S04.E03: Dancing Queen

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When the Legends discover a fugitive is hiding in 1970’s London, they realize he is part of a gang that is targeting the British Monarchy.

 

[scarynikki12]

Liz rocking out was quite the opening. 

I love Zari’s new bracelet. I want one. Also her punk look was stunning. 

Zari works well with everyone and her giving Constantine the photo was lovely. 

Ray in Dad Dropping Off The Kids mode since he couldn’t pass for punk was so perfect. I like the turn it took once he was undercover. 

Mick and Sara backing up Ray’s attempt to be punk was great. Love his tattoo. 

I’m with Gary on grabbing extra tacos whenever possible. 

Constantine trapping Charlie with Amaya’s body was a clever way to bring back Maisie but I do hope she gets her powers back eventually. She was clever to shift into each of them to save herself. 

You know Ava and Gary make Nate tolerable so his move to the Time Bureau seems to be a good call. 

Totally down with Mick/Charlie is you want to go there show. Just saying.

[bettername2come]

I'm enjoying Maisie back and getting to use an English accent, although I don't really want to see her as a new character. I mean, I've kind of reached my limit on the Doppelgangers with Tom Cavanagh on The Flash.

Is it just me or is Sara having even more fun with the puns than usual this season?

And this has nothing to do with anything, but I kind of love that they're not making any attempt to hide that Ray/Brandon's hair is slowly turning gray. 

I want more backstory on the ex-nun, ex-mime and not-even-Irish members of the band.

[Sakura12]

I loved Mick and Sara helping Ray steal the Queen's corgi. Then Ray (I'm sorry Rage) getting a bit into being bad by making his hair taller. Lol. 

I liked seeing Zari bonding with Constantine. And Constantine figuring out time travel. I love her new bracelet. I'm also glad that Ray letting Nora out wasn't a secret for long. The Legends trust their leader. And he's right they've all turned on the team at one point. I still love Sara's leadership style of including her team in the decision making and asking their opinions. The other teams should take notes from her. 

I guess that's their explanation for Charlie looking like Amaya. She is different than her. I am hoping for Mick/Charlie since I didn't get Mick/Amaya. Also is Gary getting a love interest with Mona since he and John broke up. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Sakura12

[Jediknight]

I like Charlie.  She even gave Ray a new name, Just Ray.

Ray was fantastic in this episode.  Still a boy scout, trying to get the team to do the right thing, taking a stand against them, and admitting he helped Nora escape.

Speaking of Nora, she might have some competition with Charlie.  Because Charlie definitely does like Just Ray.

Constantine was kind of a dickhead.  He took away Charlie's powers, and she can't get them back.  That's not cool.  Some magic beings just want to kick it, work, cause no harm, and maybe go to a karaoke bar.  That's all Charlie really wanted to do.

Nate and Gary make for a good duo so far.  Would have liked to see their fight with Audrey.

[Lantern7]

How does Legends of Tomorrow not give a fuck this week? Well, bring in a shape-shifter, have her rotate between the Legends, get to Amaya in her disco outfit from the mission that's probably way better in out minds than the writers could have delivered (hey, they did a good Groundhog Day riff with Zari), have the team spare her, and then Constantine basically violates her by taking her ability away. Now Maisie is back as Notmaya. Easy-peasy! I hope she gets some sort of weapon or skill. I reckon she's more or less a "normal" now. Maybe limited shapeshifting down the road? Like Frobisher in the Doctor Who comics, only her default look is an African woman instead of a penguin?

I don't think Gary works as a recurring character. Too "comic relief"-y for me. I mean, great job neuralizing the taco girl, but he has zero business "in the field." And, of course, he'd bring Audrey II back to 2018. I don't think any of the Legends would've done that, not even in the fir- . . . wait, Nate left a book on Roman history for Caesar to find. Never mind. Still, Nate can do better with a "time bro."

Was there anything establishing that one cannot prevent one's birth? I mean, great to see Constatine thwarted since he's a pillock, but the cuts were a little jarring. Well, once Baby John is conceived, I'm sure Constantine can stomp his dad's nuts to his heart's content. Fuck it, he's in a damn time machine!

