S10.E21: Reunion Part 2

[lamujerdecente]

I am Team No one. Bethany has longed been a nasty wench. But she was popular early. A fan favorite. When I say ratings draw thats it. She has fans that tune in for her. 

I think her man was a predator of the poor prior to his sudden death. But his death made me feel some kind of way. My dad was an opiate user due to a fall at work and he became addicted. He nearly killed himself  few years ago. He died of a massive heart attack Dec. 30, 2017. Following my mother's death, six months before. That is triggering AF. 

I feel for her. I feel for his kids. His wife. Regardless of what their relationship was. Especially the way he died. People are brutal about addiction. Brutal with their denials and judgements. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. 

And while I think Bethany is a nasty bitch a lot of the time, Carole's  behavior on twitter recently, showed why I never liked her. She has always been a sneaky nasty mean girl. For some she gets a pass because of how nasty Bethany is but I don't excuse her, especially since loss has been her defining narrative. 

Carole has no self aware. And I think Bethany and her bonded over being mean girls.  She has aged shamed. She has been tone death.  She has dated a user. 

On a shallow note, she has gotten so unattractive over the years. And it seems to be self induced with bad plastic surgery. 

[ShawnaLanne]

9 minutes ago, Maccagirl said:

Are you able to post what the tweet said?  I am curious, but do not use Twitter.  TIA for any info you can offer.

You can find it in the Carole section. Go back to the day Dennis died.

[Delete]

They are all loud-mouthed, self-absorbed harpies. All of them. Bethenny and Carole both excel at gaslighting. Carole may be more accomplished at it, because this season she has been able to shut down Bethenny's motormouth and reduce her to tears. Usually Bethenny can overtalk and shut people down, but not with Carole.

 

I'll give Carole credit for going after Andy Cohen. He is the BIGGEST instigator, and loves to sit back and watch women fight, and make fools of themselves. I don't like her as a person, but I was impressed she called him out on his bs. Andy Cohen is misogynistic piece of trash. 

 

Slurinda let her true colours show this season.   She does has a substance abuse problem, but the biggest revelation is that she's a nasty person. My belief is that drinking enhances personality and as a result, Slurinda is naturally  aggressive and mean. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Barbara Please
numerous mistakes. TGIF

[Chalby]

1 hour ago, nokat said:

I didn't obey the rules, so post removed, and me with my tail between my legs.

 

LOL - well it appears you learned two things: what NOT to post, and where your tail went. ;)

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:43 PM, bencr said:

In prior seasons, I liked Carole as a kind of Greek chorus who would observe and comment on the other cast members in a wry, albeit dispassionate way (kind of like Cameron on Southern Charm). This season she "found her voice" in a more active way, and I didn't like her nearly as much.

Carole's version of that is talking snidely in her TH shots and in her blogs.

That's not finding her voice.

Carole's version is behind someone's back - no transparency.

Carole SUX - currently Dorinda's ass - why no love for Ramona or Tinsley?

[Dirtybubble]

4 minutes ago, Barbara Please said:

Another thing I'll give Carole credit for is for going after Andy Cohen. He is the BIGGEST instigator, and loves to sit back and watch women fight, and make fools of themselves. I don't like her as a person, but I was impressed she called him out on his bs. Andy Cohen is misogynistic piece of trash. 

WORD!  I've heard many times that this is the reason she was fired but IMO I think she already knew she was leaving the show and this was her F.U. to everyone.  If you're going to quit your job why not tell the boss to flog off =D

 

I've never liked the way B has criticized the other women's careers.  I think what she's doing is comparing her own career to theirs and if it doesn't match up, is equal to, or produces the same results as her she deems it not worthy.  It's why she complained about Ramona's skin care line and Carole's writing.  In B's mind those aren't careers but when did she become judge and jury?!  Yes it was just one article that Carole wrote and ok so Ramona's skin care line hasn't taken off yet, or even been produced, but dang honey a little support would go a long way.  At least they are doing SOMETHING....

[tvfanatic13]

Will post where it should have been. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by tvfanatic13

[sasha206]

49 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

she doesn't get to be happily choosing to not have children but also the sympathetic childless widow who yearns even now for her womb to be filled with the child she so desperately wanted. 

I do kind of agree with this.  I never got the impression from Carole (and I read her book) that she had a burning desire to be a mom ever.  Of course, this could also be a defense mechanism as well.  

I didn't think Beth slammed her for being childless either.  I personally think Carole will never get over Beth essentially saying that Adam is a user and opportunistic and therefore the relationship with Carole wasn't because he found her irresistible and she's using everything else to justify that anger.  Meanwhile, I don't blame her at all for intensely disliking Beth at this point as I'm not seeing that there's much to love anyway.  

[tvfanatic13]

14 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

Thank god for Carole.

Mileage varies!

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:44 PM, Martinigirl said:

And yet, she is stalking Bethenny's twitter and re-tweeting the nasty tweets. Carole is one scary bitch.

For someone who left for better horizons, Carole is busy staying in the past.

This is not a person excited about her new ventures in life.

"leaving frenemies behind" Carole is directionally dyslexic - Bwahahaha

Carole is a Bitter Becky - total sign that her ass got fired.

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:57 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

Maybe, but she was obviously working from a script the rest of the time.

The Dream Scream Script written by Carole - she's an author you know?

In this decade Carole did write A Widows Guide to Sex and Dating - but in terms of sales Bethenny's I Suck At Relationships did better and is ranked higher - Bwahahahaha

[VioletMarx]

21 hours ago, ancslove said:

 

But Carole’s error was stringing B along instead of making a clean break.  And now Carole makes herself look worse because she’s being so intentionally cruel, and Bethenny’s transgressions just don’t make Carole’s vitriol seem warranted.

