20/20

[SoMuchTV]

13 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Donna's mother looks so much like Judith Light, and Rebecca reminded me of Evan Rachel Wood. If they ever turn their story into a movie, that's who has to play them. 

 

11 hours ago, mamadrama said:

And Ira (Donnah's father) looked like Rudy Giuliani. 

I thought the mother looked like Nancy Pelosi, and the father like Rudy Giuliani, both minus 10 years or so.

And I couldn't help wondering (even though it has no bearing on the case) about Bailey's birth mother.  It sounded like it was a local young girl who gave up her baby for adoption, so it's hard to imagine that she (and possibly the birth father) weren't aware of all this going on.  Just another layer of, I want to say drama, but that almost trivializes it.  I have to wonder if at any point they reconnected.

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I was wondering... about Bailey's birth mother.  It sounded like it was a local young girl who gave up her baby for adoption. 

Are you in my head? I was literally coming here to make this point! It's possible that by the age of 6 months, she had 3 mothers who loved her! 

[howiveaddict]

Did some sleuthing on Mark Winger and found this:

https://newschannel20.com/news/local/woman-finally-tells-her-side-of-the-story-two-decades-after-springfield-double-murder

[eel21788]

5 hours ago, LEILANI2 said:

I wish there was more information on why they went through with the adoption if he was cheating on his wife.  I'd also like more info on the best friend of the wife he killed who he was having an affair with.

She must have been livid when he married the nanny and not her.

My take on it is: Mark wanted his own biological children. He agreed to go along with the adoption while he was plotting how to get rid of his wife and move on with someone who wasn't barren. Deanne knew or at least suspected that he had killed Donnah, so she turned her back on him instead of moving in, marrying him and having children as he had planned. That is why he moved on to Rebecca. She was just conveniently there by that time.

[pdlinda]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:31 AM, mamadrama said:

And Ira (Donnah's father) looked like Rudy Giuliani. 

Absolutely...I couldn't believe the resemblance!

[LEILANI2]

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Absolutely...I couldn't believe the resemblance!

Not just the resemblance, by he had his mannersims too when he spoke and gesticalated.

[pdlinda]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:13 PM, howiveaddict said:

Did some sleuthing on Mark Winger and found this:

https://newschannel20.com/news/local/woman-finally-tells-her-side-of-the-story-two-decades-after-springfield-double-murder

I've been thinking about this case for several days and found it odd that I can't recall ANY family members from Mark's side of the family giving interviews for the show!  Where were his mother/father/siblings??  Usually the production crew can enlist some family member to talk about the formative/adult years of a person who obviously turned out to be a sociopath:  MARK WINGER!

Having worked on the defense side of the criminal justice system for YEARS I can categorically say that sociopaths don't emerge one day in adulthood to commit such heinous crimes!  There are always signs and symptoms that, upon reflection, parents/siblings/friends may recall.  There has been a lot of research done in this area and I've studied a lot of it.  The continuing pathology of him hiring a hit man to knock off a childhood friend who refused to post bail $$$ for him from prison speaks to the depths of his depravity.  

I feel very sorry for the surviving children as I hope they are receiving the mental health services they will need to cope with their genetic legacy (with the exception of Bailey) of their bio father's anti-social behavior and criminal history.  Its never easy for the children (regardless of whether or not they physically sever from him or not) to live with and effectively interpret their response to their parents' marriage and all the fallout from Rebecca's and Mark's union and Mark's subsequent horrendous criminal behavior.

I was also interested in why this wasn't considered a death penalty case (if they have the death penalty in Illlinois--maybe it's been eliminated?) because of the premeditation and heinous nature of the actual murder and dragging in and killing another innocent victim, Roger.  If anyone deserved the death penalty, from my experience, Mark Winger certainly did on the basis of his atrocious crimes!

[CrystalBlue]

17 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I've been thinking about this case for several days and found it odd that I can't recall ANY family members from Mark's side of the family giving interviews for the show!  Where were his mother/father/siblings??  Usually the production crew can enlist some family member to talk about the formative/adult years of a person who obviously turned out to be a sociopath:  MARK WINGER!