Rage . . . just Rage. Even when getting into rebelling, he's still a goofy Eagle Scout. And he stole a Corgi! Yeah, Queen's Corgis got treated better than most people . . . but it's a Corgi. Why would anyone mess with a Corgi? Mohawk was a nice touch, as was Ray's tattoo of said Corgi with the Mohawk and paper clip.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Lantern7

[tennisgurl]

We got a good Ray episode, so excited! That was a really good episode, I enjoyed all of the plots, and I like that they're throwing out the idea that not all of the magical creatures are evil, and some are more mischievous than actually evil. Its an interesting idea for the show to play with, especially now that Charlie will be sticking around. Pretty creative way to keep Maisie around while letting Amaya stay in her time period, and I like Charlie so far. I wonder if she will get her powers back at some point?

Ray really shouldn't do undercover work, he is way to sweet and empathetic towards people. I knew he wouldn't let them send Charlie to Hell, especially after she stood up for him to the other punks. Plus, as much as I love Ray as the happy ball of sunshine supporting character, I like when they give him more meat to chew on. And his punk look was adorable. AND, we got a nice Mick and Ray scene at the end! And of course Ray couldn't keep the Nora secret for too long, and nor should he. And I am glad that they decided to let her have a second chance, the way that most all of them did. 

Liked the Constantine and Zari scenes as well, I can see them getting along really well. I also admit to giggling when Constantine set Micks shoe on fire. I am liking seeing him kind of getting used to time travel, while the Legends crew gets used to more of the magical stuff. 

Nate and Gary are a fun duo, even though I wanted to see more of Little Shop of Time Travel!

[johntfs]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:06 PM, Jediknight said:

Constantine was kind of a dickhead.  He took away Charlie's powers, and she can't get them back.

Well, yes, Constantine is kind of a dickhead.  That said, one thing to recall is that Constantine doesn't actually have powers as such.  Magic is a skill for him.  He channels magic through rituals, which take time and certain ingredients.  The more potent the effect he wants to use the longer and more complicated the ritual to produce it.  Outside of that, John Constantine is a regular human being with a lot of weird knowledge.  When he goes against a demon or monster or what-have-you he has to maneuver in such a way that he finds a weakness or loophole and then exploits that ruthlessly to defeat it.  Because if he gives most of these things even a ghost of chance, they'll destroy him,  There's a saying that "The tiger is the gentlest animal in the jungle - because it can afford to be."  Generally John Constantine can't afford to be even a little bit gentle.

Ironically, the character he is most similar to is Mick Rory.  Outside of his flame gun, Mick is basically a tough, but otherwise normal human being.

Edited November 8, 2018 by johntfs

[UNOSEZ]

Enjoyed it throughly.. Knew that she was a shapeshifter as soon as they said her name.. As I knew that would be the character name that Maisie was gonna have... I guess locking her in that body was the way to keep her as Maisie but still really uncool.. 

[MadyGirl1987]

Loved Ray in this episode! He was adorkable trying to be punk and fit in.

That Corgi with a mowhawk was hilarious and adorable. I also love the fact it was the tattoo Ray got. I would never get one, too painful and permanent for my liking, but that wouldn’t be a bad one to have.

I wonder what is going on with Constantine and if that was why Mick didn’t like him.

That plant struck me as very Audrey 2 when Gary brought it in... Wish we could have seen what went down there.

Constantine's father was the worst. Telling your son he killed his mom in childbirth? Who does that? 

[Maelstrom]

This show continues to be more brilliantly absurd every week, and I love it.

Brandon Routh really stole the show tonight. As much as I love our sweet goofy Ray, he did a wonderful job showing Ray(ge)’s conflicted feelings. It seems like sometimes, of all the characters, Ray most easily gets lost in the shuffle, but this ep was a really great showcase for him and a promising start to his season arc. Also, he was downright menacing when Charlie stole the Atom suit. I liked that they tied in mentions of Nora and Amaya so seamlessly, none of the moral quandaries that came up felt forced or contrived at all.

This is pretty close to how I suspected they’d bring back Maisie, and it will be very interesting to watch how the Legends handle having Amaya’s face back onboard.

I got a kick watching the little demon plant running away from the Time Bros, and then the next scene showing no more plant but a metric ton of green goo everywhere. Also, how is it Gary hasn’t already managed to utterly destroy the Time Bureau, let alone all of existence? No wonder Ava is always so frustrated.

Constantine, your dad sounds like a bastard but it doesn’t mean you get to be a bastard to everyone else. Also, I need Mick to get him back for the shoe fire incident. I have no interest in watching Constantine get the better of my Legends every week.

