S10.E21: Reunion Part 2

[OFDgal]

11 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

That’s exactly the right word ..Bully.  A very mean bully at that.  What bothers me is everyone is letting her off the hook about her drinking.  Why can’t someone just say “ Dorinda, you have to go to rehab”.  She’s laughing about all the incidents when she was sloppy drunk.  She thinks everything she did while drinking was so funny.  That woman is mental and became unlikeable.   Andy should not have her return.  She is not fun at all and brings nothing to the show imo.

1

Agree.  I really liked her when she was first on.  I thought she was a fun and caring person.  However, as time went by, she started showing the real Dorinda.  I find it hard to believe that after watching herself and her mean, drunken rages, that she still says she doesn't have a problem with alcohol. I guess to her this is acceptable behavior. 

[Higgins]

9 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

My thoughts of each woman tonight:

Dorinda:  I think she's a drunk.  The other women know it.  Only one says it.  I LOVE how Dorinda says everyone else drinks.  Ummmm, yeah ... THEY DO.  And not ONE of them exhibits the kind of repulsive, slurred, combative behavior that she showed regularly.  And this nonsense that she "had a couple drinks".  There is more drinking going on than is being said, and possibly other things.  I used to love Dorinda.  I think she CAN be kind and intelligent and clear-headed and fun.  But oooooof.  This season.

Ramona: She sooo knows that Dorinda has a major drinking problem and says nothing.  Weak.  I love what she had to say to Bethenny that day on the street on her cell phone.  But other than that moment, she's been neutral/Switzerland this season (in matters concerning Dorinda and Carole/Bethenny) and it drives me crazy.

Tinsley: I like her, but this whole Scott thing is tiresome and she seems weak-willed.

Sonja:  She's just kind of ... there.  Comes out with the occasional correct and/or funny barb.

LuAnn: She DEFINITELY let her already large ego get too big.  The fame/infamy got to her.  And her being sued was the tipping point.

Bethenny/Carole:  Sorry ... I find the whole thing sad.  I think they did love each other and were good friends (while also probably realizing each other's faults, but friends brush those aside and defend each other, as they have).  Honestly ... I think that they both were in the wrong in their friendship implosion.  Bethenny's talking heads about Carole were RUDE.  And Carole's responses in her blogs were astoundingly vicious (and mostly true).  Carole said things where I was like: "Yep, bang on correct.  Bethenny is lying and knows it, too".  And then Bethenny said things where I was like: "Yep, Carole is lying to herself right now.   I'm with Bethenny on this one!"  etc, etc.  I'm just sad.  I think Bethenny is a hoot, but she drives me insane, too.  And Carole has grown on me over time.  But now she's gone.  And I won't be able to track if this friendship was ever going to get back on track, at all.  I assume NO.  But you never know.

Actually it wad said that both Carol and Ramona voiced their concerns about her alcohol use, in private, with Dorinda.

[mwell345]

Well, all I can say is I have been waiting years to see a HW finally put Andy  in his place. Putting Bethenny in her place was an added bonus.

It was pretty clear at that moment that Carole was a goner. I'm surprised Bravo/Andy let her spin it the way she wanted, but he probably didn't want to look like the petty little b*tch he is.

 

Also Carole tweeted this on Aug 22, after the first part of the reunion aired.

Carole Radziwill:   Verified account @CaroleRadziwill
"It's about the lies that were spun as truth regarding the red scarf guy. It's so wack. Can't wait to see the edited down version!"

I wonder if the texts between Bethenny and RSG were part of the discussion last night and ended up on the cutting room floor or if that comes up next week.

[ShawnaLanne]

20 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Actually it wad said that both Carol and Ramona voiced their concerns about her alcohol use, in private, with Dorinda.

If it didn't happen on camera, according to Dorinda, it doesn't count.

I hope they did and I understand why they wouldn't want to do it on camera. But I don't believe it. They backed her wackiness too deeply on air.

[TeeMo]

I think part of the issue here is that Carole and Bethenny are basically two sides of the same coin - the things they are accusing each other of are true for both of them. I think where they differ is in levels of self awareness. Bethenny knows she is “a lot” and generally admits it. She also mostly owns up to a lot of her shitty behavior though she never actually changes it for the better.  That exchange where Carole read the text from Bethenny calling Ramona evil, Ramona says “gee thanks” and Bethenny nods her head and says “you’re welcome.” She knows she says crappy things about people, she also knows it makes for good TV, she is mostly unapologetic about it but she is pretty upfront about it. Carole also says snide, crappy things about people but somehow thinks it is completely different than what Bethenny does. She has no leg to stand on when it comes to calling Bethenny out because she behaves just as badly and couches it as “calling you out for your actions.”