Having worked on the defense side of the criminal justice system for YEARS I can categorically say that sociopaths don't emerge one day in adulthood to commit such heinous crimes!  There are always signs and symptoms that, upon reflection, parents/siblings/friends may recall.  There has been a lot of research done in this area and I've studied a lot of it.  The continuing pathology of him hiring a hit man to knock off a childhood friend who refused to post bail $$$ for him from prison speaks to the depths of his depravity.  

I feel very sorry for the surviving children as I hope they are receiving the mental health services they will need to cope with their genetic legacy (with the exception of Bailey) of their bio father's anti-social behavior and criminal history.  Its never easy for the children (regardless of whether or not they physically sever from him or not) to live with and effectively interpret their response to their parents' marriage and all the fallout from Rebecca's and Mark's union and Mark's subsequent horrendous criminal behavior.

I was also interested in why this wasn't considered a death penalty case (if they have the death penalty in Illlinois--maybe it's been eliminated?) because of the premeditation and heinous nature of the actual murder and dragging in and killing another innocent victim, Roger.  If anyone deserved the death penalty, from my experience, Mark Winger certainly did on the basis of his atrocious crimes!

Death penalty was repealed in Illinois in 2011.  He's never getting out with life without possibility of parole plus the 35 years tacked on for the hitman.

[Diana Berry]

About last nights’ case...all because of a broken door.  Breaks my heart. 

[Madding crowd]

It was really a heartbreaking story. I live in Illinois and I remember when it was all over the news. I cried at how they questioned the little boy and again when the murderer said she cried for her daddy.

[BusyOctober]

Lately it seems we get more and more stories about wrongful convictions and botched police investigations.  Instead of saying “The spouse did it” 5 minutes into the broadcast, I find myself saying “What evidence did the cops miss/ ignore?” 
 
There should be funds in small town police and district attorneys budgets to call in more experienced investigators immediately when a murder happens.  The local police don’t seem to have the experience or text book knowledge to handle these cases.  FFS, don’t any of them ever watch shows like 20/20 or Dateline???In poor little Riley’s case, the cops had the goddamn shoes of the murderer with his @&#$* initials in them!  WTF? 

Thank God for that defense lawyer Kevin had representing him!  

I sure hope that evil bitch who interviewed that little boy lost her job.  Her questioning was a shit show from the jump.  Who allows a child to cry and sob uncontrollably for that long?

That whole family suffered additional unnecessary pain because of the shoddy investigation tactics. That district attorney who lead the persecution of Kevin should be ashamed of himself.

 

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

About last nights’ case...all because of a broken door.  Breaks my heart. 

My first and last thought about this tragedy, as well....

[Diana Berry]

4 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Lately it seems we get more and more stories about wrongful convictions and botched police investigations.  Instead of saying “The spouse did it” 5 minutes into the broadcast, I find myself saying “What evidence did the cops miss/ ignore?” 
 
There should be funds in small town police and district attorneys budgets to call in more experienced investigators immediately when a murder happens.  The local police don’t seem to have the experience or text book knowledge to handle these cases.  FFS, don’t any of them ever watch shows like 20/20 or Dateline???In poor little Riley’s case, the cops had the goddamn shoes of the murderer with his @&#$* initials in them!  WTF? 

Thank God for that defense lawyer Kevin had representing him!  

I sure hope that evil bitch who interviewed that little boy lost her job.  Her questioning was a shit show from the jump.  Who allows a child to cry and sob uncontrollably for that long?

That whole family suffered additional unnecessary pain because of the shoddy investigation tactics. That district attorney who lead the persecution of Kevin should be ashamed of himself.

 

Like the mother said everyone is human and makes mistakes, including detectives.  But that was just too much.  It wasn’t initials in the shoes  — I believe it was his full last name! Luckily the father didn’t  spend too much time in jail.  

I watch a lot of these shows and wasn’t familiar with the case.

i had a relative that purposely left her purse and money on the entry table in case someone broke in.  I think the perpetrator did say if they had anything monetary he would have just taken it and left.  Rest In Peace little one.

[tinderbox]

10 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

About last nights’ case...all because of a broken door.  Breaks my heart. 

