S03.E01 Nine Bucks

[Thumper]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I Googled "Matt Czuchry This is Us" and an article came up where the author just goes ahead and says it's him.  LOL!  I wonder if any fact-checking was done.  It very much looked like him, but my mind would be blown if it was actually him.  I will check the episode credits next.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/09/209203/this-is-us-recap-season-3-episode-1-premiere

Edited:  I don't think I saw his name in the credits.

At some angles it looks exactly like Matt, but when you really look it's like if Matt was wearing some weird prosthetics or something.  Also, why the hell would Rebecca have a stunned look on her face.  Unless they will explain it later.  It's so silly.  It's like they used a Matt doppelganger just to fuck with the Gilmore Girls fans.

Too "pretty boy" for me.  Don't know the actor.

[Ohmo]

On 9/26/2018 at 8:53 AM, Conotocarious said:

Why would Toby toss his meds before speaking to his doctor about a possible different medication without those side effects?

Because people who struggle with mental illness often can be very impulsive...to their detriment.  I promise you, Toby's fixated on "90% failure rate," the fact that he believes that his meds are affecting his sperm count, and the fact that Kate wants a baby.

Quote

To be fair, when he brought up going off his meds to increase his sperm count earlier, she gave a pretty firm "NO."  I wasn't pleased with Kate in this episode at all, but the pill dumping was 100% on Toby.

ETA: Strongly disagree.  Toby has some form of mental illness.  Sounds like depression or bipolar disorder.  He can't be counted on to always be in a healthy frame of mind, even with his meds.  As his wife (and someone who claims to love him), she's got to do some of the heavy lifting for his benefit (because God knows, he's done plenty for her.)  One little "no" is not enough, and if Kate did not educate herself in some way about Toby's mental health issues before they were married, she is one vapid, selfish woman.

ETA 2:

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In the future jump last season finale Kate says to Toby "That was the doctor they want you come in to talk about changing your meds"

I think he's off the meds at that time, has been off the meds for awhile, hasn't told anyone, and Kate hasn't figured it out.  The doctor believes a med change is needed, but the reality is that Toby has stopped taking meds period.

ETA 3

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That always makes me widen my eyes like crazy.  I'm either always the same weight, or gaining a few pounds a year. 

Warning, this may come across as heartless to some.  While I can appreciate the fact that it is difficult for Kate to lose weight, that isn't the issue for me.  The assumption is that she's entitled to have a biological child.  I'm sorry, but sometimes women can't have children.  For loads of reasons.  Kate is morbidly obese.  She simply is, and maybe she always will be.  If that's the case, then biological children are not likely in her future.  She's also 38 years old.  That's just life, and sometimes life ain't fair.

And just to give this some context, no I don't have children---in part because I was born with a disability which would have made pregnancy a high-risk endeavor---one that I did not consider fair to take for me (I'm a fan of breathing and living) or any potential child I might have. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Ohmo

[Ravello]

I didn’t enjoy it.  More pontificating from Beth.  I’m not the least bit interested in the cousin.  Not looking forward to the Vietnam Nam flashbacks, with all due respect to the veterans.  Adopting the foster kid, not realistic.   The first date was boring.  I love football but I’m tired of the football tie ins.  The winter carnival didn’t happen in freezing cold Pittsburgh.  Stupid first date. 

[Katekate]

Toby is in for some serious brain zaps and dizzy spells, and possibly becoming suicidal. Poor guy. Stupid decision to quit antidepressants cold turkey after 6 years.

[Amethyst]

10 hours ago, greekmom said:

Liability wise, the doctor wouldn't have just gone ahead and changed her mind. For example, doctor went to the board and the lawyers and said, "hey, there is this overweight gal, yeah I know the odds suck and she may die if we put her under but that Kate, she's one special snowflake. I gotta a feeling about her."  Then said board and lawyers are: "awww shucks. Just give it a try."

Special snowflake is part of being a Pearson.  Remember, Kate's father managed to do a pretty good job schmoozing a car salesman into knocking a few bucks off their new station wagon.  Screw the cost.  As Jack said, "his family belonged in that car".  Surely that was enough to melt that cold salesman's heart!

It's enlightening to read these PCOS stories as a fellow PCOS'er myself (waves).  I think the show did a real disservice on how they introduced it.  PCOS isn't another word for infertility, it's a metabolic disorder that usually includes weight gain, if not difficulty in losing weight.  And weight is a crucial part of Kate's story, whether we like it or not.  Nothing the doctor said would make things perfect, but it could have been some solace to Kate knowing that her weight issues were more than just overeating and not exercising.

 

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I actually like Rebecca for the most part and I feel more alone saying that. Even in season one when most people hated her and called her selfish for doing the band at the end I was always confused about why people were angry with her. And to me out of the Pearson bunch, she might be my favorite.

I think Rebecca's bad rap is due to shitty writing.  They're not afraid to show Rebecca's flaws; she wasn't thrilled about becoming a mother, she unwittingly played favorites with her children, she encouraged Kate's poor self-image (again, unwittingly).  She's certainly made mistakes, but she's not a bad person, and I believe she loves her family.  Unfortunately, her other half is written as God's gift to parenthood, marriage, and the working man.  

It's not that I don't like Jack, I'm just sick of the idolization of him.  One of my favorite moments was Jack going to that meeting when Randall was a kid and literally propping his son on his back, telling him he'd always be there for him.  That scene really showed why Jack was so beloved and respected.  But now?  It's just overkill.  Especially when those heroic moments for Rebecca are so few and far between.  Rebecca's character is used to prop him up, and Jack has never needed that.  Since the very beginning, the show has said has emphasized what a great person he was and how lucky people were to know him.  What flaws he does have are minimal, and usually forgotten quickly, whereas Rebecca is constantly dragged by her family or by her own guilt. 