Both Carole and Bethenny are aware that they are clever and quick and able to get in little snide digs in a way the rest of the other women really are not. Carole seemed to have zero issue with this when she and Bethenny were getting their digs in together over Jules especially but really, any of the other women. I can only imagine their conversations when they traveled just the two of them with Adam and Dennis or during weekend in the Hamptons. I am sure they cracked each other up with their digs about the other women. But when the friendship fell apart it seems Carole decided that what had been a shared past time - mean girl put downs and bullying- was now just an unacceptable character flaw of Bethenny’s and she was going to point it out to the world. The problem for Carole is that everyone already knows this about Bethenny, including Bethenny so it is not like she was breaking any news here. In calling Bethenny out repeatedly and never owning her own similar crappy behavior she ends up looking foolish. Pulling together the “Dream Team” of drunk Dorinda, silent Tinsley and looney Ramona only made it worse because the three of them together were not much of a match for Bethenny alone (with assists from Andy). 

[RedDelicious]

20 hours ago, SCS said:

Perfect! Much better than:

Might be my most favorite moment in Housewives history.

ETA: I watched this at least 15 16 times today.

Edited August 30, 2018 by RedDelicious

[KungFuBunny]

9 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

KUNGFUBUNNY, as someone who has helped care for 800 rescue bunnies over the last 7 years, I just have to say I absolutely love your GIFs of bunnies! Thank you for posting them! 

Posters have pretty much already stated many of the things I was going to write. I laughed at Dorinda saying that she apologized many times to Lu off camera. But if someone is to say anything to Dorinda - like thank her for a nutcracker - it needs to be on camera or it doesn't count. Noted. 

Dorinda is not only a drunk, but she is nasty even when she isn't drinking. As I recall she was not drinking  when she went crazy on Sonja for daring to compare her divorce to Dorinda's sainted widowhood. I am still ticked that they did not show the clip of Dorinda saying in Cartagena that she and Lu need to go away together for 21 days. Maybe Andy was afraid that Dorinda would go off on him. If I was going to be afraid of any of the Howives, it would be Dorinda. She is nasty.

As someone else pointed out, I don't buy that Scott is too busy to have a relationship with Tinsley. He has time to date others when they are apart. My guess is he just doesn't have a lot in common with Tins. He has a busy career, and Tins has nothing. What are they going to talk about?

Scott: "What did you do today, Tinsley?" 

Tins: "I tried on wedding dresses with you future mother in law, and looked at pictures of the eggs you are going to fertilize one day."  

 

Not to be mean, but Carole has no idea if she and Anthony would have had a child had he lived. Many people think they are going to have a kid and don't because they can't, or they get divorced, or they change their minds.  Whatever. Carole was already 36 when Anthony died. So her window of being able to have kids was already narrowing, especially 20 years ago. But the fact remains, she doesn't have kids. I don't either, and it doesn't bother me a bit if someone points it out. It is the truth. 

Awwww...is this you helping my cousins?

 

You're welcome regarding the GIFs - I'll throw you a new one of my latest Dorinda - semi lucid not yet slurring. If you look closely I'm saying Jovani!

From Wikipedia re Anthony

Around 1989 he was diagnosed with testicular cancer and underwent treatment which left him sterile but in apparent remission. However, shortly before his wedding, new tumors emerged. Radziwiłł battled metastasizing cancer throughout his five years of marriage, with his wife, Carole, serving as his primary caretaker through a succession of oncologists, hospitals, operations, and experimental treatments.

Anthony and Carole married in 1994. There is no indication that Anthony stored sperm before undergoing treatment 5 years before marrying Carole. Had he done that there was no reason Carole couldn't have had a baby when they married or after he passed other than she didn't want his baby or a baby. Carole said what she said at the reunion to play victim and draw the sympathy card - didn't work for me.

Carole SUX - bitch bye!

[Stiggs]

9 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

No one needs a medical degree to diagnose Bethenny as a narcissist and a liar. Her double-speak was on full display tonight.

Dr. Drake Ramoray could diagnose this woman. All you need are two eyes and one working ear.

Carole's career isn't up for debate. Stories written, Emmys won. It's not Carole's fault she's older than Bethenny and hustled a few decades ago. She doesn't have to get in the current decade to please Beth so Beth can "win." This is why B dislikes her so much. Carole just will not kowtow.

I disagree with a lot of this but adore you for bringing up Dr. Drake Ramoray. :) Now I am giggling, thinking of how Joey would react in a room full of these ladies. He might need a bigger freezer, lol. 

[ryebread]

5 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

I really don't get this. Bethenny is not owed an all-access pass to Carol's life. And wasn't Cassandra in mourning? Why would you subject your friend in mourning to Bethenny fucking Frankel? Women with real class who are in the real upper echelon of society wouldn't be caught dead with these harpies who throw drinks at each other and shit on the floors of resorts.

I have to laugh because Cassandra Grey is in a relationship with Samantha Ronson, who is far from the definition of a woman with real class in the real upper echelon of society. I realize that l'm making Cassandra guilty by association but, there you have it. Seems like every one has a mugshot these days.  Sam's for DUI:

 

It's possible Carole didn't invite Bethenny into the house because she was embarrassed of what was inside, (in my imagination - ashtrays overflowing with cigarette butts, half empty beer bottles and a skipping record on a turntable LOL).

That scenario is just as plausible as Carole not inviting Bethenny in because she was embarrassed of Bethenny.

