S10.E21: Reunion Part 2

[red12]

2 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

If it didn't happen on camera, according to Dorinda, it doesn't count.

I hope they did and I understand why they wouldn't want to do it on camera. But I don't believe it. They backed her wackiness too deeply on air.

My suspicion on why Dorinda's issues aren't fully addressed on air is because it's not just alcohol. The actual substance abuse occurs off camera but, viewers see and can verify her behavior after seeing her drink. I believe this is part of why Dorinda can push the narrative that there is not a problem and "everyone drinks". Viewers don't and won't see her popping pills or snorting anything so, it didn't happen.

Didn't Sonja go down in flames a season or two ago referring to Dorinda doing coke? That might be part of why she and Ramona both appeared to be so quiet in last night's episode when Dorinda's problem came up for discussion. 

[Mozelle]

2 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Thank you. Exactly.

And in all honesty, this debate isn't about Carole for me. It's about the fact that Bethenny presents herself as the only one who's ever had a child, a career, a divorce, a troubled childhood, etc. She can never commiserate with anyone or show empathy. She can show sympathy, as she does with Lu, because it elevates her position and leverage in the friendship. And that, as has been shown over the last 10 years, is all that interests Bethenny.

She has NEVER acknowledged or celebrated Carole's writing success in any way. She often makes fun of it, and of Carole's deceased husband. Those are facts. She denigrates Ramona as having no career when that is patently false. If you do have a career she can use to promote her own, then you might stay out of the line of fire. But she has often made fun of Luann And Sonja, Tins, etc. Again, it's not about Carole (who I don't even LIKE but whose esteemed career I do RESPECT), it's about the pattern of behavior Bethenny displays that she is never called out on, until now.

Based on the above, you'd think to yourself, oh ok, maybe Bethenny just has no use for people who don't have to work. Maybe she wants to hang out with women who are just as driven as she is. But history disproves this as well. Jill has a career. Bethenny went after her and took her down and used her husband's funeral for camera time. If Jill was complicit in it, so be it. But it was gross all the way around.

Look at Heather Thomson. That's the kind of woman you'd think Beth would want to be around. Truly successful, active career, has children, is married, does charity work. How did Beth treat her? Oh right, she hated her on sight. I don't need to connect the dots here. Every time Bethenny behaves the way she does, she makes Ramona sound like the Dalai Lama. She does not support other women in business. She does push away everyone who wants to get close to her. When you're making Ramona look utterly perceptive, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

But here is what I gleaned from last night's reunion that really bothers me, and what I think is the root of the annoyance of the other women: Beth is the NY franchise. Only a fool would deny it. Just like Vicki runs OC and Teresa runs NJ and LVP owns BH. It would take a stick of dynamite or a nuclear fallout to get them off their respective shows. However, none of them get the protection Bethenny receives from Andy. Vicki has handled horrible reunions, Teresa had to deal with her fame-whore SIL being brought on the show specifically to lead a mutiny against her, etc. Beth never has and never will reckon with any of the horrible things she says or does, because for some reason, Andy goes to bat for her and then boots her detractors from the show. The other women are sick of the double standard and special treatment. They're all sitting on the couch to be held accountable. Bethenny is never held accountable. And the sick thing is that when any of them get within a hair's breath of exposing her, the apple is snatched. No one wants to play a fixed game you can't win, and that's what this franchise has become since B came back. You think Sonja likes B? Hell no. She's TERRIFIED of her, and she's going to bat for her to keep her paycheck.  

Bravissimo! What also gets me about Bethenny is that I don't really think she's altruistic. I think she does things for the accolades, and she figures that people won't challenge her on it. It was brought up last week how she sought out these women who weren't participating in the filming shenanigans, only for the fiction to be spun that the women seek her out in times of trial. She's no different than Dorinda, who wanted a congratulations on camera. 

Bethenny has also created this fiction that Carole is a "taker" because Carole--according to Sonja, mind--called her a[n emotional] taker. Now the story is that either (1) without Bethenny, Carole would not have had access to vacations *skeptical emoji here* or (2) that Carole uses people and becomes friends with people based on what she can get from them. Bethenny, she of the dating rich men who would pay her rent, has the audacity to call someone a taker. 

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

Thanks, Quinn. I wanted to make sure I was remembering correctly. In that context, I don't think it's so terrible. Unnecessary to say out loud? Sure.

But it's not like Beth said something like:

"You're nothing because you've never had a job baby." 

Who would SAY something like that? Hmmmm? ?

I wish they had shown the clip of Carole saying that to Aviva - lol. 

In Beth's case, she said it in a talking head. As far as I know, producers ask the howives questions, and what is shown is their answers. So the producer asked Beth why her friendship with Carole had waned whereas Carole's friendship with Tins had strengthened. Beth listing Carole and Tins's commonalities seems like a no brainer to me, not a dig and something that should not have been uttered out loud. 

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Tinsley is over 40.  It’s hard to find a guy at that age.  Scott is a decent guy, never married, no kids, has a job, and seems nice.  He has no baggage so it seems. 

OMG!!! What a mean thing to point out! Scott has never had kids? Wow. What a low blow. He must be curled up in a corner if he has read this terrible, terrible post! 

For some reason it is considered an insult when directed at a woman, and fact when directed at a man. In reality it is a fact for either sex. 

