S05.E15 Reunion Part 1 2018.07.19

[yourmomiseasy]

5 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

I was also terrifically amused when Craig was trying to emphasize the fanciness of the wall that defeated his butter knife and Chelsea just deadpanned, "It. has. studs." 

 

Yeah, except what Craig was saying made sense and while what Cheltsie was saying was technically correct, it's probably not why he hurt himself.  And Craig wasn't playing up the fanciness of the wall, he was actually kind of explaining the shittiness of having an old house -- you never know what you're going to find when you take the sheetrock down.  Him saying "it's an older house and there was wood paneling under the drywall," doesn't make me think "ooooh, how fancy!"  It makes me think a home owner in the 80s cut some corners and just hung their sheetrock over the dated wood paneling instead of ripping it out -- not uncommon.  

[lezlers]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:29 AM, Sage47 said:

Thank you so much for this Sun-Bun! I two hundred percent agree! Yes, it’s wonderful  that Kathryn has matured and *finally* is doing right by her kids and staying sober but...she had/has serious issues, not just addiction! 

She didn’t bond properly with her kids-much more so Saint. This is very serious stuff. He will have issues from that, it’s not a mild blip. She has often shown an emotional detachment I found quite concerning. The nanny reported bad parenting by Kathryn back then. 

So for everyone to be kissing her ass now and putting her on a pedestal is disconcerting. Yes Thomas did a number on her but she was loony without him too. And she had no empathy for Jennifer’s sick baby...chilling. She is self centered and narcisstic. Let’s please not suddenly make her a saint (no pun intended, ha). 

I do wish her well and hope Kensie and Saint thrive. 

Ashley is vile in every way. 

I think people are forgetting that she was self medicating mental health issues on top of being manipulated by a well connected, established, and much older man, was a "star" of a reality show in which she was the villain and was somewhat isolated.    That's quite different than what Ashley is doing.  She's gotten her act together, has gotten sober and has matured.  She SHOULD be applauded and supported.  Continuing to rub her past in her face isn't going to help her. 

[Bronzedog]

Shep lost me a little with his "Thomas is a great guy 90% of the time" and the bit about how they'd all be fair to Ashley and he wanted to hear what she had to say.  Pick a lane, Shep!  Thomas is the best guy ever in between raping the nanny and harassing the mother of his children.  And, Ashley is undoubtedly misunderstood.  Please!

[dosodog]

I think I'm "one of those".

I support Kathryn getting sober.  I agree that Thomas made things worse.

But I'm in agreement with paragraph 3 from sage47.  Because putting her on a pedestal  (which the cast is doing) isn't always supportive for the long haul.

She's sober.  That led to 50/50 custody.  She's worked hard for it.  

Yet.  She isn't taking responsibility for HER behavior.  She points her finger at everyone but herself for everything.  IMO, that's not healthy. 

There are consequences to actions and behaviors.  I don't think Kathryn should forever be "punished".  I just tire of the revising of history.

One other very unpopular view.  Where's the compassion for psycho Ashley?

Mental illness doesn't have an age limit.  Are we supposed to wait 4 seasons for her to get a redemptive arc before Girl Code kicks in?

Shouldn't we have had compassion for Kathryn before this season?  Why wait for Ashley?  Her social media photos are frightening. 

Two women.  Both appear to have some issues.  One is getting help.  One hasn't gotten there yet.  Both used by the same guy.

If it's real, it's tragic.

[Mindthinkr]

@dosodog There is also a common denominator. TRav. 

I will show Ashley some respect when she earns it. Right now she still seems to be making poor decisions and I can’t abide someone who is disrespectful to their patients by filming them on SM for any reason (without their written informed consent). 

[dosodog]

"Both used by the same guy" is TRav.

Not respect, but what about compassion? Ashley seems really messed up, physically and mentally. 

I think she's horrible in light of Hilton Head, but I feel she needs help.  I get the same feeling watching Kathryn screaming at Thomas to stop.

I don't like either of them, but I would like to see Kathryn continue with the help she's getting and for Ashley to start getting the help she needs. 

TRAV doesn't help, but he's also not their underlying problems.  

If Kathryn doesn't address her underlying issues, she might repeat or fall back into her bad behavior. 

 

I sometimes ponder the asshattery of the producers of this show.......

Edited July 23, 2018 by dosodog

[Bronzedog]

Sooo, this is on again.  I’m confused.  Craig is talking about unconditional love because he apparently drew hearts around his and Naomi’s initials on the cover of his notebook and practiced writing “Mrs. Naomi Conover” whenever he had the time.  He says he’d love Naomi even if she was a heroin addict. Then later he says now hates her because they are no longer together (and, possibly because she got a nose job).  If he loved Naomi unconditionally, wouldn’t he still love her regardless of her lack of love for him?  Is there a Nicholas Sparks novel I should read to understand this?  For years I thought love meant never having to say you’re sorry.  

[candle96]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:50 PM, nexxie said:

Ready?! (Don’t miss the third pic.)

Oh wow, this looks so much better here than on television. I think the problem with some of these reunions looks (thinking of a lot of the Ho'Wives) is that they look great when they're standing up, not so much sitting down on a couch. Kathryn's dress and the low-cut nature of it just doesn't work when she's sitting down.

There's something so harsh about the way Kathryn does her makeup and hair. She's naturally pretty, but just overdoes it. I think this dress would look much better with softer, more natural hair. And the earrings were awful, very Golden Girls. The look all together aged her about 20 years. At least she's back to the red hair, though.

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/19/2018 at 9:39 PM, Bronzedog said:

Craig is going to be a great attorney if he believes deadlines are arbitrary.  I wish I had known when I had jury duty that the date to report was just a suggestion.

