S37.E10: Tribal Lines are Blurred

[ByaNose]

BTW! The best line of the episode was Gabby (I think it was her) asking if Allison was doing yoga. Then someone replied that she was just throwing up. I can see how someone could misconstrue that. LOL!!!

[cleo]

The thing with Gabby is sometimes she is crying because she is actually angry/frustrated but she is not comfortable feeling angry so it comes out as tears. To me, it is the opposite of what some are saying- far from being a healthy expression, in fact she is not comfortable with her feelings or her anger. It is more acceptable (in general) for women to cry than directly express anger so that is how it comes out.

You can see it in some of the scenes where there is this thin layer of tears and then she gets confidence and starts speaking more clearly and is pissed.

As a viewer I react very differently to this kind of crying emotionally than to someone actually breaking down in tears from stress, usually physically, emotionally, and mentally as we have seen players do in bad weather, or from actual grief. 

As always mmv.

[peachmangosteen]

I love that the 2 most boring episodes so far this season have generated 6 pages of discussion. This is such a great season.

20 hours ago, violet and green said:

Hilarious! She said it with such a straight face, too. If Alec goes, she's the next big physical threat, she said ominously! Even if she meant in the Goliath remainders, Kara is much stronger than her.

I tend to agree that Kara is traditionally stronger (her arm muscles are insane) than Alison, but it seems that the other players are not noticing that about her. She seems underestimated in many ways by them tbh. And Alison actually has performed better than her in the II challenges, I believe, so it does make sense that the others see her as a bigger physical threat than Kara.

18 hours ago, cujo said:

Nick and John had a wrestling tag team alliance...

How do I not remember this?! Was that one of his named alliances? Someone refresh my memory on all of Nick's 2-person alliances because I only remember Nick/Christian and Nick/Mike.

15 hours ago, lids said:

The smile [Christian] gave before he started playing mind games with Alec at the immunity challenge was amazing.

Ugh yes! I loved that. I rewound it to watch again. It was so devious looking. I go back-and-forth on whether or not I think Christian is being completely fake and also on whether or not I like it if he is lol.

9 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

In general [Kara's] edit was very strange this week.  She got a lot of screen time talking about how foolish for them to tell her their plans.  And a very weird shot of drunk Carl sitting close to her on the boat, as though they were suggesting there was flirting going on, but in actual fact there didn't seem to be any at all.  I don't know, it was all strange to me.

I agree. I was so confused. It seemed like they suddenly decided to make her into a villain. I actually thought Alec was going to end up winning the IC and she was going to end up the target instead. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[SuburbanHangSuite]

28 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

BTW! The best line of the episode was Gabby (I think it was her) asking if Allison was doing yoga. Then someone replied that she was just throwing up. I can see how someone could misconstrue that. LOL

 

As someone who has attended exactly one yoga class before returning to my senses, I can attest that the two activities are not completely unrelated.

[peachmangosteen]

Oh also, I easily understood why Gabby and Christian made the decision to target Carl and I think it was a sound decision honestly. They were clearly unimportant to Carl and apparently Carl was thought of as the leader so it makes sense to me for them to get rid of him. But they did probably do it one TC too soon and will end up regretting it. At the very least I think Christian should have discussed it with Nick. And hell maybe he did and we just didn't see it. This season, in particular, they are hiding some big, pertinent strategy moments so it's hard to know what really went on.

Which reminds me, I would have liked for them to have done some foreshadowing earlier about Carl being seen as the leader of the Davids/as a mob boss type of leader. We were shown no evidence of that prior to this ep, which I find annoying. Hell, even in this ep Carl didn't come off that way to me. 

[BarneySays]

On 11/28/2018 at 10:01 PM, wallflower75 said:

I’ve always sort of wondered what would happen if they had an endurance challenge and someone tried to talk his opponent to death.  I sort of felt that’s what Christian did to Alec.

I would expect the real motivation was to distract himself from the pain he was experiencing.  That gave him greater endurance.  The editing wanted to give the impression that it was his talking that caused alec's wriggling, etc. but I wouldn't be sure that was actually the case.  Personally, I find the dweeb tedious, but his bloviating would not effect me if I were alec.

They seem to be getting lazy with the challenges.  That water challenge had one team in waist high water, while the other team was chest high in water.  And in that standing challenge, it didn't appear they adjusted for height, which they really should have been.  

Can't say I find any of these people interesting.  The constant "survivor" preening (proudest moment of my life and similar bathetic dreck), the tiresome "big move" and "resume" twaddle and incessant "strategizing" (which involves no actual strategization and implementation of a strategy) make for a banal experience.  I am simultaneously watching survivor australia and the contrast is stunning.  There, you see actual interactions, get an understanding of the relationships being developed and get to know the players as people, instead of as hoary "characters."  The cultural differences are also notable- less preening and performing for the camera and more of a sense of fair play.  

[green]

47 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Which reminds me, I would have liked for them to have done some foreshadowing earlier about Carl being seen as the leader of the Davids/as a mob boss type of leader. We were shown no evidence of that prior to this ep, which I find annoying. Hell, even in this ep Carl didn't come off that way to me. 

Yeah the editing was crazy.  The last two tribals before this show Christian was the target because the editing the last two weeks had the Goliaths identifying and talking seemingly endlessly about how Christian was the leader of the Davids.  The editors have to put together a storyline for the show even if there really isn't any at times and they seemed to be scrambling to do so in this double episode.  Suddenly enter Carl the Godfather.  Suddenly exit Carl the Godfather.

Edited November 30, 2018 by green

[cujo]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

How do I not remember this?! Was that one of his named alliances? Someone refresh my memory on all of Nick's 2-person alliances because I only remember Nick/Christian and Nick/Mike.

 

It was from an interview he had last week (posted by someone in last week's thread - sorry can't remember who) where he discussed the vote steal and some of the game up to that point. Article can be read here: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivor-david-goliath-nick-wilson-dan-rengering-john-hennigan-blindsides-1163630

Here's the snippet about the alliances he had formed to that point and their names. I don't think some of these were shown on TV and I'm thinking some were very nonchalant type of alliances as they weren't together all that long - him and John since the merge etc.:

Quote

 

Here are some of the alliance names I made in the game:

• Christian and I were the Mason-Dixon Line, or Mason-Dixon.

• Elizabeth and I were The Thoroughbreds.

• Carl and I were The Rattlers, short for Texas Rattlesnakes, the deadliest snake in Texas.

• Mike and I were The Rock Stars.

• Alec and I were Surf 'n' Turf.

• John and I were a tag-team wrestling duo called The Torch Snuffers.

 

[Dewey Decimate]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:21 AM, cleo said:

Mike's comments- 'Carl and Davey will never mount an insurrection'

And last night in regards to Carl- 'there is something menacing about it'

Seemed sketchier to me than Kara's comment.

