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S05.E12: Lizability

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SEASON FINALE!

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Change is in the air at Empirical, and Liza considers her options. Kelsey receives surprising news, and Charles finds a solution.

Original airdate: 8/28/18

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Charles finds a solution.

More likely the solution falls into his lap and someone convinces him to take it. Heh.

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I just checked the cast for this episode ...

Spoiler

looks like Clare will be back.

Edited by Aulty

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:19 AM, dubbel zout said:
On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:20 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Charles finds a solution.

More likely the solution falls into his lap and someone convinces him to take it. Heh.

I'm pretty sure Charles can't find a door without someone telling him "getting warmer, warmer, oh, you're getting hot...hotter!!!!"

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59 minutes ago, Aulty said:

I just checked the cast for this episode ...

  Hide contents

looks like Clare will be back.

My completely obvious guess:

Spoiler

She's pregnant

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48 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

My completely obvious guess:

  Reveal hidden contents

She's pregnant

That's who I thought was at the door.  I couldn't tell what the hair color was.

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1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

My completely obvious guess:

  Reveal hidden contents

She's pregnant

ooh, good guess! I'd not be against that, not least because it would finally give us a timeframe for the season.

Spoiler

It would also be somewhat hilarious if he'd generously donated to Maggie's GF before too. 2 for 2.

And how will they handle Hillary Duff's pregnancy during the shoots for S6 ...

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How did Miriam Shor not lose her earlobes with those GIGANTIC earrings? I had sympathy pains just seeing her. And that flower necklace! She must have a genius chiropractor.

They're already hiding Hillary Duff's pregnancy with big sweaters and floaty tops.

Please, there's no way Kelsey would be promoted to publisher, no less, without knowing about it beforehand.

I LOVE the growing realization Charles and Liza had at the end of the episode that things might not be what they want.

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Please let this mean Zane is gone. 

 

Kelsey as the publisher for Empirical is beyond ridiculous and once again pushes the narrative that youth trumps experience.

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Whew.  The DirecTV blurb said "Season/Series" finale, and I was all: "Whaaaaaaatt?? There's a new story to tell, and you're ending it now??"

Not ready to let the series go, so I'm glad that they can stop straining credulity & get on with the story a lot of people (okay: me) have been eager to watch: namely, Liza having success with her Adventures in Publishing-reveal.

Thank you Darren for not consigning Enzo to the steel girder fate.  I guess this would be Miranda & Steve, if they'd met in their 40s.

I don't even mind that C&L looked serious there at the end.  Both their lives are about to change, big time.

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I KNEW Claire would turn up pregnant!  But is it Josh's?  Tune in next year....

I watched the Facebook Live after show and to me it looks like Darren Starr really doesn't know which direction to take the show in next season and is willing to listen to suggestions.  He said something about the fights the writers and he have settling on a story line.  So no wonder the show is all over the place and flip flopping all the time.

Loved how Diana "proved" her devotion to Enzo, but that subplot with the fatberg was almost farcical. 

Chicky?  Seriously?  I guess they wanted Liza's decision not to go with that job as justified in more ways than one.  Again, almost farcical. 

I hate how long it is between seasons with this show.

I LOVED the scenes in Bryant Park, though.  Felt appropriate for many reasons.

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I was so looking forward to this, but now I am underwhelmed. It says something that I think Cheryl Sussman was the most entertaining bit in the episode.

Kelsey, who just got super drunk in front of Charles and a slap on the fingers for getting too close tho her author is the new boss? The woman has zero people leading skills (unless you count leading them on). Anyway, their new salaries should enable both Kelsey and Liza to get places of their own now, shouldn't it?

I had to roll my eyes at Josh's drug infused dream about Liza - dude, she told you she doesn't want any more kids. And yeah, I'm sure that he is Claire's baby daddy.

