Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Triple P]

Thank you all for the info and explanations about Bible-based preaching in the context of the Duggar sons-in-law. It is helpful.

[queenanne]

7 hours ago, Marigold said:

I don't know if this is helpful or not but I will try

 All Christian based churches are Bible based but the phrase "Bible based preaching" is a particular style of preaching. It's very IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist)

The minister chooses a particular verse or few verses and they preach for almost an hour on that ONE verse. Anything to back up that verse includes more verses.  There is very little "opinion" or "topic drift".  Hence, the word "Fundamentalist" fits here because they stick very fundamentally to the Bible. 

In contrast, another church might choose more of a topic and work some verses into the topic. There is some room for personal interpretation, opinion or personal comment by the minister/priest. 

 

Is that helpful at all? 

So in other words, these preachers would go out of their way not to draw in authorities like/allusions to St. Thomas Aquinas, or Socrates, so on, and so forth? 

Personally I always found that a very boring meatless sermon that let my mind wander off into the stratosphere, because I (and many others, I suspect; but oddly enough, not the family members I went to church with), have long since gotten bored, because I can encompass and walk my way around the primary verse instantaneously, and often come up with the other supporting verses the preacher is likely to draw from in the bargain.  I like my sermons with surprising insights I haven't heard every day from age 6-26.

[Marigold]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:50 PM, queenanne said:

So in other words, these preachers would go out of their way not to draw in authorities like/allusions to St. Thomas Aquinas, or Socrates, so on, and so forth? 

Personally I always found that a very boring meatless sermon that let my mind wander off into the stratosphere, because I (and many others, I suspect; but oddly enough, not the family members I went to church with), have long since gotten bored, because I can encompass and walk my way around the primary verse instantaneously, and often come up with the other supporting verses the preacher is likely to draw from in the bargain.  I like my sermons with surprising insights I haven't heard every day from age 6-26.

None of the above men would EVER be discussed because they are simply humans.  Bible based preachers are there to discuss what GOD thinks as He wrote in the Bible. In fact, it is frowned upon to even bring up someone's theological opinion.  They are there to teach directly out of the Bible.   Not Thomas Aquinas or Socrates anyone other than the Bible. 

The nick name of Bible Thumpers or Bible Bangers came from this. ;)

[GeeGolly]

23 hours ago, Marigold said:

None of the above men would EVER be discussed because they are simply humans.  Bible based preachers are there to discuss what GOD thinks as He wrote in the Bible. In fact, it is frowned upon to even bring up someone's theological opinion.  They are there to teach directly out of the Bible.   Not Thomas Aquinas or Socrates anyone other than the Bible. 

The nick name of Bible Thumpers or Bible Bangers came from this. ;)

And for all these years I thought it was because they thumped or banged their Bible on the altar when exclaiming a point in their passionately spoken sermons.

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

And for all these years I thought it was because they thumped or banged their Bible on the altar when exclaiming a point in their passionately spoken sermons.

I’ve actually seen Fundy preachers do this.  Used to frighten me.

[Temperance]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

And for all these years I thought it was because they thumped or banged their Bible on the altar when exclaiming a point in their passionately spoken sermons.

Yes, according to the internet, that's where it comes from. Also what I thought too.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Temperance

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

Yes, according to the internet, that's where it comes from. Also what I thought too.

Maybe it caught on because that's the image most people got ? 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Seriously, smacking your Bible on the pulpit? I mean some of those guys looked like they were going to stroke out. Made me wonder what they might throw at the audience. Then, talking about how infallible the Word is. Why then, do that to a holy book? It seems irreverent.  I never saw an Episcopal or Roman Catholic priest do this.

[queenanne]

On 11/16/2017 at 4:38 PM, Marigold said:

None of the above men would EVER be discussed because they are simply humans.  Bible based preachers are there to discuss what GOD thinks as He wrote in the Bible. In fact, it is frowned upon to even bring up someone's theological opinion.  They are there to teach directly out of the Bible.   Not Thomas Aquinas or Socrates anyone other than the Bible. 

The nick name of Bible Thumpers or Bible Bangers came from this. ;)

What is the opinion then on preachers who use their own personal life stories to buttress these sermons?  I ask because that's usually the kind i have encountered in nondenominational "Bible-believing" churches.  Not just the "my salvation" type of stories... but stories about themselves (or, worse, their kids) as obnoxious rebellious "sin examples".  One minister metaphorically flogged his poor offspring as topics weekly. 