And here I thought I was the woke-est middle aged white woman ever (or the special-est snowflake that ever special-ed) when my head about damn near exploded when Mike tossed out re: Carl, "There's something menacing about him..." WHAAAAT??? This is a guy who gets paid Hollywood bucks to use his fucking WORDS, someone who should be aware of the paper-thin covered coding that statement is really making. And he's referring to a black man laying back in a hammock as "menacing"? Perhaps they edited out the scenes of Carl patrolling the beach with a club in one hand and a glowering look on his face, but I kinda doubt it. Call Carl arrogant, an asshole, whatever - but "menacing" struck me as something that might go into a police report every time a black man gets shot by a cop. Mike cannot go soon enough for me.

Pretty convenient how Alison finally steps up to side with the Davids when they're voting out a David. I can't help but think (and sure hope) the generally smart Davids have noted this off-screen. I also wonder if there's been any talk of a female alliance that hasn't made it past the editing monkeys. I'm kind of enjoying seeing the jury of Temple Grandin and the Buff Boys tramp in each week.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the cast this year, and aside from my personal distaste for Mike and Gabby, would be happy with any of them making the finals. Even Angelina is entertaining to watch in her often misguided self-confidence. What I like is that while she says some pretty insane things, I haven't seen her go irrationally nasty and personal. Yeah, wanting to vote someone out for a jacket seems cold, but it's not like Lyrsa was on her Goliath side. She seems pretty rational in her machinations. Plus, part of me would laugh at the jury Goliaths having to decide between voting for her (last remaining Goliath) and a non-Christian David. (If Christian gets to the final with other Davids, he is a complete lock, imo. I like him okay, but would also be fine seeing him go, because that final tribal would be about as exciting as the season in which Sugar took the bespectacled doctor guy to the final. Yawn.)

[Lantern7]

@Dewey Decimate . . . first, great nickname. Second, I never got that vibe from Mike in his two stints on TAR. Maybe he meant Carl was menancing within the context of the game? I know, sounds weak, but it’s all I got. If he says that Christian’s diet is usually 90 percent puppies and kittens, then I’d know he meant within the game in a figurative sense. The only way Christian could do that is if he bored animals to submission with his lectures. 😜

[himela]

17 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that Christian made a big mistake (though we don't know how things will turn out).  My point was that he got caught in the middle of a conflict between 2 allies, and he stuck with the one he was closest to, rather than doing what probably made the most sense for his game.  To me, that is not nearly as bad as players who decide, "I'm gonna make a big move." and do something foolish for no good reason at all.  

The wisest thing he should have done is convince Gabby to be patient and let Carl do his thing until they vote him out. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by himela

[Gummo]

Late to the party so I'll make it quick:

1. Still loving this season.

2. Still loving Gabby & Christian; not sure they made the right move this week but I sure understand why they did it.

3. Carl's lack of self-discipline did him in, yet everybody's talking about Gabby's lack of self-discipline instead, and SHE's still in the game. 

4. I winced at 'call a spade a spade' but it seemed innocently intended to me. Davie sure didn't flinch.

5. Has there ever been a season when all of Probst's beloved alpha males were ALL targeted and evicted so early? LOL!

6. Hyde-Smith is a pro-Confederate* racist from way back. Context matters. Excusing her 'public hanging' comment is racism defending racism.

(*You remember the Confederacy, right? The traitors who waged war against the United States?)

Edited December 1, 2018 by Gummo
Because I screwed up a quote

[cooksdelight]

7 hours ago, llewis823 said:

You and I are sharing a brain. I can't swim well either so neither would I. lol  And every single time they have one of those reward feasts, I tell my husband that I don't know how in the world they are okay after that when they go without food for so long. The one feast was greasy fried chicken, potato salad and corn...can you imagine? That screws up my stomach on a normal day - don't even want to think about what it would do to them...and they have to dig holes, don't they? Or do they have outhouses that they just don't show us?

I’ll take this to Small Talk. :)

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

And here I thought I was the woke-est middle aged white woman ever (or the special-est snowflake that ever special-ed) when my head about damn near exploded when Mike tossed out re: Carl, "There's something menacing about him..." WHAAAAT??? This is a guy who gets paid Hollywood bucks to use his fucking WORDS, someone who should be aware of the paper-thin covered coding that statement is really making. And he's referring to a black man laying back in a hammock as "menacing"? Perhaps they edited out the scenes of Carl patrolling the beach with a club in one hand and a glowering look on his face, but I kinda doubt it. Call Carl arrogant, an asshole, whatever - but "menacing" struck me as something that might go into a police report every time a black man gets shot by a cop. Mike cannot go soon enough for me.

I can't even deal with the arrogant/asshole comments, because I've seen zero evidence of that and I think that Black people are very, very often painted with the "arrogant" label when it doesn't really make sense.  But I really appreciated what you said here.

I'd rather defend Carl against accusations of being menacing than Mike for throwing that out there....  

Menacing:  "suggesting the presence of danger; threatening."  I mean, come on.  Like said upthread, he is a writer.

4 hours ago, Gummo said:

3. Hyde-Smith is a pro-Confederate* racist from way back. Context matters. Excusing her 'public hanging' comment is racism defending racism.

(*You remember the Confederacy, right? The traitors who waged war against the United States?)

Thank you.......

[MisterBluxom]

Deleted. Sorry. Posted in the wrong forum.

Edited December 1, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[RescueMom]

Two more great episodes in what has been one of my favorite seasons of Survivor!

I love all of the stuff that’s already been discussed - the awesome first immunity challenge, Carl and his beer, etc. But I think my favorite part is that the way this week shook out, I have literally no idea where things are going to go next week. I could honestly see any of the remaining players either getting voted out next or sitting in the final tribal council. I know that is theoretically the case all the time, but in reality we usually have a pretty good idea as to who is safe and who is on the chopping block going into the next week. 

I want this whole cast to come back and play again. They struck gold with these people.

[LanceM]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:35 AM, ByaNose said:

BTW! The best line of the episode was Gabby (I think it was her) asking if Allison was doing yoga. Then someone replied that she was just throwing up. I can see how someone could misconstrue that. LOL!!!

I thought that was hilarious as well but it was Angelina not Gabby who said it.

[Jextella]

23 hours ago, Gummo said:

6. Hyde-Smith is a pro-Confederate* racist from way back. Context matters. Excusing her 'public hanging' comment is racism defending racism.

(*You remember the Confederacy, right? The traitors who waged war against the United States?)

 

 

Wait.  How did "Hyde-Smith" make it into the discussion?  Did I miss something on the show?

I just got a chance to watch this episode for the first time.  

