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The Conners Past and Present

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3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Into today's job market, a two year degree makes more sense because a four year degree does guarantee success anymore unless you are going for something in the medical field. A lot of community colleges have programs leading to four year degree by taking classes at night or on-line. If Harris wants to attend college, she should not expect Dan to pay for it.

 

She didn’t expect him to pay for it.   She politely (for Harris lol) hedged the topic and he went with it.   It’s ok for parents and grandparents to buy things for their kids if they are able to and want to.   My dad paid for my college and I paid for my grad school.  

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If he had the money, it should go for his retirement instead of paying for Harris's college. There is no excuse for her to get a job, go to a community college for the first two years, apply for financial and look at scholarships. Having Darlene and her two kids living with him as already stretched his budget and added to his stress of trying to keep his head above water financial wise.

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HS students in our district have the opportunity to take generals at the local community college for free while in HS.  Instead it seems that Harris skips class and hangs out in the bomb shelter.  

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7 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

Instead it seems that Harris skips class and hangs out in the bomb shelter.  

I love the way TV shows have high school kids mess around, get lousy grades and basically have no real interest in their educations - until it comes time for college.  In the real world you probably aren't anymore motivated to go on to higher education than you were to go to high school but if you do want to go, well, the consequence of not going to class is you don't go to university unless bank of Mom and Dad eases your way.  

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3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

If he had the money, it should go for his retirement instead of paying for Harris's college. There is no excuse for her to get a job, go to a community college for the first two years, apply for financial and look at scholarships. Having Darlene and her two kids living with him as already stretched his budget and added to his stress of trying to keep his head above water financial wise.

 

He thought he might be able to retire and help pay for her college, and help pay for Mark’s art course.   It was actually a really sweet scene IMO.  Also I think any added financial burden of having Darlene and her kids living with him is erased by the joy they bring him.   Like in the last episode, he tells Darlene to go live her life but once she leaves the room we see he is upset about it.   

Since he didnt get the big payout, she probably will do the community college route first, barring any other bad life choices-  let’s see if Harris can make it through high school and college without getting married or pregnant lol.  

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On 1/25/2019 at 7:14 PM, bigskygirl said:

With two mortgages, the bike shop on its last leg, Roseanne losing her job at the restaurant, and two more kids at home, she could have applied for financial aid as a hardship case even at the local community college.

In the intervening years after Darlene and Becky left home, both Dan and Roseanne could have trained for in demand careers like plumbing/electric/healthcare.  But they did not.  Becky could have done the same, but did not.  

I will say it again.  They were never poor.  My trailer dwelling neighbor with the nine kids managed to get her RN while working full time and commuting 50 miles each way.   

I don’t know anyone I went to school with who is as bad off as the Connors, and they all live in small farming communities.  

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I think we need to remember that these are sitcom characters, not real people.  They are pretty much where sitcom characters in a show about the working (lower) middle class should be.  Repeating the same mistakes, making bad choices, living in the moment.  

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On 1/25/2019 at 1:44 PM, Bastet said:

They never specify Mark's job, but given his experience and the money they're offering him, I assumed it was another mechanic position.  Mark tells Becky his friend called from Minneapolis, saying there's an opening where he works and the job is his if he wants it.  It pays three times what he made working for Dan, and they'd let him join the union.

Which is why I never understood why Mark was suddenly fired; that job sounded pretty secure. I know Sarah Chalke was joining the show and they brought Mark and Becky back to Lanford (although it always bugged me that they were shown in Sarah's first episode to be merely visiting, only to be living there one episode later by Thanksgiving--and I don't think the jump from a temporary visit to moving in was ever explained, either), but couldn't they have just had Mark find out there was a similar job in or around Lanford, which meant they would be near the family again? Whatever rebellion Mark may have had when he was younger, he was shown over and over again to be a hard worker, so for him to be suddenly fired/skipping his trade school classes behind Becky's back to go to the Lobo rang very false to me. 

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22 minutes ago, UYI said:

Which is why I never understood why Mark was suddenly fired; that job sounded pretty secure. I know Sarah Chalke was joining the show and they brought Mark and Becky back to Lanford (although it always bugged me that they were shown in Sarah's first episode to be merely visiting, only to be living there one episode later by Thanksgiving--and I don't think the jump from a temporary visit to moving in was ever explained, either), but couldn't they have just had Mark find out there was a similar job in or around Lanford, which meant they would be near the family again? Whatever rebellion Mark may have had when he was younger, he was shown over and over again to be a hard worker, so for him to be suddenly fired/skipping his trade school classes behind Becky's back to go to the Lobo rang very false to me. 