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

But it's true. Carole doesn't have kids or a career. She used to have a career. Now she's a socialite.

Bethenny talking about selfies is ridiculous.

Just because something's true, doesn't mean that the person isn't an asshole for saying it.  (I'm talking about Bethenny here.)  

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, hottesthw said:

If this is how Carole really ended her career I applaud her. She had the balls to prove that bitch a liar and put that other bitch, Andy in his place. 

Bravo Carole, Bravo!

I agree.  Right when I start to like her, she leaves.  That's how it goes of course, LOL!

[Bossa Nova]

12 hours ago, nexxie said:

Bethenny sounded needy and demanding in those texts - a narc who wants attention NOW.

THIS^^^^ !.

And Carole,right or wrong in this overall battle, I think is just worn down from dealing with Bethenny's and her neediness/narcissism.

Its exhausting to deal with people with NPD. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, tribeca said:

I know people don’t like Carole but I found it very sad when she said her husband died and if he hadn’t they would have had a child together.   As someone who wasn’t blessed with children it’s incredible hurtful when those who have children rub in your face.  

I agree.  How is that an appropriate insult?  To tell someone they're childless?  That's fucking disgusting.  Fact or not, why would you even say it?  Even if you're (pretending, IMO) that you don't mean it as an insult, just a 'fact of life', why would you ever say that to someone? Some people want children, some don't, some want children and will never get the chance to have them, some can't have children, some have had children and lost them.  It's shameful shameful shameful for someone to say that to another.  And when Carole made this comment about her late husband, Bethenny just sat there, because she had nothing to say for once.  Something finally shut her up.

If you begin to list attributes to a person like "She has no career, no children, blah blah blah" on national/international (I watch this show in another country) television, then YES, that's rubbing someone's face in it, in my opinion.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Pondlass1]

The housewife named Ramona looks like she has a glass eye.  Did they glue the false eyelashes on too tight?

Considering all the yelling and finger pointing and text reading I found this episode kinda boring.  

[ryebread]

Would someone please refresh my memory about which episode and what context Bethenny said to Carole that she had no kids, no husband, no career?

[Carolina Girl]

10 hours ago, bagger said:

CAROL IS NOT the cash cow on this show that Teresa is/was for New Jersey. At best Carol has always been a supporting cast member. You have to know your worth to an organization before you go after a big fish.

After reading the forums, I opted not to watch the Reunion shows.  I always check here first to decide whether I want to listen to a gaggle of harpies wail about the injustices done to them over 17 episodes.  If this is the sum total of your problems, ladies, then you're better off than many of us.  Especially when you consider  the viewers' general reaction to your self-righteous indignation is "oh Jeez - are you STILL upset over this?"

Carole - I have a needy friend.  All of us have one.  She's one of those people who, when you ask them what time it is, goes into detailed instruction on how to build a watch.  You live with it.  I get four paragraph biographical emails when my initial inquiry was if she's going to be on the same bus I am in the morning.

Bethenny - dear, I love you - you're the reincarnation of my NY buddy Amanda.  But believe it or not, Carole doesn't wake up in the morning and go through the day wondering if you're coping and what you're doing.  And snappy comebacks are one thing, but it can slip into the nasty end of the pool with relative ease.   The trick is being clever without being mean.  

[QuinnM]

Just now, ryebread said:

Would someone please refresh my memory about which episode and what context Bethenny said to Carole that she had no kids, no husband, no career?

She was talking about how getting together and finding time for the friendship was challenging because they were at two such different places in their lives.

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, lamujerdecente said:

Teresa (like it or not) was a ratings draw. Carole isn’t without help hence her storyline of fighting with Bethany.

My point wasn't about who was a ratings draw. Andy has let people go who were supposed ratings draw (Phaedra) or kept people who weren't (Wig aka Kim Zolciak) for one reason or another. I still don't think that Carole was fired for telling Andy he was full of shit, when this was a person on the receiving end of a shove from another employee.

I also think we can dispense with the fiction that Bethenny is either a ratings draw or someone who has story lines outside of feuding with someone. This season was very long (nearly five months, not including the reunion episodes currently airing). Her episodes (exactly two) about disaster relief were within the second month of airing. Since then, her story line was this fight with Carole.

1 hour ago, film noire said:

She absolutely has a career now.

I have plenty of friends (and myself) who would BLISSFULLY take Radziwill's "non-career" today. She has three books to her writing credit  (two within the last half decade) she's writing a new book, and her novel has been optioned again.  Just about every non-famous novelist, playwright, screenwriter, poet, short story writer,  and screenwriter would kill to wake up to that work situation this morning. And either Bethenny is too stupid to understand that it can take a writer years to write a book, or Frankel is  jealous of Carole's A-list "writer" life because Bethenny remains stuck in the low-rent gutter of trash tv. Maybe she thought Radziwill was her ticket to vacations with Cassandra Grey and lunch with Robert Evans. Maybe that's where all this sour, creepy shit pouring out of Frankel is coming from -- the reason she's reacting like a jilted lover, the distaff Othello of RHoNY -- she didn't get to manipulate and use Carole the way she had planned, and now Frankel is trapped in the world of trash tv that she was supposed to have left behind, years ago. Whatever the damn reason (because who knows what goes on in Frankel's mind)  it's made her look bitter and ignorant and small, because Carole has a career, now. 