Did we hear Gideon at all in this?

Love Zari’s new bracelet, very stylish. And on a completely shallow note, the punk hair looked really good on Brandon. Can we keep it please? Mick could still call him Haircut, even.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

I need Mick to get him back for the shoe fire incident.

He already did.  He broke a beer bottle over Constantine's head in the bar directly after that.

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I wonder what is going on with Constantine and if that was why Mick didn’t like him.

For all that he plays the "dumb muscle" Mick is not a stupid person.  He isn't classically intelligent, but he has a deep well of street-level common sense and a semi-healthy streak of paranoia.  I think he senses that Constantine is holding things back, perhaps even that he's running/hiding from someone.  I said in an above post that Mick and Constantine are somewhat similar.  Perhaps they're similar enough that Mick can read John a little - and doesn't like what he's reading.

Consider that while he put in slightly crude terms, Mick pretty effectively sized up Ray's motive for helping Nora get free.  At least Zari thought he did.

Edited November 6, 2018 by johntfs

[steelyis]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

And on a completely shallow note, the punk hair looked really good on Brandon. Can we keep it please? Mick could still call him Haircut, even.

Because Ray is such lovable goof I sometimes forget how good-looking Brandon Routh is.

2 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Constantine was kind of a dickhead. 

He's a right bastard.

He does feels bad about what a bastard he is, not a lot, but sometimes.

I'm becoming a big fan of Tala Ashe. She works in any combination with the rest of the cast so naturally. I was feeling shaky about Constantine, worried he might throw off the lighthearted chemistry of the Legends. I know him to be a very dark character from the comics, and most recently the Justice League Dark movie and City of Demons, which had one of the bleakest endings I've seen in any DC animated movie, including Flashpoint Paradox

Spoiler

where damn near everybody dies.

But his scenes with Zari softened the edges of his character and I started to feel like he might not drag the show into a morass of darkness. I think Tala Ashe's ability to make Zari down-to-earth and genuine with everyone made that happen.

Edited November 6, 2018 by steelyis

[Alice Mudgarden]

I think the show is doing a great job of keeping its bug nuts, fun charm while keeping Constantine true to who he is. There's no real difference between Constantine (the show) John and Legends John. A huge part of that is Matt Ryan, but I think the writers should also get props for keeping the voice and characterization pretty much the same.

The thing to remember about John is that part of why he's so gruff and prickly is that he doesn't want to get attached to people he feels are ultimately going to die because of him. There was a bit of dialogue in his own show that always stuck with me: 

Quote

John: I want to tell you something about me that nobody knows. I wake up every morning, and for the first five minutes of the day, I imagine that everyone I care about is dead. I lie there, and... I meditate on that. So that when it inevitably happens, then, uh... it lessens the blow.

Zed: Then what do you do?

John: I spark a ciggy and fry an egg.

That's John (at least TV John, I admittedly haven't read the comics) in a nutshell. He does care but he won't let himself linger on any of it. He can't. 

It's a balance, but I think the show is pulling it off. And I personally love having the character consistently on a show again.

 

All that said, my favorite part of the episode was Audrey II leaping off the desk and running away with her little root legs haha.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Alice Mudgarden

[Wishing Well]

Aww man, I hated Hawk chicken girl but I would’ve given anything to hear Ciara Renee and Arthur Darvill sing Suddenly Seymour as the Time Bros chased Audrey II.  Or hell, have Superflash duet again.

[thuganomics85]

I was unspoiled about what the plans were for Maisie Richardson-Sellers return, so the idea of her character actually being a shapeshifter that is stuck in Amaya's body is certainly a way to go!  Plus, it will allow her to speak in her normal accent!  While, I certainly hope the show doesn't overplaying their hand like The Flash has done with the various Wells, I'm looking forward to this.  And, yeah, I wonder if the might try something with Charlie/Amaya and Mick, since Maisie and Dominic Purcell were pretty fun together last season.

Ray having to go undercover with an European punk band was as delightful as expected.  Obviously the "fish out of water" moments where great, but I liked seeing Ray's conflict when he realized Charlie wasn't evil, and really didn't deserve to get banished to hell.  Brandon Routh really shined in this one.

