The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[roamyn]

Ben and Jessa are perfectly capable of supporting themselves. They just probably don't want to. There are lots of jobs for a fit fellow like Ben, and Jessa could always sell make-up at the mall. Josiah and Marjorie are too young to be supporting themselves. I hope they rethink their courtship and Marjorie goes off to a real college.

I agree with your statement that they could support themselves, but the fact is they currently aren't . They are wholly dependent on JB & TLC right now.

[bluebonnet]

Jessa, and now likely Josh, don't support themselves. Jill theoretically could, but still gets the MacMansion handout from daddy, so far NO Duggar kid has full supported themselves. I honestly have less hope that Josiah and Marge could, either.

Josh almost surely received some sort of severence.  He also has a fairly high net worth and he and Anna have spent years working on tv.  If they spent it all, that's a different problem.  The point being, their father doesn't need to support him unless he wants to.  Josh is still capable of earning his own money.  Jessa and Ben also have their own income sources and have the ability to keep earning (Jessa has co-authored a best selling book, they've had magazine covers, they've had income from the show, Ben has allegedly worked with Jim Bob's businesses and Ben also just completed a two year degree).  Derrick has full-time employment and Jill could work if she wants.  Marjorie is successful already on her own (she's written a book and she runs a blog) and Josiah is fully capable of working.  These spouses all also have their own parents who can help out, like most parents do for their children.  I do not have any issues with the girls living in Duggar rent houses.  

 

The fact is, Duggar children are now in the stage where they will be leaving the home and striking out on their own.  This leaves fewer dependent children as the years go by, which means the Duggar parents need less income as the years go by.  This family is not going to end up destitute unless they do something seriously insane with their money, like blow it all on a presidential campaign.  

[JoanArc]

 

Josh almost surely received some sort of severence.  He also has a fairly high net worth and he and Anna have spent years working on tv.  If they spent it all, that's a different problem.  The point being, their father doesn't need to support him unless he wants to.  Josh is still capable of earning his own money

Golden parachutes don't last forever and we have no idea how much cash he has on hand. I'm sure he doesn't need to work now. But in five years, ten? What if there's more kids? Life has really limited Josh to being a silent partner.

 

 

Jessa and Ben also have their own income sources and have the ability to keep earning (Jessa has co-authored a best selling book, they've had magazine covers, they've had income from the show, Ben has allegedly worked with Jim Bob's businesses and Ben also just completed a two year degree).

All those income sources just dried up, aside from Jim Bob. Hope they saved. Ben's AA, in a social science, in Arkansas? That'll get him a $10-12, full time, no benefits job. If he's lucky. One kid on the way, and more in short order.

 

 

Derrick has full-time employment and Jill could work if she wants.

This is true, but they'll need to downsize. Jill better double down on malpractice insurance. Derrick's only employed by fluke of not being born a Duggar, and having some sense. Again, they'll be more kids popped out soon.

 

 

Marjorie is successful already on her own (she's written a book and she runs a blog) and Josiah is fully capable of working.

A 17 year old vanity-published author and an 18 year old who's never worked outside the home, and who will be parents almost as soon as they wed? Not looking good.

 

 

I do not have any issues with the girls living in Duggar rent houses.

I don't either, but don't pretend that's financial independence.

 

 

The fact is, Duggar children are now in the stage where they will be leaving the home and striking out on their own.

No, they get transferred to a much cushier wing of JB&M's prison of control. The kids can't escape by design. That being said, it's academic what losing the show will do the family.

[sometimesy]

Their lives aren't over because the show ends. Maybe they will be required to spread their wings a bit, but they have a decent next egg and some businesses, land and rental properties (all paid in full I would think). They are starting out better than a lot of people and they still have fans.

 

Don't forget the four girls up and coming best seller... Cookbook, featuring baked stove instructions   or  Beginners Paleontology or how about Gothard Statistics: Population and SexCrimes.