This, this, this. Bethenny thought she had shaken off the cloak of Real Housewives only to be reminded that outside of its bubble, no one cares to see her on their TV for any extended period of time. She needs this show to shill the product ideas that she keeps throwing at walls to see what sticks. RHONY for Bethenny is like HSN for the other HWs who hawk their wares. 

Also, I think that Bethenny understands how writing works (she knows it all, remember?), but because it's Carole she has to be dismissive. Just as she was dismissive about Ramona's businesses. Just as she was dismissive about Heather's business, and to be honest, that one never made any sense to me. Heather had a proper business that was independent of any housewife affiliation, and she had been successful at it for years before joining the show, only for Bethenny to act as though she needed to give Heather business advice. 

[Giselle]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

Amen, sister (although I am intrigued by the sad image of BethLenny hugging the RHoNY puppy too hard --  "I keelt you cuz I lurved you, Carole!" :)

eta:

It can't be about Kelly, because Frankel made the same claim last year on Facebook, when talking about how she was suited to raising relief for Puerto Rico, due to having produced the Grammys and the Emmys (there's info about it in her thread if you want to nose around). Kelly was nowhere near that situation.

And Frankel wrote the same claim again in her blog last year, October of 2017: "I used to produce events: movie premieres, the Grammys. That's all this is."

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/blogs/bethenny-frankel/disaster-relief-puerto-rico-houston-mexico-airplanes

No, she was saying she "produced large scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres and more". (What's the and more, I wonder? What's left, the Olympics? The Oscars? Or did and more involve a water bed? :) 

Sadly, she's not joking.  She's really is saying exactly what she said. And she's made the same claim at least three times -- so maybe Bigshot Bethy should stop looking down her nose at Carole's career, and start fact-checking her own work history.

Agree.

All one has to do is check her IMDB. She's been scrambling for fame for fame since the early 90s.

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1132273/filmotype?ref_=m_nmfmd_msc_flm

 

She has ONE producer credit, Bethenny and Frederic in 2018.

Under "miscellaneous" she has a credit  as an assistant to the producers of Saved by the Bell for 6 episodes in 1991.

Under "herself" she was a presenter at the Day time Emmy's in 2013, she appeared again as herself in 2012, 

In 2009 she appeared as herself for the Annual Guild Hall Awards show, in 2008 she was a presenter at the A-List Awards.

If she were a producer, the way she makes it sound, of the Emmy's, the Grammy's, whatever it would have been listed under "producer" if she was even a part of production staff it would be under "Miscellaneous".

As much as she wants to claim credit for these things they don't show up as producer/production credits. 

[ShawnaLanne]

22 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Just because something's true, doesn't mean that the person isn't an asshole for saying it.  (I'm talking about Bethenny here.)  

Yes. And sometimes someone earns another person being an asshole to them. (I'm talking about Carole earning it.)

[Ms Blue Jay]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[ShawnaLanne]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Nope, but it explains that I think Carole is a conniving, two faced bitch, and I  have no problem with her being verbally cut. I just stated it more politely the first time.

[VioletHues]

6 hours ago, film noire said:

 

Whatever the reason she remained childless, unless Frankel wants people mocking her for admitting she only married the father of her child due to pressure from Andy Cohen,  she should shut her mouth the next time she feels tempted to drag anybody for being childless,  or a widow.

 

Clearly mileage varies here, but I absolutely did not think she was dragging her for being childless. She mentioned it when she was talking about why Carole and Tinsley make for a better match right now. She listed the things they have in common one of which being that they don't have kids. 

Personally, I've always gotten a no kids for me, thanks vibe from Carole and, as I said earlier, I question whether or not there was ever any real desire to build a family with Anthony. But, of course, we can never know.

[ryebread]

Just now, QuinnM said:

She was talking about how getting together and finding time for the friendship was challenging because they were at two such different places in their lives.

Thanks, Quinn. I wanted to make sure I was remembering correctly. In that context, I don't think it's so terrible. Unnecessary to say out loud? Sure.

But it's not like Beth said something like:

"You're nothing because you've never had a job baby." 

Who would SAY something like that? Hmmmm? ?

[OFDgal]

10 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I figured out tonight what Carole's look reminded me of. The combination of the horrible dress, sour look during 99% of the reunion, and weird shrunken looking mouth reminded me of those shrunken apple head dolls that people dress up in long dresses to resemble little old ladies. 

Yes.  I was thinking she looked like a shrunken apple head, especially her tiny eyes,  but I didn't know people dressed them up.  Thanks for the pic.

[TheFinalRose]

So Carole and Bethenny have multiple conversations where B explains that she's feeling left out, something's changed, you're acting cold, and Carole assures her that it's nonsense, she loves B, we'll talk when I get back, etc. But then, what happens when Carole gets back? If I were B I would expect some repair or attention from Carole and I think it never happened and B knew Carole's words and actions didn't match. I am imagining that there were little things we don't see on camera in regard to filming, texts asking each other "do you want to arrive together?" or, "lets cut out as soon as we can and get a drink afterward" and maybe Carole just dropped that with B and transferred all of that attention to Tinsley and B felt the change.