....and the fact that he didn’t leave the kids at his mother-in-law’s home.  So foolish to pick them up at 1:30 a.m.  

[Madding crowd]

He had no way to know something like that would happen. Maybe the MIL needed to go somewhere the next day. I don’t blame the parents at all, the rapist psycho is 100 % to blame here .

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

He had no way to know something like that would happen. Maybe the MIL needed to go somewhere the next day. I don’t blame the parents at all, the rapist psycho is 100 % to blame here .

Absolutely.  A broken door isn't to blame either.  Psycho Rapist had evil in his heart (if he even has one other than crying for himself) and is using the excuse that it was just supposed to be a simple burglary but there nothing of value, so I took the most valuable thing they had.  Thing.  Not child, human being, little girl.  He just wants to appear more pathetic for sympathy and blame the victim(s) (who were the parents).  How do you go from stealing something of value to sexual assault of a baby and then snuff that life out unless you're evil?  LWOP is too good for this monster.

[iwantcookies]

Riley would be 20 years old if it wasn’t for Scott Eby. I’m glad he will die in jail. 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 3/6/2021 at 5:43 AM, Melina22 said:

This one was new to me too. What a creepy story. I have so many questions. I feel like there was so much left out about both families. 

The opening annoyed me. All the innocent saintly victim tropes, right down to "She lit up a room!" Then they proceeded to describe someone who to be honest sounded sort of awful. Not as awful as Tammy and Sidney, obviously, who were heinous, but still awful. 

That said, having a child disappear and never be found has to be one of life's worst nightmares, even worse than knowing your child died. I hope someone eventually talks and ends their suffering. 

I'm confused as to how they supposedly killed her in the one minute window. I have to assume one of them drove up, shot her, and threw her in the truck. Weirdly, that's  how I hope it happened, because that way she'd barely have time to react or be scared before it was over. But then where did they put her. And the cousin who saw a photo? That doesn't make sense. 

Too many questions... 

 

I followed this on Websleuths when it was happening. Tammy is CRAYZEE. If you need any new rabbit holes, this is a compelling one. 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 3/18/2021 at 8:28 AM, Melina22 said:

Good point. I should put that in my will. "If I die or disappear under mysterious circumstances, anyone who doesn't say I lit up a room is disinherited. My husband included. (Even if he's found innocent.)" 

About me: “She liked cats.”

*thousands of remotes click to another channel.*

[AryasMum]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:50 AM, Diana Berry said:

About last nights’ case...all because of a broken door.  Breaks my heart. 

I can’t imagine how the father feels - if he’d made different decisions, it wouldn’t have happened. If he’d let the children stay the night with their grandmother. If he’d put the children to bed instead of leaving them in the living room. If they’d fixed the broken door. Of course this is absolutely not his fault, but that doesn’t stop a parent from blaming themselves. 
 

I’ve always been terrified of things like leaving a door unlocked at night, or leaving a window open on the main floor. The Night Stalker often chose his targets randomly, and in these situations. The BTK killer once spontaneously changed his plan because he saw a little boy walk into a house. And of course Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapper got in through an open kitchen window. 

[tinderbox]

18 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I followed this on Websleuths when it was happening. Tammy is CRAYZEE. If you need any new rabbit holes, this is a compelling one. 

Please refresh my memory....  Who, in this tragic story, is Tammy.

[Tabbygirl521]

45 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

Please refresh my memory....  Who, in this tragic story, is Tammy.

Tammy Moorer, the wife of Sidney, with whom Heather Elvis had an affair. Websleuths members posted all kinds of incredible stuff about her and their relationship. The Heather Elvis threads there are so morbidly fascinating. 

[tinderbox]

10 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Tammy Moorer, the wife of Sidney, with whom Heather Elvis had an affair. Websleuths members posted all kinds of incredible stuff about her and their relationship. The Heather Elvis threads there are so morbidly fascinating. 

Thank you.

[klh25]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:04 AM, AryasMum said:

I can’t imagine how the father feels - if he’d made different decisions, it wouldn’t have happened. If he’d let the children stay the night with their grandmother. If he’d put the children to bed instead of leaving them in the living room. If they’d fixed the broken door. Of course this is absolutely not his fault, but that doesn’t stop a parent from blaming themselves. 
 