The stuff with Constantine and Zari was nice too.  It's almost hard to imagine that Zari is actually one of the newer members still, because she really is a natural fit now and, again, Tala Ashe is really becoming one of (if not the) strongest performers here.

Nate and Gary's wacky adventures were amusing diversions.  But I noticed that the actress playing Mona (Ramona Young) was listed as a regular, so I wonder what's going on with her?

Sara definitely seems to be much funnier this season.  Maybe her relationship with Ava is causing her to let loose a bit!

Finding out that part of Mick's hatred for Constantine is because of his general hatred for ties, is probably one of the most normal things to find out on this show.

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I laughed at Sara asking Mick if he wanted QB or wetwork...I guess since he picked QB instead of the more violent wetwork our Mick is growing or he just didn't want to put down his beer.

this show has knack for creating cute, between little sabre tooth tiger, gumball, Beebo(all hail our lord and savior) and now sandwich eating plant I cant wait to see what they come up next, and just to put it out there I would buy figures of all of them...

Edited November 6, 2018 by Nogoodnamesleft
Spelling

[kirinan]

13 minutes ago, Nogoodnamesleft said:

I laughed at Sara asking Mick if he wanted QB or wetwork...I guess since he picked QB instead of the more violent wetwork our Mick is growing or he just didn't want to put down his beer.

Maybe it was because I had a long and stressful day at work yesterday and was fighting to keep myself from falling asleep (I'll have to watch it again tonight when I'm actually awake), but I didn't get this. QB? Wetwork? What did I miss? 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

5 minutes ago, kirinan said:

Maybe it was because I had a long and stressful day at work yesterday and was fighting to keep myself from falling asleep (I'll have to watch it again tonight when I'm actually awake), but I didn't get this. QB? Wetwork? What did I miss? 

Right before Ray went to dognap the Queen's corgi Sara asked Mick basically if he wanted to stay and lead him through the crime or go beat people up...

[Sakura12]

QB is for quarterback, basically tell Ray what to do. Wetwork is violent work, Sara taking out the Queens guards. So oblivious Ray can easily get a dog and look cool for his new friends. 

It was also great to see that the Legends are making an input on history where they are getting recognized from past missions in the same time periods.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Sakura12

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Also, how is it Gary hasn’t already managed to utterly destroy the Time Bureau, let alone all of existence? No wonder Ava is always so frustrated.

I know a lot of people have rather mixed feelings about Gary (some find him extremely annoying, in fact), but I like him, and I would love to get more of his backstory.  Given what a klutz he generally is (because I think he tries WAY too hard!), I have to wonder what the Time Bureau saw in him when they recruited him.  And it was nice to get confirmation that yes, he's gay -- we don't have enough gay male representation in the Arrowverse (y'all think Gary's annoying? He's got nothing on Curtis over on Arrow when it comes to being annoying!).

[Sakura12]

Gary being annoying is different than Curtis being annoying since Gary is supposed to be thought of as annoying. Even Gideon likes to make fun of him. 

[Jediknight]

16 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I know a lot of people have rather mixed feelings about Gary (some find him extremely annoying, in fact), but I like him, and I would love to get more of his backstory.  Given what a klutz he generally is (because I think he tries WAY too hard!), I have to wonder what the Time Bureau saw in him when they recruited him.  And it was nice to get confirmation that yes, he's gay -- we don't have enough gay male representation in the Arrowverse (y'all think Gary's annoying? He's got nothing on Curtis over on Arrow when it comes to being annoying!).

He mentioned having a bit of a crush on Ava last year, so I'm thinking he's bi.  It's just in the Legends way, they're not going to beat you over the head with it, and they won't have it be a big thing, that some team member hated and then grew to accept.

My guess as to why they keep Gary around, is that while he's a goof he might be one of the smartest people there (science wise), and we know he's brave.  He's a goof, but he's got balls.  We've seen him face a unicorn that's killed people, we know he helped Constantine defeat a dragon, and he came up with the way to track the Death Totem.  When the chips are down, Gary comes through.  It's like what Michael Westen said in an episode of Burn Notice, "Behavior in a combat situation is unpredictable.  Sometimes trained soldiers go screaming for the hills.  Sometimes guys who've never fired anything bigger than a cap gun, turn out to have ice in their veins."

