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S09.E04: The Obliged

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2 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Thank you show for giving Daryl to speak more than a few grunts. 

I can’t remember, can anyone tell me what Michonne’s occupation was pre-ZA? 

In the comics she was a lawyer, in the TV series they've never explicitly said. But she has tasked herself with creating the entire legal system of the new society, so it's a good bet she was a lawyer in this universe, too.

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7 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Michonne and Rick have a very nice queen sized bed, after the Saviors took all the beds out of Alexandria and burned them.  Continuity is never really tight on this show.

Pretty sure in the intervening 18 months they could have raided a furniture store for new beds.

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Killing Negan would not have made him a martyr other than to other descpicable scumbags who probably deserve the same fate. Just like killing Nazis after the war didn't create Martyrs. Hitler dying was probably the best thing to happen. It let people move on from the past. 

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10 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

Shadowfax!  Highlight of the episode for me,  Although I did appreciate the falling zombies, excuse me, walkers.

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1 hour ago, watch2much said:

tonight I fast forwarded thru parts. 

I FF'd through the Jadis/Anne/FPP/Winslow 3 bit. Been there, seen that already. What are TPTB thinking, rehashing stupid scenes that bored us stiff the first time? Only difference is that FPP didn't miraculously end up with a flare in one hand a gun in the other.

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5 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

reliance upon horse drawn transport is growing, the shortest possible route between the communities is becoming more and more important.

So go back to the roads that were established 1900s and before.  They are still there, lots of us live along them.  They were laid out to be easier on horses and mules which is a lot more important that shortest distance between two points.

How do you recognize such roads? Blind bends and hill tops.  Back then you could hear the other wagon coming at you.

Bridges....there were "fords" and those fords still are there.  Horses can handle water, and wagons follow the horses. 

And entrepreneurs built ferrys out of wood, and charged money for poling across rivers.   Too realistic?  

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1 hour ago, jaigurudeva said:

In the comics she was a lawyer, in the TV series they've never explicitly said. But she has tasked herself with creating the entire legal system of the new society, so it's a good bet she was a lawyer in this universe, too.

She did say in the series that she was a (human rights, I think?) lawyer.

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1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

And entrepreneurs built ferrys out of wood, and charged money for poling across rivers.   Too realistic?  

I thought of ferries, also.  Many roads in my area are still named "Something" Ferry.  Also, walkers can't use them!
 

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I FF'd through the Jadis/Anne/FPP/Winslow 3 bit. Been there, seen that already. What are TPTB thinking, rehashing stupid scenes that bored us stiff the first time? Only difference is that FPP didn't miraculously end up with a flare in one hand a gun in the other.

Truly one of the worst edits in television history.  LOL.  SO BAD!

 

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14 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I was wondering: Is there anybody left over from the original Alexandria? I know we talked about Francine last week. What about that big guy who sort of had the hots for Carol ... is he still around? I guess what’s her name who had the hots for Carl, even though if memory serves she wasn’t from Alexandria. (And BTW, I honestly can’t remember their names because there are too many characters, and most of them only show up about every 7th or 8th episode.) I know Aaron is still around, even though his boyfriend was killed. But they’re dismembering Aaron piece by piece. Pretty soon he’ll just be a trunk like the knight in the Monty Python movie.

So, basically, Rick and his people are like the crows. They’ve come in and taken the spoils of someone else’s hard work.

 

 

The guy who was briefly with CMurda was Tobin.

 

Died last season, he was the one that kicked off the walker attack at Hilltop.

Of those who were injured with weapons/bullets with tainted blood.

Tobin died, reanimated and started eating everyone in sight.

 

Of the Original ASZ folks...

 

There's Aaron, Scott, Enid and I think the Ginger haired lady who occasionally

babysat Judith is still alive.

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15 hours ago, patty1h said:

I thought that was the young girl from Oceanside, the one who was so aggressive towards Tara when Tara turned up there 1-2 seasons ago.

Also - she was one of the Oceansiders in the background when they were offing Arat.

 

18 hours ago, Ouisch said:

And I can't keep track of so many characters anymore....how and why did they end up with a tent city?

The tents were on-site quarters for the construction crews while working on the bridge.

 

Quote

Who are those renegade Saviors?

The Saviors who walked out on the bridge construction after Arat turned up missing.