Watching the way he said that shit, something clicked for me, I get it, I get why Naomi reacted the way she did. It’s like you’re talking to this person who makes no sense and just makes up his own bullshit idea of reality to suit himself. He doesn’t own anything. No, Craig, deadlines are NOT abritrary when you’re working with other people! The world doesn’t wait for you. 

What’s infuriating is how un-apologetic and unaccountable he is about all of it. 

[Major Bigtime]

Kathryn looked like a hardened old hooker who’s been working Hollywood Blvd way too long.

[Heathrowe]

I just binged the series this month-to me, the big difference between Kathryn and Ashley is that Kathryn was a trainwreck, but she wasn't mean. Someone mentioned how cold she was to Jennifer Snowden at the lunch-that's true, but she wasn't on the attack the way Ashley is now.  Kathryn had a ton of drama with her crap boyfriend. And Landon, but honestly-Landon was infuriating and I hate girl fighting but....Landon.  Also, there is just so much that is fishy that does go back to the money-power dynamic that TRav knows how to work. He clearly has a drinking problem, and is rumored to use drugs. But 23 year old Kathryn is the one who loses her kids, needs to be drug tested, and is branded an addict and has everyone still wringing their hands about how she is not taking enough responsiblity?

Cam's tears-I think Cam is crying because she's given in to the idea that there's no show without Kathryn. Two seasons ago, she probably thought Kathryn could disappear and Southern Charm could be the Cam show. (Cam's original cast, she's the voice over) But Cam doesn't have the willingness to make a spectacle of herself that Reality TV demands. Interestingly, Cam seemed the most willing to trash TRav-maybe she knows more about the allegations? Or because she is friends with Patricia, and Patricia is so angry about  TRav and Ashley harassing Luzanne Otte, Cameran was Patricia's mouthpiece?

Craig started the show FIRED UP.  He is so pretty to look at, but he is nuts. Naomi-also pretty to look at with whatever nose she has-but she is mean. Hopefully she will learn to fight fair with the new boyfriend. It's not about winning-it's about understanding each other.

Shep, Austen, Chelseas.......zzzzz.....I felt bad that they had to sit on the couch for all that since they barely got to speak. 

I loved Kathryn's look-over the top but she is so tall she can carry it off. Cam and Naomi's dresses were great. I think Chelsea is the most beautiful, but her look was not great and her hair looked kind of crispy?

Edited July 23, 2018 by Heathrowe

[nexxie]

9 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

Sooo, this is on again.  I’m confused.  Craig is talking about unconditional love because he apparently drew hearts around his and Naomi’s initials on the cover of his notebook and practiced writing “Mrs. Naomi Conover” whenever he had the time.  He says he’d love Naomi even if she was a heroin addict. Then later he says now hates her because they are no longer together (and, possibly because she got a nose job).  If he loved Naomi unconditionally, wouldn’t he still love her regardless of her lack of love for him?  Is there a Nicholas Sparks novel I should read to understand this?  For years I thought love meant never having to say you’re sorry.  

Thanks for starting out my day with a good chuckle! :)

[lilmarysunshine]

15 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Yeah, except what Craig was saying made sense and while what Cheltsie was saying was technically correct, it's probably not why he hurt himself.  And Craig wasn't playing up the fanciness of the wall, he was actually kind of explaining the shittiness of having an old house -- you never know what you're going to find when you take the sheetrock down.  Him saying "it's an older house and there was wood paneling under the drywall," doesn't make me think "ooooh, how fancy!"  It makes me think a home owner in the 80s cut some corners and just hung their sheetrock over the dated wood paneling instead of ripping it out -- not uncommon.  

And Cheltsie was trying to promote her “she’s just like the guys” persona cause she knows construction, too, along with huntin’ and fishin’. 

[lilmarysunshine]

2 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

Kathryn looked like a hardened old hooker who’s been working Hollywood Blvd way too long.

I have to agree. My husband, who has never seen the show, happened to walk by, stopped and said “Why doesn’t she just pull them out?”

I just don’t see Kathryn as this ravishing beauty. I think she is attractive but don’t find her to be a stunner. In fact, to me she is pretty average without makeup and I guess to compensate sometimes puts the makeup on so thick it reminds me of junior high in the 70s. 

[lilmarysunshine]

On 7/21/2018 at 6:28 PM, Vandy10 said:

In the preview for part 2 of the reunion, it looked to me like someone (Shep?) was explaining how Thomas said something rude to Patricia and that's why they were done. I can't remember the exact words, but that's the impression I got. I wonder if Thomas really did say something truly awful to Pat or if that's just a convenient excuse to be rid of him now that these allegations have surfaced.

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

Edited July 23, 2018 by lilmarysunshine

[SheTalksShit]

For those of you talking about how emotional Cameron was towards Katherine at the reunion, Patricia did an interview the other day that may shed some light on some of the things Thomas was telling them about Katherine. 
 

Quote

 

“It made me think all those things he told me about her weren’t necessarily true,” she remarked, explaining that she decided to maintain her distance from Dennis after the mother of two got back from rehab because Ravenel told her “she was still doing drugs.”

“But the fact of the matter is, she was passing drug tests,” Altschul added. “From what I was told, she would have drug tests every three weeks. And then when Ashley came on the scene, he was making her have drug tests three times a week.”

Explaining why Dennis wasn’t invited to the baby shower Altschul threw for fellow cast member Cameran Eubanks in 2017, the reality star again claimed that Ravenel was responsible.