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jediknight
Getting Michael Westen's quote right

[kdm07]

2 hours ago, Nogoodnamesleft said:

I laughed at Sara asking Mick if he wanted QB or wetwork...I guess since he picked QB instead of the more violent wetwork our Mick is growing or he just didn't want to put down his beer.

this show has knack for creating cute, between little sabre tooth tiger, gumball, Beebo(all hail our lord and savior) and now sandwich eating plant I cant wait to see what they come up next, and just to put it out there I would buy figures of all of them...

 

Mick was clearly in his element QB-ing this little adventure and yes, the show makes me want little funko pops of all their creatures lol.

Constantine is an ass. I'm at "tolerable" level with him but unless something changes over the next few weeks, he'll rise to the top of my highly dislike list on this show.

That was an interesting way of bringing Maisie back into the show. I wasn't expecting it at all. I do think keeping her as Amaya 2.0 is a little cruel and now they're stuck with her while also trying to figure out how to keep Nate in the dark.

The deadpan in Sara's voice when she said "Because I like to watch you grow" to Nate had me rolling!

Edited November 6, 2018 by kdm07

[Lady Calypso]

Out of all the ways I thought they'd have Maisie stay on as a series regular as a new character, I honestly didn't expect shapeshifter. I'm impressed with the way they did it...especially since it centered around Ray! Plus, Brandon got to expand his acting chops when he had to play Charlie for a brief scene. Ray is just filled with adorableness.

Back to Charlie, it'll be interesting to see how she fits on the Waverider. It seems like she should get along with Mick, and I've been wanting more Mick for a while. He seems to get underused on this show. She also seems to like Ray, which would be good.

Gary/Nate's "Little Shop of Horrors" plot was fun to watch. I do agree that Gary's a bit TOO much. They're using him so much for comic relief that I'd like to see a backstory on him at some point. Besides being either gay, bisexual, or pansexual, who is he, really? 

I'm not liking Sara withholding their new team member to Nate. I get that she's trying to spare his feelings because of the Amaya situation, but he's not going to be thrilled if he makes a surprise visit on the Waverider and runs right into Charlie. 

Constantine pisses me right off. I didn't really like Nate when he was in full on fratbro mode and pining after Amaya, but Constantine may take the cake on my least liked character so far. He doesn't fit in with this show for me at all. As much as Tala Ashe tried in the Zari/Constantine scenes, I couldn't muster up any positive feelings about Constantine. I'm sure he'd be a fine character on his own show, but he's not a team player and I don't think I have the patience for this show to make him into a team player. I think my biggest issue is that, on a show that is filled with dramatic and comedic moments, he doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humour....at least not one that fits with this show. Even Mick has a better sense of humour than Constantine. This guy is just pouty all the time. He couldn't even make me laugh when he kept trying to kick his father in the nuts because he had a sour look on his face.

I'm gonna rewatch the episode, though, to see if my feelings have changed on him.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Nogoodnamesleft said:

I laughed at Sara asking Mick if he wanted QB or wetwork...I guess since he picked QB instead of the more violent wetwork our Mick is growing or he just didn't want to put down his beer.

I thought the most interesting part of that was how easily Mick slipped into a leadership/tactician role - and how easily Sara trusted him to be able to perform that role.

Also, Mick's hatred of "cops" is interesting in that it seems to be more about a dislike of judgemental authority figures who impose their will on others instead of just disliking police officers.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Constantine pisses me right off. I didn't really like Nate when he was in full on fratbro mode and pining after Amaya, but Constantine may take the cake on my least liked character so far. He doesn't fit in with this show for me at all. As much as Tala Ashe tried in the Zari/Constantine scenes, I couldn't muster up any positive feelings about Constantine. I'm sure he'd be a fine character on his own show, but he's not a team player and I don't think I have the patience for this show to make him into a team player. I think my biggest issue is that, on a show that is filled with dramatic and comedic moments, he doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humour....at least not one that fits with this show. Even Mick has a better sense of humour than Constantine. This guy is just pouty all the time. He couldn't even make me laugh when he kept trying to kick his father in the nuts because he had a sour look on his face.

Yeah, the I must walk alone and be an ass to every one schtick is getting tired. It's one of the reasons I didn't enjoy Daredevil season 3 either. I don't mind a tortured soul but they should have some lightness in them. Maybe make a joke or 2 once in awhile. 

Constantine may be true to the comics, that could be why his show got canceled. I tried watching his pilot 3 times and could not get into it. He's okay for now but I don't know for how much longer if I don't see any growth from him. 