 

14 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

Silver ran away from the bridge construction camp when the fight broke out - one of the Kingdom’s horses.  Carol and the rest of the Kingdom folk were preparing to head back home when the bridge-building project fell apart, and the renegades showed up as the Kingdom subjects were finishing packing.

 

18 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 Anyone else see [Norman Reedus] in Hawaii Five-0 Season 1, Episode 1?     He speaks with an Irish accent!

Well, that was probably considered appropriate for Reedus’s character - an Irish terrorist and arms dealer. ;)   

Reedus also did an Irish accent in the Boondock Saints films, which is probably where he learned to do one so well.

Norman himself was born in Hollywood FL, though, and grew up in various parts American.

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7 hours ago, peach said:

I thought of ferries, also.  Many roads in my area are still named "Something" Ferry.  Also, walkers can't use them!
 

Truly one of the worst edits in television history.  LOL.  SO BAD!

 

Or a cable/rope bridge. They aren't even using cars anymore, they don't even need a large bridge. 

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11 hours ago, enoughcats said:

So go back to the roads that were established 1900s and before. 

That road may well be one, there may have been a bridge there in the 1800’s, if there was, then that highlights just how important it must have been to the communities. Surely there is no downside to repairing the infrastructure if they hope to improve the world they live in.

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1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

Or a cable/rope bridge. They aren't even using cars anymore, they don't even need a large bridge. 

You know, the bridge they were trying to build looks like something out of the Dept. of Transportation handbook for Highway 1 in Big Sur. Seriously, it looks like a damn serious bridge. Do they need something that ... massive? And why so tall, and so ... spanning? Tell me they scouted the riverback to look for a better place to build? (I suppose now that Rick is impaled on rebar, he has plenty of time to second-guess himself.)

Another thing, and I know I should hand-wave this, but it looks as though Eugene is in charge of building the bridge. I know he’s “the Professor” [of Gilligan’s Island] of this crew, but seriously—how many degrees does the guy have? How does making bullets, making ethanol and building bridges (and everything else he’s opined on) tie in?  My English Lit degree would be completely useless in the ZA. Oh well, at least Ezekiel and I could put on some splendid Shakespearean plays!

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12 hours ago, Dobian said:

the walkers themselves are just inserted into it every now and then only to remind us they're still out there.  But they're not terrifying anymore, just something these communities have to deal with.  Which leaves us with a show about community struggles, which is pretty boring.

Well you’ve highlighted the big problem, what do they do when the Walkers aren’t scary? The show’s becoming ‘Little House On The Prairie’  For danger they have to rely upon bad storms, crops dying, the occasional band of bad guys moseying through town or Judith falling down the well. 

There are a couple of new groups yet to be seen, so we’ll just have to wait and see what the show does with them.

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Now that I think about it, a small rope bridge would be a good defense against walker hordes and invaders. 

You could make a trap door in the bridge to dump walkers into the river. Or simply remove planks from the ends which would completely block walkers. 

Or the ferry idea is a good one. You could even rig a rope across to move the ferry with, which would eliminate the need for paddling. 

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12 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Pretty sure in the intervening 18 months they could have raided a furniture store for new beds.

Yep, priorities first,  obviously not concerned with finding important things, like nets to protect the crops.

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The bridge is probably as much a psychological thing as anything else.  They've said it's the easiest and most direct way to connect the various communities for trading and communication and an object of permanence they created is likely very important to them living in a world that's increasingly a falling down ruin of what they remember.   Bridges are markers of civilization and no one wants to regress any further back than they have to if they can possibly help it.  As long as they're all interdependent and no one's supporting themselves, it also makes sense to have a big sturdy permanent structure to do all that hauling across.  A rope bridge isn't likely to support the weight of a loaded wagon.  A finished bridge doesn't require constant manning in an isolated spot the way a ferry likely would. 

This is one I'll give Rick.  While we can argue all day about the rest of his vision of everybody living hand in hand with their former tormentors, he's not wrong that it's a practical symbol of trying to rebuild the world rather than continuing to live as packs of scavengers among the ruins.

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3 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

Or a cable/rope bridge. They aren't even using cars anymore, they don't even need a large bridge. 

Don’t think the horse-drawn wagons they’re using to transport food and other stuff ‘n thangs between the different settlements would be able to navigate a rope bridge very well....