That's why I didn't care about their first date.  Like Jack wouldn't do whatever he could to impress her, or spend every last dime to bring a smile to her face?  No, because that's what he's always done.  Meanwhile, Rebecca is the shrew who didn't pick up the clues that her date was broke, so she didn't pay.  Yawn. 

Which is why I'm hoping for meatier material when they show Vietnam and his brother.  If it's more of Jack self-sacrificing, no thanks.

[DebbieM4]

On 9/26/2018 at 7:31 PM, MissLucas said:

Kate: When is the universe gonna give me a damn break? 

Me: Maybe when you finally start appreciating that you have a family that loves you, a husband who loves and adores you, friends who care enough about you to throw you a birthday party? 

I get it - she's struggling with health problems and is frustrated. But guess what - many people struggling with chronic illness can only dream of the support system you have girl. Show a bit of social grace and keep the self-pity party out of the real party people prepared for you. How does this woman still have friends???

You wrote pretty much what I was just about to write.  She has a husband who loves and adores her, who would move heaven and earth for her.   A whole lot of people don't have that.  She also has friends who chose to gather to celebrate her birthday, and she has financial stability, not to mention a very loving and close extended family.   There's a lot that's good in her life - and they are important things - so she really needs to shut up about never getting a break.

I understand being upset, I understand disappointment and bad days and things not going her way.  But she's an adult, so she should have some awareness that everyone has problems.  And it was really rude to unload all that angst at her party at exactly that moment, with the cake in front of her.   She behaved like a child having a tantrum.  I really want to like her, but her self-absorption is too much.

Toby is not one of my favorites, but OMG she is lucky to have him.  He clearly adores her and he is a very patient man who gives far more than he gets.

Edited September 30, 2018 by DebbieM4
left out a word

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I just wish the writers would save Kate from having to say ridiculous things, like how she's lost a large amount of weight.  That must be a struggle to go with those lines.  They did the same thing last season.  If she had lost all of that weight, she wouldn't look larger than before.  And once again they have her talking about how there were no slip ups or cheating or whatever she called it, which implies she's on a diet, which isn't sustainable and sets her up to break, because she hasn't had any of her favorite treats in months.  Is that really reasonable or realistic?  I don't think so.  

I hate it when they tell us that that Kate has lost a significant amount of weight when the actress is the same size or bigger. I have seen Biggest Loser and 30 pounds can be noticeable on even quite obese people. We would particularly notice it on her face.

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I swear, I wanted to frickin' punch Kate in the face!  I so agree with you.  She is the most self-absorbed woman ever!  The fact of the matter is, if she's not morbidly obese, she's pretty darn close.  It is going to be very difficult for her to successfully carry a child.  She KNOWS that Toby would do anything for her.  Ultimately, Toby is the one that tossed the pills, but speaking as someone with several family members who deal with mental illness, they can become very suggestible and retain certain bits of things that they see and hear.  Kate had no awareness of that whatsoever.  She said "no" when Toby suggested cutting back on the pills, but then it was back to Kate, Kate, and more Kate.  As soon as I saw Toby in the bathroom with his notebook, I knew exactly what he was going to do, and Kate should have had some inkling that what Toby did could be a possibility.

The thing with "when is the universe going to cut me a break?"  OMG, STFU Kate!   You are alive and don't seem to have significant health problems (that we know of) due to your weight.  You just got married, and Toby loves you!  And newsflash, it is sometimes difficult for 38 year-old women who AREN'T obese to have children at 38.  Kate is not being especially persecuted, even though she thinks she is.  It's called life.  Stuff happens (and sometimes doesn't).  Her parents lost a child!  One of her brothers is adopted!  How can one person be so dense?

Beth was the saving grace of this episode.  I love her...and I love how she's trying to look out for Kevin.

Not to mention that she is extremely lucky to have a partner who can take on the financial burden even though she contributes nothing to the household income. I know people who have to save for years for IVF.

[Emily Thrace]

10 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Again.. I asked this and others did too, who is funding this? Kate had like temp assistant jobs in the first season and singing gigs here and there, what does Toby do? 

From what I remember when they went to his office he runs some kind of IT or special effects company.

[CelticBlackCat]

On 9/25/2018 at 7:39 PM, bybrandy said:

Toby's an idiot.  His sperm is way, way, way less of a problem if they are doing IVF since his sperm will be put up close and personal with the eggs and so they don't have to be as plentiful or as quick.   I mean it is a sweet gesture and everything but it is also incredibly stupid!

It is dangerous to do this.  If he wanted to go off his antidepressants, he should have called his doctor and had his dosage adjusted to wean him off.  Stopping cold turkey is a bad thing.  No wonder we saw the preview of this season of Toby in bed nearly catatonic.  Even Kate told him not to do it so we can't blame her.  Also, flushing pills down the toilet is a no no because of water contamination in the system.  But . . . D-rama!

[Court]

I have no issue with Toby making the choice to decrease/stop his meds. I have a huge problem with how he's doing it. Those are meds you wean yourself off of not just go cold turkey. It's hugely irresponsible and makes me a bit angry.

[ThisIsMe]

I felt like this episode was like walking through Costco on a Sunday with a sample table on every aisle --  sometimes giving us just a taste of what's to come, other times running out of the sample when we wanted more, and still other instances of a sample that makes you say "wt was that?"

