20/20

[Melina22]

I think my jaw is still on the floor from watching the 2 interrogations. I managed to go into this show with absolutely no clue what happened, and I was gobsmacked. The girls spoke like evil children from a badly written movie. 

I still can hardly get my head around how utterly lacking in remorse they both were, and how articulate and even cunning they were about it. 

In a case like this, there's no good outcome. How do you deal with 12 year old murderers who have no conscience? I have no answer. I'm definitely going to do more reading though. 

[Angeltoes]

The chilliest comment to me was when the one girl casually asked where the body was.  Not asking if her friend was okay but almost as if she was enjoying picturing the body still out there carved up in the woods.

[Melina22]

You know it's bad when the hardened detectives questioning them are in shock. Like at the girl asking extremely perceptive questions like "Are you asking the same question several times to see if I give different answers?" or "I wonder if they'll send me to prison or an insane asylum". A 12 year old girl! Totally relaxed. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

It really scares me that the Slenderman criminals could ever get out.     They are both so delusional, and their families are so delusional about them, that I don't see any hope about on going treatment if they ever get out.  

Edited November 2, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[sskrill]

The Texas Temple love triangle.  Once again, what is Nancy Grace's value-add here?  

Narrator:  "David says he wasn't home."

NG:  "David says he wasn't home!"

Narrator:  "They found gun shot residue on David's clothes."

NG:  "They found gun shot residue on David's clothes!!"

Yes Nancy, we heard, literally 10 seconds before you repeated it.

20/20 is wasting money on her salary.

I was glad to see Kelly Siegler in this case - I lived in Harris County for years and have vague memories of her on the news, and have watched plenty of episodes of Cold Justice, but it was nice to see some footage from when she was actually practicing.

I also don't care for things like that prosecutor (I think) referring to the second wife as "smoking hot" during the trial.  I know they're trying to create a mindset about how David would have wanted her over his "fat" wife, but its just so unprofessional.  But maybe in the days of reality television, and the dumbing down of this country, this is how they have to relate to the general public.  And when they showed Wife 2 on the stand she was anything but hot.  She looked like she had quite a bit of bad plastic surgery. 

Also David's demeanor and expressions make him look awful.  Between the 2 of them, I don't think I could have ever voted not guilty. 

And how many defense attorneys does he have?  I think I counted at least 5 - including Dick DeGuerin - who I know does not come cheap.

Edited November 2, 2019 by sskrill
spacing

[Melina22]

12 hours ago, sskrill said:

The Texas Temple love triangle.  Once again, what is Nancy Grace's value-add here?  

I actually paused it on her face to figure out why I get such a negative reaction every time I see her, and I realized it's because she always looks like an Angry Bird, disgusted with whoever is being discussed. She's stridently berating someone 100% of the time. She just sets my teeth on edge. 

In the end, I found this one so unsatisfying. Is the husband the monster he appears to be? His son doesn't think so. And what about the girlfriend? Why did she suddenly divorce him? So many fascinating, unanswered questions. 

[TVbitch]

I'm guessing he's guilty, but there was no physical evidence in this case. There entire case was "we don't know who else could have done it." Glad I was not on the jury.

I hope that is not how trials go down these days. With the "smoking hot" comment, and the second lady prosecuter laughing with the other possible suspect about his teenage pot smoking. And her power walking around the courtroom acting out how she could stage a crime scene in 20 seconds was pretty laughable.  

[Melina22]

It was weird how they mentioned the teenage neighbour, dismissed him, later talked like he did it, dismissed him again, then 20 years later made it sound like he might have done it, then apparently decided he didn't.

I'm curious to know if he's had a clean record in the last 20 years, but we were left clueless. He actually seemed pretty sanguine considering all the aspersions he's had cast on his reputation over the years. 

[sskrill]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

disgusted with whoever is being discussed. She's stridently berating someone 100% of the time. She just sets my teeth on edge. 

In the end, I found this one so unsatisfying. Is the husband the monster he appears to be? His son doesn't think so. And what about the girlfriend? Why did she suddenly divorce him? So many fascinating, unanswered questions. 

Yes - she is never just having a discussion about law/evidence, she is snarling and barking out why Mr/s X is a piece of shit.  I would rather listen to the attorneys involved and the local news reporters they include.  The reporters were covering the story from day one - their input is more useful than hers.