Diana still doesn't know? (plus everything that @OptimisticCynic said)

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Wow. What a slap to Diana, who is probably the only competent person on staff! Kelsey running the whole show? Yeah, right. That's even worse than Charles and we know how bad he was. Strictly Harlequin Romance territory, by which I mean "ugh."

Laying odds Zane is running Ducky. Direct competition. I loved his grin as the elevator doors closed.

ETA: Of course Claire is pregnant. And just when we were all so very glad they didn't go with that tired-ass trope.

Edited by Ms Lark
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3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

[...]to me it looks like Darren Starr really doesn't know which direction to take the show in next season and is willing to listen to suggestions.  He said something about the fights the writers and he have settling on a story line.  So no wonder the show is all over the place and flip flopping all the time.

Yes, this.  This certainly explains why I only really liked an hour out of this season.  And not a continuous one, at that.  Happy for the C&L action, and Enzo's consistency, and everything Maggie has to say, annnnnnd...time's up.

But this show has been head, shoulders, knees and toes above other basic cable women's series this year.  At least Darren and Sutton gave me charm -- and avoided the nasty brutishness of Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce and Dietland.  For this, I'm grateful.

In the meantime: Hey writers' room!  Get your shit together!!

And ffs, somebody get Hilary some decent clothes.  She's going to be playing a CEO, fer crissakes.

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I like how I'm supposed to remember who Claire is from seeing her.  AHAHAH.  Feels like it's been 4 years since that castmate has been around.  I don't care.

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So if I'm following this correctly: Millennial is now the parent company and Empirical is the subsidiary and Kelsey is the new big boss running everything, completely disregarding Diana the most competent person to fill that position (at least IMO)?

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22 minutes ago, Beantown Gal said:

So if I'm following this correctly: Millennial is now the parent company and Empirical is the subsidiary and Kelsey is the new big boss running everything, completely disregarding Diana the most competent person to fill that position (at least IMO)?

I've seen elsewhere that Diane is not a publisher or editor, she's a head of the marketing and PR, so that's why. 

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9 hours ago, Aulty said:

I had to roll my eyes at Josh's drug infused dream about Liza - dude, she told you she doesn't want any more kids. And yeah, I'm sure that he is Claire's baby daddy.

Oh, spare me, show. Please do not turn this in to Josh going to be a baby daddy so he thinks he and Liza can get back together and can ride off in to the sunset because she won't have to have a kid with him after all because he will already have one. 

Where was Maggie's girlfriend? She's the one that wants a baby, not Maggie, yet she's nowhere to be found (unless I missed it) during the sperm donation talks between Josh and Maggie. 

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9 hours ago, OptimisticCynic said:

If Liza remains Diana’s assistant next season I will find it so unbelievable. I also can’t believe they haven’t told her yet since everyone, including Quinn, now knows. 

That was the most disappointing part of the finale for me. C'mon Liza, find a way to tell Diana! Of all the people, she would probably be the only one who would shrug it off.

I mean, is Diana just going to find out about Liza's lie next season when she watches her on The View?!

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9 hours ago, Aulty said:

Cheryl Sussman

I hope Martha Plimpton returns next season. She's so good at playing this sort of sneaky, abrasive character without sliding into awfulness (in a nonhumorous way).

The bubble for Charles and Liza has permanently burst. Talk about being careful what you wish for!

45 minutes ago, skotnikov said:
1 hour ago, Beantown Gal said:

So if I'm following this correctly: Millennial is now the parent company and Empirical is the subsidiary and Kelsey is the new big boss running everything, completely disregarding Diana the most competent person to fill that position (at least IMO)?

I've seen elsewhere that Diane is not a publisher or editor, she's a head of the marketing and PR, so that's why.

A publisher isn't necessarily from the editorial side, as s/he has to keep an eye on the bottom line (one reason for Charles's constant concern about finances). The publisher is also kind of the head cheerleader for the company, which can include wearing several different hats. It wouldn't be unusual for someone like Diana to be promoted to publisher, but I'm not sure that's something she would want. We haven't seen much of her ambitions, but it seems to me she's very satisfied with where she is. Keep giving her a decent salary and autonomy (as well as good books to promote), and she's great.