Re the Franco Harris scenes.  Either one of the writers/producers is obsessed with Franco Harris or it meant something that is going to return later.  Why show the Italian mother & all of that?  It's either very random or very fortuitous.

Re Beth.  Her convo with Kevin was the best dialogue of the episode -- well, that and Kevin talking with his nieces.

Re the early love scenes.  Not enough new material there.

Re Deja.  I hope now that she came through with the gift that we'll move forward.  Her plot line was getting old.

Re Kate.  She's a hot mess right now.  And, they are giving her stupid dialogue to say about weight issues.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, ThisIsMe said:

I felt like this episode was like walking through Costco on a Sunday with a sample table on every aisle --  sometimes giving us just a taste of what's to come, other times running out of the sample when we wanted more, and still other instances of a sample that makes you say "wt was that?"

Re the Franco Harris scenes.  Either one of the writers/producers is obsessed with Franco Harris or it meant something that is going to return later.  Why show the Italian mother & all of that?  It's either very random or very fortuitous.

Re Beth.  Her convo with Kevin was the best dialogue of the episode -- well, that and Kevin talking with his nieces.

Re the early love scenes.  Not enough new material there.

Re Deja.  I hope now that she came through with the gift that we'll move forward.  Her plot line was getting old.

Re Kate.  She's a hot mess right now.  And, they are giving her stupid dialogue to say about weight issues.

I felt the same way, so disjointed, too many forward, backward moments. I liked the original, show some present day, some cute kids earlier and keep the time frame the same. If they showed a birthday party at 4 with the kids and went to present time, the next segment with kids was still 4 years old. I really don't like seeing Randall old with Tess, maybe once in a while, but why put yourself in a tight space with plot lines, is the show ending this year? Why do we need to know what is happening to someone later? It's like reading the end of the book first.

My coworkers think Kate will be written out with a stroke or disease if she doesn't loose weight, they feel the stories are getting "old" with that and her speech at the brunch was not great. I know she was heartbroken but she can't see anyone but herself, others feelings, etc. The way she treated her mother in the past, at her age, it's not attractive and she really needs therapy. So many issues and no one to really talk too except Toby.

Edited September 27, 2018 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

51 minutes ago, debraran said:

My coworkers think Kate will be written out with a stroke or disease if she doesn't loose weight,

I sure hope they don't write her out. To me she's the most interesting character, and she will still be interesting if she never loses weight, in fact, not ever losing is far more realistic for someone who has been overweight since childhood.  I find watching her deal with life as an obese person  more interesting than the usual TV trope that requires a big make-over arc for all non-beautiful people.  I also don't blame her, or any woman, for feeling sorry for herself for not being able to have a child, it seems like such a birthright for women to be able to do this thing, and those who can't must look around and see terrible mothers at the grocery store and ask themselves why her and not me?  Yes Kate can be self-absorbed, whiney and childish, but then so can all of this show's stars.  Just so long as she's not mean to other people at her meetings I'm okay with Kate.

[debraran]

I agree to a point. I feel, deep down, the writers really wanted Chrissy to lose weight and maybe wear something to make her look larger as she lost, but it wasn't cast in stone. There are other stories and I felt early on, stop harping that she is morbidly obese and just write her like any other character, but they wont.  Part of that reason is the drama, most heavy people aren't "special" in any way, they live their lives, deal with discrimination at times and many are happy. But Kate is her weight, everything from childhood on, has been her weight. She never accepted it or took more serious methods, doctor directed steps to lose it. Part of that is that Kate is a character and Chrissy is the real person who has to also do it. But if Chrissy doesn't want to lose weight or lose it for the show, then the writers should make her more dimensional. If they are saying, pregnancy will be hard, adoption will be hard, then show that but also show how some things aren't harder.

My favorite scene was when they guy told her she didn't get the job performing because she just wasn't as good....it wasn't her weight, and she liked that also. Let's have more balance or they will write themselves into a corner. Kate will pay for that weight over and over.

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, Ohmo said:

He can't be counted on to always be in a healthy frame of mind, even with his meds.  As his wife (and someone who claims to love him), she's got to do some of the heavy lifting for his benefit (because God knows, he's done plenty for her.)  One little "no" is not enough, and if Kate dis not educate herself in some way about Toby's mental health issues before they were married, she is one vapid, selfish woman.

If only psychics and mindreaders can care for him, he needs to be institutionalized.

[pinkglove]

I remember watching a TV show about extremely obese people many years back. There was a mother there who could never visit one of her kids' room because the corridor leading to it was too narrow. She also didn't participate in parent-teacher meetings because most of the doors in school were too small. For some reason, I thought about it during this episode, as it seems like a very, very, very bad idea for Kate and Toby to have a child at the moment. It looks like Toby is the only one who is actually earning money. Therefore, Kate would normally be the one staying with the child. While I don't have kids yet, it's kind of obvious that it's actually pretty demanding physically - she would need help all the time, as I can't envision her doing all the carrying/lifting/chasing (after the kid learns to walk) without risking her health. At the same time, it's really sad how Toby just switched on his "people pleaser" persona to satisfy Kate's caprice without even thinking about the child. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if he f**** with his head by going off meds without proper care, there is a huge chance that it will seriously affect the child. Altogether, I guess I see them as an example of two people who can't figure out how to deal with their issues so they decide to have a baby. And when I hear them, or maybe Kate, talking about it I feel like she wants ice cream or a new toy, or a singing career out of the blue. Maybe she is deeply aware of the fact that she is trying to bring a new person to the world and that she's poorly prepared to provide for that person (physically and emotionally) - but I don't see it. 

