S10.E21: Reunion Part 2

[ShawnaLanne]

1 minute ago, thesupremediva1 said:

No one needs a medical degree to diagnose Bethenny as a narcissist and a liar. Her double-speak was on full display tonight.

Dr. Drake Ramoray could diagnose this woman. All you need are two eyes and one working ear.

Carole's career isn't up for debate. Stories written, Emmys won. It's not Carole's fault she's older than Bethenny and hustled a few decades ago. She doesn't have to get in the current decade to please Beth so Beth can "win." This is why B dislike s her so much. Carole just will not kowtow.

No one needs to diagnose Carole as a narcissist or liar either. It's all up there.

Carole used to have a career. An impressive one. Now she's a socialite.

[UsernameFatigue]

2 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Imo, she's not age-shaming, here.

She's pointing out that she wants to compare resumes at this current time.  Yes, they both are HWs but beyond that, Carole isn't currently working.  There's no comparison between Bethenny's businesses and Carole's...donut deliveries?  

Exactly! I had a career too. I have been happily retired for several years now, so I no longer have a career. I have friends who are still working. I would hardly tell them that my "career" is equal to theirs, when mine no longer exists. 

[ShawnaLanne]

Just now, UsernameFatigue said:

Exactly! I had a career too. I have been happily retired for several years now, so I no longer have a career. I have friends who are still working. I would hardly tell them that my "career" is equal to theirs, when mine no longer exists. 

It's the truth that often hurts us the most and Carole is a neon sign for that saying.

[English Teacher]

2 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

That was my first thought.

We need a bus for that trip to hell.

I’ll bring s’mores.  

[thesupremediva1]

3 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

 

But it's true. Carole doesn't have kids or a career. She used to have a career. Now she's a socialite.

Bethenny talking about selfies is ridiculous.

 

I take severe issue with this statement, and not only because it excuses Beth's venomous comments.

A career doesn't disappear. What you do and accomplish cannot be taken from you. Carole isn't 40, she's nearly 60. She paid her dues and made her bones. I'm 31 and when I retire I will still call myself a writer. I won't say I USED TO have a career just because I'm not 20 and hustling anymore. 

Carole is an award-winning journalist and writer. Full stop. Beth's argument is akin to calling Rod Laver up and telling him he used to be a tennis player. As though getting older and slowing down negates the work and accomplishments of previous decades.

There is zero comparison between Beth and Carole's careers. THAT is apples and spaceships. Both are highly successful in vastly different areas. For Beth to assert otherwise is pathetic on her part.

[bagger]

 

i love these guys 

[UsernameFatigue]

Just now, ShawnaLanne said:

It's the truth that often hurts us the most and Carole is a neon sign for that saying.

The thing I don't understand is that Carole has bragged often on the show that she is lazy, didn't meet the one or two deadlines she has had, and lied to an editor on camera that she had almost finished the fluff article she wrote for Cosmo when she had not even started it. Then she gets upset when someone points out that she does not have a current career of any importance? You can't have it both ways, Carole. Either you care about a career and actually work at it, or you are happy to do nothing and brag about it. Pick a lane. 

[ryebread]

44 minutes ago, Neeners said:

It's really interesting to not have a dog in this Carole vs. Bethenny fight. I used to like Carole, but that ended basically when she got together with Adam. I haven't liked Bethenny since season two. 

Same. I've never much liked either one of them.  Not having a dog in this race is interesting and often satisfying but also confusing. See, I loathed Bethenny first and most, but I'm finding myself mildly sympathetic to her recently because of Carole's loathsomeness. 

I wish Carole would have just left with her dignity intact but nooooo. She had to tweet and make me feel sorry for Bitchenny.  CURSE YOU, Radziwill!  

[maggiemae]

Carole is worth about $50M. Big deal she is retired. Why not just admit you are no longer interested in a career Carole?

[English Teacher]

16 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

No one needs a medical degree to diagnose Bethenny as a narcissist and a liar. Her double-speak was on full display tonight.

Dr. Drake Ramoray could diagnose this woman. All you need are two eyes and one working ear.

Carole's career isn't up for debate. Stories written, Emmys won. It's not Carole's fault she's older than Bethenny and hustled a few decades ago. She doesn't have to get in the current decade to please Beth so Beth can "win." This is why B dislike s her so much. Carole just will not kowtow.

???????????

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

Carole is worth about $50M. Big deal she is retired. Why not just admit you are no longer interested in a career Carole?

Carole herself has stated that number is bullshit and comes from a very inaccurate site that keeps getting repeated.

[ryebread]

11 minutes ago, bagger said:

I thought it was her eye makeup that was making her eyes look slighly crossed tonight.  But now I think she rolls them so much that they're actually going wonk.

Just like mama always said, keep making an ugly face and it's going to freeze that way. ?

[DelicateDee]

Wow! That WAS a lot between B & C.  I'm talking about tonight's argument, not the season long jabs they've taken at each other.  But, really  Carol?  The things you rattled off that B said were minor little digs that you should have been able to hash out and get over.  I saw B attempting to stay connected even while you were separated and she was very busy.  But you couldn't be bothered.  And yes, people with kids, a busy (current) career and trying to manage a relationship with her man, have only so much time to hang out with friends.  A real friend welcomes them when they reach out.  Not try to shut them down and give cold ass responses because you're too busy with your other friends.  Middle School shit.  Bye, Felicia!

[smores]

It strikes me that the RHONY have traditionally always had kind of a "leave it on the field" sort of mentality.  They can (and do!) say some brutal stuff to each other, hash it out at the reunion and then walk away and start fresh.  It's not always possible, of course, but, for the most part, it seems like they are able to let stuff go.  Bethenny and Ramona go at each other, but then they back off, like in the first episode, both recognize that they had a part and they'll live to fight another day.  And they WILL fight another day.  Bethenny and Luann have gone at it, but, Luann was able to let go of Bethenny's outburst and they moved past it.  Even at the reunion, when Carole was reading the texts, she didn't bother to leave out Bethenny saying stuff about Ramona (which, I also think was just nasty on Carole's part, fine if she's pissed at Bethenny, but why say something that you know is hurtful to your "Dream Teamer"?), Ramona pretty much took it in a joking manner, Bethenny tosses out a sarcastic "You're welcome" and they moved past it right away.  They just don't seem to hold onto stuff.

