20/20 - General Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

I've always thought Darlie was innocent.  She almost died, it makes no sense that she would have cut her neck like that.     Also the sock found down the road points to an intruder.   All of the prosecutions claims can be easily explained away.  Her lawyer was cocky and put on a bad defense.   Darin could be guilty but I think this is one of the rare cases where their actually was an intruder.   

It seemed like her lawyer was arrogant enough to think that he didn't have to do much to win the case, and that his reputation would win it for him. If he had put on experts to refute the prosecution's claims, it may have given the jury reasonable doubt. 

Mind you the juror that they interviewed - wow. Apparently having breast implants is enough for her to believe you can kill your children. That woman was way scarier than Darlie. 

I remember this case from before, and think I also recently saw an rerun of Forensic Files where it was covered. Even then it never made sense to me that she would kill her children for no reason. And if, as the prosecution claims, she didn't want the responsibility of being a mother any longer, why would she not kill all of her kids? Also makes no sense that she would kill her kids with her hubby sleeping right upstairs. Add in the fingerprint, the sock, and the refuted "evidence", and I don't understand why she has never gotten a new trial. 

[hoosiermom]

I am shocked so many here think she is innocent! I have always believed in her innocence but was hesitant to voice my opinion because I always got shot down. I sure wish someone would help her. My heart goes out to her and her family. I think the jury got hung up on that birthday silly string tape as they played it several times during their deliberation. IMO it should never have been admitted in the first place. It was inflammatory and had nothing to do with the crime.

Edited May 13, 2019 by hoosiermom

[Tabbygirl521]

15 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

I am shocked so many here think she is innocent! I have always believed in her innocence but but was hesitant to voice my opinion because I always got shot down. I sure wish someone would help her. My heart goes out to her and her family. I think the jury got hung up on that birthday silly string tape as they played it several times during their deliberation. IMO it should never have been admitted in the first place. It was inflammatory and had nothing to do with the crime.

It was only recently that I saw the whole context of the silly string incident; immediately prior the whole family was weeping and obviously distraught. Then it appeared they pulled themselves together to honor the little guy by having the little “party.” I had only ever seen the silly-string part and judged them all harshly. Now I see it differently. Also, I seem to recall that she was (understandably) sedated at this time, which no doubt had an effect on the face she presented. 

I spent years thinking she was guilty until I saw a lot of additional info like the above. At the very least I feel there is obvious reasonable doubt but personally, I think she is likely innocent. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Tabbygirl521

[rlc]

Yeah, the police pulling out the fifth amendment was enough for me to say something wasn’t right in that investigation, but hey, she has breast implants so she must have murdered her children.

[hoosiermom]

10 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

It was only recently that I saw the whole context of the silly string incident; immediately prior the whole family was weeping and obviously distraught. Then it appeared they pulled themselves together to honor the little guy by having the little “party.” I had only ever seen the silly-string part and judged them all harshly. Now I see it differently. Also, I seem to recall that she was (understandably) sedated at this time, which no doubt had an effect on the face she presented. 

I spent years thinking she was guilty until I saw a lot of additional info like the above. At the very least I feel there is obvious reasonable doubt but personally, I think she is likely innocent. 

At the very least she deserves a new trial if not a complete pardon. For sure after the police pleading the fifth. What kind of horse shit is that?

[Sile]

I think it was just a repeat of the episode of The Last Defense series that aired last year, since it seems that the newest footage was from 2017.

[OpalNightstream]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:25 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

Mind you the juror that they interviewed - wow. Apparently having breast implants is enough for her to believe you can kill your children. That woman was way scarier than Darlie. 

I remember this case from before, and think I also recently saw an rerun of Forensic Files where it was covered. Even then it never made sense to me that she would kill her children for no reason. And if, as the prosecution claims, she didn't want the responsibility of being a mother any longer, why would she not kill all of her kids? Also makes no sense that she would kill her kids with her hubby sleeping right upstairs. Add in the fingerprint, the sock, and the refuted "evidence", and I don't understand why she has never gotten a new trial. 

Yes I was thinking if that one juror is indicative of the rest of the jury, there was no way darlie had a chance of being found innocent. If you don’t live your life like she does (the juror), something is wrong with you. Closed minded and old fashioned. She prob would’ve fit in well with the Scopes jury. 

[Tdoc72]

I’ve always thought she was guilty af. I never seen any evidence that anyone else was in that house. I do agree that the silly string video was not indicative of anything and shouldn’t have been shown to the jury. I’m not sure she deserves a new trial though.