How could she make a clean break when they're on a show that requires them to interact?

Edited August 31, 2018 by VioletMarx

[Jextella]

On 8/30/2018 at 8:14 AM, Bossa Nova said:

THIS^^^^ !.

And Carole,right or wrong in this overall battle, I think is just worn down from dealing with Bethenny's and her neediness/narcissism.

Its exhausting to deal with people with NPD. 

If I recall correctly, Ramona said in a WWHL interview ... or maybe it was just on the show ... that being friends with Bethenny is exhausting.

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/29/2018 at 11:00 PM, howiveaddict said:

Anthony dying didn't prevent  Carole from having children. Many women today, have babies without a partner. They use a sperm bank or find a donor. Many men bank their sperm before starting chemo. Or she could always adopt.   Also, I read the book too and it seemed like she didn't want kids.   Juif  So if Carole wanted children, she could have found a way to have them.  She had the money and resources to do so.  Not that Beth saying that she was childless wasn't meant as an insult.  But, Carole shouldn't act like it was the most horrible thing ever said to her because she is a widow.

She didn't want any kids according to Tinsley from last year in Vermont. I don't think Tinsley is smart enough to go into archives to find articles of Carole saying she didn't want any. Carole must have told her. Who else would have revealed such information to her on the show? Certainly not Sonja as they were going thru the House Guest Etiquette debate. Luann, Dorinda, Ramona - thought Tinsley was a non factor. Bethenny was giving Tinsley the side eye as Tinsley was just telling Bethenny how she just LOVES kissing boys.

This leaves Carole who Tinsley did seem to bond the most with in her first year on the show. Carole told Tinsley, as I don't see Tinsley viciously making up a rumor about Carole or revealing a truth about Carole that Carole didn't want known.

Since this came out last year - this is something Carole "recently" said so Carole doesn't get to make the play that someone is rubbing  "not having children" in her face.

[gingerella]

3 minutes ago, Jextella said:

If I recall correctly, Ramona said in a WWHL interview ... or maybe it was just on the show ... that being friends with Bethenny is exhausting.

Which, coming from Ramona, says a lot...

[FozzyBear]

6 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

How could she make a clean break when they're on a show that requires them to interact?

So I will say that Bethanny kind of excels at this. She has told cast members “I don’t like you and we’re not friends” multiple times and then gone on to film the rest of the season with them. Often she’s not even all that mean to them either (on both the sliding scale of Real Housewife behavior and Bethany behavior). She just exists near them. I’m not saying it’s the “right” thing to do, but I guess that’s how you do it.  

Of course, I’m not sure Carole really had it in her to tell Bethany she just didn’t like her and release all her anger and then move on. Carole has been my BEC since her first second on the show, but I sympathize with her here. I try to imagine myself having that conversation and I just can’t picture it. It’s really not in me. I have a real life example I’m going through. Nothing as extreme, but a friendship I am reevaluating. So I get the thing Carole says she was trying to do with just sort of restructuring the friendship because I’m in that process myself. Of course I’m also aware that I’m contributing to the dynamic and that this person hasn’t changed and isn’t actually doing anything she hasn’t been doing for years. It’s fine for me to say “I can’t do this to the extent I have before” it’s not ok for me to pretend I’m an innocent victim of a machevellian plot. I need to be honest with myself about what’s really going on. I don’t think Carole is.

[VedaPierce]

16 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I disagree. The reunion looks back at the season. Dorinda's behavior this season certainly begs the question. And I don't think she was assertive. She was rude and obnoxious. "I haven't been arrested yet" is something many alcoholics say when they are in denial and want to keep drinking. You don't have to be drinking out of a paper bag or sleeping it off in a jail cell to be an alcoholic. In fact, a good portion haven't had legal trouble. What brings many into recovery is negative feedback from family and friends, trouble with their jobs and health reasons. At least two of those apply to Dorinda so hopefully she will come to her senses. I feel sorry for her even though I don't like her at all. 

Carole does not look good. I'm not sure if it's her hair or whatever she did to her mouth and lower jaw. She also seems very angry and geared up for a fight. Perhaps Dorinda is rubbing off on her. What happened to laid back, easy going Carole? 

Tinsley sounds like she's settling because she desperately wants a husband who will take care of her. I wonder if she was really seeing other people as Scott was or if she said that to save face.  

Is that Ramona's hair or a wig? It looks shiny and healthy. I wish she would've picked a dress that complemented her body style.  

A true narcissist never thinks she is one. They lack self-awareness and think everyone else is the problem.  

Agree with all! I would feel sorry for Dorinda if she wasn’t such a straight-up BITCH! Her screaming at Sonja to “SHUT UP!” was disgusting! Who the hell is she to tell anyone to shut up?? Sonja barely even got any words in so far. Dorinda was a steamroller and didn’t stop flapping her gums for a breath! Really dislike her now!

Carole was VERY angry. She hates Bethenny now. 

I think Tinsley breaking up then getting back together with Scott is for show...so that he doesn’t have to film and can stay far away from this shit-show. I think they cooked it up. Together when not filming, broken up when filming. Convenient. 

Ramoner caught some hell from Andy about having a juicy conversation with Luann OFF camera while they were filming in Mexico. She looked scared and knew she was in trouble! Lol I caught it! SO GOOD!!! Lol

Edited August 31, 2018 by VedaPierce

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I've never liked the way B has criticized the other women's careers.  I think what she's doing is comparing her own career to theirs and if it doesn't match up, is equal to, or produces the same results as her she deems it not worthy.  It's why she complained about Ramona's skin care line and Carole's writing.