On a different note, I always liked Beth but I'm starting to see why not everyone does. What she told Kevin was sweet but her diva moments and control issues are getting tiresome. Seriously, why two adult people should care about what she thinks about their relationship? I mean, it's okay to share her perspective but making a scene and pretending she can predict the outcome of any situation is super annoying. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I think the idea for Toby and Kate to REALLY want a baby was producer driven drama and really not so wise, but, hey, they have a hit show, so, what do I know?  lol   I find that the writers for some tv shows make the mistake for going after big moments, strong reactions, etc. without thinking of the consequences long term.  They don't think it through and what it's going to mean down the road for the characters.  Like when they have a character get Type I diabetes.  They have no idea what that would mean for a real person with that condition.  It seems like the baby goal is perhaps a whim for Kate. I guess she has moved on from the singing career idea. 

And, I'm on the fence about Kate really risking her life with a pregnancy.  She's fully informed and willing to take that chance.  It may happen that she doesn't make it.  I can see how the writers may struggle with her obesity.  I think it might be easier to work with her character if she were only 100 pounds or so overweight, but, she's much more than that and to me, it's actually painful to watch her, because to me, I would think that she is very physically uncomfortable.   

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

I hate it when they tell us that that Kate has lost a significant amount of weight when the actress is the same size or bigger. I have seen Biggest Loser and 30 pounds can be noticeable on even quite obese people. We would particularly notice it on her face.

40 pounds at her weight wouldn't be visible to anyone who isn't looking at her naked. It sounds like a large amount of weight - but it is coming off of a lot of weight.  She has a round face, and it wouldn't show there either at this point. Biggest Loser shows people in as near to naked as possible, and is the unhealthiest weight loss "program" ever. Slow and steady loss doesn't look like Biggest Loser loss.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Aloeonatable]

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Adopting the foster kid, not realistic. 

I have neighbors that adopted the brother & sister that they were fostering. It happens. 

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

40 pounds at her weight wouldn't be visible to anyone who isn't looking at her naked. It sounds like a large amount of weight - but it is coming off of a lot of weight.  She has a round face, and it wouldn't show there either at this point. Biggest Loser shows people in as near to naked as possible, and is the unhealthiest wight loss "program" ever. Slow and steady loss doesn't look like Biggest Loser loss.

I just lost 30 lbs, I'm much smaller, but still in the obese range. No one, not even family, has noticed. But I tell you what, my blood tests have, and they're excellent.

 Congratulations!  I'm sure you feel amazing :) 

Re Franco Harris:  Since he's a real person, I wonder if they're trying to get him to do a guest spot...so he's actually going to be part of the show somehow - in the present.   

[Clanstarling]

3 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

I have neighbors that adopted the brother & sister that they were fostering. It happens. 

One of my kids' friends in elementary school was adopted by her foster mother. Yep, it does happen.

[Empress1]

14 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

I have neighbors that adopted the brother & sister that they were fostering. It happens. 

I know three people who have adopted kids out of foster care. One was my friend who adopted the first/only kid she ever fostered, who I mentioned in a previous post. Another was a former coworker. She and her husband fostered for years and then adopted a two-year-old (her daughters were 15 and 10 when I started working with her). And a third was my brother's Little Brother (as in Big Brothers/Big Sisters).  He was adopted into a family with a bio daughter who is younger than he is. (All three are transracial adoptions. My friend is white and her daughter is Puerto Rican; my former coworker is white and her adopted daughter is Black, and my brother's Little Brother is Latinx and his adoptive parents are white.)

21 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

40 pounds at her weight wouldn't be visible to anyone who isn't looking at her naked. It sounds like a large amount of weight - but it is coming off of a lot of weight.  She has a round face, and it wouldn't show there either at this point. Biggest Loser shows people in as near to naked as possible, and is the unhealthiest weight loss "program" ever. Slow and steady loss doesn't look like Biggest Loser loss.

I just want to second that The Biggest Loser is trash. Some of those contestants have permanently damaged their metabolisms. And yeah, Kate has got to be over 400 pounds, so 40 pounds wouldn't be noticeable. Going from 400 to 360 looks different than going from 200 to 160.

[Jax7917]

I don't like Kate's character. I don't mind the focus on weight but they really need to add another dimension to her character. Every story line with her has been about her weight and her personality comes off as entitled and snobby most of the time. The first season or 2, Toby made everything about her and she liked it like that. He was constantly chasing her begging to be with her while she was just all about herself all of the time. Every story line since that has just been more or less been "this person won't hire me because of my weight" etc. when in fact it had nothing to do with that. Then the way she treated the girl in the support group who for whatever reason was obsessed with being her friend and now is.. was just horrible. Then the way she treats her mother just because she was jealous of her being a pretty singer was just annoying.. and now her friends throw her a surprise birthday party and instead of being so thankful, she has to complain. I understand how hard it must be to hear that you most likely won't be able to have biological kids.. but she really is just unappreciative of a lot of things in her life that are good.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jaclyn88

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

One of my kids' friends in elementary school was adopted by her foster mother. Yep, it does happen.

Yes, it happens all the time.  Not sure why anybody would say that was unrealistic.  What I have never heard of is an "adopt or we're removing the child" ultimatum.  Especially not for a child that old. I get the state probably doesn't want to continue to support her, but it's not like other families would be knocking down their doors to adopt her.  And, if she wasn't willing to be adopted by Randall, why would she be willing to be adopted by someone else?  I actually know someone who adopted their foster child, but he had some severe medical problems that they needed taken care of and they waited a couple of years until that was done so that it would be paid for by the state.