“Thomas was telling me, ‘Oh, she’s still on drugs. She’s sleeping with her drug dealer.’ All of that is untrue. And that’s why I didn’t invite her — because I personally abhor the use of drugs,” she added. 

 

https://people.com/tv/southern-charm-patricia-altschul-why-blocked-thomas-ravenel/

[nexxie]

It’s pretty funny how Pat “abhors the use of drugs” but has her own private bartender keep her glass of drugs topped up. Reminds me of the old “Just Say No” campaign that came out of the most alcohol-filled White House ever. Ridiculous.

Edited July 23, 2018 by nexxie

[RedHawk]

28 minutes ago, nexxie said:

It’s pretty funny how Pat “abhors the use of drugs” but has her own private bartender keep her glass of drugs topped up. Reminds me of the old “Just Say No” campaign that came out of the most alcohol-filled White House ever. Ridiculous.

 

I don’t recall where I saw it but in another interview Patricia talked about drinking and I believe she said she has only the one drink per day. We have never seen her inebriated on the show nor have we seen Michael “topping off” her drink.

 

ETA: I found the article. It’s a promo piece and asserts that her “dressing drink” is played up for the cameras. So you may believe it or not but I’ve never gotten the impression that she’s a heavy drinker or has a problem. Her stiffness/difficulty in walking and “slurred” words are common effects of old age and I see that rather than inebriation. 

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a22028567/day-in-the-life-patricia-altschul/

Edited July 23, 2018 by RedHawk

[Higgins]

24 minutes ago, nexxie said:

It’s pretty funny how Pat “abhors the use of drugs” but has her own private bartender keep her glass of drugs topped up. Reminds me of the old “Just Say No” campaign that came out of the most alcohol-filled White House ever. Ridiculous.

And Thomas went to prison for providing Cocaine to others so......She just abhors it in women?

[nexxie]

5 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I don’t recall where I saw it but in another interview Patricia talked about drinking and I believe she said she has only the one drink per day. We have never seen her inebriated on the show nor have we seen Michael “topping off” her drink.

We’ve rarely seen her on the show without a drink in her hand - having Michael make drinks for her is pretty much her only storyline. Pat’s got an entitled “my shit don’t stink” attitude. Not just about drugs of choice either - she actually said Ashley is a gold digger when that’s exactly how she’s accumulated her lifestyle. Hypocrite.

[RedHawk]

5 minutes ago, Higgins said:

And Thomas went to prison for providing Cocaine to others so......She just abhors it in women?

Or as many others did she “overlooked” his drugging and drinking because he’s wealthy and from a prominent family. Typical. 

1 minute ago, nexxie said:

We’ve rarely seen her on the show without a drink in her hand - having Michael make drinks for her is pretty much her only storyline. Pat’s got an entitled “my shit don’t stink” attitude. Not just about drugs of choice either - she actually said Ashley is a gold digger when that’s exactly how she’s accumulated her lifestyle. Hypocrite.

I don’t disagree that she has a superior attitude. However, her “resume” has been posted many times. She’s well educated, had her own business, and married well. If that is the definition of a golddigger then that fits of a lot of successful women.

[b2H]

22 hours ago, lezlers said:

It's sad to me that people still insist on doubting someone who has gone so far as submitting to blood tests three times a week in order to prove their sobriety.

AND passing each and every one of them, to boot.  I'm prepared to give her a wide berth.

[lezlers]

14 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

Shep lost me a little with his "Thomas is a great guy 90% of the time" and the bit about how they'd all be fair to Ashley and he wanted to hear what she had to say.  Pick a lane, Shep!  Thomas is the best guy ever in between raping the nanny and harassing the mother of his children.  And, Ashley is undoubtedly misunderstood.  Please!

I was really surprised by this too, especially given how close he is to Katheryn.  That "good ol boy" mentality is hard to break, I guess.

14 hours ago, dosodog said:

I think I'm "one of those".

I support Kathryn getting sober.  I agree that Thomas made things worse.

But I'm in agreement with paragraph 3 from sage47.  Because putting her on a pedestal  (which the cast is doing) isn't always supportive for the long haul.

She's sober.  That led to 50/50 custody.  She's worked hard for it.  

Yet.  She isn't taking responsibility for HER behavior.  She points her finger at everyone but herself for everything.  IMO, that's not healthy. 

There are consequences to actions and behaviors.  I don't think Kathryn should forever be "punished".  I just tire of the revising of history.

One other very unpopular view.  Where's the compassion for psycho Ashley?

Mental illness doesn't have an age limit.  Are we supposed to wait 4 seasons for her to get a redemptive arc before Girl Code kicks in?

Shouldn't we have had compassion for Kathryn before this season?  Why wait for Ashley?  Her social media photos are frightening. 

Two women.  Both appear to have some issues.  One is getting help.  One hasn't gotten there yet.  Both used by the same guy.

If it's real, it's tragic.

Because Ashley is a grown ass woman who knew exactly what she was doing hooking up with Thomas.  She knew who he was and what he was all about and can't hide behind being naïve or young.  She's got a history of gold digging,  set out to make a splash on a TV show and has made it her job to continually harass and attack Katheryn on TV, knowing she was in the middle of a contentious custody battle while struggling with mental health issues and sobriety (all while being a fucking NURSE who should know better.) 

Apples and oranges.

13 hours ago, dosodog said:

"Both used by the same guy" is TRav.

Not respect, but what about compassion? Ashley seems really messed up, physically and mentally. 

I think she's horrible in light of Hilton Head, but I feel she needs help.  I get the same feeling watching Kathryn screaming at Thomas to stop.

I don't like either of them, but I would like to see Kathryn continue with the help she's getting and for Ashley to start getting the help she needs. 