But this situation with Carole and Bethenny, it's like it went "real life" for lack of a better term.  Like when you're part of a message board or facebook group and someone decides they're going to find out what that person's real identity is and expose them.  To me, it seems like Carole has been hell bent on exposing "the real Bethenny" to the world, which she did through her blogs and in snarky talking heads all season.  The only problem is she didn't quite expect for the season to turn out the way it did, she expected people to be on her side, for her to be the RIGHT one, and now that she's not, instead of coming to terms with it in some way, she's doubling down.  

I have said before that I can completely buy that Bethenny is a lot as a friend.  I'm sure she's exhausting.  I can buy that Carole just got tired of it.  But, she never just said that, she hemmed and hawed and made a bunch of other shit up, and talked a bunch of shit about Bethenny.  I also firmly believe that Carole couldn't forgive the operator comment about Adam, which I think is ridiculous, but, fine, she's entitled to it.  But, again, OWN it.  Just say, this pissed me off and as my friend I expected more.  Then don't be friends.  I truly don't think Bethenny would have been shocked to hear any of that, it might have hurt, but she could have moved on from it.  

[Mrs peel]

2 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

 

 

Will this work?

Not sure it’s big enough???

[ShawnaLanne]

26 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I take severe issue with this statement, and not only because it excuses Beth's venomous comments.

A career doesn't disappear. What you do and accomplish cannot be taken from you. Carole isn't 40, she's nearly 60. She paid her dues and made her bones. I'm 31 and when I retire I will still call myself a writer. I won't say I USED TO have a career just because I'm not 20 and hustling anymore. 

Carole is an award-winning journalist and writer. Full stop. Beth's argument is akin to calling Rod Laver up and telling him he used to be a tennis player. As though getting older and slowing down negates the work and accomplishments of previous decades.

There is zero comparison between Beth and Carole's careers. THAT is apples and spaceships. Both are highly successful in vastly different areas. For Beth to assert otherwise is pathetic on her part.

I have a career and when I retire I will have had a career. I'm closer to retirement by almost 15 years than you. I too am a writer. I've been published in a couple of cool places, and am part of a best selling antholgy. I have not been published in years. I am still a writer, but it is no longer part of my career. It's written into our language grammatically: past, present and future. Carole had a career. Bethenny has a career.

I've never heard Bethenny denigrate what Carole has accomplished in the past. But Carole isn't doing anything presently. She has hobby pieces she does occasionally, but that's it.

Love or dislike Bethenny, like Carole, she has accomplished a lot in her chosen field and is presently working in it. 

These are facts.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[ryebread]

8 minutes ago, smores said:

Even at the reunion, when Carole was reading the texts, she didn't bother to leave out Bethenny saying stuff about Ramona (which, I also think was just nasty on Carole's part, fine if she's pissed at Bethenny, but why say something that you know is hurtful to your "Dream Teamer"?),

Co-sign. And it also reminded me of a dick move tonight by Ramona. Was it really important to go into such detail about drunk Luann laying her head in her friend's lap and putting her legs up in the air and being thrown out of parties? This, in addition to what Ramona said about Victoria many years ago, would make it impossible for me to be her friend again if I were Lu. But like you said, these "ladies" drag each other hard and then come back for more.

Yhat Bravo paycheck is one helluva drug.

[Rosiejuliemom]

13 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Not sure it’s big enough???

Well, shit.

Who's comfortable with lap-sitting?

Everybody's just gonna have to ooch over and make room.

Next one will be along shortly, but I can't guarantee snacks.

[smores]

I think the career thing is kind of a semantic argument.  No one (including Bethenny) is saying that Carole didn't have a notable career in journalism or as a writer.  But, at this current time, the show is what she does for a living for the most part.  Bethenny had a career as a chef, at this current time she has her SkinnyGirl thing and is also on the show.  Luann had a career as an Italian Vanna White (I think? wasn't ever really clear on what she did), but, now she has RHONY and she makes ugly clothes.  So, yeah, Carole, like Tinsley, doesn't currently have an "other" project, which is what Bethenny's point is.  

And I don't think she was saying it as a negative, either, along with the no kids/no husband thing.  It struck me more as a checklist of why Tinsley is a better fit as a BFF for Carole at the moment.  I get it, to a point, because I don't have kids and my longtime BFF has a grade schooler.  It's not that we don't have stuff in common, but, the things that I do in my life seem less important to her because she's worried about getting through the day to day grind of working, scouts, karate, homework and playdates.  Someone who is right there in the midst of that with you can connect a bit easier on some levels.  So, I can see Bethenny saying that her having a kid and Tinsley not having one would make Tinsley a better fit in some ways as a friend for Carole.  

[Mrs peel]

1 hour ago, howiveaddict said:

Anthony dying didn't prevent  Carole from having children. Many women today, have babies without a partner. They use a sperm bank or find a donor. Many men bank their sperm before starting chemo. Or she could always adopt.   Also, I read the book too and it seemed like she didn't want kids.   Juif  So if Carole wanted children, she could have found a way to have them.  She had the money and resources to do so.  Not that Beth saying that she was childless wasn't meant as an insult.  But, Carole shouldn't act like it was the most horrible thing ever said to her because she is a widow.

Not everyone wants to start out as a single parent.  Wanting a child with Anthony and wanting a child are different.

I agree that she can’t know if they would have had a child, and I’m sure over the years she’s forgotten any of the annoying parts of being married and somewhat idealizes the time they and together.  

[ryebread]

12 minutes ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I've never heard Bethenny denigrate what Carole has accomplished in the past. But Carole isn't doing anything presently.

Me, neither.

And that's what Bethenny meant about putting current careers up against each other.

Now, if the silly argument would have been:  "Who had the better resume 20 years ago?", Carole would have won that round. 

