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7 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I have this episode recorded (haven't watched it yet), but remember a really good Barbara Walters interview with Kimberly from about five years ago. If you have the ID Channel on your cable line up, you can watch the episode on ID's site. 

YouTube has an excerpt:

That interview is very interesting, and contradicts in some ways what Kimberly said (or was said about her) in the episode. In the episode it is said (and I think she said as well) that the reason she left her bio family was because Regina was so smothering. In the interview above Kimberly blames her siblings, and says that other than her oldest sister she did not get along with the others because they blamed her for their mother being obsessed about the switch.

I thought in the episode they said that Kimberly has 4 children? Here she says (or Barbara points out) that she has 6 children by 4 different men, and has been married twice. This interview also talks about how she was irresponsible with the money that was awarded due to the switch, and blew through it causing her to strip among other things. I wondered in the episode why she was struggling financially when each family was awarded 6 million dollars. I am sure some went to lawyers but I found it hard to believe that she would not have received some of the money personally, which it turns out she did.

Not to be mean, but I am not sure that all of Kimberly's problems have to do with the switch, and how she was raised, rather that just who she is as a person. 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I wondered in the episode why she was struggling financially when each family was awarded 6 million dollars.

I read elsewhere that she sold her settlement off to some "structured settlement" place and won't receive any more money until she turns 70.

The tragedy of Kim Mays is that she's an unreliable narrator of her own life. She loved Regina Twiggs. She didn't love Regina Twiggs. She loved her dad. She hated her dad. I think the adults in this story behaved horribly and they should have gotten her some serious counseling when she was going through all of this but they didn't and here we are. 

The 20/20 episode focused more on the switch at the hospital than it did on Kimberly herself. While I believe the deathbed confession of the aid, there are still too many holes in the story to believe that Kimberly's mother's (the one who took her home from the hospital) family paid off the doctor to switch the kids. It makes no sense to me that a mother would want any other child other than her own -- no matter how gravely ill it was. 

The author with the bad plastic surgery face spoke in a library voice that was beyond irritating. 

Also, Regina Twiggs needs to give up on the singing career -- at least the singing-in-public aspect of it. I was mortified for her listening to her "sing" that terrible song she wrote.

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4 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Not to be mean, but I am not sure that all of Kimberly's problems have to do with the switch, and how she was raised, rather that just who she is as a person. 

The problem is there is no way to really know. She had the same genes as her biological brothers and sisters. It appears they were all treated fairly equally, so it seems reasonable to think she would have been parented the way they were had she been raised in that family. But no way to know that for sure either. 

This is a girl who was removed from her biological mother a few days after birth, then her adoptive mother dies when she is two, and a new woman steps in and she is told this woman is her biological mother, then this woman is eventually replaced with a third step-mother.  At some point during this, she learns she may not be biologically related to her father, and then is thrust into a court case with national attention. 

Leaving out the issue of whether or not her father was physically and/or mentally abusive to her, just those basic facts of her life would cause most people to have some eventual struggles. If she was also abused by her father, and possibly strongly manipulated by him wrt the Twiggs... then that adds even more baggage. 

At a minimum, there was severe dysfunction and disruption in her primary attachments as a baby and young child... an age when those things have the strongest impact.  I am sure it was very difficult for her to get her bearings when she started spending time with her biological family. To go from being an only child with a series of three mothers/step-mothers to being with an intact family and all of these siblings, when you are middle-school age....would be tough. Especially if the dad she grew up with was opposed to her being with them. 

Just based on the little I learned about the story from this episode, I'm not surprised that her adult life has been unstable. Hopefully she will be able to get on track.

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12 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Leaving out the issue of whether or not her father was physically and/or mentally abusive to her, just those basic facts of her life would cause most people to have some eventual struggles. If she was also abused by her father, and possibly strongly manipulated by him wrt the Twiggs... then that adds even more baggage. 

At a minimum, there was severe dysfunction and disruption in her primary attachments as a baby and young child... an age when those things have the strongest impact. 

100%^^^this! I watched this twice this weekend and I was surprised how skewed it was towards the Twiggs.  So much footage from 1993 and not a lot of new stuff.  I do not buy for one minute that Barbara Mays was involved in switching her own baby.  Bob Mays died in 2012 and to put forth this show with no one here to defend him felt wrong.  He was no saint but neither was Regina.  In earlier interviews Kim has said the siblings felt resentful her as Mom was hyperfocused on her.  "You can call us Mom and Dad Twigg!"  How about Regina and Ernest?  