TRAV doesn't help, but he's also not their underlying problems.  

If Kathryn doesn't address her underlying issues, she might repeat or fall back into her bad behavior. 

 

I sometimes ponder the asshattery of the producers of this show.......

Katheryn is on medication and is in therapy.  What more would you like her to do? 

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

to me she is pretty average without makeup

I actually think she is downright homely without makeup.  That said, she is lovely with makeup, preferably done with a light hand, which is pretty much never.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, nexxie said:

It’s pretty funny how Pat “abhors the use of drugs” but has her own private bartender keep her glass of drugs topped up. Reminds me of the old “Just Say No” campaign that came out of the most alcohol-filled White House ever. Ridiculous.

 

Started/promoted by Nancy Reagan.  According to these folks, James Buchanan comes in first in tipping the alcohol, with the Reagan's way down the list at #32. 

https://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/presidents-drinking-habits-which-presidents-liked-to-party

I mostly think PA is ridiculous, and would agree that alcohol, for many, is just a legal substance to abuse.  I will say that I've not seen her where she appeared to be over-served.

Edited July 23, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated
Add the link stupid.

[bichonblitz]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

Again, why is the cast very ready to reiterate Ashley being Satan's baby and completely hold back on Thomas?

I also am curious as to why Kathryn hasn't distanced herself from Thomas, she is also holding back. I get it, it's the kids. However, the only communication they should have is when and where to schedule visitation pick up and drop off. No dancing in the living room at TRav's house, no invites to the birthday parties, no dinners afterwards. She is still hanging on to him more than need be which leads me to believe she is not over him which then leads me to wonder what will it take for her to be thoroughly disgusted by him? Where are her morals? And most importantly, isn't she fearful that this monster has 50% custody of her children? 

[snarts]

50 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I also am curious as to why Kathryn hasn't distanced herself from Thomas, she is also holding back. I get it, it's the kids. However, the only communication they should have is when and where to schedule visitation pick up and drop off. No dancing in the living room at TRav's house, no invites to the birthday parties, no dinners afterwards. She is still hanging on to him more than need be which leads me to believe she is not over him which then leads me to wonder what will it take for her to be thoroughly disgusted by him? Where are her morals? And most importantly, isn't she fearful that this monster has 50% custody of her children? 

Manipulation. She told us what she's doing during the season. Playing to his ego, making him feel likes she's an ally rather than the enemy. She, more than anyone, knows exactly what he's capable of, but she realizes he's the father of her kids and she's going to have to deal with him for many years. Keep your friends close and you enemies closer.

What's her alternative?  He hasn't been charged with anything, it's quite likely he won't be. Do you really think the local courts would take his custody away without a conviction?

[RedHawk]

3 minutes ago, snarts said:

Manipulation. She told us what she's doing during the season. Playing to his ego, making him feel likes she's an ally rather than the enemy. She, more than anyone, knows exactly what he's capable of, but she realizes he's the father of her kids and she's going to have to deal with him for many years. Keep your friends close and you enemies closer.

What's her alternative?  He hasn't been charged with anything, it's quite likely he won't be. Do you really think the local courts would take his custody away without a conviction?

Likely true and yet a difficult and emotionally fraught “strategy”. OTOH, I think she still has a soft spot for Thomas and truly did “fall in love” with him in those early days. Back then he said she understood him and I think he opened up to her in a certain way that made a bond between them that both find hard to walk away from even if it’s unhealthy for them.

I have more to say but will take it to Kathryn’s thread.

[nexxie]

22 minutes ago, snarts said:

Manipulation. She told us what she's doing during the season. Playing to his ego, making him feel likes she's an ally rather than the enemy. She, more than anyone, knows exactly what he's capable of, but she realizes he's the father of her kids and she's going to have to deal with him for many years. Keep your friends close and you enemies closer.

What's her alternative?  He hasn't been charged with anything, it's quite likely he won't be. Do you really think the local courts would take his custody away without a conviction?

I really hope this is it - and it makes sense in a number of ways, even getting through to him about the dangers of Assley.

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

I also am curious as to why Kathryn hasn't distanced herself from Thomas, she is also holding back. I get it, it's the kids. However, the only communication they should have is when and where to schedule visitation pick up and drop off. No dancing in the living room at TRav's house, no invites to the birthday parties, no dinners afterwards. She is still hanging on to him more than need be which leads me to believe she is not over him which then leads me to wonder what will it take for her to be thoroughly disgusted by him? Where are her morals? And most importantly, isn't she fearful that this monster has 50% custody of her children? 

I’m curious too, but hope it’s much more about looking out for her kids than it is about an attraction to him.

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Started/promoted by Nancy Reagan.  According to these folks, James Buchanan comes in first in tipping the alcohol, with the Reagan's way down the list at #32. 

I mostly think PA is ridiculous, and would agree that alcohol, for many, is just a legal substance to abuse.  I will say that I've not seen her where she appeared to be over-served.

Nancy threw lots of alcohol-soaked WH parties on our dime, at the same time she was doing ads for “Just Say No” - I used to say to the TV, “Sure lady, why don’t you try that.”

[SuprSuprElevated]

10 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Nancy threw lots of alcohol-soaked WH parties on our dime, at the same time she was doing ads for “Just Say No” - I used to say to the TV, “Sure lady, why don’t you try that.”

You could be right.  I wasn't there.

[DrSparkles]

3 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

Welp. I see no lies here.

[nexxie]

2 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Welp. I see no lies here.

I actually enjoy Pat and Whitney on the show, but consider them both bullshit artists.