[TOL]

56 minutes ago, ancslove said:

I've said it before, but Carole only has herself to blame for prolonging her breakup with Bethenny.  She should have told B outright that they were done - she had plenty of chances.  But she gave mixed messages, and every time Bethenny seemed to try and take their "new normal" non-friendship status, Carole came back with "I still love you/I still care about you," all the way through the finale.

I wonder if Bethenny first got jealous of Cassandra Grey and the rest of Carole's LA circle, but convinced herself that once filming started, they'd get back on track.  And then Carole got closer to Tinsley, and Bethenny started projecting Cassandra onto Tinsley.  I also wonder how often Carole's LA friends criticized or questioned her friendship with Bethenny, and whether that helped start Carole's reconsideration of B's personality.  

Bethenny can be thoughtlessly abrasive and even mean (thoughtlessly, because I don't think she always sees how harsh some of the jokes she tosses off are), and I get that being the butt of nigh constant sarcastic cracks can get really wearying.  But, Carole has been deliberately vicious all season, especially in THs and blogs.  That she can't see that, or see how that may differ from Bethenny's background patter of jokey insults is really telling.  And it goes back to Carole just not telling Bethenny how she really feels.

I completely agree with this entire post.  All of it.  And will add that at various points Bethenny was weepy on camera with the others when talking about Carole.  She seemed to be genuinely confused and missing Carole and what they had.  And  the girls all saying “You should just work it out” and minimize the situation doesn’t help.  

Bethenny is lonely.  People leave her.  No matter how mean it was, Ramona was right in what she said when they were on the Brooklyn bridge years ago.  But Carole would know better than anyone that she could have handled this breakup differently.  

[ichbin]

10 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Co-sign. And it also reminded me of a dick move tonight by Ramona. Was it really important to go into such detail about drunk Luann laying her head in her friend's lap and putting her legs up in the air and being thrown out of parties? This, in addition to what Ramona said about Victoria many years ago, would make it impossible for me to be her friend again if I were Lu. But like you said, these "ladies" drag each other hard and then come back for more.

Just about all of them give as good as they get.  About the only two who didn't were Jules and the Vajazzler, probably because they each were only on for one season.   Given time they would probably have fallen in step with the others too.  Tinsley is nearly a non-entity on the show so she doesn't even factor in yet. If she's there next season she'll probably be next in Bethenny's crosshair.  

[ivygirl]

Whether or not B MEANT to be nasty with the “no career, no children” comment, it’s totally tone deaf. The way she talked about C’s notable career like “well, what have you done lately” makes it sound like whatever C has done in the past is eclipsed by B’s current success simply because it’s current; not just a statement about Carole’s current work situation, but one about her worth, purpose, and drive. And while ostensibly you could say that the “no kids” thing was simply a factual statement, it’s an incredibly loaded one. There are various reasons why women don’t have kids—some of which can bring up deep hurts. I may have said this before (possibly in relation to the costume-party jab about Carole playing a widow who’s into politics) but a statement like that reminds me of what Tai said to Cher in Clueless, when they had their spat: “You’re a virgin who can’t drive.” Was it true? Yeah. But was it intended as a remark that could cut where it hurts? Also yes. 

Personally I don’t put it past B to have a remark like that sharpened and at the ready. But clearly mileage varies there.

3 hours ago, bosawks said:

Texts, folders, receipts!

It’s like Darrow vs. Bryan, except not....

This was one of the funniest aspects of this episode to me. Hashtag Lawyers and “Friends.”

I also loved Ramona’s crazy eyes during one of the clip segments. Too bad they were insets and probably too small to make GIFs of.

[Thumper]

20 minutes ago, smores said:

I think the career thing is kind of a semantic argument.  No one (including Bethenny) is saying that Carole didn't have a notable career in journalism or as a writer.  But, at this current time, the show is what she does for a living for the most part.  Bethenny had a career as a chef, at this current time she has her SkinnyGirl thing and is also on the show.  Luann had a career as an Italian Vanna White (I think? wasn't ever really clear on what she did), but, now she has RHONY and she makes ugly clothes.  So, yeah, Carole, like Tinsley, doesn't currently have an "other" project, which is what Bethenny's point is.  

And I don't think she was saying it as a negative, either, along with the no kids/no husband thing.  It struck me more as a checklist of why Tinsley is a better fit as a BFF for Carole at the moment.  I get it, to a point, because I don't have kids and my longtime BFF has a grade schooler.  It's not that we don't have stuff in common, but, the things that I do in my life seem less important to her because she's worried about getting through the day to day grind of working, scouts, karate, homework and playdates.  Someone who is right there in the midst of that with you can connect a bit easier on some levels.  So, I can see Bethenny saying that her having a kid and Tinsley not having one would make Tinsley a better fit in some ways as a friend for Carole.  

I agree, @smores, but I think Beth's comment can also be perceived as a dig at Carole.  Especially if one (Carole) might have wanted a child, and it didn't happen.  It hurts if someone comments on that.  A version of Mommy Wars and all. 

[ShawnaLanne]

7 hours ago, Thumper said:

I agree, @smores, but I think Beth's comment can also be perceived as a dig at Carole.  Especially if one (Carole) might have wanted a child, and it didn't happen.  It hurts if someone comments on that.  A version of Mommy Wars and all. 

Let's go with it being a dig. Carole dropped really low, repeatedly with Bethenny, particularly in Columbia. Hers weren't low key digs. Hers were straight up knifings. Her entire attitude while Bethenny was freaking out, partly due to the break up if their friendship, was cold - bordering on sociopathic.

Carole in her first couple of seasons made it clear she didn't want children. Maybe it was a facade, who knows, she changes her stories a lot. Then she changed it to she would have if Anthony hadn't died. Furthermore Carole mom shamed Lu pretty royally this year when she revealed stuff Adam told her about looking after Lu's kids when he was working for Lu. Which is all sorts of f'ed up on both Adam and Carole's parts.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[Rap541]

8 minutes ago, Thumper said:

I agree, @smores, but I think Beth's comment can also be perceived as a dig at Carole.  Especially if one (Carole) might have wanted a child, and it didn't happen.  It hurts if someone comments on that.  A version of Mommy Wars and all. 

