S05.E05: All Doll'd Up

[Trini]

Quote

Nora lets something slip about the future that devastates Iris. In an attempt to distract his wife, Barry asks Iris to team up to stop a new meta, Rag Doll (guest star Troy James). Meanwhile, Caitlin learns something about her father.

Phil Chipera directed the episode written by Thomas Pound & Sterling Gates.

Airdate 11/13/2018.

[scarynikki12]

Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned.

[Trini]

Preview clip:

[lovebug871]

Not cool Flash!  Creepy clown man is going to give me nightmares.

[miasth]

This episode had some really nice Barry & Iris moments.  It was just too bad that it was dampened the Nora and Iris issues.  Barry looked very angry when Nora went off on Iris and I was expecting him to say something, but I thought he would have been a bit more harsh than he was.     

I have not felt that Nora was as immature as many people thought until tonight. She came across extremely childish whining to Cecile about Iris.  I am glad that Cecile checked her on it, but after Cecile's reaction at the ball game last week, it just seemed like a complete 180.

I still do not care about Caitlin's search for her father, but I can tolerate it as long as we keep getting the great Caitlin/Cisco scenes.  Sherloque still does not fit.  Even with his detective skills, he just seems forced.

Iris jumped off a building to save Barry; no hesitation. I did not think I could become a bigger fan of her character, but Iris West-Allen is awesome.

Well it seems that Nora is finally willing to give  Iris a chance. Barry peeping around the corner at the end was so cute.  Future Iris did not even want to talk about herself with Nora. It suggests that Iris had a huge personality shift in the future and that is concerning.  However, Iris should not have taken responsibility for her actions in the future. It is good that Barry reminded her that she can make different choices and told Nora she needs to see Iris for who she is now.   

Rag doll was extremely creepy.  Not the best episode to watch before bedtime.

Edited November 14, 2018 by miasth

[cambridgeguy]

Given how creepy Ragdoll was it seemed kind of odd for Ralph to beat him mostly off screen and as part of a joke.  Of course a master contortionist doesn't really stand a chance against Barry, or Iris with a gun, or many other characters, in a straight up fight, so there wasn't much of a way to drag that out. 

Wasn't Iris originally in grad school for something that didn't involve her becoming the Lois Lane of Central City?  It seems like a bit of a retcon to suddenly give her a lifelong passion for reporting and investigating.  Although maybe all such inconsistencies can be explained by Flashpoint.

Edited November 14, 2018 by cambridgeguy

[UNOSEZ]

" I gave him a wing to play in"...  Real talk that's up there with the snobbiest shit I've ever heard.. I was laughing so hard... Rag doll was super creepy... Glad Cecile checked Nora... Caitlin( who I've always enjoyed even with her problematic writing)  was great with cisco.. How the show gains managed to not be able to have CP and DP do good scenes together is a travesty... Ralph and Sherloque were bleh... As always Iris and Barry were golden

[tennisgurl]

Iris straight up jumped off a building to save Barry! That was so freaking awesome! No wonder Nora was instantly charmed by her mom. 

I liked this episode a lot, especially all of the Barry/Iris moments. Barry wanting to turn them investigating Ragdoll into a date night, their dance together, they were just super sweet all episode long. They also both looked fabulous at the society ball! No matter what rich lady said about Barry's tux. Although, his affronted, embarrassed look was really endearing. I will never stop loving Iris running off guns a blazing to save her man. Barry might be the one with powers, but Iris will cut you if you mess with her husband! 

Ragdoll was definitely one of their creepiest villains to date. That guy was pure nightmare fuel! He was also a part of Secret Six, one of my favorite comic runs (well, it was Ragdoll 2) ever, so I was psyched to see him here in all his creepy, demon clown glory. When he was unwrapping himself behind Barry....brrrrrr. 

Cecile was in full on mom mode with Nora, which was great to see. Nora might have legit beef with older Iris being overprotective, but she must have had her reasons, and besides, its not fair to be so crappy to current Iris, who is so desperately try to reach out. Nora was acting like a child, so it was nice to see her getting schooled on who her mom really is, and that her family wont just take her bratty attitude. I liked them bonding at the end, and Barry's happy smile watching them together. 

