theory of Relativity works, and it's also how Flashtime (which is apparently what they were going for) works.

Using Flashtime as we've seen it in previous episodes would have been a better idea, although who knows how a Kryptonian deals with that.  Maybe it would have ended up like that scene in Justice League.

While I'm sure SA was happy to not walk around in the Flash suit a lot of the fun was the body swap, so it's a shame that went away.  In addition, it looks like Barry wore the Arrow mask solely because he thought it looked cool given how Oliver has been outed and didn't bother with the mask or hood here.

[Starry]

Kara spent half of the episode locked up in a prison cell. On her own show. Though I did like her scenes with Alex and the little story she told her to make her believe her.

TH was very good as both Supermans. I still like Lois but I'm not sold on the couple. It's not like they're horrible or anything, they just don't do it for me just yet.

I'm sad that Lena and Nia were left out. Since they found something for James, J'onn and Brainy to do I was hoping to see more of the girls, especially after both Arrow and Flash excluded half of their female regulars from their episodes.

I died when Clark thought Kara and Cisco were swapped, lmao.

Barry was cute in this one even though they threatened to choke him twice.

It was destiny for Barry and Kara to die like this but since when? Because according to Flash Barry survives until 2024 and even then it's not like he dies, he just vanishes and doesn't come back for at least twenty-five years. Unless I missed something this episode made it sound like Barry and Kara would have died attempting to slow down time ( whatever! ) and the only reasons their destinies were altered was because Oliver bargained with the Monitor.

So next year it's Crisis on Infinite Earths. It should be the same comic story teased in the newspaper article. I hope there's a shake-up BTS because I'm sick and tired of having my favorite Flash characters exclued or diminished during these crossovers and that's story the show has teased since its first season ( if it is indeed the same Crisis ).

[GHScorpiosRule]

33 minutes ago, Starry said:

It was destiny for Barry and Kara to die like this but since when? Because according to Flash Barry survives until 2024 and even then it's not like he dies, he just vanishes and doesn't come back for at least twenty-five years. Unless I missed something this episode made it sound like Barry and Kara would have died attempting to slow down time ( whatever! ) and the only reasons their destinies were altered was because Oliver bargained with the Monitor.

Barry still hasn't returned. He disappeared in 2024 and 25 years have passed and he still hasn't returned. Hence the reason Nora went back to the past to prevent it from happening. Though now we know it won't happen this season. Maybe the show having the Crisis on Infinite Earths next year instead of 2024 is Nora's fuck up. Instead of preventing it, she will cause it to happen five years sooner!

Well Monitor messed with their destinies, so that's how I handwave Supes seeing them die in their attempt to stop Deegan. And then Oliver made that deal with him. UGH. You know who has hubris? That fucktoid Monitor. That's who.

I need to grab my copy of that and read up on it again. All I know is, that at least TWO heroes won't be in it.

Edited December 12, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[StaceyNotStacie]

This was fun. I really like Tyler’s Superman and think that he’s probably this generation’s best Superman. I’m just disappointed that the Legends (other than Gary the bartender) didn’t show up this time. I would have loved a scene with Kara, Clark and Ray. 

My only complaint about part 3 was that the Supergirl cast was they seemed like guest stars on their own show. Also, I wish that Alex’s hair would have gone back to normal once the spell was broken. 

I wonder if the CW poached the CGI people from Once Upon a Time because the graphics from the book (along with LoT’s finale episode) were practically identical. 

[Starry]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well Monitor messed with their destinies, so that's how I handwave Supes seeing them die in their attempt to stop Deegan. And then Oliver made that deal with him. UGH. You know who has hubris? That fucktoid Monitor. That's who.

So I have to see them dying in those particular circumstances as a part of the Monitor's test? I can accept that. I was confused about the word "destiny" because as far as I know Barry wasn't destined to die like that or this soon. I was afraid this was another giant plot hole.