Gabby - Her crying and whining reminds me of a child having a tantrum.   I get that the game is hard and stressful and that the players are working on little food, but come on.  In all the years I've watched, I've never seen anyone whine like she does.   She really is like a spoiled child and she needs to grow up and learn how to deal with life's twists and turns.  She's doing herself NO favors.

Carl - If you haven't watched his Ponderosa, it's a must.  He comes off so differently than he does in the game and acknowledges that he messed up.  I like Carl - a lot. 

Alec - Alec is one of my favorite players this season.  I don't think he's the greatest strategist, but he did play the game and played it hard.  I love his attitude on life and how it should be an adventure (his Ponderosa is also great; they all are).  I really wish they'd let him be at the reunion.  The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime.  I also think the photo of him and Kara was posted out of enthusiasm more than anything.  Survivor's big fist would remove every ounce of that if I were Alec.  It also takes a little steam out of my sails as a viewer.  This is just a game and supposed to be fun.

Christian - He's funny and charming but it wears thin.  I do believe the endless stories are a big part of his strategy, though, so I cut him slack.

Mike - Mike is not as smart as Mike thinks he is, but I do think he's smart enough to see in hindsight how unfortunate some of his words have been.  I like him - always have - but he hasn't done much to make me root for him.    

Alison - I like her but she hasn't done much to make me want to root for her.  

Kara - Same as Alison.  I sense she had a lot of loyalty to Alec and I enjoyed that about both of them.

Nick and Davie - it blows me away how these two are still under the radar.  How is it that the others - especially Christian and Gabby - haven't pegged them as threats given earlier game play is crazy.  Kind of arrogant too.  Although maybe we just haven't been shown discussions yet.

Angelina - I adore Angelina.   Her negotiating moment was hysterical - it really was Tracy Flick at work but I LOVE Angelina for coming up with the plan and delivering and being proud of herself.  She should be. 

My preferred final 3 based on gameplay of those who remain are Nick, Christian, and Angelina.  Gabby and Davie are next...but Gabby is too annoying.

The talk about racism on this board has been interesting.   I don't see a drop of it anywhere in the show, but people are more aware and more sensitive to things that can be perceived as racism these days which is a good thing.  It's better to discuss than not to discuss, IMO, but I don't see any of the players demonstrating racism. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Jextella

[mikewho]

Just watched the episode and it's official. I can't stand Christian. I don't care if it's part of his strategy or not, his schtick just gets on my nerves. Even the sound of his voice gets on my nerves. For me, this season, he's been the only one who drives me nuts. I hope he loses.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, mikewho said:

Just watched the episode and it's official. I can't stand Christian. I don't care if it's part of his strategy or not, his schtick just gets on my nerves. Even the sound of his voice gets on my nerves. For me, this season, he's been the only one who drives me nuts. I hope he loses.

Perfectly understandable. Many other people feel exactly the same way. Except not everyone hates Christian.  In my case, the hated one is Angelina. I wonder. I'm thinking of introducing a new name to call her. But this forum is just so darned polite and respectable. I fear it would be inappropriate to call any of the players by a mean and nasty nickname.  I have two great names in mind for her.  I can hardly contain myself and resist posting them. Sigh.

Hmm .... what would you think about starting a hate thread? Would that be permitted on this board?

Edited December 1, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[Mark2]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:49 PM, MisterBluxom said:

"Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was white as snow"  -  products with the word "white" in their name  -  White Owl Cigars...The White House, etc...

Seeing Ali's fights live is one of the only reasons that I sometimes wish I was older.  I'm not even a boxing fan.

But, to the race angle.

Umm...sheep are overwhelmingly white.  The White House is white.  And one line of Mary Had a Little Lamb is:

"He followed her to school one day
Which was against the rules."

So the [white] sheep did something wrong.  Doesn't quite fit the narrative.  And you can't automatically say it's racist even if the sheep was as black as coal.  It's a freaking poem.  Not every reference to color is a racial analogy.

Yes, historically, black and white have been associated with good and bad in several cultures.  But that long predates modern society.  I just wish people stopped seeing that dichotomy where it doesn't exist.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

On 11/30/2018 at 1:15 AM, green said:

I don't think I'm a jerk.  I think I believe you have to get over banning half the English language because every day someone is misinterpreting perfectly fine expressions to mean something totally different...Also I hate the concept of banning and being dictated to.

There is always someone who will feel offended if you say hello to them.  Again, saying "calling a spade is a spade" is fine.  Calling an Afro-American person "a spade" is not.  Can we just please have some common sense in these matters.

Exactly.  You can literally lose your job these days for doing something innocent that someone, somewhere thinks is offensive.  It's ridiculous.

On 11/30/2018 at 11:33 AM, Dewey Decimate said:

And here I thought I was the woke-est middle aged white woman ever (or the special-est snowflake that ever special-ed) when my head about damn near exploded when Mike tossed out re: Carl, "There's something menacing about him..." WHAAAAT??? This is a guy who gets paid Hollywood bucks to use his fucking WORDS, someone who should be aware of the paper-thin covered coding that statement is really making. And he's referring to a black man laying back in a hammock as "menacing"? Perhaps they edited out the scenes of Carl patrolling the beach with a club in one hand and a glowering look on his face, but I kinda doubt it. Call Carl arrogant, an asshole, whatever - but "menacing" struck me as something that might go into a police report every time a black man gets shot by a cop. Mike cannot go soon enough for me.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the cast this year, and aside from my personal distaste for Mike and Gabby, would be happy with any of them making the finals. Even Angelina is entertaining to watch in her often misguided self-confidence.

No comment on the whole "woke" thing, unless... ... ...

In all honesty, I have not yet seen The Godfather all the way through.  It's a travesty, I know.  But would you not agree that Marlon Brando is a menacing character?  Are white people no longer allowed to call a black person "menacing" out of fear that they'll be called a racist?  It's menacing (i.e. threatening) when someone has it in their head to bump off your entire group (Goliaths).

But I do find it easier to dislike Mike and Gabby over, say Christian.

1 hour ago, MisterBluxom said:

Perfectly understandable. Many other people feel exactly the same way. Except not everyone hates Christian.  In my case, the hated one is Angelina. I wonder. I'm thinking of introducing a new name to call her. But this forum is just so darned polite and respectable. I fear it would be inappropriate to call any of the players by a mean and nasty nickname.  I have two great names in mind for her.  I can hardly contain myself and resist posting them. Sigh.

Hmm .... what would you think about starting a hate thread? Would that be permitted on this board?

I'd be curious as to what those names are.  Despite liking her.  And Christian.  I have my own theory behind Christian-hate (and could probably formulate one for Angelina-hate), but am also too polite to share.

Heck...is one name Princess Angelina?