I still dont care about Caitlin's search for her sure to be a supervillain dad, but I loved that we got some great Cisco/Caitlin friendship moments. Especially when Caitlin realized that Cisco had been in pain the whole time he was vibing to try and hep her, and she reassured him that he would always be a valuable team member and person, even with his powers on the fritz. It reminded me of a Caitlin that I really liked, before all of the Killer Frost/family/dating drama. 

 Sherloque is still pointless, but he does make me appreciate Ralph more, as I find him to be quite likable this season, especially compared to him. The visit to Professor Steins place lab made me sad. I miss Martin! I was surprised that we had so much continuity this episode in general, its like the writers binged the show over break and are just now breaking that knowledge out! Cisco talking about having to relive Thawne killing him over and over, the trip to Steins lab, etc. 

[bettername2come]

Iris jumping off a building was such an incredible show of faith in her and Barry. And they danced and the red dress. Great Westallen. 

All right, show, are we supposed to be making Cisco cry and talk about being murdered by Thawne in the alternate timeline? You know that makes me feel emotions. Also, if this is all because they're not gonna give him his powers due to budget cuts or something I'm going to be mad. But, thanks for reminding me why I love Cisco and Caitlin. They never screw their relationship up.

Cecile did a great job tricking Nora into loving Iris's stories. I keep liking Cecile more and more.

Doll was creepy. I liked Sherloque calling Ralph giraffe again.

Are they finally giving Jesse L Martin a week off to deal with his leg?

[jmonique]

I don't hate Nora, but I'd tolerate her antics a lot more if she were 16, rather than 26 or so. 

[Trini]

I mean, this episode was already going to be my favorite - THEN IRIS JUMPED OFF A BUILDING! But seriously, soooo many good things in this one!

Nora getting called out,
Mama Cecile,
Supportive husband Barry,
Iris' feelings and POV,
Iris/Nora reconciliation,
WestAllen date night/investigation,
even the Iris/Ralph team up!

Ragdoll was sufficiently creepy, and a memorable villain.

I hate Cisco getting nerfed, but at least they thought out a reason. They better fix it soon though; make Caitlin an expert surgeon as per usual.

This is only the second episode without Joe/Jesse L. Martin.

[Lantern7]

Well, Rag Doll was pretty creepy. Yeah, I kinda wish he was more like the Secret Six version Gail Simone created (creepy & hilariously perverse!!), but seeing someone move like that was jarring. And at least we got a cheerful episode this week. I mean, Cicada is still at large, and Cisco's hands are bleeding, but at least Nora has lightened up and Caitlin's story moves forward.

Iris jumped off the roof to save Barry. Wow. Did she think Ralph would save her, and that removing the cuffs would have been Plan B? I dunno . . . it feels like a bit much, but it worked out great. And now Nora can stop blaming Iris for stuff she hasn't done yet.

41 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Doll was creepy. I liked Sherloque calling Ralph giraffe again.

And Ralph called him "Shirley." They not going to be the Ray & Nate of Central City, but at least they're bonding. And good job by Caitlin for snapping Cisco out of his funk.

[Trini]

Troy James shared some BTS photos:

 

Also Phil LaMarr was the voice for Ragdoll:

[Lady Calypso]

This was a pretty great episode. Ragdoll was seriously creepy, one of the creepiest villains they've had. I even had to turn my head a couple of times due to the contortions freaking me out.

Iris was fantastic from beginning to end. It's so far and few in between where Iris gets to not just be part of the big plot, but get to use her reporter skills AND be a member of Team Flash at the same time! Plus, Barry was being a supportive husband again! This episode was about Iris' pain and about her feelings, and Barry was a supporting character to her! What a feat! Barry can be a supporting character for other characters, so it's nice to see it happen here for his wife. 

So, after Cecile's weird reaction last episode, she more than makes up for it here with reprimanding Nora trying to whine about her mother, and then getting taught a lesson about judgment. I wish we got an "I'm sorry, Mom" from Nora, but baby steps, I guess. 