[KenyaJ]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Good to know that Oliver being fueled by darkness/anger/vengence/hubris wasn't petty shade, but an actual plot point.

An extremely contrived plot point, because Oliver hasn’t been that guy for the past 5 seasons. If the writers have to ignore seasons worth of character development to make a story work, they need to consider a different story. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

54 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

This was fun. I really like Tyler’s Superman and think that he’s probably this generation’s best Superman. 

Agreed, Tyler does a really great job in his Superman portrayal.

[benteen]

That was definitely the weakest of three Elseworld crossovers and didn't stick the landing.  That was a bit of a mess but there was some good stuff there to be sure.  I enjoy having these crossovers during the Christmas season greatly.

I'm a Marvel reader so I never read Crisis on Infinite Earths but I'm REALLY excited for the crossover next year.  The Arrowverse shows have pulled off a lot over the years and I really want to see them pull this off.

Of course Oliver made some kind of terrible deal that he'll keep secret.  Because it's Oliver.

Mr. Ramone was a lot of fun here.

Really loved the little fist bump that Barry and Kara give at the end.  They do have amazing chemistry.

Tyler does do a great job as Superman.

Was that actually the real Gary undercover from the Time Bureau?

Probably the weakest of the various crossovers but still a great amount of fun.

[marcee]

Can someone tell me who the guy in the gold mask is supposed to be and why it matters that he's locked up next to Deegan?

Also, count me as one who did not enjoy RR as Batwoman. Blegh. I much prefer her as the lead singer of Evermoist.

For everyone wondering why Supergirl and Flash would've burned up at Mach 7.... it wasn't because of Mach 7, it was because Deegan "wrote" it that way.

[Quark]

This was definitely the best episode of the crossover. Overall though, I'm not particularly impressed.

It was nice seeing Oliver, Barry and Kara hang out, but I do sense some sort of awkwardness between Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist. The other interactions were all great though.

I laughed a lot at Superman thinking Cisco was Kara. Hilarious. Clark is awesome and Tyler Hoechlin is great. It would be really fun to add a Superman series to the Arrowverse.

Kate Kane's cameo at the end was so pointless. Really unimpressed with her.

I don't think Oliver made some massive sacrifice to The Monitor. For starters, Oliver is supposed to be alive in the flash forwards on Arrow (at least, no one has mentioned that he is dead). Also, if Oliver did make some big sacrifice, then Stephen Amell played it atrociously post-sacrifice.

I feel like this crossover could have felt bigger, but it didn't. If next years crossover, which seems to be a massive deal, is done in the same format as this one, I'm not going to be impressed.

Kara, Barry and Superman were definitely the highlights overall. Also, more Iris next year!

Edited December 12, 2018 by Quark

[VCRTracking]

38 minutes ago, marcee said:

Can someone tell me who the guy in the gold mask is supposed to be and why it matters that he's locked up next to Deegan?

Psycho Pirate aka Roger Hayden. He was a DC B-level villain with the ability to manipulate emotions. His role in the Crisis comic from Wikipedia:
 

Quote

In the Crisis on Infinite Earths limited series, the Monitor recruits Hayden—who goes on to help Firestorm recruit Killer Frost to the Monitor's team by making her fall in love with her enemy—but he is abducted by the Anti-Monitor. In exchange for an entire world to play with, Psycho-Pirate becomes an accomplice to the Anti-Monitor, manipulating a captive Barry Allen, his powers briefly being enhanced so that he can control the remaining three alternate Earths—Earth-4, Earth-S, and Earth-X—so that their heroes are provoked into attacking the teams sent to rescue them, although use of his powers on this scale causes him to "burn out" so that he cannot use his powers again afterward. Although the Anti-Monitor constantly belittles the Psycho-Pirate, he keeps him around because his emotion-manipulating abilities may prove useful, and the Anti-Monitor lacks the time to find or create someone else with those powers. After the resolution of the Crisis, Psycho-Pirate is one of the few to have full memories of the event. Driven mad by these memories, the Psycho-Pirate is shown in the last few panels of Crisis in a straitjacket, as the scene pans out from his eyes to a full view of Earth from space.