The poor son is the biggest loser in all this.  I always feel bad for the kids in these situations - they lose so much family when its parent/parent murder.

I think the husband was selfish - do I think he's a threat to the rest of society? No.  But he needs to be punished if he did it, and the jury seems to think he did.

I know its ridiculous but I feel like the dog sold him out on this - everyone talked about how no one but family could get past the dog - so how could it be neighbor kid?  Even the neighbor across the street seemed to be implying that he didn't think anyone but David could have gotten by the dog. 

I don't necessarily believe the eye witness who said he saw him near the rice paddies, but I do believe he had enough time to discard shoes/clothes/gun after he left the house with the child.  There are a thousand strip malls in that area, he could have ditched evidence in any dumpster along the way.

[sskrill]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I hope that is not how trials go down these days. With the "smoking hot" comment, ... And her power walking around the courtroom acting out how she could stage a crime scene in 20 seconds was pretty laughable.  

Yes, that stunt looked stupid, however I do think that was an issue too.  Nothing of value was taken - I feel if it had been teen neighbor boy he would have taken some things he thought he could pawn or sell.  The fact that almost nothing was touched, and the TV was gently laid on its side, seems to scream staging.

[Melina22]

21 minutes ago, sskrill said:

I know its ridiculous but I feel like the dog sold him out on this - everyone talked about how no one but family could get past the dog - so how could it be neighbor kid?  Even the neighbor across the street seemed to be implying that he didn't think anyone but David could have gotten by the dog. 

Oh my, you're right! I would love this to be a series or a podcast. There are so many aspects of the story that never got touched on. 

[truebluesmoky]

As a mom, I also don’t believe that a parent would take a sick three year old out to the park and to run errands after he had come home from school early. The errands seemed like a way to establish an alibi, ditch the gun, and have a way to come home to a body. 

[Lovecat]

On 10/20/2019 at 7:40 AM, msrachelj said:

Did anyone watch Dorothy Stratton? I don't know why they are re-hashing this 29 year old story but I watched it..

I hate to break it to you, but 1980 was actually 39 years ago!  I can hardly wrap my mind around it myself, since it seems like just yesterday, but I checked it with a calculator and everything   😉

[thejuicer]

I just watched Texas Temple Love Triangle.

Evan, when you speak of your mom as only your "biological mother" because she didn't raise you, remember that she was murdered, execution-style, while she was 8 months pregnant with your sister.  She wanted very badly to raise you, and watch you grow up and do wonderful things with your life, but someone took that opportunity, and her life away. Something about his testimony was just so wrong, and it tells me everything about how his father and his stepmom raised him. It further cemented in my mind that his father is a callous murderer. I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison. Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one.

[UsernameFatigue]

11 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

As a mom, I also don’t believe that a parent would take a sick three year old out to the park and to run errands after he had come home from school early. The errands seemed like a way to establish an alibi, ditch the gun, and have a way to come home to a body. 

Not only would you think a parent would not want to take a sick kid to run errands, but also as a mom you would not have wanted your husband to take the sick kid to run errands so that you could lie down and rest, which is what David's excuse was. You would want your husband to care for the kid at home while you rested. Also why would David want to take a sick kid to a park to play? For an alibi, of course.

And of course there was his unwillingness to try to help Belinda once he "found" her. Or help his unborn child for that matter. Of course he knew they were long gone. 

David really should have practiced his fake crying while waiting in jail. He scrunched up face with no tears, and then direct look at the camera during his trial was pathetic.

Evan was very disconnected it appeared from his mother's death. When showing pictures of him as a child in court, he just kept smiling at how cute he apparently thought he was. I would imagine David and mistress turned wife/step mommy did a good job over the years of erasing any memory of her from his mind. 

I read a book several years ago called "Shattered" about this case. It brought up many other points that pointed to David's guilt. This case it seems has appeared here and other similar type threads several times. I can't believe it still isn't over. It is too bad that the penalty phase cannot be decided by a judge. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[Melina22]

I almost didn't watch last night's show about the Buttafuocos but I'm glad I did. The whole thing was way messier than I ever remembered, and I found it riveting and sad, especially seeing the toll it's taken on Mary Jo and her children. 