I think Bethenny is frustrated that a lot of these women have good ideas for products and yet FAIL TO FOLLOW THROUGH.  I was thrilled with the idea of Sonya coming up with a new model for a toaster oven--a product desperately in need of updating.  And Carole/Adam's book, "The Reluctant Vegan" -- also a timely idea.  Yet neither went anywhere.  Ramona DID have a wine, but Bethenny has pointed out that she had inconsistent branding with the different spellings/names.  Meanwhile, every one of Bethenny's announced ideas has come to fruition:  products, books, TV series.  I think that is the heart of her criticism:  they have lack of passion and follow-through.  

[VedaPierce]

12 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

And Carole reading Bethenny's text, saying that Moaner is evil, gave me the biggest laugh this season.  She is evil.  It's about time someone actually said it after 10 fucking years!

Then Ramoner saying “thank you” and Bethenny—without even a glance in her direction, without skipping a beat—“you’re welcome”. Awesome. 

[Rap541]

Ramona and Bethenny are the true frenemies :D

"You don't support women!"

"You're evil!"

"You drive everyone away!"

"Noted!"

"We should share a room on the next vacation and cuddle while drunk!"

"Only after you try to poison me with your evil fish soup!"

"Thank you!"

Edited August 31, 2018 by Rap541

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/29/2018 at 11:17 PM, mbaywife123 said:

Ramona has gone almost silent at this point, she is trying to figure out in her crazy noodle brain which side to land on to keep her job next season. I think she figured out that Carole just got fired after her FU to Andy.

Hah! I still love Ramona

The Scream Team totally fell apart after the reunion. There was absolutely no solidarity or loyalty in terms of Instagram or Twitter from Ramona, Dorinda, or Tinsley (she I knew wouldn't when I saw how silent she's been on that couch) for Carole.

Neither Ramona nor Dorinda said Carole didn't get fired, she quit.

Neither Ramona nor Dorinda posted a picture of the 3 of them with a Ramona caption of We Support Carole.

The Scream Team became the Silent Team on Social Media except for Carole and her 10000 accounts

[Baltimore Betty]

Two words about this reunion...Sonja's hair.

[FozzyBear]

8 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I think Bethenny is frustrated that a lot of these women have good ideas for products and yet FAIL TO FOLLOW THROUGH.  I was thrilled with the idea of Sonya coming up with a new model for a toaster oven--a product desperately in need of updating.  And Carole/Adam's book, "The Reluctant Vegan" -- also a timely idea.  Yet neither went anywhere.  Ramona DID have a wine, but Bethenny has pointed out that she had inconsistent branding with the different spellings/names.  Meanwhile, every one of Bethenny's announced ideas has come to fruition:  products, books, TV series.  I think that is the heart of her criticism:  they have lack of passion and follow-through.  

I actually thought Sonjia’s toaster oven was a good idea too. I loved toaster ovens, but they’re a little out of vogue so your options are often either cheap or expensive. I thought a mid-range toaster over in a updated design with maybe a toaster over cookbook or other accessories was a cute idea. If she had focused on that I could have seen it being a hit. I did not feel as optimistic about the soccer team.

[VioletMarx]

2 hours ago, Barbara Please said:

I'll  give Carole credit for is for going after Andy Cohen. He is the BIGGEST instigator, and loves to sit back and watch women fight, and make fools of themselves. I don't like her as a person, but I was impressed she called him out on his bs. Andy Cohen is misogynistic piece of trash. 

 

 

This is the truest thing in this whole thread. I remember when one of Andy's books came out and he told a story about how he had two girlfriends (girl friends) in high school and he would tell each one shit the other had said about her so he could sit back and watch them fight. He was giddy and so proud of himself as he recounted this. Now he's made a career out of it. He's a piece of shit. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by VioletMarx

[smores]

I really think most of the RHONY have always treated the show as a job vs having a group of BFFs.  It's a difference that I see from OC or BH with most of them, on OC, there's constant dramatics because you'd have the teams with Vicki and how this person was supposed to be her friend and now they're her sworn blood enemy or whatever.  But, the next year, they're back to her BFF! On RHONY, the women generally DO all like each other and have fun together, I think for the most part they actually all care for each other and consider each other to be friends, to a point.  Some have extended further into "real life" than others, but, they have a line where it's a relationship that they protect, regardless of what happens.  For the most part, you have a friend at work that you're close to, but, you don't cross certain lines, since things would get ugly and difficult if the friendship broke up.  So, you tend to keep things lighter.  That's how I see the RHONY, sure they have spats, Bethenny and Ramona last year, for example, but, they regain their equilibrium, and come back to a place where they both interact in a fairly positive way.  On BH, you have LVP and Kyle, though, who constantly have a push/pull of "show friendship" vs "real life" friendship and it seems like one or the other is always unhappy because they feel like lines are blurred and they've been wounded.  