I loved your no baggage comment, Gem 10. You would not believe how many of my husband's male friends and relatives told my hubby how lucky he was to be marrying someone with no ex and no kids. As a matter of fact, friends and relatives point out to me often that I don't have kids - usually as in how lucky I am not to have kids. My sister did it just a couple of days ago and her kids are in their 40s/50s. She loves her kids, obviously, but as the saying goes a parent is only as happy as their unhappiest child, and that includes adult children. She told me that I am very lucky that I have cats - lol. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Sharonana]

After all is said and done, the crux of the matter is that a friendship has ended...a friendship that used to be close and fun and enjoyable to watch. Now they just snip and snipe at each other trying to prove who is right. They were both wrong and both have said hurtful things. They both feel the need to defend themselves. They are both in pain and hurting over that loss, and it's no longer fun to watch. For some reason they just couldn't make their way back to each other. I think that perhaps they could have benefited from some counseling to help them figure out how their relationship went south. Now here we are nitpicking their words to death trying to be just as right. I understand that's what these forums are about, but it's pointless to me. In the end, it's Bethenny and Carole that have suffered the loss of a friendship that used to be important to them. And that's all I got to say about that! :P

 

And I still like Dorinda, so there! LOL!

[ivygirl]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

I like Tinsley.  She’s very sweet, thoughtful, has manners and doesn’t bash anyone.  I really hope she comes back and has a story line.  She’s different than the rest and that’s refreshing.

I like her, too. I want her back, and maybe they can replace Carole with someone in Tinsley’s extended circle.  

1 hour ago, Ki-in said:

Please stop buying into that myth. I have a friend who is in her early 60's and not only did she recently get married but she married a man these women would claw each other tooth and nail for.  He is a multi millionaire and could have his pick of any 20 yo but he chose wisely. She went from having a used car that she had to worry about how much gas she could afford to a new Jag and from 3 pairs of comfortable shoes to a walk in closet a la LVP filled to the brim with designer shoes/clothes. All they do is travel the world now.  Miracles happen and dreams can come true...at any age :-)

But does she have a career now? I kid, I kid. ;)

56 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Dorinda/John in Dorinda's Berkshire house and Sonja walks in in her lingerie, flirting with John. Kristen and Sonja dancing and making a Fudgie The Whale Sandwich. I don't think Dorinda liked that.

Aww, Fudgie! We used to have a Carvel in my neck of the woods but I just googled and now it’s gone. So no Fudgie for me. But it reminds me of my family in NY. 

Comparing John to Fudgie almost seems sacreligious. But very NY appropriate at the same time. LOL

[cheewhiz]

12 hours ago, ryebread said:

Including her reading glasses. 

Her reading glasses....Shades of Sophia Petrillo (Golden Girls)

[UsernameFatigue]

Did anyone else think it was odd that Dorinda said that she is now seeing a therapist once every two weeks? That she could not commit to once a week, but is fine with once every two weeks? I mean good for her for going at all - I think it is several years overdue. But what exactly would stop her from going for an hour once a week? Her only job is filming for a few months a year on RHONY. It just seemed to me like she may be going only to get people off her back regarding her drinking, but not really committing? Which is ironic since she implied that Lu only went to rehab (the first time) to get out of going to jail. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[KungFuBunny]

15 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

He can't resist the promo that he gets for his company. All he has to do is string her along a little bit... she'll take anything...

I found Tinsley's reunion bit incredibly sad.

They break up often and it is never for anything specific. He dates other women whenever they break up.

She thinks he's so focused on work, that he can't have both - a girlfriend and his business.

She's not going to lose him over him dating another girl for a little bit.

She thinks they will be engaged soon-ish.

Does Tinsley understand that if Scott every proposes - they will be engaged "Long-ish"?

Does Tinsley understand that if Scott ever marries her - he will be "Cheat-ish"?

If Tinsley thinks he's so focused on his work and doesn't think he can have both his business and Tinsley, what makes her think she can add marriage and a baby into the mix?

Does Tinsley not get he's probably seeing other women even while they are not broken up?

She has no self-esteem and that makes me so sad for her.

Edited August 30, 2018 by KungFuBunny

[Rap541]

Quote

I don't think the problem is whether or not being childless is the truth, it is how it was intended and it was intended as a barb.  

Honestly, if you intentionally choose to not have children - and by all reports, Carole isn't infertile - then you don't get to complain how you really wanted a baby maybe when your childlessness comes up. As it is, I lean towards "this is how you're similar to Tinsley" as to why it even came up.

As for her writing career... I think What Remains is a good book. I think it was a bestseller because Carole was married to a prince who was besties with JFK Jr who died tragically. The aura of America's Camelot surrounds Carole, and I don't mean to sound callous but would anyone care who Carole was if she wasn't married to the prince who was JFK JR's buddy? Who died so tragically and mysteriously and wrapped in the cloak of the Kennedy mystique? If you don't think such things matter when it comes to publishing books, guess again.

As for two books since - I know about the Widow's Guide  - it was hardly successful, and the dreadful "I'm publishing my blog" book isn't even available unless one is really willing to shell out (46 bucks for a used copy on Amazon) and I can't help but note that reality show whores can pretty much publish nonsense because publishers know fans will buy stuff. Carole does have a writing career but honestly she's never NOT been attached to fame.

But that's just me. I doubt Carole would have been published if she was Carole DiFalco and her dead husband was a truck driver.

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Awwww...is this you helping my cousins?

 

You're welcome regarding the GIFs - I'll throw you a new one of my latest Dorinda - semi lucid not yet slurring. If you look closely I'm saying Jovani!