[bichonblitz]

At this point, I could really care less how Rebecca and Jack met. It seems that should have been featured in the first season when we were getting to know the character's. We have already seen the flashbacks of the pregnancy, the babies being born, the good and bad times in the marriage, Jack's death. Now we need to know how they met? 

[MissLucas]

14 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Now we need to know how they met? 

Hey, it worked for HIMYM!!!

[kili]

Quote

Toby made everything about her and she liked it like that. He was constantly chasing her begging to be with her while she was just all about herself all of the time.

I think this storyline is meant to give her more dimensions and leverage her into a new storyline. It's pretty clear that she is going to have to be the one taking care of Toby. She did an amazing job of taking care of Kevin (such that she stopped living her own life), so I'm sure that Toby will be well taken care of. Toby seems to have been the first person who wanted to and she let take care of her since her father. I suspect that is why she kind of fell into the taking and not really giving mode. In the flashforward, she seemed to be patiently caring for catatonic Toby, so hopefully we'll get to see the uber-efficient Kate we briefly saw at the start of the show. She drifted after suddenly not having the job of Kevin's assistant, but Toby's troubles will give her focus.

[CountryGirl]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:31 AM, Enigma X said:

I am a woman going through the IUI process which may become the IVF process and have to say, rightly or wrongly, I do understand Kate's feeling of not getting a break. I am not saying it is a true feeling for Kate, but it seems real for some who want to carry their own child. It is easy for those people who don't understand that feeling to speak down on it. It is emotional and dramatic in real life and can only be portrayed the same on TV.

My sympathies to you (and to anyone else) who is a fellow member of the club no one wants to be a member of, me included. While Kate's myopic view can certainly grate at time, I'm on her side here. While lashing out at her birthday party probably wasn't the most appropriate place for Kate to vent her frustration, she literally just found out she was unlikely to ever have a biological child earlier that day. That is gut-wrenching and you can't always pick and choose when your emotions will get the best of you. 

If you've never experienced it (and I wouldn't wish infertility on my worst enemy) then I'm sorry, but you don't get to speak to how Kate should have behaved. To say that she should be happy with her life and appreciate what she has is as flippant and ignorant a response as "just adopt." As if we infertiles can just order up a baby on Amazon. This type of mentality is why I have told very few people about my infertility and treatment (4 rounds of IVF and counting) because many of those whom I did confide in, immediately offered up the so-not-helpful response "why not adopt?" I mean, gee, why didn't I think of that? And when I would turn the question around on them and ask, "Why didn't you adopt?," they just stood there, mouths gaping, with no answer. Because the answer - they didn't have to - was already obvious. 

[Katy M]

58 minutes ago, kili said:

She did an amazing job of taking care of Kevin (such that she stopped living her own life), so I'm sure that Toby will be well taken care of.

I had kind of forgotten about that.  She basically let her whole life revolve around Kevin and put him first in everything.  Except for the fact that it's gone on too long, it does kind of make sense that for a while she would make it all about her after years of that.

[Granny58]

Bad move Toby to dump your sertraline.  The best tactic is to taper SLOWLY.  I see one story arc will be your withdrawal.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought that Kevin had concluded that the Kate/Kevin thing was not very healthy and that it needing divesting.  Sort of a co-dependent enabling thing.  Not sure who suffered the most from it, though. 

[QQQQ]

I feel like we're headed toward Madison being a surrogate for Kate and Toby. Anyone who puts that much effort into making a literal carrot cake...

[methodwriter85]

On 9/26/2018 at 4:59 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had a hard time feeling bad for Zoe. She chose to have sex with Kevin, knowing that she has a terrible poker face. I can't believe she actually expected him to skip HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY just so Beth wouldn't figure it out. Girl, it's HIS birthday. If one of you should make an excuse not to be there, it's not the person who the birthday party is for.

I mean, it does suggest that Beth isn't wrong about Zoe and how she treats people she's in relationships with.

[woodstock]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

If you've never experienced it (and I wouldn't wish infertility on my worst enemy) then I'm sorry, but you don't get to speak to how Kate should have behaved. To say that she should be happy with her life and appreciate what she has is as flippant and ignorant a response as "just adopt." As if we infertiles can just order up a baby on Amazon. This type of mentality is why I have told very few people about my infertility and treatment (4 rounds of IVF and counting) because many of those whom I did confide in, immediately offered up the so-not-helpful response "why not adopt?" I mean, gee, why didn't I think of that? And when I would turn the question around on them and ask, "Why didn't you adopt?," they just stood there, mouths gaping, with no answer. Because the answer - they didn't have to - was already obvious. 

@CountryGirl Thank you for sharing what must be an emotional and physical struggle. Adoption isn't always the magical panacea we'd like to think it is. I do hope everything works out for you.

[CountryGirl]

7 minutes ago, woodstock said:

@CountryGirl Thank you for sharing what must be an emotional and physical struggle. Adoption isn't always the magical panacea we'd like to think it is. I do hope everything works out for you.

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

[MamaBird]

Quote

I also would not ask about said war on the date - I think Rebecca asked "was it horrible?" which is not a question I would ask. War stories have to be volunteered, I think.

I am basically Rebecca's age, and when I was in my late teens/early 20s, my and my friends' dating pool contained a LOT of Vietnam veterans.  We did not bring up the war with them.  Some guys wanted to talk about it - funny stories, like the camaraderie with others in their unit, that kind of thing.   I would never have asked if it was horrible on a first date.

[Ohmo]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

f only psychics and mindreaders can care for him, he needs to be institutionalized.

