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nodorothyparker

S09.E04: The Obliged

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Negan Lecter and Michonne Starlings scenes were cringy.

They missed a musical moment, but were probably too cheap to use “Down in a Hole”.  Which was some roadrunner shit. Meep meep.

now they have bored teen lookouts at the sanctuary.  Something tells me Negan is getting out.  Oh joy.  Well, I did enjoy his scenes on the Walkie talkies. 

Rick is all stabbed up on rebar, thrown from a horse.  Maybe Glenn’s widow will come by and save him this time. 

This is just more of the same shit minus the Grimes family 

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12 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

too much Negan and the scenes in the role were unintentionally hilarious.

I wouldn't have minded hilarious. They were just stupid and tedious and silly.

So, our hero, Ricky - defeated Shane and the Governor and Gareth and Negan and a zillion zombies. Rebar was his true enemy. Oh, Rick, don't you know horses aren't like cars, and that you can take them off-road?

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Sooo, they’re neatly trimming Negan’s hair which means the beard is an aesthetic choice?

Anyway, it’s episodes like this that makes me curse my mom for her Kenny Rogers Greatest Hits Album.

”You picked a fine time to leave me Lucille......”

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1 minute ago, bosawks said:

”You picked a fine time to leave me Lucille......”

I would have paid to hear that playing. We have a 50-year old man, beating his head against a wall in anguish over a piece of wood with barbed wire on it?

So is Michonne going to sit with him for his meals, to bribe him to eat with the pleasure of her company and allow him to con her? Interesting. I wonder what she'll do if Maggie gets there? I doubt the people there are going to take up arms against her to keep Negan safe - Negan, who does nothing but sit there and eat the food they broke their backs to grow.

I foolishly got my hopes up last week when the ep wasn't a 10 on the Terrible Scale. The only part that got me the least bit interested was watching Daryl and Rick get out of the hole.

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Rick Grimes- recorded in the history books as the first man after the apocalypse to build a bridge and try and get over it 

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3 minutes ago, raven said:

Yet Daryl and Rick will work out their differences because they fell into a plot hole together!!!  So very, very dumb.

What's really maddening is that I liked much of the dialogue and loved the line delivery from both actors.  I bought the argument they were having.  But again, they were standing in a giant hole.  A giant hole in the ground that they just never happened to notice before.

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So tired of Rick’s and Daryl’s dick swinging contests.  They never end well and they never realize what idiots they are.  Guess that’s all over now.  At least they didn’t lose a truck full of food or guns this time. 

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Just now, nodorothyparker said:

What's really maddening is that I liked much of the dialogue and loved the line delivery from both actors.  I bought the argument they were having.  But again, they were standing in a giant hole.  A giant hole in the ground that they just never happened to notice before.

I agree about the actors and the dialogue.  We FINALLY get scenes with these people together and talking but the show has to screw with it.

About the stupid hole, I kept thinking about Sigourney Weaver's character in Galaxy Quest "why is this here?? it makes no logical sense??"

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9 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

What's really maddening is that I liked much of the dialogue and loved the line delivery from both actors. 

I loved what Daryl had to say, telling stupid Rick the truth about how much of a selfish, narcissistic asshole he is. The fact they were doing this arguing at the bottom of a huge hole they stupidly both fell into kinda ruined the moment.

 

19 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

some low-rent production of Silence of the Lambs

A bargain-basement production! Gee, Michonne, during your little heart-to-heart with Negan, trying to get him to take nourishment (and that tomato sammich sure looked better than Daryl's Alpo one. Michonne even took care to garnish it with lettuce and dare I hope for mayo?) did she even flash on the image of Glenn lying there with his dome literally beaten into cheap hamburger?

Edited by AngelaHunter
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Any Negan scene just kills the momentum of any episode, especially his knock off Silence of the Lambs bit with Michonne. I dont buy for a second that she would give him the time of day, or that he is some kind of warrior therapist super villain. Dude is a trucked up gym teacher who loves violence and talking about his dick. Not exactly a criminal mastermind. 

The hole was so randomly places, and the zombies all falling in like synchronized swimmers, was less scary and more hilarious. I did actually like the stuff between Darryl and Rick, and was glad that Darryl finally told Rick that his obsession with keeping Negan and his lackeys around his stupid and selfish and clearly working out his issues with Carls death, to the detriment of everyone else, but it all being in that goofy pit really hurt the drama of the scenes. I do admit, I felt my heart warmed when Rick called him brother, even after their fight. 