[Dewey Decimate]

25 minutes ago, Mark2 said:

No comment on the whole "woke" thing, unless... ... ...

In all honesty, I have not yet seen The Godfather all the way through.  It's a travesty, I know.  But would you not agree that Marlon Brando is a menacing character?  Are white people no longer allowed to call a black person "menacing" out of fear that they'll be called a racist?  It's menacing (i.e. threatening) when someone has it in their head to bump off your entire group (Goliaths).

Whoops, my "woke" reference was definitely tongue in cheek - sorry about being unclear! (It's like when those idiots on House Hunters talk about how "I have such a quirky personality!" Honey, if you're calling yourself "quirky", "a creative type", or "woke", you sure as hell ain't.)

I'm totally with you on the hypersensitivity in merely using words like "black" and "white." I'd hate to be seen as the PC police. What struck me about Mike White using that particular term is that I feel he as an individual should be more aware of how it would sound. Do I think he's a "racist"? Not necessarily - I have no idea what the dude's like off the show. (I've watched every season of TAR - didn't particularly like or dislike him on that.) I know he works in Hollywood, is a well-known writer/actor, and is a little older than me. He's clearly very educated, no doe-eyed ingenue, probably well-acquainted with a variety of people, and not from some backwoods podunk town. There's a panoply of fantastic words to use in the English language! I'm rather surprised that he didn't choose his more carefully. If a person were in my driveway glaring at me through my window, I'd sure as hell call that person menacing, regardless of color. As I recall, Mike was sitting on the beach, chatting with Christian (I think?), while Carl was not in the area. He could've called Carl a threat, arrogant, the Godfather, whatever, but chose to call him "menacing." It's only my opinion (see: like assholes), though, and I sure can't speak for anyone else. I live a fairly fortunate life, and believe that daily life as a not-as-privileged individual (due to race, class, or anything else) must be horribly upsetting and frustrating at times in ways that I as a non-"minority" cannot imagine. If by being just a little vigilant of how I speak and act can make the lives of others minutely better, I'm cool with that. (Sorry to veer off topic; I must sound like I'm on a soapbox, ugh. I'm really just feeling gratitude that my life is pretty good!)

{IMO: The Godfather - good movie, but I think rather overrated. Not my cup of tea, but I prefer genres like reality, sci-fi/fantasy, and cartoons, so there's no accounting for taste...}

[violet and green]

Mike's a gentle soul. I can quite imagine having someone like Carl, who can brew up a mean grudge (as per Elizabeth) thinking and acting like he's in charge and brooking no dissension, and no doubt shooting a few glares around here and there, could be felt as quite a menacing presence, when in that mood. All this policing of colloquial phrases, taken out of context and with apparently no awareness such phrases exist and have been used for many centuries, and now adjective and adverb dissection in search of racism is to my mind insane.

[MisterBluxom]

19 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Seeing Ali's fights live is one of the only reasons that I sometimes wish I was older.  I'm not even a boxing fan.

But, to the race angle.

Umm...sheep are overwhelmingly white.  The White House is white.  And one line of Mary Had a Little Lamb is:

"He followed her to school one day
Which was against the rules."

So the [white] sheep did something wrong.  Doesn't quite fit the narrative.  And you can't automatically say it's racist even if the sheep was as black as coal.  It's a freaking poem.  Not every reference to color is a racial analogy.

 

I will send you a PM (Private Message) with the two nicknames.

I just want to clarify something with you however and that is, "Most everything that I put into quotations in my post about the movie "I Am Ali",  was spoken by Muhammad Ali and I'd also like to clarify that during that press conference (if it was indeed a press conference), everyone who attended seemed to love Ali and was laughing along with him. In fact for almost his entire life, the whole world seemed to love him and enjoyed hearing what he had to say and thought very highly of him. The point was made over and over again by most everyone (including almost all of the most important people and dignitaries in the world at that time) that Ali was a stellar individual. - one of the most loved human beings who ever lived.  No one ever seemed to suggest that he behaved in a racist manner or any kind of improper manner - unless maybe you were fighting him in a boxing ring).  Indeed the point was made many times that Ali loved people of all races. His Headstone could easily have read "A Lover of All People".  He did not hate white people or any people of any race.  It seemed to me that at the time he was alive,  almost everyone in the whole world believed Ali was one of the greatest human beings ever. I certainly did.

It was Ali who made the reference to "Mary had a Little Lamb" and I think he was suggesting that poem was used to brainwash people. He said "black people" but I think you might want to see that clip for yourself. I don't know for certain but I would guess it would not be too difficult to find it somewhere on Youtube. I'm not very experienced searching for movies or movie clips on Youtube. But maybe some kind and gentle soul could find it for us and post it here?

Umm .... Mike White? Violet and Green called you a "gentle soul". Are you listening? Could you find that movie clip for us and post a link? Or maybe someone else could?

OK Mark.  I'm gonna send you that PM now.   Oh ...... wait!  wait!  wait!    I know what to do!   I know what to do!   I know what to do!  I'll ask Angelina!

Angelina? Are you listening? Could you find that clip?  Angelina?  Angelina?  Angelina?   .......

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[Mark2]

42 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

I will send you a PM (Private Message) with the two nicknames.

I just want to clarify something with you however and that is, "Most everything that I put into quotations in my post about the movie "I Am Ali",  was spoken by Muhammad Ali and I'd also like to clarify that during that press conference (if it was indeed a press conference), everyone who attended seemed to love Ali and was laughing along with him. In fact for almost his entire life, the whole world seemed to love him and enjoyed hearing what he had to say and thought very highly of him. The point was made over and over again by most everyone (including almost all of the most important people and dignitaries in the world at that time) that Ali was a stellar individual. - one of the most loved human beings who ever lived.  No one ever seemed to suggest that he behaved in a racist manner or any kind of improper manner - unless maybe you were fighting him in a boxing ring).  Indeed the point was made many times that Ali loved people of all races. His Headstone could easily have read "A Lover of All People".  He did not hate white people or any people of any race.  It seemed to me that at the time he was alive,  almost everyone in the whole world believed Ali was one of the greatest human beings ever. I certainly did.

It was Ali who made the reference to "Mary had a Little Lamb" and I think he was suggesting that poem was used to brainwash people. He said "black people" but I think you might want to see that clip for yourself. I don't know for certain but I would guess it would not be too difficult to find it somewhere on Youtube. I'm not very experienced searching for movies or movie clips on Youtube. But maybe some kind soul can find it and post it? Umm .... Mike White? Someone here called you a "gentle soul". Are you listening? Can you find that movie clip and post a link? Or maybe someone else could?

OK I'm gonna send you that PM now.   Oh ...... wait!  wait!  wait!    I know what to do!   I know what to do!   I know what to do!  