I’ve always been terrified of things like leaving a door unlocked at night, or leaving a window open on the main floor. The Night Stalker often chose his targets randomly, and in these situations. The BTK killer once spontaneously changed his plan because he saw a little boy walk into a house. And of course Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapper got in through an open kitchen window. 

This one just broke my heart :(  Such a sweet little girl.  Eby is true evil, glad they caught him and he is locked away.   I hate when I put in two hours of my life and it isn't resolved at the end. 

[pdlinda]

22 minutes ago, klh25 said:

This one just broke my heart :(  Such a sweet little girl.  Eby is true evil, glad they caught him and he is locked away.   I hate when I put in two hours of my life and it isn't resolved at the end. 

I wanted to mention my belief that if the remarkable Kathleen Zellner hadn't been brought on board to represent the father I seriously DOUBT if that sub-human, Eby, would ever have been caught.

I have no idea how the family retained the services of Atty. Zellner nor how she was compensated.  I recall the brilliant defense work she did for Ryan Ferguson who was wrongly convicted of a murder and incarcerated for over 10 YRS.  I believe the family had some type of defense fund to pay for Kathleen Zellner.  All the exhibits, research and other info she needed to develop the strong case she did to get Ryan Ferguson exonerated were very costly. 

The models and exhibits she constructed in this case (even though they had nothing to do with the DNA evidence that finally convicted Eby) must have been very expensive to produce and the tireless investigations she conducted also were very costly. 

In the end, she was able to accomplish getting the father exonerated so her representation was certainly worth whatever her fees were for all the years she represented the family.

In Ryan's case, he received an $11 million settlement.  In this case, the family received a settlement of $9Million so, presumably she was paid from those funds.

I felt bad that the couple's marriage was unable to survive this tragedy; however, upon reflection, I have come to accept that after so much trauma that took place over so many years, the emotional stamina spouses have toward each other may become frayed and each may cry out for a "new start." 

As I am writing this, my eyes are tearing up because the enormity of the crime and its effect on all those who loved the precious little girl.  That the proper resolution of the case was reached makes the situation, at the very least, bearable and, and, at the very most, hopeful.

 

[klh25]

1 minute ago, pdlinda said:

I wanted to mention my belief that if the remarkable Kathleen Zellner hadn't been brought on board to represent the father I seriously DOUBT if that sub-human, Eby, would ever have been caught.

I have no idea how the family retained the services of Atty. Zellner nor how she was compensated.  I recall the brilliant defense work she did for Ryan Ferguson who was wrongly convicted of a murder and incarcerated for over 10 YRS.  I believe the family had some type of defense fund to pay for Kathleen Zellner.  All the exhibits, research and other info she needed to develop the strong case she did to get Ryan Ferguson exonerated were very costly. 

The models and exhibits she constructed in this case (even though they had nothing to do with the DNA evidence that finally convicted Eby) must have been very expensive to produce and the tireless investigations she conducted also were very costly. 

In the end, she was able to accomplish getting the father exonerated so her representation was certainly worth whatever her fees were for all the years she represented the family.

In Ryan's case, he received an $11 million settlement.  In this case, the family received a settlement of $9Million so, presumably she was paid from those funds.

I felt bad that the couple's marriage was unable to survive this tragedy; however, upon reflection, I have come to accept that after so much trauma that took place over so many years, the emotional stamina spouses have toward each other may become frayed and each may cry out for a "new start." 

As I am writing this, my eyes are tearing up because the enormity of the crime and its effect on all those who loved the precious little girl.  That the proper resolution of the case was reached makes the situation, at the very least, bearable and, and, at the very most, hopeful.

 

I will have to look up Ryan Ferguson, not sure I'm familiar with that story.  The Detectives did the father so completely wrong here, was pretty shameful.  I know they wanted to "catch" someone but man that was disgusting.  I'm sad too that they couple couldn't stay together after everything they had been through.  

[pdlinda]

17 minutes ago, klh25 said:

I will have to look up Ryan Ferguson, not sure I'm familiar with that story.  The Detectives did the father so completely wrong here, was pretty shameful.  I know they wanted to "catch" someone but man that was disgusting.  I'm sad too that they couple couldn't stay together after everything they had been through.  