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1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

we also have Nora, the girl with the Afro type hair who was talking to Michonne

I kept expecting Nora to suddenly spazz out and chuck her cell phone across the yard because she’d accidentally butt-dialed her ex.  ;)

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Typo
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2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Don’t think the horse-drawn wagons they’re using to transport food and other stuff ‘n thangs between the different settlements would be able to navigate a rope bridge very well....

So you carry stuff across. Easier than building a gigantic bridge. Believe it or not, there are still places in the world that do this. 

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4 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Well you’ve highlighted the big problem, what do they do when the Walkers aren’t scary? The show’s becoming ‘Little House On The Prairie’  For danger they have to rely upon bad storms, crops dying, the occasional band of bad guys moseying through town or Judith falling down the well. 

There are a couple of new groups yet to be seen, so we’ll just have to wait and see what the show does with them.

How hokey was the writing about the hole Rick and Daryl just happened to fall into while they were fighting.  The hole looked like it had been perfectly dug out and wasn't muddy at all considering the huge amount of rain that was causing the stream to flood.  Are we to assume , oh, at of all the millions of other locations along the road , the hole just happened to be there and they fell into it?  And the horse just happened to show up???

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5 minutes ago, FishyJoe said:

So you carry stuff across. Easier than building a gigantic bridge. Believe it or not, there are still places in the world that do this. 

Sure, but not for packing loads larger than what an individual (or several, even) can carry on their back; not very practical when you’re transporting a few hundred pounds of foodstuffs to the Sanctuary, or hauling a ton or so of scrap iron back to the Hilltop forges.  Even if you radio-coordinate horses and wagons at either end of the bridge, you double the offload/reload times as well as tie up 2x the transport resources (horses, wagons, and people) in the process - and that’s in hostile territory, for each individual wagon load, every time.

IMHO expending the resources on the front end for a full-size bridge-building effort pays out in the long run in terms of speed, safety, and resources required for large-scale transport of goods between the settlements.  But as I said, that’s just my opinion - YMMV.

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31 minutes ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

How hokey was the writing about the hole Rick and Daryl just happened to fall into while they were fighting. 

I was fully expecting the recently broken levy to start pouring into the hole, just to add that extra bit of ‘Cheese’ to the scene.

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5 hours ago, JackONeill said:

How does making bullets, making ethanol and building bridges (and everything else he’s opined on) tie in?

Ethanol is easy: call it hooch or 'shine or find neighbors who make their own beer and wine.

Making bullets. Again easy because a lot of country folk know how to reuse bullet casings and load their own.

Bridge building (not at this level, but at basic level)  

Eugene liked to read.  He also has a memory and an ability to compartmentalize. I know a number of people he would enjoy talking with and it would be fun just to listen.

5 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

You could even rig a rope across to move the ferry with, which would eliminate the need for paddling. 

Funny you should mention the rope.  Several ferries near where I live depended on just that 'mechanism' for about a hundred years and they crossed rivers (real rivers with names).  Eventually they moved up to wire rope, but hemp was a major product in these parts.  What killed the ferries? Government regulations that required coast guard licenses the same as deep sea fishing boat captains needed.   

 

I must have nodded off when they were mixing the concrete that is used as base for the rebars, and when they set up the quarry for the limestone, etc. to make the cement, and for the kiln to heat the fixin's for the cement. Much less, made the blades to cut the rebar.

 

Their bridge was doomed to fail.  For morale, a lesser project would suffice, better than a  failed bridge which will be a monument to their inability to get it done.

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Personally?  Over either the Brokelyn Bridge or the rope ladder ideas, I’d have preferred an “Outlaw Josey Wales”-style manual-pull ferry.  Good capacity, good security - and if an operative component (like a rope) breaks, you’re not in immediate risk of drowning.  ;)

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On 10/29/2018 at 2:47 PM, OoohMaggie said:

So, the first Walking Dead F Bomb on a broadcast show, just a shame they had to give it to Mumbling Man!

I missed it, sure must have been a mealy mouth, lol. Who,what,when?

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I don't know what Jadis/Anne was trying to accomplish with the whole "A" or "B" thing.  She said something  about she was doing what she was doing to save her people.  Since Simon killed all of her people off, I fail to understand why the whole "A" or "B" thing is still in play.  Unless Jadis'/Anne's life is at risk, I don't know why she didn't just tell helicopter dude to screw himself.