[SunnyBeBe]

For those of you who were following the discussion on Elizabeth Holmes, the former CEO of Theranos, under federal indictment and newly engaged to wealthy heir (No surprise to me.) whose family is worried over him.  I just saw this piece with photos on where the couple had been living.  Very nice indeed.  Man,, 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7037625/San-Francisco-apartment-disgraced-Theranos-founder-Elizabeth-Holmes-lived-fianc.html

[woodscommaelle]

Um, Doreen Juica seems BAT SHIT CRAZY. 

[cathy7304]

I'm confused on the Joe Guica episode. Is he getting a new hearing, trial, or just waiting on a decision? It seemed like the episode came to an abrupt end without a conclusion. 

I agree Mom seems a little out there (to put it kindly). While the juror she was "investigating" seemed odd to say the least and was clearly lying about his statements of racism, wasn't she basically stalking him? How is that legal?

[mamadrama]

On 5/22/2019 at 3:36 PM, cathy7304 said:

I'm confused on the Joe Guica episode. Is he getting a new hearing, trial, or just waiting on a decision? It seemed like the episode came to an abrupt end without a conclusion. 

I agree Mom seems a little out there (to put it kindly). While the juror she was "investigating" seemed odd to say the least and was clearly lying about his statements of racism, wasn't she basically stalking him? How is that legal?

He may be innocent, but his mother's antics are so crazy that it's hard for me to see said innocence. Her actions are clouding my judgment. 

[walnutqueen]

Seriously.  A 2 hour episode about the stupid Dan Wozniak murders that have been done to death by all others, 20/20?  Way to stay relevant.  NOT.

Edited June 2, 2019 by walnutqueen
Dan, not Sam

[jabinlbc]

20 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Seriously.  A 2 hour episode about the stupid Dan Wozniak murders that have been done to death by all others, 20/20?  Way to stay relevant.  NOT.

I totally agree.  Not much more they can add to this one, but I do like seeing many of my hometown haunts (even my ATM!) featured.

[Sara2009]

On 6/2/2019 at 3:03 PM, walnutqueen said:

Seriously.  A 2 hour episode about the stupid Dan Wozniak murders that have been done to death by all others, 20/20?  Way to stay relevant.  NOT.

I actually hadn’t ever heard of the case before this.

[msrachelj]

never mind

Edited June 16, 2019 by msrachelj
wrong place

[LakeGal]

Last night's show about Gypsy the Nanny was an old one.  I had seen it before about the so-called doctor who talked his wife into plastic surgery.  Then he drugged her and killed her in the bathtub.  I am not sure if I remembered hearing about him committing suicide in jail.  But otherwise I remembered this one.  He actually reminded me of a combination of Dirty John and Trump.  

[Medicine Crow]

38 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Last night's show about Gypsy the Nanny was an old one.  I had seen it before about the so-called doctor who talked his wife into plastic surgery.  Then he drugged her and killed her in the bathtub.  I am not sure if I remembered hearing about him committing suicide in jail.  But otherwise I remembered this one.  He actually reminded me of a combination of Dirty John and Trump.  

I watched the first few minutes & thought is "seemed familiar" ... thanks for the warning!!!

[hoosiermom]

18 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

I watched the first few minutes & thought is "seemed familiar" ... thanks for the warning!!!

I had seen some of it before but learned so much more in this one. I almost didn’t watch it.

[Angeltoes]

There's a book about that one which I've got coming to me from the library.

[mamadrama]

They did add some things to the MacNeill story so it wasn't a complete rerun. But damn...that guy was a nutcase on a whole other level. Any one of those stories would've been bad on its own: killing his wife, moving his mistress into the house as the "nanny", sending his adopted daughter back to the Ukraine, stealing his daughter's identity to give it to his girlfriend, falsifying school records...Put them together and it's a damn VC Andrews' novel. 

[sskrill]

Why is Nancy Grace on here?

I appreciate that she's a victims advocate but that persona she created for herself on HLN is overbearing.  That sour face, the way she punctuates certain words, and her overall nasty demeaner are tiresome.

This show is barely journalism without her, with her its just tabloid tv.

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, sskrill said:

appreciate that she's a victims advocate but that persona she created for herself on HLN is overbearing.  That sour face, the way she punctuates certain words, and her overall nasty demeaner are tiresome.