I also love the implication that everyone who isnt Rick is pretty much ok with Maggie killing Negan. Their reaction seemed to be, in the words of Willy Wonka, "Wait stop, come back..." and that just cracks me up. If Negan turned up dead, I cant imagine anything but a cheer breaking out. Except for the asshole Saviors, who are, shockingly, still assholes! Amazing! 

Spoiler

So Rick leaves the show as he came, atop a pale horse. I gotta say, I was expecting a bit more of an epic end to our hero after all this than a piece of bridge. 

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31 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

What's really maddening is that I liked much of the dialogue and loved the line delivery from both actors.  I bought the argument they were having.  But again, they were standing in a giant hole.  A giant hole in the ground that they just never happened to notice before.

It is hard to swallow in the "Wrecked" show who is supposed to be funny, and they use it in a drama scene?

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10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I also love the implication that everyone who isnt Rick is pretty much ok with Maggie killing Negan.

Yeah, like that girl, whoever she is, when Rick radioed her to pass the word to not let Maggie in the gates without an escort and she's all like, "I'll relay that right away" and then drops the radio, rolls her eyes and goes back to reading her magazine. Sorry, Rick, but to take a line from Star Trek's Uhura, "Communications are...out."

Edited by AngelaHunter
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40 minutes ago, raven said:

Michonne stopping to talk to him

OK, is no one pointing out that Michonne is wasting many, many prime working outdoor hours while she writes and dithers?  Other folks are out with crows in their tomatoes, she could be saving the tomato crop (or might even discover that you pick them green, they ripen on screened in porches where the birds can't get them.

When time is of the essence, it shouldn't be wasted doing things that can be done at night, even by the light of a burning fireplace.  Good enough for Abe Lincoln = good enough for Michonne.

6 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

A giant hole in the ground

which will become a part of a Walking Dead tour through Georgia.

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I am fed up with tomatoes and I am fed up with this show.

 

It is OK in the comic books to live in mediaval age but it does not work on TV for me.  Everybody is so dumb and the writers think we are.

 

Michonne has a 300$ bucks faucet that still exist in the apocalypse but all the rest vanished.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.

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Reminder: This thread is for discussion of the episode.   DO NOT talk about spoilers here.   That includes what may or may not be in the comics or news about casting comings and goings.  Discussion of that can be found in the Spoilers and Speculation thread.

YES, this includes TV promos.

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Sad about rick.. I'm with Jesus.. They shoulda killed Negan right off the bat.. But that was 18 months ago.. Now sadly there are or were other things to consider..and as a symbol a defeated and captured negan isn't so bad... Carol made a good point too.. Most of the saviors while not loving working aide by side with people who killed their friends( seeing as they lost the war they def had more casualties caused by our heroes)  they def don't wanna go back to negan.. And for those who may have been dreaming of a return to glory let the fate of their fallen and fallen leader remind them of what happens when you go up against our ppl... 

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13 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Other folks are out with crows in their tomatoes, she could be saving the tomato crop (or might even discover that you pick them green, they ripen on screened in porches where the birds can't get them.

I'm surprised no one thought of moseying on down to the local Home Depot and picking up a few rolls of netting, since I doubt they've been cleaned out. Actually if this were real, birds would be the least of their worries. Insects would be decimating their veg gardens.

15 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

When time is of the essence, it shouldn't be wasted doing things that can be done at night, even by the light of a burning fireplace. 

Oil lamps give off a lot of light. I'm always able to read by them when the power goes out.

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18 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

down to the local Home Depot

which is headquartered in Atlanta or to Lowes which is near Charlotte.

Which begs the question: why not settle next to their master warehouse?

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Fuck you Derle. You got Glenn killed and you have the nerve to ask Rick if he remembers all Glenn did for Rick. FFS. This show continues to try my patience with the Derle-always-gets-a-free-pass nonsense.  I wish that dirt pit had swallowed dirt bag Derle whole.

In other news, I wish Merle would come back and kick Derle's ass again.

And yeah Negan does not deserve the time of day from Michonne. Do NOT like them insinuating he's getting inside her head. Fuck you Show.

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It's almost jarring seeing Norman Reedus actually act again.  I mean, sure, he's not exactly a thespian or anything, but it's nice that the show has remembered he can do more then just grunt.