Angelina? Are you listening? Could you find that clip?  Angelina?  Angelina?  Angelina?  Angelina?  .......

 

Thanks!  PM sent in reply.  I may have to go digging for that clip if Angelina doesn't chime in ;)

[MisterBluxom]

10 minutes ago, Mark2 said:

Thanks!  PM sent in reply.  I may have to go digging for that clip if Angelina doesn't chime in ;)

Heh Heh. I'll try too.

[Hanahope]

I know many people are criticizing Angelina for her initial negotiating offer of seemingly 'everything', but clearly she was holding back.  Also, most of what she was offering was the leftovers from prior reward challenges.  The coffee stuff, for example.  Almost surely the castaways have used up everything edible in that.  So what's left, the french press (or whatever they used to make the coffee) and cups.  They don't need those now.  same with most of the cooking supplies.  I bet they used up all the spices and don't really need a frying pan (especially if they aren't catching fish).

Now, I'm not sure with offering the fishing equipment, unless the castaways have used/broken/lost everything useful, which might explain why they can't catch any fish with it anymore.  because really, if they can catch fish, they can eat (well, except for the vegetarians like Angelina).  It sure sounded from that one scene with Nick, Kara and Angelina on the raft, they weren't catching any fish.

The comfort items seems to be the only thing she offered that had any potential value (mostly the hammock), as I bet the pillows smell awful, are dirty and possible still damp from rain.  I think the only thing she held back from that reward was a tarp.

And in prior episodes, castaways have offered such ridiculously little in exchange for more rice, Jeff has responded by saying they could only get rice in exchange for pretty much everything the castaways had.  So I think Angelina did well by at least making her initial offer sound like a lot, even if it wasn't.

[Eolivet]

I actually thought Jeff let them off easy. I expected him to say that the whole tribe give up immunity for that challenge (Rob on his podcast suggested someone give up immunity for the rest of the game, which I thought was harsh). But since the group benefited from rice, the group should've given up immunity.

From the moment Jeff said "one person must sit out," it turned into a set-up (for the viewers), which is what irked me about it. It was a giant exercise -- in what, I'm not sure -- except that it sucked up 15 minutes of screen time on the planned negotiation offer, Angelina talking about the negotiation other people talking about Angelina talking about the negotiation, Angelina actually negotiating, Jeff's counter-offer, Angelina predictably, humbly accepting the counter-offer, I believe a confessional about how important it was for her story to accept the counter-offer, and then recapping the whole story at tribal.

In contrast to when they ran out of rice in San Juan Del Sur. Jeff came, took everything, left them with rice. Five minutes, at most.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:28 AM, Pondlass1 said:

Wouldn't they be provided with extra rice anyway without having to negotiate? 

That's what I think.  In the early seasons several of the young muscular guys ( Jeff's favorite type) had to go home because they were visibly suffering serious health consequences from the lack of food and nobody wanted to see anything happen like heart damage from running extreme challenges while starving.  After that it seemed like every time the group started to run out of rice, there would be a challenge where the reward would be a huge bag of rice.  As I recall, a few years ago a woman won a challenge and got to choose either the big bag of rice for the tribe or something just for herself, so of course she took the big bag.  I'm guessing Jeff was preparing for something like that when Angelina, bursting with pride, made her hilarious offer.

[KimberStormer]

10 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I actually thought Jeff let them off easy. I expected him to say that the whole tribe give up immunity for that challenge (Rob on his podcast suggested someone give up immunity for the rest of the game, which I thought was harsh). But since the group benefited from rice, the group should've given up immunity.

I agree, I thought it would be more like in Cambodia when a majority had to give up their chance at immunity -- I think only Joe and Keith ended up competing?

[Jextella]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:28 AM, Pondlass1 said:

Wouldn't they be provided with extra rice anyway without having to negotiate?  The contests wouldn't be much fun with a bunch of weak starving survivors trying to drag themselves about.   Are the contestants given suntan lotion?

Starvation and skin cancer could lead to law suits.

There must be an incentive for contestants to stick to rations appropriately.   Maybe they are financially penalized in some way.  Seems something has to been in place to keep a bunch of tired and hungry people from eating through their entire supply too quickly.

I'm sure the show wouldn't let them starve.  Good question about sunscreen!

Edited December 4, 2018 by Jextella

[ProfCrash]

They are provided with sunscreen but I don't think that they get breaks to reapply sunscreen during challenges. They also have access to condoms and pads/tampoons. There is a medical tent that provides prescription meds and bandaids and the like.

The show has been perfectly content to allow tribes to suffer from hunger, Australia was the most extreme example. I do think the increase in the food rewards is meant to address the starvation issue. But the food that they serve there really isn't all that helpful since it tends to be greasy, heavy food which causes stomach issues. Most rewards have a vegetable component to them which I think would be hard to stick too but might be better for the contestants.

[ProfCrash]

Gabby gave a mid-season interview that I think people would find interesting.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivor-david-goliath-gabby-crying-drama-carl-blindside-more-1165698

I put in the quotes I found most useful. She discusses Carl, Christian's yammering at the challenge, and tears. She knew she was in the bottom of her alliance, when the "target" of the next vote is willing to give up immunity for rice. Clearly, Angelina wasn't the target. And she knows she is seen as a goat.

Quote

I love Carl, but Carl is an emotional player. One of my favorite phrases is, "When you point your finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you." So I believe when Carl calls me emotional, it's because he is emotional. The difference between me and Carl is that my emotions are outward, whereas he bottles his up and lets them out in private. So he saw me as weak because I couldn't hold it in, and I saw him as hard to work with because he was stubborn.

Quote

Carl is very low-key and laid-back, so his power position is not outwardly obvious. That's why I called him the Godfather, because he's quiet and runs things behind the scenes. But then you start to realize, "Where are these names coming from?" and more often than not, it was Carl. This started all the way back on the David tribe, when Carl and Pat dictated that we needed to vote out Nick because he wasn't doing work around camp. I was never a part of a conversation where that decision was made, nor do I think Christian or Davie were, so it felt like we were handed down the name from up high. I saw it again at the merge, when he immediately started poisoning the water for the Elizabeth vote. I thought, you're already throwing out one of the Davids because she annoys you? He had already soured the Goliaths on Elizabeth before any of the Davids had a chance to talk. 