From Wikipedia re Anthony

Around 1989 he was diagnosed with testicular cancer and underwent treatment which left him sterile but in apparent remission. However, shortly before his wedding, new tumors emerged. Radziwiłł battled metastasizing cancer throughout his five years of marriage, with his wife, Carole, serving as his primary caretaker through a succession of oncologists, hospitals, operations, and experimental treatments.

Anthony and Carole married in 1994. There is no indication that Anthony stored sperm before undergoing treatment 5 years before marrying Carole. Had he done that there was no reason Carole couldn't have had a baby when they married or after he passed other than she didn't want his baby or a baby. Carole said what she said at the reunion to play victim and draw the sympathy card - didn't work for me.

Carole SUX - bitch bye!

I had forgotten that Anthony was diagnosed and became serile several years before he and Carole married. Thanks for the reminder. 

Love the first bunny GIF. That is pretty much what our remaining bunnies look like at "banana time", their favourite treat. And yes, second bunny is definitely saying Jovani! Lol. Coincidentally, he is also wearing Dorinda's clown makeup lipstick! 

[Maccagirl]

14 hours ago, hottesthw said:

The drug addict who od's, and at the time of filming had no relationship with anyone on the show. 

Proof positive Andy is afraid of Bethenny.

Wow, just wow.  I find that very insensitive in many ways, for many reasons.  You have no idea if he was an "addict" or not.  My husband has a debilitating chronic back injury he has been dealing with for over 25 years and he has to take Oxy daily just to be able to think past the pain that overtakes .  Everyone who uses Oxy is not a stereotypical "drug addict" which is what your post seemed to imply.   Dennis was not enough of a character on this show to warrant your smug label of an addict, just so you can slam Andy Cohen. 

[Ki-in]

19 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Honestly, if you intentionally choose to not have children - and by all reports, Carole isn't infertile - then you don't get to complain how you really wanted a baby maybe when your childlessness comes up. As it is, I lean towards "this is how you're similar to Tinsley" as to why it even came up.

 

But that's just me. I doubt Carole would have been published if she was Carole DiFalco and her dead husband was a truck driver.

Exactly.

Why didn't the doctors have Anthony put some sperm in a sperm bank the first time before any treatment rendered him sterile? Carole could have easily frozen her eggs like Tinsley (and Brigitte Neilson who froze hers and just recently had a baby in her late 50's). Carole was only 35, she could have moved on with someone else but being the widow Radziwill has cache.

Also, in season 9 Carole told her mother (after reminding her mother that she was married to Anthony and friends with John-John and Carolyn) that she was perfectly fine with not having children.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ki-in

[UsernameFatigue]

29 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Honestly, if you intentionally choose to not have children - and by all reports, Carole isn't infertile - then you don't get to complain how you really wanted a baby maybe when your childlessness comes up. As it is, I lean towards "this is how you're similar to Tinsley" as to why it even came up.

As for her writing career... I think What Remains is a good book. I think it was a bestseller because Carole was married to a prince who was besties with JFK Jr who died tragically. The aura of America's Camelot surrounds Carole, and I don't mean to sound callous but would anyone care who Carole was if she wasn't married to the prince who was JFK JR's buddy? Who died so tragically and mysteriously and wrapped in the cloak of the Kennedy mystique? If you don't think such things matter when it comes to publishing books, guess again.

As for two books since - I know about the Widow's Guide  - it was hardly successful, and the dreadful "I'm publishing my blog" book isn't even available unless one is really willing to shell out (46 bucks for a used copy on Amazon) and I can't help but note that reality show whores can pretty much publish nonsense because publishers know fans will buy stuff. Carole does have a writing career but honestly she's never NOT been attached to fame.

But that's just me. I doubt Carole would have been published if she was Carole DiFalco and her dead husband was a truck driver.

I read What Remains a dozen years ago. I did so because of the JKF Jr connection. Some here have posted regarding parts of the book where Carole talks about her childhood. I don't even remember those parts, or maybe I skipped them. I do that if I find an author going on and on about something I don't care about. 

Speaking of JFK Jr on an unrelated note, I see his former girlfriend Darryl Hannah married Neil Young. On a very shallow note, talk about going from one end of the spectrum looks wise, to the other. But then I have never been a Neil Young fan so don't see the attraction on any level. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Happy Camper]

3 hours ago, Wicked said:

They're both right and they're both wrong.  What really matters is the whole thing is boring as hell.

I did get caught up in this B v C thing but now I'm dizzy, please let me off this scary Merry Go Round. It's not fun anymore.

I just had to pop over to OC to get a glimpse of Archie.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Happy Camper

[TV Diva Queen]

I floved watching the moment Carole got fired.  Oh and Carole - throw out those readers. NOW!  

[VioletHues]

1 hour ago, ancslove said:

One thing about Adam:  Carole seems to view Adam as an extension of herself.  It’s not enough for Bethenny to stand up for Carole, she also has to shut down any negative talk about Adam. 

I thought that was very strange.

[RosieRose221]

13 hours ago, tribeca said:

Would Carole really get fired for those things?   Didn’t Teresa from NJ push him down one year?   She’s still working.  

I did have a boss in the past that it would have been so worth it to tell her and get fired LOL.  

that was years ago plus when she pushed him her anger wasnt directed at him it was just to get him out of the way LOL

[KungFuBunny]

9 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I had forgotten that Anthony was diagnosed and became serile several years before he and Carole married. Thanks for the reminder. 