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That wasn't even the first time on this show someone got a promotion that was a surprise to them in an office-wide announcement. That's not how that shit works! You meet with someone! You give them an offer! Everything about that restructuring was ridiculous. (And I guess Liza gets a promotion by default, also with no discussion.) Anyway, thank goodness for Diana, Lauren, and Maggie. (Also Charles is a total idiot to give up his own publishing house for a woman he just started dating, but he was a crap publisher so it's not a huge loss -- but Kelsey is an equally idiotic replacement.)

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52 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

I've seen elsewhere that Diane is not a publisher or editor, she's a head of the marketing and PR, so that's why. 

Point taken....that said so is Charles (a publisher and editor - presumably on the latter) and look what a stellar job he has done with it.

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18 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

That was the most disappointing part of the finale for me. C'mon Liza, find a way to tell Diana! Of all the people, she would probably be the only one who would shrug it off.

I mean, is Diana just going to find out about Liza's lie next season when she watches her on The View?!

IKR! Actually I believe she knows but for whatever reason is keeping quiet about it. If memory serves Kelsey told Liza when they first met that Diana lied about her age - granted only a couple of year but still...

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27 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I hope Martha Plimpton returns next season. She's so good at playing this sort of sneaky, abrasive character without sliding into awfulness (in a nonhumorous way).

Speaking of Martha Plimpton, it still gets me that shows still use that trope of just assuming whoever it is on the other side of the door and immediately saying something like "Did you forget your...." and seeing that it's not the person they're expecting to see. I mean, that was a hotel! Does anyone not look into the peephole anymore before opening the door???

And I was thinking, in all of Martha's wild drunkenness that night, that she would just easily forget what she saw, or that she would think it's just a product of her alcohol-induced high. Unless she had another credible source for her blind item reveal.

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FWIW,  Hilary Duff also seems to think that Diana wouldn't care. From an EW article:

Quote

I have no idea how Diana would respond. Part of me thinks she’s just not even going to hear her, or just be fine with it. Everyone else has had such a big reaction that I feel like it’ll almost be really nonchalant, like, “Whatever.”

Edited by springbarb · Reason: Spelling matters
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What the heck was going on with Kelsey's hair in the early scenes?  Usually Liza is that one with overly complicated yet simultaneously juvenile hairdos, but Kelsey had her topped with those braid-pony-bedheady things.

I made it as far as Maggie talking to Josh about sperm donation and Liza spilling the magic age beans to Quinn and I had to turn the episode off, maybe it will be more enjoyable on a different night.  But last night, even Debi Mazar could not sell that dialogue/plot line, it almost came across like she was thinking "I can't believe they're making my character say these stupid-a** things"

And when Liza told Quinn her real age, I thought that was just about the stupidest thing.

Darren Starr not having a vision for the show makes everything make so much sense now.  Liza ending one episode like a boss in a power suit, done with Charles' nonsense followed immediately by Liza dressing and acting like a 12 year old in the next, Kelsey's bizarre story arc, etc.

And even though I didn't make it through to these scenes, the return of pregnant Claire combined with all of this:

42 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

That wasn't even the first time on this show someone got a promotion that was a surprise to them in an office-wide announcement. That's not how that shit works! You meet with someone! You give them an offer! Everything about that restructuring was ridiculous. (And I guess Liza gets a promotion by default, also with no discussion.) Anyway, thank goodness for Diana, Lauren, and Maggie. (Also Charles is a total idiot to give up his own publishing house for a woman he just started dating, but he was a crap publisher so it's not a huge loss -- but Kelsey is an equally idiotic replacement.)

just makes me not enthused for the next season.