Quote

Carl was the loudest proponent of "David strong." That was a great mindset to have while we were down in numbers — we absolutely had to stick together and combine our powers and advantages to overcome the Goliaths and avoid being picked off. But for my personal end game, David strong did not make sense. I felt I was at the bottom of the Davids, so going to the final five with them just means I come in fifth place, or am a final three goat

Quote

Once I dropped, it was open season for Christian to yammer. And Christian is a verbose guy. We played several games of 20 questions. Christian is a Survivor superfan, so he would pester Jeff about previous seasons, his favorite players, challenges he wanted brought back, or whatever. Eventually the whole sit-out bench engaged in the Jeff interrogation too, asking him questions ranging from whether they'll bring the Survivor auction back, to what Jeff's workout routine was. Jeff was such a good sport and it speaks volumes for what a great host he is — as much as we were suffering in the sun, so was he, on his feet for almost six hours! I'm not sure what was harder for him, standing in the sun for that long, or having to listen to Christian.

Quote

Lastly, I want to ask the people who are so incensed by my crying why it bothers them so much. If you've been told in your life that it's weak to cry, I have compassion for you and hope you can find a healthy way to express your emotions that works for you. Emotions are powerful and wonderful and make us human. I hope that people who have walls up can someday find the strength to be vulnerable, as I think you'll find it brings love, joy and deep relationships into your life.

She spends four paragraph on tears. Paraphrasing, she was not a great actress in high school and cannot cry on demand. Tears are a natural mechanism for her, which she knew going in. She said she mentioned it in several preseason interviews and compared herself to Dawn because of that. She understands that she can use her tears to her benefit saying that vulnerability is a powerful bonding mechanism. So she knew she would be crying out there because it is her natural reaction to stress and frustration. She did use those tears because, well, why not? And I fully agree with her that crying is not weakness and that people need to get over it.

[cujo]

Looks like I've been wrong about the jacket Nick was wearing all along. I was very confident in it being John's with it being leather and having zippers as seen in his (John's) promo images and some of his confessionals but the zippers are going in the wrong direction and Nick posted on his Instagram that it's Dan's jacket: 

[JudyObscure]

Gabby quote: Lastly, I want to ask the people who are so incensed by my crying why it bothers them so much. If you've been told in your life that it's weak to cry, I have compassion for you and hope you can find a healthy way to express your emotions that works for you. Emotions are powerful and wonderful and make us human. I hope that people who have walls up can someday find the strength to be vulnerable, as I think you'll find it brings love, joy and deep relationships into your life.

Well, I liked her until that interview.  It's one thing to cry, it's another thing to feel so superior about it.    It's everyone's  natural reaction to cry under stress, ask any two year old.  It doesn't make Gabby better than the people who have learned to control their tears anymore than the little kids who learned to "use their words" when angry are inferior to those who are still lashing out. It's a natural reaction to turn over the Candy Land game when losing, but that doesn't mean we should continue to do it all our lives.  I suppose somewhere the guy who's  slamming his tennis racket  down after losing is saying he has compassion for the rest of us who have no ability to express our emotions.

Also lighten up on Carl.  And:  "One of my favorite phrases is, "When you point your finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you."  Really Gabby?  What next?  Is their no "I" in team?

[marys1000]

I read Gabby's interview too and thought she possibly answered the Mike's menacing comment question.  She says that Carl got very suspicious if any David's were seen talking to Goliaths would do a lot of glaring.  Carl seems to be a Jekyll and Hyde type to me.  There is his funny jokey nice Carl prominently displayed at Ponderosa then there is his I don't like so and so, grudge holding, suspicious, bossy sort of sour side which is what I got mainly on the show and didn't like him. And he always seemed to go after women.  Anyway, I suspect that Carl was doing some glaring while Mike talked to a David on the beach or something. 

At least Angelina had a plan for the rice problem.  I like proactive people.  I think everyone else was just content to see if TPTB would give them more rice. 

Gabby - to answer your question...I don't care if you cry because you are emotional.  I never did.  I don't think thats whats bother most people.

That is never what bothered me.  You have confirmed what I was wondering about that would bother me if true.  You are super smart, super cute, a superfan who knows the game..........and yet you use your tears, doesn't matter if they are fake or not, and thats your game. That's not the kind of game I like.  Yes its a viable tactic and everything is fair in Survivor.  Still don't like it.  

 That you are super smart and all those things adds insult to injury.  

[ProfCrash]

The way that Gabby and Carl have been portrayed is interesting. Many people found Carl's "cool exterior", my phrase for his indifferent face, as something favorable and were excited to see how he was playing. I always found it disturbing because I thought he was normally pissed off an swallowing his emotions. Gabby has been portrayed as overly emotional. What she is getting at, is what I have been saying all season, Carl is playing while swallowing his emotions, which people seem to be cool with because we are trained to not show emotions. This is especially true for men, "boys don't cry", "shake it off", "take it like a man", "don't be a girl" are all phrases I have heard directed at kids on my 6 year olds sports teams. Carl was just that, he showed little to no emotion, held grudges, and swallowed his anger and people were praising his game play.  Gabby cries and people are all over her for being emotional.

All Gabby is saying is that Carl was as driven by his emotions as Gabby was, he just didn't show them.

And yes, you teach people to not respond in an overly emotional manner and to find other ways to express their feelings. I seriously doubt that Gabby cries when she loses a board game or when a decision is made that she doesn't like at work. I am sure that she has a healthier balance in her day to day life that allows her to accept those defeats with grace and without tears.

Survivor is not a normal day to day experience where you expect that people are going to be able to respond on an even keel. It is a highly stressful environment with no escape. We can say "its a game" all we want but when you are living in a small space, 24/7, with the same people, working to win a million dollars, it is not going to feel like a game. Different people handle it in different manners but it is still a high stress environment.

We saw Dan and Alec go off and brood for a bit when things didn't go their way. They were knocked for doing that. They would have been knocked for yelling or screaming. It seems like no matter how someone deals with their emotions on Survivor they are knocked for it. Gabby's point is that Carl swallows his emotions, that anger in his eyes is not cool during the confrontation with Elizabeth but viewers are cool with that because they don't have to deal with Carl's anger because he swallowed it. People bitch because Gabby cries. Both are emotional responses but one we applaud, when we shouldn't, and the other we berate because it makes us uncomfortable.

And yes, there are peoples response we don't see. Kara and Alison come to mind. They don't seem to be real threats in the game so we don't see them. Mike has had his paranoia interfere with his game and has had his smaller explosions, that we have seen. "Let's not act like bitches" comes to mind. Davie, Carl and Bi all had that episode long brooding bitch session where the three of them targeted Gabby for having the audacity to play the game and vote out Jessica.

So I understand Gabby's point and why she is defensive.

[peachmangosteen]

21 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I know many people are criticizing Angelina for her initial negotiating offer of seemingly 'everything', but clearly she was holding back. 

I think the bigger problem with her Yale taught negotiating skills is that she made it so clear that this was just her first offer. Now, I didn't go to Yale, or college at all lol, but I'm pretty sure you don't negotiate by telling the other person that you know your offer is low and that you'll totally be willing to give up more.