Bethenny and Carole had a friendship that appeared to be more of an IRL friendship than a show friendship.  Things changed, that's cool.  Bethenny knows she's a lot.  Carole isn't wrong in feeling that way.  All she had to do, though, was say that to her, just say this is becoming too much, I need some space.  Carole would sort of disappear, Bethenny would ask about it, Carole would tell her now wasn't the time to ask, or give her reasons (valid, but not the heart of the matter, ie, I need space), why she wasn't around, and then make some sort of promise that they'd work through it later.  So, Bethenny was expecting that later to come.  That wasn't fair to do to her, just be straight up.  And I get that Carole doesn't like confrontation, but, if this is the way she chose to address the situation (oh, no, nothing is wrong, I've just been busy with x,y, z, we'll talk when I'm back in town), then she can't be mad at Bethenny for thinking that what Carole said was true.  That nothing was wrong and they'd talk.  Yet, when Bethenny showed up to talk, Carole clearly didn't want to talk, she was checked out, and Bethenny couldn't figure out why.  So Carole started coming up with all these reasons that Bethenny was wrong or being ridiculous, but, really most of this could have been avoided with a conversation that just said, "I'm overwhelmed, I need some space, you're a bit too intense for me"  I promise this would not be the first time Bethenny has heard this.  

[ancslove]

There were a few times this season when Bethenny told Carole that she felt that Carole didn't like her anymore/wasn't into her, and each time, Carole would deny it.  (And then usually her follow-up interview would be something vicious.)  Carole, for whatever reason, couldn't just say "Yes, that's how I feel", even when by the end, Bethenny was almost leading her toward the words.  After the blowup dinner in Cartagena (the same dinner of Luann vs Dorinda), Carole ended the argument by hugging Bethenny and saying she loved her.  That was after a whole day of telling everyone else how over Bethenny she was!  Bethenny seemed resigned to letting it end in Colombia, but Carole just wouldn't give her even that.

I remember once, Andy said that the NY women were the only ones who would always go out for dinner after taping the reunions.  I'm guessing they don't do that anymore! 

[albarino]

4 minutes ago, ancslove said:

There were a few times this season when Bethenny told Carole that she felt that Carole didn't like her anymore/wasn't into her, and each time, Carole would deny it.  (And then usually her follow-up interview would be something vicious.)

+1

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I think Bethenny is frustrated that a lot of these women have good ideas for products and yet FAIL TO FOLLOW THROUGH.  I was thrilled with the idea of Sonya coming up with a new model for a toaster oven--a product desperately in need of updating.  And Carole/Adam's book, "The Reluctant Vegan" -- also a timely idea.  Yet neither went anywhere.  Ramona DID have a wine, but Bethenny has pointed out that she had inconsistent branding with the different spellings/names.  Meanwhile, every one of Bethenny's announced ideas has come to fruition:  products, books, TV series.  I think that is the heart of her criticism:  they have lack of passion and follow-through.  

While Bethenny was still struggling and relying on rich boyfriends to help her pay rent, Ramona was already her own businesswoman making money hand over fist selling overstock to discount stores. During the show she was also able to bring her Pinot Grigio to market. There were legitimate questions about True Faith/TruRenewal, but that still can’t erase Ramona’s other accomplishments. 

Bethenny also thought that she needed to give Heather advice. Heather Thomson, who’d started Yummie Tummie and made millions off it before Bethenny had even come up with Skinnygirl let alone had the Beam contract. 

Even LuAnn has managed to get stuff to market via HSN (or something similar; I forget which).

Carole wrote her novel and had it published during her time on the show.

It’s not frustration with these women’s businesses guiding Bethenny. It’s that she really seems like the kind of person who thinks other people getting shine and praise diminishes her shine.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Mozelle

[gingerella]

24 minutes ago, smores said:

I really think most of the RHONY have always treated the show as a job vs having a group of BFFs.  It's a difference that I see from OC or BH with most of them, on OC, there's constant dramatics because you'd have the teams with Vicki and how this person was supposed to be her friend and now they're her sworn blood enemy or whatever.  But, the next year, they're back to her BFF! On RHONY, the women generally DO all like each other and have fun together, I think for the most part they actually all care for each other and consider each other to be friends, to a point.  Some have extended further into "real life" than others, but, they have a line where it's a relationship that they protect, regardless of what happens.  For the most part, you have a friend at work that you're close to, but, you don't cross certain lines, since things would get ugly and difficult if the friendship broke up.  So, you tend to keep things lighter.  That's how I see the RHONY, sure they have spats, Bethenny and Ramona last year, for example, but, they regain their equilibrium, and come back to a place where they both interact in a fairly positive way.  On BH, you have LVP and Kyle, though, who constantly have a push/pull of "show friendship" vs "real life" friendship and it seems like one or the other is always unhappy because they feel like lines are blurred and they've been wounded.  

Bethenny and Carole had a friendship that appeared to be more of an IRL friendship than a show friendship.  Things changed, that's cool.  Bethenny knows she's a lot.  Carole isn't wrong in feeling that way.  All she had to do, though, was say that to her, just say this is becoming too much, I need some space.  Carole would sort of disappear, Bethenny would ask about it, Carole would tell her now wasn't the time to ask, or give her reasons (valid, but not the heart of the matter, ie, I need space), why she wasn't around, and then make some sort of promise that they'd work through it later.  So, Bethenny was expecting that later to come.  That wasn't fair to do to her, just be straight up.  And I get that Carole doesn't like confrontation, but, if this is the way she chose to address the situation (oh, no, nothing is wrong, I've just been busy with x,y, z, we'll talk when I'm back in town), then she can't be mad at Bethenny for thinking that what Carole said was true.  That nothing was wrong and they'd talk.  Yet, when Bethenny showed up to talk, Carole clearly didn't want to talk, she was checked out, and Bethenny couldn't figure out why.  So Carole started coming up with all these reasons that Bethenny was wrong or being ridiculous, but, really most of this could have been avoided with a conversation that just said, "I'm overwhelmed, I need some space, you're a bit too intense for me"  I promise this would not be the first time Bethenny has heard this.  