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I get why they do it—it's a TV show, and they need the surprise/drama—but I'd rather they handle it slightly more realistically, i.e., Kelsey at least hears rumors about this and her promotion gets confirmed at the meeting. Try to ground things a tiny bit.

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Even with the terrible name, I think it's a no brainer that Liza should take the other job. She could at least work there a year or two and then come back to Milennial. Everything would have worked out much better if she'd gone over there. Plus, we could have had some delightful "martha plimpton is a crazy boss" moments and then see Kelsey and Liza compete over authors. It would be great to see Liza gain even half the confidence in herself that she has in Kelsey. If they both kind of landed on equal footing career-wise but at different firms, it could take the show into a really smart direction where we have to look at whether being younger is better than being older as they compete against each other in the ever-shrinking world of publishing. The name of the show would still work but in a different way.  I can think of a number of really great plotlines that could come from them being at competing firms. Friends but also professional competitors. 

And the whole Josh fantasy was nutty. Sutton Foster and I are the same age. I do NOT want kids anymore. I also am not terribly sure I could even physically have kids anymore. Yes, I know that Brigette Nielson just had a baby and she's in her 50s. But my 43 year old body is dunzo with babies. Beating that dead horse is so silly. 

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At this point, Diana will probably just be annoyed that she seems to be the only person in the western hemisphere who doesn't know the truth about Liza. 

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33 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

And the whole Josh fantasy was nutty. Sutton Foster and I are the same age. I do NOT want kids anymore. I also am not terribly sure I could even physically have kids anymore. Yes, I know that Brigette Nielson just had a baby and she's in her 50s. But my 43 year old body is dunzo with babies. Beating that dead horse is so silly. 

Oh God. I'm so glad you pointed that out! Just because a woman wanted and had kids in her 20s doesn't mean she'll want and have kids at any other age! Another sign that the writers don't know what to do with Josh anymore. Because the kid issue has already been addressed by Liza earlier when they broke up, or close to breaking up - one of the reasons she didn't want to settle down with Josh was because she knew he would eventually want kids and she doesn't want to (or can't) get pregnant anymore. And she didn't want to deny him the enjoyment of being a father.

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Of course Kelsey's promotion and every aspect around the restructuring (and Liza's 'negotiations')  are bs but this is a show that dropped scaffolding on a character it wanted to get rid of - a tonal twist that led me to believe the writers had suffered some trauma and were suddenly hallucinating that they were working for loony tunes. 

I wish we could have a spin-off with Josh and Maggie as reverse Will and Grace - Diana could be their Karen. The rest of the cast could meet conveniently under a window with a piano precariously perched on the window-sill (with the exception of Enzo and maybe Lauren).

Oh yeah - surprise twist: pregnant whats-her-face at the door. Insta-baby for Josh, yay - we all know that whats-her-face will bail after having given birth, right? Josh+puppy-eyes+baby=*groan*

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The ending scene was very reminiscent of the end bus ride in "The Graduate".

So true!  It was so much like it, I expected them to start playing Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence."

Hello darkness, my old friend...

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28 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I wish we could have a spin-off with Josh and Maggie as reverse Will and Grace - Diana could be their Karen.

I would watch that. You pretty much just named the only three characters I have any interest in. Well, I like Liza mostly due to my undying love for Sutton Foster, so she can come along too. She can be their Jack. lol 

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After writing my post I realized that I had placed the main character under the piano without even thinking about it. But she has become boring to watch. In the beginning it was interesting to watch her navigate the world of millennials, trying to build a career in publishing, daring to take a younger lover - basically redefining herself. Now her whole arc is reduced to making googly eyes at Charles and playing second fiddle to Kelsey.

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19 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

After writing my post I realized that I had placed the main character under the piano without even thinking about it. But she has become boring to watch. In the beginning it was interesting to watch her navigate the world of millennials, trying to build a career in publishing, daring to take a younger lover - basically redefining herself. Now her whole arc is reduced to making googly eyes at Charles and playing second fiddle to Kelsey.