That's what I hated when they brought Sarah as Becky. In that same episode when Sarah's Becky learns that Mark skipped those trade school classes. Becky #2 told Mark that she didn't want him to feel useless/worthless. Becky #2 let Roseanne put those ideas in her head, let Roseanne tell her what to do to I guess handle Mark.(one of the reasons why I never liked Roseanne's character)

I didn't like that both Becky and Mark's personalities took a giant turn when they were brought back. 

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1 hour ago, RocknRollZombie said:

That's what I hated when they brought Sarah as Becky. In that same episode when Sarah's Becky learns that Mark skipped those trade school classes. Becky #2 told Mark that she didn't want him to feel useless/worthless. Becky #2 let Roseanne put those ideas in her head, let Roseanne tell her what to do to I guess handle Mark.(one of the reasons why I never liked Roseanne's character)

I didn't like that both Becky and Mark's personalities took a giant turn when they were brought back. 

Right and when Mark came back, we finally got all the background on why he wanted to get far away from his family as much as possible when they pushed David on the show. When he came back, they all acted like their dad ran out on them and not their mother was an abusive bitch. Even when they thought David left to go live with his mother. Seriously, no one didn't go: "Wait, why why would he go live with her when he was ready to run away?" Nope, nah it was all their dad's fault and those extra two younger siblings they had? Who are they?

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41 minutes ago, readster said:

Right and when Mark came back, we finally got all the background on why he wanted to get far away from his family as much as possible when they pushed David on the show. When he came back, they all acted like their dad ran out on them and not their mother was an abusive bitch. Even when they thought David left to go live with his mother. Seriously, no one didn't go: "Wait, why why would he go live with her when he was ready to run away?" Nope, nah it was all their dad's fault and those extra two younger siblings they had? Who are they?

Their names are Lisa and Nikki, just in case anyone forgot. :) 

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David suffered verbal/phsyical abuse by his mother. Mark, he was kicked out at 16 by their parents. I'm sure David had Mark to defend/protect him when they lived under the same roof before Mark was kicked out. It never stated that Mark wanted to be far away from his folks but we learned that Mark's realationship with their parents  was more distant than David's. In the first eps of S5 Mark mentioned that his parents gave him furniture for his & Becky's apartment. S8 the wedding ep is where we learn of how Mark was treated by their parents.

I mean yeah Mark may have been the big brother bully to David.David literally says everything that Mark did to him when they were growing up,but they cared for each other. They know that one of them had to sadly endure their crappy parents for a few more years,before they met the conners. Both brothers found their safe haven within the conners.

Side note: I loved when Mark realized/admitted it to Dan during his break up with Becky,that Becky is the only good thing in his life that he didn't want to lose.

Edited by RocknRollZombie
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10 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I mean yeah Mark may have been the big brother bully to David.David literally says everything that Mark did to him when they were growing up,but they cared for each other. They know that one of them had to sadly endure their crappy parents for a few more years,before they met the conners. Both brothers found their safe haven within the conners.

Side note: I loved when Mark realized/admitted it to Dan during his break up with Becky,that Becky is the only good thing in his life that he didn't want to lose.

It also gave more depth to Mark as a result. His situation with Rosanne at his appartment back in season 5 rang more of: "Well, I care about Becky and you really don't know my life." Which was cliche, however when Darelene finally came clean to her parents on what David were going through. They pretty much saw why Mark and David were so screwed up. I do kind of wish Lisa and Nikki did show up if there is another season. Be interesting if they came up very adjusted and were the type of kids that went: "Our crappy parents did not DEFINE our lives." Be a nice change for once. 

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Honestly I think one of my favorite David/Mark scenes is still on David’s wedding day David wanting his parents to be there and Mark getting pissed at  him and outright calling a The Conners their parents now.  And then doing David’s tie and When David asks where he learned how to tie a tie  Mark said it was the only thing their father ever taught him and now he taught David so now David didn’t need him anymore.   

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On 1/26/2019 at 1:32 PM, CherryAmes said:

I love the way TV shows have high school kids mess around, get lousy grades and basically have no real interest in their educations - until it comes time for college.  In the real world you probably aren't anymore motivated to go on to higher education than you were to go to high school but if you do want to go, well, the consequence of not going to class is you don't go to university unless bank of Mom and Dad eases your way.  

