S01.E09: Candace

[formerlyfreedom]

Beck can't shake the feeling that there's more to the story of Joe's lost former love, Candace. Determined to find out the truth, it's Beck's turn to go to shocking lengths to dig up the truth on Joe. But she might have gone too far.

Airing November 4, 2018.

[Spartan Girl]

Beck, you are too stupid to live. You BELONG on Lifetime.

How sad that Dr. Nicky was yet another male that couldn't resist her magical vagina. Speaking of which, Joe kept her used tampon?! Ewwwwwwwww!

[dubbel zout]

Joe has refined his stalking technique since Candace, heh.

If Beck put half the effort into writing that her she put into researching Candace, she'd have a decent number of pages. Maybe she needs to go for an MS in journalism, not an MFA in creative writing.

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Beck, you are too stupid to live. You BELONG on Lifetime.

Hee. She really does. Violating Joe's privacy like that? Of course it's going to come to a bad end!

[VioletNevermind]

Ya’ll.  PENN BADGELY.  This guy is one hell of an actor.  Mind you, I don’t watch many dramas on TV and I definitely didn’t watch Gossip Girl, so I’m very easy to impress in this department, but he never fails to bring it every week.  He strikes that perfect balance between menace and humor without taking it over the top into off-putting and scary (well, except maybe this week).  As nuts as he is, I’m still rooting for him.  

That scene where he slammed Uncle Jesse up against the fence was just awesome.  I’m kind of sad that the surface level pretense of his relationship with Beck (who is still as awful as ever) has clearly ended, but the finale should be awesome.  I haven’t enjoyed a show this much in years, especially not on Lifetime, of all channels.  

Edited November 5, 2018 by SuzyLee

[LittleIggy]

Wow! ? Chekhov’s hiding place in the ceiling came into play with a bang! Guess Beck never heard the saying “Curiosity killed the cat.” Whose teeth were those? Benji’s? The finale should be a doozie!

BTW, I watch a lot of dramas and PB is a fab actor. He owns the role of Joe.

Edited November 5, 2018 by LittleIggy

[Guest]

Maybe I'm dense, but I didn't see most of that coming. The stuff with Candace was almost cartoonishly predictable, but maybe that's because we've been able to guess her back story from day one. I was especially confused by the affair. I mean, yeah, it's Lifetime and it's John Stamos, but that kind of came out of left field. We never once saw Dr. John Stamos and Beck flirting or outside of a professional context. Suddenly they've been having sex for months? When? Is the implication that it started before she broke up with Joe for thinking she was cheating? Penn Badgely was really fucking good in the scene where he confronted her about the affair. It was weirdly almost heartbreaking because you could see how desperate he was for love, to the point where he was willing to forgive the ultimate sin of adultery just because Beck nervously babbled out some fake deep crap about being unworthy of love and wanting to love him. Joe really is a very damaged little boy underneath it all. That explains why he's so drawn to Paco.

Beck, you hapless fool, you don't confront your potentially homicidal boyfriend with suspicion that he murdered his ex-girlfriend when you're alone with him in his apartment! I was surprised how quickly she bought his story about her changing her name, especially after her elaborate deep dive research montage.

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE. I know Joe is unhinged, but I'm hard-pressed to believe he's that stupid, especially with all of his police paranoia. And was that bright red thing supposed to be Candace's finger? There's no way it would just be chilling all wrapped up with fresh fake blood - the whole box would stink and be filled with larvae. The most unrealistic aspect of this show is the wildly inaccurate creative liberties they take with the rate and signs of human decay. "oh here's my jog tank, here's my phone....AHH! A perfectly preserved year old severed finger that has somehow not touched anything else in the box!" After being kind of annoyed with Beck all season, I felt genuinely terrified for her when she was scrambling to clean up the shattered glass from the dead tooth collection (...) and then when Joe confronted her about the resulting finger cut. The tension when she hides behind the bathroom door was unbearable and really well acted.

I should have known that this season would end with Beck in that box. I hope they don't go too hammy and Lifetime with the final showdown. I'm sure Joe will be moved to tears by her amazing poetry about being held captive and then decide to let her out because it would be selfish to keep her literary gifts from the world. I don't have a lot of confidence that Beck of all people is going to be the one to crack Joe, but then again, she's a gigantic Mary Sue.