I also love how almost all of the other non-Rick characters are fine with Maggie's need to kill Negan.  I don't think the show wants me to feel that way, but I'm certainly rooting for her to finish the job.  Especially if that means less scenes like the one tonight.  What a waste of Michonne/Danai Gurira's time.  Just another tale of a villain claiming that a hero is just like them and a show wanting us to believe he is right on some levels, but nope.  She might have suffered loss and done some bad stuff, but she's never killed for power and she certainly has never enjoyed as much as he does/did.  You can kindly fuck off on that front, show.

Looks like war is back on the table, folks!  Rick really was not prepared for the groups to clash, even though almost everyone else was and tried to warn him.

Rick gets impaled by two pieces of rebar.  Ouch!

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This was the most ridiculously plotted episode ever.

20 minutes of Negan talking.  20 minutes of Rick and Daryl fighting in a hole.

The only thing I liked was Rick's gorgeous white horse and you all know what happened with that.

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Been debating whether TPTB will give Rick an "out" by having him caught by another group or even taken away on the helicopter (against his will) so Lincoln could return to the show later if he wants; that's looking less likely although a twist is never totally off the table.  On the other hand not sure having him caught on that rebar at the end was as suspenseful to the viewers as the writers may have thought.  Not from spoilers or previews or anything just the last two minutes of the episode......all I could think was if the scene continues and he dies right there he'd end up 100% eaten like Laurie and nobody would ever know what happened to him and of all the ways this could play out there's no way he's going out like that.  If they wanted us to bite our nails until next week that may have worked with mid-range character that we care about, not a main player but not a red shirt, someone like Jesus or Aaron but not with a top billed actor whether they're staying on the show or not.

Why is Neegen always in shadow?  Are they waiting to do some big scene where we see his no sharp objects allowed prison beard and his shocking huge scar from where Rick cut is throat?  Because if they think that'll be a big special reveal for the viewers and we just can't wait until he comes out of his jail cell shadow............they are NOT reading comment boards like these and far overestimate our feelings for the character.

One quick question from the episode - all spoilers, comic book plot and everything else aside and just from this episode..... Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)?   Or did I hear wrong?   From a flashback episode (S4-E9) she had one son only didn't she?

 

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

It's almost jarring seeing Norman Reedus actually act again.  I mean, sure, he's not exactly a thespian or anything, but it's nice that the show has remembered he can do more then just grunt.

Anyone else see him in Hawaii Five-0 Season 1, Episode 1?     He speaks with an Irish accent!  (And of course with short hair so you actually remember he has eyes)

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I'm not watching though I check a reaction video on youtube to see a little what's going on. Was it just me at the end, when Rick was impaled, imagining his radio would go off and we would hear 'Hey you. Dumb ass.' in Glenn's voice? And how badly was that metal placed? They couldn't at least pretend as if the rod actually impaled him?

9 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

One quick question from the episode - all spoilers, comic book plot and everything else aside and just from this episode..... Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)?   Or did I hear wrong?   From a flashback episode (S4-E9) she had one son only didn't she?

Pretty sure she counts Coral as her son too, hence plural.

Edited by Smad
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7 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

One quick question from the episode - all spoilers, comic book plot and everything else aside and just from this episode..... Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)?   Or did I hear wrong?   From a flashback episode (S4-E9) she had one son only didn't she?

 

Yes. She was referring both to Corl and Andre (she also said "my daughter" when referring to Judith).

 

Two episodes ago they were complaining of a food shortage, yet they waste good grub on Negan (and he ends up wasting it....argh!!). The bread on that sandwich looked like mechanically sliced store-bought stuff, not like anything they concocted by hand with their home-grown wheat.

 

And I can't keep track of so many characters anymore....how and why did they end up with a tent city? Who are those renegade Saviors? Who was the tween girl on the walkie-talkie? Who was Nora, the crow lady? Have we met her before? They're going have to give these characters numbered jerseys so that I can keep track of who's who and from which camp they hail.

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7 hours ago, enoughcats said:

OK, is no one pointing out that Michonne is wasting many, many prime working outdoor hours while she writes and dithers?  Other folks are out with crows in their tomatoes, she could be saving the tomato crop (or might even discover that you pick them green, they ripen on screened in porches where the birds can't get them.

When time is of the essence, it shouldn't be wasted doing things that can be done at night, even by the light of a burning fireplace.  Good enough for Abe Lincoln = good enough for Michonne.

which will become a part of a Walking Dead tour through Georgia.

You can also make green tomato pickles.  If they have anything for pickling.

