S09.E04: The Obliged

[Captain Asshat]

13 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

They missed a musical moment, but were probably too cheap to use “Down in a Hole”.  Which was some roadrunner shit. Meep meep.

When the walkers started falling in, I started singing, "It's Raining Men." 

[Dobian]

I'm in the minority but I liked Negan's conversations with Michonne, if only because for one of the rare times he was talking like a human and not a cartoon.  I also liked what Daryl said to Rick...after the part where he dumbly deflected blame for sending them hurtling into the improbable hole in the ground.  Other highlights included the second straight episode I believe of no Tara (and she only had one short scene in each of the first two), and watching what happens when someone calls Carol a "weak little woman."  Not so good things included having to suffer through another rambling monologue from Eugene (who I guess we are stuck with until the end of this show), and Michonne getting surprised by a zombie for the gratuitous "oh no I hope she doesn't get bit" moment.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dobian

[UNOSEZ]

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

The Oceansiders have put into motion a series of events that could have been stopped by Maggie and Daryl that could very likely cause the death of Rick.  Actions have consequences and by the Oceansiders taking the law into their own hands by killing a bunch of Saviors, the put into motion foreseeable  events that would result in a Saviors uprising.

Right... But no let's all blame rick for trying to build a future that they all want and know is the right move.. ( Maggie even Said so)   then blame rick some more after our halfhearted passive aggressive attempts to barely try don't work and the defeated saviors sense the hostility.. Then let's blame rick and his vision some more when yet another group's actions strain relationships to the breaking point and send us back to a war like state that everyone suffered thru and lost so much to...  Smh

[Bryce Lynch]

16 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The Oceansiders have put into motion a series of events that could have been stopped by Maggie and Daryl, but weren't, that could very likely cause the death of Rick.  Actions have consequences and by the Oceansiders taking the law into their own hands by killing a bunch of Saviors, that put into motion foreseeable  events that would result in a Saviors uprising.

That Savior uprising resulted in gunfire that diverted the walkers towards Rick.

 But, Rick started the whole series of events by denying Maggie, Daryl, The Kingdom, The Hilltop and the Oceansiders justice, by unilaterally deciding to let Negan live and to pardon numerous Savior war criminals, and expect all the aggrieved parties to act like nothing had ever happened, while working side by side with them on his precious bridge.  

If Negan had be executed, and the Savior torturers, rapists, etc, had been appropriately punished (likely, most by the death penalty), there  would be no need for the Oceansiders to take the law into their own hands.

When the authorities utterly and deliberately fail to execute justice, vigilantes will naturally spring up.  

[meep.meep]

13 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Michonne has a 300$ bucks faucet that still exist in the apocalypse but all the rest vanished.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Michonne and Rick have a very nice queen sized bed, after the Saviors took all the beds out of Alexandria and burned them.  Continuity is never really tight on this show.

I keep wishing that they could just kill Negan in Murder on the Orient Express style - everyone takes a whack at him.  Then he turns and they keep the zombie in the cell as a lesson to all the survivors.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Rick is right that Negan would have been turned into a martyr.  Negan's death doesn't solve anything but stir up more shit.  And, I don't give a shit what Maggie wants.  If Maggie didn't stupidly get pregnant none of this happens.  Glenn is obviously also responsible for the pregnancy, but he paid the ultimate price, there is little more that can be said about his useless ass.

Negan would not have been a martyr.  His side was soundly defeated.  Anyone evil enough to consider that evil, raping, torturing, extorting, murdering, SOB a "martyr" needed to be "martyred" along with him.  The only reason any Savior is still alive is by the mercy of the alliance against them.  

[Dobian]

30 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Rick is right that Negan would have been turned into a martyr.  Negan's death doesn't solve anything but stir up more shit.  And, I don't give a shit what Maggie wants.  If Maggie didn't stupidly get pregnant none of this happens.  Glenn is obviously also responsible for the pregnancy, but he paid the ultimate price, there is little more that can be said about his useless ass.

Wha...huh?  What's with the Glenn hate lol.  As for how stupid Maggie was getting pregnant, it's still a mathematical fact that even with the resource constraints people still have to procreate or humanity is finished in another generation or two.  "Hey look, we've rebuilt society for the future.  Oh wait, where are the kids?"

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dobian

[Ouisch]

It didn't occur to me until long after the episode that that the climbing-out-of-the-hole scene was a callback to "Chupacabra", when Merle was taunting Daryl after he'd been thrown from a horse (and suffered a puncture through his flank!) "why don't you ask your friend Rick to help you up?!"

[enoughcats]

I saw a real life injury similar to Rick's.