Ryan Ferguson's case was amply recorded on several of the true-crime shows:   Dateline, 20/20 and 48 hours, over the 10 years of his incarceration.  His father was unrelenting in his pursuit of the truth and spearheaded the public interest in the case.  

Among the most interesting features of the Ferguson case was that the actual killer of the murdered sports reporter(editor) was never found, nor did the prosecution/police dept. show much interest in pursuing him/her after Ryan was exonerated.  There are other interesting features of the case that you also might "enjoy." (I intentionally am putting that word in quotes)

[Lisa418722]

1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

Ryan Ferguson's case was amply recorded on several of the true-crime shows:   Dateline, 20/20 and 48 hours, over the 10 years of his incarceration.  His father was unrelenting in his pursuit of the truth and spearheaded the public interest in the case.  

Among the most interesting features of the Ferguson case was that the actual killer of the murdered sports reporter(editor) was never found, nor did the prosecution/police dept. show much interest in pursuing him/her after Ryan was exonerated.  There are other interesting features of the case that you also might "enjoy." (I intentionally am putting that word in quotes)

It looks like Charles Erickson is still in prison.  From what I can find he filed for an appeal last year, but I can't find anything more recent than that. 

 

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

It looks like Charles Erickson is still in prison.  From what I can find he filed for an appeal last year, but I can't find anything more recent than that. 

 

I'm not surprised because, again, if Ryan didn't have the services of his brilliant attorney my belief is that he, too, would still be languishing (rotting) in prison.

Charles Erickson had other issues that had to be dealt with (like his dreams and confession) and the fact that he was obviously cognitively impaired, but without a super zealous and talented attorney ready, willing and able to tackle the case (and get paid for it), unfortunately, he'll probably never get out.  Too bad because as the facts showed neither Ryan nor Charlie had anything to do with the crime.

[Spartan Girl]

Anybody watching the Scott Peterson special? Good lord, I can’t believe he might get a new trial. I hope Laci’s family can get through this.

The sister-in-law comes off as a twat to me.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[SoMuchTV]

33 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Anybody watching the Scott Peterson special? Good lord, I can’t believe he might get a new trial. I hope Laci’s family can get through this.

The sister-in-law comes off as a twat to me.

I’m “watching” but not too closely. Is there any new info that wasn’t in the miniseries that was on one of the streaming services a few months ago?  So far I haven’t been able to pick up on anything.  

[pdlinda]

18 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’m “watching” but not too closely. Is there any new info that wasn’t in the miniseries that was on one of the streaming services a few months ago?  So far I haven’t been able to pick up on anything.  

Did I already see this snooze-fest with the sister-in-law and her delusional "investigation" to re-open the case, OR was it on another show?? (48 HRS maybe???)

[partofme]

12 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Did I already see this snooze-fest with the sister-in-law and her delusional "investigation" to re-open the case, OR was it on another show?? (48 HRS maybe???)

It was on 20/20 two weeks ago.  I was wondering if 20/20 is on Peterson’s defense team. 

[Ellee]

I didn’t watch very closely. 
 

Scott Petersen is exactly where he belongs in my opinion.  I don’t see anything new or what ‘fact’ exist that he deserves a new trial.  
 

Tell me what I’m missing please. 

[pdlinda]

3 hours ago, partofme said:

It was on 20/20 two weeks ago.  I was wondering if 20/20 is on Peterson’s defense team. 

Ya mean it's a continuation of the nonsensical show (now I recall it was 20/20) they aired 2 weeks ago??? OMG!!  The producers must be running out of ideas and material to interest the viewer.  Something fishy here.

[Spartan Girl]

32 minutes ago, Ellee said:

I didn’t watch very closely. 
 

Scott Petersen is exactly where he belongs in my opinion.  I don’t see anything new or what ‘fact’ exist that he deserves a new trial.  
 

Tell me what I’m missing please. 

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

People on Twitter think the sister-in-law is only doing this because she’s obsessed with him. Wouldn’t shock me if there is something going on. With the exception of the half-sister who rightfully sees him for what he is, everyone in the Peterson family is delusional.