On a shallow note, I was somewhat bored with this episode after last week's fun romp because it just wasn't as sexy or intriguing. It was a lot of impatiently waiting for characters to put together the dots that they seemed to be willfully refusing to connect. I hope that sacrificing the overall momentum to basically spend an episode setting up the finale will be worth it.

ETA: Ok used tampon makes a lot more sense than severed finger lol

Edited November 5, 2018 by Guest

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Wow! ? Chekhov’s hiding place in the ceiling came into play with a bang! Guess Beck never heard the saying “Curiosity killed the cat.” Whose teeth were those? Benji’s? The finale should be a doozie!

BTW, I watch a lot of dramas and PB is a fab actor. He owns the role of Joe.

It was teeth! I glanced away and totally missed what Beck reacted to. I guess the teeth might be Candace’s, to keep from identification of the body, but maybe it’s a combination of Benji’s too.

This was a great episode, it was hugely tense and answered so many questions.

[lanter]

Quote

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE. I know Joe is unhinged, but I'm hard-pressed to believe he's that stupid, especially with all of his police paranoia. 

I found that believable. Serial killers often like to keep their trophies close by, it's stupid but so is killing people. 

I really liked this episode, some of it was predictable but it was good to get the full backstory on Candace. Joe sure seems to be attracted to women with a lot of personal issues. I guess kind attracts kind.

Next weeks episode looks intense. At this point I'm not sure who I want to be the last one standing, one character is crazy and the other is Beck so.....

[BooBear]

5 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE. I know Joe is unhinged, but I'm hard-pressed to believe he's that stupid, especially with all of his police paranoia.

So clearly you never watched Dexter where he kept blood slides from all his victims in the air conditioner in his apartment. I mean that is DNA evidence all wrapped up for the police. 

This was great but I can't wait for next week because I have zero clue where this is heading. 

[allonsyalice]

7 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Ya’ll.  PENN BADGELY.  This guy is one hell of an actor.  Mind you, I don’t watch many dramas on TV and I definitely didn’t watch Gossip Girl, so I’m very easy to impress in this department, but he never fails to bring it every week.  He strikes that perfect balance between menace and humor without taking it over the top into off-putting and scary (well, except maybe this week).  As nuts as he is, I’m still rooting for him.  

I’m here thinking Penn would make a superb Patrick Bateman! He’s get every note of Patrick’s icy, cold personality just right. (Also Joe? Patrick? Just about the same person)

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

How sad that Dr. Nicky was yet another male that couldn't resist her magical vagina. Speaking of which, Joe kept her used tampon?! Ewwwwwwwww!

I thought it was someone's thumb to unlock an iPhone passcode.  LOL.

12 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Ya’ll.  PENN BADGELY.  This guy is one hell of an actor.  Mind you, I don’t watch many dramas on TV and I definitely didn’t watch Gossip Girl, 

Season 1-2 are great.  Penn's great in it.  If you're ever curious.  I even watched "The Stepfather" for him, which is not great.  He's also in "Easy A"; I forget that he was even in that, but I love that movie.

11 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE. I know Joe is unhinged, but I'm hard-pressed to believe he's that stupid, especially with all of his police paranoia.

And he also basically told Paco where it was..... 

11 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

After being kind of annoyed with Beck all season, I felt genuinely terrified for her when she was scrambling to clean up the shattered glass from the dead tooth collection (...) and then when Joe confronted her about the resulting finger cut. The tension when she hides behind the bathroom door was unbearable and really well acted.crificing the overall momentum to basically spend an episode setting up the finale will be worth it.

This show is really, really scary!  I was scared 4-5 times in this episode, but especially the end!

I just wish more people watched with us.  I wait all week long with bated breath for this stupid show, then I get so excited to read about it and post about it.  But there's always so few of us!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[chick binewski]

10 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I was especially confused by the affair. I mean, yeah, it's Lifetime and it's John Stamos, but that kind of came out of left field. We never once saw Dr. John Stamos and Beck flirting or outside of a professional context. Suddenly they've been having sex for months? When? Is the implication that it started before she broke up with Joe for thinking she was cheating? 

I know they brought up (then quickly dropped) the idea of the affair, so when it was brought back this week it seemed tacked-on to drive another fight. Between two people who don't know or trust each other at all. I did love the ending; it had that 'why is she running into the basement' horror trope feel, but still very tense & well done.

Also, I have some confusion so I am totally here for the finger/tampon debate.

[MajesticMariposa]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Joe kept her used tampon?!