Across the street from us in New Orleans was a huge loquat tree, and when the loquat ripened, young boys from several miles away would come, climb the tree and eat until they were full.  One fell off the tree onto an old fence with a spiked top. His leg was impaled just below his knee.  His friends took off on bikes to summon help. We had the policeman who was paid by homeowners for extra security at our next door neighbor's and he was picking up his paycheck.  He had a first aid kit in the trunk of his car and it had the heavy duty pads to stop the bleeding (somehow the kid had flopped off the fence onto the ground.) and he called an ambulance as he was running to the kid. The ambulance came, repressured the injury and took the kid away to the local hospital.  The kid's family arrived about ten minutes later. 

Kid survived. Either the spike didn't hit a major artery or vein, or it just brushed by them.  There was some blood on the sidewalk, but not that much. Until that, I had assumed that impalements were fatal. 

Just for background for looking at an impaled Rick.

[tiredofwork]

Does anyone remember last seasons multiple "dream scenes" where they showed Rick with red rimmed eyes, laying on his back, looking obviously in distress and some sort of light flashing on his face??  I don't remember them ever clearing that up.  So is it possible that those "flashes" from last season are the Rick impaling scene from last night?

I am pretty certain I am done with this show at the end of this season which in my opinion should be the last season..  I just don't want to get invested in new characters, and of those remaining from the original group after Rick is gone, won't hold my interest..  

[Dobian]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Maggie didn't get pregnant on her own.  Glen had to "sign his name".   Having kids when the world is in total chaos is an incredibly stupid idea.

Yeah I kind of know how pregnancy works.  Well if you're saying having kids in this world is stupid then what's the point of building a society?  Just go out on your own, find an abandoned mansion or country club to live in, make your way to a former beach resort, and enjoy what's left of your life in this doomed world.  That's what I would do.  If you don't have kids, humanity is done, this isn't rocket science.  If you have say 100,000 people left scattered across America and only 100 of them have kids, well your population in the next 50 years will be down to 100 plus whatever kids they have.  See, they don't have the luxury of saying, "well the world is in chaos now, we'll wait 20 or so years when things are settled down some to start having kids again.  Oh wait, the women folk aren't fertile anymore, oh well."

[BravoAddict72]

39 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Wha...huh?  What's with the Glenn hate lol.  As for how stupid Maggie was getting pregnant, it's still a mathematical fact that even with the resource constraints people still have to procreate or humanity is finished in another generation or two.  "Hey look, we've rebuilt society for the future.  Oh wait, where are the kids?"

I have always thought everything that is happening is Maggie & Glen's fault. Everything started when they all risked their lives to get Maggie to Hilltop for her baby. She really needs to remember that when she keeps complaining about Rick. Without Rick and his group her baby wouldn't be there.

[Macbeth]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I am rooting for the horse to survive.

I am always rooting for the horse(s) to survive.  The horse was right to dump Rick's sorry ass as 2 hordes of walkers were coming his way.

[AngelaHunter]

tennisgurl said:

Quote

...what the ever loving fuck?

Great tagline, I thought:

 

[Colorado David]

lol that opening with Michonne. this is why I play videogames about killing zombies after work - it's a great stress reliever to hack a lot of things to bits :)

[Dobian]

26 minutes ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I have always thought everything that is happening is Maggie & Glen's fault. Everything started when they all risked their lives to get Maggie to Hilltop for her baby. She really needs to remember that when she keeps complaining about Rick. Without Rick and his group her baby wouldn't be there.

Yeah but remember they all risked their lives because Rick stupidly started blindly attacking Negan's outposts before he knew anything about his enemy.  He grossly underestimated the Saviors and that resulted in their capture.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dobian

[sarthaz]

I didn't hate it as much as everyone else apparently. Then again, I expect every episode to be a steaming pile of shit these days, so if it features major characters exchanging actual dialogue (even if it's within a literal plot hole), I'm probably shocked into enjoying it.

I have no idea why Michonne is reading so many books and writing so much. She's not studying for the bar. Give everyone a copy of G'Kar's Declaration of Principles, schedule a Constitutional Convention, and get back to farming.

[Token]

I'm now firmly entrenched in hate-watching this show.  I wish they would cancel it, just to put me out of my misery.  I can't believe the awesomeness that was season one, probably the greatest show I've ever watched, has degenerated into this garbage.  New show runner, same old crap.