Cisco/Caitlin/Ralph's plot was decent. After last season's mess with Killer Frost, I'm glad we're back to just Caitlin for now. Plus, I feel like they put Caitlin/Cisco's friendship on the backburner for a while now, so getting scenes with them is always welcome with me. Plus, Caitlin's family drama is probably the best work Danielle Panabaker's gotten since the Ronnie plot way back when. 

Ralph was pretty good in this episode and I enjoy his scenes with Iris. Sherloque was...useless, pointless, and not needed at all. 

[catrice2]

That was the creepiest person I've seen on this show so far. I might legitimately have a nightmare about that thing.

Barry and Iris' date scenes were great. I'm glad the show is starting to show more normal family type things.

I fast forward through so much. What is wrong with Cisco? Did they actually say where Joe was or did Cecile just mention when he gets back? I guess I never realized Nora was supposed to be in her twenties, it only makes me dislike her more.

I'm so not interested in the search for Caitlin father, but I must be a little tipsy because Ralph didn't annoy me but  Tom Cavanagh certainly does

[Trini]

I was hoping for a WestAllen dance, but I wasn't sure they'd actually give us one; they came through!

----

And like most good episodes, they connected the crime/villain-of-the-week to the protagonists' personal struggles. And again props to them taking scenes outside of STAR Labs. Keep it up, show!

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

And like most good episodes, they connected the crime/villain-of-the-week to the protagonists' personal struggles. And again props to them taking scenes outside of STAR Labs. Keep it up, show!

True...although also true to Arrowverse fashion, they reuse sets. The mansion that Barry/Iris went to is the location that Arrow's 100th episode took place in, I'm about 95% certain.

Still, for this show, having scenes outside of STAR Labs, the police station, Joe/Cecile's place or the same three warehouses they use is great.

[catrice2]

Sorry why did Ragdoll want to hurt Iris?

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I mean, this episode was already going to be my favorite - THEN IRIS JUMPED OFF A BUILDING! But seriously, soooo many good things in this one!

I know right? Who wrote this episode? It was crazy-fantastic. Westallen in formal wear slo-moing into the ballroom... LOL! How extra could you get? My goodness, it was like Iris was the female lead or something. There was so much of her, her relationships, her PoV, her profession, her bad-assery...

 

2 hours ago, miasth said:

I am glad that Cecile checked her on it, but after Cecile's reaction at the ball game last week, it just seemed like a complete 180.

I think we can all agree at this point that Cecile's attitude in the previous episode was purely to prop Caitlin/DP in Iris hate-baiting.

 

The episode did end on a sad note.... the omniscient satellites are back. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by ursula

[Trini]

5 minutes ago, ursula said:

The episode did end on a sad note.... the omniscient satellites are back. 

Sigh... It was good while it lasted.

 

23 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

What is wrong with Cisco?

He's got shards of Cicada's dagger embedded in his hands, so it's painful if he uses his powers, and causes seizures if he uses his powers more.

[Misslindsey]

1 hour ago, jmonique said:

I don't hate Nora, but I'd tolerate her antics a lot more if she were 16, rather than 26 or so. 

This. I am glad Cecile called Nora out on her behavior and that Nora and Iris are in a better place, but I am so over Nora already. The actress is fine, but I just find the character annoying. This must be my punishment for not minding Ralph last season. I do hope we get to see Iris' point of view in the future with the whole repressing Nora's powers bit, but with this show I am not counting on it.

[mxc90]

Theresa Merkel didn't seem to be that cold. She allowed uninvited Barry and Iris to crash/stay at her event (knowing they wouldn't make a donation) and still took time later to talk to Iris to determine her son's silly revenge motivation.

Cecile was saying some lines only Joe could deliver. It didn't seem right.

A large building came down and Barry didn't bother check for survivors?

[opus]

21 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Sorry why did Ragdoll want to hurt Iris?

I was wondering the same thing.

3 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

A large building came down and Barry didn't bother check for survivors?

Another thing I was wondering about. Huge building, and only that guy was in it?