Carole can hug it out all she wants (even though she's not a hugger) with B but if you make zero effort then your words are meaningless. And I think its fairly obvious that Carole is not into effort. In all the screaming and shouting I never did hear Carole say exactly what she did to reunite with B after Christmas to resume their friendship. ??? Did anyone else hear it? I would have been really hurt if I poured my heart out to a friend that I was feeling left out and they assured me everything was the same but then I never heard from them and see they are spending all their time now with someone else (Tins).  

And what we don't know is if this is something Carole does routinely--besties with someone for a year or two then drops them for the next bestie. Sure, Carole is lauded for having a lot of friends and B villainized for not, but we don't know if Carole's circle of friends is littered with a lot of former besties who at one time were as hurt as B was when Carole moved on to her next bestie.  Maybe B never drops her besties like Carole does. Carole does not strike me as someone who is publicly going to admit on camera that this is what she does with friends so instead she turns it into B being too much. 

I am not saying this is exactly what happened, but it might be what happened. 

[KungFuBunny]

13 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Well, Sonja's personality doesn't change when she drinks, Drunkinda's does.

Sonja could have just said I don't insult my friends when I drink.

[lasandi]

11 hours ago, The Closer said:

Carol is a complete and utter ass who is guilty of the very things she complains about. This isn’t about Bethenney vs Carol. It’s possible to think both are ridiculous, but Carol has put herself on a mighty high horse proclaiming someone else is acting negatively towards her while the same type of comments by her are just merely about holding people accountable. That level of mental gymnastics in order to maintain victim status is quite impressive (if not totally insane.) I can’t even get started on her complaints about someone else’s idea about women empowerment when Carol’s idea of women empowerment is bringing women together so they can all take aim at the woman she no longer likes. Way to show what women can accomplish when they come together!  

Hate Bethenney all you want and call her out on her awful behavior. I’ve got no issue with that, but let’s not pretend that Carol is any less of an insufferable asshat herself. 

Agreed!  If I had a mic I would drop it,

[Giselle]

4 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Try getting so mad that you can't see straight or form a coherent thought.  I have been known to tremble too, but for a while I was having disproportionate rage issues due to a reaction to a medication and I've literally been so mad that I can't see straight over stupid BS and knowing I was being crazy just made it worse.

The "I know you wish you were 45" was age shaming, not the "but don't act like you're 7."  It could have been just "don't act like you're 7."  The first part served no purpose but to age shame.

She had to write it out though because god forbid she go from memory and end up paraphrasing or miswording - Bethenny would be all over her saying she never said that.  That's how Bethenny fights, she likes to get lost in inconsequential minutia and claim that's what makes her right -- just like she didn't call Adam, she emailed him, or whatever, ignoring that the method of communication was not what was at issue.  

IDK.  I think she'd need to have some other TVV show lined up to try to fill the big gaping hole of need in her soul.

I don't think the problem is whether or not being childless is the truth, it is how it was intended and it was intended as a barb.  

I had a friend that would pull that type shit wanting me to list stuff off the top of my head or taking issue with a miniscule aspect of something. She didn't like it when I started doing the same thing to her. She called me on it and I threw it right back at her and I did start listing how and when it started. We were better friends after that until she moved for work.

[RosieRose221]

12 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I think the root of it was Adam. That's what started it, it never got resolved and it grew.  It was largely the first major thing they've ever disagreed about, neither one wants to admit to being wrong and both want to have the last word.

EXACTLY! 

[Giselle]

30 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Sonja could have just said I don't insult my friends when I drink.

No, Sonja assaults us with her vag.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Giselle
Sonja not somja

[pieinmyeye]

11 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

 

 

Will this work?

LMAO!! 

[ryebread]

9 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Sonja could have just said I don't insult my friends when I drink.

She could have. And I wish she would have. Sonja was looking like a regal Wilma Flintstone before she let that out.

[ryebread]

11 hours ago, The Closer said:

This isn’t about Bethenney vs Carol. It’s possible to think both are ridiculous,

Yass! Great post.

In addition, Carole pretending she just recently discovered how awful Bethenny can be, is laughable.

She was 100% complicit, until she wasn't.

[Gem 10]

12 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

I think Tinsley wants the wallet.  That said, she ain’t getting engaged to him, he obviously has no interest in that.  Jeez, she said they break up because he can’t focus on her and his work at the same time, yet he has time to date others?  Yeah no.  Tinsley needs to develop some self-respect.

wow, for the first couple of minutes I was feeling sorry for B, and wondering what the heck was happening to me.  Luckily she reverted to her true personality.  B, if you want to claim you aren’t bullying someone?  Let them speak.  Constantly interrupting Carole when she was trying to give an example of your bullying is itself bullying.  I so wanted Carole at that point to just say “this.... this continuing to talk as I’m trying to speak, that’s another example of your bullying.”

the whole “Carole doesn’t have a career” thing makes me wonder if B is just jealous of those who don’t have to work.  Let’s face it, Carole is effectively retired.  She seems to manage to live well with no job.  That’s not a bad thing, and it’s not as if Carole spent the season claiming to have a busy career (for that, B look to your right to the delusional Sonja).  