Allow me to paint a word picture of how that conversation would likely have gone down:

(NOTE: Carole's lines are to be read slow and mellow, while Bethenny's lines are to be read at a manic pace in a choppy and aggressive manner)

 

CAROLE: "Bethanny, you know I adore you, but I'm just overwhelmed with a lot of things right now, and I need some alone time and space to clear my head. I'm dealing with one of my oldest friend's husband's dying and I need to focus on her and it's also bringing up a lot of memories of my husband dying...I just need *insert any of the following next* to step away from our friendship for awhile / take a break on our relationship / etc."

 

BETHENNY: "Oh, what?!? Whoa, so you need to take a BREAK from ME? Who takes a BREAK from their best friend?! Who DOES that?! I...I...I'm sorry, I dont get it! I just dont get it."

 

CAROLE: "I need to give all my attention to my friend who's grieving right now, and to be honest, as a friend, you demand a lot of attention and I just dont have that to give you right now. I'm sorry."

 

BETHENNY: "Oh, so I'm NEEDY?! Okay, sorry for wanting to SHARE my LIFE and MY THOUGHTS with MY FRIEND! I thought that's what friendships were about, but I GUESS I didn't get your PLAYbook! Maybe you can EMAIL it to me so I can know how to be a less DEMANDING FRIEND next time someone wants to BEFRIEND me!"

 

CAROLE: "Bethenny, that's not what I'm saying. I just need to place my focus on someone else for a while, someone who really needs me."

 

BETHENNY: "OH, so I dont REALLY NEED YOU enough is what you're saying. I get it. I need to have someone DIE so I can get the FULL CAROLE ATTENTION PROGRAM?!? Let me see if anyone I know is going to kick the bucket soon, okay?!? I'm sorry I dont have anyone DYING ON ME right now Carole, to warrant your FULL ATTENTION to our FRIENDSHIP!!!"

 

CAROLE: "Bethenny, see, this is why I need a break. You're just a lot, all the time. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I just need to focus elsewhere for the time being."

 

BETHENNY: "Fine. FINE. GO...Go place your ATTENTION on your friend with the DEAD HUSBAND! I need to spend time with my DAUGHTER anyway. It's FINE. GO. I'll just go the Hamptons with my DAUGHTER.  To be honest, I'm surprised at the TIMING...I mean, summer is starting and you spend the ENTIRE summer at MY HAMPTONS HOUSE, so I guess you'll be spending time at SOMEONE ELSE'S SUMMER house this year! Maybe your FRIEND with the DEAD HUSBAND can take you on better trips that I DO! It's fine, no REALLY Carole, you go do YOU, and I'll just go do ME....[insert about 96 more back and forths like this before Carole can extricate herself from this conversation once and for all].

****************************************************************

^^This^^ is why Carole could never have a normal "I need some space" convo with Bethenny. She's untenable in every convo like this. She has one response, righteous indignation, and who the fuck wants to deal with that when you just want to break up anyway? You'd hope the person would buy a clue and accept the situation, but Bethenny is anything but gracious in situations like this.

Edited August 31, 2018 by gingerella

[ShawnaLanne]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

If I recall correctly, Ramona said in a WWHL interview ... or maybe it was just on the show ... that being friends with Bethenny is exhausting.

Ooh. The insight from Ramona. Without Ramona how could we know? Lol.

Edited August 31, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[Rap541]

Quote

Ooh. The insight. Without Ramona how could we know? Lol.

Come now, my little caviar eating trash panda just drops these massive insights like bombs!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I would love to see her and Beth go at it, but Sara was positively boring to me on Shark Tanks.  I think she would bring nothing.

She wouldn't have to.

She would just give her a glance....then...ask B if she needs help reaching billionaire status

Instead of settling for being a millionaire.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I think Bethenny is frustrated that a lot of these women have good ideas for products and yet FAIL TO FOLLOW THROUGH.  I was thrilled with the idea of Sonya coming up with a new model for a toaster oven--a product desperately in need of updating.  And Carole/Adam's book, "The Reluctant Vegan" -- also a timely idea.  Yet neither went anywhere.  Ramona DID have a wine, but Bethenny has pointed out that she had inconsistent branding with the different spellings/names.  Meanwhile, every one of Bethenny's announced ideas has come to fruition:  products, books, TV series.  I think that is the heart of her criticism:  they have lack of passion and follow-through.  

Exactly! Ramona was upset that Beth didn't attend her launch party for Ageless By Ramona - a product that didn't exist at the time of the party, and still doesn't! The funny thing is, in the picture of Carole in the fugly blue sequined dress and Little House on the Prairie blouse, there is a logo of Ageless By Ramona in the background. And there is a website, but no product to promote. Just Ramona. And how in the world can you promote a product that has made you look ageless (supposedly) when it doesn't actually even exist? So something made Ramona look ageless (according to Ramona) but it wasn't her product. That would make me stabby, too. 

And Ramona calling someone else exhausting? Pot, kettle, ironic, etc. 

Edited to add - I am not on Twitter but for fun checked out Carole's feed. She is still ranting and raving about Beth. Checked out Beth's page - a picture of her dogs.  I am really beginning to wonder about Carole's mental stability. I also noticed that Carole has 323K followers, Beth has 1.59M. Almost 5 times as many followers as Carole. That has got to hurt Carole's massive ego. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Mrs peel]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Which, coming from Ramona, says a lot...

or not, Ramona is delusional about her own behavior!

[sasha206]

23 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

While Bethenny was still struggling and relying on rich boyfriends to help her pay rent, Ramona was already her own businesswoman making money hand over fist selling overstock to discount stores. During the show she was also able to bring her Pinot Grigio to market. There were legitimate questions about True Faith/TruRenewal, but that still can’t erase Ramona’s other accomplishments. 