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I didn't see negan getting in michonne's head... She knows how important it is that he stay alive.. And rot and suffer and be a symbol of the saviors defeat... So a sandwich a day isn't that bad.. It also seems like the Alexandria ppl aren't really sweating him being alive either... I saw michonne's try to get him to eat... push back on his bullshit assessment of their sameness and then laugh when she realized that the entire( or maybe majority)  point of his strike and talk was to get to see lucille.. Which she shot down... Daryl bringing up Glenn made me wanna throw a brick at my tv... Daryl who's macho man bullshit helped get Glenn brained.. Daryl who almost lost the war with that truck bullshit... Ppl like carol and Maggie can complain about negan being alive and pissed off Daryl I don't give the same latitude...  Also the way he told Rick to leave the bridge shows he doesn't get what it is rick is trying to do.. Which is a reason I think rick kept pushing so hard... He could see his ppl not trying.. And even worse not trying and complaining that it wasn't working... 

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2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

And I can't keep track of so many characters anymore....how and why did they end up with a tent city? Who are those renegade Saviors? Who was the tween girl on the walkie-talkie?

I thought that was the young girl from Oceanside, the one who was so aggressive towards Tara when Tara turned up there 1-2 seasons ago.

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It really annoys me when an otherwise smart character falls for the manipulations of the evil villain.  I know Michonne thinks she's immune to Negan's blather, but obviously his words are chewing away at her brain.  As soon as his mouth opened she should have shoved the sandwich in it and walked away.  Or better yet, take a bite of the sandwich herself and walk away.

The zombies cascading into the pit was probably the funniest thing on this show in a long time.  Also funny was the girl reading the magazine who decided not to bother with Maggie.

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)? 

I love that she calls Carl and Judith her children.

Edited by Haleth
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2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

 

And I can't keep track of so many characters anymore....how and why did they end up with a tent city? Who are those renegade Saviors? Who was the tween girl on the walkie-talkie? Who was Nora, the crow lady? Have we met her before? They're going have to give these characters numbered jerseys so that I can keep track of who's who and from which camp they hail.

I was wondering: Is there anybody left over from the original Alexandria? I know we talked about Francine last week. What about that big guy who sort of had the hots for Carol ... is he still around? I guess what’s her name who had the hots for Carl, even though if memory serves she wasn’t from Alexandria. (And BTW, I honestly can’t remember their names because there are too many characters, and most of them only show up about every 7th or 8th episode.) I know Aaron is still around, even though his boyfriend was killed. But they’re dismembering Aaron piece by piece. Pretty soon he’ll just be a trunk like the knight in the Monty Python movie.

So, basically, Rick and his people are like the crows. They’ve come in and taken the spoils of someone else’s hard work.

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What's left of Aaron is also what's left of the original Alexandria crew, or at least of anyone we might recognize because they had a line three seasons ago or because the WD Wiki identifies them as such.  Tobin bought it last season during the whole walker blood infected weapons and bullets debacle where we were expected to ignore that we'd been watching these people get blood everywhere with nary a concern for seasons.

To be fair, it didn't sound like the original ASZhats did all that much hard work either beyond throwing up the walls with the supports hilariously on the wrong sides.  We were told from the start it was a model self-sustaining community that they just happened to be plunked down in when the initial outbreak happened.  Still, yeah Rick and company did basically move in and take it over as the original inhabitants got killed under his management.

The tent city is the work camp for the bridge they've been building.  Aside from mouthy Savior Jed who really shouldn't be alive at this point after multiple threats and attempts to kill Carol, none of these characters are people I remember seeing before.  They come from the big bag o' random extras, which are necessary for filling out scenes to show us there are indeed communities there, but none of us know who any of them are.  I can mostly only pin down which community they belong to by their appearance in scenes with one of the main characters.  Which is going to be a problem for the show going forward.

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I have always heartily embraced the idea that if we are going to have wars (which I’m against) then both sides should sit down ahead of time and pick a color for a uniform. Of course, thanks to the much-used term “red shirts,” no one will pick red. And, I suppose, no one would want yellow, unless their leader is Col. Sanders. (Yes, I stretched for that one.) 

And Daryl’s called dibs on the color he’d want: mud brown.

Edited by JackONeill
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I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

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34 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I have always heartily embraced the idea that if we are going to have wars (which I’m against) then both sides should sit down ahead of time and pick a color for a uniform. Of course, thanks to the much-used term “red shirts,” no one will pick red. And, I suppose, no one would want yellow, unless their leader is Col. Sanders. (Yes, I stretched for that one.) 