 

22 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Also, I have some confusion so I am totally here for the finger/tampon debate.

It was Benji's finger to unlock his phone/storage locker thing (can't remember which), not a tampon.

[allonsyalice]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This show is really, really scary!  I was scared 4-5 times in this episode, but especially the end!

I just wish more people watched with us.  I wait all week long with bated breath for this stupid show, then I get so excited to read about it and post about it.  But there's always so few of us!

 

One thing this show does well is they know exactly when to amp the tension up and they did it so well this episode! Im like watching with bated breath. They totally know how to get you!

Not gonna lie, I didn't hear about this show until it was 5 eps in and I binged it all and i was totally hooked (to the point where Im on the waiting list at the library for the book only 6 more weeks!) I'm enjoying this show and it's a stellar cast. This was a very goo episode of a very good show

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE.

I appreciated that it was a box instead of a secret Wall of Crazy. 

5 hours ago, BooBear said:

This was great but I can't wait for next week because I have zero clue where this is heading. 

For all of the clichés the show indulges in, it also does a great job of keeping us guessing what will happen next.

[lvbalgurl]

This was a pretty fascinating episode.  As soon as Beck emerged from her cloud of self-absorption for 5 seconds, she actually began to piece together that something was off with Joe.  She began to stop looking at him as someone who exists solely to adore her and prop her up, but as a separate entity with a potentially shady past.  The fact that she had cheated on him makes sense - Joe in his hyper-obsession with Beck has always been aware of who she is.  She's the kind who cheats.  She cheated with him on Karen, she cheated on him with Dr. Nicky.  Of course he was right about it all.  Her explanation, btw, was weak as fuck (the actress who plays Beck was equally unconvincing).  She felt trapped/smothered by Joe and, and instead of actually discussing how she felt with him, she fucked someone else as a release and a way to escape.  She is wildly immature and a liar, cheater, and hypocrite.  She had no problem digging around in Joe's past while continuing to hide the fact that she'd had an affair with Dr. Nicky.  Smdh.

I continue to love Joe and root for him.  He is so damaged, so incredibly fucked up, and Penn is too awesome in this role.  He was SO good in the Beck/Joe confrontation scenes. 

I can't believe the next ep is the season finale.  I figured Beck would end up in the cage but I have no idea how things will turn out after that.  This show is terrific.

[waving feather]

Does cut off finger work for thumb print security? I thought it has to have warmth. Anyway, I'm glad Paco is avoiding Joe now, less chance for Joe to be his Mr. Mooney, who encouraged his serial killing. Is Mooney a serial killer himself, I wonder...

I thought Joe was super obvious when he assaulted Dr. Nickey. He could have pretended to rob him and take his wallet. Instead, he asked to unlock phone and look at the activity instead. If Dr. Nickey is smart, he could put it together that the person who assaulted him is someone he knows. 

Beck decided not to be self absorbed for once and she found out nearly everything. Joe must be really desperate/ obsessed to buy her "I love you too much so I cheated on you" excuse.

[biakbiak]

Okay I can suspend a lot of disbelief but how did Joe get an I assume passed out Beck to the bookstore without causing any suspicion? They are basically the same size, she might weigh more than him.

Edited November 5, 2018 by biakbiak

[luckyroll3]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Beck, you are too stupid to live. You BELONG on Lifetime.

So true.  She's such an idiot.

man, I thought for sure her throat was getting slit during the scene where he confronted her about cheating.  That shit was scary.  And despite all that, I'm still rooting for Joe's crazy ass because Beck is unbearable.  

[tennisgurl]

I almost wonder now if Joe deliberately goes after these women who he knows will inevitably cheat on him and feed his natural jealousy, so that he will end up doing into this murderous tailspin. I also wonder if the old bookstore guy was a serial killer of some kind, and he helped Joe to become what he is. There is just so much to chew on here! 

Oh my God, Beck finding the stuff was so intense! I was yelling "run Beck, run!" right at my laptop! Beck is a pretty crappy, self centered person, but I dont want her to actually get killed the way every other person who crosses Joe does. I knew she would end up in the box, but it was still shocking. I truly have no idea what is going to happen this week, and thats pretty impressive. I think the creepiest part was probably Beck finding the teeth though. That was some straight up Criminal Minds shit right there. Joe holding onto stuff that belonged to his victims might be stupid, but its also pretty consistent with serial killers. While Joe might not be a "traditional" serial killer, but I think he has probably killed enough specific kinds of people ("bad" people) to be considered one. 