Bethenny also thought that she needed to give Heather advice. Heather Thomson, who’d started Yummie Tummie and made millions off it before Bethenny had even come up with Skinnygirl let alone had the Beam contract. 

Even LuAnn has managed to get stuff to market via HSN (or something similar; I forget which).

Carole wrote her novel and had it published during her time on the show.

It’s not frustration with these women’s businesses guiding Bethenny. It’s that she really seems like the kind of person who thinks other people getting shine and praise diminishes her shine.

Exactly,  I can understand frustration at being expected to attend parties to celebrate products that don't exist.  However, has Bethenny ever actually said one kind thing about a woman's business that wasn't her own?

Hell, Jules got advice...on construction that was ongoing.  Erika Jayne received advice on her videos...and she had already made some.  Kristen with the "pop of colour" line.    Has Bethenny ever had ANYTHING positive to say about the career of a mate or acquaintance?  I realize part of the HW game and her schtick is to snark on everything, but at some point, the constant drumbeat of her being all knowing about any type of business on the planet is irritating.

I also find it hard watching the way Beth treats her staff.  Being a boss doesn't mean being everyone's best friend but she is demeaning to them in my opinion.  In a way that I can't imagine Heather or Carole ever being.  

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Ageless By Ramona - a product that didn't exist at the time of the party, and still doesn't!

Yup

https://www.bustle.com/p/can-you-buy-ramonas-skincare-line-from-real-housewives-of-new-york-ageless-by-ramona-might-be-hard-to-track-down-10075649

https://agelessbyramona.com/

Kinda like when Dwight Eubanks (RHOA) quipped about She by Sheree:

"A fashion show with no fashions? How dreadful,"....or words to that effect

Edited August 31, 2018 by artisto

[AnnA]

Carole has a staff?

[WhoaWhoKnew]

3 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Exactly,  I can understand frustration at being expected to attend parties to celebrate products that don't exist.  However, has Bethenny ever actually said one kind thing about a woman's business that wasn't her own?

Hell, Jules got advice...on construction that was ongoing.  Erika Jayne received advice on her videos...and she had already made some.  Kristen with the "pop of colour" line.    Has Bethenny ever had ANYTHING positive to say about the career of a mate or acquaintance?  I realize part of the HW game and her schtick is to snark on everything, but at some point, the constant drumbeat of her being all knowing about any type of business on the planet is irritating.

I also find it hard watching the way Beth treats her staff.  Being a boss doesn't mean being everyone's best friend but she is demeaning to them in my opinion.  In a way that I can't imagine Heather or Carole ever being.  

Business is literally all Bethenny has in life that she can say is better than the other HWs,  so she has to shove it in others' faces.

[VedaPierce]

1 hour ago, FozzyBear said:

So I will say that Bethanny kind of excels at this. She has told cast members “I don’t like you and we’re not friends” multiple times and then gone on to film the rest of the season with them. Often she’s not even all that mean to them either (on both the sliding scale of Real Housewife behavior and Bethany behavior). She just exists near them. I’m not saying it’s the “right” thing to do, but I guess that’s how you do it.  

Of course, I’m not sure Carole really had it in her to tell Bethany she just didn’t like her and release all her anger and then move on. Carole has been my BEC since her first second on the show, but I sympathize with her here. I try to imagine myself having that conversation and I just can’t picture it. It’s really not in me. I have a real life example I’m going through. Nothing as extreme, but a friendship I am reevaluating. So I get the thing Carole says she was trying to do with just sort of restructuring the friendship because I’m in that process myself. Of course I’m also aware that I’m contributing to the dynamic and that this person hasn’t changed and isn’t actually doing anything she hasn’t been doing for years. It’s fine for me to say “I can’t do this to the extent I have before” it’s not ok for me to pretend I’m an innocent victim of a machevellian plot. I need to be honest with myself about what’s really going on. I don’t think Carole is.

My dear friend calls it “having shit on your mustache”, as in, when you have shit on your mustache towards someone, everything they do stinks. Sometimes a friend just works a nerve one too many times and I will develop shit on my mustache. Even the most minor infractions drive me crazy. Time apart usually cures it. I can see Bethenny running very hot in a friendship. Very intense. Taking Carole on vacations, texting all day every day...etc. those type of intense relationships burn out very fast, very dramatically. If Bethenny had a bit more insight, she would have pulled back a bit and taken a break. It would have lowered the intensity level. But the whole thing got so ugly on both of their parts and just spun so out of control, it’s unrecoverable. 

[smores]

38 minutes ago, gingerella said:

^^This^^ is why Carole could never have a normal "I need some space" convo with Bethenny. She's untenable in every convo like this. She has one response, righteous indignation, and who the fuck wants to deal with that when you just want to break up anyway? You'd hope the person would buy a clue and accept the situation, but Bethenny is anything but gracious in situations like this.

(I snipped just for space)

I disagree, because Bethenny has had conversations like this with people.  Look at part one of the reunion.  She's clashing with Ramona, they're going back and forth over the fact that Ramona thinks Bethenny wasn't supportive of her "product."  Bethenny is explaining that she doesn't have a product (which, right now she doesn't).  Ramona keeps at it and starts in on how she isn't supportive, how she was mean to Sonja, etc, etc.  It gets more heated.  At some point, though, Bethenny does get it, it clicks that even if she knows Ramona has no product, she hurt Ramona by not at least saying, I'm sorry I can't go.  So, she apologizes.  And she tells Ramona that her delivery sucked (her being Bethenny's delivery).  