[Dobian]

I really don't get the point of the stupid bridge.  Where did all the infrastructure go that was there when the ZA began just eight years before?  Aren't there still usable bridges all over the place?  Aren't there better places to set up shop than an old mansion on a hill and abandoned manufacturing plant?  Why can't they just consolidate and take over a whole town and have houses for everybody?  A lot of this is based on the tired trope of enormous herds of zombies walking around.  After what, five years in show time I would think 99% of them would have fallen apart by this point, and the rest would just be milling about in formerly densely populated areas.  The options for where to set up ideally located communities should be far more varied than what is presented on this show.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dobian

[OoohMaggie]

So, the first Walking Dead F Bomb on a broadcast show, just a shame they had to give it to Mumbling Man!

[mrspidey]

Featuring the most conveniently placed pile of rebar rubble ever. 

Seriously, he couldn't have fallen anywhere else???

Edited October 29, 2018 by mrspidey

[Persnickety1]

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

It didn't occur to me until long after the episode that that the climbing-out-of-the-hole scene was a callback to "Chupacabra", when Merle was taunting Daryl after he'd been thrown from a horse (and suffered a puncture through his flank!) "why don't you ask your friend Rick to help you up?!"

I really was hoping for a quick Michael Rooker appearance. 

When Darryl reached up for the helping hand, I thought having a quick flash of Merle and then changing the image to Rick would have been all sorts of awesome.  

But we're talking about a show that sometimes lacks a bit in imagination.

Of course, they did give us that oh-so-subtle imagery of Rick being the proverbial knight on a white horse, so I guess there's that.  

[Ouisch]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

After what, five years in show time I would think 99% of them would have fallen apart by this point, and the rest would just be milling about in formerly densely populated areas. 

I'm still trying to reconcile the show's timeline....Season 8 began allegedly two years after the outbreak, and Season 9 started with an 18 month time jump....   So Judith (who was born in Season 3) should be maybe almost three years old by now. But the toddler portraying her is at least six years old. Yet Gracie (who is approximately 23 months old now) is described by Aaron as an infant with explosive, um, diaper-soiling bodily functions as he cradles her in his arms.

[EllipticalAddicted]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

I really don't get the point of the stupid bridge.  Where did all the infrastructure go that was there when the ZA began just eight years before?  Aren't there still usable bridges all over the place?  Aren't there better places to set up shop than an old mansion on a hill and abandoned manufacturing plant?  Why can't they just consolidate and take over a whole town and have houses for everybody?  A lot of this is based on the tired trope of enormous herds of zombies walking around.  After what, five years in show time I would think 99% of them would have fallen apart by this point, and the rest would just be milling about in formerly densely populated areas.  The options for where to set up ideally located communities should be far more varied than what is presented on this show.

 

Your post is so logical and contains my thoughts regarding the whole damn thing.   However, it is all wrong.   

 

The sacred "Bridge" is a metaphor and serves as a bridge to mankind's future.   It brings all the communities together as they have to work together to rebuild it.    It serves as a common hub where all the communities intersect and they can see their commonalities.   It is truly a bridge over troubled waters, one that must be crossed.

 

All that and it's where our hero dies.   He dies to preserve all of these things!!   C'mon people!!!

 

now, I'm off to throw up after reading what nonsense I just wrote.

[OoohMaggie]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

 

I really don't get the point of the stupid bridge.  Where did all the infrastructure go that was there when the ZA began just eight years before?  Aren't there still usable bridges all over the place?  Aren't there better places to set up shop than an old mansion on a hill and abandoned manufacturing plant? 

 

The original bridge was washed away in the recent storm, as fuel is now so limited and reliance upon horse drawn transport is growing, the shortest possible route between the communities is becoming more and more important. If repairing the bridge can save a day, two or even more days travel, then it would become a high priority to reinstate.

Filming costs have a huge part to play in which locations are used, how much would it cost taking over or constructing  a town, rather than construct a small set in the woods? This is why city centre scenes are kept to a bare minimum.

Edited October 29, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Until the rule of law is in place, any revenge killings will lead to nothing more than more revenge killings.  Since Negan wasn't killed in battle, there needs to be a trial.

But, Rick unilaterally decided that there would be no trials, and no justice. for Negan or his fellow murderers, rapists, torturers and war criminals.  He decided that Negan would be housed and fed in a cell, for Rick's personal vanity of wanting to honor the memory of Coral and wanting to his BS about what a wonderful utopia he was building while Negan was locked up.  His henchmen would face no punishment whatsoever and be welcomed as members of the community...and given welfare payments in the form of free food from the members of the communities they terrorized, raped and tortured.  

GREAT plan!   

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

So, the first Walking Dead F Bomb on a broadcast show, just a shame they had to give it to Mumbling Man!

A laugh thanks lol.  His hair being in his face and eyes will never stop driving me crazy.

Negan is fine when he speaks like a normal person but I just do not care about him.