Also, it strikes me that the problem with the above "strict constructionist" method is, "teaching directly out of the Bible"'s success in practice, is limited to how smart the minister is vs. how dumb the congregants are."  Unless we get into the even thornier prospect of "God speaking directly through his human vessel the minister", which one would think, would occasionally be done in order not to bore the smarter of the congregants and send them running out the front door; and why this in fact doesn't happen, because God is omnipotent and must know the people who aren't actually getting anything out of the sermon week after week. 

Which is usually, in my experience, when sentient members of the congregation/sermons start getting the convenient speech about how faith involves turning your brain off.  I've actually criticized sermons characterized by all members of my churchgoing party as "so inspirational!", with "You kidding me?  You mean, that sermon that purported to speak positively about doubt, and then spent 92% of the sermon negatively telling doubters they're apostates; and then including one two-minute sop touching upon how doubt *can be* seen as a healthy positive thing in a Christian life; but now that we talk about it - "PSYCH!  Nah!  Just kidding!  Doubt for a Christian is always bad!" 

Response of those being blown up at, to me:

"I think you're giving too much thought to this." 

Edited November 18, 2017 by queenanne

[EAG46]

Wait a minute.   You mean you're not supposed to think about a sermon?  Or ask questions about the Bible?   Then what's the point?  

[queenanne]

10 minutes ago, EAG46 said:

Wait a minute.   You mean you're not supposed to think about a sermon?  Or ask questions about the Bible?   Then what's the point?  

Just let it wash over you and emotionalize its effects, I guess, like a warm comforting bath...?

[louannems]

2 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Seriously, smacking your Bible on the pulpit? I mean some of those guys looked like they were going to stroke out. Made me wonder what they might throw at the audience. Then, talking about how infallible the Word is. Why then, do that to a holy book? It seems irreverent.  I never saw an Episcopal or Roman Catholic priest do this.

Pissing Preacher Steve Anderson actually STANDS UP onto his pulpit and SCREAMS out his narrow definitions of the bible!

[LilJen]

1 hour ago, EAG46 said:

Wait a minute.   You mean you're not supposed to think about a sermon?  Or ask questions about the Bible?   Then what's the point?  

To rule the world as a "Christianized" robot.

[floridamom]

These 'preachers' shouldn't be handling the Word of God that they believe in so much with such disrespect. No one should ever throw, pound down, or hit the Bible with their fists. It seems to go against what they preach in the first place....'Respect God's Word'....isn't the Bible God's Word?

[Portia]

16 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Made me wonder what they might throw at the audience.

Kind of like this?  (From the great film Saved! ) 

[Portia]

I know we've had some form of  this discussion at least once before. While I am not a scriptural literalist like the Duggars,  I consider myself to have reverence for the Word of God,. However,  I don't consider any physical book to be some sort of relic or talisman that I must be fearful of disrepecting. Jesus' whole thing was that it's what's in your heart that matters.  Literal Bible thumping isn't my thing,  but I don't think it automatically belies a lack of respect for the Word.  I've been in churches where the Bible is kissed,  and honestly, THAT is what strikes me as very weird--but only because it's not what I'm used to.  Different strokes. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Portia

[heckkitty]

10 hours ago, Portia said:

Kind of like this?  (From the great film Saved! ) 

OMG i love that movie!

[latetotheparty]

3 hours ago, Portia said:

I know we've had some form of  this discussion at least once before. While I am not a scriptural literalist like the Duggars,  I consider myself to have reverence for the Word of God,. However,  I don't consider any physical book to be some sort of relic or talisman that I must be fearful of disrepecting. Jesus'whole thing was that it's what's in your heart that matters.  Literal Bible thumping isn't my thing,  but I don't think it automatically belies a lack of respect for the Word.  I've been in churches where the Bible is kissed,  and honestly, THAT is what strikes me as very weird--but only because it's not what I'm used to.  Different strokes. 

I get this. I have a lot of Episcopalian friends and the thing that always freaks me out is the Bible parade in the processional. Buth then I'm UCC, were a lot more low key. 

[EAG46]

Bible processional parade?  Sounds like they copied it from what we do on Saturday with the Torah.  Of course, a hand-written parchment scroll is  a lot more delicate than a book.   And when we read from it, and from other parts of the Scripture, we interpret it and discuss it.    I think if any Gothardite wandered into any Jewish house of worship, they wouldn't know what was going on.