Edited June 9, 2015 by sometimesy

[GEML]

One thing that isn't addressed is that while the Duggars were accepting the love offerings and gifts of food pre-TLC, they had amassed a $250,000 nest egg to be used for either a new home or, as it came to be used, a vanity senate primary run. I'm sure that the bulk of the people who were giving them a few dollars in the offering plate after hearing their children play scratchy violins, or who brought them food had such a nest egg.

Just using this to point out that the Duggars have always been good about looking, acting and convincing people that they are financially needier than they really are.

[Fuzzysox]

Really good article on Gothard's homefoolingskooling from a former student.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/a_former_homeschooler_on_the_duggar_familys_horrifying_fundamentalist_education_it%E2%80%99s_literal_rape_culture/

[Bella]

This is not a thread for discussing education in general. Comments here should relate to the Duggars.

 

Thanks!

[Wellfleet]

What annoys me is that the Duggar's saw homeschooling as basically the easy way out.  No morning school runs, no having to organise homework or after school activities or parent teacher conferences.  The whole "we didn't want them influenced by the outside" is bull.  If they were that confident in their beliefs, they would trust that their faith would prevail over any satanist Jews/Muslims/Buddhists/atheists.  It was much easier to stick them all at the table and have them recite times-tables or go through bankruptcy law (where you don't go to a bank!).   

 

Very much agree. So much in the Duggar world comes down to making an effort - or not. Lazy seems to be an especially big part of Me-chelle specifically. She'd be one of those mothers who volunteers quickly for every school committee and event, then stands around, artfully doing nothing while everyone else works hard. And back again front and center for the team photo afterward. But all the other parents, and teachers, know exactly who those types are.

[Churchhoney]

Very much agree. So much in the Duggar world comes down to making an effort - or not. Lazy seems to be an especially big part of Me-chelle specifically. She'd be one of those mothers who volunteers quickly for every school committee and event, then stands around, artfully doing nothing while everyone else works hard. And back again front and center for the team photo afterward. But all the other parents, and teachers, know exactly who those types are.

 

Oh, my, yes. This is Michelle in a nutshell. She's in every committee picture yet she's never done any work. (after "delivering every one of them," of course)

[MilkMachine]

There's Pensacola Christian (Google their rules if you want to cry for the next generation) or Bob Jones University if they want an accredited degree. (So to speak). There's also Liberty near Joshie Boy. Liberty also has an online presence, so they wouldn't even have to leave the umbrella of JB's protection.

 

I didn't know PCC was (finally) accredited. That's good for their students. I lived in Pensacola and worked with several PCC guys (always guys bc girls weren't allowed to have off-campus jobs). Invariably among the guys I happened to know, they got married and started having babies by about junior year and then had to drop out to support their families. Then they were screwed because they couldn't pick up with night school at the local community college or university because of the lack of accredidation. There were exceptions and ways around it, but it was really difficult for a lot of people.

[NikSac]

This never occurred to me for some reason - I wonder if they had to consider all of the "love offerings" from bridal and baby showers as any kind of income?  I know that normally you don't really have to do that, but when your registry is topping 10s of thousands of dollars and a lot of it's coming from strangers/viewers, I wonder if that changes? (then again maybe they can write off the cost of ice cream as a business expense in that case..ugh, there is a reason I'm not an attorney, I'd overthink everything!)

[JenCarroll]

You don't pay income taxes on gifts, as long as they are actual gifts and not offered in exchange for any consideration. The gift giver may have to pay a tax, but that really only applies to large gifts and wealthy givers (it has to do with the federal estate tax, and while I do know the ins and outs of it fairly well, it's pretty far off topic. Stopping here.)

Edited June 10, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Churchhoney]

You don't pay income taxes on gifts, as long as they are actual gifts and not offered in exchange for any consideration. The gift giver may have to pay a tax, but that really only applies to large gifts and wealthy givers (it has to do with the federal estate tax, and while I do know the ins and outs of it, it's pretty far off topic. Stopping here.)