Carol was good though. That fool letting his guard down around her.

[JackONeill]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Maggie didn't get pregnant on her own.  Glen had to "sign his name".   Having kids when the world is in total chaos is an incredibly stupid idea.

I thought it had something to do with Bisquick?!?

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

I really don't get the point of the stupid bridge.  Where did all the infrastructure go that was there when the ZA began just eight years before?  Aren't there still usable bridges all over the place?  Aren't there better places to set up shop than an old mansion on a hill and abandoned manufacturing plant?  Why can't they just consolidate and take over a whole town and have houses for everybody?  A lot of this is based on the tired trope of enormous herds of zombies walking around.  After what, five years in show time I would think 99% of them would have fallen apart by this point, and the rest would just be milling about in formerly densely populated areas.  The options for where to set up ideally located communities should be far more varied than what is presented on this show.

There might not be a lot of great places to set up, that aren't overrun by walker and that have walls around enough area to grow food.  

I really don't have a good feel for where the other communities are located, but the Potomac seems to be the only major river near Alexandria.

Walkers seem to keep on ticking and biting, until their skulls are crushed or pierced.  But, I would think very, few new ones would be getting created and with all the ones the survivors kill, the walker population should be declining.  Plus, you'd think they would have developed better walker management techniques.  Crazy Morgan had come up with all sorts, all on his own, way back in Season 3.  There should be walker traps all around the roads the survivors travel.    

2 hours ago, sarthaz said:

I didn't hate it as much as everyone else apparently. Then again, I expect every episode to be a steaming pile of shit these days, so if it features major characters exchanging actual dialogue (even if it's within a literal plot hole), I'm probably shocked into enjoying it.

I have no idea why Michonne is reading so many books and writing so much. She's not studying for the bar. Give everyone a copy of G'Kar's Declaration of Principles, schedule a Constitutional Convention, and get back to farming.

Yeah, I mean we had a Constitutional system that worked quite well for well over 200 years.  Coming up with a system of government should be rather easy. Take what existed and tweak it a bit to fit the current situation.  

[OoohMaggie]

46 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Since Negan wasn't killed in battle, there needs to be a trial

Would that be the ‘Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe trial? 

Edited October 29, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[AnyTimeFromNow]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am rooting for the horse to survive.

 

 

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I am always rooting for the horse(s) to survive.  The horse was right to dump Rick's sorry ass as 2 hordes of walkers were coming his way.

I liked the way the horse was just casually eating grass at the end of the scene when the camera panned out. Mare don't care.

[Smad]

I love that the horse threw him off and to his possible doom. Finally some JUSTICE FOR THE HORSES. How many wonderful horses have these people gotten killed since episode 1 of the show? About time the horses fight back.

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, Smad said:

About time the horses fight back.

I loved how "Silver" was just standing there, all chill, as the herd of walkers approached, while Daryl and Rick were yelling, and Daryl revved up his bike engine. Rick mounts the horse, who then obviously thinks, "Shit, Not this guy. I'm not going down!" and throws him in such a way he conveniently lands on the Killer Rebar. I dearly hope Silver got away, even though on this show, the most fleet-footed of animals can't escape the shuffling zombies.

[Smad]

5 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I dearly hope Silver got away, even though on this show, the most fleet-footed of animals can't escape the shuffling zombies.

You can't blame the animals for that. After all the zombies have some kind teleportation abilities or multiply on the spot like the Matrix and they also move silently through woods.

[SnarkyTart]

6 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I remember back in the day watching every episode 2-3 times during the week, looking for things I had missed and just because I enjoyed it so damned much.

Now I watch the episode once and that's it. 

I hear you on that.  I used to always watch the episodes live.  Last season I started watching them the next day on the DVR instead.  This season I'm running 2-3 episodes behind on the DVR, depending on whenever I get around to it. I also used to watch all the Talking Dead episodes live.  Now I hardly ever watch them at all, just delete them from the DVR after seeing how crappy TWD episodes are. 

[Lady Iris]

Thank you show for giving Daryl to speak more than a few grunts. 

I can’t remember, can anyone tell me what Michonne’s occupation was pre-ZA? 

[peach]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 He decided that Negan would be housed and fed in a cell, for Rick's personal vanity of wanting to honor the memory of Coral and wanting to his BS about what a wonderful utopia he was building while Negan was locked up.

GREAT plan!   

I feel like this storyline would have made more sense if in the pit with Daryl, Rick maybe broke down and realized nothing will bring Carl back, and that he was being irrational in his grief.  That he needed to let justice take its course for everyone else.   That he would have relented on this prison plan and maybe suggested that they should do a public trial and take care of it officially, and start over.  Then he rides off to his impalement with some kind of peace being settled with his fam.  It's just atrocious to have everyone turn against him and then this happens while he's all alone.