B connecting Luann with Dennis to discuss her legal issues came out of the blue.  Very odd.

Tinsley is over 40.  It’s hard to find a guy at that age.  Scott is a decent guy, never married, no kids, has a job, and seems nice.  He has no baggage so it seems.  But, if a guy cares for a woman, he will want to be with her come hell or high water, and all of the time.  I really don’t think that he’s that interested in her.  She’s coming on too strong and probably forcing him to commit.  No good.  Let him chase her.  She’s coming off too desperate and it’s not becoming.  I like Tinsley.  She’s very sweet, thoughtful, has manners and doesn’t bash anyone.  I really hope she comes back and has a story line.  She’s different than the rest and that’s refreshing.

[retiredviewer]

How can Carol sit there and say she never bashed Bethanny after watching herself bash Bethanny?

[bosawks]

2 hours ago, Wicked said:

They're both right and they're both wrong.  What really matters is the whole thing is boring as hell.

It's like they both want to amputate over an insect bite and then want to scream about the reaction of the other.

[Ki-in]

Just now, Gem 10 said:

Tinsley is over 40.  It’s hard to find a guy at that age.

Please stop buying into that myth. I have a friend who is in her early 60's and not only did she recently get married but she married a man these women would claw each other tooth and nail for.  He is a multi millionaire and could have his pick of any 20 yo but he chose wisely. She went from having a used car that she had to worry about how much gas she could afford to a new Jag and from 3 pairs of comfortable shoes to a walk in closet a la LVP filled to the brim with designer shoes/clothes. All they do is travel the world now.  Miracles happen and dreams can come true...at any age :-)

[psychoticstate]

Dorinda acted high or drunk during the reunion.  She was incredibly combative and she hijacked the conversations constantly.  

Carole can attempt to defend her on Twitter all she likes but she's in the wrong.  Dorinda wasn't drunk "only a few times."  She was drunk consistently.  And that was on film.  What on earth was she like when the cameras weren't rolling?  I find Carole's using Lu as an example disingenuous and pretty dirty.  Surely you can defend Dorinda without citing Lu as an example.  Classic mean girl behavior.  Carole is an asshole.

Ramona, so far, has been very quiet for Ramona.  Of course, so far the reunion has been geared toward questions about Dorinda's (lack of ) sobriety, the Bethenny-Carole frenemyship and Tinsley's eggs.  

I can't help it - - I like Bethenny.  Can she be a rude asshole?  Sure.  But she will generally own up when confronted.  And I find her entertaining.  She wasn't wrong when she claimed Carole didn't understand because she didn't have kids or a career.  Regardless of what Carole said last night, I don't see her as having had a kid or kids had her husband lived.  Nothing wrong with that - - she should just admit it if so.  And yes, many women do pivot and change careers, etc. but what career has Carole had in the alst decade?  Other than being a Housewife or promoting donuts and Mr. Tinsley's coupon thing?  I'm sorry, Carole, but writing one article for Cosmo doesn't really count.  Nor does your spiteful blog.  She can roll her eyes at Lu all she wants but at least Lu used her Housewife name recognition to churn out a book, several singles, a few acting roles, and a clothing/product line.  And she was a licensed nurse and model before that.  So Carole can take a seat with her disdain. 

[KungFuBunny]

13 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

She's the worst with Sonja because she hates Sonja, and Sonja is the weakest of the group - she has the least money, the least status, and she doesn't always fight back well. Dorinda is a classic bully.

Dorinda didn't like Sonja because on Dorinda's first season to the show, Sonja wasn't so nice to her. There was also the scene of Beautique where Sonja says what are you doing here without Dorinda? Followed by a Page Six blurb of John being at Beautique cozying up to a Russian model. It was probably Sonja who sold the story. Dorinda/John in Dorinda's Berkshire house and Sonja walks in in her lingerie, flirting with John. Kristen and Sonja dancing and making a Fudgie The Whale Sandwich. I don't think Dorinda liked that.

The thing that pushed Dorinda over the edge was the coke allegations at the reunion and Sonja said everyone knows you party all the time. Followed by a summer of Sonja in interviews backing that up and standing by what she said. This is what caused Dorinda to NOT invite her to the Berskhires, she used the Tipsy Girl friction as an excuse. The root of Dorinda being loaded for bear with Sonja being the bear is the coke allegations.

All the points above you made are true. Dorinda thinks Sonja is less than the gum beneath her shoe.

With Dorinda I see a lot of self loathing and instead of dealing with those issues she spews it outward towards her target du jour. She uses having a bit too much to drink as an excuse for her behavior - it wasn't me - I don't really feel that way about you, it was the drinks, I had an empty stomach, I didn't take a nap, I'm mourning over Hannah moving out. Oh please, you went furniture shopping with Hannah for her apartment during Bethenny's fibroid season. Hannah's been gone for well over a year before this season started filming.