Love the first bunny GIF. That is pretty much what our remaining bunnies look like at "banana time", their favourite treat. And yes, second bunny is definitely saying Jovani! Lol. Coincidentally, he is also wearing Dorinda's clown makeup lipstick! 

Yes my Bunny and or other inspired Dorinda GIFS usually have red lips.

Just a reminder of what Tinsley said to Carole in Vermont:

RHONY newbie Tinsley Mortimer isn’t exactly doing well. All of this becomes even more evident during the ladies’ trip to Vermont, as dinner takes a very dramatic, tear-stained turn. After months of denial, Tinsley knocks back a few glasses of pinot noir and admits she would like to get married again, ASAP. Everyone is debating the best way for the socialite to find the man of her dreams when Tinsley cracks apart. "At the end of the day, I’m forty-fucking-one, I do not have children like all of you," she rants. Somehow, this emotional complaint turns into an attack against 53-year-old Carole. "You didn’t want one, whatever," she declares between tears, pointing directly at Carole. The moment doesn’t come off as a clarification, like Carole is being called out for going childfree. That’s evidenced by the former journalist’s shocked face and her body literally rearing back in surprise.

Tinsley tries to pretend she didn’t just take a verbal swipe at Carole and her choice to avoid motherhood, but it doesn’t exactly land. "I’m just saying you didn’t want one! I’m just saying, like, stop!" Tinsley screams at her co-star, confusingly making Carole the bad guy, before turning back into a pool of tears. Although it’s hard to watch Tinsley call out her friend for not having kids, at least we can understand why. It’s obvious Tinsley is desperate to become a mom and sadly thinks she’s losing her chance every single day she gets older. Unlike Carole, who’s happy in her modern-with-a-capital-M relationship with a much younger man, Tinsley isn’t comfortable being childfree.

This is a quote from Carole:

"I knew that [late husband Anthony Radziwill] couldn't have kids, and that wasn't in any way a deal-breaker for me. I just wasn't that girl who dreamed about getting married and having children. Those weren't the priorities for me. Now, looking back, I think it would have been nice to have a child. But I'm not going to sit around and mope about it."

Also, thinking back I seem to recall Ramona saying Carole couldn't relate because she doesn't have any kids.

So Bethenny having said Carole doesn't have any kids - was NOT the first one to say this.

[ryebread]

2 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

So Bethenny having said Carole doesn't have any kids - was NOT the first one to say this.

I think Luann said it too. And I seem to remember that when Luann said it, the context made it seem cruel.

That said, I am more convinced than ever that Carole threw that out last night at the reunion about how she would have had a child if Anthony had lived as self-serving and pity mongering.

[gingerella]

12 hours ago, TOL said:

I completely agree with this entire post.  All of it.  And will add that at various points Bethenny was weepy on camera with the others when talking about Carole.  She seemed to be genuinely confused and missing Carole and what they had.  And  the girls all saying “You should just work it out” and minimize the situation doesn’t help.  

Bethenny is lonely.  People leave her.  No matter how mean it was, Ramona was right in what she said when they were on the Brooklyn bridge years ago.  But Carole would know better than anyone that she could have handled this breakup differently.  

Bethanny is lonely because people leave her *because* she is bat shit crazy and if you’re not paying attention to her 110%, she has tantrums until you give her what she wants or she decides to ice you out under a barrage of nasty gossip she generates. I don’t think it’s  humanly possible to break up a friendship with Bethany without her losing her shit and going kamikaze on your ass. You can do it the adult way, as you might with a normal person, but the problem is that Bethany isn’t normal, she exhibits behaviors that, at best, a therapist might diagnose as a personality disorder, and st worst, is just fucking deranged. So I disagree, there is no way Carole could win with this situation. What I saw all season was Carole not being willing to give in to B’s bullshit and calling her out when B came at her. Good for Carole, god knows nobody ever stands up to B unless they’re hiding behind someone else, like Carole, Heather, etc.

 

BTW, I noticed how angry B was that Carole referred to her as a narcissist. That? Seemed like to her like the most horrible of grievances, and it was telling because to a narcissist, being called out as such IS one of the worst things you can do because they will push back ferociously at anyone who attempts to shine a light on who they really are. If someone called me a narcissist I would likely laugh and ask them how they came to that’s conclusion, but B reacted just as I would expect anyone with a personality disorder to react when being called out. She really needs to be in a hospital/clinical setting with real psych professionals IMO. I honestly think she also needs meds but she’ll likely never get the help she really needs because all her issues are the fault of everyone around her, but never herself. If you have issues with everyone around you and have a history of people leaving you like Moses and his People exiting the Egyptian desert, then maybe, juuuuust maybe, you ought to look in the mirror and acknowledge where the real problem lies.

 

ETA: I think B & C became friends  because they were closer in age and style than the others, but that wasnt enough for C to put up with B and all her psychosis. For example, Dorinda & Ramona, are moms and are a bit dowdy in a certain way. LuAnn and Sonja are moms and aren't dowdy per se, but are definitely not hip and cool, they're more campy in a drag show sort of way, though I'm sure LuAnn thinks she's all that.  Sure they all wear expensive designer threads and pricey handbags and shoes, but they are by no means hip or current, nor do they seem to even know what is hip or current or cutting edge. Tinsley is younger but she is emotionally a teen at best, and presents herself every way - clothes, speech patterns, emotional responses - as an adolescent. Yes B is a mom,  but she seems to spend a lot of time without Bryn because she shares custody with her ex and is a workaholic. She and Carole are more in sync with what’s hip and current than the others are, though to me, Carole is by far more current with what’s in and hip than B. And I think this is part of why B is  so mad that C has broken up with her. Before, they could pal around together and giggle at the other women who I think they felt they were hipper and above somehow, but now B is left with a gaggle of monied bores who are in no way cool, hip or even much fun most of the time, and I think she’s pissed at hell about that.