[Sun-Bun]

 3 HOURS AGO,  LILMARYSUNSHINE SAID: 

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

 

Patricia actually was born in Florida and raised in Virginia, so she is a genuine Southerner. Whitney was raised in Virginia until he went off to university. The fact that she and Whitney have spent a batch of years living/working elsewhere somehow makes T-Rav consider then non-Southerners, which I think is ridiculous. They both are highly educated and well-traveled, but that doesn’t mean they’re not just as authentic and knowledgeable of Southern hospitality, lineage and customs as he is. 

But that’s classic Thomas for you—-he’s gone off on drunken SM tirades before, claiming no one else in the cast is a “true Charlestonian” who  lives there and was born/raised there like him, like it’s some badge of honor or whatever. I think he’s just butthurt that he doesn’t have any more allies on the show.

Losing the support of Pat and Whit was probably a huge blow to his ego. He’d never admit that though; much easier just to dispute their backgrounds and inflate his own family history. Honestly, without his family name/money, he’d be nothing; that’s probably why he digs into Shep about his “mommy’s money” whenever they do fight. Takes one to know one—-yet it looks like Shep is the only one who can still stomach having Trashley around.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Sun-Bun

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 7/20/2018 at 7:22 AM, may flowers said:

Craig is an entitled jerk.  At least that’s my takeaway from the reunion. He thinks he’s smarter than everyone else and as a result the rules, like deadlines, don’t apply to him. I used to think he was sweet. Now I think he’s a doubletalking jerk. 

And neither of the talks makes any sense.    "She could be a heroin addict and I wouldn'tve left her" - to be clear, you're salty because her standards aren't as shitty as yours? 

On 7/20/2018 at 7:26 AM, VedaPierce said:

I think not only is Craig pretty twisted in the way he sees the world and his place in it, he kind of subtly crossed a line for me regarding Naomi. He seems more than a little angry at her. He was very rude and mean towards her and it seemed that he went a bit too far. There are a lot of feelings there, and it wasn't just heartbreak. He seemed slightly aggressive. Naomi has her problems, but they were dimmed in relation to Craig's full-on hatred of her. I didn't like how he talked to her so publicly with so much venom. He also kept talking over her when she tried to respond and sneered so condescendingly when she would ask him legitimate questions. He's a jerk. A crazy one at that. Not a great combo...

At first, I really did think it was just some garden variety typical self absorbed dude immaturity.    Nope.   He went as far as to state plainly that he hates her but that isn't all.   This is probably the only thing Craig will ever bring to fruition.   Ya'll? She was his raison d'etre and now she's The Grinch That Stole Feelings.    I laughed when this fool said you let another man touch my cat.  Let's all bow our heads in a moment of giggly silence for the euphemism that actually is.   Because if it isn't?  Bruh, you need real, medical intervention type help.   And a nap. 

On 7/20/2018 at 8:20 AM, Coffeewinewater said:

Hated Kathryn's hair and dress. Her makeup looked good. 

Kathryn is doing all the right things for children,  good for her. I'm still not a big fan. Does she benefit from Ashley and Thomas being disgusting absolutely imo. I just don't buy "it was all Thomas" ,no we saw you Kathryn you were a hot mess.Ii feel she can still be messy.  But whatever . Naomi should be pissed at her. I believe Kathryn.  I'm sure Naomi told her friend something private.  Kathryn runs and tell Naomi ridiculous ex...no that's not right. 

Why was Cam crying because Kathryn was not with her children?  Kathryn had alot to do with that. I hate when people say as a mother...you can have feelings and empathize with a person who going through something with their children , even if you don't have child. 

Austen and those glasses lol.

Me too.   If I may say so, this is what I think may have gotten conflated with criticism for Cam's outpouring.   For the record @Gem 10, I agree with you.   Of course she's got a right to, maybe even responsibility depending on whom you ask, to talk about her experience and what it has/does felt/feel like.   I was nodding vigorously with not only what she said about breastfeeding and initial bonding but moreso with the idea that not enough moms feel comfortable admitting it.    Say that.  Gem getting back to why I agree with you:  it absolutely does sound (to me) as though every one of her latest thought bubbles begins with "now that I have Palmer...."    If I understand this, what she said is I thought it was unfortunate that Kathryn couldn't see the kids before but now that I'm a mom, I get how truly tragic that is cause there's just some stuff you cannot properly understand until or unless you have children (I didn't imagine this, she said that right?) in which case, a) all that's missing is pressing a lace handkerchief to your forehead at the conclusion of this statement and b)  bitch please.   I pick my (childless) neighbor up on the way to work everyday and one day early last week she apologized for getting to the car late - she was mopping up tears from the news that rescuers had pulled the last baby out of that Thai cave.    So, again if I've understood this correctly, yes, Cam sounds like she's an empath now that she's a mom (which just makes you sound like you were an asshole before).   If I've misunderstood it or missed entirely what she was being criticized for (here) - holla back, I'm still teachable.     

On 7/20/2018 at 9:39 AM, RedDelicious said:

Oh the other thing I wanted to add was Naomie's nose job is not about Craig, for crying out loud.  He took it personally which was so bizarre to me.  I think she was pretty before, and she's pretty after.  It's HER choice and I say more power to her.  I had a couple things done 20 years ago and it made me feel great.  Feeling good about yourself/herself is what's most important.

Same with Kathryn.  If it makes her feel better and gives her confidence, then so be it.  Cheltsie has them too.

More crazypants.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Craig: It's so sad that a woman that beautiful looks in the mirror and thinks that needs to change, that's just more evidence that the woman I knew is gooooooone wahahahaaaa!          Naomi:  muffucah, it's not that deep.