[mxc90]

16 minutes ago, opus said:

I was wondering the same thing.

I think he wanted to hurt people who valued their possession or had deep connection. The jewelry was the guy's grandfather's (so he stole it), the building was designed by the architect (so he destroyed it) and Iris is in love with Barry ( kill him to hurt her). How he knew his victims is another question.

Edited November 14, 2018 by mxc90

[catrice2]

8 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

I think he wanted to hurt people who valued their possession or had deep connection. The jewelry was the guy's grandfather's (so he stole it), the building was designed by the architect (so he destroyed it) and Iris is in love with Barry ( kill him to hurt her).

Yes but I'm sure there are other wives that love their husband and their were other couples in love their  at the event. Why Target Barry and Iris? It just didn't make sense

[adora721]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

she reassured him that he would always be a valuable team member and person, even with his powers on the fritz.

If this is true, and it is, then why does Caitlin need to be KF again? Caitlin said that her dad knew who she really was, meaning KF. Is that why?  If yes, then I hope she's prepared to take full responsibility for all that KF did since KF is the real her.

Good episode.

[mxc90]

1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

Yes but I'm sure there are other wives that love their husband and their were other couples in love their  at the event. Why Target Barry and Iris? It just didn't make sense

It doesn't make sense but writers only have an hour to work with. They conveniently tossed Barry/Iris in to his plot.

[PhoneCop]

Dear Flash Foley artists: The next time Rag Doll shows up, we don't need to hear every stretching ligament and dislocated bone snapping back into place, thanks.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Wasn't Iris originally in grad school for something that didn't involve her becoming the Lois Lane of Central City?  It seems like a bit of a retcon to suddenly give her a lifelong passion for reporting and investigating.  Although maybe all such inconsistencies can be explained by Flashpoint.

I believe it was Criminal Psychology.

[twoods]

Rag doll is creepy as hell. I had to look away a lot, but will definitely be getting nightmares tonight. 

Nora was literally acting like a whiny brat in the beginning. Why are the writers making her act like a tween instead of a 26 year old? Hopefully she grows up after this episode. Go Cecile! 

Poor Cisco. I still love his friendship with Caitlin and am glad the writers have not forgotten about that. 

[Jediknight]

Ragdoll was creepy as Hades, should have been the villain before Halloween.

Cecile was excellent in this episode.  Good job calling out Nora.

Iris not even telling Nora about her past has me wondering just how far ARGUS took it.  We already know from last season on Legends, that ARGUS turned the country into a police state with metas.

Barry and Iris really are the most adorable Beeboverse couple.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jediknight

[Trini]

Deleted scene from the episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B7IwMEP7mA

[Not sure what the policy is for this, so putting my comments in a spoiler tag]

Spoiler

They let him keep his mask in prison??

And they're bringing back Weather Wizard, soon-ish? Before the holiday break, or after?

----------

Also I saw this pointed out elsewhere, but with Elongated Man's "Spiderman" scene, The Flash is the first comic book show to (inadvertently) pay tribute to the late Stan Lee.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, miasth said:

   I have not felt that Nora was as immature as many people thought until tonight. She came across extremely childish whining to Cecile about Iris.  I am glad that Cecile checked her on it, but after Cecile's reaction at the ball game last week, it just seemed like a complete 180.

[SNIP]

Rag doll was extremely creepy.  Not the best episode to watch before bedtime.

You have to remember that Nora has been staying there for 2 weeks now, all that time saying how awful Iris was, while at the same time sitting around all day on the couch, not helping out one bit. I think Joe was supposed to give the speech, but they let Cecile do it.

The actor that played Rag Doll was recently in the 6 episode TV Series "Channel Zero: The Dream Door", there is a lot less special effects added to the performance so that you get to see more of his natural abilities.

I think Rag Doll targeted Iris and Barry because he saw that they were working together to try and stop him. He might have been hanging around after each crime to witness how much pain the people were in after losing their prized possessions. He probably saw Iris and Barry at both crime scenes and now they are at his home.