The affair was pretty random, but Beck DOES have her daddy issues. Oh, sorry, her #daddyissues. It is fun seeing Beck actually pull her head out of her ass, and show some investigation skills. Maybe she should stop with her angsty poetry, and go into investigative journalism, or write nonfiction. She actually seems somewhat competent at that. Also, this show is really making me paranoid about checking into places on Facebook or Instagram! 

Penn is so freaking amazing here, he really does have a gift for being charming one second, and terrifying the next. And its different kinds of terrifying, sometimes cold and calculating, and sometimes manic and crazy eyes. 

Also, Joe seems to have something of a Madonna/Whore complex going on. He sees the guys who Candace and Beck cheated on him with (or were just into) as monsters taking advantage of these poor, innocent girls, who are just too sweet to function without him around to protect them, and without him, "bad guys" will take advantage of them, not like "good guy" Joe would. But, the second they finally try to leave Joe...

[Ms Blue Jay]

Forgot to talk about how we got way more Ethan this episode.

"Candace?  Candace Bushnell?  Yeah, she's great, but I can't stand SJP."
Beck:  "You KNOW who I'm asking about Ethan!!!!!"

LOL!  I love Candace Bushnell too!  

There were some more references he made, but for sure they went over my head at the time.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I almost wonder now if Joe deliberately goes after these women who he knows will inevitably cheat on him and feed his natural jealousy, so that he will end up doing into this murderous tailspin.

It's sort of the flip side of the abuser coin: "Why do you make me hurt you?"

[Chaos Theory]

Who is the monster here?

it is an interesting question to debate  We all know Joe has killed quite a few people by this point.  That being said, it wasn’t without “justification”.   I HATELOATHE DESTEST the term but if anyone fits the Nice Guy trope it is Joe yet he picks the girls like Candace and Beck who are bound to cheat on him because they see him as just a nice guy and they don’t see the darkness inside of him until it is too late.  Both Candace and Beck cheated on Joe and used him to feel better about themselves and at lest Beck we know had never really taken Joes feelings into consideration.  She is a user and passively a social climber.  But then she hasn’t really done anything deserving of getting murdered except in the old world slut shaming throwing stones at whores kind of way.   

Still......it is and interesting question.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Kimmel77]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Okay I can suspend a lot of disbelief but how did Joe get an I assume passed out Beck to the bookstore without causing any suspicion? They are basically the same size, she might weigh more than him.

Ethan must be curious why the place has a 'Do not enter' sign on it so regularly in recent years.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

The show has had some real jump the shark moments, I was wondering how Joe got Beck there too. 

[Door County Cherry]

11 hours ago, waving feather said:

Beck decided not to be self absorbed for once and she found out nearly everything. Joe must be really desperate/ obsessed to buy her "I love you too much so I cheated on you" excuse.

I'm wondering why he didn't blame Dr. Nicky more.  Because he blamed Peach for being bad for Beck.  And he blamed Benji for being bad for Beck.  And yet her therapist, one person who absolutely should not be having a relationship with her outside of that office, wasn't the recipient of his wrath.

[SuseQ]

I absolutely love this show.  It has an unusual vibe, Penn B. Is incredible as Joe and it’s creepy and suspenseful.  I don’t want the season to end! 

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm wondering why he didn't blame Dr. Nicky more.  Because he blamed Peach for being bad for Beck.  And he blamed Benji for being bad for Beck.  And yet her therapist, one person who absolutely should not be having a relationship with her outside of that office, wasn't the recipient of his wrath.

Maybe he was afraid Beck would figure out he'd been seeing Dr. Nicky, too? I know Beck is hardly the sharpest tool in the shed, but as a plot point I could see that happening.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I almost wonder now if Joe deliberately goes after these women who he knows will inevitably cheat on him and feed his natural jealousy, so that he will end up doing into this murderous tailspin. I also wonder if the old bookstore guy was a serial killer of some kind, and he helped Joe to become what he is. There is just so much to chew on here! 

Also, Joe seems to have something of a Madonna/Whore complex going on. He sees the guys who Candace and Beck cheated on him with (or were just into) as monsters taking advantage of these poor, innocent girls, who are just too sweet to function without him around to protect them, and without him, "bad guys" will take advantage of them, not like "good guy" Joe would. But, the second they finally try to leave Joe...