As the daughter said, there were several villains and they definitely include the talk show hosts who admit they hoped for the "reunion" shows to be as trainwrecky as possible. 

I'm pretty sure Mary Jo is correct in her assertion that Joey is a sociopath, but I'm pretty sure Amy is too. Neither of them appear to understand the meaning of remorse, although they can obviously fake it when necessary. 

[itsadryheat]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I almost didn't watch last night's show about the Buttafuocos but I'm glad I did. 

It was way worse then I remember. So awful, for so long for MaryJo and the kids.

Agree about sociopathy on Joe and Amy and will add that creepy producer who is reuniting with Joey for his life story. The smirky, gleeful look on his face during his solo interview(s) were unnerving. 

I have empathy for MaryJo on so many levels. She new Joey when they were teens. Nobody knew about sociopaths back then. They have kids. Small town. Catholic (never give up, forgive, etc). and poor strong Jessie. So damaged from this, her walls may never come down. Joey robbed his daughter from ever trusting.

And he's getting a movie about his sociopath life, produced by another sociopath.

[Melina22]

23 minutes ago, itsadryheat said:

And he's getting a movie about his sociopath life, produced by another sociopath.

I was so disturbed at how mildly surprised he was to find out Mary Jo had considered killing herself and her children. "She did? Oh, that's a shame". Like he had nothing to do with it, or like such a thing had never occurred to him. It must be nice to be so conscience-free. 

[Annber03]

On 10/31/2019 at 4:31 PM, Angeltoes said:

The chilliest comment to me was when the one girl casually asked where the body was.  Not asking if her friend was okay but almost as if she was enjoying picturing the body still out there carved up in the woods.

And what's more, she said "I thought it was still out in the woods", not "I thought she was out in the woods". She's already ceased to view Payton as a person, as a friend, at that point. 

I just caught up on the Slenderman episode this evening. I'd seen a story on this before, of course, 'cause this case has been covered so many places, and I'd seen those interviews, but some of the clips they showed tonight were new to me and all the more chilling. The bit about them considering killing her in the bathroom stall, and noting the fact that there would be a drain for the blood to go down...I mean...to think of 12 year olds having that level of planning and forethought is beyond disturbing. I completely get and sympathize with the concerns about charging 12 year olds as adults, but the complete lack of remorse these girls showed, the fact they planned it all out the way they did, the sophisticated knowledge they had about interrogations and whatnot...it's hard to view them as innocent 12 year olds who made a horrible mistake after that. 

I do think it's wise to put them in a mental facility, though, 'cause it's very clear they have some deeper issues going on. I sincerely hope they can get the kind of help they need, and I hope they and their families can find a way to work through and deal with all of this somehow. 

It kind of bugged me that there was so much being made about the drawings and the books they read and whatnot. I get that it's easy to be extra concerned about that stuff in the context of everything else involving these girls, but at the same time, like the one mom noted, lots of kids read Stephen King books and other dark and disturbing stories and yet have turned out okay. And there's plenty of kids that make weird, creepy drawings or create spooky stories simply because they have vivid, creative imaginations, not because there's something mentally wrong with them. It takes much more than writing/drawing/reading creepy things to indicate whether or not a kid's going to turn out violent, and I hope that parents in general can keep that in mind going forward, instead of jumping to conclusions. 

Anywho, yeah, very chilling story. But damn, Payton is amazing and impressive. I appreciate her honesty in how she feels about everything that happened, and the girls themselves, and I admire her for moving on as she has. I hope she sees many more good things in her future. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Annber03

[UsernameFatigue]

Honestly, I didn't really understand the point of the whole 2 hours. Other than Joey still trying to cash in, was there anything new? Mary Jo's book is a decade old. Did I miss something? 

I find it hard to sympathize with Jessica when she seems to enjoy the spot light as much as her father. If she really thought that this affected her life to the degree that she claims, why would she not change her name and fade into the woodwork like her brother did? Why do a two hour 20/20 show, so that the subject can be rehashed, almost 30 years later? I am not trying to be mean, but honestly during the 2 hours I often felt that she was way more like her father than her mother.