How about Bob Mays says:  "Okay, let's have a plan - Kim turns 18 and then she can figure it out with A LOT of professional help?"  

I agree with the poster who said Kim needs to make up her mind:  she loves her dad, she hates her dad, she loves the Twiggs, she hates the Twiggs.

I fully expected one of the Twiggs to have a producer credit, so much was about the Twigg family, Arlena's childhood and their side of the story.  I also expected Regina to whip out a copy of her new CD available on Amazon TODAY!  And sorry, that was not singing, I would call it warbling.

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I fully expected one of the Twiggs to have a producer credit, so much was about the Twigg family

Now that you mention it, yes, this episode was an embarrassing love letter to Regina Twigg -- whose very tragic life story was featured while Barbara Mays was reduced to some one-sentence caricature of the "daughter of the wealthy family" and Bob Mays was portrayed as an abusive sadist. I guess Ernest Twigg didn't have a sob story to tell so he was left to the sidelines. 

This is what I hate about the modern-day 20/20. It's evident that they pick a hero and villain in every story and leave no room for nuance. I swear I've been harping on this for more than a decade, but when Elizabeth Vargas interviewed the murderer of Matthew Shepard and decided to portray the MURDERER as the victim in all of this (complete with sad music over his interview about his terrible life) I'd had it with this show. It really is garbage. 

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3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Now that you mention it, yes, this episode was an embarrassing love letter to Regina Twigg -- whose very tragic life story was featured while Barbara Mays was reduced to some one-sentence caricature of the "daughter of the wealthy family" and Bob Mays was portrayed as an abusive sadist. I guess Ernest Twigg didn't have a sob story to tell so he was left to the sidelines. 

This is what I hate about the modern-day 20/20. It's evident that they pick a hero and villain in every story and leave no room for nuance. I swear I've been harping on this for more than a decade, but when Elizabeth Vargas interviewed the murderer of Matthew Shepard and decided to portray the MURDERER as the victim in all of this (complete with sad music over his interview about his terrible life) I'd had it with this show. It really is garbage. 

Did you see the 20/20 on Jennair, the woman who killed her hubby's mistress and then took her own life @Giant Misfit?  Her louse of a husband was portrayed as a victim when he was cheating on her WITH HIS YOUNGER FEMALE BOSS.  It happened a year ago but yet there he was, basking in the attention and oh yes.....he is peddling a book.  

Look, the whole Kim Mays story was hard on everyone.  Because Regina had a tough childhood, does that mean she gets to pluck a 12 year old from the only family she has known?  They wanted custody?  Weekends, holidays, six weeks in the summer?  Bob Mays did not divorce you, Regina.  The fact that Kim has six kids by four dads is beyond telling.  No judgements, I just feel for her.  

Edited to add that I don't care that the boss was younger, it just sorta fit with his mid life crisis he was having.  He could have been sleeping with his 60 year old boss and it would have been gross either way.  Why is he bringing up all this stuff AGAIN?  Oh yeah.....money and fame and maybe sympathy.

Edited by Mrs. Hanson
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44 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Did you see the 20/20 on Jennair, the woman who killed her hubby's mistress and then took her own life @Giant Misfit?  Her louse of a husband was portrayed as a victim when he was cheating on her WITH HIS YOUNGER FEMALE BOSS.

Oh, yes...I sure did. It was a trash episode, too. What is it with this show trying to rehabilitate assholes? 

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18 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Oh, yes...I sure did. It was a trash episode, too. What is it with this show trying to rehabilitate assholes? 

Omg - I watched that one twice as I could not believe the nerve of all three of them!  Meredith was sleeping with an employee, Hubby was having an affair with a boss and Jennair came off, to me, as slightly sympathetic as she was, in my opinion because I am such an expert, as very unhinged with reality.  Yes she was a murderer and that is a true fact but I truly think she snapped way before she shot Meredith,  Gross Hubby should be 100% grateful he was not there or he would be in a body bag as well.  But no, he is alive and well, driving his $90,000 BMW and peddling his story to look like a victim.  Ugh.  You are an adulterer and left your wife in a city where she had, seemingly, no one.  Sane people do not implant recording devices in clothing then record them in journals.  "When I met Meredith I felt a connection" - oh please when will men come up with a new line??