I'm trying to get over my knee-jerk negative reaction to her, but I have to agree. And whoever did her makeup needs to be fired immediately! She looks psycho. 

I wonder if it was the same person who did the makeup for the other older woman? Yikes. When you're over 50, heavily black-lined eyes with lots of dark eyeshadow is so unflattering, as are bright red, smearily lined lips, especially in HD. Neither woman is bad-looking, but that's some outstandingly bad makeup. 

Interesting story though. Strange and different. 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, sskrill said:

Why is Nancy Grace on here?

I appreciate that she's a victims advocate but that persona she created for herself on HLN is overbearing.  That sour face, the way she punctuates certain words, and her overall nasty demeaner are tiresome.

This show is barely journalism without her, with her its just tabloid tv.

And after all this time she still can't pronounce "sentence."  A prosecuting attorney really shouldn't be going on air talking about someone getting a "ten year sennance."

Those kids!  What a contrast in the two of them.  The daughter has had a very hard time out in the real word, but the boy, who hasn't had the test of the real world, seems so settled and serene.  I know lots of convicts "get religion" while inside and often times it's just an act for the parole board, but he seemed sincere and I wonder if it was exactly what he needed.  He has found in Jesus someone to look up to and model who is not his father.

[sskrill]

And I really don't see what the value-add is here.  What is she offering that the host, clinical psychologist, and the other 20 people they interviewed didn't already offer?

I wouldn't mind her if she acted like a normal adult rather than a caricature of a real person.  

And the leather jacket to remind us that she's a badass 🙄

The sibling relationship was weird ... but I guess maybe they were all each other had for years ... so maybe its not as weird as it looks.

[UsernameFatigue]

Regarding the Catt Burglars (I know technically they were robbers and not burglars, but I couldn't resist) I honestly don't believe everything the kids said. When Abby entered to room to be interviewed, the same one where her father had written on the white board the banks that he had robbed in Oregon, she was not the least bit surprised. When the detective mentioned that she was looking at the board, she gave a drawn out "Yaaaaaaa". I think she was surprised that her father confessed to those robberies, but knew that he had committed them. Not to mention there were wrappings from the Oregon banks lying around the apartment. And of course thousands of dollars in cash that they obviously had spent, since they needed to rob more banks to replenish their stash. 

It isn't really surprising to me that the situation with the lady that took Abby in, didn't work out. By this time Abby was 21, and I think the lady, sweet as she was, was treating Abby like a teenager. And what is the point of making someone go to church if they obviously are not getting something out of it? Who knows if Abby had been in a different situation post release if she would have made better choices. But she certainly appeared to have broken every parole condition she likely had, so chances are she would not have.

Interesting that Hayden has adjusted so well to prison. I think unless he does get into a situation involving a church, he will not adjust well to the outside. 

Wow their father was a piece of work. About the only positive thing I can say about him is that he didn't name his kids Tom and Kitty. That's all I got. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[AngelinaMaria]

I didn't believe any of Abby's act.  The entire innocent act was just a big put on.  She came off as very manipulative.  Definitely a "victim" of her circumstances but you could see that she knew right from wrong and enjoyed the ride.  Not sure why more people didn't see through her act (the sheriff and the lady that took her in for starters).

[UsernameFatigue]

11 hours ago, AngelinaMaria said:

I didn't believe any of Abby's act.  The entire innocent act was just a big put on.  She came off as very manipulative.  Definitely a "victim" of her circumstances but you could see that she knew right from wrong and enjoyed the ride.  Not sure why more people didn't see through her act (the sheriff and the lady that took her in for starters).

I agree with you regarding Abby. I think she is a user. Now she is 25, has been out of jail for 4 years, and is pregnant with a man that she is still with and met at work. Why are they moving in with her aunt? At this point she and her boyfriend should be taking care of themselves, not relying on yet another person to provide for her. She appears to have inherited more of her father's traits than her mother's.

[Kelly]

I thought Abby had a very strange affect. I just got a "not quite right" vibe from her.

[Melina22]

7 minutes ago, Kelly said:

thought Abby had a very strange affect. I just got a "not quite right" vibe from her.

Agreed. Sometimes she appeared open and honest. Other times she reacted strangely to things, like questions about the bank robberies. You couldn't put your finger on it, but as you say, something felt off. 

[psychoticstate]

The Skylar Neese case never fails to break my heart.  I hope Sheila and Rachel take their last breaths behind bars.  Neither deserves parole.  They are both evil to the core without an ounce of remorse.  Screw them. 