Edited August 30, 2018 by gingerella

[ryebread]

9 minutes ago, VioletHues said:

I thought that was very strange.

Carole is of the mindset that you must defend your friend's lovers publically whether you believe they deserve to be defended or not.

She's also of the mindset that you must bash your friend's exes publically when your friend is bound by law not to.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

I think Luann said it too. And I seem to remember that when Luann said it, the context made it seem cruel.

That said, I am more convinced than ever that Carole threw that out last night at the reunion about how she would have had a child if Anthony had lived as self-serving and pity mongering.

Absolutely! I have never gotten the impression that Carole wanted kids, and others here have now posted times when she has said just that.

Didn't Ramona say it on the boat ride from hell? I think she mentioned Avery, and then said something about Carole not understanding because she doesn't have kids. 

I doubt very much if Carole really wanted kids and was grief stricken that she never did, that pretty much every cast member including those who count her as a friend would point out that she doesn't have kids. 

[butterflyeludesme]

I really did not see the "no husband, no kids, no job" comment as a dig. I felt like Bethenny was explaining why her friendship with Carol might have waned a bit. I know that I lost a good friend because we simply no longer had things in common. She was single with no kids and I got married and had a baby, we had just changes and as a result the dynamic of our friendship changed. Beth was simply saying they has less in common with each other and it put a strain on their friendship, Carol DOES have a lot more in common with Tinsley and out of all three I think Beth's priorities in life are just really different from those of Carol and Tinsley. 

[Persnickety1]

Just a quick thought about Carole and kids and all that shit...

As I recall, on her first season, Carole was at a party and Aviva was telling her how much she had loved her book.

Heather enters the conversation and during the ensuing minutes, the conversation turns to kids.

Carole exits the conversation and says in her talking head *something* to the effect of how talk of kids bores her and a couple of other things.

All things being subjective, of course, and MMV, but looking back on that conversation, it does lead me to believe that perhaps there is some truth to the version that Carole chose *not* to stay with Bethenny in the Hamptons earlier this season since Bethenny would have Brynn along.

No judgment here on Carole's part.  Hell, I have a kid and I'm bored out of my skull hearing people prattle on about their kids' activities and all that crap.

And I, too, would opt to stay somewhere kid-free if I were on what was supposed to be a relaxing vacation.

I just find it interesting that Carole, from the start of her foray into the housewives' world, made it pretty clear from jump that she had zero interest in kids or hearing about them yet presents as being so defensive that Bethenny simply pointed out she does not have kids.  

Again, MMV, of course, as all of these women seem to trigger all of us on some level, but I never took Bethenny's statement about things Carole and Tinsley have in common such as neither had husbands nor children was a diss on Carole's maternal standing.   I work a lot of hours, but if I were to stop working tomorrow, I wouldn't consider myself having a career in the present.  It would be my former career.  Former, as in past since I would no longer be currently pursuing my career.  

I've only watched part of this episode so I'm still wringing my hands waiting for Carole to tell that bitch Andy he's full of shit.  As Vicki would say, WOOOOO HOOOO!!!!!!

[Ki-in]

Carole screeched at Aviva how she was nothing because never worked outside of the home. Is being a mother somehow shameful? When did becoming a mother and SAHM become an insult and something to be ashamed of and derided? I don't get it. Yes, children can be boring to hear about etc but raising a human being is a lot harder than fostering kittens and sharing a dog between 3 people.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ki-in

[vetiver]

We now know what sparked the demise of their friendship: Beth's jealousy

She couldn't deal with that Carole had less time to hang out with her

So she lashed out at Carole to get a response like a child.

Edited August 30, 2018 by vetiver

[ryebread]

4 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

 

I'm still wringing my hands waiting for Carole to tell that bitch Andy he's full of shit.  

I watched that bit three times last night. Carole saying it, then doubling down and asking if he was afraid of Bethenny, too.  So delicious.

Their facial expressions are priceless:

Andy's:  Oh, no you di'int.

Carole's: Oh, bloody hell. I guess I did.  Gulp.

Bethenny's:  Yes, yes you did.  Gurl, you in danger.   <<delight>>

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, Sharonana said:

And I still like Dorinda, so there! LOL!

Do you have room at the table for one more? lol

I have called out Dorinda all season long, but that's because I'm being honest about what I'm seeing and interpreting on the show, not because I dislike her. I do think she has a problem and whatever those problems may be, I still think there's a couple of good qualities in her that I just don't see in the other women.

[ancslove]

3 minutes ago, ryebread said:

I watched that bit three times last night. Carole saying it, then doubling down and asking if he was afraid of Bethenny, too.  So delicious.

Their facial expressions are priceless:

Andy's:  Oh, no you di'int.

Carole's: Oh, bloody hell. I guess I did.  Gulp.

Bethenny's:  Yes, yes you did.  Gurl, you in danger.   <<delight>>

The thing is, that was the one time Andy was actually right!  Carole did bash Bethenny on the show.  Andy had already played the clips!  And he wasn’t denying that B bashed Carole too.  Why Carole decided to double down on that specific point, I don’t understand.