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Re the Kimberly Mays story, I would be really curious to know what the Mays thought when their ill child was suddenly healed. How was that explained to them? That's the part that makes me wonder if they were aware of the switch.

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11 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Re the Kimberly Mays story, I would be really curious to know what the Mays thought when their ill child was suddenly healed.

If you believe Regina, who while imperfect, didn't come off as a liar, the mother apparently reached out to her by phone. That's plausible, if she knew. As was the deathbed confession by the aide. Religious people will often want a clear conscience before they die. 

We'll never know for certain, but as I said, it's certainly plausible. 

As for Regina wanting visitation, speaking as the mother of 4 daughters, if there was a child out there who was my biological child, taken from me against my will, and she appeared to love spending time with us, I'd be so happy for her to spend time with us. I didn't sense any maliciousness behind her request. Watching the videos, you can't blame the family for thinking Kimberly was enjoying the contact. 

As for the siblings being jealous, that's also totally understandable. I don't doubt that Regina turned her grief over her lost daughters into an obsession in many ways. It happens in bereaved families all the time, and it's really hard on the surviving children. 

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One thing this case is a good example of is how unreliable the testimony of children can be. Not because they are deliberate liars, but because they are often frightened, manipulated, trying to please others, or otherwise psychologically distressed. 

On the stand and in her interview with Barbara Walters, Kimberly came off as very credible in her statements about her dad, stepmom, and her disinterest in the Twiggs. A month later she was wanting to be with them and pretty much recanted and reversed everything she had said. 

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I always thought Bob Mays was in on the switch.  He put my BS meter into overdrive.  When the switch became public, he never seemed to show any interest in learning about his biological daughter, Arlena, except to ask where she was buried.

Kim grew up thinking her birthday was Nov. 29, but when she learned she'd been switched, she also learned her real birthday was Dec. 2.  She was told she could legally take back her Dec. 2 birthday, but she said she'd keep Nov. 29 in honor of Arlena.

Edited by Angeltoes
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19 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Not because they are deliberate liars, but because they are often frightened, manipulated, trying to please others, or otherwise psychologically distressed. 

This is SO true. I won't go into detail, but I remember a social worker visiting us when I was about 12, and asking me IN MY HOME if I was happy and if everything was fine. Of course I said yes. I didn't dare not to. Everything was NOT fine. It's an impossible dilemma for a child. 

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I wish Kim Mays had a better life.    I can't imagine finding out you were switched at birth, and then have a years long custody battle over you.   

I have read articles that claim the late father, Bob Mays was in on the switch.    I know his wife died not too long after, and I wonder if she was already ill?   I really wonder how a court can declare Bob Mays' wife (this woman was a step mother)  when he died could be declared Kim's mother by a court?   That makes zero sense, and as Kim Mays says, she doesn't have a mother.    It sounds like both families kept the settlement money for themselves, since Kim claims she was destitute, after spending her settlement.

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/11/kim-kimberly-mays-now-today/

Here's an ABC article about the switch, and the theory that some relatives had about why the switch happened.    The theory is that Mrs. Mays had been trying for years to have a baby, and had the baby with the heart issues.    And the Twiggs already had five children, so someone deliberately switched the hospital bracelets, and gave the healthy baby to the Mays, and the sick baby to the Twiggs.  

https://abcnews.go.com/US/kim-mays-biological-family-involved-switched-birth-scandal/story?id=67303922

The ABC article also says one reason Kim is broke is because years ago she sold her settlement to an annuity company, and won't have access to the remaining money until she turns 70.   This article said a nurse or aide said that the doctor did the switch, and the woman said nothing be cause she would have been fired, and lost her salary, and health insurance.    Since the doctor, and almost everyone else involved is dead now, we'll never know.    If the aide/nurse hadn't come forward because she was very ill, and couldn't stand keeping the secret any longer, then it would just be speculation.    It had to have been a deliberate switch, because the girls were born several days apart, and had ID bracelets (one born 29 November, and the other on 2 December.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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22 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I wish Kim Mays had a better life.    I can't imagine finding out you were switched at birth, and then have a years long custody battle over you.   

I have read articles that claim the late father, Bob Mays was in on the switch.    I know his wife died not too long after, and I wonder if she was already ill?   I really wonder how a court can declare Bob Mays' wife when he died could be declared Kim's mother by a court?   That makes zero sense, and as Kim Mays says, she doesn't have a mother.    It sounds like both families kept the settlement money for themselves, since Kim claims she was destitute, after spending her settlement.