Eh, unless Carole is infertile, she made the conscious decision to not have a child. For whatever reason, not finding the right man, not wanting to raise a child on her own, it happens, but if she wasn't just straight up infertile - and I have never seen any reports of that and her own comments that she would have had a child if Anthony hadn't been infertile - then she made the choice to not have a child.

[smores]

Sure, it can be perceived that way.  The thing to me, though, would be (were someone to say this about me) who was saying it and what context they meant it in.  So, I think if I were Carole, I'd be taking stock of the fact that it's someone who was once a close friend and that the crux of the statement was really why it made sense that Carole was closer to Tinsley at the moment.  It was a checklist of commonalities rather than an indictment of flaws.  

I also think that this is where Carole is in pretty serious denial about her part in things.  She seems to think she hasn't said or done anything that was hurtful to Bethenny at all, which simply isn't true.  She's spent an entire season trashing her on tv and in her blog, while simultaneously trying to exact some sort of penance for whatever slight it is that she suffered but won't reveal.  

Bethenny has always been fairly good at taking as well as giving.  She can be harsh and she can initially push back, but generally, she'll sit there and hear people out and take in what they have to say.  Sometimes she doesn't give a shit at the end, but, a lot of times, like with Ramona in part one, she can eventually see their side, and they come to terms with a situation.  I don't think she has changed her stance on Ramona having a true skin care business at this point (hell, I don't think she does, I think she's trying to get something going, but, wanted to see if she could use the season to brand it and have a storyline), but, if that was something that Ramona felt strongly about, then she can concede that she could have handled it better.  And Ramona, likewise, can concede that her delivery isn't always the best.  I think that if Carole, at any point, had just been honest, or had copped to what she said and dropped the bullshit "Well, sure, I said that because it's the TRUTH" excuses, then they could have made some progress.  Would they have walked away as friends?  Probably not, but, they could have at least been cordial.  

[JakeyJokes]

3 hours ago, scoobie1 said:

An interesting thing about their shouting match was this:

Bethenny :  And I wasn't all those things last year?  Did I suddenly become all those things you say I am?   

Carole then said something like well, I did sort of see it or something like that.  Please stop Carole. Just stop with that.  You didn't give a crap that Bethenny was the same person last year when she was whisking you away here and there.  You were just fine with her personality until you weren't.  Bethenny is the same person she has always been.  

THIS. I have had friends "dump" me in my adulthood for things I OWN a la Lisa Rinna. We usually reconcile, but the Bethenny/Carole thing almost gives me PTSD because of how eerily similar it was to my life. (I was the Bethenny: Loud and emotional and an emotional bleeder: my best friend was the Carole: Cool, collected, and COMPLETELY over me as a person.)

Maybe with that hindsight, Carole gave up so quickly because she couldn't fight two wars at one time: She was really mourning her breakup. She couldn't confide in Bethenny because a) Bethenny never liked Adam and couldn't be empathetic and b) Bethenny was going through her own horrific and eternal divorce battle.

Where Carole erred, IMO, is she didn't tell Bethenny, "I love you and I need a break from you." She strung her along and BF went postal.

I am still a fan of both ladies.

***

Tinsley picks and chooses her battles, wisely, I think. She is juvenile but not a wisp. She told Ramona to shut the fuck up last year.

Edited August 30, 2018 by JakeyJokes

[walnutqueen]

4 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

I don't know...would you really want a housewives reunion show dedicated to you?  Is it considered respectful to have a show full of screeching harpies dedicated to your memory? What does that say about a person, or how the people dedicating the show felt about them?

 

@walnutqueen make room for me in your handbasket. I'll bring wine and snacks.

Ramona Pinot Grigio and Skinny Girl popcorn?  Because although my handbasket's fully stocked, I somehow forgot those 2 items.  I also (conveniently) "forgot" Adam's sexy salads.  Sorry, vegans - you'll need to bring your own.  But I have shellfish for you!

 

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

That was my first thought.

We need a bus for that trip to hell.

Plenty of room in the handbasket - it magically expands in size according to our needs.  And it's beginning to look like we're going to have a big crowd.  

 

1 hour ago, English Teacher said:

I’ll bring s’mores.  

So long as you don't let Carole start the fire to roast smoke the marshmallows.

 

1 hour ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

Well, shit.

Who's comfortable with lap-sitting?

Everybody's just gonna have to ooch over and make room.

Next one will be along shortly, but I can't guarantee snacks.

Sonja's always comfortable with lap sitting (and lap dancing).  And not to worry - we've got you covered on the snacks.

 

When Dorinda was adamantly downplaying her drunken tirades and spinning her circle of denial, I couldn't help but blurt out "You're such a fucking liar, Camille Dorinda!".  Yup,  I watch all these Housewives shitshows, and am not ashamed to admit it.  Feel free to call me Bravo's bitch.

That said, I find these Reunion shows utterly exhausting.  The constant sniping and talking over each other is just too hard to follow.  I find myself in the unfamiliar position of wanting to just make it NICE.

As for having a dog in the fight?  I'm going to have to side with the REAL dogs (and ki-ens named Baby).  They didn't get nearly enough airtime to shine, like ones on some of the other franchises.

 

ETA - Every Reunion should be required to end with cute little puppies for everyone (preferably delivered to the ladies in Ken Todd's shirt).  ;-)

Edited August 30, 2018 by walnutqueen

[Lynnlynnlynn586]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I missed that. There was so much going on. I can see Miss Pretention, Carole not wanting to mix her reality friends with her other set. So declasse.

I can see being hurt by that. Carole is such a crap friend. Between this and bringing up Tinsley's abuse and co signing on Dorinda not having a alcohol problem, and letting her be on air looking like a slovenly  drunken clown- hooker, she's a real piece of work.

I think Carole thinks her shit dont stink and thats what hurt Beth...

[yourmomiseasy]

I haven't read through all the posts yet, but had to post.  At multiple points during the Bethenny and Carole fight the camera is on Bettheny as she's adjusting herself on the the couch and the way her implants and chest bones move, yikes and bleh!