[pdlinda]

44 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

People on Twitter think the sister-in-law is only doing this because she’s obsessed with him. Wouldn’t shock me if there is something going on. With the exception of the half-sister who rightfully sees him for what he is, everyone in the Peterson family is delusional.

I'm about 15 mins into the show and I would say the Peterson family is not the only source of "delusion and denial." 

If the defense team thought this portrayal of Scott would be assisting them in their call for a new trial, I'd say it's accomplishing just the OPPOSITE!!

Bad messaging and bad judgment on the part of the defense in the person of Janey Peterson.

[iwantcookies]

Scott is guilty. He should not be released ever. I guess divorce was not an option for him...

[mamadrama]

Scott is guilty AF and is right where he should be...

That said, there were some sketchy things that happened during the investigation, like announcing his fishing location, and if Gerragos had had his shit together better I think he could've won. 

Still, he doesn't deserve a new trial. 

[iwantcookies]

I finally watched the Mark Winger episode. What a sick POS! I felt bad for his kids. And Rebecca was so young and pretty when she married Mark. 
 

I wonder if Bailey ever met her birth mother!

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Scott is guilty. He should not be released ever. I guess divorce was not an option for him...

It was an option for him, he just didn't take it.  The death penalty being overturned (pending a new trial) is not that problematic for me because California doesn't execute anymore.  We still have the DP, but for right now there's a moratorium on it.  LWOP is the best alternative; no parole board hearings for the victims' family and friends to have to endure.  Being a baby killer must not get him any brownie points in prison.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Good point.  If the death penalty is changed to life without parole, then he wouldn't be isolated from other prisoners.    He might want to rethink his plan.      I'm totally sick of people lying about witnessing different events that could not have happened, in an effort to free him.     My opinion is that Scott would never have divorced Lacy, because he wouldn't want to split any property, or pay child support.   

The half-sister that went against the Peterson family statements that it was all a frame job is the only person in that family that I can stand.   She told the truth, and I'm sure that she had a lot of hatred, and harassment from the Peterson family, especially Scott's revolting excuse for a mother.   

The police have proven over and over that what people claim they saw that day either was another day, or the time was wrong, or they simply made it up.   My view is Amber (the girlfriend who helped the police) was a very brave woman, and she's lucky she didn't stay connected to him. 

[klh25]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:40 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Anybody watching the Scott Peterson special? Good lord, I can’t believe he might get a new trial. I hope Laci’s family can get through this.

The sister-in-law comes off as a twat to me.

I almost spit out my water!  lol.  It's ridiculous, the guy is so totally guilty.  What a waste of time and resources.  I was shaking my head the whole show, he is just gross. 

On 5/15/2021 at 8:02 PM, iwantcookies said:

Scott is guilty. He should not be released ever. I guess divorce was not an option for him...

That is what I don't get...don't people watch crime shows? lol.  How often do they actually get to run off with the mistress and insurance money?  The one that still kills me the most though is Chris Watts, so awful.  

[iwantcookies]

I’m watching the Scott thing on Hulu that aired on A and E. OMG how annoying is Nancy Grace. And the same relative is claiming Scott is innocent. 
 

 

@klh25 I agree he really thought he was going to get away with it. 
 

He definitely didn’t want to lose his $$$ in the divorce!

[iwantcookies]

Episode from last night:

Lester Jones is guilty. His wife believed in his innocence until she died... why I don’t understand.

At least Paige was found so her relatives have closure. Her kids messages broke my heart.

[eel21788]

6 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Episode from last night:

Lester Jones is guilty. His wife believed in his innocence until she died... why I don’t understand.

At least she told the truth when she was on the stand. She could have stonewalled them with things like she didn't recognize him as the guy buying the tracphone, etc.

[Court]

Jones is definitely guilty. I would have convicted easily. Frank Birgfield reminds me of my Papa.

[iwantcookies]

Was there a new episode last night?

[pdlinda]

3 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Was there a new episode last night?

no

[CrazyInAlabama]

If it's the same network as Shark Tank, they're showing NHL hockey games.