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/11/kim-kimberly-mays-now-today/

The Barbara Mays did not get diagnosed with cancer until a year after Kimberly's birth.  I just can't believe any parent would switch their own baby.  I don't care if I birth out a baby with two heads and six legs, that is MY baby, dammit!!

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Good episode last night about Lou Pearlman. He was so much like Bernie Madoff, only with boy bands! 

How on earth do people get away with this stuff? I swear I couldn't run a stop sign without getting caught. How do you pretend to own an entire airline and get away with it? 

He fits the pattern of these charming evil geniuses in that at the end of his life, in prison, he appeared to feel exactly zero remorse, and was ready to do it all again. Fascinating and terrifying. No wonder many of his victims hardly know how to feel, after being gaslighted for so long. 

ETA Now I'm watching the YouTube movie mentioned in the show, The Boy Band Con. It's similar but actually a lot darker. 

Edited by Melina22
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I had never heard of Lou Pearlman until I watched this show last night. The boy band era was a a generation or two after my teenage years. Fascinating episode though. Though I knew of Backstreet Boys and NSYNC I had never heard of O Town. The part about Pearlman using a toy airplane to advertise for his non existent airline was amazing. These con people are really ingenious. 

I kept thinking that if a movie (rather than documentary) had been made of his life, the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman would have been perfect to play Pearlman - they looked a lot alike. I do love that someone Pearlman discovered is the one who has made a documentary about his con artist life. Karma. 

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Glad you posted @Melina22, cuz I was gonna delete this epsiode, since I pretty much hate NSYNC and Backstreet boys, but I watched based on your comment and found it fascinating. 

They kind of glossed over the implication that he was also a sexual predator. Did the youtube movie extrapolate on that @UsernameFatigue?

It never ceases to amaze me when brilliant people choose to use their brilliance for evil. 

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2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Glad you posted @Melina22, cuz I was gonna delete this epsiode, since I pretty much hate NSYNC and Backstreet boys, but I watched based on your comment and found it fascinating. 

They kind of glossed over the implication that he was also a sexual predator. Did the youtube movie extrapolate on that @UsernameFatigue?

It never ceases to amaze me when brilliant people choose to use their brilliance for evil. 

I only found out about the youtube movie during the episode, so haven't watched it. I will now though, even though I hate watching movies on my computer. I would suspect though given Melina22's comment about it being darker, that there is more about Pearlman preying on his discoveries. 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

They kind of glossed over the implication that he was also a sexual predator. Did the youtube movie extrapolate on that @UsernameFatigue?

The YouTube video addressed it a little more. Almost everyone said they just couldn't be certain what his actual deal was. He was very handsy, enough to make some of them uncomfortable, and yet no one interviewed could exactly pin anything on him. 

Aaron Carter was the only one who swore he wasn't creepy in that way, but to be fair, Aaron also came off as very damaged and fragile. I felt very bad for him.

Oh, and apparently Lou had cameras everywhere in his house that filmed EVERYTHING, including the girls in his girl band showering, which he thought was "fun" to show to the boys in his boy bands. 

So yeah, deeply creepy whatever his actual label was. He deserved to be in jail. 

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This Vanity Fair article lays out the case the Pearlman was, in fact, a sexual predator/pedophile. I was shocked that it wasn't referenced last night. Then again, it's 20/20, and I should probably be grateful they weren't trying to posthumously rehab this scumbag's image -- and maybe they were by omitting what a disgusting pig he really was.

ETA: The blimp story (that he saw the blimp outside his window and his life 'changed' in that instance) was bullshit. That wasn't his story -- it was someone else's. (It's in the VF article.) Yet another instance that 20/20 didn't even do the most basic of fact checking.

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6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I was surprised that so much of the 20/20 show was exactly like the YouTube movie. Same exact guests, excerpts from the same interviews. I'm surprised they were allowed to do that, although perhaps Lance Bass agreed to it with the understanding he could promote his YouTube movie during the segment. 

6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

This Vanity Fair article lays out the case the Pearlman was, in fact, a sexual predator/pedophile. 

After the details of the 2 shows I watched, this isn't the least bit difficult to believe. Every possible red flag was there - somehow he never got legally charged with it. Again, so glad he passed his final days in jail, whatever the charge. 