[albarino]

20 minutes ago, vetiver said:

 

We now know what sparked the demise of their friendship: Beth's jealousy

She couldn't deal with that Carole had less time to hang out with her

So she lashed out at Carole to get a response like a child.

 

That isn't the way I see it.  My theory (and bear with me as I repeat myself) is Carole was angry Bethenny called Adam (without her permission!) to ask him to go to Houston.  He didn't go and B then referred to him as an operator.  Carole has been mad as hell about it.

[vetiver]

6 minutes ago, ancslove said:

The thing is, that was the one time Andy was actually right!  Carole did bash Bethenny on the show.  Andy had already played the clips!  And he wasn’t denying that B bashed Carole too.  Why Carole decided to double down on that specific point, I don’t understand.

Carole said that she didn't comment negatively on Beth prior to the trip, where their friendship took a turn for the worse. Her issue with Beth is that Beth went after her in the beginning of the season when she believed they were still friends.

[Rap541]

Carole really seems unable to accept she really has been bitching about Bethenny. I mean, whether she's right or wrong isn't really the point, she hasn't spent all season praising Bethenny despite her public comments to that effect in the reunion. Some of her blogs have been so soaked in vitriol it's been uncomfortable.

I do think Carole has some points but she wants to play the "When you bitch about me - thats bashing me! I'm the victim! But when I bash you - THATS HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE!" game and it isn't a good look for her. 

And yes, Carole got her ass fired when she said that to Andy - he was *pissed*. 

Wait... there's another hour of this next week??

[KungFuBunny]

16 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I really think it's because Bethenny and Carole got busy. Bethenny talked about Adam and Carole went mental. Then Bethenny got defensive and it escelated.

The root of the problem is Adam.

Carole wanted her narrative of this season to be Adam wants me back sooooo bad.

Bethenny talked about Adam in a negative manner to Carole's face when she thought they were broken up which was before in the spring. Carole took up "training" for the marathon in a bid to get him back and at the very least to keep him around. Carole bragged about having coffee with him twice a day. He dumped her and probably throughout their relationship dumps her off season unless she takes him on vacations or he needs some cash.

You're right Carole just lost her mind when it comes down to Adam.

It is the same for Luann - the root of her problem with Luann is Adam. Luann calling him a boy toy, he's a user, he dated my niece, was still sleeping with my niece when you hooked up. Carole can NOT stand anyone saying anything bad about Adam.

Carole does not want anyone to question what she deems as their passionate, monogamous relationship. Carole does not want to be viewed as the desperate woman who fell for a douche bag user.

Carole is the "Ride or Die Side Ho" - stay in your lane bitch, stop trying to get him to "claim" you.

[RosieRose221]

14 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

Bethenny/Carole:  Sorry ... I find the whole thing sad.  I think they did love each other and were good friends (while also probably realizing each other's faults, but friends brush those aside and defend each other, as they have).  Honestly ... I think that they both were in the wrong in their friendship implosion.  Bethenny's talking heads about Carole were RUDE.  And Carole's responses in her blogs were astoundingly vicious (and mostly true).  Carole said things where I was like: "Yep, bang on correct.  Bethenny is lying and knows it, too".  And then Bethenny said things where I was like: "Yep, Carole is lying to herself right now.   I'm with Bethenny on this one!"  etc, etc.  I'm just sad.  I think Bethenny is a hoot, but she drives me insane, too.  And Carole has grown on me over time.  But now she's gone.  And I won't be able to track if this friendship was ever going to get back on track, at all.  I assume NO.  But you never know.

I agree! It's both their fault. I liked them better as friends too. But Carol has become a hag so even tho Bethenny did plenty wrong too  i lean more towards #teambethenny for some reason.  She is a hoot! Carol...not so much

[ancslove]

I think also, Carole was becoming more friendly with people that Bethenny liked to poke fun at.  Bethenny making jabs at Luann and Jules and Sonja was all fine and fun, but Bethenny jabbing Ramona and Tinsley and Adam felt different because Carole likes them.  Carole grew closer to Ramona and Bethenny got closer to Luann and Sonja, and suddenly, the sarcastic cracks that Carole used to laugh at were now being aimed at the wrong people.  And Bethenny ends up being “mean” and “exhausting” because Carole is no longer having fun.

[yourmomiseasy]

3 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Awwww...is this you helping my cousins?

 

You're welcome regarding the GIFs - I'll throw you a new one of my latest Dorinda - semi lucid not yet slurring. If you look closely I'm saying Jovani!

From Wikipedia re Anthony

Around 1989 he was diagnosed with testicular cancer and underwent treatment which left him sterile but in apparent remission. However, shortly before his wedding, new tumors emerged. Radziwiłł battled metastasizing cancer throughout his five years of marriage, with his wife, Carole, serving as his primary caretaker through a succession of oncologists, hospitals, operations, and experimental treatments.

Anthony and Carole married in 1994. There is no indication that Anthony stored sperm before undergoing treatment 5 years before marrying Carole. Had he done that there was no reason Carole couldn't have had a baby when they married or after he passed other than she didn't want his baby or a baby. Carole said what she said at the reunion to play victim and draw the sympathy card - didn't work for me.

Carole SUX - bitch bye!