 

And I'm sure that JB consulted his tax accountant, who verified all this, before old dad authorized the stock-up-the-storage-shed mega-registries.

[Darknight]

I don't understand what father allows his daughter to marry an unemployed uneducated boy? I would think JB would want better for his kids. O wait...

[Seashell Lover]

Even if you paid me to live in a Duggar flip home I would not. Do they use licensed contractors or pull permits or do they do it the Duggar way and think those things do not matter because we are the Duggars and when we want to do something people look the other way?

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Derrick has a "real job".

As for Ben... "Is posting hate and condemnation messages a job?" He asks.

Nope. Derick has resigned his job at Wal-Mart HQ as an accountant.

[Micks Picks]

I have a question.  It was announced that Josh and Anna won't be coming to the Alive Festival where they would be paid 10-20,000 but that Jill and Jessa would come.  These are music festivals.  Do the people at these festivals sway to the music and even dance?

If so, that would not fall within JB's standards with his very strict God who strips the joy out of everything.  Methinks JB misinterpreted this command.  I can't imagine a music festival where people can only stand around saying how godly they are all, not participating in some way in the music.  

[roamyn]

Nope. Derick has resigned his job at Wal-Mart HQ as an accountant.

Well at the time I wrote that he hadn't resigned yet.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Well at the time I wrote that he hadn't resigned yet.

I'm thoroughly nosey and wonder what his reasons were for leaving his paying job that more than likely had benefits.

[MrsMommy]

Derick resigned? When did that happen

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Derick resigned? When did that happen

If you email his work email it says that he's resigned his position and who to further contact regarding his accounts.

[Cherrio]

One thing that isn't addressed is that while the Duggars were accepting the love offerings and gifts of food pre-TLC, they had amassed a $250,000 nest egg to be used for either a new home or, as it came to be used, a vanity senate primary run. I'm sure that the bulk of the people who were giving them a few dollars in the offering plate after hearing their children play scratchy violins, or who brought them food had such a nest egg.

Just using this to point out that the Duggars have always been good about looking, acting and convincing people that they are financially needier than they really are.

That easily could of been money from his parents.     

[FakeJoshDuggar]

That easily could of been money from his parents.

Mary was handing out loans to the tune of ~$50k as far back as the mid 80's so that's completely plausible. Funny that Jim Bob has described his parents as "bad with money" on several occasions.

[CofCinci]

Derick resigned? When did that happen

He married a reality TV star and can make more speaking at a Church or b.s. conference in one weekend than he could all month at Wal-Mart as an entry-level accountant. Money, that's what happened.

[GEML]

As long as gifts are from individuals and are under a certain amount per person (something like $15k) it's all legal. But some of their travel expenses may have been considered payment in kind. I figure it wasn't checks that got Josh and Anna in tax quandaries, but things of that sort that perhaps had been filed under the Trust and TLC but not under their own personal taxes. I'm not suggesting anything nefarious here - this stuff gets really complicated and there really isn't a bright letter law on exactly how to do it. What someone says X is worth for THEIR write off may also be inflated.

[GEML]

There are plenty of extremely conservative colleges they could go to, or "attend" online. That not one of them has pushed to go is in and of itself telling. Yes, Jim Bob and Michelle minimize it, as does Gothardism, but most Fundy families have one child that really REALLY wants an education and fights hard for it. And you usually don't have to wait until child number 11 to find that child.

Of course, only a handful of Fundies have a TV show. (And even there, someone wants an education.)

[lookeyloo]

Do we know for sure that none of the kids has pushed for it or is pushing right now? We don't see everything and what we do see appears to be tightly controlled. Maybe there is still hope.

[JenCarroll]

Well, we know Joseph is going to Clown College. I wonder if they'd let one of the girls go, if they asked.