Sorry, I can't delete the first quote box. 

Edited by Melina22
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Did anyone watch the hour on Hustlers? What a bunch of nasty whores!  And was the "young" one supposed to be some kind of a lure because of her beauty?! I didn't see it. That being said, I hate the ENTIRE concept of women stripping for men. Men's clubs etc.  But what these bitches did should have landed them all in prison. And the old bag ringleader who they only showed photos of! WHOA. Those lips... They were not remorseful at all, what pieces of shit, so much so that I am unbelievably siding with the gross men. And how did the club get away with it? Corruption and a pay off I assume. They have to bring loads of money into the neighborhood. What a sick world. 

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7 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I saw it before, and was disgusted that it is now a movie that pretty much glamorizes them into J-Lo heroines to root for. 

And I friggin hate J-Lo. She does make a believable ho though.

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8 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I saw it before, and was disgusted that it is now a movie that pretty much glamorizes them into J-Lo heroines to root for. 

Agreed. I watched the first couple of minutes, then opted not to watch it at all. That seems like a weird choice considering the show is almost always about predators and psychopaths who hurt others without remorse, but at least usually we're supposed to side with the victims. This time we're apparently supposed to think the predators are glamourous and cool because... they're women? Or because their victims are creepy adulterers? Yuck.

The first woman's total lack of remorse was chilling. That was enough for me. 

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I skimmed it. I don't appreciate how 20/20 is taking some of these criminals and sanitizing them or glamorizing them. They brought the hammer down on Jim, but kind of let Tammy off the hook. That woman was his right hand in stealing ungodly amounts of money from so many victims. Even after they got busted, she just kept singing her stupid songs and begging for more money. I'm sorry but cancer and heavy mascara do not excuse you from your crimes. 

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On 12/21/2019 at 8:36 AM, msrachelj said:

Anyone watch the show on Jim & Tammy Fay?

My dvr has stopped picking these up.  Can anyone point me to where I can catch a replay?  Thanks. 

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22 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

My dvr has stopped picking these up.  Can anyone point me to where I can catch a replay?  Thanks. 

The full episode is on the ABC News website here.

My DVR didn't pick this up either but only because it was a rerun.  

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On 12/1/2019 at 2:14 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

That interview is very interesting, and contradicts in some ways what Kimberly said (or was said about her) in the episode. In the episode it is said (and I think she said as well) that the reason she left her bio family was because Regina was so smothering. In the interview above Kimberly blames her siblings, and says that other than her oldest sister she did not get along with the others because they blamed her for their mother being obsessed about the switch.

I thought in the episode they said that Kimberly has 4 children? Here she says (or Barbara points out) that she has 6 children by 4 different men, and has been married twice. This interview also talks about how she was irresponsible with the money that was awarded due to the switch, and blew through it causing her to strip among other things. I wondered in the episode why she was struggling financially when each family was awarded 6 million dollars. I am sure some went to lawyers but I found it hard to believe that she would not have received some of the money personally, which it turns out she did.

Not to be mean, but I am not sure that all of Kimberly's problems have to do with the switch, and how she was raised, rather that just who she is as a person. 

I remember this story well from back when it happened. We're around the same age so my girlfriends and I were glued to the TV at the time that the court case was unfolding. It's weird because for 20 years I was totally convinced that Bob Mays was the right person to be raising her. I HATED the Twiggs, especially the mother. Bob, on the other hand, appeared loving and thinking only of Kimberly's well being. I remember being enraged that the Twiggs' attorney refused to call her "Kimberly" at the trial and what a clusterfuck that was. It's crazy to me now that she's saying such bad things about him. I can't wrap my head around it because I went for so long feeling that she was in better hands with the Mays. I think there truly may have been something unstable in Kimberly to begin with and that the events that unfolded fucked with her mind just enough to send her over the edge. I don't think it was necessarily how she was raised or who she was raised with-I think it was the situation as a whole combined with someone who may have had a personality disorder or mental illness from the start. Regardless, it's sad. 

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Aaaagh! I'm watching Trapped. It's overwhelmingly horrifying but I've been hanging in for the "happy ending" so to speak. And just as it's in sight, it turns out that one of the girls mothers, who's shown crying constantly over the years, finally gave up hope and then died BEFORE finding out her beloved daughter was alive. It's just unbearably awful. 😔😔😔😔😔

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We caught a bit of that earlier. Jesus, the stuff about the ways he tried to abort the pregnancies. Dear lord. Those poor women. He truly is the definition of evil. 