[Miss Dee]

I have to point out: Mick's assessment of people in ties = statistically more likely to be regular liars is an interesting one. He's not *completely* wrong.

Not as muck Mick/Ray interaction as I would have liked, but far more than we've gotten in a long time and I enjoyed it.

[johntfs]

21 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Constantine may be true to the comics, that could be why his show got canceled. I tried watching his pilot 3 times and could not get into it. He's okay for now but I don't know for how much longer if I don't see any growth from him. 

He's been on the team officially for two episodes and you've already seen some growth from him in forming a connection with Zari. 

I also suspect that we'll eventually see Constantine bond a bit with Mick over their own similarities.  Both killed their mothers.  Both had abusive fathers.  Both are basically non-super people with something that gives them an edge enough to deal with the super.  With Constantine it's magic.  With Rory it's his flame gun.

[Alice Mudgarden]

32 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Yeah, the I must walk alone and be an ass to every one schtick is getting tired. It's one of the reasons I didn't enjoy Daredevil season 3 either. I don't mind a tortured soul but they should have some lightness in them. Maybe make a joke or 2 once in awhile. 

Constantine may be true to the comics, that could be why his show got canceled. I tried watching his pilot 3 times and could not get into it. He's okay for now but I don't know for how much longer if I don't see any growth from him. 

I have faith they will. They're already giving him layers by way of the scene with his mom and his talks with Zari. It was similar in his own series. He got attached to Zed in spite of himself and sat by his friend's bedside while he was dying, clearly wounded by what happened. He also dropped everything to help Chas when his daughter was in trouble. John plays tough, but he's really just pushing people away for what he thinks is their own sake.

He's a snarky misfit, so he'll fit in with the Legends better than he'd ever want to admit to himself. I think of all the shows, this is the best one for him to be on.

[kirinan]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

QB is for quarterback, basically tell Ray what to do. Wetwork is violent work, Sara taking out the Queens guards. So oblivious Ray can easily get a dog and look cool for his new friends. 

Ah. Thank you, Sakura12. I thought QB might be quarterback, but I've never heard of wetwork before.

[Starfish35]

I’ve only heard the term wetwork in connection with assassinations before, and didn’t know what QB meant, so I was a bit confused as to whether Sara was asking Mick whether they should kill them or not. Lol. 

[Mellowyellow]

Oh Ray you so cute! I want to shrink you and put you in my pocket! 

This was a really great episode for him. He stayed true to himself and was all kinds of adorable but he wasn't the bubbling goof they sometimes force him to be. 

Very interested to see what they will do when they bring in Nora. There was some great chemistry last season but I almost get the feeling Ray's had too much time away to work himself into this whole Nora thing and when she does emerge it will throw him for a loop. I am so here for that. 

Gary has NOTHING over Curtis in terms of annoying. Gary is incompetent and silly but he means well and tries his best imo. I invite you all to watch one episode of Curtis, who besides being annoying and unable to read the room, is also a petty, whiny, mean spirited little twerp! 

I loved that sandwich eating plant! Besides Ray that was the second highlight of the episode for me.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Starfish35]

What surprises me is how much I’ve come around on Nate.  He’s gone from being that annoying guy that I just wanted gone, to being the steady unflappable rock of the team, and it’s cool to see how much Sara has come to rely on him since Jax left.   

As far as Constantine, as someone who was very vocal about not wanting him on the show, I actually haven’t minded him these first few episodes.  What will make the difference is if they’re willing to slowly transition him into actually being part of the team as they have everyone else, or if they’re going to stubbornly insist on him not changing (some of the summer press on the subject had me a bit concerned).

[johntfs]

On 11/6/2018 at 5:14 PM, Starfish35 said:

As far as Constantine, as someone who was very vocal about not wanting him on the show, I actually haven’t minded him these first few episodes.  What will make the difference is if they’re willing to slowly transition him into actually being part of the team as they have everyone else, or if they’re going to stubbornly insist on him not changing (some of the summer press on the subject had me a bit concerned).

Think about Mick Rory from the first season of LoT.  I thought Captain Cold was, well, cool but was looking forward to when Mick, his dumb psycho-pyro partner would leave the team, preferably in a body bag.  At his core, Mick is still the same character he was at the beginning but there have been changes.  I know I'd be bitterly saddened if Rory left the group now.