[lookeyloo]

2 hours ago, EAG46 said:

Bible processional parade?  Sounds like they copied it from what we do on Saturday with the Torah.  Of course, a hand-written parchment scroll is  a lot more delicate than a book.   And when we read from it, and from other parts of the Scripture, we interpret it and discuss it.    I think if any Gothardite wandered into any Jewish house of worship, they wouldn't know what was going on.

Ha! Being Jewish I have had that thought a time or two!!  Questioning is the rule.  

[kokapetl]

Ned Flanders owns this:

Most of the bibles I’ve seen have been printed on phone book paper.

[charmed1]

I'm anticipating a lot of proselytizing and a stampede of ankle length denim skirts in my town, because the Museum of the Bible is open for business. That thing is huge. They better not try that tract for a tip shit here. Won't be pretty.

[riverblue22]

41 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

I'm anticipating a lot of proselytizing and a stampede of ankle length denim skirts in my town, because the Museum of the Bible is open for business. That thing is huge. They better not try that tract for a tip shit here. Won't be pretty.

The heavy advertising is driving me crazy!

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, charmed1 said:

I'm anticipating a lot of proselytizing and a stampede of ankle length denim skirts in my town, because the Museum of the Bible is open for business. That thing is huge. They better not try that tract for a tip shit here. Won't be pretty.

Did you see this William Saletan article about the museum?    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_messy_scripture_on_display_at_the_museum_of_the_bible.html

Apparently once Green was squeezed into hiring actual scholars and professional curators for his project, he was pushed off his original all-proselytizing plan. Seems that if the tract-bringers actually read the smaller-print signage inside (a doubtful "if," I realize), they may get a bit of an educational shock. .... I'm hoping that over time that'll dim the super-fundie enthusiasm for it. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Did you see this William Saletan article about the museum?    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_messy_scripture_on_display_at_the_museum_of_the_bible.html

Apparently once Green was squeezed into hiring actual scholars and professional curators for his project, he was pushed off his original all-proselytizing plan. Seems that if the tract-bringers actually read the smaller-print signage inside (a doubtful "if," I realize), they may get a bit of an educational shock. .... I'm hoping that over time that'll dim the super-fundie enthusiasm for it. 

Wowzers.

[Jynnan tonnix]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Did you see this William Saletan article about the museum?    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_messy_scripture_on_display_at_the_museum_of_the_bible.html

Apparently once Green was squeezed into hiring actual scholars and professional curators for his project, he was pushed off his original all-proselytizing plan. Seems that if the tract-bringers actually read the smaller-print signage inside (a doubtful "if," I realize), they may get a bit of an educational shock. .... I'm hoping that over time that'll dim the super-fundie enthusiasm for it. 

Interesting stuff! I'll have to delve into it a bit more in the morning when I'm a tad bit more awake and a tad less topped up with wine. I love this sort of thing!

[Arwen Evenstar]

I thought you all might enjoy this! Apparently, there are some evangelicals who support gay rights, including marriage equality and social justice.  As long as we only comment regarding how this relates to the Duggars and their POV., I’m pretty sure the mods will allow it.  It really spoke to “where” many Christians like myself are when it comes to dealing with un-Christian behavior of those who call themselves Christians.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/17/is-jen-hatmaker-the-conscious-of-evangelical-christianity-216068

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I thought you all might enjoy this! Apparently, there are some evangelicals who support gay rights, including marriage equality and social justice.  As long as we only comment regarding how this relates to the Duggars and their POV., I’m pretty sure the mods will allow it.  It really spoke to “where” many Christians like myself are when it comes to dealing with un-Christian behavior of those who call themselves Christians.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/17/is-jen-hatmaker-the-conscious-of-evangelical-christianity-216068

This is a true breath of fresh air. Not going into details on my response since I think most of us here are of similar mind, so just suffice it to say that I wish more of the Duggar ilk would develop enough critical thinking to see beyond black and white, Especially when their "white" (so to speak) is so tainted to begin with.

[Arwen Evenstar]

21 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

This is a true breath of fresh air. Not going into details on my response since I think most of us here are of similar mind, so just suffice it to say that I wish more of the Duggar ilk would develop enough critical thinking to see beyond black and white, Especially when their "white" (so to speak) is so tainted to begin with.

Exactly! Even if someone might believe for themselves that the LGBT lifestyle is a sinful one, there is a world of difference between simply having a personal belief AND

-letting this personal belief influence your vote if you are an elected official or judge, rather than purely legal or constitutional arguments.

-using those beliefs as justification to exclude, discriminate, bully, humiliate, cause bodily harm, financial loss, hiring/firing, refusing services to, etc.