[Melina22]

Just watched The Affair. It disturbs me that for once I can identify with the murderer. I know exactly how she felt. I mean obviously, I don't condone what she did, but I feel like she was suffering from a kind of temporary insanity. Tragic story. 

[mellowjoi]

The Affair - Mark is surely a marketing expert.  He put a spin on his story to absolve himself of any wrongdoing.  He blames this whole nightmare on his wife, who he was cheating on.  I agree, what his wife did was wrong but he initiated the death of both his wife and girlfriend by starting the affair.  

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, mellowjoi said:

The Affair - Mark is surely a marketing expert.  He put a spin on his story to absolve himself of any wrongdoing.  He blames this whole nightmare on his wife, who he was cheating on.  I agree, what his wife did was wrong but he initiated the death of both his wife and girlfriend by starting the affair.  

Except, it was even worse because he tried to play “nice guy” about it and say he forgave her for part of what she did. IMO, the wife was the most at fault because she’s the one who  went so far as to kill, but the husband was a coward. He needed to own his shit and end the marriage completely immediately. Also, I don’t buy at all that he and the new GF were SO much in love after a month. They were infatuated, sure, but I guarantee that was going to run it’s course pretty quickly. But, the fact of the matter is that if they were both so easily swayed away from their marriages they shouldn’t have been married anymore regardless of how long their affair was going to last.  My motto is if you’re not happy, don’t stay married. It doesn’t benefit anyone. 

[sadie]

Sorry but what a piece of crap this Mark guy is. When he said his wife never told him he was wonderful or whatever he was trying to sell I just rolled my eyes. I’m sorry but this woman married him, and 16 years in she NEVER expressed that she thought he was amazing or wonderful or whatever. Sure dude. It was infatuation, he saw a young piece and wanted to sleep with her and then all hell broke loose. I don’t condone at all what his wife did, but I get it. If he was soooooo unhappy then tell you’re wife, leave her and THEN chase some young girl. And I’m sorry but you don’t ask a married man out for a drink or whatever, you tell him if he wants you then leave his wife and let you know. Oh yea, she was married too.  Blech. Sad story that didn’t need to happen. To me this falls squarely on Mark setting a horrific chain of events in motion. 

[Melina22]

Also, after a short infatuation with his married girlfriend, he and his wife go to marriage counseling. Her to save her marriage, which was clearly the centre of her life, and him... reading between the lines, he wanted the marriage counselor to help facilitate the divorce. 

I've been there and it's a horrible, powerless feeling. It can definitely make a normal person act crazy, although fortunately it doesn't usually end in murder-suicide. 

Even now, he says his mistake was not being more understanding in helping her to accept that he was moving on with someone else, leaving her behind. Has it not occurred to him that discarding her like that was just wrong? That her happiness mattered too? Or is that now considered a hopelessly outdated concept? 

I should never watch shows about this subject. I get too personally involved. 😕

[arejay]

My best friend's daughter was a professor at UD during this time period. I'll ask her what was the campus scuttlebutt at the time.  The wife was likely the BIG bad wolf from their position, but I wonder if seeing Mark feeling sorry for himself might change their opinions at all.

[atlantaloves]

Sadie, I'm with you girlfriend....I wanted to bitch slap that smug smile right off his ugly face.  He was a total jerk.  She should have offed him as well. Yeah, I said it. 

[sadie]

9 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Sadie, I'm with you girlfriend....I wanted to bitch slap that smug smile right off his ugly face.  He was a total jerk.  She should have offed him as well. Yeah, I said it. 

Atlantaloves, You can come sit by me. 

[LisainCali]

RE: The Affair. 

Really disturbing story.  That jerk husband mentioned she had lost her job and was having trouble finding another one.  Good time to start an affair, Bub.

i found the cheesy background singer completely distracting and annoying.  

[pinguina]

Of course the murder that the wife committed is wrong BUT her husband's affair was the catalyst.  He should have never started something especially since he said that his wife seemed fragile because she could not find a job.  His affair was the final straw that broke his wife.  Going to a marriage counselor - she thought they were both going to repair their marriage, he had an ulterior motive - to get help to divorce her.

 And I don't like when it seems that the people around the two people committing adultery seem to justify the "relationship" - "Oh, you could see the sparks." "They had so much in common." "There was definite chemistry between them."  

[lb60]

I really hope Mark is able to process this tragedy (that he set in motion) by writing a freakin' book!