That’s what her mom did and it worked out for her.  I found Darlene going to college they way she did unrealistic at that time.  Have not seen that story in a long time so not sure my opinion would change. 

It would be nice to see Fred and Andy again if they exist     Even though Jackie and Fred did not have anything in common years ago maybe they do now.  And Fred like Bev 😂 

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I've been rewatching season one and Roseanne's acting is painful to watch.  She did improve but this season it was just so bad.

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I saw most of the episodes of the classic Roseanne series, but I have yet to watch this new reboot. I think now's a good time, since it's on Hulu, otherwise I will be terribly behind on the whole "franchise".

Edited by Virtual
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Thanks. I am sure I will, especially if Dan and Darlene get a good amount of screen time (I enjoyed them best on the original show).

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On 2/6/2019 at 9:43 PM, Virtual said:

Thanks. I am sure I will, especially if Dan and Darlene get a good amount of screen time (I enjoyed them best on the original show).

It's essentially Darlene's show. She seems on the verge of tears for most of the first season, though,  which kind of got old. I thought her writing on this season improved a lot.

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3 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I would love to know how Lanford got a Trader Joe's. And how David got a job there -- my understanding is it's really rather competitive. 

I'm curious about that, too. They are popping up more and more these days, but there are certain areas--like where I grew up in rural Maryland--that I don't expect to ever have them (or Whole Foods, for that matter). Lanford supposedly being in the suburban Chicago area, I guess, makes it more likely for one to be there, and there has been talk in the past of the town being divided up between the poor and the rich (er), but if it were a more blue collar suburb I would think it would be less likely to have one. Who knows. 

2 hours ago, sd dude said:

Hmm.  Is the transformation of Roseanne (uproarious sitcom) into the Connors (light-hearted family drama) twenty years later, the 21st century equivalent of The Brady Bunch (zany sitcom) transforming into The Bradys (light-hearted family drama) twenty years later?  God, I hope not.

More like a painfully-paced drama with an inexplicable laugh track. I love The Brady Bunch almost as much as this show, but...yeah, they were in over their heads there. Roseanne/The Conners at least has a tradition of balancing comedy with serious issues.

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21 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

But Roseanne shifted from more “real” to outlandish Barney fife comedy it’s self. 

At least Wacky!Jackie isn't as much of a thing now as it used to be. 

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1 hour ago, UYI said:

At least Wacky!Jackie isn't as much of a thing now as it used to be. 

Does she live with them? Every scene she was in, she just kind of materialized like a Greek chorus.

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3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Does she live with them?

No, she lives with Bev. So yes, she lives with them.

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I spend too much time figuring out bedrooms and the new bathroom set up to pay attention to plot sometimes. I'm always trying to figure out the rooms. Which reminds me, have we seen the basement? Maybe Harris?

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50 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

I spend too much time figuring out bedrooms and the new bathroom set up to pay attention to plot sometimes. I'm always trying to figure out the rooms. Which reminds me, have we seen the basement? Maybe Harris?

Harris currently shares a room with Mark.  

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11 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

I spend too much time figuring out bedrooms and the new bathroom set up to pay attention to plot sometimes. I'm always trying to figure out the rooms. Which reminds me, have we seen the basement? Maybe Harris?

We saw the basement last season when it flooded.

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

We saw the basement last season when it flooded.

Oh yeahhhhhh. Thank you Peaches! I had forgotten about that already!

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5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Although, on the flip side, the decision to make them separated/divorced initially in the reboot was probably largely based on his unavailability full-time.

Probably accurate, and it was a poor decision on their part that they are now stuck with.  They could have addressed David’s absence with everything from ‘ you just missed David, he went to the store’ every episode to ‘David always dreamed of joining  the Peace  corps so I told him to sign up for a two year stint and then I lost my job’. 

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Roseanne stopped being the charming comedy about a blue collar family around the 3rd or 4th season and became the "Roseanne Barr is perfect and treats everyone like crap" show. The Conners is in many ways truer to the original concept. Comedy has changed and the new show reflects that.

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1 hour ago, bobalina said:

Roseanne stopped being the charming comedy about a blue collar family around the 3rd or 4th season and became the "Roseanne Barr is perfect and treats everyone like crap" show. 