I don't really understand either how her father has robbed her of ever having a normal life? Even Mary Jo remarried, and presumably would still be married if her 2nd husband had he not died last year. (Though I find it odd that Mary Jo as well still uses the Buttafuoco name when she could have gone back to her maiden name, or taken her 2nd husband's name). We have certainly seen children recover from much worse that what Jessica went through (ie. father actually kill their mother), where the child loses both parents. Yes, the media  (and Joey) made it worse, but Jessica is in her mid 30s and has had many years to become her own person, like her brother appears to have. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[walnutqueen]

30 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Honestly, I didn't really understand the point of the whole 2 hours. Other than Joey still trying to cash in, was there anything new? Mary Jo's book is a decade old. Did I miss something? 

I find it hard to sympathize with Jessica when she seems to enjoy the spot light as much as her father. If she really thought that this affected her life to the degree that she claims, why would she not change her name and fade into the woodwork like her brother did? Why do a two hour 20/20 show, so that the subject can be rehashed, almost 30 years later? I am not trying to be mean, but honestly during the 2 hours I often felt that she was way more like her father than her mother.

I don't really understand either how her father has robbed her of ever having a normal life, Even Mary Jo remarried, and presumably would still be married if her 2nd husband had he not died last year. (Though I find it odd that Mary Jo as well still uses the Buttafuco name when she could have gone back to her maiden name, or taken her 2nd husband's name). We have certainly seen children recover from much worse that what Jessica went through (ie. father actually kill their mother), where the child loses both parents. Yes, the media  (and Joey) made it worse, but Jessica is in her mid 30s and has had many years to become her own person, like her brother appears to have. 

Like father, like daughter.  Famewhores who loooove the camera, the both of them.  They all need to step out of the spotlight and quit blaming others for enabling their need for infamy and $$$.

Get a fucking J.O.B. and shutty.

[UsernameFatigue]

33 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Like father, like daughter.  Famewhores who loooove the camera, the both of them.  They all need to step out of the spotlight and quit blaming others for enabling their need for infamy and $$$.

Get a fucking J.O.B. and shutty.

I am sooo glad that I am not the only one who feels this way! (And I should have known you would too, WQ, as we both have a low tolerance for B.S.!).  The thing that I think annoyed me the most was that there is no way 20/20 would have given Joey one hour, let alone two hours, to peddle his movie, unless there were other family members who agreed to do the show as well. So if Mary Jo and Jessica had said no (as Paul did) there would not have been a episode devoted to something that happened 27 friggin' years ago. So stop with the whining about media when you two are happy to still live your life as Buttafuocos, and continue living the notoriety (and in fact court it) that goes along with the name. 

[walnutqueen]

3 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am sooo glad that I am not the only one who feels this way! (And I should have known you would too, WQ, as we both have a low tolerance for B.S.!).  The thing that I think annoyed me the most was that there is no way 20/20 would have given Joey one hour, let alone two hours, to peddle his movie, unless there were other family members who agreed to do the show as well. So if Mary Jo and Jessica had said no (as Paul did) there would not have been a episode devoted to something that happened 27 friggin' years ago. So stop with the whining about media when you two are happy to still live your life as Buttafuocos, and continue living the notoriety (and in fact court it) that goes along with the name. 

A bunch of money-grubbing grotesques, the lot of them - media included.

[juliet73]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Honestly, I didn't really understand the point of the whole 2 hours. Other than Joey still trying to cash in, was there anything new? Mary Jo's book is a decade old. Did I miss something? 

I find it hard to sympathize with Jessica when she seems to enjoy the spot light as much as her father. If she really thought that this affected her life to the degree that she claims, why would she not change her name and fade into the woodwork like her brother did? Why do a two hour 20/20 show, so that the subject can be rehashed, almost 30 years later? I am not trying to be mean, but honestly during the 2 hours I often felt that she was way more like her father than her mother.

I don't really understand either how her father has robbed her of ever having a normal life? Even Mary Jo remarried, and presumably would still be married if her 2nd husband had he not died last year. (Though I find it odd that Mary Jo as well still uses the Buttafuoco name when she could have gone back to her maiden name, or taken her 2nd husband's name). We have certainly seen children recover from much worse that what Jessica went through (ie. father actually kill their mother), where the child loses both parents. Yes, the media  (and Joey) made it worse, but Jessica is in her mid 30s and has had many years to become her own person, like her brother appears to have. 