I appreciated the Kingdom for helpfully visually coding their people with their Sports Authority armor.  I know that's not why they wore it, but that was the end result.  In battle scenes last season when I had no idea who anyone was or where, I could at least pick them out.  It isn't nearly as helpful for individual members to keep wearing it now that there are only like four of their fighters left.

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So the big takeaway from this episode is that after eight years Rick still hasn't learned that riding horses around hordes of zombies is never a good idea.

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12 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Terrible episode, too much Negan and the scenes in the role were unintentionally hilarious.

I agree.  The first 3 episodes were better than most anything from the last 2 seasons, but this was a step back.   The only part I really liked was Daryl finally having it out with Rick.

The Carol I know would have shot the Savior between the eyes, instead of letting things go any farther.   

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

So the big takeaway from this episode is that after eight years Rick still hasn't learned that riding horses around hordes of zombies is never a good idea.

Especially when Glen isn't around to save you anymore.  

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9 hours ago, bosawks said:

Belly up to the rebar, Rick.....

I need this embroidered on a pillow.

 

1 hour ago, Ocean Chick said:

I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

Hi-yo  Silver!

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11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yeah, like that girl, whoever she is, when Rick radioed her to pass the word to not let Maggie in the gates without an escort and she's all like, "I'll relay that right away" and then drops the radio, rolls her eyes and goes back to reading her magazine. Sorry, Rick, but to take a line from Star Trek's Uhura, "Communications are...out."

Yes, the nearly universal, passive-aggressive rebellion against Rick, was one of the few good things about the episode.  

5 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

One quick question from the episode - all spoilers, comic book plot and everything else aside and just from this episode..... Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)?   Or did I hear wrong?   From a flashback episode (S4-E9) she had one son only didn't she?

Andre was her first son.  Coral was her second, adopted, "son".  I think she also referred to Judith as her daughter.   I have no issue with her viewing Shane's Rick's kids as her own, after all they had been through together. 

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1 hour ago, Ocean Chick said:

I want to know where that horse came from - the one that was so handily waiting for Rick when he got out of the plot hole, all nicely saddled and bridled. Because Rick left his horse back at camp when he got on the cycle with Daryl. Do horses just randomly walk around in the midst of walker hoards just waiting for someone to ride them?  Or was Rick’s horse a tracker horse who found his master?

I'm not sure, but I think the horse fled the construction camp when the fighting started.  

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12 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

What's really maddening is that I liked much of the dialogue and loved the line delivery from both actors.  I bought the argument they were having.  But again, they were standing in a giant hole.  A giant hole in the ground that they just never happened to notice before.

For a brief few seconds, I thought they had somehow returned to the Woodbury area where the Governor used to trap walkers in holes like that.  

C'mon, Kang, you can do better (I hope) or at least be more original.

Maybe next week we'll get another well walker. 

Rhetorical question, but why would anyone at Alexandria give a single fuck as to whether Negan eats?  

Bonus for me:  No Tara in this episode.  

I'm presuming from the previews that (not sure if preview comments are considered spoilers but just in case...)

Spoiler

Rick will die a hero's death by saving the bridge and thus humanity.  

I'm finding that scenario somewhat disappointing.  

Oh well, I'm sticking with this shit until the bloody end, no matter what direction the series goes.  

I remember back in the day watching every episode 2-3 times during the week, looking for things I had missed and just because I enjoyed it so damned much.

Now I watch the episode once and that's it.  Hell, most of the time I forget what even happened in the previous episode.  How things have changed.  

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5 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Did Michonne say last night "My SONS" (plural)? 

As has been said, she was including Carl there, just as she called Judith "My daughter." As Judge Judy would say, "She's not your daughter. She's your boyfriend's kid." Or Shane and Lori's kid. Whatever. She's utterly cute either way.

21 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Hi-yo  Silver!

OMG, when that white horse appeared that is exactly what entered my head.

 

39 minutes ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

We are.  The viewers are "The Obliged".    We, the long-suffering fans of the show that was, are obliged to see this thing through the bitter and boring end.

Agree. It seems not even the worst punishments and insults to our intelligence can make us stop watching. Are we really going to be expected to believe that Rick could pull away from that massive stake of rusted rebar and live without EMTs on the spot and emergency surgery?

2 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Rhetorical question, but why would anyone at Alexandria give a single fuck as to whether Negan eats?  

Michonne does because her boyfriend wants it that way.

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