[film noire]

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I don't know who is more unhappy.  So or Beth.

Oh, absolutely Sonja  -- she's living in Bethenny's torturous colon.

6 hours ago, Thumper said:

Who is Cassandra Grey?  (I'm not doing Twitter or Instagram.)

Cassandra Gray is the founder of make-up brand Violet Grey and widow (2017) of Brad Grey (one percenter Hollywood heavyweight & former CEO of Paramount). She has recently entered into a romantic liason with another woman (DJ Samantha).  She and Radziwill go back years. 

5 hours ago, ivygirl said:

 The way she talked about C’s notable career like “well, what have you done lately” makes it sound like whatever C has done in the past is eclipsed by B’s current success simply because it’s current

I agree.  And all of Frankel's implicit "I'm up here, you're down here"  grandstanding aside, Radziwill's current career is nothing to be ashamed of. Whether you like Radziwill's work or not,  in the last five years, the woman has published a novel, a polished up collection of her blogs, a few magazine pieces, and started work on her next book, a political comedy. Throw in two options on the novel,  and anybody outside top tier authorship would be thrilled to have that many recent credits to their name. 

I know that probably seems like nothing to Frankel, what with her work history including having produced the Grammys ("I produced large-scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres, and more... in my past life." http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-2/blogs/bethenny-frankel/bang-it-out 2017: "I used to produce events: movie premieres, the Grammys." http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/blogs/bethenny-frankel/disaster-relief-puerto-rico-houston-mexico-airplanes)

A claim which (let's be clear) means Frankel is taking credit for producing a multi-million dollar event with artists like Madonna on live televison (can you believe the absolute shit Frankel tries to make fly?) --  so yeah, compared to THAT, I guess Radzi's publications in the last five years look like so much Skinnygirl bologna!

 

5 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

Wanting a child with Anthony and wanting a child are different.

Exactly -- as if women are indiscriminate when it comes to their baby-crazy uteruses (FILL HER UP!  DON'T CARE WHO DONE IT!  I NEEDS ME A BABY!)  --  but maybe Radziwill only wanted kids with *this* man, not any other man, or via a sperm bank. Maybe she wanted only Anthony raising kids with her, and never met anybody who came close to that partnership. 

Whatever the reason she remained childless, unless Frankel wants people mocking her for admitting she only married the father of her child due to pressure from Andy Cohen,  she should shut her mouth the next time she feels tempted to drag anybody for being childless,  or a widow.

I know we've got one more reunion (this season is turning into NASA'S 1960 endurance training for astronauts) but it's time for me to bid you farewell, Princess -- nothing will top this week for you.  I know I've criticized you to the nth degree (as I were Addison Dewitt and you Eve Harrington -- "Do you possibly take me for one of your fools, Eve?") From your silly negligee worn in the woods, to lavender-in-ice-cream, to making goo-goo eyes at a seemingly unwilling scuba instructor,  to your deplorable table manners,  you have often driven me mad, but what fremains is this:  the beauty of watching you bitchslap Andy Cohen -- sending his walleye a-whirling like a Vegas slot machine -- and for that, many thanks.

Edited August 30, 2018 by film noire
add second link!

[Drumpf1737]

Quote

she could have moved on from it.  

Why didn't she then? On the trip harping on Carol and Tinsley's conversation. That ridiculous rant about Carol only caring about makeup and posting on Instagram. We all watched and discussed Carol trying to disengage and Bethenny not letting her.

If a writer only publishes one book every 10 years does that mean they have no career in the intervening years? Who made these rules? I don't recall getting a vote.

Quote

 I can see Miss Pretention, Carole not wanting to mix her reality friends with her other set. So declasse.

And why should she?! LOL I really don't get this. Bethenny is not owed an all-access pass to Carol's life. And wasn't Cassandra in mourning? Why would you subject your friend in mourning to Bethenny fucking Frankel? Women with real class who are in the real upper echelon of society wouldn't be caught dead with these harpies who throw drinks at each other and shit on the floors of resorts.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Drumpf1737

[Giselle]

2 hours ago, TOL said:

I completely agree with this entire post.  All of it.  And will add that at various points Bethenny was weepy on camera with the others when talking about Carole.  She seemed to be genuinely confused and missing Carole and what they had.  And  the girls all saying “You should just work it out” and minimize the situation doesn’t help.  

Bethenny is lonely.  People leave her.  No matter how mean it was, Ramona was right in what she said when they were on the Brooklyn bridge years ago.  But Carole would know better than anyone that she could have handled this breakup differently.  

Beth could have also handled it much differently.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Giselle said:

Beth could have also handled it much differently.

Amen, sister (although I am intrigued by the sad image of BethLenny hugging the RHoNY puppy too hard --  "I keelt you cuz I lurved you, Carole!" :)

eta:

Quote

@MostlyContent

 Not so much. The link posted is 9 years old. and B is talking about her relationship with Kelly, The quote was:  "I produced large-scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres, and more... in my past life."  Again, joking and talking about Kelly thinking she was all that (currently) not to endorse Jill's charity.  

It can't be about Kelly, because Frankel made the same claim last year on Facebook, when talking about how she was suited to raising relief for Puerto Rico, due to having produced the Grammys and the Emmys (there's info about it in her thread if you want to nose around). Kelly was nowhere near that situation.

And Frankel wrote the same claim again in her blog last year, October of 2017: "I used to produce events: movie premieres, the Grammys. That's all this is."

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/blogs/bethenny-frankel/disaster-relief-puerto-rico-houston-mexico-airplanes

Quote

 So, B wasn't saying she did that........she was saying she did not. 

No, she was saying she "produced large scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres and more". (What's the and more, I wonder? What's left, the Olympics? The Oscars? Or did and more involve a water bed? :) 

Quote

again, joking

Sadly, she's not joking.  She's really is saying exactly what she said. And she's made the same claim at least three times -- so maybe Bigshot Bethy should stop looking down her nose at Carole's career, and start fact-checking her own work history.