This has happened several times.  Sure, Bethenny is prickly, and sure she doesn't always hear the message right away.  But, she DOES get it, and she sees that she said things the wrong way, or she should have just not said what she did.  She's acknowledged that she shouldn't have said that Adam was an operator, that if she hadn't said it, maybe nothing would have happened with Carole.  Was it the worst thing ever to say?  Honestly. no.  It's really probably true.  But, to Carole, it was a betrayal, and so as a friend, she shouldn't have said it.  

I think Bethenny would have been hurt by the conversation, she might have tried to argue a bit, but, she likely would have ended up by saying, look, I get it.  I'm a lot, I know it.  I love you, you're my friend, and I'm sorry if I hurt you.  It might take her a few minutes to get to that point, but, she DOES consistently get there.

[film noire]

9 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I never got the impression from Carole (and I read her book) that she had a burning desire to be a mom ever.  Of course, this could also be a defense mechanism as well.  

I thought there was some yearning in her when Carole talked about being one of those moms with a double wide stroller.

I think you might be right that it's possibly a defense mechanism, not wanting to be robbed of yet one more thing -- because pragmatically, she was robbed of any real choice. Anthony Radziwill died ten days before Carole's 36th birthday, a year past the age at which a pregnancy is considered "geriatric". So assuming she was of average fertility, she had very few "good summers left" to become pregnant. From the moment she scattered Anthony's ashes into the wind, she had maybe 36 to 40 months to handle the aftermath of the funeral, go home, grieve,  get over the grieving enough to socialize and see a few friends....and then start dating. Maybe meet a guy she might like...nope, not him, no future with him. Date again - eight or eighteen men -- find a man she might like....turns out, yes! Miracle of miracles, only their fifth date and they're serious about each other. So they move in together; get engaged, get married -- or just fly to vegas -- and then get pregnant, right away, and bring it to term -- no miscarriages or chromosomal issues associated with (that awful name again) a geriatric pregnancy. All in three years, maybe four if she's super fertile. Or willing to undergo drugs and needles and treatments, reminiscent of her years with Anthony. Most women who have never experienced tragedy would be lucky meeting that tight a schedule -- moving from single woman to happy wife and mother -- never mind a wife turned widow after a half decade of brutal cancer treatments and no closure.

Whatever the truth for Carole (wanted, maybe wanted, not sure if she wanted, never wanted, felt the yearning anyway) Frankel turned Carole's dead husband into a punchline, demeaned Carole's career and went for hardcore Bethy the Bitch Bingo by throwing in motherhood for good measure. All while claiming to "love" Carole. Sounds pretty toxic to me.

 

7 hours ago, gingerella said:

BETHENNY: "Fine. FINE. Go...Go place your ATTENTION on your friend with the dead husband. I need to spend time with my DAUGHTER anyway! It's FINE. GO. I'll just go the Hamptons with my DAUGHTER.  To be honest, I'm surprised at the TIMING...I mean, summer is starting and you spend the entire SUMMER AT MY HAMPTONS HOUSE, so I guess you'll be spending time at SOMEONE ELSE'S SUMMER house this year! It's fine, no REALLY Carole, you go do YOU, and I'll just go do ME....[insert about 96 more back and forths like this before Carole can extricate herself from this conversation once and for all].

 

Brava!

Edited September 1, 2018 by film noire
removed off topic joke about ramona

[smores]

Noodles.  Ramona has noodles.

And pinot and turtles.  Drunk turtles who need noodles.

[FozzyBear]

56 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Allow me to paint a word picture of how that conversation would likely have gone down:

(NOTE: Carole's lines are to be read slow and mellow, while Bethenny's lines are to be read at a manic pace in a choppy and aggressive manner)

 

CAROLE: "Bethanny, you know I adore you, but I'm just overwhelmed with a lot of things right now, and I need some alone time and space to clear my head. I'm dealing with one of my oldest friend's husband's dying and I need to focus on her and it's also bringing up a lot of memories of my husband dying...I just need *insert any of the following next* to step away from our friendship for awhile / take a break on our relationship / etc."

 

BETHENNY: "Oh, what?!? Whoa, so you need to take a BREAK from ME? Who takes a BREAK from their best friend?! Who DOES that?! I...I...I'm sorry, I dont get it! I just dont get it."

 

CAROLE: "I need to give all my attention to my friend who's grieving right now, and to be honest, as a friend, you demand a lot of attention and I just dont have that to give you right now. I'm sorry."

 

BETHENNY: "Oh, so I'm NEEDY?! Okay, sorry for wanting to SHARE my LIFE and MY THOUGHTS with MY FRIEND! I thought that's what friendships were about, but I GUESS I didn't get your PLAYbook! Maybe you can EMAIL it to me so I can know how to be a less DEMANDING FRIEND next time someone wants to BEFRIEND me!"

 

CAROLE: "Bethenny, that's not what I'm saying. I just need to place my focus on someone else for a while, someone who really needs me."

 

BETHENNY: "OH, so I dont REALLY NEED YOU enough is what you're saying. I get it. I need to have someone DIE so I can get the FULL CAROLE ATTENTION PROGRAM?!? Let me see if anyone I know is going to kick the bucket soon, okay?!? I'm sorry I dont have anyone DYING ON ME right now Carole, to warrant your FULL ATTENTION to our FRIENDSHIP!!!"

 

CAROLE: "Bethenny, see, this is why I need a break. You're just a lot, all the time. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I just need to focus elsewhere for the time being."