[GEML]

I'm not convinced Joseph is attending Crown as an actual student. We just know that he is physically on campus. Sometimes.

[Vaysh]

From where do we know Joseph is at Clown College in any capacity? I've only heard it mentioned on these boards. Did the Bateses talk about it on their blog or something?

[Churchhoney]

From where do we know Joseph is at Clown College in any capacity? I've only heard it mentioned on these boards. Did the Bateses talk about it on their blog or something?

 

Well, I don't know if they named the college, but at the end of the Digging in with the Duggars episode (or whatever that was called), they had a preview of things coming up. And one thing was JimBob putting some kind of blessing on Joseph, who was said to be going away to college (or some such verbiage...)

[Joe Jitsu913]

From where do we know Joseph is at Clown College in any capacity? I've only heard it mentioned on these boards. Did the Bateses talk about it on their blog or something?

I can say 100% that Joseph is attending. My co-worker graduated from the there and he has family attending that college who have verified that Joseph attends there. He's getting his flirt on with the fundie girls.

[GEML]

And he is enrolled and attending classes as a student? Because I don't doubt that he's on campus. I'm just recalling Michelle saying he's a "mentoring young students" or something. Michelle is good about skirting the truth "Joseph is going to be at Crown College this year" but it's not QUITE "true."

[PityFree]

Maybe he is one of those annoying people standing at the student union at lunch yelling and trying to "save" people?

[dillpickles]

Maybe he is one of those annoying people standing at the student union at lunch yelling and trying to "save" people?

But aren't those kids already saved by the power of fundie?

I think the Duggars realized that you can find a mate in college.

[Lemur]

Maybe he is one of those annoying people standing at the student union at lunch yelling and trying to "save" people?

 

I dunno.  It's Clown College.  Being Washed In The Blood of the Lamb is pretty much a requirement for admission and/or to set foot on campus.

[Churchhoney]

Maybe he's scouting it out as the location for a new Duggar used car lot. Those young grads will be needing cheap cars.

 

JimBob's going to have a lot of sons coming up (and potentially sons-in-law; see: Bin) who'll need employment. He could be contemplating a fundie-friendly, ownership-limited-to-Duggar-boys used-vehicle franchise operation.

[Happyfatchick]

And he is enrolled and attending classes as a student? Because I don't doubt that he's on campus. I'm just recalling Michelle saying he's a "mentoring young students" or something. Michelle is good about skirting the truth "Joseph is going to be at Crown College this year" but it's not QUITE "true."

the 3 second rule!

[Fuzzysox]

My question can someone answer it for me. TIA

 

Now that ATI wisdom books have been outed in the media, can the State of AR investigate the Duggars for using crappy educational materials? Or can the Duggars say it's their religion and they can teach their kids whatever they want?

[Seashell Lover]

My question can someone answer it for me. TIA

 

Now that ATI wisdom books have been outed in the media, can the State of AR investigate the Duggars for using crappy educational materials? Or can the Duggars say it's their religion and they can teach their kids whatever they want?

As long as they can pass the state mandated tests Arkansas could care less what they teach .

Edited June 12, 2015 by Seashell Lover

[JoanArc]

Besides, they use SOS too...not great but better than Wisdom Booklet alone.

[Churchhoney]

My question can someone answer it for me. TIA

 

Now that ATI wisdom books have been outed in the media, can the State of AR investigate the Duggars for using crappy educational materials? Or can the Duggars say it's their religion and they can teach their kids whatever they want?

 

In a word, No.

 

Arkansas (like most states) has no requirements when it comes to schooling materials or curricula.

 

The students must periodically take grade-level achievement tests. But the test scores are used only to inform the parents (so they can care ... or not), and then the deidentified scores for homeschool students at the different grade levels are analyzed by the state to produce statistics on the average achievement levels of the state's homeschooled students.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Churchhoney

[lilabennet]

As long as they can pass the state mandated tests Arkansas could care less what they teach .