Quote

Now, I'm not sure with offering the fishing equipment, unless the castaways have used/broken/lost everything useful, which might explain why they can't catch any fish with it anymore.  because really, if they can catch fish, they can eat (well, except for the vegetarians like Angelina). 

I think Angelina talked about eating fish in a pre-merge confessional, so she's actually a pescatarian rather than a vegetarian. Or at least she was for Survivor.

I agreed with what Gabby had to say in that interview, but honestly she did come off like she thinks she's superior in it. I still like her though. But also hate her lol. Like I've said, she's like looking into a mirror, which is always kinda comforting but also horrible at the same time.

Edited December 4, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

I think Gabby is defensive right now so her arguments are being made a bit more forcefully then she normally would. Her tears and use of tears have been a front and center conversation since the season started. But that is me. Angelina had moments in her interviews where they were being detailed in their defenses. Angelina came off long winded and, well, Angelina. Nick's edit has been more favorable so his interview was more straight forward.

I am sure Gabby would rather people focus on her work to get Jessica off, saving her alliance, and then getting Carl out but the focus has been on her tears. Part of that is because how she has used them and part of that is that Survivor seems to enjoy portraying the extreme emotional responses. See Dawn, Lisa, Brandon, Russell and the like.

[Nashville]

11 hours ago, Jextella said:

There must be an incentive for contestants to stick to rations appropriately.   Maybe they are financially penalized in some way.  Seems something has to been in place to keep a bunch of tired and hungry people from eating through their entire supply too quickly.

Nope!  Because manipulation of the food supply has been a strategic game tactic used more than once in Survivor - players intentionally eating more than their fair ration to be better-equipped in challenges, for example, or out-and-out destruction of the tribe’s rice stores.

 

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think the bigger problem with her Yale taught negotiating skills is that she made it so clear that this was just her first offer. Now, I didn't go to Yale, or college at all lol, but I'm pretty sure you don't negotiate by telling the other person that you know your offer is low and that you'll totally be willing to give up more.

Exactly exactly exactly - not to mention Angelina threw SO much into her initial offer, she had little pot-sweetening leeway for the back-and-forth of dickering (which is negotiating without a college degree).  :>

[ProfCrash]

I think the other issue was the talking head were Angelina talked about taking negotiation and loving it so much she took master negotiations while at Grad School at Yale. I believe the anvil that was falling on our head was labeled "I am smart too." Gabby and Alison have managed to show their intelligence naturally, in conversations and at tribal council. Christian is over the top with his demonstrations of intelligence but he is an academic who is in one of the nerdier fields out there. Christian's comments feel organic, he is who he is and he is a uber smart nerd in a technical field. Angelina's intelligence and abilities seem to be more advertised. First we  have Natalia's comment that Angelina could have solved the puzzle that Natalie was not able to finish, and Angelina's meek "thank you". We have micro managing Dan's idol play "Did you name the right person?", ie Are you sure you did this right?. And now we have the Yale graduate school.

Angelina appears to have my level of tact and diplomacy. She is so trying to do things properly and so thoroughly failing. Every "manipulative" plan she devises fails. It is like watching Wyle E Coyote.

Angelina wants a jacket. Angelina's plan is to steal a jacket. That is voted down and Natalie fails to blackmail Nick or Lyrsa into giving up their jacket. Angelina fails to get Natalie's jacket because Natalie sees right through Angelina's transparent attempt to defend  and vote with Natalie at tribal.

Angelina wants Elizabeth's vote at final tribal. Angelina tells Elizabeth that Elizabeth is going home. Elizabeth goes home but after blowing up Angelina's attempt at jury management.

Angelina wants an idol played for her. Angelina confirms the idol will be played before tribal. Angelina begs for the idol at tribal. Angelina makes sure the idol is played for her. Angelina really wasn't the target.

Angelina wants to replace Gabby in the David alliance. Angelina gets along fine with Carl and seems to be accepted into the Davids alliance. The David alliance really isn't there and Carl is voted out.

Everything she does is so transparent and she keeps thinking that she is playing this super sneaky game and manipulating folks. But she is not. She is actually seeing the game pretty well and responding the right way but she has no subtlety and is totally unable to hide what she is doing. And she is totally trying to play the game.

I think she is an entitled young woman who has no clue how she comes across because she has lived her life with people like her. OK, I am guessing about the last part. But I don't think she is evil or mean. I think she is seeing what is happening around her and adjusting. I just think she has no concept of how to do that without making her moves totally obvious to everyone.

[green]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Well, I liked her until that interview.  It's one thing to cry, it's another thing to feel so superior about it.    It's everyone's  natural reaction to cry under stress, ask any two year old.  It doesn't make Gabby better than the people who have learned to control their tears anymore than the little kids who learned to "use their words" when angry are inferior to those who are still lashing out. It's a natural reaction to turn over the Candy Land game when losing, but that doesn't mean we should continue to do it all our lives.  I suppose somewhere the guy who's  slamming his tennis racket  down after losing is saying he has compassion for the rest of us who have no ability to express our emotions.

Also lighten up on Carl.  And:  "One of my favorite phrases is, "When you point your finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you."  Really Gabby?  What next?  Is their no "I" in team?

Totally agree.  How patronizing of Gabby to assure us she is emotionally healthy and the rest of us who don't cry and whine over everything are inferior.

 

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Survivor is not a normal day to day experience where you expect that people are going to be able to respond on an even keel. It is a highly stressful environment with no escape. We can say "its a game" all we want but when you are living in a small space, 24/7, with the same people, working to win a million dollars, it is not going to feel like a game. Different people handle it in different manners but it is still a high stress environment.

Yeah, it is, but 99% of players handle it one way.  Gabby alone the other.  But she has the superior "healthy" emotional skills?  Nope, don't buy it.

[BarneySays]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Lastly, I want to ask the people who are so incensed by my crying why it bothers them so much. If you've been told in your life that it's weak to cry, I have compassion for you and hope you can find a healthy way to express your emotions that works for you. Emotions are powerful and wonderful and make us human. I hope that people who have walls up can someday find the strength to be vulnerable, as I think you'll find it brings love, joy and deep relationships into your life.

Ah, there's the smug, hostile self-importance of the genus snowflake.  This is a classic case.  First, there's the defensive, why does it matter to you?  As if no one is entitled to an opinion but the snowflake (who has opinions on everything and everyone).  Then, the passive aggressive shiv attempt.  "I feel sorry for you..."  There's the pubescent attempt at condescension that is a key trait of the snowflake.  And then, the sine qua non, the self-absorbed omniscience.  See, our little Gabbie is so enlightened (at her tender age) that she understands all of the secrets of life that have eluded others- including those with more life experience than she.  I hope life one day gives a real reason to cry.  Poor little thing.