Asshole!

That music was horrific.

It was nice to briefly see my local ABC anchor, Jim Gardner. However, I have no recollection of this story. And I watch a ton of news. I swear my brain is mush.

[LittleIggy]

The Affair: The husband did indeed break his wife. If Jennair (did her parents name her after an oven?) was going to kill anybody, it should have been him. Meredith was stupid for having an affair with a subordinate. Guess Villanova didn’t know about that when they hired her. Hope nobody buys Mark’s book.

[UsernameFatigue]

Since there were no posts about "The Affair" on here last night I went on 20/20 Facebook page to see what people were posting. Apparently Jennair (horrible name!) had suffered from depression for years. And according to Mark was diagnosed with PTSD over the end of their marriage. I don't think either of these things were brought up on the 20/20 episode? Way to handle your already vulnerable wife, Mark. 

I also doubt that this was the first affair for either Mark or Meredith. The moved way too quickly, and had no respect for their vows or their spouses. It is too bad that Jennair thought taking her own and Meredith's lives would leave Mark unhappy for the rest of his. I would be very surprised if he hasn't already moved on with someone else. Though he apparently identifies himself as a widow, which is pretty sick considering that the murders happened because he couldn't wait to leave his wife for his mistress. 

[Whimsy]

I know I’m a terrible person, but I don’t feel badly for anyone one of the three in this story. I don’t think anyone should stay in a marriage if they’re really unhappy- even if the other person has a mental illness or other issues. I’m not forgiving Mark at all, though he was a piece of shit who was a coward and couldn’t do the adult thing and just tell Jennar (whatever) that the marriage was over. I have zero sympathy for Meredith as well, who not only started a relationship with her subordinate but who was also married. I’m a true believer in ending the relationship you’re in fully before starting a new one. 

[Melina22]

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I know I’m a terrible person, but I don’t feel badly for anyone one of the three in this story. I don’t think anyone should stay in a marriage if they’re really unhappy-

I understand your point of view. I guess what bothers me is that I don't think Jennair and her husband were particularly unhappy. They had their issues like all couples do, but every long time successful couple I've ever met has problems and bad times when they want to quit. But they work through the problems and frequently end up happier than ever. 

I really think Mark was more bored than unhappy. Almost every man I know who has done what Mark did eventually regrets it, once the shine wears off the new, exciting relationship. But sadly, by then, it's too late and irreparable damage has been done to various mates and children. 

I'm probably biased though after living through a similar scenario, after 25 years of marriage with multiple children involved. 20 years later we're still all living with the fallout of 2 people's need "to be happy", one of the 2 being a married "friend" of ours. (FYI. They're still together and now hate each other.) After 9 horrendous years I found peace and happiness again, but I wouldn't relive it for anything. I wish Jennair could have found the support to hang on longer to reach happiness again. As I said, it's all so tragic. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Melina22

[tobeannounced]

12 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I also doubt that this was the first affair for either Mark or Meredith. The moved way too quickly, and had no respect for their vows or their spouses. It is too bad that Jennair thought taking her own and Meredith's lives would leave Mark unhappy for the rest of his. I would be very surprised if he hasn't already moved on with someone else. Though he apparently identifies himself as a widow, which is pretty sick considering that the murders happened because he couldn't wait to leave his wife for his mistress. 

I was so wishing they would have asked Mark this question.

And what kind of narcissist sets this train wreck in motion and then shamelessly appears on a national TV show to hawk his impending book? And what the hell is a writing coach or whoever that lady was? Is that the new term for "ghost writer"? Seems like they were just trying to generate publisher interest. Yuck.

[nutella fitzgerald]

Why would anyone want to read the memoirs of a man who couldn’t keep it in his pants or do it skillfully enough to not get caught? Can I sell a book about how I consistently drive over the speed limit and sometimes get pulled over?

[LittleIggy]

11 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

I was so wishing they would have asked Mark this question.

And what kind of narcissist sets this train wreck in motion and then shamelessly appears on a national TV show to hawk his impending book? And what the hell is a writing coach or whoever that lady was? Is that the new term for "ghost writer"? Seems like they were just trying to generate publisher interest. Yuck.

Mark apparently has no friends so they had to have someone he pays to be on the show and act sympathetic to him. 🙄

[jabinlbc]

The only good thing I can say about Mark is that he did not kill Jennair to get out of the marriage and avoid paying alimony  That is all.