On 7/20/2018 at 10:10 AM, Gem 10 said:

After all, Thomas was the one who paid Ashley to come out to Charleston and set her up in an apartment, paid for her clothes, etc. and to be his mistress.  No?  Why, I have no idea.  Maybe all the women in Charleston know he’s a scoundrel and a Master Minipulator.

In one of the last episodes he actually wondered, out loud, in his TH if he was ever going to find a woman who loved him for him.   As though he's capable of walking up to a 22 year old without telling her who his family is and how that could benefit her.    Your ugly, trifling ass can't get a thinking woman under 40 any other way but you resent that she don't have her own money?   LOL!!!   Ahhhh, this dude.   You moved her down here with you, that's what tf sponsorship means.   This sounds way too much like I'm sticking up for Ashley.  Not I.  She's trash and he's a delusional asshole.  I  hope they're very happy together.  

On 7/20/2018 at 10:45 AM, politichick said:

I think Cam was crying in part because she's ashamed of/remorseful about the way that she treated Kathryn, which was not nice at all, and she's still all new mom hormonal. 

Unpopular opinion alert.   Bail now if you're a Cam fan.   Don't take this to mean I don't see all the drama that Kathryn brought and some of the consequences she hella earned.  I see it.   That having been said, she got respect from me at her continuing ability to make the past the past.  Though I thought her contrition was sincere, I was not here for Cam's tears.  At all.  You spent how many seasons trash talking Kathryn?  

 

On 7/20/2018 at 12:47 PM, VedaPierce said:

It didn’t help matters to have Cameron call her a ‘victim’. She’s not a victim. She didn’t get mugged or assaulted. She was in a bad relationship with a manipulative, WEALTHY guy that she thought she could handle and manipulate right back. She had her eyes on his fortune and anyone who doesn’t see that is naive. She also gave crazy as good as she got. Got pregnant. Then got pregnant AGAIN. I get the first mistake, but not the second. Don’t get me started on the boozing and drugging possibly/probably while pregnant. Now Cameron calling her a victim will forever make her feel absolved of any responsibility in that relationship. And that’s a shame. 

Lol.  The irony.  Because who gets pregnant alone?

On 7/20/2018 at 1:09 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

As I said, it makes sense to me, someone that sews, that he's storing his projects without pillow forms in them.  He said he had 20 when Cam came over.  That would take up a ton of room if he stored them with forms in them.  Also, as I said, he showed Cam a bolster that appeared to display beyond beginner skills.  He's also picking out his fabrics and using more than one in a project.  If he was a woman no one would be making fun of his sewing.

I'm on a unpopular roll so I might as well keep going lol.   I also refute the assertion that the surprise about Craig sewing/having a machine is gender bias.  I don't think it's shock that a guy would sew more than it's shock that this guy sews.  I don't sew or knit but it seems like something you'd have finish for people to be able to tell you're good at.    Here I made you an unfinished, unstuffed teddy bear for if I ever feel like getting back to it.  Maybe Palmer can finish making it.    Craig is the kind of dude who doesn't understand why you should be rewarded for the effort not just the result.  Um Craig, we stop having everybody gets a trophy races right around 4th grade boo, seek help.  Better still, work for the government.

On 7/21/2018 at 1:26 AM, jumper sage said:

You are so right.  My brother is the one who sews in the family and received both our grandmothers and our mothers sewing stuff.  Threads, buttons, zippers, and other whatnots.  @breezy424 - It's great having someone do your alterations for you and whip up curtains, no?

Well she was right and did not have a great time.

I, like Cam, found pregnancy and childbirth to be the worst experience of my life and vowed it would never, ever happen again.  I still have nightmares of running around the hospital parking lot with my sister and brother chasing me to get me inside.  If they hadn't drugged me to high heaven I would have chose death, I am not kidding.  I also have nightmares of being told I am pregnant and wake up screaming.  At baby showers I sit in a corner and shut the hell up.

I apologize for giggling at this, it was serious enough to ward you off conception ever again.  But girl, this image is hilarious!!!  I also wanted you to know you had a sister in fear.  My mom, midwife and best friend were my wranglers and my deal was unless anesthesiology showed up with a generously filled  jumbo needle I wasn't doing shit! (verbatim quote).    Then:  back contractions.  Yadda yadda yadda, there's nothing wrong with only children lmao!

[lilmarysunshine]

4 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

Went back to get exact words from Shep: “Thomas said ‘Why don’t you go back to New York, Miss Queen of Southern Gentility’ and there goes the bridge. Torched.”

[Sun-Bun]

8 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I apologize for giggling at this, it was serious enough to ward you off conception ever again.  But girl, this image is hilarious!!!  I also wanted you to know you had a sister in fear.  My mom, midwife and best friend were my wranglers and my deal was unless anesthesiology showed up with a generously filled  jumbo needle I wasn't doing shit! (verbatim quote).    Then:  back contractions.  Yadda yadda yadda, there's nothing wrong with only children lmao!

Sister in pregnancy fear/disgust here too—-part of the reason I’m Childfree is the very idea of being pregnant with a child inside me and then dealing with hours of labor to get it out of me and deal with the body’s effects post-birth just seems intensely terrifying. And then somehow having to deal with boobs squirting out milk at all hours when you’re not having to suddenly find a comfy way for a baby to slurp on them?! I still literally have ongoing nightmares about having a baby.

Good to know there are those of us who feel the same way and yet *still* were brave enough to actually go through it at least once! Thank you, ladies!!