Yes! To everything you said!  I have a feeling Mary Jo and Jessie were hoping to get a reality show out of this.  The daughter is definitely a fame whore like her dad.  

Besides what has already been mentioned, I thought it was odd that Mary Jo and her daughter kept trying to paint this picture perfect life before Amy Fisher.  Considering Mary Jo mentioned a few times about Joey's drug/alcohol abuse and how he needed to choose between his family or partying, and how they would constantly say "what did Joey do NOW?", tells me the Buttafuoco family wasn't as ideal as they were trying to portray it.  

Mary Jo is a complete doormat and an idiot.  I'm sure Joey was cheating on her long before Amy and I'm sure many times after.  Mary Jo mentioned that after he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute, that was it and they were getting a divorce.  He was arrested for soliciting in 1995 and they didn't divorce until 2003!  Also, she mentioned she only agreed to appear on the talk shows because they were broke because Joey lost $3 million dollars in bad investments.  I guess "bad investments" is code for hookers, blow and spending lavishly while being a complete douche!

Not that I feel sorry for Amy, but the short clip they showed of her being a web cam girl, was sad.  You could definitely see the emptiness in her eyes.  

Kudos to the Buttafuoco son for changing his name and never wanting a part of this sideshow!

[Tabbygirl521]

I had forgotten, or never knew, some of that extra craziness after the Amy Fisher mess. Geez. One of the main things I do recall is that my mom took to answering the phone “Buttafuoco residence.” His ickiness was the gift that kept on giving for quite awhile. But I must have  blocked out all that tabloid nonsense that followed. And I don’t remember that Amy had an accomplice. How about those 2, or was it 3, little psycho friends of her who were so nonchalant about how they were going to help kill Mary Jo but they couldn’t get a clear shot, or they shot and missed. Ho hum. 
 

Joey aged better than I would have expected. I wonder if he gets his hair straightened now, or if that old pubic-hair mullet of his was a perm. 

[slensam]

This show seems to like to go back in the past a lot. It's like an aging band; playing the greatest hits over and over again. I didn't watch this episode since I lived in Jersey at the time and read all the NYC tabloid crap. Then there were the three Amy Fisher movies in the early 90's... 

[Melina22]

8 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I had forgotten, or never knew, some of that extra craziness after the Amy Fisher mess. Geez. 

Same! And I agree that Joey has aged surprisingly well. Visually. Which seems sort of unfair. No pesky guilt-induced wrinkles I guess. (Reminds me of my ex.) 

As for Mary Jo and her children, whatever they need to do to "move on" (my most hated phrase) is okay by me. They didn't ask to be shot in the face or paraded around like circus animals for the public amusement for years, and they don't appear to have deliberately hurt anyone (unlike their father and Amy) so all the best to them.

Clearly Jessie likes to perform, but that doesn't make her evil, and as true crime shows go, I found this one pretty interesting, so it would be hypocritical for me to criticize her. (More and more, watching true crime shows is my most guilty pleasure, in the sense I sometimes feel quite guilty how much I enjoy watching them. I don't know why other people's misery is so fascinating to me. It seems wrong. ) 

8 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

How about those 2, or was it 3, little psycho friends of her who were so nonchalant about how they were going to help kill Mary Jo but they couldn’t get a clear shot, or they shot and missed. Ho hum. 

I know! They also seemed remarkably guilt-free. The rifle guy appears to have been consequence-free as well. Hmmm. 

[msrachelj]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, Lovecat said:

I hate to break it to you, but 1980 was actually 39 years ago!  I can hardly wrap my mind around it myself, since it seems like just yesterday, but I checked it with a calculator and everything   😉

Your'e right! I either hit the 2 instead of the 3 or my mind refuse to believe how fast time is going!

[msrachelj]

10 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I had forgotten, or never knew, some of that extra craziness after the Amy Fisher mess. Geez. One of the main things I do recall is that my mom took to answering the phone “Buttafuoco residence.” His ickiness was the gift that kept on giving for quite awhile. But I must have  blocked out all that tabloid nonsense that followed. And I don’t remember that Amy had an accomplice. How about those 2, or was it 3, little psycho friends of her who were so nonchalant about how they were going to help kill Mary Jo but they couldn’t get a clear shot, or they shot and missed. Ho hum. 
 