Edited November 8, 2018 by johntfs

[dkb]

Awww, Ray trying to act Rhagey was good, but the group acting betrayed because they found a picture of a previous mission when they were a disco group was hilarious. 

Ray you are the best! Actually everyone this episode was spot on.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Gary has NOTHING over Curtis in terms of annoying.

Oh yeah, people who think Gary is annoying should take a look at Curtis. Gary can be annoying and incompetent, but he is at least nice and tries to do the right thing, even when he bumbles around screwing things up. Curtis is also an awkward dork, but has a seriously mean and petty streak, and a pathological inability to read the room. All of the Newbies are awful after last season, but Curtis is especially annoying. 

[Alice Mudgarden]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

What will make the difference is if they’re willing to slowly transition him into actually being part of the team as they have everyone else

He looks like he's in the camp counselor uniform in next week's episode, which is a start! And also really strange to see haha

[BaggythePanther]

12 hours ago, kdm07 said:

Mick was clearly in his element QB-ing this little adventure and yes, the show makes me want little funko pops of all their creatures lol.

Constantine is an ass. I'm at "tolerable" level with him but unless something changes over the next few weeks, he'll rise to the top of my highly dislike list on this show.

That was an interesting way of bringing Maisie back into the show. I wasn't expecting it at all. I do think keeping her as Amaya 2.0 is a little cruel and now they're stuck with her while also trying to figure out how to keep Nate in the dark.

The deadpan in Sara's voice when she said "Because I like to watch you grow" to Nate had me rolling!

At some point in the future I want to see Mick lead a mission. It’ll happen by accident and he’ll be grumpy the whole time, but I bet he’d be great at it.

 I agree that removing Charlie’s abilities is cruel. I just think it’s messed up that Constantine knew this was another option but insisted on sending Charlie to hell anyway.

[darkestboy]

Not my favourite but I definitely enjoyed punk Ray and Charlie made a good first impression. Not cool of John having her trapped in Amaya's body though.

I did like the Constantine and Zari scenes and the rivalry with Mick is amusing enough.

Nice Time Bureau stuff with Nate, Gary and Ava this week. Not that sure about Mona but she might grow on me as a character though. 

The punk scene was pretty good overall though. 7/10

[blackwing]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:06 PM, Jediknight said:

Constantine was kind of a dickhead.  He took away Charlie's powers, and she can't get them back.  That's not cool.  Some magic beings just want to kick it, work, cause no harm, and maybe go to a karaoke bar.  That's all Charlie really wanted to do.

She used those powers to impersonate a trusted member of the team and used that trust to try and kill them.  I'd say between being banished to hell or losing her dangerous powers, she got the better option.

I like that they found a way to bring the actress back, but why can't they just find a way to bring back Amaya?  I loved her powers.  What was the backstory?  Were the special effects too expensive, were they tired of the character, did they need to find a way to explain how the modern day Vixen came into existence and thus Amaya had to stay in her timeline, etc?  I'm curious to see what Charlie is going to add to the team, assuming she becomes part of the team.

[DearEvette]

This was a nice episode.

I like that we got a callback to the time the team went Disco.  It was offscreen and all we saw was the outfits and the aftermath, so it was nice to use it again as a reference point here.  And I especially like that it was cleverly done because it was an unexpected callback based on Rayge's (ha!) quickly improvised dislike of disco.

On the one hand I think trapping Charlie into the body of Amaya is a neat little way to bring back Maisie and allow her to use her native accent.  And also gives her a personality so radially different from Amaya.  On the other hand, in show, it was really a rather dick move by Constantine. 

Which brings me to the other interesting issue raised in that they really are using a one size fits all approach to the magical creatures without assessing whether they should all be banished to hell.  In Charlie's case she was basically being given a murderer's level of punishment for doing what is probably the penal equivalent of selling weed.  Based on her conversation with Ray it seems like she was imprisoned in the first place not really because of any real dangerous things she did but because of what she was.  Unlike the unicorn and the fairy godmother who were wilfully dangerous to people, Charlie just seemed like she just as mush a poseur as the rest of her band, albeit in a more literal sense.  But she wasn't malicious or evil.  It seemed like her only real threat was to the timeline.