Wow...this has absolutely nothing to do with psychics or mindreaders.  Kate needs to be mindful of things that she has not demonstrated mindfulness of if her spouse has a mental illness (which he does).  Toby said that he likes to write things down so he can remember them.  Totally reasonable, but Kate knows that Toby heard the things that he heard, and THEN mentioned cutting back oh his meds.  That is not mindreading.  That is a) having awareness of some of the circumstances of her husband's illness and how that might affect him.  Toby has responsibilities in regard to supporting Kate (which he has often met.)  She has responsibilities in regard to Toby as well and becoming more aware is one of them.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

My sympathies to you (and to anyone else) who is a fellow member of the club no one wants to be a member of, me included. While Kate's myopic view can certainly grate at time, I'm on her side here. While lashing out at her birthday party probably wasn't the most appropriate place for Kate to vent her frustration, she literally just found out she was unlikely to ever have a biological child earlier that day. That is gut-wrenching and you can't always pick and choose when your emotions will get the best of you. 

If you've never experienced it (and I wouldn't wish infertility on my worst enemy) then I'm sorry, but you don't get to speak to how Kate should have behaved. To say that she should be happy with her life and appreciate what she has is as flippant and ignorant a response as "just adopt." As if we infertiles can just order up a baby on Amazon. This type of mentality is why I have told very few people about my infertility and treatment (4 rounds of IVF and counting) because many of those whom I did confide in, immediately offered up the so-not-helpful response "why not adopt?" I mean, gee, why didn't I think of that? And when I would turn the question around on them and ask, "Why didn't you adopt?," they just stood there, mouths gaping, with no answer. Because the answer - they didn't have to - was already obvious. 

THIS!  DH and I tried adoption first.  Nope.  Zilch, other than a child with special needs we weren't ready to handle.  Call us insensitive for turning this kid down, but it was a kind of special needs which would require special care.  People who have never  been through it don't understand that adoption is very difficult in the 21st century - especially if you are hoping for a child under 3.  And NO, most kids in foster care aren't "adoptable" because their parents have not relinquished their rights.  I often hear from older women (my mom's age) who adopted that they were matched fairly quickly.  However, that was back in the 70s and 80s.  Different times. 

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Wow...this has absolutely nothing to do with psychics or mindreaders.  Kate needs to be mindful of things that she has not demonstrated mindfulness of if her spouse has a mental illness (which he does).  Toby said that he likes to write things down so he can remember them.  Totally reasonable, but Kate knows that Toby heard the things that he heard, and THEN mentioned cutting back oh his meds.  That is not mindreading.  That is a) having awareness of some of the circumstances of her husband's illness and how that might affect him.  Toby has responsibilities in regard to supporting Kate (which he has often met.)  She has responsibilities in regard to Toby as well and becoming more aware is one of them.

If you're going to blame her for him throwing out his meds the second he has done it (we haven't seen anything from a missed dosage yet), then yes, you are expecting her to be psychic and a mindreader.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, MamaBird said:

I am basically Rebecca's age, and when I was in my late teens/early 20s, my and my friends' dating pool contained a LOT of Vietnam veterans.  We did not bring up the war with them.  Some guys wanted to talk about it - funny stories, like the camaraderie with others in their unit, that kind of thing.   I would never have asked if it was horrible on a first date.

So in the present day, do you find yourself wearing a lot of cardigans with white blouses and Diane Keaton bobs?

No, seriously though, I work at a movie theater and I've served coffee to a lot of women who are in Rebecca's age range. I've noticed a lot of Boomer gals tend to wear colorful tunic tops with capri stretch pants and chunky sandals. The way they dress current-day Rebecca is more like how current-80/90-somethings dress (i.e. the women who came of age in the 1940's/1950's.)

On a serious note, I'll never forget being told that you do not wake up a Vietnam War veteran who is sleeping. It can get real ugly real quick. The show hasn't done much to indicate Jack's PSTD, but I guess this will be the season for it.

19 minutes ago, PRgal said:

THIS!  DH and I tried adoption first.  Nope.  Zilch, other than a child with special needs we weren't ready to handle.  Call us insensitive for turning this kid down, but it was a kind of special needs which would require special care.  People who have never  been through it don't understand that adoption is very difficult in the 21st century - especially if you are hoping for a child under 3.

I mean, there's birth control, and in the United States, birth rates are continuing to go down. And I've seen several teen girls get pregnant at my work (I'm at a movie theater) and none of seem to give the baby up, especially if they're from a black family. (I feel like we saw a bit of that mindset in how Deja's grandmother definitely seemed like she was pressing Shauna to keep Deja instead of giving her up at birth.) In other words, there's not much in terms of supply, and in several U.S. states, mothers have up to months to change their mind and reverse the adoption. There was a show that focused on adoptions and there was an episode of a teenaged girl who just couldn't go through with it once the baby was here and I remember feeling so bad for the prospective parents. And then a bit irritated at the mom because the post-script basically suggested that she went into the military and her parents were caring for her daughter.

I did remember when it seemed to be all the rage to adopt a baby from China, but that spigot seems to have been shut off.

I think Hunter Parrish is drop-dead gorgeous and I didn't recognize him. His face looked somehow wider than it normally does, too. What's up with that? Whatever, he's basically there to play the James Marsden to Jack's Ryan Gosling, anyway.

Edited September 27, 2018 by methodwriter85

[WhosThatGirl]

I think I realized why this episode was not my favorite. I normally love The flashbacks but this time, Rebecca and Jacks flashbacks didn’t have any sort of resonate to what was happening presently. Normally the flashbacks are able to link something in common but this.. did not. Not at all. 