I am pretty sure they don't even have to do that.  I was reading about homeschooling in Arkansas here and here.  Basically, they just have to take the test; they don't have to achieve any minimum score to continue homeschooling, which seems like a gross oversight.  I couldn't believe it. 

[Churchhoney]

I am pretty sure they don't even have to do that.  I was reading about homeschooling in Arkansas here and here.  Basically, they just have to take the test; they don't have to achieve any minimum score to continue homeschooling, which seems like a gross oversight.  I couldn't believe it. 

 

Exactly.

 

Furthermore, the scores are not even actually reported to anyone except the parents, and they are not recorded. The state removes all identifying information before using the scores in aggregate to maintain statistics on the average performance of homeschooled kids at each grade level.

 

This seems shocking to the many, but actually it's pretty typical of the kinds of homeschool laws that HSLDA has been steadily promoting and seeing enacted over the past couple decades. Their reasoning is basically that test scores are a government-created standard and that when it comes to raising children only parent-created standards should be honored. When JimBob said what he did about parents not being mandatory reporters and having full discretion about how matters are handled in their own families, he was pretty much just parroting this thought, I'd say.

[Darknight]

Don't know if this belongs here but very good post about the Duggars and homeschooling http://thehomespunlife.com/homeschool-bloggers-are-silent-on-the-duggar-abuse/

[kokapetl]

In the Erica Hill interview, Johannah pronounced December "Decembaw". I know that in rhotic English, r is a difficult and often the last sound children master, but is it normal for a 9 year old to not have accomplished that?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GeeGolly]

In the Erica Hill interview, Johannah pronounced December "Decembaw". I know that in rhotic English, r is a difficult and often the last sound children master, but is it normal for a 9 year old to not have accomplished that?

I don't know what is age appropriate for mastering speech, but it seems to me all the young ones, including Anna's 2 oldest have some type of awkward speech. My son, who has partial hearing loss, spoke better at Michael's age than he does,

[GEML]

Michael sounds pretty typical to me - especially for a second child with a talkative older sister. My daughter is the same age (within two weeks) so I spend a lot of time in that age bracket.

[ghoulina]

I took my 3yo to a speech therapist for an evaluation because her speech is a bit delayed and she is hard to understand a lot of the times (unless you're me!). I was actually surprised (pleasantly so) when the therapist said she was on the low end of acceptable speech for her age, and she didn't really need any formal therapy at this point. She gave me a handy list of sounds that children should be able to articulate by age and the "r" sound by itself is generally mastered by 8 in girls. Boys are usually a year later as far as acceptable articulation. It can take until 9 for various "r" blends, though. 

 

I've never noticed Johanna having an "r" problem on a consistent basis, though. Maybe it was her accent? Or she just got tongue tied. 

 

Kids are sooooo different. My oldest barely spoke more than 4 words until he was a few months past two. Now he reads at a 4th grade level (he's 7) and uses words like "vulnerable" and "terminate" (talking about killing bugs, not the movie). My middle child spoke really really early, but he has a lisp and I have to really work with him during school. My daughter, like I said, is pretty delayed, but keeps improving all the time. I just think kids do things at their own pace. My only concern with the Duggars is that I don't know that they pay enough individual attention to notice if someone did have a valid problem, or if they'd actually have the wherewithal to do anything about it. But I don't really notice significant speech problems with any of them, other than just not having a very big vocabulary (if I hear "sweet" or "precious" one more time, I'll gag!). 

Edited June 23, 2015 by ghoulina

[GEML]

It is a real risk because parents and family often understand fine. But I do think we've gone too far the other way with pushing somewhat delayed but still within normal limits children into early intervention. (I'm glad, ghoulina, you had someone be more circumspect.)

Europe doesn't have an army of therapists who are somewhat at lose ends now that the young population is contracting again. So they are much more laid back about issues of speech and reading readiness, etc.