I am looking forward to seeing Nate's reaction.  I am in the small minority of viewers on this board in that I liked Nate and Amaya as a couple and I think in the end the actor did sell us Nate's love for her.  So I wonder how they'll do it.  I also hope they allow her to bond with Mick.  I liked Amaya and Mick's interactions and thought the two actors had a lot of chemistry.  Charlie's rebelliousness seems like a great fit for Mick's personality.

[Goldmoon]

Please give us a Mick romance at last!  He and Amaya seemed to be heading that way until Nate preempted them.  Also, Mona is ok as is, but I hope they don't turn her into some kind of "Sue" who can do no wrong and has abilities far beyond believeable.

[blackwing]

Something that didn't quite get explained.  When Charlie shapeshifted into the various team members, she had their bodies AND their voices.  Her body mass increased or decreased to their sizes and she spoke with their voices and accents.  However, when she shapeshifted into Disco Amaya, she has Amaya's voice but speaks with an English accent.  

I think they will probably say that she saw the picture of Disco Amaya in the paper and didn't see her in person so didn't know what she sounded like so that's why Disco Amaya had her own English accent.  But if that's the case and she can't replicate voices if she doesn't hear them, then I would think she wouldn't sound like Amaya at all.

I know the whole point of this was to allow the actress to speak with her own natural English accent... but still.  I'd rather have actual Amaya back.

[Cekrypton1]

A good Ray episode. I love how we learn the title, Dancing Queen, is not about QEII, but rather more a call back to disco and ABBA. I have to say, I am impressed with the show's writers for their deft use of continuity.  Given how much goes on, and how much changes, they are still able to track it all and use it when needed, and not trip themselves up.

Tala Ashe is the mistress of deadpan and reactions. I like watching her, even when she is not the focus of the scene, as she is always doing something interesting in the background. Nick Zano does this as well. 

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

did they need to find a way to explain how the modern day Vixen came into existence and thus Amaya had to stay in her timeline

This, I think.  They sort of wrote themselves into a corner by having Amaya be Mari McCabe’s grandmother, so she was always going to have to eventually go back to her timeline, and they couldn’t drag out forever the storyline of her agonizing over destroying her granddaughters’ future by staying in the present.  

What I originally thought they were going to do when it first leaked out about Maisie playing someone different this year (thanks Caity - lol!) was make Maisie’s new character be a descendant of Mari’s.  That way they could still have a Vixen, but not be tied into a future timeline that had to happen.  I didn’t expect something like this - not quite sure what to think about it right now.  Locked in this form, she has no powers, so it will be interesting to see how she ends up contributing to the team.

It also hasn’t escaped my notice that they’re gradually reducing the number of powered people on the team, and even the ones that do have powers (like Nate) don’t use them frequently.  Or even Mick’s blaster or the Atom suit.  I don’t know whether they got a budget cut this year, or whether all the special effects budget is being saved for the magical creatures.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, Goldmoon said:

Please give us a Mick romance at last!  He and Amaya seemed to be heading that way until Nate preempted them.  Also, Mona is ok as is, but I hope they don't turn her into some kind of "Sue" who can do no wrong and has abilities far beyond believeable.

I've shipped Mick/Amaya for years. I'd love if he & Charlie were paired. If not, at least never pair her with Nate.

Itll be interesting to see what the point of Mona is & how she gets involved in the shows main plot.

[DearEvette]

30 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

 Locked in this form, she has no powers, so it will be interesting to see how she ends up contributing to the team.

I am headwanking that the  'Charlie' form we meet her in is not her native form either.  Just one that she picked and liked in this time and place and decided to keep.  So it is conceivable that if she is stuck in the Amaya form long enough and grows and affinity for it and builds relationships with the group using that form, that even if she were to get her powers back she may decide to keep it.  Also comparatively speaking budget-wise it is a cheap power solution (unlike Nate's going steel or Ray shrinking).  If she needs to shapeshift into a day player character or even another regular character then it costs the show nothing.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DearEvette

[ItCouldBeWorse]

How was Charlie kept in a human jail (and for what crime?) if she can shapeshift, and why was she let go (or did she escape?) 

When did Gary obtain the plant? Did he go back in time again alone?

Does the world now permanently think that Queen Elizabeth II had a breakdown? And if Charlie was portraying the Queen,  who was playing her part in the band?

[Miss Dee]

I think the Legends went to a time before the Queen showed off her corgis, if you get my drift, and so prevented Charlie from playing that prank.