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, green said:

Totally agree.  How patronizing of Gabby to assure us she is emotionally healthy and the rest of us who don't cry and whine over everything are inferior.

 

Yeah, it is, but 99% of players handle it one way.  Gabby alone the other.  But she has the superior "healthy" emotional skills?  Nope, don't buy it.

That we see. I would put serious money on the fact that other people cry out there each season, probably multiple times over the course of the season, and we don't see it. We see it when the editors want us to see it. And, lets be honest, posters always complain about the response to seeing love ones. "It hasn't been that long", "Its a short period of time to play a game, get over it", "Why do they always cry." There is a traditional bias against tears on all of the boards, not just this one.  There have been plenty of seasons with people who are more likely to cry and that person is always eviscerated on the boards. 

I strongly suspect that there is a good deal more coverage of Gabby not crying and holding conversations about the game with a number of folks. Just like I am sure that there are images of other people crying in talking heads that we won't see. We see what they show us. But I suppose being a paranoid nut job is better then crying (Tony). Or being paranoid with someone to reign you in is fine (Dom). But god forbid your stress response is to cry.

[Mark2]

5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

...They also have access to condoms and pads/tampoons. There is a medical tent that provides prescription meds and bandaids and the like.

...Most rewards have a vegetable component to them which I think would be hard to stick too but might be better for the contestants.

I would have said "What What Whaaat?" to condoms, but an interview seems to have confirmed it.  Funny how condoms are "essential" but protein and razors are not.  I never knew that you could go on Survivor and be provided prescription meds though.

At 1/2 of a coffee cup of rice every other day, darn right veggies would be hard to stick to.  How would it be better for them to eat only some of the least calorie-dense food available?

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Gabby gave a mid-season interview that I think people would find interesting.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivor-david-goliath-gabby-crying-drama-carl-blindside-more-1165698

...She spends four paragraph on tears. Paraphrasing, she was not a great actress in high school and cannot cry on demand...And I fully agree with her that crying is not weakness and that people need to get over it.

Gabby:

"...I believe being able to cry that convincingly on demand would actually make me a psychopath.

Instead, I want to propose another way to frame my tears: they can be both genuine and strategic...I can use it as a way to connect with people. Vulnerability is a powerful bonding mechanism. Would Christian have wanted to protect me on Tiva had I not been vulnerable with him...Would Alison have considered flipping on Dan had I not said, "I'm scared, and I need you to help me"? That emotional plea was purposeful. I knew Alison was an extremely empathetic person and would feel bonded to me if I opened up, which was confirmed in her confessional where she said as a doctor she feels the need to protect people."

Hmm...crying on demand is psychopathic?  What's the term for manipulating people because they are empathetic?

Some may say strategic...which could be true.  But I'm souring a bit on Gabby.  Whether this explanation is completely genuine or is meant to portray more strategic play than is truly accurate.

[ProfCrash]

She is using her tears in a manipulative manner. There is no doubt about that. I don't believe that she can cry at will but I don't think she is holding back tears when she might be able to. I think she allowed herself to cry when she was talking to Allison back at the swap tribe or at the first tribal. I think that her tears with Christian have been real but she has used that time to discuss strategy while trying to get those tears under control. Where as we saw Allison crying and accepting Christian's hug but not using that moment to strategize. If Gabby is aware enough of her responses to try and use it as a strategy then more power to her but it is a risky strategy. It is risky precisely because it is so manipulative and people are likely to be hurt by that type of emotional manipulation. That is what bit Dawn in the ass, although I don't think it was strategically done by Dawn.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I think the other issue was the talking head were Angelina talked about taking negotiation and loving it so much she took master negotiations while at Grad School at Yale.

Well, there’s your answer: if you need to negotiate with a Yale grad student, then by cracky Angelina’s your girl.  ;>

 

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Everything she does is so transparent and she keeps thinking that she is playing this super sneaky game and manipulating folks. But she is not. She is actually seeing the game pretty well and responding the right way but she has no subtlety and is totally unable to hide what she is doing. And she is totally trying to play the game.

I think she is an entitled young woman who has no clue how she comes across because she has lived her life with people like her. OK, I am guessing about the last part. But I don't think she is evil or mean. I think she is seeing what is happening around her and adjusting. I just think she has no concept of how to do that without making her moves totally obvious to everyone.

The only explanation which makes any kind of sense to me is Angelina is what I refer to as a Gold Star junkie.  Angelina must’ve grown up in an environment where EVERY completed act or accomplishment, no matter how minor, was rewarded with lavishment of effusive praise and reward - so much so that (a) acknowledgement of her accomplishments (the more public the better) became Angelina’s true motivation and reward rather than the accomplishment itself, and (b) Angelina feels shortchanged if such acknowledgement is not immediately forthcoming, or of insufficient magnitude.  It’s not enough for Angelina to do a good thing; she has to HEAR other people tell her, “Oh, what a good thing you did!” - and if they don’t, she keeps throwing it out there until she gets her “yes, Angelina, you did a very good thing.  Here’s your Gold Star for the day.  Now run along and play....”

All of which makes a DL game well-nigh impossible for Angelina, unfortunately; she can’t get the external validation she needs (craves?) unless people know what she did, so she goes out of her way to make sure everybody knows.  In terms of subtle strategy, though...?  Not really in Angelina’s wheelhouse.  :)

[cherrypj]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

And:  "One of my favorite phrases is, "When you point your finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you."  Really Gabby?  What next?  Is their no "I" in team?

AW! I like that one.

[Rachel RSL]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Well, I liked her until that interview.  It's one thing to cry, it's another thing to feel so superior about it.    It's everyone's  natural reaction to cry under stress, ask any two year old.  It doesn't make Gabby better than the people who have learned to control their tears anymore than the little kids who learned to "use their words" when angry are inferior to those who are still lashing out. It's a natural reaction to turn over the Candy Land game when losing, but that doesn't mean we should continue to do it all our lives.  

I was already pretty much out of love for Gabby but this interview just cements it.  Nobody is criticizing her for crying, people are annoyed because she cries WAY more than any grown adult should. Stressful situation or not, there have been 37 seasons of people who haven't sobbed hysterically so often. There's crying, and then there's crying all the time in situations where adults should be able to handle their emotions without completely losing their shit. 

[ByaNose]

I sorta agree with Gabby (in a soft voice). Why does it bother people? Some people cry & others don’t. If someone  doesn’t cry you’re okay with them? Why? Granted, others might have cried and we didn’t see it. They chose to show Gabby crying a lot. They showed Carl crying a few times but I think he was always by himself. He probably didn’t want people to see him cry. Wonder why? I love that we all have our own opinions on previously.tv.