It could be that if he'd lived they would have found alternate means to have a child.  Couples with fertility issues, especially those with money, do it all the time.  It just wouldn't have been Anthony's biological child, or in the case of adoption either's bio child.  It is also possible that they decided having a baby while Anthony was fighting and dying from cancer, which he was their entire marriage, wasn't a great idea as all their energy needed to be focused on his health and then Carole didn't want to be a single mother while dealing with her grief.  It could be that Carole did what a lot of women these days are doing - she focused on her career and assumed there would be time for a baby later, just because she didn't have a burning desire for one doesn't mean she didn't want one -- in our society it is just kind of assumed you'll have at least one.  Then life threw her a curve ball with Anthony's health and that window closed.  In my experience, if you aren't dying for a kid, the longer you go without having one, the more you get comfortable in your life and the more ambivalent you get about having one.  You don't have to be anti-having a kid to be not focused on having one and sometimes when you don't make it a priority life happens and takes the option from you and you don't care enough to move heaven and hell over it, but that doesn't mean you're not at least a little wistful.

 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Just because something's true, doesn't mean that the person isn't an asshole for saying it.  (I'm talking about Bethenny here.)  

Right?  How about following someone overweight around saying "Fatty, fatty!  Surprised your ass fit through the door!"  It might be true, but there's no reason for it and you're a dick for saying it.

[Sunfield]

3 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

So Carole and Bethenny have multiple conversations where B explains that she's feeling left out, something's changed, you're acting cold, and Carole assures her that it's nonsense, she loves B, we'll talk when I get back, etc. But then, what happens when Carole gets back? If I were B I would expect some repair or attention from Carole and I think it never happened and B knew Carole's words and actions didn't match. I am imagining that there were little things we don't see on camera in regard to filming, texts asking each other "do you want to arrive together?" or, "lets cut out as soon as we can and get a drink afterward" and maybe Carole just dropped that with B and transferred all of that attention to Tinsley and B felt the change.

Carole can hug it out all she wants (even though she's not a hugger) with B but if you make zero effort then your words are meaningless. And I think its fairly obvious that Carole is not into effort. In all the screaming and shouting I never did hear Carole say exactly what she did to reunite with B after Christmas to resume their friendship. ??? Did anyone else hear it? I would have been really hurt if I poured my heart out to a friend that I was feeling left out and they assured me everything was the same but then I never heard from them and see they are spending all their time now with someone else (Tins).  

And what we don't know is if this is something Carole does routinely--besties with someone for a year or two then drops them for the next bestie. Sure, Carole is lauded for having a lot of friends and B villainized for not, but we don't know if Carole's circle of friends is littered with a lot of former besties who at one time were as hurt as B was when Carole moved on to her next bestie.  Maybe B never drops her besties like Carole does. Carole does not strike me as someone who is publicly going to admit on camera that this is what she does with friends so instead she turns it into B being too much. 

I am not saying this is exactly what happened, but it might be what happened. 

Well said. Thank you. It saves me having to type it all.

This is also the definition of gaslighting. Carol gaslit Bethenny. And prior to that, Carol used Bethenny when it suited her until she’d gotten all she needed and then she thought she’d just edge away quietly. It’s cruel to do to anyone. And that’s why Bethenny was so destabilized at various times during the season. That’s why B isn’t holding back for Carols feelings now and rightly so, Given what Bethenny was already dealing with -an ex gaslighting her who previously threatened her life -that Bethenny is as well as she is right now is a testament to her strength and good mental health.

Carol is projecting when she calls B a narcissist. The narcissist is Carol. All the way back to her book What Remains... at least Carol is consistent so other potential victims know now. The last to know will apparently be Carol.

[KungFuBunny]

16 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Carole is such a classic gaslighter.

With The Dream Team Assist

[RosieRose221]

14 hours ago, SCS said:

LOL I read this as "got busy" -- and thought "that's why Carole looked so distraught in the finale when she and Beth were seated at the bar speaking quietly and Ramona interrupted them --  because Beth was telling her it was merely an interlude and now fini and Carole was devastated."

bhahahahahahahahhahah

[Sunfield]

12 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

The root of the problem is Adam.

Carole wanted her narrative of this season to be Adam wants me back sooooo bad.

Bethenny talked about Adam in a negative manner to Carole's face when she thought they were broken up which was before in the spring. Carole took up "training" for the marathon in a bid to get him back and at the very least to keep him around. Carole bragged about having coffee with him twice a day. He dumped her and probably throughout their relationship dumps her off season unless she takes him on vacations or he needs some cash.

You're right Carole just lost her mind when it comes down to Adam.

It is the same for Luann - the root of her problem with Luann is Adam. Luann calling him a boy toy, he's a user, he dated my niece, was still sleeping with my niece when you hooked up. Carole can NOT stand anyone saying anything bad about Adam.

Carole does not want anyone to question what she deems as their passionate, monogamous relationship. Carole does not want to be viewed as the desperate woman who fell for a douche bag user.

Carole is the "Ride or Die Side Ho" - stay in your lane bitch, stop trying to get him to "claim" you.

Yep all this was the initiator for Carol distancing from Bethenny. Carol’s ego knows no bounds.

[Rap541]

I trust this means we're done with Adam on the show, right?

[KungFuBunny]

16 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

Carole needs to learn the definition of bully.

Carole needs a mirror, unfortunately The Dream Team is currently using it - there's some Magical White residue on it.

[Giselle]

1 hour ago, Ki-in said:

Exactly.

Why didn't the doctors have Anthony put some sperm in a sperm bank the first time before any treatment rendered him sterile? Carole could have easily frozen her eggs like Tinsley (and Brigitte Neilson who froze hers and just recently had a baby in her late 50's). Carole was only 35, she could have moved on with someone else but being the widow Radziwill has cache.