[thuganomics85]

A contortionist clown, huh?  Well, that's one way to up the creep factor!  I think even the Legends would have been unnerved by Rag Doll (lucky him, actually, because it probably would have ended with Mick just burning him!)  But I wish they found a better way to explain why he ended up targeting Iris and Barry at the end, because I'm still confused by that.  And why did they delete that scene from above since it seems like that was a set up for bigger things?

Still, a great episode for Iris tonight.  Not only did she kick ass, takes names, and jump off a freaking roof for Barry, but all of that was finally enough for Nora to quit being a pouty jerk, and actually try to have a relationship with her.  Of course, I suspect this won't be the end over why Future Iris would end up doing what she did to Nora, and maybe it will all fall apart again, but I'm glad Nora is finally going to be more civil.  Now, if only she'd quit rushing into things head on and almost doing as much damage as she does saving...

Glad Cecile called out Nora too, although that really doesn't jive with how she was acting in the last episode.  Definitely suspect that maybe they had attended for it to be Joe during all of this, but Jesse L. Martin needs off for recovery.

The investigation into Caitlin's dad isn't exactly gripping stuff, but at least Cisco is back, and the show did remember how great those two are together.  Plus, Caitlin's dad is Kyle Secor a.k.a. Bayliss from Homicide: Life on the Street!

Sherloque continues to actually make Ralph tolerable, which is impressive in his own way, kind off.

[VCRTracking]

As much as it's a shame his back injury is keeping Jessie L. Martin out of the show for the time being, it was better that Cecile be the one to set Nora straight about the way she's treating Iris. It needed to be someone objective.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Yes but I'm sure there are other wives that love their husband and their were other couples in love their  at the event. Why Target Barry and Iris? It just didn't make sense

There wasn't much motivation for Rag Doll choosing Iris/Barry, but when they were talking outside of the mansion, he was creepily watching from the roof, so...maybe that's when he chose them as his targets? It still doesn't make much sense beyond "plot reasons".

6 hours ago, adora721 said:

If this is true, and it is, then why does Caitlin need to be KF again? Caitlin said that her dad knew who she really was, meaning KF. Is that why?  If yes, then I hope she's prepared to take full responsibility for all that KF did since KF is the real her.

Good episode.

Yeah, I wish that Caitlin/Cisco conversation was leading into Caitlin accepting that she wasn't going to get KF back and that all would be ok. As it is, I worry about KF's return.

It really WAS a nice conversation, though. I'm glad Caitlin set Cisco straight on his value to the team without his powers. He doesn't tend to use his powers all that much, anyway. At least not more than his engineering knowledge.

[Pepper the Cat]

How did Rag Doll know that Barry was the Flash?

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

How did Rag Doll know that Barry was the Flash?

I don't think he did?  His goal was to hurt Iris so who better to go after than her husband?  As for the cuffs, he may have just grabbed them because Barry left them out in the apartment.

[adora721]

One major nitpick would be Iris comparing herself to Francine. Francine actually, physically abandoned Iris and for a really awful (and cliched, stereotypical) reason. As far as Iris knew, her mother chose drug addiction over her; I'd be ticked at my mom if she did the same. Iris' "emotional abandonment", though no less hurtful, comes from the very genuine trauma of losing Barry (again) or dealing with a country now antagonistic to meta humans in the future. 

I've always believed that Francine's story should have been about not being able to deal with being a police officer's wife. It's a real issue with spouses of first responders and military personnel. You live in a constant state of fear of losing your partner. Some spouses can handle it while others can't.

Francine leaving Joe (after giving him an ultimatum to change his job) would have been a good tie in with Iris losing Barry both in S3 and in the future. Iris, too, is married to a man constantly putting himself in danger. Plus she lost Eddie to his heroic sacrifice in S1. They could have dealt with Iris' fear of loss and abandonment issue with the psychiatrist in S4. 

 Instead of doing a valid story line like that, the writers gave Francine the most stereotypical story that has been played out on screen for Black people since the beginning of modern entertainment. So, Iris comparing herself to her mother just doesn't ring true at all to me.

P.S. Iris and Cait spoke two lines of direct dialogue to each other; that's less than last week. Not good.