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I'm almost done. Yikes, this was the most gruelling watch to date. But I had nonstop goosebumps during the depiction of their escape. Even the police were tearing up just remembering it. It was good to see actual footage of the rescue. 

I'm confused though. I could swear I saw, in one of the reunion pictures, the mother who I thought died. Anyone know the answer? 

It goes without saying that all 3 girls have severe PTSD. But what bizarre memories the little girl must have! Is she the basis for the movie Room? 

ETA I finally got through it. What an upbeat ending! Now I feel bad about complaining about my life. You know, my PVR malfunctioned, or the power was out for 15 minutes. Tragic stuff like that. 😁 (My diamond shoes are too tight) 

Edited by Melina22
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I remember when those women in Trapped were found. I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch their story, but I did and it was gripping. I wondered how the little girl born there could grow up normally now, given all the SM bullying and so forth given to kids who don't have a father or back story like she does. But we were told all is fine and dandy with her. I hope so.

I also wondered what happened to the son of the first woman captured. He was never mentioned again, after we were told he was taken away by Family Services before she was kidnapped.

It's amazing that family and friends kept up their search for those 10 years. And good on those women for being able to tell their stories. I wish them all the best.

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9 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I remember when those women in Trapped were found. I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch their story, but I did and it was gripping. I wondered how the little girl born there could grow up normally now, given all the SM bullying and so forth given to kids who don't have a father or back story like she does. But we were told all is fine and dandy with her. I hope so.

I also wondered what happened to the son of the first woman captured. He was never mentioned again, after we were told he was taken away by Family Services before she was kidnapped.

It's amazing that family and friends kept up their search for those 10 years. And good on those women for being able to tell their stories. I wish them all the best.

Michelle Knight has given several interviews in which she was asked about her son.  He was adopted, doesn’t know at this point who she is, but she gets photos and updates of him.  Here’s one of the articles.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620326/You-break-broken-House-horrors-survivor-Michelle-Knight-explains-pain-felt-captor-Ariel-Castro-forced-5-miscarriages-beatings-moment-realized-finally-free.html

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On 1/3/2020 at 10:42 PM, Melina22 said:

 

I'm almost done. Yikes, this was the most gruelling watch to date. But I had nonstop goosebumps during the depiction of their escape. Even the police were tearing up just remembering it. It was good to see actual footage of the rescue. 

I'm confused though. I could swear I saw, in one of the reunion pictures, the mother who I thought died. Anyone know the answer? 

It goes without saying that all 3 girls have severe PTSD. But what bizarre memories the little girl must have! Is she the basis for the movie Room? 

ETA I finally got through it. What an upbeat ending! Now I feel bad about complaining about my life. You know, my PVR malfunctioned, or the power was out for 15 minutes. Tragic stuff like that. 😁 (My diamond shoes are too tight) 

I thought the same thing RE the mother but according to google she died in 2006, poor woman. It must have been horrifying to watch that Sylvia Brown interview. Perhaps it was an aunt in the photo? This was a tough watch but I wish all these ladies and the little girl the best. I couldn't imagine the burden those women and that innocent child must carry.

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I am really shocked to see pictures of Amanda's daughter.  I live in Cleveland & I don't think I have ever seen a picture of Jocelyn.

Edited by Kroliosis
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Anyone else see the Pam Smart episode last night? I see that even after 30 years she's still refusing to accept responsibility for his murder. She is a stone-cold sociopath. After all this time, she still has that dead-behind-the-eyes look.

Of course, 20/20 tries YET AGAIN to rehabilitate the image of a criminal by implying that other women murderers were released from prison for identical crimes and that maybe it's time for Smart to be released, too. 

ETA: One of those women they mentioned was Carolyn Warmus -- someone I hadn't thought about in forever. I googled her and immediately remembered that crime and OMG she was a PSYCHO, too. She never admitted to killing her boyfriend's wife and somehow wound up on paroled out of prison?! I guess it pays that she's an heiress. 

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14 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Anyone else see the Pam Smart episode last night? I see that even after 30 years she's still refusing to accept responsibility for his murder. She is a stone-cold sociopath. After all this time, she still has that dead-behind-the-eyes look.