[AngelaHunter]

25 minutes ago, peach said:

I feel like this storyline would have made more sense if in the pit with Daryl, Rick maybe broke down and realized nothing will bring Carl back, and that he was being irrational in his gri

Yes, I agree, because the way we get it is that his grief over his lost son - who was not killed by Negan or his crew -  gives him the right to make all rules and that it takes precedence over the terrible grief of everyone else who lost someone, including those who were killed by Negan. Obviously he doesn't see it that way since his feelings are law.

[watch2much]

I've always watched these on DVR but it was must see TV at the soonest possible time.  tonight I fast forwarded thru parts.  that's how far it's fallen.I'm so sick of Negan and all he entails.  the Lucille bit is laughable.  and has there ever been such a worthless character as Jadis/Anne?  Just end this train wreck already.

[Dobian]

3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Filming costs have a huge part to play in which locations are used, how much would it cost taking over or constructing  a town, rather than construct a small set in the woods? This is why city centre scenes are kept to a bare minimum.

Well yeah, I wasn't factoring in real world things like production budgets, so there is that.  For various reasons, TWD worked so much better the first two or three seasons as a survival horror show.  As a world building show it just falls way short, and the walkers themselves are just inserted into it every now and then only to remind us they're still out there.  But they're not terrifying anymore, just something these communities have to deal with.  Which leaves us with a show about community struggles, which is pretty boring.

[Gobi]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

 

OMG, when that white horse appeared that is exactly what entered my head.

 

I was really hoping that the horse would say "Oh, Wilbur!"

[Gobi]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

There must be something about that bat that goes back to Negan's wife.  There has to be a tie in there somewhere.

I thought his wife's name was Lucille. Seriously. Didn't he say that once? I think it was when he was in the trailer with FPP.

[jaigurudeva]

2 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Thank you show for giving Daryl to speak more than a few grunts. 

I can’t remember, can anyone tell me what Michonne’s occupation was pre-ZA? 

In the comics she was a lawyer, in the TV series they've never explicitly said. But she has tasked herself with creating the entire legal system of the new society, so it's a good bet she was a lawyer in this universe, too.

[diebartdie]

7 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Michonne and Rick have a very nice queen sized bed, after the Saviors took all the beds out of Alexandria and burned them.  Continuity is never really tight on this show.

Pretty sure in the intervening 18 months they could have raided a furniture store for new beds.

[FishyJoe]

Killing Negan would not have made him a martyr other than to other descpicable scumbags who probably deserve the same fate. Just like killing Nazis after the war didn't create Martyrs. Hitler dying was probably the best thing to happen. It let people move on from the past. 

[mjc570]

10 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

Shadowfax!  Highlight of the episode for me,  Although I did appreciate the falling zombies, excuse me, walkers.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, watch2much said:

tonight I fast forwarded thru parts. 

I FF'd through the Jadis/Anne/FPP/Winslow 3 bit. Been there, seen that already. What are TPTB thinking, rehashing stupid scenes that bored us stiff the first time? Only difference is that FPP didn't miraculously end up with a flare in one hand a gun in the other.

[enoughcats]

5 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

reliance upon horse drawn transport is growing, the shortest possible route between the communities is becoming more and more important.

So go back to the roads that were established 1900s and before.  They are still there, lots of us live along them.  They were laid out to be easier on horses and mules which is a lot more important that shortest distance between two points.

How do you recognize such roads? Blind bends and hill tops.  Back then you could hear the other wagon coming at you.

Bridges....there were "fords" and those fords still are there.  Horses can handle water, and wagons follow the horses. 

And entrepreneurs built ferrys out of wood, and charged money for poling across rivers.   Too realistic?  

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, jaigurudeva said:

In the comics she was a lawyer, in the TV series they've never explicitly said. But she has tasked herself with creating the entire legal system of the new society, so it's a good bet she was a lawyer in this universe, too.

She did say in the series that she was a (human rights, I think?) lawyer.

[peach]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

And entrepreneurs built ferrys out of wood, and charged money for poling across rivers.   Too realistic?  

I thought of ferries, also.  Many roads in my area are still named "Something" Ferry.  Also, walkers can't use them!
 

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I FF'd through the Jadis/Anne/FPP/Winslow 3 bit. Been there, seen that already. What are TPTB thinking, rehashing stupid scenes that bored us stiff the first time? Only difference is that FPP didn't miraculously end up with a flare in one hand a gun in the other.

Truly one of the worst edits in television history.  LOL.  SO BAD!