Joey aged better than I would have expected. I wonder if he gets his hair straightened now, or if that old pubic-hair mullet of his was a perm. 

I was surprised at how good Joey looks. He has aged nicely. He does seem like someone you would like socially, sociopaths are like that. Of course I am sorry for what happened to Mary Jo but she is unlikable. The daughter is a fame whore. I agree they must be trying for a reality show. What is the "health condition" of Mary Jo the daughter said was the reason she moved back home (yeah right!)? I'd like to know what horrors were going on in Amy's home that she was hooking at 16!

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

I'd like to know what horrors were going on in Amy's home that she was hooking at 16!

Good point. I wondered that. The show gave the impression she was just very spoiled and indulged, but surely there's more to it than that. As someone commented, just going by her expression in the final video, she didn't "get away" with anything. She looked miserable. Not remorseful, necessarily, but certainly empty and miserable. 

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

The daughter is definitely a fame whore like her dad.  

Time has not been kind to her - she looked older than a woman in her 30's.

[Angeltoes]

3 hours ago, msrachelj said:

I'd like to know what horrors were going on in Amy's home that she was hooking at 16!

Amy has said that her father abused her as a child.

My hat is off to Mary Jo's son for leaving the circus and forging his own way.  Jessica needs to follow in his footsteps and stop using her dad's behavior as an excuse for still living with Mommy in her thirties. 

I didn't know, until reading a recent news article, that Mary Jo divorced her second husband and he died a few years later.  

[Ohwell]

I don't remember hearing anything about it on the episode, but does Jessica have a job?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Ohwell

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I don't remember hearing anything about it on the episode, but Jessica have a job?

They didn't say, but I got the sense maybe Jessie was having mental or emotional problems, and having problems coping, although she framed it as moving in to help her mother with medical problems. I'm just speculating though. It definitely sounded like she was getting some kind of counselling. 

She was involved with children's theatre, but that might not be a paid thing. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Melina22

[Ohwell]

14 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

She was involved with children's theatre, but that might not be a paid thing. 

Oops, yes, I do remember seeing that.  Maybe she does get paid but, if so, I wonder if it's enough to live on her own, and why she moved in with her mother.  Or maybe she does have some issues.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:45 PM, OpalNightstream said:

Omg the 2020 producer Brooke Stangeland has the worst vocal fry! She’s the producer, you’d think she’d have a lot of say in how she comes out in this piece. I guess she’s completely unaware of how her voice sounds to others.

I'm curious about her voice. I tried to find piece with it, but, couldn't.  Maybe, it's been removed.  lol  If you have a link, will you post or PM me? 

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

Oops, yes, I do remember seeing that.  Maybe she does get paid but, if so, I wonder if it's enough to live on her own, and why she moved in with her mother.  Or maybe she does have some issues.

People tend to forget or not even know about past events. For her sake, I hope the parents of the children she teaches don't remember the scandal. Although, Jessica admitting she was an alcoholic, with drug and eating disorders probably will not help her theater job.

Mary Jo and Jessica still seem to lay most of the blame on Amy. Who cares how she is earning her living now? They seemed almost giddy at her webcam business. I guess we will never know the truth - Amy said Joey put her up to escorting.

I fast forwarded a lot - is Joey still saying he didn't have a romantic relationship with Amy? one of the soundbites sounded like he did.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Actually, according to articles, and interviews at the time, Joey and Amy were having a sexual relationship, and there were some articles that hinted he was pimping her out.      I still don't understand his wife staying with him for so long after his girlfriend shot her. 

To quote Judge Marilyn, I wouldn't believe Joey B. if his tongue was notarized.   

Edited November 19, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[sainte-chapelle]

I am so glad I am not the only one who finds the Buttafuoco family distasteful. Why didn't Anne Marie change her name? Then there is Jennie the famewhore performing for the cameras just like daddy.  Anne Marie talked a lot about partying and drug use, I think They were both trashy messes before this happened.

[TVbitch]

11/16 episode was a heartbreaker. When that tear rolled down the FBI agent's cheek, it got me. 

[Melina22]

I'm halfway through "Switched at Birth" and I'm stunned by this story. With all the drama, and the twists and turns, once again it's a true story that would seem preposterous and unbelievable if it was a fictional drama. 