I don't think he intentionally picks women who he thinks will cheat on him. I think it's just he pursues women who are very superficial and vapid because they're the easiest to project his own narratives onto because there's not much there there. But, by the same token, the self absorption and entitlement that comes with being blandly pretty means that they are also more fickle and susceptible to flattery and attention, which stokes Joe's cheating paranoia and flips the switch to make him perceive them as ruinous temptresses and whores who must die to atone for Taking his love for granted and not appreciating his sacrifices, and the cycle repeats itself. Remember, he had no such obsession with Karen because as someone pointed out, she pursued him. He never worried about Karen cheating on him because he never saw her as a conquest that he had to defend. Their relationship was actually pretty normal and functional compared to his other ones, but he quickly grew bored with how mundane she was because she didn't fit his typical Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Damsel in Distress fantasy that serves as the kindling for his romantic infatuation and sexual obsession. So, all of that to say that in my mind, it's his choice in mark that inadvertently creates the perfect storm for his infidelity issues and inferiority complex to be triggered, rather than a subconscious desire to be cuckolded. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? 

Tons of 'em!

Quote

And was that bright red thing supposed to be Candace's finger? There's no way it would just be chilling all wrapped up with fresh fake blood - the whole box would stink and be filled with larvae. 

It can happen. Not saying that's what did happen here but the bugs don't show up forever.

Edited November 6, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Door County Cherry]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Maybe he was afraid Beck would figure out he'd been seeing Dr. Nicky, too? I know Beck is hardly the sharpest tool in the shed, but as a plot point I could see that happening.

Maybe.  But I don't think Joe thinking her therapist took advantage of her would indicate he must have met him.  Not having a personal relationship (romantic or otherwise) is a standard professional boundary licensed therapists must adhere to in order to stay licensed.

And he did accuse her of cheating on him with her therapist,  right?  Because if not, then my argument is somewhat moot.

[kj4ever]

On 11/5/2018 at 11:34 AM, waving feather said:

Does cut off finger work for thumb print security? I thought it has to have warmth. Anyway, I'm glad Paco is avoiding Joe now, less chance for Joe to be his Mr. Mooney, who encouraged his serial killing. Is Mooney a serial killer himself, I wonder...

 

I think they pretty much insinuated that Mooney molested him at the very least with this episode.  When Joe went to him and confessed what he did to the dude that signed Candance he told him to undress, so I was thinking he must have beaten the dude to a pulp or something.

Turns out he just pushed him off a roof, so getting rid of clothes or anything like that would be totally unnecessary.  I think they showed us that and the creepy hug to let us know he did quite a bit of damage to Joe.

[Bobcatkitten]

Joe had access to her texts etc the whole time. How did he not know about the therapist?

[princelina]

16 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm wondering why he didn't blame Dr. Nicky more.  Because he blamed Peach for being bad for Beck.  And he blamed Benji for being bad for Beck.  And yet her therapist, one person who absolutely should not be having a relationship with her outside of that office, wasn't the recipient of his wrath.

I think it's because he thought that she was oblivious to Peach and Benji's poor treatment of her, but she knew what she was doing when she lied to him about the doctor.  Also I believe he had come to like the doctor.

[TattleTeeny]

19 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Joe had access to her texts etc the whole time. How did he not know about the therapist?

I could be wrong, but I thought he made some kind of vow to stop his spying on her after she dumped him?

[luckyroll3]

20 hours ago, kj4ever said:

I think they pretty much insinuated that Mooney molested him at the very least with this episode. 

I didn't get that sense at all.  Just that he was just as sociopathic as Joe and helped Joe grow his sociopath tendencies.  But who knows.

19 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Joe had access to her texts etc the whole time. How did he not know about the therapist?

 

24 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I could be wrong, but I thought he made some kind of vow to stop his spying on her after she dumped him?

He stopped looking at her texts and other spying after Peach's death, once he and Beck and gotten into a groove in their "Everythingship", before she had even told him about seeing a therapist.  

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

20 hours ago, kj4ever said:

I think they pretty much insinuated that Mooney molested him at the very least with this episode. 

I didn't get that sense at all.  Just that he was just as sociopathic as Joe and helped Joe grow his sociopath tendencies.  But who knows.

I got the idea that Mooney abused Joe, definitely emotionally and possibly physically.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

So clearly you never watched Dexter where he kept blood slides from all his victims in the air conditioner in his apartment. I mean that is DNA evidence all wrapped up for the police. 