Also it seems to me that Kate and Toby don’t communicate in a healthy way. One doesn’t use jigs words (Toby) and one doesn’t recognize the others feelings when are plowing right ahead with what they want (Kate) and this can also be switched around as it has been in past seasons. Kate wouldn’t say what she wanted, toby did a grand gesture to show his affection even if it was too much and Kate wasn’t into it.

[Ohmo]

16 minutes ago, PRgal said:

My sympathies to you (and to anyone else) who is a fellow member of the club no one wants to be a member of, me included. While Kate's myopic view can certainly grate at time, I'm on her side here. While lashing out at her birthday party probably wasn't the most appropriate place for Kate to vent her frustration, she literally just found out she was unlikely to ever have a biological child earlier that day. That is gut-wrenching and you can't always pick and choose when your emotions will get the best of you. 

I don't know you, and I haven't had your experience.  In terms of Kate, if this was a "one-off,"then sure, I'd give you that Kate's emotions just got the better of her.  However, Kate routinely frames things in terms of HER wants, HER needs, and HER feelings.  No one else's, and she does it all the time.  People have said that Randall does the same thing.  I agree with that.  Randall does tend to frame things in terms of himself and his view.  The difference between Randall and Kate, however, is that I see that Randall does indeed want the best for Deeja and his girls.  He just frames it in terms of himself.  We haven't seen that from Kate, not even for Toby.  In the end, not only does Kate frame things in terms of herself, things always come back to Kate and very rarely, anyone else.

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

If you're going to blame her for him throwing out his meds the second he has done it (we haven't seen anything from a missed dosage yet), then yes, you are expecting her to be psychic and a mindreader.

We're going to disagree.

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also it seems to me that Kate and Toby don’t communicate in a healthy way. One doesn’t use jigs words (Toby) and one doesn’t recognize the others feelings when are plowing right ahead with what they want (Kate) and this can also be switched around as it has been in past seasons. Kate wouldn’t say what she wanted, toby did a grand gesture to show his affection even if it was too much and Kate wasn’t into it.

I have no idea why they even got married.  They don't seem to like each other most of the time.  I think Toby's in love with the idea of being in love.  And Kate just wants to be loved, but has no particular feelings for Toby.

[WhosThatGirl]

17 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I have no idea why they even got married.  They don't seem to like each other most of the time.  I think Toby's in love with the idea of being in love.  And Kate just wants to be loved, but has no particular feelings for Toby.

Right? They seem like they don’t ever talk about anything. They make declarations of what they want (“let’s have a baby!”) but thingsike that need a discussion.  I know they had the surprise pregnancy before but because of that and the loss, they should have discussed options together. 

Even kates no way to him about lowering his meds. He talked about lowering them, that seems like something they should have considered. If they had decided “yeah let’s talk to your doctor about it” instead of the hard no way. Instead Toby’s great idea is tossing them all down the toilet. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Even kates no way to him about lowering his meds. He talked about lowering them, that seems like something they should have considered. If they had decided “yeah let’s talk to your doctor about it” instead of the hard no way. Instead Toby’s great idea is tossing them all down the toilet. 

I guess they could have talked to his doctor, but considering his history and the fact that they have finally found the right dosage and medication, I would say having a baby is not worth messing with that.  I think "NO WAY" was the way to go.

[PRgal]

50 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I don't know you, and I haven't had your experience.  In terms of Kate, if this was a "one-off,"then sure, I'd give you that Kate's emotions just got the better of her.  However, Kate routinely frames things in terms of HER wants, HER needs, and HER feelings.  No one else's, and she does it all the time.  People have said that Randall does the same thing.  I agree with that.  Randall does tend to frame things in terms of himself and his view.  The difference between Randall and Kate, however, is that I see that Randall does indeed want the best for Deeja and his girls.  He just frames it in terms of himself.  We haven't seen that from Kate, not even for Toby.  In the end, not only does Kate frame things in terms of herself, things always come back to Kate and very rarely, anyone else.

We're going to disagree.

I don't know how I got quoted.  The post you quoted was from @CountryGirl.  Weird. 

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, pinkglove said:

I remember watching a TV show about extremely obese people many years back. There was a mother there who could never visit one of her kids' room because the corridor leading to it was too narrow. She also didn't participate in parent-teacher meetings because most of the doors in school were too small. For some reason, I thought about it during this episode, as it seems like a very, very, very bad idea for Kate and Toby to have a child at the moment. It looks like Toby is the only one who is actually earning money. Therefore, Kate would normally be the one staying with the child. While I don't have kids yet, it's kind of obvious that it's actually pretty demanding physically - she would need help all the time, as I can't envision her doing all the carrying/lifting/chasing (after the kid learns to walk) without risking her health. At the same time, it's really sad how Toby just switched on his "people pleaser" persona to satisfy Kate's caprice without even thinking about the child. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if he f**** with his head by going off meds without proper care, there is a huge chance that it will seriously affect the child. Altogether, I guess I see them as an example of two people who can't figure out how to deal with their issues so they decide to have a baby. And when I hear them, or maybe Kate, talking about it I feel like she wants ice cream or a new toy, or a singing career out of the blue. Maybe she is deeply aware of the fact that she is trying to bring a new person to the world and that she's poorly prepared to provide for that person (physically and emotionally) - but I don't see it. 

On a different note, I always liked Beth but I'm starting to see why not everyone does. What she told Kevin was sweet but her diva moments and control issues are getting tiresome. Seriously, why two adult people should care about what she thinks about their relationship? I mean, it's okay to share her perspective but making a scene and pretending she can predict the outcome of any situation is super annoying. 