Edited November 16, 2018 by adora721

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

P.S. Iris and Cait spoke two lines of direct dialogue to each other; that's less than last week. Not good.

From the way the scene in Star Labs was framed (right before Ralph did his Spidey impression) the actresses could have filmed most of it separately, especially the part where Caitlin hands Iris the handcuff keys and Iris is telling Caitlin and Wells they need to come up with a plan.  It's pretty clear that they are doing their best to minimize any sort of direct interaction between the two.

[meira.hand]

14 hours ago, jmonique said:

I don't hate Nora, but I'd tolerate her antics a lot more if she were 16, rather than 26 or so. 

I find it so strange to see Jessica Parker Kennedy in his role. Apart from the fact that she 34 in real life, she played such a strong, mature and serious character for four seasons on Black Sails that watching her now revert to this annoyingly immature young woman is just weird. I guess is a sign of a good actor when without looking any different I can adore her in one role and be disgusted with her in another.

[DavidJSnyder]

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

You have to remember that Nora has been staying there for 2 weeks now, all that time saying how awful Iris was, while at the same time sitting around all day on the couch, not helping out one bit. I think Joe was supposed to give the speech, but they let Cecile do it.

The whole recalling Iris memories makes much sense for Joe and was probably rewritten to Cecile because of Jesse L Martin's back issues.

I don;t understand how they jumped from badges for Hudson University (do people at University's really wear badges now?)  to it being Professor Stein's office.  Then I don't understand why Professor Stein's office was just sitting there I guess unoccupied after all this time.

[adora721]

57 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

From the way the scene in Star Labs was framed (right before Ralph did his Spidey impression) the actresses could have filmed most of it separately, especially the part where Caitlin hands Iris the handcuff keys and Iris is telling Caitlin and Wells they need to come up with a plan.  It's pretty clear that they are doing their best to minimize any sort of direct interaction between the two.

I agree about them minimizing their direct interaction; it's so obvious. I was counting the lines when Iris said "Thank you" directly to Caitlin for the  handcuff keys and when Cait said directly to Iris, "You dove off a building!" I don't count group talks, which is what asking the team to come up with a plan was; DP had said that she didn't know how much of the Iris/Caitlin friendship we'd see because Iris wasn't going to be in Star Labs anymore and focusing on reporting, but that's not been the case. Even when in the lab or at the baseball game together, they minimize their interaction.

ETA: It's significant because they went out of their way in S4 to make these two more than "work friends". Additionally, it's a stark contrast to the genuine female friendships and interactions on "Supergirl", "Legends of Tomorrow", "Black Lightning", and even "Arrow" recently had an episode with significant positive interactions among Laurel, Felicity, and Dinah. I can't believe I'm giving "Arrow" a compliment :).

Edited November 14, 2018 by adora721

[quarks]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

True...although also true to Arrowverse fashion, they reuse sets. The mansion that Barry/Iris went to is the location that Arrow's 100th episode took place in, I'm about 95% certain.

Still, for this show, having scenes outside of STAR Labs, the police station, Joe/Cecile's place or the same three warehouses they use is great.

The exterior of that mansion was used for a Supergirl episode last year and the interiors were used for Arrow's 100th episode, a Legends of Tomorrow episode and two Supergirl episodes. Also, an earlier exterior scene was shot at the former Queen Mansion/Luthor Mansion (from Smallville days.) And turning off the lights for the let's explore an abandoned lab scene was not really all that effective at hiding yet another reused set, not to mention the reused props. 

I did like the special effects used for Ragdude and the extras all looked great in formalwear, but after two seasons of improvement, there's a definite decline in production values across the board for all four shows this season, and making snarky meta comments about it on Legends of Tomorrow is only highlighting the issue, Arrowverse.

Great episode for Iris, though - I think this may be my all time favorite Iris episode?  Heading out to do the reporter thing, strategically leading Team Flash, jumping off a building to save Barry, not to mention that amazing dress they had Candice Patton in? More of this, Flash! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, Trini said:

I was hoping for a WestAllen dance, but I wasn't sure they'd actually give us one; they came through!