 

BETHENNY: "Fine. FINE. GO...Go place your ATTENTION on your friend with the DEAD HUSBAND! I need to spend time with my DAUGHTER anyway. It's FINE. GO. I'll just go the Hamptons with my DAUGHTER.  To be honest, I'm surprised at the TIMING...I mean, summer is starting and you spend the ENTIRE summer at MY HAMPTONS HOUSE, so I guess you'll be spending time at SOMEONE ELSE'S SUMMER house this year! Maybe your FRIEND with the DEAD HUSBAND can take you on better trips that I DO! It's fine, no REALLY Carole, you go do YOU, and I'll just go do ME....[insert about 96 more back and forths like this before Carole can extricate herself from this conversation once and for all].

****************************************************************

^^This^^ is why Carole could never have a normal "I need some space" convo with Bethenny. She's untenable in every convo like this. She has one response, righteous indignation, and who the fuck wants to deal with that when you just want to break up anyway? You'd hope the person would buy a clue and accept the situation, but Bethenny is anything but gracious in situations like this.

Ok,

1. That made my laughter out loud. Applause.

2. From my perspective on the show (and this is just my perspective) that actually sounds more like Ramona then Bethany. I think Bethany could have had that conversation. I’m not saying she would like it or that it would have been a pleasant conversation, but I think she could have walked away knowing that she and Carole aren’t friends anymore and sort of moved on to a party chit-chat relationship. Bethany spent half the season practically begging Carole to have this very conversation so they could be done. Carole wouldn’t do it. 

[Chalby]

15 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

Ok,

1. That made my laughter out loud. Applause.

2. From my perspective on the show (and this is just my perspective) that actually sounds more like Ramona then Bethany. I think Bethany could have had that conversation. I’m not saying she would like it or that it would have been a pleasant conversation, but I think she could have walked away knowing that she and Carole aren’t friends anymore and sort of moved on to a party chit-chat relationship. Bethany spent half the season practically begging Carole to have this very conversation so they could be done. Carole wouldn’t do it. 

Excellent point. However, if Carole allowed Bethenny to clear the air earlier, Carole wouldn't have had ANY storyline, lol. Carole has proven herself incapable of having more than one close friend at a time, and Bethenny prefers to funnel her manic attention into only one friend at a time. I will say that Bethenny hasn't had a lot of luck with female 'close friends'. Whenever she lets her guard down and shares her personal issues, her sharing eventually gets thrown back in her face and made public. Even then, she only resorts to blabbing back if she's really hurt. She and Luann make for compatible friends because they both try to reign in, and not spill, their darkest secrets. Bethenny represented Luann very well during the reunion.

[smores]

It's kind of funny, I seem to remember before the season started there was a whole big buzz about Carole and Bethenny having "beef" and there was a lot of speculation that it was for show to give Carole a storyline.  Carole was out there talking about Bethenny and shit she had done, why they had distance, etc, and Bethenny wasn't really talking much, other than saying they weren't super close at the moment, but would work stuff out.  So, it read (before the show aired) like they had agreed that they'd have a spat for Carole to have a storyline this seaon and they'd make up partway through.  Obviously it turns out not to be the case, but, that does also seem to put more of the weight on the Carole changing the dynamic, as Bethenny was thinking it was a bump and they'd work through whatever it was, while Carole was out there taking shots and talking about how they'd had a rift.

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, AnnA said:

Carole has a staff?

Maybe they were referring to that wooden thing with straw bristles at the end.

[jaync]

Quote

She sure is milking this last 15 minutes of the spotlight.

Apparently, it's working - she's being discussed more than ever, getting more views/visitors to her SM, and there's a renewed interest in reading/re-reading What Remains. 

It has to burn Beth that Carole's wardrobe (good or bad) gets so much attention, while her own clothes and SG jeans bear indifference. 

Quote

Ramona was upset that Beth didn't attend her launch party for Ageless By Ramona - a product that didn't exist at the time of the party, and still doesn't!

And Ramona attended Beth's fashion show for a product that, almost a year later, still isn't available for purchase.

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:04 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

The thing I don't understand is that Carole has bragged often on the show that she is lazy, didn't meet the one or two deadlines she has had, and lied to an editor on camera that she had almost finished the fluff article she wrote for Cosmo when she had not even started it. Then she gets upset when someone points out that she does not have a current career of any importance? You can't have it both ways, Carole. Either you care about a career and actually work at it, or you are happy to do nothing and brag about it. Pick a lane. 

As an author, Carole Radziwilll wrote 3 books - Let's give book #3 some time in the spotlight The Madcap Tales Of My Year On RHONY

This book was a compilation of her weekly blogs from Season 5.

This book tanked even more than Widow's Guide, I think Caroline Manzo's "Let Me Tell You Something" book did better.

To be fair, Carole has a current career of making poor life choices.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, Barbara Please said:

Andy Cohen is misogynistic piece of trash. 

I second the motion.

[RosieRose221]

On 8/30/2018 at 1:44 AM, walnutqueen said:

When Dorinda was adamantly downplaying her drunken tirades and spinning her circle of denial, I couldn't help but blurt out "You're such a fucking liar, Camille Dorinda!".  Yup,  I watch all these Housewives shitshows, and am not ashamed to admit it.  Feel free to call me Bravo's bitch.

 

ME TOO!!! LIKE EVERYTHING EXCEPT MARRIED TO MEDICINE BC I COULDNT GET INTO IT AND I DONT FOLLOW DALLAS AS WELL AS THE OTHERS.  OH AND I LOVE SOUTHERN CHARM BUT DONT WATCH THE SPINOFF -SAVANNAH IS IT?? BUT I LOVE ME SOME BRAVO!!