This. I stopped watching after a while when Roseanne became almost mythical in her rage. It totally lost the point, IMO. 

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2 hours ago, bobalina said:

Roseanne stopped being the charming comedy about a blue collar family around the 3rd or 4th season and became the "Roseanne Barr is perfect and treats everyone like crap" show. The Conners is in many ways truer to the original concept. Comedy has changed and the new show reflects that.

I stopped watching halfway around the 5th season and then only resumed watching when Becky & Mark we’re back (even though I didn’t like Sarah chalke as Becky.)

Honestly The show became way to Darlene/Roseanne focused halfway through S5 and the rest of the later seasons.

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On 10/4/2019 at 4:21 PM, mythoughtis said:

it was a poor decision on their part that they are now stuck with.  They could have addressed David’s absence with everything from ‘ you just missed David, he went to the store’ every episode to ‘David always dreamed of joining  the Peace  corps so I told him to sign up for a two year stint and then I lost my job’. 

The Peace Corps idea is ingenious. I agree completely that David's ten-year desertion was a terrible solution to the problems of Johnny Galecki's absence and the need to force Darlene and kids back into the house.

The show knows we know. And it's counting on the audience to retain our affection for David and respect for Darlene. To do so, we may have to allow the show to have it both ways. To glance away, tactfully, whenever the show invokes that dumb backstory, and to imagine that, two years ago, David and Darlene were in an ongoing, trial separation, for one of several realistic reasons.

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What is Dan's job? Or is he retired? I know he was a supervisor or foreman at the city garage before the won the lottery.

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Bear with me here...

What if Andy is like Crystal's 1st husband Sonny?  Not in a bridge, but something so tragic that it can't be mentioned.  Something that even thinking about mentioning it freaks everyone out because it sends Jackie over the edge.  Of course, the massive flaw in this theory is that it could have been mentioned at least off hand when she was dealing with Roseanne's death.  Or if he's not dead that he chose to live with Fred at some point & again, it's so tragic & sends Jackie in such a bad place that no one can mention it.  Flaw with that would be that Bev WOULD mention it. 

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I just wish they’d categorically state what is and isn’t canon. Jackie was heavily pregnant while owning the Lunchbox, yet no mention of Andy. Leon bought Bev’s share, yet somehow she owns the building.
 

The whole reboot premise is built on the idea that fans of the old show want to see these characters again, yet they ignore the fact that at least 90% of the people currently watching used to watch the original and know the characters and what happened. Drives me nuts. 

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I can't recall - has Leon made an appearance on the reboot?  Or has he been even mentioned?  If not, then perhaps he doens't exist in the reboot universe.  I know Nancy has been on.

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17 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I can't recall - has Leon made an appearance on the reboot?  Or has he been even mentioned?

Nope.

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15 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Maybe he was part of Rosanne's "story".

He pre-dated the lottery season - do you remember now at what point the original Roseanne stopped being the original Roseanne and started being the story Roseanne supposedly wrote?  For some reason I thought it was everything after Darlene's wedding when we're told Dan actually died.  But it's confusing because stuff got changed that had to have happened before the wedding.  Headache time!  Anyway can't blame the powers that be for picking and choosing what to include in The Connors!  

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11 minutes ago, Homily said:

He pre-dated the lottery season - do you remember now at what point the original Roseanne stopped being the original Roseanne and started being the story Roseanne supposedly wrote?  For some reason I thought it was everything after Darlene's wedding when we're told Dan actually died.  But it's confusing because stuff got changed that had to have happened before the wedding.  Headache time!  Anyway can't blame the powers that be for picking and choosing what to include in The Connors!  

Supposedly it was Darlene's wedding, because she said Dan died.  But then she said that David acutally got with Becky, Mark got with Darlene, and Jackie was gay (and possibly some other stuff I'm forgetting).

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12 minutes ago, Homily said:

He pre-dated the lottery season - do you remember now at what point the original Roseanne stopped being the original Roseanne and started being the story Roseanne supposedly wrote?  For some reason I thought it was everything after Darlene's wedding when we're told Dan actually died.  But it's confusing because stuff got changed that had to have happened before the wedding.  Headache time!  Anyway can't blame the powers that be for picking and choosing what to include in The Connors!  

Leon was her boss at Rodbell's way before the Lunchbox. To me the show went to shit as soon as they went to Disney World. Dan quit his job at the City to take the temp job at the prison. And they spent all his severance/pension money.