----

And like most good episodes, they connected the crime/villain-of-the-week to the protagonists' personal struggles. And again props to them taking scenes outside of STAR Labs. Keep it up, show!

This room looks/reminded me of the Queen's room where Oliver had the party for Moira? Flash backdoor pilot? Or as others have said, also used for Arrow's 100th.

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

True...although also true to Arrowverse fashion, they reuse sets. The mansion that Barry/Iris went to is the location that Arrow's 100th episode took place in, I'm about 95% certain.

Still, for this show, having scenes outside of STAR Labs, the police station, Joe/Cecile's place or the same three warehouses they use is great.

Looks like the Queen mansion to me.

13 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

This. I am glad Cecile called Nora out on her behavior and that Nora and Iris are in a better place, but I am so over Nora already. The actress is fine, but I just find the character annoying. This must be my punishment for not minding Ralph last season. I do hope we get to see Iris' point of view in the future with the whole repressing Nora's powers bit, but with this show I am not counting on it.

I'm guessing now after Nora told Iris how everything was off limits in the future, that Iris won't dampen Nora's powers, and by sharing her life now, well, Future Iris Nora knew and left won't be the same Iris when she goes back. Speaking of which, WHEN will Nora go back?

[phoenics]

That was a damn good episode.

Loved:  Cecile demanding respect from Nora for Iris and telling her positive stories about Iris disguised as Barry stories so Nora would listen.  Iris vaulting off the roof like Simone Biles to save Barry.  Iris/Barry working that case together.  Ralph (I'm as shocked as you are).  Nora fangirling over her mom (!).  Barry being so supportive of Iris.  

Ragdoll was creepy as hell - I mean - YIKES creepy.

Iris in the RED DRESS!  Barry finally complimented her (after S1 it felt like Barry stopped complimenting Iris' hotness)... finally!

I never quite understood Ragdoll's motivation - why was he trying to steal everyone's joy?  Did I miss something?

Again.  Iris vaulting off the roof like Simone Biles was everything.

So - if you get shanked by Cicada's weapon, it makes it so you can't use your powers without intense pain?

[catrice2]

 the reason I have always been so critical of the Nora and Iris conflict is because of the fact that they already had Francine the black woman who abandoned her family and her child because of a drug addiction. Now I know I'm going to get all this "everybody else has dysfunctional relationships," but they have not been any families that are fractured or rife with drug or alcohol abuse from a minority group that is traditionally portrayed in media books magazines movies television shows Etc of not having whole and Loving families 

Barry's  dad was a brilliant scientist that was in jail unfairly, his mom was killed. Caitlin's parents are both supposedly well-respected Highly Educated people in their field. Don't know about Cisco don't care, but the black parent is drug-addicted and left their child making the other one a liar.

I just feel that it was important to either not have that storyline or to resolve it a lot more quickly than they have. Until the season they haven't even shown Iris interacting with any other minorities. She barely even interacts with Cecile.

[Rose Red]

Loved this episode. Iris my badass babe was awesome and Westallen was great.

Still don't like Nora or Caitlin. 

Hope Cisco gets better soon

[SevenStars]

13 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 the reason I have always been so critical of the Nora and Iris conflict is because of the fact that they already had Francine the black woman who abandoned her family and her child because of a drug addiction. Now I know I'm going to get all this "everybody else has dysfunctional relationships," but they have not been any families that are fractured or rife with drug or alcohol abuse from a minority group that is traditionally portrayed in media books magazines movies television shows Etc of not having whole and Loving families 

Barry's  dad was a brilliant scientist that was in jail unfairly, his mom was killed. Caitlin's parents are both supposedly well-respected Highly Educated people in their field. Don't know about Cisco don't care, but the black parent is drug-addicted and left their child making the other one a liar.

I just feel that it was important to either not have that storyline or to resolve it a lot more quickly than they have. Until the season they haven't even shown Iris interacting with any other minorities. She barely even interacts with Cecile.

The Francine story is the one story I will never forgive the writers for. There was no reason for that storyline and I hated it.