And it's a damned shame because the original premise, a 40 something former stay at home mom trying to get back into the working world in a career she was trained for many years ago, had so much potential. But they seem to have chosen to focus on her love life now. Such a disappointment. 

My dream spin off would be Diana and Liza start their own publishing company. Maggie and Josh help with the art side of things, Lauren can be their PR person and Kelsey can come if she can keep her vagina in her pants and not screw every potential client they have. Total lady power stuff. And all of their loves lives can be secondary. They can have them, but none of this will they/won't they love triangle BS. Just have them in either a committed relationship or playing the field. Focus on women being awesome at their career, struggling to start a new company which is never that easy, some clashing between generations, Kelsey/Lauren want to focus on digital while Diana/Liza respect paper books. 

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1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

And it's a damned shame because the original premise, a 40 something former stay at home mom trying to get back into the working world in a career she was trained for many years ago, had so much potential. But they seem to have chosen to focus on her love life now. Such a disappointment.

In the same way they have chosen to focus on Kelsey's love life.  And her drinking.

They've always had a focus on Liza's love life, but it was in the context of her navigating her new life.  Her relationship with Josh was explored in the context of "who is Liza now?" she's not a 20-something, she's not married, who would she be meeting someone new who has no expectations of her responsibilities and her older, sensible self.  The show was not terribly grounded even then, but it seemed to be more of an exploration of Liza's identity as a person and how she reclaims that after years focused on wife and motherdom.

Also, can someone get Charles.    to a.     speech.  ther     a.    pist                        Please?

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4 hours ago, supergirlsudz said:

I can't imagine having a TV show and not knowing what direction you want it to go in. I'd have that shit PLANNED. OUT. 

This. That was... almost impressively incoherent. It went exactly how you'd expect a show being run by a writers room that were fighting about plots to go. If someone told me they wrote this episode - or this whole season, in fact - by playing that game where each person writes a sentence and then covers it up and passes the page to the next person, I wouldn't be surprised. 

5 hours ago, Hannah Lee said:

What the heck was going on with Kelsey's hair in the early scenes?  Usually Liza is that one with overly complicated yet simultaneously juvenile hairdos, but Kelsey had her topped with those braid-pony-bedheady things.

The worst was the one where she had it all swept to the side, and it looked cute from the front, but then they showed the back and there were these ugly pins all down the side, like they'd just forgotten to finish it off. There's a recurring joke in the Again With This podcast that the 90210 hair and make-up team must have hated Jennie Garth, and I am starting to wonder if this team hates Hilary Duff. Her hair and make-up have been terrible all season - all of them have had their moments, but hers have been the worst. 

4 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Even with the terrible name, I think it's a no brainer that Liza should take the other job. She could at least work there a year or two and then come back to Milennial. Everything would have worked out much better if she'd gone over there. Plus, we could have had some delightful "martha plimpton is a crazy boss" moments and then see Kelsey and Liza compete over authors. It would be great to see Liza gain even half the confidence in herself that she has in Kelsey. If they both kind of landed on equal footing career-wise but at different firms, it could take the show into a really smart direction where we have to look at whether being younger is better than being older as they compete against each other in the ever-shrinking world of publishing. The name of the show would still work but in a different way.  I can think of a number of really great plotlines that could come from them being at competing firms. Friends but also professional competitors. 

Yeah. I felt like her taking the job would have set up some cool conflict with Kelsey, which is always much more interesting than her relationship with Charles. The name was terrible but no matter how many times this show tells me otherwise I still don't believe people pay that much attention to who publishes their books. And it was SUCH a step up. I know it's supposed to speak to her character but this is someone who created this whole new identity just to get into this business, the fact that she stays with Empirical feels like a cop-out. 

Interestingly, that scene in the park was the first time I've seen any spark between Charles and Liza, but I think it ended just right. They have both been in that stupid bubble all season and now reality has kicked in and they've realised exactly how much they've given up for this relationship, before it's even started. 