Also, in season 9 Carole told her mother (after reminding her mother that she was married to Anthony and friends with John-John and Carolyn) that she was perfectly fine with not having children.

Did Carol know Anthony before his first bout of cancer? Was marriage and a family even a blip on his screen? Not everybody wants a baby after 50. Not everybody finds a person or finds another person they want to have a family with. 

Some women don't want to bring children into the world without a father in the picture. I was one of them. I'm now older while I still would have loved to have kids (never been pregnant) I'm ok at this point in my life not having my own children. I love my life but do I want someone to bring it up when they see me? No and I'm not offended if they ask. Is there ever a twinge of what if? Briefly, once in a great great while, but then I go and spoil my niece, my husband and my adult stepdaughter. Do I still think I made the right decision for me? Absolutely! Would I want it to be a topic of conversation that somebody else brings up, or used against me, or judged as a measure of my life worth. FUCK NO! And fuck the person who tries because I will set them straight and go on loving my life.

Who cares what Carol has said in the past about wanting/not having kids, Bethany bringing it up even as a benign comparison of their lives is wrong especially on TV. 

Try bringing up anything to do with Jason to Bethany and using that as a benign comparison... she usually goes ape shit.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Giselle
Not finished.

[Lady J]

15 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

It was announced today, go in the media section. Bethenny is coming back. I can't wait to see Dorinda eat it.

It seems odd to me that Bethany is coming back. Between business and court battles isn't she busy enough ?

[Mozelle]

Just now, Lady J said:

It seems odd to me that Bethany is coming back. Between business and court battles isn't she busy enough ?

She needs the show. And when I say that Bethenny needs the show, I'm not talking about financially. I'm talking about Bethenny's need to be on people's screens, whether we're talking television, computer, tablets, or telephones. She wouldn't miss signing back up for anything in this world.

[Persnickety1]

40 minutes ago, albarino said:

That isn't the way I see it.  My theory (and bear with me as I repeat myself) is Carole was angry Bethenny called Adam (without her permission!) to ask him to go to Houston.  He didn't go and B then referred to him as an operator.  Carole has been mad as hell about it.

I have similar thoughts.

I think Bethenny felt it was "safe" to talk negatively about Adam when she thought Adam and Carole had broken up.

I think when Carole informed her differently during that phone call, that she and Adam were still together and was upset Bethenny had spoken of him being an "operator," Bethenny knew her alligator mouth had overloaded her hummingbird ass, and became overly sensitive to any perceived slight by Carole after that incident.

I think that's why Bethenny was inquiring of the other housewives if Carole seemed different, etc., to see if it was only towards her that Carole appeared to be acting differently.

Speaking from experience, I've learned to never (NEVER) say anything derogatory about a friend's significant other, even if they've broken up, because if they do reconcile, you are the "bad" guy in the situation, the one to whom they vented and now you know things they'd likely wish they hadn't told you and also the one who expressed an unfavorable opinion of the person in question.  It becomes awkward for both parties involved.  I get why Carole would still be smarting about Bethenny's "operator" comment, and I also get why Bethenny knew she had overstepped a bound with Carole and was feeling guilty (for lack of a better word).  

I think that's the position Bethenny found herself in.  She knew her comment(s) about Adam had upset Carole and, although she had apologized, was left wondering if the friendship were still intact to the point of obsession.  

I think it just turned into a self-fulling prophecy, if that makes sense.  

It's a sad situation for both ladies, in my opinion, because I believe the two of them let a man get between what had apparently been a close friendship.  

And by "man," I should clarify what I consider to be a user, operator, and opportunist.  Ugh.  

Edited August 30, 2018 by Persnickety1

[ancslove]

How old is Tinsley?  I think Bethenny’s 45 jibe was meant to reference Carole trying to act like Tinsley.

[RosieRose221]

13 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Dr. Drake Ramoray could diagnose this woman. All you need are two eyes and one working ear.

Good one!! lol 

[walnutqueen]

10 minutes ago, Lady J said:

It seems odd to me that Bethany is coming back. Between business and court battles isn't she busy enough ?

She's a multi-tasker, that one.  ;-)

 

I actually don't think Andy was as offended about the "full of shit" comment as he was about the "you're afraid of her, too" quip.  His quietly sarcastic retort "Yeah, I'm afraid of her" spoke volumes to me.

[yourmomiseasy]

16 minutes ago, Giselle said:

Did Carol know Anthony before his first bout of cancer? Was marriage and a family even a blip on his screen. Not everybody wants a baby after 50. Not everybody finds a person or finds another person they want to have a family with. 

Some women don't want to bring children into the world without a father in the picture. I was one of them. I'm now older while I still would have loved to have kids (never been pregnant) I'm ok at this point in my life not having my own children. I love my life but do I want someone to bring it up when they see me? No. Is there ever a twinge of what if? Briefly, once in a great great while, but then I go and spoil my niece, my husband and my adult stepdaughter. Do I still think I made the right decision for me? Absolutely! Would I want it to be a topic of conversation that somebody else brings up, or used against me, or judged as a measure of my life worth. FUCK NO! And fuck the person who tries because I will set them straight and go on loving my life.

Who cares what Carol has said in the past about having/not having kids, Bethany bringing it up even as a benign comparison of their lives is wrong especially on TV. 

Try bringing up anything to do with Jason to Bethany and using that as a benign comparison... she usually goes ape shit.