Edited December 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm kind of interested in where the Book of Destiny came from.  It looked old, but who created it ? Was it from the past ? The future ? Which Earth was it created on ?
The Monitor didn't seem to indicate that he invented it --  and it was crazy powerful to not only rewrite current time but the entire history of events.

I had to laugh at Barry and Oliver as the Trigger Twins with the bandanas while they were running.
 

[mrspidey]

16 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

 

I guess when the next crossover happens we'll learn what Oliver came up with to maintain the balance.

Maybe it is...the Anti Monitor!

[mrspidey]

14 hours ago, quarks said:

 

6. I'm also not at all sure how just running very very very fast would slow down the rotation of any planet, but I guess I'm spending too much time on this.

Not sure about running, but spinning in the proper direction robs Earth of angular momentum. So if you were to spin around fast enough you would slow down the day and night cycle. Not time though...

Edited December 12, 2018 by mrspidey

[Trini]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Really loved the little fist bump that Barry and Kara give at the end.  They do have amazing chemistry.

I really needed more of my Super Friends in this crossover. Also would have loved some Kara/Iris interaction.

[TV Anonymous]

16 hours ago, quarks said:

4. Superman crushed coal to make a diamond for Lois! AWWWWWWW!

5. And to set the romantic mood, Lois decided to put on her 1970s dress! AWWWwww....ok, frankly, that was just fanservice, so not really all that awww. But a nice touch.

 

3. Why was everyone just standing around in light jackets in the ARCTIC? I get that Clark and Kara probably don't feel the cold and Barry can just, I dunno, shiver fast enough to stay warm, but Oliver, Cisco and Lois should have been COLD.

 

10. Slowing the earth's rotation slowed time?

4. Also, slowing the earth's rotation could stop the bad guy, maybe, but could also CAUSE A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES, BARRY, like, just as a start, really screwing with the weather. And maybe starting a few earthquakes. Did you not think about this?  You're supposed to have an interest in science!

5. To be fair, though, Supergirl didn't think about that either - Earth's rotation slowed? Not a problem! Didn't change a single cloud.

6. I'm also not at all sure how just running very very very fast would slow down the rotation of any planet, but I guess I'm spending too much time on this.

I think with the exception of no. 3, all of those are throwbacks to Chris Reeve's (RIP) Superman. If that Superman can turn back the time just by flying around the Earth in the opposite direction as its rotation, why not slowing down the time?

As for no. 3, one may posit that the Fortress of Solitude have an excellent HVAC system?

[Winston Wolfe]

14 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Tyler Hoechlin was great as both DeeganSuperman and the real thing.

TH is now my second favorite Superman behind the legendary Christopher Reeve.  Dude has totally nailed the part.

4 hours ago, Quark said:

It was nice seeing Oliver, Barry and Kara hang out, but I do sense some sort of awkwardness between Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist. The other interactions were all great though.

Now that its been pointed out a couple of times I see it too.  Wonder if there is/was some off-screen friction between the two.  GG and MB have a wonderful brother/sister vibe, though.

6 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

My only complaint about part 3 was that the Supergirl cast was they seemed like guest stars on their own show. Also, I wish that Alex’s hair would have gone back to normal once the spell was broken. 

Funny thing is, I almost didn't recognize Alex at first.  It's always amazed me how some women can change their hairstyle and look like and entirely different person.  Not Kara, however.

Really would have liked seeing how easily Brainy disposed of the giant robot (Amazo?) when the others working in concert couldn't.  Loved Brainy as more of an action hero though.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[Quark]

15 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Now that its been pointed out a couple of times I see it too.  Wonder if there is/was some off-screen friction between the two.  GG and MB have a wonderful brother/sister vibe, though.

I don't know if it's friction, but maybe it's worth these actors hanging round with each other more.