Oh, yes!!  And I tell my friends that YOU is Dexter + Sex in the City.  

Quote

I just wish more people watched with us.  I wait all week long with bated breath for this stupid show, then I get so excited to read about it and post about it.  But there's always so few of us!

I blame Lifetime.  Every episode is ONE AND DONE.  No 1 am or Wednesday night repeat or Saturday marathon ... Lifetime just shows the episode ONCE and not everyone gets the On Demand channel.  And it's on SUNDAY NIGHT... a night when there is a lot of TV competition AND everybody is getting ready for the week. The show should be on a Tuesday and then repeated on Friday night with a Sunday marathon of episodes before a new episode.  I remember when Bravo started the Real Housewives juggernaut.  Those episodes were repeated morning, noon and night until eventually they grabbed the audience.  This should be the same!    

At least I'm doing my part.  I introduced it to a pal AND to my cousin, who's having wisdom tooth surgery tomorrow.  I told her it was the perfect recuperation show!!!  

[Chaos Theory]

On 11/5/2018 at 12:15 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

 

What kind of accidental serial killer is dumb enough to keep random souvenirs from all of his victims from the past year in a single box? That box might well have been marked EVIDENCE. I know Joe is unhinged, but I'm hard-pressed to believe he's that stupid, especially with all of his police paranoia. And was that bright red thing supposed to be Candace's finger? There's no way it would just be chilling all wrapped up with fresh fake blood - the whole box would stink and be filled with larvae. The most unrealistic aspect of this show is the wildly inaccurate creative liberties they take with the rate and signs of human decay. "oh here's my jog tank, here's my phone....AHH! A perfectly preserved year old severed finger that has somehow not touched anything else in the box!" After being kind of annoyed with Beck all season, I felt genuinely terrified for her when she was scrambling to clean up the shattered glass from the dead tooth collection (...) and then when Joe confronted her about the resulting finger cut. The tension when she hides behind the bathroom door was unbearable and really well acted.

 

Fort the record real serial killers do keep trophies.   http://mindhuntersinc.com/why-killers-take-trophies/  Its a way to keep a reminder after the fact.  Television shows that have serial killers tend to keep more mundane trophies because of television purposes like with Dexter a drop of blood allowed for the repetition but still keep him as a sort of nice guy.  The same for Joe.  At this point I don't even think he realizes what he is doing is keeping trophies.   But that is what they are.  

[Jadzia]

On 11/5/2018 at 12:15 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I should have known that this season would end with Beck in that box.

 

And now I can't stop thinking of SNL: "Step One: cut a hole in a box..."

"It's my Beck in a box, girl!"

Edited November 8, 2018 by Jadzia

[JD5166]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:53 AM, TattleTeeny said:

I could be wrong, but I thought he made some kind of vow to stop his spying on her after she dumped him?

He smashed her phone so he wouldn’t be tempted, I think he was still doing  little checking up on her social media accounts, tho. 

[GracieK]

So I’m wondering if they’ll be able to tie up everything with the suspicious cop, the PI investigating Peach’s death, the cup of urine, Paco, the full backstory with Mooney, and a number of other loose threads. I’m totally fine if those stories extend into a second season though because I really dig this show! I feel like tv doesn’t quite hold my attention much any more but I definitely get engrossed with this one. 

[waving feather]

If there is next season, I want Joe to be obsessed over another woman. I want the Beck and Joe chapter to close this season.

[Palomar]

What is sad (for Joe) is all of these killings for Beck were ultimately unnecessary. Benji didn't see Beck as anything else but a bootie call,  Beck didn't always listen to Peach's advise,  the affair with the Dr was already over and most of all, she was finally in love with him.  Not a smooth love story, but it could have worked for awhile at least. Of course his dark side would have eventually came out.

[Zanne]

I'll admit it, I have no sympathy for Beck. She's an awful person. Some might say flawed, but my vote is throw her on the trash heap and be done with her. Beck is always so "woe is me" and it's other people's fault she acts like she does, but in the end I don't think it's terribly much to realize that sleeping with your therapist is a bad idea. I would be more upset if Joe were stalking Kate (?) because at least Kate appeared to be an honest representation of herself. I think they stacked the deck to force the audience to sympathize with Joe by making Beck so intolerable. It's not like I'm "Yay, Joe!", but more like, "Oh, God, can we please get rid of Beck?"