And I appreciate Cameron’s intense honesty about childbirth/motherhood. She obviously loved her husband enough to birth him a child like she knew he truly wanted, despite her own ongoing reluctance. I wish more new mothers were as honest as she is about the whole process: pregnancy isn’t very fun and is a lengthy and painful process. Labor is typically long and messy. New motherhood is mind-bogglingly tiring and intense; it’s nice to see her admit that she would often break down crying in the very beginning, wondering why she did it. That’s real, raw and honest—-even Kathryn wasn’t nearly as open about that side of new motherhood as Cam has been. It’s a refreshing change to see someone finally ditch the new motherhood bullshit and be grossly honest about what really happens!

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I have to agree. My husband, who has never seen the show, happened to walk by, stopped and said “Why doesn’t she just pull them out?”

I just don’t see Kathryn as this ravishing beauty. I think she is attractive but don’t find her to be a stunner. In fact, to me she is pretty average without makeup and I guess to compensate sometimes puts the makeup on so thick it reminds me of junior high in the 70s. 

I am not a Kathryn fan at all, however, I do find Kathryn to be strikingly beautiful, when she is done up glamorously and, I also find a very subtle beauty in her simple, unmade look.  Reminds me of the old school Calvin Klein look when Brook Shields was popular. (In the link below you see the old Kate Moss ads where she appears to have no eyelashes.) HOWEVER, all of that means nothing due to how Kathryn appeared baring almost her complete breast in the Reunion.  Cleavage is one thing and fine, but, that much exposure, makes me think that she might be deranged. Something isn't right in her mind, imo, especially, being a parent. It's bizarre, imo.  

https://fashionista.com/2017/06/calvin-klein-obsessed-kate-moss-campaign

Edited July 23, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Higgins]

I loved being pregnant and childbirth wasn't nearly as bad as kidney stones and I got three great daughters instead of a calcium stone to remember it all.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Higgins

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

And neither of the talks makes any sense.    "She could be a heroin addict and I wouldn'tve left her" - to be clear, you're salty because her standards aren't as shitty as yours? 

At first, I really did think it was just some garden variety typical self absorbed dude immaturity.    Nope.   He went as far as to state plainly that he hates her but that isn't all.   This is probably the only thing Craig will ever bring to fruition.   Ya'll? She was his raison d'etre and now she's The Grinch That Stole Feelings.    I laughed when this fool said you let another man touch my cat.  Let's all bow our heads in a moment of giggly silence for the euphemism that actually is.   Because if it isn't?  Bruh, you need real, medical intervention type help.   And a nap. 

Me too.   If I may say so, this is what I think may have gotten conflated with criticism for Cam's outpouring.   For the record @Gem 10, I agree with you.   Of course she's got a right to, maybe even responsibility depending on whom you ask, to talk about her experience and what it has/does felt/feel like.   I was nodding vigorously with not only what she said about breastfeeding and initial bonding but moreso with the idea that not enough moms feel comfortable admitting it.    Say that.  Gem getting back to why I agree with you:  it absolutely does sound (to me) as though every one of her latest thought bubbles begins with "now that I have Palmer...."    If I understand this, what she said is I thought it was unfortunate that Kathryn couldn't see the kids before but now that I'm a mom, I get how truly tragic that is cause there's just some stuff you cannot properly understand until or unless you have children (I didn't imagine this, she said that right?) in which case, a) all that's missing is pressing a lace handkerchief to your forehead at the conclusion of this statement and b)  bitch please.   I pick my (childless) neighbor up on the way to work everyday and one day early last week she apologized for getting to the car late - she was mopping up tears from the news that rescuers had pulled the last baby out of that Thai cave.    So, again if I've understood this correctly, yes, Cam sounds like she's an empath now that she's a mom (which just makes you sound like you were an asshole before).   If I've misunderstood it or missed entirely what she was being criticized for (here) - holla back, I'm still teachable.     

More crazypants.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Craig: It's so sad that a woman that beautiful looks in the mirror and thinks that needs to change, that's just more evidence that the woman I knew is gooooooone wahahahaaaa!          Naomi:  muffucah, it's not that deep.

In one of the last episodes he actually wondered, out loud, in his TH if he was ever going to find a woman who loved him for him.   As though he's capable of walking up to a 22 year old without telling her who his family is and how that could benefit her.    Your ugly, trifling ass can't get a thinking woman under 40 any other way but you resent that she don't have her own money?   LOL!!!   Ahhhh, this dude.   You moved her down here with you, that's what tf sponsorship means.   This sounds way too much like I'm sticking up for Ashley.  Not I.  She's trash and he's a delusional asshole.  I  hope they're very happy together.  

Unpopular opinion alert.   Bail now if you're a Cam fan.   Don't take this to mean I don't see all the drama that Kathryn brought and some of the consequences she hella earned.  I see it.   That having been said, she got respect from me at her continuing ability to make the past the past.  Though I thought her contrition was sincere, I was not here for Cam's tears.  At all.  You spent how many seasons trash talking Kathryn?  

 

Lol.  The irony.  Because who gets pregnant alone?

I'm on a unpopular roll so I might as well keep going lol.   I also refute the assertion that the surprise about Craig sewing/having a machine is gender bias.  I don't think it's shock that a guy would sew more than it's shock that this guy sews.  I don't sew or knit but it seems like something you'd have finish for people to be able to tell you're good at.    Here I made you an unfinished, unstuffed teddy bear for if I ever feel like getting back to it.  Maybe Palmer can finish making it.    Craig is the kind of dude who doesn't understand why you should be rewarded for the effort not just the result.  Um Craig, we stop having everybody gets a trophy races right around 4th grade boo, seek help.  Better still, work for the government.