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Even if I wanted to kep Negan alive, is him not wanting to eat lunch on one particular occasion because he's butt-hurt by Rick not being there to pay attention to him that big a fucking deal? I skip lunch all the time! Not even on purpose or to make a big dramatic point. I just forget about it or get busy doing something else or whatever! Yet, strangely, I get no special visits from Danai Gurira. I'm not saying I'm entitled to them, or that skipping lunch is any kind of huge Ghandi-esque whatchamathingy. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind having Danai join me for lunch whenever I was in a bad mood. Fuck you, Negan!

Edited by CletusMusashi
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21 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

And the horse just happened to show up???

Lol! Just another example of the "TWD Wish Fairy" as in whenever anyone really needs something right then - writing tablet, glass shard and now a horse - "Oh, gee. If only I had a... oh, there's one."

As for the bridge: I'm no engineer, but what about the old-fashioned covered bridges? Many of them have been standing for a century, and with that type, there could be gates put at each end to keep walkers off of it.  They don't have to construct another Golden Gate.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Lol! Just another example of the "TWD Wish Fairy" as in whenever anyone really needs something right then - writing tablet, glass shard and now a horse - "Oh, gee. If only I had a... oh, there's one."

There have been some classics over the years, early on in the Saviour period, our group desperately needed some batteries for the radios, whilst out doing something or other, a couple of our group came upon a parked Saviour pickup truck, the occupants were doing something I can’t recall, but on the back of the truck was a cardboard box, with ‘batteries’ written on the side, which they obviously liberated, what are the chances huh? I’ll have to try and find that scene, it was outrageous.

Edited by OoohMaggie
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2 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

on the back of the truck was a cardboard box, with ‘batteries’ written on the side,

LOL!  Kind of like Lori's box with "MORNING AFTER PILLS" written on it.

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3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

There have been some classics over the years, early on in the Saviour period, our group desperately needed some batteries for the radios, whilst out doing something or other, a couple of our group came upon a parked Saviour pickup truck, the occupants were doing something I can’t recall, but on the back of the truck was a cardboard box, with ‘batteries’ written on the side, which they obviously liberated, what are the chances huh? I’ll have to try and find that scene, it was outrageous.

Was that Rick, and Michonne came upon the  Saviors fishing and shooting the bull at some pond. They snuck up on the truck and grabbed some stuff.

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On 10/30/2018 at 4:27 PM, icemiser69 said:

I don't know what Jadis/Anne was trying to accomplish with the whole "A" or "B" thing.  She said something  about she was doing what she was doing to save her people.  Since Simon killed all of her people off, I fail to understand why the whole "A" or "B" thing is still in play.  Unless Jadis'/Anne's life is at risk, I don't know why she didn't just tell helicopter dude to screw himself.

She told him her peeps were dead and she had paid her dues. He stated in so many words she still owed them,and he wanted an A. Maybe that is why FG became an A so fast, lol. She tried to talk FG into running away with her and he stated no. So, I figure she knows what they are capable of doing and she will give them their last A. She initially started the conversation off by stating she knew they could hear her because she saw their chopper they night before. She asked him if he was taking Saviors.

3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

There have been some classics over the years, early on in the Saviour period, our group desperately needed some batteries for the radios, whilst out doing something or other, a couple of our group came upon a parked Saviour pickup truck, the occupants were doing something I can’t recall, but on the back of the truck was a cardboard box, with ‘batteries’ written on the side, which they obviously liberated, what are the chances huh? I’ll have to try and find that scene, it was outrageous.

I call it movie magic. 

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13 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

Was that Rick, and Michonne came upon the  Saviors fishing and shooting the bull at some pond. They snuck up on the truck and grabbed some stuff.

That sounds like the scene, I’ll have to find it.

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17 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

She told him her peeps were dead and she had paid her dues. He stated in so many words she still owed them,and he wanted an A.

More specifically: Jadis told Walkie Talkie Voice she wanted a heli pickup, and WTV asked what she had to offer in exchange.  Jadis somewhat hotly retorted she’d already supplied them with plenty, to which WTV replied Jadis had already been “compensated” (with provisions, apparently) for her earlier deliveries.

So, not exactly an issue of Jadis owing Them - more like They didn’t owe Jadis.