[CrinkleCutCat]

Bethenny. Carole. They are both right. They are both wrong. They are both upset and hurting. It’s these final blows and subsequent behaviours that will highlight differences....

[ryebread]

12 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Tinsley is over 40.  It’s hard to find a guy at that age.  

I partially agree with that, however, I might have tweaked it slightly by saying: Tinsley is over 40. It's hard to find a guy in New York City at that age. 

It would be arguably easier if she wasn't there. The ratio of single men to single women in New York City is very uneven. No matter the age.

[ryebread]

9 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Dorinda acted high or drunk during the reunion.  She was incredibly combative and she hijacked the conversations constantly.  

I think what we are seeing at the reunion is Dorinda's baseline behavior.  Combative is her normal.

You can tell she's had a drink or a line of coke when her words are slurring and her arms and spittle start flying.

[Giselle]

Whether Carol has a career, doesn't have a career, had a career how lucky is she that she does not have to worry about it and still has a roof over her head and can pay for her life herself.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Giselle

[ancslove]

I wonder if Carole for some reason doesn’t count the THs as an actual part of the show?

One thing about Adam:  Carole seems to view Adam as an extension of herself.  It’s not enough for Bethenny to stand up for Carole, she also has to shut down any negative talk about Adam.  Paying Carole back for her loyalty means being loyal to Adam.  And Bethenny doesn’t see the world that way.  It reminds me of when Carole was so upset and offended that B called Adam and asked for his help, without first telling Carole.

[RHJunkie]

12 hours ago, The Closer said:

Carol is a complete and utter ass who is guilty of the very things she complains about. This isn’t about Bethenney vs Carol. It’s possible to think both are ridiculous, but Carol has put herself on a mighty high horse proclaiming someone else is acting negatively towards her while the same type of comments by her are just merely about holding people accountable. That level of mental gymnastics in order to maintain victim status is quite impressive (if not totally insane.) I can’t even get started on her complaints about someone else’s idea about women empowerment when Carol’s idea of women empowerment is bringing women together so they can all take aim at the woman she no longer likes. Way to show what women can accomplish when they come together!  

Hate Bethenney all you want and call her out on her awful behavior. I’ve got no issue with that, but let’s not pretend that Carol is any less of an insufferable asshat herself. 

1000 likes for you. I'm absolutely boggled by the amount of people that are taking sides here, lol. Disliking one more than the other seems to at least temporarily erase the hypocrisy that's on full display by both of them. I can't enjoy someone getting their come uppance by another who is guilty of a lot of the very things that they are accusing someone else of.

Should I be giving energy into defending Carole's carer throughout her lifetime when this is the same woman that shamed a woman for not having a career because she chose to make philanthropy and her family a career instead? She has shamed the physical attributes of women. She has also questioned careers, drinking habits and eating habits. She has many times taken opportunities where Bethenny was engaging nastily with someone and instead of be silently complicit or call out Bethenny for being too harsh, she joined in - which is an act of bullying that transgresses your own accusations of being bullied because someone wouldn't let you speak (even though you did the same thing to Bethenny earlier). Carole likes to speak with numbers behind her because in her mind it reinforces her rightness. Carole had no issues taking part in the nasty until she felt it was directed at her. When someone is saying bad things about her, they are bashing and bullying her, when she's saying something nasty about someone else, she is being truthful, right and holding people accountable. Fuck outta here Carole...see you never (hopefully).

Bethenny, you most certainly did bash Carole. You are the reason your friendship with Carole began to denigrate. Sure, friendships do go through shifts but when those shifts are influenced by real life events, the solution isn't to rag on your friend for how much she's changed, it's to talk it out and come to some kind of agreement that while other events in your lives may take you away from your friendship at times, you both have to make the time to nurture your friendship, even if not as often as you'd like. Instead, Bethenny went out of her way to create all of these different reasons why Carole isn't into her anymore and it all came back to feeding her own ego, convincing herself that Carole basically can't keep pace with her crazy busy life anymore. Bethenny is really fucked up. Like very much so. I think she wants to be better but I don't think she sees her issues as being anywhere close to as important as her drive to be rich, famous and successful. I wish she would because she needs to discover some real self-love. Bethenny is not ALL horrible. Most people aren't. She has shown that she has a better ability than most of those women to identify moments where people are her are needy and hurting and she comforts them. I think that's real and genuine on her part and I think she recognizes it so well because she's an emotionally battered and hurt individual herself. I do believe that her experiences as a child has negatively shaped her but I do not believe it is any longer a valid excuse for her. There's only so much you can play that card before the onus falls back on you to shut the fuck and do something about it for a change.

[KungFuBunny]

14 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

So people who follow Carole on Twitter, is Carole and her sock puppets live tweeting the reunion? If so what is she saying?

Of the Season 10 HW's only Sonja and Carole Tweeted.