Of course, 20/20 tries YET AGAIN to rehabilitate the image of a criminal by implying that other women murderers were released from prison for identical crimes and that maybe it's time for Smart to be released, too. 

ETA: One of those women they mentioned was Carolyn Warmus -- someone I hadn't thought about in forever. I googled her and immediately remembered that crime and OMG she was a PSYCHO, too. She never admitted to killing her boyfriend's wife and somehow wound up on paroled out of prison?! I guess it pays that she's an heiress. 

Not sure what show it was (mabye Dateline??), but didn't another show JUST air an update on Pam Smart?  I didn't watch this because I feel like there can't possibly be anything new since I saw that, easily within the last 6-months or so.  Pamela still wasn't taking any responsibility then, either. 

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36 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

but didn't another show JUST air an update on Pam Smart? 

There was an HBO documentary made ... last year? Year before? It was called Captivated and it focused, quite rightly, on the media overkill of this case - particularly in New Hampshire. That's all I can think of! I'd like to say I'd watch another show about this case but...I think I've had enough of listening to all the delusions she can spew through her lips that don't exist. 

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On 1/3/2020 at 10:42 PM, Melina22 said:

 

I'm almost done. Yikes, this was the most gruelling watch to date. But I had nonstop goosebumps during the depiction of their escape. Even the police were tearing up just remembering it. It was good to see actual footage of the rescue. 

I'm confused though. I could swear I saw, in one of the reunion pictures, the mother who I thought died. Anyone know the answer? 

It goes without saying that all 3 girls have severe PTSD. But what bizarre memories the little girl must have! Is she the basis for the movie Room? 

ETA I finally got through it. What an upbeat ending! Now I feel bad about complaining about my life. You know, my PVR malfunctioned, or the power was out for 15 minutes. Tragic stuff like that. 😁 (My diamond shoes are too tight) 

I've heard that Room was based on the Fritzl Case in Austria. 

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I'm struggling to get through this Pam Smart episode. It's annoying that they're trying to redeem her and blame Greg for hismurder. Here's an idea, get a damn divorce when your husband has an affair. Quit murdering people. 

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Also, I find it interesting that she always says "my husband" or "husband" when referring to him. She's delusional. 

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4 hours ago, Court said:

It's annoying that they're trying to redeem her

That's always the 20/20 angle: find the most irredeemable person ever and try to make everyone feel sorry for them. 

It doesn't work for me. And I hope it doesn't work for anyone else. 

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I'm watching Overboard. It's absolutely horrifying that people who appear so normal and friendly can be so evil. The last hours of the Hawks lives must have been so terrible. 

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I can watch most murders on Dateline, 48 Hours, or 20/20 with no major problems.  I fall asleep watching Forensic Files most nights. But there is something about the Hawks murders that terrifies me in a way no other murder does.  I'm not sure if it is the drowning. I'm not sure if it is the "child star" with his pregnant wife and little girl.  This is just one of the most horrifying / terrifying murders I've heard reported. 

Edited by Lisa418722
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19 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

I'm not sure if it is the "child star" with his pregnant wife and little girl.  This is just one of the most horrifying / terrifying murders I've heard reported. 

I agree. I think the part that's so fiendish is that the Hawks knew something was off, and were going to unwittingly save their lives by walking away, but then the adorable pregnant mother and baby showed up. I can picture the Hawks thinking "These people must be legit. Only horrible monsters would use their baby as a ploy", not realizing they WERE horrible monsters. It's like a horror movie plot where you're yelling "No! They're evil! Don't go with them!" 

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41 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Given how hard this episode hit us, as viewers who didn't actually know anyone involved, I can only imagine how people who knew the family must feel. 

So is Skylar on death row? It was impossible to tell from the show. And what about his wife? I can see myself reading a book about this case. It's so baffling and complicated. How did these 2 become so incredibly evil? 

Skylar and the accomplice, John F Kennedy (!) are no longer on death row because the Governor of California took the death penalty off the table. It was mentioned at the very end of the show. As if I weren’t pissed off enough about Skylar getting gender reassignment surgery paid for by tax dollars!

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6 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

Skylar and the accomplice, John F Kennedy (!) are no longer on death row because the Governor of California took the death penalty off the table. It was mentioned at the very end of the show. As if I weren’t pissed off enough about Skylar getting gender reassignment surgery paid for by tax dollars!

So far, the State has refused the surgery as "medically unnecessary".

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