Yes, Kate is already somewhat limited in her movements. It is doubtful that she can handle all the rigors of a baby safely and Toby will have to step up, which might affect his job.

7 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I don't like Kate's character. I don't mind the focus on weight but they really need to add another dimension to her character. Every story line with her has been about her weight and her personality comes off as entitled and snobby most of the time. The first season or 2, Toby made everything about her and she liked it like that. He was constantly chasing her begging to be with her while she was just all about herself all of the time. Every story line since that has just been more or less been "this person won't hire me because of my weight" etc. when in fact it had nothing to do with that. Then the way she treated the girl in the support group who for whatever reason was obsessed with being her friend and now is.. was just horrible. Then the way she treats her mother just because she was jealous of her being a pretty singer was just annoying.. and now her friends throw her a surprise birthday party and instead of being so thankful, she has to complain. I understand how hard it must be to hear that you most likely won't be able to have biological kids.. but she really is just unappreciative of a lot of things in her life that are good.

 

The problem is she has been written poorly. I have heard people on this board talk about infertility and my heart goes out to all of you. I am appreciative of you sharing your stories and pain. However, it feels like after the cat was out of the bag that it would not be a good look to force the actress to lose weight (which I agree with) they seem to have no idea what to do with this character. Today she wants a baby, tomorrow she will be a songwriter. The pregnancy storyline seems like a cliche thing we have seen multiple times and I wish they had not gone with it. I actually do not think this couple is in a good place to bring a baby into the world physically, mentally, or emotionally. 

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I had kind of forgotten about that.  She basically let her whole life revolve around Kevin and put him first in everything.  Except for the fact that it's gone on too long, it does kind of make sense that for a while she would make it all about her after years of that.

 

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought that Kevin had concluded that the Kate/Kevin thing was not very healthy and that it needing divesting.  Sort of a co-dependent enabling thing.  Not sure who suffered the most from it, though. 

It was healthy for the twins to break and hopefully, she gained some pretty good job skills as his assistant.  I think Kate wants to find meaning in her life. This is actually a really good storyline because a lot of younger Gen X and older Millenials are going through the same thing even in their mid to late thirties.

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Wow...this has absolutely nothing to do with psychics or mindreaders.  Kate needs to be mindful of things that she has not demonstrated mindfulness of if her spouse has a mental illness (which he does).  Toby said that he likes to write things down so he can remember them.  Totally reasonable, but Kate knows that Toby heard the things that he heard, and THEN mentioned cutting back oh his meds.  That is not mindreading.  That is a) having awareness of some of the circumstances of her husband's illness and how that might affect him.  Toby has responsibilities in regard to supporting Kate (which he has often met.)  She has responsibilities in regard to Toby as well and becoming more aware is one of them.

Its just we have seen episode after episode where people cater to Kate because she is just so gosh darn special. Her outburst in the birthday party was understandable in itself but it is just another long line of Kate is so gosh darn special.

Jack-Adored and enabled Kate in everything. She was his special princess and he undermined his wife to make her happy.

Rebecca- Happily was a punching bag for Kate's frustrations "because being a mother" meant having your daughter use you as her personal punching bag while you smiled stupidly and said, "that's okay dear".  Also, what did Rebecca actually do that was so horrible? Meekly, suggested (sometimes in very bad ways) that Kate eat more healthy while Jack took her out for ice cream every day. Had the audacity to be thin, pretty, and a good singer?

Randall and Kevin- Ran around ragged for Kate's special wedding so it would be perfect. Going to great lengths to make her happy even though Kate never really welcomed Beth who again had the audacity to be thin, pretty, and accomplished. Kevin adores Kate and Randall also loves her very much. They both have a much better relationship with her than each other.

Toby- Has no other purpose as a character than fawn over Kate and do giant romantic gestures for Kate. His only goal in life is to make her happy and give her everything she wants.

We have also seen Kate being extremely rude to people in her weight loss support group, including Madison. She also was pretty mean to a service person when she was trying to order balloons for William's FUN-eral. I mean she was just nasty and awful.

So even though the infertility is sympathetic in itself, you can see why we are rolling our eyes at her crying at a party her friends have kindly thrown for her "that she never gets a break".

Edited September 27, 2018 by qtpye

[Drumpf1737]

16 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I'm just sick of the idolization of him. 

Is it possible the writers are writing from the perspective of the kids so that's why Jack appears to be the idyllic father and husband? If we shifted to Rebecca's memory of Jack and those big moments we may get a more balanced view. Just a thought...

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Is it possible the writers are writing from the perspective of the kids so that's why Jack appears to be the idyllic father and husband? If we shifted to Rebecca's memory of Jack and those big moments we may get a more balanced view. Just a thought...

If it's from the Big 3's perspective, then why are we seeing flashbacks from before they were born?

[Katy M]

32 minutes ago, qtpye said:

We have also seen Kate being extremely rude to people in her weight loss support group, including Madison. She also was pretty mean to a service person when she was trying to order balloons for William's FUN-eral. I mean she was just nasty and awful.

In contrast, though, she managed to be very nice and civil to the guy at the ice cream shop who didn't have her dad's favorite flavor.  I am remembering now that we saw some growth in her that day, between not going nuts at the ice cream shop, deciding it wasn't going to ruin her whole wedding that she didnt' have her dad's t-shirt, finally letting go of Jack symbolically by spreading the last of his ashes, committing to Toby, hugging her mom, appreciating what Madison was doing for her, having a nice talk with Beth (after she lashed out at her at the bridal shower, but Beth and Randall kind of brought that on themselves, IMO, it's the one Kate freak out I can acutaly get behind).  But, it seems to all have disappeared over the break.