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51 minutes ago, Nashville said:

More specifically: Jadis told Walkie Talkie Voice she wanted a heli pickup, and WTV asked what she had to offer in exchange.  Jadis somewhat hotly retorted she’d already supplied them with plenty, to which WTV replied Jadis had already been “compensated” (with provisions, apparently) for her earlier deliveries.

So, not exactly an issue of Jadis owing Them - more like They didn’t owe Jadis.

So, if she wants them to come get her out of dodge she has to supply an A. 

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5 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

That sounds like the scene, I’ll have to find it.

That was right before they fell through that roof and found all that food at the school. The school with the carnival rides,games. Where Rick almost got killed looking at a deer, just like Coral. 

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On 10/29/2018 at 5:31 PM, mjc570 said:

Shadowfax!  Highlight of the episode for me,  Although I did appreciate the falling zombies, excuse me, walkers.

Hey - those were clearly "fallers"

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On 10/29/2018 at 6:53 PM, Dobian said:

I really don't get the point of the stupid bridge.  Where did all the infrastructure go that was there when the ZA began just eight years before?  Aren't there still usable bridges all over the place?  Aren't there better places to set up shop than an old mansion on a hill and abandoned manufacturing plant?  Why can't they just consolidate and take over a whole town and have houses for everybody?  A lot of this is based on the tired trope of enormous herds of zombies walking around.  After what, five years in show time I would think 99% of them would have fallen apart by this point, and the rest would just be milling about in formerly densely populated areas.  The options for where to set up ideally located communities should be far more varied than what is presented on this show.

 

Thank you!!! This is the issue that pops up in the back of my head every time I watch this show. It's been FIVE YEARS, maybe less (I'm counting by Judith's apparent age, which is definitely more reliable than Maggie's 3+years pregnancy), since the ZA and judging by the state of decay of most roads, bridges, buildings and everything else as we see on the show, one would think it happened at least 30-40 years ago. People in the real world still use roads, bridges, water works and so on that were built 2000 years ago, yet in Georgia every day is a struggle to build something from scratch that should already be there/fix something that should be still perfectly functioning. Also makes sense what you said about living arrangements and number of zombies still alive. They should really mostly be gone by now.

About the episode, I understand it's for dramatic effect but seriously, when Darryl was trying to get out of the hole while the zombies were clutching at his legs and Rick was already out, why didn't he just shoot the zombies to make Darryl's climb easier and less frantic? There were only 8 of them! (I counted!). It's just crazy, these interactions with the zombies. Sometimes one person can take on an army of 150 zombies by him/herself, sometimes they risk losing their life (or actually lose it) when confronted with just one zombie. I guess congruence is not one of the requirements the writing of this show has to fulfill.

 

On 10/29/2018 at 3:26 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, Rick, don't you know horses aren't like cars, and that you can take them off-road?

Not only this, but also... I mean, they could've run that way?

.5bdc590e25262_ScreenShot2018-11-02at15_02_59.thumb.png.e8a3b2937adc3cf34c6c343d0e2a16fc.png

 

Anyway, I would be okay with Rick dying, if not for the fact that I'm afraid if he (literally) went the way of all flesh we'd be stuck with another single parent pregnancy (Michonne), and it'd be The Widow 2 all over again for another 3 seasons.

Edited by stormy weather · Reason: typo
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On 10/29/2018 at 8:33 AM, JackONeill said:

I was wondering: Is there anybody left over from the original Alexandria? I know we talked about Francine last week. What about that big guy who sort of had the hots for Carol ... is he still around? I guess what’s her name who had the hots for Carl, even though if memory serves she wasn’t from Alexandria. (And BTW, I honestly can’t remember their names because there are too many characters, and most of them only show up about every 7th or 8th episode.) I know Aaron is still around, even though his boyfriend was killed. But they’re dismembering Aaron piece by piece. Pretty soon he’ll just be a trunk like the knight in the Monty Python movie.

So, basically, Rick and his people are like the crows. They’ve come in and taken the spoils of someone else’s hard work.

Nope.  They were recruited.  Aaron recruited them, and Deanna vetted them.

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6 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Nope.  They were recruited.  Aaron recruited them, and Deanna vetted them.

Although the groups from TWD and Fear do bear more than a passing resemblance to the  plague, they sweep into a community and leave those survivors, such as there are, in a scene of total devastation. 

Edited by OoohMaggie
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