Josh's baby dream: I don't get the outrage. He *knows* he's not going to have a baby with Liza. It doesn't stop him wanting it. That's human nature. And besides, I read it more that it made him realise that he didn't want to be a 'babydaddy' but an actual father with someone he loves, and he'd rather hold off and wait for that, whenever it happens. Liza was just there because he still has feelings for her. 

The Claire thing was trite and terrible though. UGH. 

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2 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Her hair and make-up have been terrible all season - all of them have had their moments, but hers have been the worst

I'm so glad to read this, because every time I see Kelsey's outfits, I think they are hideous and I wonder if it's just me not relating to millennial fashion. 

I thought that Laura Benanti's character was going to reveal Liza's age and promote her in front of the office. It's absolutely ridiculous that they would promote half the team that the company is hanging their hat on to publisher, while the other is still the marketing director's assistant. I have to think the reason was because they're still delaying Diana finding out. Although I also agree that Diana should have a completely blasé reaction, like, "well, obviously, she's far too competent for a 26-year-old and [maybe covering] really, I suspected it all along."

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Josh has babyrabies and a pregnant Claire shows up.  This is jump the shark territory.

Chick(y) is a hilarious name, but certainly a terrible one for an imprint.  And I agree, Liza should have taken the job there.  

 I'm sorry I discovered this show so late; I watched the first two seasons on demand and they were so fun.  I started watching live this season and...meh.

At least we still have Diana and Enzo.

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5 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Her hair and make-up have been terrible all season - all of them have had their moments, but hers have been the worst. 

You know it's bad when during the episode I had a moment of "wait, I think her face actually matches her neck.....and had to pause to verify it was true". That isn't something that should be an attention getting oddity.

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Perhaps the dumbest thing is that once Liza's age was out in the open, I hardly think the relationship between her and Charles would've been Page Six-worthy material. It would've been (rightfully) weird in the office and made for some industry gossip, but not some huge scandal. 

Actually, the dumbest thing was Charles talking about wanting to hold Liza's hand in the office. No, dude, that would be weird under all circumstances. I work with married couples and no one is holding hands at work. 

Edited by retrograde
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4 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

It's absolutely ridiculous that they would promote half the team that the company is hanging their hat on to publisher, while the other is still the marketing director's assistant. 

This made absolutely no sense, especially because in that coming-out scenario that Charles and Liza were discussing, he mentioned that she would be an executive, which is why their relationship would be ok.

12 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Speaking of Martha Plimpton, it still gets me that shows still use that trope of just assuming whoever it is on the other side of the door and immediately saying something like "Did you forget your...." and seeing that it's not the person they're expecting to see. I mean, that was a hotel! Does anyone not look into the peephole anymore before opening the door???

And I was thinking, in all of Martha's wild drunkenness that night, that she would just easily forget what she saw, or that she would think it's just a product of her alcohol-induced high. Unless she had another credible source for her blind item reveal.

IKR to both of these!

On 8/28/2018 at 11:37 PM, Yeah No said:

Loved how Diana "proved" her devotion to Enzo, but that subplot with the fatberg was almost farcical. 

What was farcical, was when Diana said to the policeman "I'm his girlfriend", so they just let her right on through.

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2 hours ago, retrograde said:

Actually, the dumbest thing was Charles talking about wanting to hold Liza's hand in the office. No, dude, that would be weird under all circumstances. I work with married couples and no one is holding hands at work. 

Yes. I cringed so much at this. WHY would you hold hands at work? Like maybe at work-related functions, but... in meetings? Walking between cubicles? Noooooo. 

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10 hours ago, retrograde said:

Actually, the dumbest thing was Charles talking about wanting to hold Liza's hand in the office. No, dude, that would be weird under all circumstances. I work with married couples and no one is holding hands at work. 

More proof Charles is a 13 year old boy trapped in a man's body.

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