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Just now, peacheslatour said:

Leon was her boss at Rodbell's way before the Lunchbox. To me the show went to shit as soon as they went to Disney World. Dan quit his job at the City to take the temp job at the prison. And they spent all his severance/pension money.

Yes he was, but so much changed in the series final crappy season(s) that you can't count on that being part of the story.  I could buy Andy never being mentioned if they were sticking with the "Jackie is gay" thing, but she's dating men, so that's out.  I stopped trying to figure it out.  Too confusing.

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Just now, funky-rat said:

Yes he was, but so much changed in the series final crappy season(s) that you can't count on that being part of the story.  I could buy Andy never being mentioned if they were sticking with the "Jackie is gay" thing, but she's dating men, so that's out.  I stopped trying to figure it out.  Too confusing.

I hate to be "that" guy but I don't give two shits about Andy and Gerry. If they never mention them it won't bother me at all.

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There is no one point in the original series at which we switch to the book version; Roseanne wrote the story of her life, changing along the way things she didn't like about it but couldn't change in real life.  In "reality", Becky was with David and Darlene was with Mark, but Roseanne thought the girls would each be better off with the other brother, so she wrote them that way.  Going back even further, Jackie had always told Roseanne she was gay, but she wrote her with men.  So it's ALL the book, the whole original series, and some of what happened in the book is the same as it was in real life, but some of it is different; most of what's different comes in season nine, as her life after Dan's death is what she re-wrote the most.

It doesn't matter, though, because the revival season undoes all that, so the reality as revealed in the original season finale isn't actually reality.  Dan's alive, Jackie's straight, Becky was with Mark/Darlene was with David, etc.  But Andy doesn't seem to exist and a few other things are different.  So most of what happened in seasons one through eight is canon in this revival/spin-off universe, but not everything - and there are things we don't yet know for sure if they've carried over.

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2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I hate to be "that" guy but I don't give two shits about Andy and Gerry. If they never mention them it won't bother me at all.

I don't either.  I thought Gerry was a really stupid sub-plot, and then it got stupider when they stopped talking about him, even in the show's original run.  And they never did much with Andy either.

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What if Andy is like Crystal's 1st husband Sonny?  Not in a bridge, but something so tragic that it can't be mentioned.  Something that even thinking about mentioning it freaks everyone out because it sends Jackie over the edge. 

It's a nice hand-wave for the viewer to imagine just to get past it but it doesn't really excuse the show's refusal to address it. 

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I thought Gerry was a really stupid sub-plot, and then it got stupider when they stopped talking about him, even in the show's original run.  And they never did much with Andy either.

I believe it was Jerry, as he was named after Jerry Garcia. Since he came along so late in the original series I wouldn't especially be bothered by his absence. Andy, on the other hand, was born in Season 6 and played a more important role in Jackie's life, especially in her relationship with Fred (who has also never been mentioned). Meanwhile, Jerry has been mentioned - just once - whereas Andy has not. That makes no sense.

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He pre-dated the lottery season - do you remember now at what point the original Roseanne stopped being the original Roseanne and started being the story Roseanne supposedly wrote?

Very early, around Season 2 when Dan built a "writing room" for Roseanne in the basement. According the the series finale everything after that point was a fictional view of Roseanne's life as she wrote it in her book. But as stated, this reboot is a retcon of that retcon.

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I know the old show is gone and dead, but I miss the early Halloween years where we got story-based moments for their costumes, whether it be pranking the hell out of their neighbors, or Roseanne being stuck in a bar mistaken for a man. I think it would have been nice to have some fun with the theme rather than just people wearing costumes

I agree it was a missed opportunity. The Halloween show used to be such an important event every year for the Conners. They sort of half-assed it this year.

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19 hours ago, Steff said:

Bear with me here...

What if Andy is like Crystal's 1st husband Sonny?  Not in a bridge, but something so tragic that it can't be mentioned.  Something that even thinking about mentioning it freaks everyone out because it sends Jackie over the edge.  Of course, the massive flaw in this theory is that it could have been mentioned at least off hand when she was dealing with Roseanne's death.  Or if he's not dead that he chose to live with Fred at some point & again, it's so tragic & sends Jackie in such a bad place that no one can mention it.  Flaw with that would be that Bev WOULD mention it. 

You've got a morbid streak a mile wide. Come sit by me.

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