Edited August 30, 2018 by film noire

[yourmomiseasy]

7 hours ago, chewycandy said:

Carole’s hands are shaking. 

I feel for anyone who gets so angry that they tremble...I do the same!

Try getting so mad that you can't see straight or form a coherent thought.  I have been known to tremble too, but for a while I was having disproportionate rage issues due to a reaction to a medication and I've literally been so mad that I can't see straight over stupid BS and knowing I was being crazy just made it worse.

7 hours ago, rehoboth said:

To point out that someone is acting in a childish manner is not age shaming.  Bethenny is criticizing Carol but she is not age-shaming.  I really can't take Carol-as-victim.

The "I know you wish you were 45" was age shaming, not the "but don't act like you're 7."  It could have been just "don't act like you're 7."  The first part served no purpose but to age shame.

7 hours ago, AnnA said:

It's not proof if you write it yourself.    She wasn't reading a text.  She was reading a list of words she claims Bethenny called her.  No biggie!  She said plenty about Bethenny too.    

She had to write it out though because god forbid she go from memory and end up paraphrasing or miswording - Bethenny would be all over her saying she never said that.  That's how Bethenny fights, she likes to get lost in inconsequential minutia and claim that's what makes her right -- just like she didn't call Adam, she emailed him, or whatever, ignoring that the method of communication was not what was at issue.  

6 hours ago, bencr said:

Of course she's coming back. This show may be the most valuable tool in the Skinny Girl branding and marketing arsenal. But I'll bet if Bethenny were told there'd be no more shilling of Skinny Girl products on the show it would be bye, bye Andy.

IDK.  I think she'd need to have some other TVV show lined up to try to fill the big gaping hole of need in her soul.

5 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

KUNGFUBUNNY, as someone who has helped care for 800 rescue bunnies over the last 7 years, I just have to say I absolutely love your GIFs of bunnies! Thank you for posting them! 

Posters have pretty much already stated many of the things I was going to write. I laughed at Dorinda saying that she apologized many times to Lu off camera. But if someone is to say anything to Dorinda - like thank her for a nutcracker - it needs to be on camera or it doesn't count. Noted. 

Dorinda is not only a drunk, but she is nasty even when she isn't drinking. As I recall she was not drinking  when she went crazy on Sonja for daring to compare her divorce to Dorinda's sainted widowhood. I am still ticked that they did not show the clip of Dorinda saying in Cartagena that she and Lu need to go away together for 21 days. Maybe Andy was afraid that Dorinda would go off on him. If I was going to be afraid of any of the Howives, it would be Dorinda. She is nasty.

As someone else pointed out, I don't buy that Scott is too busy to have a relationship with Tinsley. He has time to date others when they are apart. My guess is he just doesn't have a lot in common with Tins. He has a busy career, and Tins has nothing. What are they going to talk about?

Scott: "What did you do today, Tinsley?" 

Tins: "I tried on wedding dresses with you future mother in law, and looked at pictures of the eggs you are going to fertilize one day."  

 

Not to be mean, but Carole has no idea if she and Anthony would have had a child had he lived. Many people think they are going to have a kid and don't because they can't, or they get divorced, or they change their minds.  Whatever. Carole was already 36 when Anthony died. So her window of being able to have kids was already narrowing, especially 20 years ago. But the fact remains, she doesn't have kids. I don't either, and it doesn't bother me a bit if someone points it out. It is the truth. 

I don't think the problem is whether or not being childless is the truth, it is how it was intended and it was intended as a barb.  

[MostlyContent]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

I know that probably seems like nothing to Frankel, what with her work history including having produced the Grammys: "I produced large-scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres, and more... in my past life." http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-2/blogs/bethenny-frankel/bang-it-out)

A claim which (let's be clear) means Frankel is taking credit for producing a multi-million dollar event with artists like Madonna on live televison (can you believe the absolute shit Frankel tries to make fly?) --  so yeah, compared to THAT, I guess Radzi's publications in the last five years look like so much Skinnygirl bologna!

Not so much.  The link posted is 9 years old, and B is talking about her relationship with Kelly, B's impression (right or wrong) that Kelly is saying she's 'all that' NOW.  

The quote was:  "I produced large-scale events such as the Grammys, Emmys, movie premieres, and more... in my past life."  Again, joking and talking about Kelly thinking she was all that (currently) not to endorse Jill's charity.  So, B wasn't saying she did that........she was saying she did not.  

It actually meshes rather well with her feelings about Carole's current 'career'.   She's not talking about past accomplishments.  She's talking about NOW.   

Again, that link is at least 9 years old when B is talking about her dislike of Kelly because she didn't support Jill's charity (because at that time, Jill and B were extremely close).  

Edited August 30, 2018 by MostlyContent

[film noire]

Quote

@yourmomiseasy

She had to write it out though because god forbid she go from memory and end up paraphrasing or miswording - Bethenny would be all over her saying she never said that.  That's how Bethenny fights, she likes to get lost in inconsequential minutia and claim that's what makes her right -- just like she didn't call Adam, she emailed him, or whatever, ignoring that the method of communication was not what was at issue.  

{applause}

Edited August 30, 2018 by film noire

[ticklemepink]

Pretty certain that everyone who watches this show has either had a Bethenny or Carole in their life, or has been a Bethenny or Carole. This is why these Bethenny vs. Carole debates (that’s putting it nicely) are so wrought with anger. There has been so much name calling of both of them by posters (gaslighter, narcissist, bitch, even see you next tuesday, yikes!) that it’s clear many of us see their fight through a highly personal lens. Friendships (and the end of them) can really hurt deeply. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by ticklemepink

[Kiki777]

7 hours ago, ryebread said:

Even if Carole was my fave, I'd still hate her reunion look - head to toe.

Including her reading glasses. 

With those glasses, and the full-length long-sleeved sparkly black gown, she looked like Sophia Petrillo dressed up for a date.  All that was missing was the little straw handbag.