[Lady Calypso]

This was a good lead-up to the finale, I think. It was obvious that Beck would eventually need to catch on to Joe, since nobody else seemed to get close enough to figuring things out. Unfortunately, it took Beck's jealousy over Candace to finally start seeing things. I don't think Beck's a good person, and I don't buy her confession to Joe when he asked her about her affair, but she's not sociopathic like Joe is. I can feel bad for her because Joe is a sociopathic manipulative serial killer. We know he's a serial killer now as we have confirmation on three intentional deaths: Elijah, Benji, and Peach. I was surprised to see Mr. Mooney still alive, but it seems like Joe caused harm on him too. Although Mr. Mooney seems to have helped encourage Joe to be this person and give in to his tendencies, so there can't be much sympathy for him and his current fate. But I'm pretty sure Joe had left Mooney to die and it just didn't happen. I guess we'll find out more in the last episode.

As for Candace, they still haven't confirmed what exactly has happened to her. She's gotta be dead at this point, but the question is more about what Joe did to her. But that backstory was fairly obvious. Joe is drawn to a certain type of girl, it seems. Both Candace and Beck are/were self absorbed people who used him while also cheating on him. However, as awful as these women can be, Joe is still worse because he's killed. 

I am surprised that Joe ended up leaving Dr. Nicky alone after getting confirmation. I guess he was haunted a bit by Elijah's death so maybe that's also why he chose to confront Beck instead of punishing Nicky as well, especially since the therapist has been actively helping him? It's hard to say for sure.

 Joe is truly a fascinating character to watch and to study. I'm not sure what his plan is with Beck, but I think he doesn't want to kill her. It's just a messy situation for him. 

[methodwriter85]

So when Mooney has Joe get naked and then embraced him, are we supposed to infer that the past abuse included sexual elements? Because damn, poor kid.

Beck, you are so damn stupid.

On 11/11/2018 at 5:27 PM, Lady Calypso said:

We know he's a serial killer now as we have confirmation on three intentional deaths: Elijah, Benji, and Peach.

Yeah, I think to be defined as a serial killer you need to have at least 3 intentional deaths, with cooling off period somewhere in between.

[veronicalodge44]

watching belatedly on netflix - and so glad these discussions are here, so many insightful comments.

 

two things:

i think that joe actually had a bit of a connection with the therapist, plus he overheard dr. nicky having the 'fight' on the phone with this 'girlfriend' - when he decides to let him go, he says 'he'll get his' or something like that, which i took as joe thinking dr. nicky is fucked up and will bring pain and difficulty to himself anyway.

 

and also - the second candace social media account, after she 'changed her name' - did joe take a bunch of her pictures and just photoshop her into the italian scenes?  will someone skilled in digital forensics suss that out at some point?  and if i'm right - did joe create this second account sometime soon after he killed candace?  i'm probably way too fixated on this one detail, but this show kind of does that to a viewer, doesn't it?

 

on to the finale...

[bettername2come]

Candace moves to Italy without leaving a trace and your first thought is that she's still in NY making out with your boyfriend in secret? And girl with daddy issues fucking the therapist is so cliche. But he's also John Stamos, so I'll give her a pass. Don't hurt John Stamos! Uncle Jesse lives! And now you're in a cage, Beck. So, not to victim blame, but did you learn your lesson about dating creepers? He wasn't even that good a creeper.

Flashback Mooney! Do not encourage this mess. Mooney's alive?! That's a twist I didn't expect. Nice surprise there, show. I'm hoping we get another twist and Candace really did change her name and leave the country, hence him being paranoid enough to lock a woman in a cage in the basement. Oh, God, that look on Joe's face when he realized she'd seen his creepy box of trophies.

[Blakeston]

Despite Joe being regularly referred to as a sociopathic serial killer, I don't think he qualifies as either.

I wouldn't call him a sociopath. He's a cold bastard who does brutal things, but he also seems to genuinely care about certain people (like Paco and Claudia). And sociopaths don't obsess over feelings of love for others.

I'd say he's a person whose sense of right and wrong is completely warped, as opposed to someone who lacks empathy entirely.

And while he's a multiple murderer, I wouldn't say he fits the psychological profile of a serial killer. He kills when his back is to the wall, or when extreme circumstances push him over the edge. He doesn't seem to get off on killing, or do it for profit.

A true serial killer would have been champing at the bit to kill Benjy once he was in the cage. Joe seemed to be wishing for a way to let him out.