I apologize for giggling at this, it was serious enough to ward you off conception ever again.  But girl, this image is hilarious!!!  I also wanted you to know you had a sister in fear.  My mom, midwife and best friend were my wranglers and my deal was unless anesthesiology showed up with a generously filled  jumbo needle I wasn't doing shit! (verbatim quote).    Then:  back contractions.  Yadda yadda yadda, there's nothing wrong with only children lmao!

I always say “just let ONE man go through childbirth” and the whole world would hear about it.  They whine about a splinter.  My husband has an itchy rash from a medication, and I hear about it 20 times a day.

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Cleavage is one thing and fine, but, that much exposure, makes me think that she might be deranged. Something isn't right in her mind, imo, especially, being a parent. It's bizarre, imo.  

Called Bravo derangement.

[Higgins]

2 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

 3 HOURS AGO,  LILMARYSUNSHINE SAID: 

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

 

Patricia actually was born in Florida and raised in Virginia, so she is a genuine Southerner. Whitney was raised in Virginia until he went off to university. The fact that she and Whitney have spent a batch of years living/working elsewhere somehow makes T-Rav consider then non-Southerners, which I think is ridiculous. They both are highly educated and well-traveled, but that doesn’t mean they’re not just as authentic and knowledgeable of Southern hospitality, lineage and customs as he is. 

But that’s classic Thomas for you—-he’s gone off on drunken SM tirades before, claiming no one else in the cast is a “true Charlestonian” who  lives there and was born/raised there like him, like it’s some badge of honor or whatever. I think he’s just butthurt that he doesn’t have any more allies on the show.

Losing the support of Pat and Whit was probably a huge blow to his ego. He’d never admit that though; much easier just to dispute their backgrounds and inflate his own family history. Honestly, without his family name/money, he’d be nothing; that’s probably why he digs into Shep about his “mommy’s money” whenever they do fight. Takes one to know one—-yet it looks like Shep is the only one who can still stomach having Trashley around.

Whitney grew up in NOVA. While technically "South" geographically,  Northern Virginia is not culturally Southern and has not been for nearly half a century. 

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

Whitney grew up in NOVA. While technically "South" geographically,  Northern Virginia is not culturally Southern and has not been for nearly half a century. 

I don't think Whitney particularly identifies as Southern. Patricia grew up in and was educated in the South and lived in DC when it was considered a Southern city. Or as John F. Kennedy once said, "A city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm." As a long-time DC resident, my observation was that DC began to lose its essential "southern-ness" in the late '90s. 

Also, T-Rav is full of shit.

[Higgins]

48 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I don't think Whitney particularly identifies as Southern. Patricia grew up in and was educated in the South and lived in DC when it was considered a Southern city. Or as John F. Kennedy once said, "A city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm." As a long-time DC resident, my observation was that DC began to lose its essential "southern-ness" in the late '90s. 

Also, T-Rav is full of shit.

Born and raised in Fairfax County in the 70s and 80s, never felt southern to me. 

[RedHawk]

Just now, Higgins said:

Born and raised in Fairfax County in the 70s and 80s, never felt southern to me. 

Fairfax County is not DC. I wasn’t talking about NoVa. 

[TheFinalRose]

Quote

I loved being pregnant and childbirth wasn't nearly as bad as kidney stones and I got three great daughters instead of a calcium stone to remember it all.

I've birthed kids and had kidney stones; both made me throw up in pain. Luckily, the folks in the labor and delivery suite got the pain meds in me faster than the doofuses in the ER.  But pain meds made both bearable. I do not for the life of me understand why any woman alive today refuses pain meds for labor and delivery. That's the kind of hero motherhood dynamic I can't wrap my head around. 

 

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I always say “just let ONE man go through childbirth” and the whole world would hear about it.  They whine about a splinter.  My husband has an itchy rash from a medication, and I hear about it 20 times a day.

Amen to this.
 

Quote

 

Patricia grew up in and was educated in the South and lived in DC when it was considered a Southern city.

 

Pat grew up in a different era, which I believe also contributes at least fifty percent to her ideas of decorum.  If you get a chance to read her book I recommend it. 

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Called Bravo derangement.

I know.  And I think the same thing about them too! 

[jumper sage]

6 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I apologize for giggling at this, it was serious enough to ward you off conception ever again.  But girl, this image is hilarious!!!  I also wanted you to know you had a sister in fear.  My mom, midwife and best friend were my wranglers and my deal was unless anesthesiology showed up with a generously filled  jumbo needle I wasn't doing shit! (verbatim quote).    Then:  back contractions.  Yadda yadda yadda, there's nothing wrong with only children lmao!

I had to have valium in the parking lot and then an IV throughout.  I was put in twilight sleep.  I think we both had a good buzz going.  I remember calling for my son's father's doctor to appear for he had a vasectomy years earlier and had passed all his post testing.  I was fricking livid.

[Bronzedog]

If I didn't watch this show I would never have known how much work it takes to be a southerner.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, jumper sage said:

I had to have valium in the parking lot and then an IV throughout.  I was put in twilight sleep.  I think we both had a good buzz going.  I remember calling for my son's father's doctor to appear for he had a vasectomy years earlier and had passed all his post testing.  I was fricking livid.

Lmaoooooo!!!! now this is a conversation I would’ve paid to observe.  A lady who shouldn’t be in labor but is on a scosh of prophynol?  The. Best.  

When they told me it was “too late” for the epidural to take effect?  Well.  {{smoothsskirt}} I’m told the candor that followed hastened the team’s efforts.  

Super envious of insta bonds.  All I could think (but didn’t say) was what are you crying for, I did the hard part.  They are irresistibly adorable though.  Still? #teamoneanddone

[biakbiak]

Oops

Edited July 24, 2018 by biakbiak