It was interesting, that tidbit about Carole having Bethenny drop her off without having her come in to meet her friends.  I think we've all had 'friends' like that - people we hold at arm's length and don't introduce to our other friends/family, because they say or do embarrassing things.  It does sound like that's where all the hurt started for Bethenny.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

9 hours ago, hottesthw said:

The drug addict who od's, and at the time of filming had no relationship with anyone on the show. 

Proof positive Andy is afraid of Bethenny.

Agree. When I saw Dennis at the end I though that is nice, then omg half of that sweater with no context makes him look like he is an extra on the COSBY show wearing Gordon Gartrell,  then I though FUCK this really IS the Bethenny show. 

9 hours ago, hottesthw said:

If this is how Carole really ended her career I applaud her. She had the balls to prove that bitch a liar and put that other bitch, Andy in his place. 

Bravo Carole, Bravo!

preach !!!!!! You go Carole. Bethenny is a psycho lying POS and has been her whole life. Even unlovable by her parents. Her daughter will reject her too one day. 

9 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Bethenny knew the moment Carole said that Andy was afraid of Bethenny too that that would be the end for Carole. That’s what that smile there at the end meant. 

Bethenny had 2 natural happy reactions 2 when Andy was aghast at Carole. The same joyful happiness when Kelly was breaking down on Scary Island.  Bethenny is truly naturally happy when she sees destruction. Bethennys other FAKE ASS diabolical reaction was her snake smile when Tins said she wants Scott. Bethenny screwed on her smile. B is jealous. 

7 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

It would explain A LOT. I swear they are both acting like ex lovers.

I don't know about B and C being ex-lovers but I do know that all of her other ex-lovers have faced as nasty behavior from Bethenny. Congratulations on getting out Jason. 

Bethenny is a lousy sick damaged POS....

Damn it Carole why didn't you come back with homeless, lost at sea, bleeding to death, doesn't have parents. MENTION IT ALL. 

[Mozelle]

7 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

She retweeted: (from  Bethenny's twitter)

Cs only crime was waking up. Thats it. And if the roles were reversed, B would be breaking a story and posting pics trying to intimate how "close" she was with Carole's guy. Oh wait. She did that already

and...

B never admits when she is wrong. B lies and uses peeps to suit her story/mood. Bs storyline each season is to pick 1 hw and vilify her. B was posting melon picks and sworn off her so called "love". We saw everything plain as day S10.

 

The tweets probably came from Carole's sock puppet's. 

Carole is responding to people tweeting at her. Her Twitter timeline isn’t showing any retweets from Bethenny. She’s quoting tweets from people (some of whom have Bethenny included in the @) and responding. And from what I heard, didn’t Bethenny unfollow and block all of the ladies, save Sonja? If she did block them—I don’t know; maybe it was just an unfollow—then (1) Carole can’t even see Bethenny’s Twitter and (2) Bethenny wouldn’t receive any of Carole’s tweets. 

6 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

No one needs a medical degree to diagnose Bethenny as a narcissist and a liar. Her double-speak was on full display tonight.

Dr. Drake Ramoray could diagnose this woman. All you need are two eyes and one working ear.

Carole's career isn't up for debate. Stories written, Emmys won. It's not Carole's fault she's older than Bethenny and hustled a few decades ago. She doesn't have to get in the current decade to please Beth so Beth can "win." This is why B dislikes her so much. Carole just will not kowtow.

I think this is also large part to all this. In the past when Bethenny had the fall out with Jill, Jill went around telling people that she wished they could make up. Carole isn’t doing that, and I think that’s thrown Bethenny for a loop.

5 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Whether or not B MEANT to be nasty with the “no career, no children” comment, it’s totally tone deaf. The way she talked about C’s notable career like “well, what have you done lately” makes it sound like whatever C has done in the past is eclipsed by B’s current success simply because it’s current; not just a statement about Carole’s current work situation, but one about her worth, purpose, and drive. And while ostensibly you could say that the “no kids” thing was simply a factual statement, it’s an incredibly loaded one. There are various reasons why women don’t have kids—some of which can bring up deep hurts. I may have said this before (possibly in relation to the costume-party jab about Carole playing a widow who’s into politics) but a statement like that reminds me of what Tai said to Cher in Clueless, when they had their spat: “You’re a virgin who can’t drive.” Was it true? Yeah. But was it intended as a remark that could cut where it hurts? Also yes. 

Personally I don’t put it past B to have a remark like that sharpened and at the ready. But clearly mileage varies there.

This was one of the funniest aspects of this episode to me. Hashtag Lawyers and “Friends.”

I also loved Ramona’s crazy eyes during one of the clip segments. Too bad they were insets and probably too small to make GIFs of.

Oh! How I love that you quoted Clueless! 

And context matters in the statement Bethenny made about Carole. Bethenny was also talking about a woman she doesn’t like: Tinsley. So she wouldn’t have just been making a statement of fact about Carole; in relation to a woman she can’t stand (Tinsley), Bethenny was making a dig about Carole.

[BodhiGurl]

7 hours ago, bagger said:

WHO Do any of these women really film with other than each other? I ask because the fact that bethenny doesn’t film with 20 different people leads to a whole lot of speculation that she has no friends at all.

dorinda: John (which she rarely lets on camera anymore), Hannah (once a season or so) and on one occasion her parents. Other than that I don’t recall anyone else.

ramona: Avery and her friends about once a season and her dermatologist/plastic surgeon whatever she is.

carole: I can’t remember anyone except heather  couple times this year. Her mother once in all her time on the show.

sonja: her facialist.

tinsley: her mother once a season and that friend of hers last season thatbhad the dog in the remote control car.

lu: her kids from time to time.

I’m asking because so much is made about Bethenny not filming with friends and that because she doesn’t it must mean she has no relationships. 

I am just sick of hearing how this is fact but isn’t it the same for the other women?