ETA Yikes. The further I get in, the crazier the story gets. It's tragic but I think putting Kimberly in the family she ended up in left her with a personality disorder that she almost certainly wouldn't have had if she been raised in her biological family. 

On the other hand, Arlena got to spend her short life surrounded by love, so that was good. 

It's all very upsetting. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Melina22

[EtheltoTillie]

Yes, I just finished watching.  I remember the original story vividly, but had no idea of the sad intervening years.  I hope Kimberly can find some peace. 

[Diana Berry]

31 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Yes, I just finished watching.  I remember the original story vividly, but had no idea of the sad intervening years.  I hope Kimberly can find some peace. 

I fell asleep.  Is Kimberly in contact with the twigs? What was the outcome of her present day life?

[EtheltoTillie]

38 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

I fell asleep.  Is Kimberly in contact with the twigs? What was the outcome of her present day life?

No, she has not spoken to them in many years.  She moved back in with them in her teen years, then left after a year and a half.  Married very young and had four kids.  She felt that Mrs. Twigg was overbearing. and troubled--probably true.  Bob Mays died in 2012.  Mr. and Mrs. Twigg got divorced.  The Twiggs say they would love to speak to her.  She says she might speak to them but is not ready now.  She essentially says that she doesn't know what to do with herself.  She was not parented. 

Also for a while she worked as a stripper and lost custody of her kids.  That was not shown in detail.  Probably one could read up on it. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by GussieK
left stuff out

[Melina22]

Although no doubt Regina had a very strong, possibly overbearing personality, her other children seemed close and happy. The tragedy is that Kimberly was raised in an environment that left her deeply disturbed. If this happened to one of my biological children, I can't even imagine how angry I'd be at whoever thought it was okay to do this. It's like they thought "Oh, they have so many. They won't care if they lose one. They might be relieved." 

[Diana Berry]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

No, she has not spoken to them in many years.  She moved back in with them in her teen years, then left after a year and a half.  Married very young and had four kids.  She felt that Mrs. Twigg was overbearing. and troubled--probably true.  Bob Mays died in 2012.  Mr. and Mrs. Twigg got divorced.  The Twiggs say they would love to speak to her.  She says she might speak to them but is not ready now.  She essentially says that she doesn't know what to do with herself.  She was not parented. 

Also for a while she worked as a stripper and lost custody of her kids.  That was not shown in detail.  Probably one could read up on it. 

Thank you.  I also forgot to ask...the show kept implying the switch wasn’t accidental.  So who did they imply did it?

[msrachelj]

This was very interesting. One big problem I had was whenever Loretta something the ABC news consultant, came on. What is wrong with her face? If is a birth defect or the result of an accident, I apologize.  Otherwise I am going with botched plastic surgery.  

[Melina22]

3 hours ago, msrachelj said:

Otherwise I am going with botched plastic surgery.  

I know! There was something odd about her face, in the way women with a lot of fillers or cheek implants often look odd. She had beautiful eyes and hair, but something wasn't right. 

6 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

Thank you.  I also forgot to ask...the show kept implying the switch wasn’t accidental.  So who did they imply did it?

I think the implication was that someone in the first Mrs. May's family paid off the staff and possibly a doctor to do it so she wouldn't lose a child after waiting 10 years to get pregnant. 

[ChristmasJones]

At the end, they revealed a nurses assistant made a death-bed confession that she had witnessed the exchange - she actually approached an attorney first, and did not seek any compensation.

Based on the fact that this "switch" involved FOUR different hospital tags (two on each baby) being switched.... there is just no way that could be accidental. The medical records also reveal a small window in time when it occurred.

At the very end, they said that Kimberly and Regina have not had contact in 15 years, but that they are both open to the possibility of connecting in the future. 

Its a story about multi-generational abuse and trauma. Very sad, and almost beyond belief.  It does appear that Kimberly would have probably turned out much better had she stayed with her biological family. I say that based on the relationships between the Twigg daughters and their mother.  Kimberly was abused mentally and physically, whereas the Twiggs were not - they did experience trauma from the two deaths, but that occurred in the context of a loving family.

[Guest]

I have this episode recorded (haven't watched it yet), but remember a really good Barbara Walters interview with Kimberly from about five years ago. If you have the ID Channel on your cable line up, you can watch the episode on ID's site. 

YouTube has an excerpt: