S03.E01 Nine Bucks

[greekmom]

17 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I would like to see Kate go to counseling and finally, gently, be told that she has to get out of the mindset of a sad overweight teen whose dad just died and thus gave up on herself in her grief.   Because I think she’s been stuck there forever, and it’s stopping her from seeing the things that have gone right in her life, and possibly making it harder to tackle her health issues.   

Exactly. We can see from the drumming session at the retreat that she still has MANY unresolved issues. 

Liability wise, the doctor wouldn't have just gone ahead and changed her mind. For example, doctor went to the board and the lawyers and said, "hey, there is this overweight gal, yeah I know the odds suck and she may die if we put her under but that Kate, she's one special snowflake. I gotta a feeling about her."  Then said board and lawyers are: "awww shucks. Just give it a try."

[TV Diva Queen]

6 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Exactly. We can see from the drumming session at the retreat that she still has MANY unresolved issues. 

Liability wise, the doctor wouldn't have just gone ahead and changed her mind. For example, doctor went to the board and the lawyers and said, "hey, there is this overweight gal, yeah I know the odds suck and she may die if we put her under but that Kate, she's one special snowflake. I gotta a feeling about her."  Then said board and lawyers are: "awww shucks. Just give it a try."

I worked in the general counsel's office of a HUGE medical center, over 8000 employees and this is EXACTLY how those meetings went down.  LMAO!!  Hilarious.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

28 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

The actor’s name is Hunter Parrish according to this article posted on FB by Entertainment Weekly: https://www.facebook.com/52150999700/posts/10156920675029701/

I haven’t watched the ep yet but I’m super bummed it’s not Matt Czuchry! Just binge watched GG for the first time and loved him as Logan (yes I know - probably in the minority on that one lol).

I know who that is, but I don't think it looks like him either!  But, thanks for the information.  I guess we will see when the almighty IMDB finally updates.

[Laurie4H]

Maybe I am not remembering correctly but how do Kate and Toby have the money for all of this?  Does Kate even work at all besides a few singing gigs?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

43 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

The actor’s name is Hunter Parrish according to this article posted on FB by Entertainment Weekly

Hunter Parrish will always be Silas from Weeds (aka Mormon Face) to me!

[Empress1]

If someone told me on our first date that I felt like home, I'd be creeped out. "I like talking to you," sure. I've heard that before. "You feel like home" is a lot for someone you met mere hours ago.

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

So i finally watched to end. Immaculate Reception. Best play in the NFL ever! 

Having been a Raiders fan at that point, my reaction was somewhat different. ;)

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

My first thought was definitely that Toby and Kate are no longer together. There was the strange lingering shot of Toby in bed alone in a very bland and mostly empty room, which didn't feel like a bedroom at all, but it also felt like it was cold, as if Toby wasn't waiting for anyone in particular....or his marriage is seriously in jeopardy at that point. I don't know where Kate is, but I didn't think it looked like she was going to be sleeping in that bed with Toby. 

I thought it was a hotel room.

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

I am glad I am not the only one on the hate Kate train.  I found her very selfish in regards to having a baby and whining about her weight.  What mostly bothers me is the fact that she will learn that Toby tossed his meds and it looks like she is fine with it as long as she gets what she wants (baby).

If Toby was a diabetic and he tossed his insulin - would that still be ok Kate?

Kate did not want him to go off his meds.

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

My take on the significance of the football game and Franco Harris was that it looked like the Steelers were facing certain defeat, and then Harris managed to win the game at the last minute with an incredible move. And Jack and Rebecca's date looked like it was headed for failure, until Jack spoke from the heart just as Rebecca was leaving, and he managed to win her over against all the odds at the last minute.

(And then, of course, there's the line about how the ball will eventually end up with the right guy, just like Rebecca will eventually end up with Jack.)

It is great metaphorically, but I think this is the intro to Beth's family.

56 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

We don't know if his name was even on the birth certificate.  Deja could have known who he was even if his name wasn't on that document.  

We saw her mother take her to the store when she was small. She knows.

26 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I was thinking it might tie in to Randall's mother's story. As Franco's sister (I'm assuming) is running out the door their mother yell's "Don't get pregnant". Which is exactly the kind of subtle foreshadowing this show likes. Or it could be Harris or his family is connected to Randall's mother in some way. 

Beth or her cousin's mom, maybe. 

[memememe76]

I think if you are dating someone who just came from a war, I would expect that person to be in a period of significant adjustment. I personally don't think Jack was particularly unusual in that date. 

[Violetgoblin6]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

Loved, loved every minute of it!  Some comments I jotted down as I was reading the thread:

Kate and Toby would have a very difficult time adopting, given her weight and his medical problems.  From what I've heard the restrictions are very strict when it comes to formal adoptions, probably even moreso in CA.  (Just a guess.)  Surrogacy is a better option.

I'm guessing "her" in the future is Rebecca.  Last season the mystery was about Jack's death, this season it will be Rebecca's to bookend it.  Maybe Toby was reluctant because Kate had already died and Rebecca blamed him for allowing her to go through with the IVF that killed her?

Franco Harris!  Man, I feel old that so many posters don't know who he is.  I had such a crush on him back in the day.

My husband was convinced Kate would be pregnant by the end of the episode.  From the Immaculate Reception to the immaculate conception.  Anyway, I believe Toby's comments about not being into IVF was only to help Kate accept that it wasn't going to happen.  And that he is worried about the danger.  

There was probably little mention of Deja busting the car window because this was 4 months later.  When Deja's mom said the father would have no objection I was worried that he would suddenly pop up sometime this season and want his kid back, but it looks like he truly has no interest in having a daughter.

I was shocked, shocked when we learned that Beth's outrage about Kevin and Zoe was because she was afraid for Kevin!  

Jack didn't have much choice about going on a date with only $5 $9 since it was Rebecca that suggested they go somewhere.  He couldn't very well say no and expect to see her again.  Good point about carnivals in Dec in Pittsburgh.

Totally agree with...well, everything. Especially the Rebecca deathbed to bookend it. Kinda like The Time Travellers Wife when Claire is an old woman and Henry pops up from his youth, time traveling into the deep future. Just, ya know, meeting Jack at the end. This show would do that. Remember William? Jack and William laughing on the couch? Btw, the writers will go to any length to include Ron Cephus Jones in a script, anything. Dan said in the Entertainment mag article that he's coming back for four or five episodes this season. 

[TV Diva Queen]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Having been a Raiders fan at that point, my reaction was somewhat different. ;)

I thought it was a hotel room.

Kate did not want him to go off his meds.

It is great metaphorically, but I think this is the intro to Beth's family.

We saw her mother take her to the store when she was small. She knows.

Beth or her cousin's mom, maybe. 

If this is true - I'd be pissed.  How could they leave out the Beth is related to Franco Harris, especially since this family is obsessed with the Steelers?  I mean, there should have been at least ONE fly by comment by someone in the family, that Beth is related to Steeler Royalty.  

[LakeLover]

As a woman with PCOS (I did have three successful pregnancies, was not obese when I was young, but lost my first [single] and third [twins] pregnancies) I have sympathy for Kate. I am obese now, past menopause, and it's a struggle to lose any weight. As the mother of two very large daughters with PCOS (not as large as Kate, but big enough) and a third daughter with PCOS who has a struggle as well, I absolutely, positively understand that Kate feels she's been given the short end of the stick. I see my daughters diet, exercise, forego extras that other women their age can happily, easily eat, and they struggle daily, weekly, monthly to lose weight. I see them take drugs meant to help that do not, I see them fight against diabetes, I see them deal with excess facial hair. This is no picnic. It's not ALS, true, but with the obesity and diabetes threat, it's a ticket to an early death. We see Kate who has worked hard and lost - what did she say, 40 pounds? Were they 35 when the series started? Forty pounds down in three years is great, but really nothing when you are that heavy. To those of you who don't know the struggle, understand that it is real and heartbreaking. All Kate (and my daughters) want to do is to look and be normal. Think it's hard to lose that extra 20 pounds? Try losing 100, 200, 300.

 

Now that I got that off my chest, I am almost disinterested in Jack and (see, I can't even remember her name!) Rebecca's story. I could watch Randall and his family all night long.

[Laurie4H]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

If someone told me on our first date that I felt like home, I'd be creeped out. "I like talking to you," sure. I've heard that before. "You feel like home" is a lot for someone you met mere hours ago.

I agree.  My friend married a guy that texted her upon meeting her for their first date (they had met on Match.com) “I’m in the bar and waiting for the woman of my dreams”.   If someone texted me that on a first date I wouldn’t have met him.  

Toby tossing his meds was a bit much.  Just keep them in the medicine cabinet and don’t take them.  That being said,  he would have some major dizzy spells without weaning off them.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Laurie4H

[Violetgoblin6]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Kate (and perhaps Toby, too) would not qualify to adopt in some countries (China and Korea, for example, have BMI caps.  Korea also requires not one, but TWO psych evals.  And any history of mental illness would disqualify people.  These countries have OTHER health requirements as well (I'm not qualified to adopt from China or Korea due to my history of epilepsy).  I'm actually unsure if they could adopt domestically, not just due to Kate's weight, but Toby being on anti-depressants.  You might have to be off for a certain period of time.  

Adoption, especially for infants and even toddlers, is a very, very long wait (or a near-impossible wait if you're looking to adopt privately).  Kids like Deja are "easier" to adopt because, sadly, most people don't feel comfortable adopting a teen/or feel ready to parent a teen.  That's just the reality. 

 

LOVED Beth and Zoe's fight.  To be honest, if Beth is REALLY upset at this (and MEAN), she could submit some sort of anonymous tip to a gossip site.  But she's a nice person and won't be THAT cruel.  

Wow. I want to look into adopting from Asia and I'm type 1 diabetic. 

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I think if you are dating someone who just came from a war, I would expect that person to be in a period of significant adjustment. I personally don't think Jack was particularly unusual in that date. 

I also would not ask about said war on the date - I think Rebecca asked "was it horrible?" which is not a question I would ask. War stories have to be volunteered, I think.

Quote

Were they 35 when the series started? Forty pounds down in three years is great, but really nothing when you are that heavy. 

They were 36 when the series started.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Empress1

[LakeLover]

7 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I also would not ask about said war on the date - I think Rebecca asked "was it horrible?" which is not a question I would ask. War stories have to be volunteered, I think.

They were 36 when the series started.

Thanks for the clarification. Still, 20 pounds a year when you're super-morbidly obese is great, but I can see why she'd feel defeated..

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Kate (and perhaps Toby, too) would not qualify to adopt in some countries (China and Korea, for example, have BMI caps.  Korea also requires not one, but TWO psych evals.  And any history of mental illness would disqualify people.  These countries have OTHER health requirements as well (I'm not qualified to adopt from China or Korea due to my history of epilepsy).  I'm actually unsure if they could adopt domestically, not just due to Kate's weight, but Toby being on anti-depressants.  You might have to be off for a certain period of time.  

Adoption, especially for infants and even toddlers, is a very, very long wait (or a near-impossible wait if you're looking to adopt privately).  Kids like Deja are "easier" to adopt because, sadly, most people don't feel comfortable adopting a teen/or feel ready to parent a teen.  That's just the reality. 

 

LOVED Beth and Zoe's fight.  To be honest, if Beth is REALLY upset at this (and MEAN), she could submit some sort of anonymous tip to a gossip site.  But she's a nice person and won't be THAT cruel.  

In the US, the typical wait for a newborn through regular channels (not a private adoption) is 7 years and most agencies won't even accept applications from prospective parents over the age of 40 for newborns because of that.  So, if Toby is 40, they may not have many options for a regular infant adoption.  The reason the public agencies use 40 is because there are simply far more people trying to adopt infants than there are infants available for adoption, so they have to draw some lines to cut down the numbers.

For a privately arranged adoption, there are no rules.  International adoptions have become far more difficult for everyone these days and, even if they could qualify, it would probably be a couple of years of waiting for a baby. 

As far as Kate goes, yes, she could and should be trying to lose weight and she said she had lost 40 lbs over a year or so via diet and exercise.  The problem is, she needs to lose around 100 more to put herself into a realistic position for a reasonably healthy pregnancy, but she will be well over 40 when that happens.  In vitro in women over 40 is far less likely to succeed and she seems like exactly the sort of woman who would balk at using donor eggs or a surrogate.  Her best chance at rapid weight loss is to have gastric surgery, but she has dismissed that out of hand previously. 

One pretty consistent thing about Kate is she seems to want instant results with very little effort on her part.  Remember her singing career, where she got ticked off because she wasn't immediately hired at the audition even though she had virtually no voice training and no experience?  She gets pregnant accidentally, miscarries (which happens 15-20% of the time anyway) and immediately goes all 'woe is me, life is so unfair'.  And, now, faced with infertility, she cannot possibly accept that, if the goal is to be a parent, there are other, more reasonable ways to achieve it.  She has to pout and whine her way through her birthday party so everyone can feel sorry for her. She really does grate on my nerves.

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Exactly. We can see from the drumming session at the retreat that she still has MANY unresolved issues. 

Liability wise, the doctor wouldn't have just gone ahead and changed her mind. For example, doctor went to the board and the lawyers and said, "hey, there is this overweight gal, yeah I know the odds suck and she may die if we put her under but that Kate, she's one special snowflake. I gotta a feeling about her."  Then said board and lawyers are: "awww shucks. Just give it a try."

While I feel the doctor is being irresponsible, she at least let them know exactly how low the success rate is and the dangers, so I would be really annoyed if Toby and/or Kate sued due to complications.

 

22 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Having been a Raiders fan at that point, my reaction was somewhat different. ;)

I know what you mean, but I can be rooting for a different team and still appreciate a really spectacular play.  I like an exciting game.

24 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It is great metaphorically, but I think this is the intro to Beth's family.

So, Beth is closely related to a super-great player and it doesn't come up regularly in this football obsessed family?

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Jackie67 said:

I'm so happy to have this show back!

My favourite scene was the conversation with Beth and Kevin. I really like their relationship and I thought it was interesting that she seems concerned for him in getting involved with her cousin.

I have a few close family members that are dealing with depression and experiencing some much needed relief through meds so I really dread the storyline with Toby stopping his meds.  And i agree with others that it seems silly given they're now starting IVF.

For that matter, if the doctors said his sperm were somehow less likely to impregnate Kate's egg because of the medication, all he would've had to do was tell the doctor, that, if she thought it would increase their odds, they'd like to consider using donor sperm.  Kate would probably not like it, she wants everything her way all the time; but there were multiple other far more reasonable options than stopping his meds.  BTW, the doctor probably would've told him not to worry, in vitro can compensate for his lack of sperm without using a donor and the whole issue would be resolved.

[kili]

Quote

I was thinking it might tie in to Randall's mother's story. As Franco's sister (I'm assuming) is running out the door their mother yell's "Don't get pregnant". Which is exactly the kind of subtle foreshadowing this show likes

The triplets aren't born until 8 years after the events in that flashback so the sister would have to remember that for a while. I tend to think that Harris is not going to be linked to the people in the show. Sure, real people drift through Kevin's life as cameos, but why would Harris sign up to have his family be part of Randall or Deja's tragic back stories?

Quote

LOVED Beth and Zoe's fight.  To be honest, if Beth is REALLY upset at this (and MEAN), she could submit some sort of anonymous tip to a gossip site.  But she's a nice person and won't be THAT cruel.  

Kevin tells the girls he wants to bring Zoe to his movie premiere in a few days, so the gossip sites will soon know all about it anyway.

I'm not sure I buy Beth's love of Kevin. That seems like a bit of a retcon. The last two seasons, the woman had zero concern about him. I get it. She's heard all the stories about how he was mean to Randall growing up and watched him swan around with a horseshoe up his butt getting everything anyone could ever want. Then he tops it off by driving drunk with Tess in the car and she ends up in the back seat of a police car. What's not hate?  She gives every indication of firmly placing him outside of her protective walls. Her "shtick" with him would not have included how she behaved during the visit to his rehab session when he wasn't even around to witness the "shtick". Maybe she's softened on him in the last few months, but I'm skeptical.

She clearly blamed him for the relationship at first. She tries to talk Zoe out of it by telling her how horrible he is and she's too mad at him to even discuss it in the kitchen. I suspect that Beth just sifted through what she knows about her superficial brother-in-law and decided on telling him Zoe wasn't good enough for him; that Zoe dumps everybody and figured narcissistic Kevin would want off that train as fast as possible. She's shown to be fiercely protective and proud of Zoe, but we've seen nothing of that for Kevin. Wouldn't she have appealed to her cousin's better side ("You know your track record. He's just gotten out of rehab and is too fragile. If you dump him, he may not recover. If you truly like the guy, at least give him a year post rehab to fully ground himself") if she thought Zoe was the main problem?

I think Deja's dad is going to muck up the adoption. That is going to be Randall's "problem" this year. Deja's dad is probably not on the birth certificate, but he seems to have had some stability in his life (he's worked at or owned that sporting goods shop for several years given the flashback). Why wouldn't Deja's Mom have appealed to him when she needed money or for taking in Deja rather than send her into the often nightmarish foster care system (the Pearsons were great, but Deja's first visit to foster care was not)? For whatever reason, Deja's Mom cut the dad out of her life. Now that he's met Deja and knows that she's been given up by her Mom, he might finally be shaken into doing something about it.

I don't think that the IVF treatments or pregnancy will cause Kate to be in some incapacitated state such that she is the "her" they are going to visit. That would mean that current-day Kate would only be around for another season. They already have to deal with one dead character on the show. Two characters only appearing in flashbacks would be a bit much.

I'm going to make an "Immaculate Reception" type guess as to who "Her" is: "She" is Jack's brother's daughter that Kevin and Zoe finds in Vietnam who spends the next 16 years becoming everybody's favourite cousin before she gets terminal cancer. The show will then have the next 16 years to fill in the details.

[Lady Iris]

I wanted to reach through the screen and cuff Toby on the side of the head when he dropped his meds down the toilet. Everything with him has to be The Big Gesture. Why not safely taper off your meds? Why not talk to your doctor about different options? Even if Kate gets pregnant you think being severely depressed is going to be a giant help to her or to anybody? Good gawd.

 

I'm a big gal myself so I'll feel free to say that it looked like Kate lost her shit when an actual and literal bundle of carrots was placed in front of her for a substitute cake. I think I might've unloaded on an unsuspecting group of well wishers how much my life sucks that I cant even have a cupcake on my frickin' birthday. I mean geeze, could've had an angel food cake or something less carby.

 

Are we going to have to wait two seasons like finding out how Jack died to wait and see who Tess needs to visit? Just move it along show. I ain't getting any younger!

 

I was so pleasantly surprised that Beth was looking out for Kevin. Did not expect that. Thought maybe she still harbored rage over the impaired while driving incident and that he'd be irresponsible with her cousin. That was very well played.

 

I need to see Randall skip in every episode henceforth.

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

In the US, the typical wait for a newborn through regular channels (not a private adoption) is 7 years and most agencies won't even accept applications from prospective parents over the age of 40 for newborns because of that.  So, if Toby is 40, they may not have many options for a regular infant adoption.  The reason the public agencies use 40 is because there are simply far more people trying to adopt infants than there are infants available for adoption, so they have to draw some lines to cut down the numbers.

For a privately arranged adoption, there are no rules.  International adoptions have become far more difficult for everyone these days and, even if they could qualify, it would probably be a couple of years of waiting for a baby. 

As far as Kate goes, yes, she could and should be trying to lose weight and she said she had lost 40 lbs over a year or so via diet and exercise.  The problem is, she needs to lose around 100 more to put herself into a realistic position for a reasonably healthy pregnancy, but she will be well over 40 when that happens.  In vitro in women over 40 is far less likely to succeed and she seems like exactly the sort of woman who would balk at using donor eggs or a surrogate.  Her best chance at rapid weight loss is to have gastric surgery, but she has dismissed that out of hand previously. 

One pretty consistent thing about Kate is she seems to want instant results with very little effort on her part.  Remember her singing career, where she got ticked off because she wasn't immediately hired at the audition even though she had virtually no voice training and no experience?  She gets pregnant accidentally, miscarries (which happens 15-20% of the time anyway) and immediately goes all 'woe is me, life is so unfair'.  And, now, faced with infertility, she cannot possibly accept that, if the goal is to be a parent, there are other, more reasonable ways to achieve it.  She has to pout and whine her way through her birthday party so everyone can feel sorry for her. She really does grate on my nerves.

Yeah, I’ve always never been able to connect with Kates story and her “I’ve been trapped in this body” moment made me a little upset(maybe because i suffer from a disability so that line bothered me). 

I also don’t get why Toby is tossing his pills when they are doing ivf now. And he’s going to hide this? And Kate’s still going to be poking herself with Ivf needles?

Im with others who don’t quite understand how jack fell madly in love with Rebecca. Because she sang? Also the date was kind of awkward, even forgetting the rain I can’t buy an umbrella because I only have two dollars, they don’t seem to have much in common. Yes we know they end up together but I’m seriously not clear on what brought jacks realiztion that Rebecca is the one.

[qtpye]

50 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

If someone told me on our first date that I felt like home, I'd be creeped out. "I like talking to you," sure. I've heard that before. "You feel like home" is a lot for someone you met mere hours ago.

If this was a Lifetime channel movie Jack would have murdered her after he saw her kiss the other guy and then would have gone on a killing spree murdering lounge singers all across Pittsburgh because they reminded him of her.

Edited September 26, 2018 by qtpye

[saber5055]

6 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I wanted to reach through the screen and cuff Toby on the side of the head when he dropped his meds down the toilet. Everything with him has to be The Big Gesture. Why not safely taper off your meds? Why not talk to your doctor about different options? Even if Kate gets pregnant you think being severely depressed is going to be a giant help to her or to anybody? Good gawd.

All I could think was, so how much did that prescription cost, with you so worried about the price of IVF. But then I don't like Toby anyway. He's a smartass and a jackass IMO. Although that fits with Kate.

Because I dislike Kate even more. She's so entitled and whiny and not even grateful that she has friends who threw her a birthday party. So she goes into her Big Old Poor Me speech and makes everyone feel like crap, but who cares, it's all about Kate anyway, right? If I were her "friend," that'd be the last she ever saw of me.

My only hope is that the dead person at the end is Kate. I don't care how or why, just that she's gone. But I know there's no way this show would remove one of the Big Three. Still, a person can hope.

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

If this was a Lifetime channel movie Jack would have murdered her after he saw her kiss the other guy and then would have gone on a killing spree murdering lounge singers all across Pittsburgh because they reminded him of her.

Now THAT'S a show I could get behind!

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, saber5055 said:

All I could think was, so how much did that prescription cost, with you so worried about the price of IVF.

That isn't even comparable.  A bottle of anti-depressants may cost about $200. A round of IVF is like $10-15,000.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

Quote

My biggest nitpick of the episode is how you gonna tell me that Franco's mom, let alone his dad were NOT AT THE GAME!!!!  really?  I'm a football mom, granted my kid is only in high school, he's been playing for 10 years and I've never missed a game and don't plan to, actually, I was teasing him the other day  that what ever college he goes to has to give him an allowance for me to travel to all his away games (its a joke, I know they can't do it).  

He grew up in NJ so I doubt his parents up and moved when he was drafted. He went to Penn State and that was in the middle of PA. I thought I saw younger siblings so that may be why the parents didn't attend, and, it was the day before Christmas Eve. You know she was busy preparing for the Feast of the Seven Fishes. (I think that's what it's called, my Italian cousins all celebrate it on Christmas Eve).

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

If this was a Lifetime channel movie Jack would have murdered her after he saw her kiss the other guy and then would have gone on a killing spree murdering lounge singers all across Pittsburgh because they reminded him of her.

That is the alternate version of this show.

[Mystery]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

That would be a pretty long grudge as that would mean Kate dies within a year or two and this takes place at least 15 years into the future.  Plus, if Kate died that early on in the marriage and Toby was living on the other coast, and he's not that close with the brothers anyway, they probably would have lost contact after a little while.

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Toby's not wearing his wedding ring, for what that's worth. 

As far as the "the father's not in the picture" courtroom scene, I think that he *must* be showing up later because otherwise, the easy thing to do is have the judge pick up a piece of paper and say "and here's the father's consent." Just as quick as what they did, but without any messy and illegal implications. 

Plus: This is "This is Us." 

[meep.meep]

14 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

He caught the immaculate reception, Terry Bradshaw threw it. The owner of the team, Mr. Rooney, didn't even expect the Steelers to win. He was in an elevator win it happened and came out to all the excitement. I didn't think Jack and Rebecca were together for like 8 years before the kids were born. That play was in 1972 and it looked way too warm at the carnival, yes, she asked for hot cocoa, but, that was 12/23. In the 'burgh it's freezing at that time of year, same as the super bowl.  Although it does make sense that Jack would have just been home from the war for 6 months at that point.

I know!  I kept thinking, it was Christmas, there should be decorations up and no carnival would operate in the dead of winter!  In the Bay Area we call that play something else.

And there is no way in hell that Franco Harris took a bus to the game.

[Dejana]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

 

LOVED Beth and Zoe's fight.  To be honest, if Beth is REALLY upset at this (and MEAN), she could submit some sort of anonymous tip to a gossip site.  But she's a nice person and won't be THAT cruel.  

 

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think they just wanted to hide it from Beth, though, not the world. I don't think Kevin and Zoe would care if they were outed by TMZ. 

 

I took the original poster's comment to me that Beth could send some horrible made up tip about Kevin to a site like blind item site like Crazy Days and Nights or BlindGossip, to drive Zoe away, if she wanted. Of course, you would have fans who'd get bent out of shape about Kevin in an interracial relationship, but I don't see a site like TMZ getting huge traffic from stories about a sitcom star dating a hot, single civilian or it being a huge deal these days.

[saber5055]

31 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That isn't even comparable.  A bottle of anti-depressants may cost about $200. A round of IVF is like $10-15,000.

I didn't mean it to be comparable. Money is money. He's fine with dumping $200 worth of pills down the toilet? Why not just NOT OPEN THE FREAKING BOTTLE and not take any? Maybe that's not dramatic enough for this show. Do Toby/Kate even have jobs? Although tv doctors/hospitals/prescriptions are free, so there's that.

[DFWGina]

18 hours ago, bettername2come said:

50s. But still. 

Oops my bad - he was in his 50s.  I thought he was in his late 20s. 

18 hours ago, AmandaPanda said:

I thought the connection to the football player was that he was the one who threw the Immaculate Reception, which was the night that Jack and Rebecca met? 

I believe that this is the last we are seeing of Franco as a character on the show  (just a hunch - not a spoiler) .  We may see him in more football tape but not as a person who would interact with the others.

18 hours ago, memememe76 said:

but I wonder if Toby and Kate's weight would make them less likely to qualify? I know little about adoption, so do not know. Do you have to go through health tests?

I do not know about health tests but I do know a couple who are similar sized to Toby and Kate that adopted a baby 2-3 years ago and were able to do so fairly easily (from the outside looking in - I am sure it was anguishing for them going through the process)

17 hours ago, Amethyst said:

IVF is an expensive, emotional process. 

4 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Maybe I am not remembering correctly but how do Kate and Toby have the money for all of this?  Does Kate even work at all besides a few singing gigs?

I have zero idea how they could possibly afford and pay for the treatments.  I know couples who have very good incomes and are in very good health who have trouble with the exhorbitant (just my opinions) costs.  I do not think Kate has a job and not sure what Toby does but he isn't pulling down big bucks like an actor (Kevin) or a stock analyst/crop futures wiz (Randall).    I need to know how they are paying!!!!

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awww, I love that Madison is still friends with Kate and that she threw her such a beautiful birthday brunch.

<snip>

I want to hear more about Kevin dating Jennifer Love Hewitt. I loved him sitting on the stairs with Tess and Annie.

I absolutely loved the literal carrot cake she made....

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I want to hear more about Kevin dating Jennifer Love Hewitt. I loved him sitting on the stairs with Tess and Annie.

Interesting with the JLH reference given she is on 911 this season and the folks on that board seem to hate her...  

 

4 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

I agree.  My friend married a guy that texted her upon meeting her for their first date (they had met on Match.com) “I’m in the bar and waiting for the woman of my dreams”.   If someone texted me that on a first date I wouldn’t have met him.  

 

 

They would still be in the bar waiting as I would be totally scared to death that they were a creepy stalkery guy.

Edited September 26, 2018 by DFWGina

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

We saw her mother take her to the store when she was small. She knows.

Doesn't mean his name is on the birth certificate.  

What if he was married or in a relationship and Deja's mother didn't put his name on for that reason?

[monakane]

16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I love the show, loved the episode. Nothing on TV moves me more. 

I too thought about adoption but beyond the show wanting to explore a different avenue of having children, but I wonder if Toby and Kate's weight would make them less likely to qualify? I know little about adoption, so do not know. Do you have to go through health tests?

Beth and Zoe's fight was everything.

I know from a family member that health issues can make you unqualified for an adoption.  I don't know if obesity would prevent an adoption unless there were health issues because of the weight.  

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

Jack was NOT in his 50s when he died.  He would be in his late 50s / early 60s present day (on the show for their 38th birthday had he lived

The Big Three were born on Jack's 36th birthday. They were seventeen when he died. So Jack was about 53.

[Empress1]

16 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

Jack was NOT in his 50s when he died.  He would be in his late 50s / early 60s present day (on the show for their 38th birthday had he lived

Jack was 36 when the kids were born in 1980 - much was made of that in the pilot, that the kids were then turning the same age Jack was when they were born. That means he was born in 1944, which would make him 74 today. He died in 1997 when the kids were 17, so he was 53.

Jinx, @Lady Calypso.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Empress1

[DoItToIt]

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I was thinking it might tie in to Randall's mother's story. As Franco's sister (I'm assuming) is running out the door their mother yell's "Don't get pregnant". Which is exactly the kind of subtle foreshadowing this show likes. Or it could be Harris or his family is connected to Randall's mother in some way. 

So I don't know if anyone else has thought this, but what if, Franco Harris is related to Beth or Zoe in a way? It's implied Zoe had some sort of complicated background. 

The Zoe/Kevin arc is what's holding my interest most atm. They are actually so cute together!

19 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

Interesting with the JLH reference given she is on 911 this season and the folks on that board seem to hate her...  

 

I think I'm one of those people lol

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I didn't mean it to be comparable. Money is money. He's fine with dumping $200 worth of pills down the toilet? Why not just NOT OPEN THE FREAKING BOTTLE and not take any? Maybe that's not dramatic enough for this show. Do Toby/Kate even have jobs? Although tv doctors/hospitals/prescriptions are free, so there's that.

Toby definitely has a job.  With his own office.  I think he makes pretty good money, plus I'm sure he has health insurance.  For the anti-depressants, not necessarily the IVF. 

[Rohirrim]

3 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

all we saw in court was the mother saying the father won't be a problem. 

 

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

again, all we saw in court was the mother saying the father won't be a problem.  The writers could have made the judge say "I see I have the paperwork from the father giving up parental rights", but they didn't do that.   We know no more or no less than that.  I'm not saying you're wrong by any means - I just still think there's some ambiguity there.  

The judge stated that, "The father was given notice of today's hearing.  No objection there".  That's when Shauna stated that Dad wouldn't be a problem.  So Dad was contacted but decided not to take part....until later this season I expect.

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

I have zero idea how they could possibly afford and pay for the treatments.  I know couples who have very good incomes and are in very good health who have trouble with the exhorbitant (just my opinions) costs.  I do not think Kate has a job and not sure what Toby does but he isn't pulling down big bucks like an actor (Kevin) or a stock analyst/crop futures wiz (Randall).    I need to know how they are paying!!!!

That's probably why he dumped his meds. He's hoping to get her pregnant the old-fashioned way before he has to figure out where to come up with the dough.

1 minute ago, Rohirrim said:

 

The judge stated that, "The father was given notice of today's hearing.  No objection there".  That's when Shauna stated that Dad wouldn't be a problem.  So Dad was contacted but decided not to take part....until later this season I expect.

Sure, now that she told him she's exceptional. 

[Wings]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Doesn't Beth know that the way to force a casual, boot-knocking relationship into  Romeo and Juliet territory is to forbid their love?

I love this!  A special nod to 'boot-knocking relationship.' 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I also don’t get why Toby is tossing his pills when they are doing ivf now.

He thinks that going off antidepressants will boost their chances of conceiving a baby. His sperm count is low, and he was told in this episode that the antidepressants might be the reason.

1 hour ago, LakeLover said:

As a woman with PCOS (I did have three successful pregnancies, was not obese when I was young, but lost my first [single] and third [twins] pregnancies) I have sympathy for Kate. I am obese now, past menopause, and it's a struggle to lose any weight. As the mother of two very large daughters with PCOS (not as large as Kate, but big enough) and a third daughter with PCOS who has a struggle as well, I absolutely, positively understand that Kate feels she's been given the short end of the stick. I see my daughters diet, exercise, forego extras that other women their age can happily, easily eat, and they struggle daily, weekly, monthly to lose weight. I see them take drugs meant to help that do not, I see them fight against diabetes, I see them deal with excess facial hair. This is no picnic. It's not ALS, true, but with the obesity and diabetes threat, it's a ticket to an early death. We see Kate who has worked hard and lost - what did she say, 40 pounds? Were they 35 when the series started? Forty pounds down in three years is great, but really nothing when you are that heavy. To those of you who don't know the struggle, understand that it is real and heartbreaking. All Kate (and my daughters) want to do is to look and be normal. Think it's hard to lose that extra 20 pounds? Try losing 100, 200, 300.

So wait, Kate's condition doesn't just make it harder to get pregnant, it also makes it a lot harder to lose weight? I really wish the writers had clarified that - it explains so much about why she hasn't lost more weight, when she's been pretty good about eating healthy for quite some time now.

As for money, I've always had the impression that Toby does very well. He was apparently supporting Kate while she brought in basically zero income through her singing career, and money has never been an issue for them. The fact that they were actually prepared to go through IVF, and they only mentioned the cost as a negative in one brief moment, would suggest that they're very well off.

Either Kevin paid Kate a ridiculously high salary, and she squirreled most of it away, or Toby has some serious dough. Or both.

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

He grew up in NJ so I doubt his parents up and moved when he was drafted. He went to Penn State and that was in the middle of PA. I thought I saw younger siblings so that may be why the parents didn't attend, and, it was the day before Christmas Eve. You know she was busy preparing for the Feast of the Seven Fishes. (I think that's what it's called, my Italian cousins all celebrate it on Christmas Eve).

I didn't pay close enough attention, but I think he left from that house and returned to that house.

Also,  I'm Italian, and there was no Feast of the Seven Fishes going on at the house.  Trust me.  It takes about 5 sturdy cooks to pull that off.  

ETA:  I knew there wasn't the Feast of the Seven Fishes happening.  The game was Dec 23, 1972,  

Edited September 26, 2018 by TV Diva Queen

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

He thinks that going off antidepressants will boost their chances of conceiving a baby. His sperm count is low, and he was told in this episode that the antidepressants might be the reason.

So wait, Kate's condition doesn't just make it harder to get pregnant, it also makes it a lot harder to lose weight? I really wish the writers had clarified that - it explains so much about why she hasn't lost more weight, when she's been pretty good about eating healthy for quite some time now.

As for money, I've always had the impression that Toby does very well. He was apparently supporting Kate while she brought in basically zero income through her singing career, and money has never been an issue for them. The fact that they were actually prepared to go through IVF, and they only mentioned the cost as a negative in one brief moment, would suggest that they're very well off.

Either Kevin paid Kate a ridiculously high salary, and she squirreled most of it away, or Toby has some serious dough. Or both.

I know he was told that but he doesn’t need to toss the antidepressants if they’re doing ivf. Remember before they went back to the ivf  doctor, he told Kate he would “slow down his meds” and they could try the old fashion way or something  and Kate said no way. Doing it now makes no sense. They’re doing the treatments now so it doesn’t make sense. Also it’s goinf To help no one and again.. he’s clearly not going to tell Kate what he did and she’s going to be doing treatments.. so.. whatever. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Wings]

16 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I loved Beth and Kevin's conversation where she told him she loved him.

I am glad Kate is hopeful but wish she would also look into adoption (I say this as an adoptive mother)

What?! And miss all the drama of IVF which will bring crazy mood swings, another miscarriage and so so much more!? 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Wings said:

What?! And miss all the drama of IVF which will bring crazy mood swings, another miscarriage and so so much more!? 

Again.. I asked this and others did too, who is funding this? Kate had like temp assistant jobs in the first season and singing gigs here and there, what does Toby do? 

[TV Diva Queen]

15 minutes ago, Rohirrim said:

 

The judge stated that, "The father was given notice of today's hearing.  No objection there".  That's when Shauna stated that Dad wouldn't be a problem.  So Dad was contacted but decided not to take part....until later this season I expect.

sounded to me like the judge posed a question when he ask that.  

[topanga]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Kevin and the girls are such a great combination, they make me so happy. Beth was right, he talks to them like adults (to an extent) and you can tell how much they appreciate that. The girls are so cute, and Kevin is really good with them.

Kevin was actually my favorite part of the episode, and that’s not usually the case. The Kevin/Beth/Zoe/Girls scenes in particular. I haven’t seen Kevin this happy in a while. I like him with Zoe. Weren’t they still together in one of last season’s flash-forwards?

I do feel bad for Kate, but she’s also bratty and immature in many ways. It does suck for her fertility’s sake that she didn’t find a man she wanted to have children with till her late 30s. And I know it sucks to be told your fertility issues are hindered by your obesity. Yes, she’s ignored her weight issues for years, but she’s working hard on them now. But she walks around with this “woe is me” martyrdom attitude that’s tiring and a little annoying. As if the universe has singled her out for punishment, rather than acknowledging that some of her life choices have landed her in this position.

I’m sorry, but I’m really bored by the Jack/Rebecca relationship. I fast-forward through all of their scenes now. I know Milo Ventimiglia is beloved on the set, but I think the Jack and Rebecca love story has run its course. I don’t want to see anymore scenes about how they got together and fell in love or what their marriage was like. I know, I know, they were soul mates with an epic love story. We get it. We’ve watched that story many, many times already. I’d be interested in learning more about Jack’s tour in Vietnam. I’d watch that. But please, no more flashbacks to their first dates or newlywed days or early parenting days.

[ClareWalks]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Exactly. We can see from the drumming session at the retreat that she still has MANY unresolved issues. 

Liability wise, the doctor wouldn't have just gone ahead and changed her mind. For example, doctor went to the board and the lawyers and said, "hey, there is this overweight gal, yeah I know the odds suck and she may die if we put her under but that Kate, she's one special snowflake. I gotta a feeling about her."  Then said board and lawyers are: "awww shucks. Just give it a try."

Right! I thought the doctor was going to tell Kate "okay, I shouldn't have been so hasty. If you are willing to lose 80 more pounds, we will take you on as a patient," and offered a diet/exercise plan.

[Wings]

7 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Again.. I asked this and others did too, who is funding this? Kate had like temp assistant jobs in the first season and singing gigs here and there, what does Toby do? 

This show bares no resemblance to real life despite the hype. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, LakeLover said:

As a woman with PCOS (I did have three successful pregnancies, was not obese when I was young, but lost my first [single] and third [twins] pregnancies) I have sympathy for Kate. I am obese now, past menopause, and it's a struggle to lose any weight. As the mother of two very large daughters with PCOS (not as large as Kate, but big enough) and a third daughter with PCOS who has a struggle as well, I absolutely, positively understand that Kate feels she's been given the short end of the stick. I see my daughters diet, exercise, forego extras that other women their age can happily, easily eat, and they struggle daily, weekly, monthly to lose weight.

I appreciate your story.  I appreciate you talking about this!

I've seen a lot of posts that say Oh boo hoo Kate, this is all your own problem, just lose weight.

That always makes me widen my eyes like crazy.  I'm either always the same weight, or gaining a few pounds a year.  I work out, I forgo almost every vice that I can think of, but my metabolism is crazy slow.  I've tried all sorts of diets and workouts.  It's so frustrating!  I have friends who are way tinier who eat whatever they want. It's a boring, old story, but it's the truth.  It's so hard!  And I'm a lot smaller than Kate.  It's excrutiatingly hard for me to even lose 1 pound.