This has also bugged me as well. Just because Ramona has 30 women who will be "ladies that lunch" with her doesn't mean they are all close friends with her (doesn't mean they aren't - but we haven't been shown "evidence" otherwise). Maybe Bethenny has2 or 3 really close friends who don't appear on the show. Just because they don't appear, doesn't mean they aren't friends. Who are all those people who were at her house in the Hamptons her first year back - when John was following her around? I doubt they were ALL employees of hers. She also regularly has people with her in her instagram videos, in the background. Are those all her employees? It really is possible she has real life friends that have nothing to do with the show. Just as we assume all the other HW's have real life friends that we never see on the show. We haven't seen Cassandra on the show - so should we assume she isn't a real friend of Carole's? I know Carole has had her on her instagram, but - how do we know it's really a friend of hers and not a prop? I kid - I kid - I believe that is one of her friends, just like I believe they ALL have friends outside of reality tv world. Just my opinion of course...

[BodhiGurl]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

 

Carole's career isn't up for debate. Stories written, Emmys won. It's not Carole's fault she's older than Bethenny and hustled a few decades ago. She doesn't have to get in the current decade to please Beth so Beth can "win." This is why B dislikes her so much. Carole just will not kowtow.

Bethenny wasn't saying Carole never worked. She never said Carole never had a career, she said she doesn't have one now (via - and I'm paraphrasing -  "Carole doesn't HAVE a career - she can hang out with Tinsley").... Carole HAD a career, one it seems she should be proud of, and noone is begrudging her former work other than the fact that it was almost 20 years ago, and she keeps bringing it up like it was last month. She doesn't even meet deadlines for book contracts and dragged her heels on the cosmo article. Bethenny wasn't incorrect. Was it snarky - yeah... but it was the truth. Carole had a career a while ago - she does not have a "career" now... she had a job as a HW. Being a HW is not a career given they don't film all year long. Most folks with a career can't take off months at a time to travel or to be with a friend who lost somebody (which my the way - I swear I remember reading on the boards that Carole traveled in the summer she was "taking care of" her widowed friend, so it really wasn't "all summer"). I doubt Bethenny ceases to deal with SkinnyGirl during filming months. Even Ramona was still dealing with her business earlier in the run of the show, while filming. We don't see Carole going into a news station to produce the latest story. We saw her bobbing and weaving around her book editor's demands for chapters... for a book she never finished... Maybe she'll go back to writing - good for her. I can't imagine she can go back to producing on ABC or whatever because I'm sure that market is competitive. Unless she has a connection there to do some token job. But whatever makes her happy.

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I take severe issue with this statement, and not only because it excuses Beth's venomous comments.

A career doesn't disappear. What you do and accomplish cannot be taken from you. Carole isn't 40, she's nearly 60. She paid her dues and made her bones. I'm 31 and when I retire I will still call myself a writer. I won't say I USED TO have a career just because I'm not 20 and hustling anymore. 

Carole is an award-winning journalist and writer. Full stop. Beth's argument is akin to calling Rod Laver up and telling him he used to be a tennis player. As though getting older and slowing down negates the work and accomplishments of previous decades.

There is zero comparison between Beth and Carole's careers. THAT is apples and spaceships. Both are highly successful in vastly different areas. For Beth to assert otherwise is pathetic on her part.

Bethenny didn't say Carole wasn't a writer. She said she doesn't have a career (now). AKA. No regular job beyond the HW show. Unless I'm missing something. I don't remember Bethenny begrudging Carole's former accomplishments. 

[lamujerdecente]

9 hours ago, Mozelle said:

I don't think that it has to be all or nothing. I think Carole could have seen all of that and did what a lot of people in friendships and relationships do: rationalize and wave away the things about a person that's giving them pause because they still like being around them over all.

It starts to become a problem when (little by little) the things you thought you could overlook get larger and the things you thought you liked become smaller.

This is why I don't think Carole got fired over telling Andy he was full of shit. Teresa nearly flung his ass like a rag doll and she's still drawing a check.

Teresa (like it or not) was a ratings draw. Carole isn’t without help hence her storyline of fighting with Bethany.

[BodhiGurl]

Carole's tweet about Dorinda only being "drunk" a handful of times...

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by BodhiGurl
posted old screen cap - oops

[film noire]

1 hour ago, BodhiGurl said:

she does not have a "career" now..

She absolutely has a career now.

I have plenty of friends (and myself) who would BLISSFULLY take Radziwill's "non-career" today. She has three books to her writing credit  (two within the last half decade) she's writing a new book, and her novel has been optioned again.  Just about every non-famous novelist, playwright, screenwriter, poet, short story writer,  and screenwriter would kill to wake up to that work situation this morning. And either Bethenny is too stupid to understand that it can take a writer years to write a book, or Frankel is  jealous of Carole's A-list "writer" life because Bethenny remains stuck in the low-rent gutter of trash tv. Maybe she thought Radziwill was her ticket to vacations with Cassandra Grey and lunch with Robert Evans. Maybe that's where all this sour, creepy shit pouring out of Frankel is coming from -- the reason she's reacting like a jilted lover, the distaff Othello of RHoNY -- she didn't get to manipulate and use Carole the way she had planned, and now Frankel is trapped in the world of trash tv that she was supposed to have left behind, years ago. Whatever the damn reason (because who knows what goes on in Frankel's mind)  it's made her look bitter and ignorant and small, because Carole has a career, now. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by film noire

[ShawnaLanne]

5 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Why didn't she then? On the trip harping on Carol and Tinsley's conversation. That ridiculous rant about Carol only caring about makeup and posting on Instagram. We all watched and discussed Carol trying to disengage and Bethenny not letting her.

If a writer only publishes one book every 10 years does that mean they have no career in the intervening years? Who made these rules? I don't recall getting a vote.

And why should she?! LOL I really don't get this. Bethenny is not owed an all-access pass to Carol's life. And wasn't Cassandra in mourning? Why would you subject your friend in mourning to Bethenny fucking Frankel? Women with real class who are in the real upper echelon of society wouldn't be caught dead with these harpies who throw drinks at each other and shit on the floors of resorts.

 

You're right. You only mix friends when you like someone and Bethenny wasn't useful anymore. Carole is a user and a taker and she'd used Bethenny for what she needed and taken everything she wanted.

This happenened before the big break. I guess I just have a different idea of friendship and basic common decency.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[Wicked]

They're both right and they're both wrong.  What really matters is the whole thing is boring as hell.