Sonja posted about her dress, Countess and friends, compared Dorinda to the Aflac Duck,

Carole has been Tweeting at herself all night long and is still going. For someone who wants to return to writing and producing and wants to leave the "toxicity" behind - she sure is a Bitter Becky.

Bitch got fired - Bwahahahaha

Can Tweeting at 10000 alternate accounts be considered a "profession/career"

Can "Freeloading" be considered a profession?

[RosieRose221]

13 hours ago, QuinnM said:

No it’s because she doesn’t do anything.  So that’s not a career.  FYI - Andy has a pretty significant career.  The Real Housewives are just one of the shows he produces

I agree - Andy has had a career his whole adult life. He does let his success go to his head BUT he is super sucessful now bc of bravo fans like us that love the housewife/reality drama he started years ago. 

[thesupremediva1]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

She absolutely has a career now.

I have plenty of friends (and myself) who would BLISSFULLY take Radziwill's "non-career" today. She has three books to her writing credit  (two within the last half decade) she's writing a new book, and her novel has been optioned again.  Just about every non-famous novelist, playwright, screenwriter, poet, short story writer,  and screenwriter would kill to wake up to that work situation this morning. And either Bethenny is too stupid to understand that it can take a writer years to write a book, or Frankel is  jealous of Carole's A-list "writer" life because Bethenny remains stuck in the low-rent gutter of trash tv. Maybe she thought Radziwill was her ticket to vacations with Cassandra Grey and lunch with Robert Evans. Maybe that's where all this sour, creepy shit pouring out of Frankel is coming from -- the reason she's reacting like a jilted lover, the distaff Othello of RHoNY -- she didn't get to manipulate and use Carole the way she had planned, and now Frankel is trapped in the world of trash tv that she was supposed to have left behind, years ago. Whatever the damn reason (because who knows what goes on in Frankel's mind)  it's made her look bitter and ignorant and small, because Carole has a career, now. 

 

Thank you. Exactly.

And in all honesty, this debate isn't about Carole for me. It's about the fact that Bethenny presents herself as the only one who's ever had a child, a career, a divorce, a troubled childhood, etc. She can never commiserate with anyone or show empathy. She can show sympathy, as she does with Lu, because it elevates her position and leverage in the friendship. And that, as has been shown over the last 10 years, is all that interests Bethenny.

She has NEVER acknowledged or celebrated Carole's writing success in any way. She often makes fun of it, and of Carole's deceased husband. Those are facts. She denigrates Ramona as having no career when that is patently false. If you do have a career she can use to promote her own, then you might stay out of the line of fire. But she has often made fun of Luann, Sonja, Tins, etc. Again, it's not about Carole (who I don't even LIKE but whose esteemed career I do RESPECT), it's about the pattern of behavior Bethenny displays that she is never properly called out on, until now, by Carole.

Based on the above, you'd think to yourself, oh ok, maybe Bethenny just has no use for people who don't have to work. Maybe she wants to hang out with women who are just as driven as she is. But history disproves this as well. Jill has a career. Bethenny went after her and took her down and used her husband's funeral for camera time. If Jill was complicit in it, so be it. But it was gross all the way around.

Look at Heather Thomson. That's the kind of woman you'd think Beth would want to be around. Truly successful, active career, has children, is married, does charity work. How did Beth treat her? Oh right, she hated her on sight. I don't need to connect the dots here. Every time Bethenny behaves the way she does, she makes Ramona sound like the Dalai Lama. She does not support other women in business. She does push away everyone who wants to get close to her. When you're making Ramona look utterly perceptive, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

But here is what I gleaned from last night's reunion that really bothers me, and what I think is the root of the annoyance of the other women: Beth is the NY franchise. Only a fool would deny it. Just like Vicki runs OC and Teresa runs NJ and LVP owns BH. It would take a stick of dynamite or a nuclear fallout to get them off their respective shows. However, none of them get the protection Bethenny receives from Andy. Vicki has handled horrible reunions, Teresa had to deal with her fame-whore SIL being brought on the show specifically to lead a mutiny against her, etc. Beth never has and never will reckon with any of the horrible things she says or does, because for some reason, Andy goes to bat for her and then boots her detractors from the show. The other women are sick of the double standard and special treatment. They're all sitting on the couch to be held accountable. Bethenny is never held accountable. And the sick thing is that when any of them get within a hair's breath of exposing her, the apple is snatched. No one wants to play a fixed game you can't win, and that's what this franchise has become since B came back. You think Sonja likes B? Hell no. She's TERRIFIED of her, and she's going to bat for her to keep her paycheck.  

Edited August 30, 2018 by thesupremediva1

[KungFuBunny]

14 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I think Dorinda has never forgiven Sonja for making that remark comparing her divorce to Richards death. 

Did she though?

I remembered it going down like this.

D: I want you to be present. You keep bringing up your ex, you bring him up all the time, like you're going to have tea with him.

S: So do you.

Sonja didn't compare divorce to death and which is a more "painful experience" - that was Carole and Dorinda.

Oh I forgot to add Coroner to Carole's career resume - according to Carole when your spouse dies you need to sign Death Certificates. Oh wait, that was 1999 - almost 2 decades ago.