-going on television or other public forum in an attempt to criminalize the behavior between consenting adults, while crying about government overreach elsewhere. Marriage equality is the law of the land. Get over it. 

-the very notion that religious freedom means the ability to take away rights from others that don’t share the same ideas or belief becomes fair game to perpetuate the litmus test for membership /advancement within a particular political party or its agenda.

Of course, this is all pie in the sky dreaming that mankind or womankind is capable of that level of decency, and we all know that those in power (regardless of affiliation) are hardly objective and care more about appeasing their donors than serving those they represent. Social justice only occurs when those who know it’s bullshit start fighting to be the voice of reason. Bear baiting finally became unacceptable once society decided they could no longer tolerate it. I guarantee our country would be a happier nation if we put many issues to a referendum like they do in Scandinavia. 

[MunichNark]

Just checking in to wish you all a lovely happy Christmas. Life has been somewhat stressful these past few weeks, hopefully it will become easier for 2018.

Continued love and hugs to those battling with personal issues, be they health or otherwise.

 

Edit, ooops, I'm on my laptop and got caught up on the wrong thread..

Edited December 19, 2017 by MunichNark

[Arwen Evenstar]

6 hours ago, MunichNark said:

 

Edit, ooops, I'm on my laptop and got caught up on the wrong thread..

Welcome back, MN!  Missed your posts so glad to hear from you.

[riverblue22]

Here is an interesting article about how Evangelical Christianity is damaging Christianity in general in this country, and turning people away from religion:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/12/19/white-christianity-is-in-big-trouble-and-its-its-own-biggest-threat/?hpid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-posteverything%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.9d9c9ac0d576

[cmr2014]

i wonder sometimes if any of the Duggar spawn will end up in a cult (a different cult). They are all really emotionally damaged and desperately in need of affection and affirmation. They are, in many ways, the prototypes for the International students that Derick is supposed to be targeting for Cross Church. Here's a list of factors that may make people susceptible to cults that I found in a paper on PubMed:

These variables include

(a) generalized ego-weakness and emotional vulnerability,

    God, yes

(b) propensities toward dissociative states,

    Derick yes, I don't know about any of the others

(c) tenuous, deteriorated, or nonexistent family relations and support systems,

    I would say yes to this, too. They just don't seem to have any real familial bond

(d) inadequate means of dealing with exigencies of survival,

    They have no means of dealing with any aspect of life

(e) history of severe child abuse or neglect,

    God, yes

(f) exposure to idiosyncratic or eccentric family patterns,

    God, yes

(g) proclivities toward or abuse of controlled substances,

    Not, that I know if

(h) unmanageable and debilitating situational stress and crises,

     Not that i know of -- unless you count falling shower rods

(i) intolerable socioeconomic conditions.

    They don't seem to have financial issues now, but all of the older kids have dealt with food scarcity, and the young ones may learn about it as more and more babies appear and the TLC checks keep getting smaller

All-in-all, I think they're all vulnerable and if they weren't being swarmed by accountabilibuddies all the time, they'd be ripe for the picking.

[Marigold]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:04 PM, GeeGolly said:

And for all these years I thought it was because they thumped or banged their Bible on the altar when exclaiming a point in their passionately spoken sermons.

gee Golly, I missed this.

 

yes, it's from banging their Bibles on the pulpit.  But preaching hard from ONLY the Bible is why they are banging it to begin with. 

Picture:

THE BIBLE SAYS_____!!!!!  (bangs Bible for dramatic effect) 

 

No one yells...  "Francis of Assisi said____" and then bangs the Bible.  It doesn't flow.  :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

I hope this is the right place to post this, but Change.org sent me a petition regarding getting the attention of the Jamaican government to bar Pissing Preacher from entering the country due to his anti ?️‍? LGBT  rhetoric that LGBT people should be stoned to death. 

https://www.change.org/p/government-of-jamaica-stop-american-hate-preacher-from-entering-jamaica

He'salready banned from entering the UK, Botswana, and at least half a dozen other countries, and identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group. They make it easy to sign it ,and if you so choose, post to your Facebook friends or email your friends or copy the link.  Do we really want the good people of Jamaica to see the horror that is the Pissing Preacher banging two bolts together?  That spectacle of utter lunacy alone should be enough for anyone to take pity on any country he tries to visit.

This guy takes a few verses on homosexuality and makes it his life’s work to be a bully, not realizing or caring that “God don’t like ugly”.   He’s probably happy that he’s getting this sort of attention, thinking it justifies his behavior.  

This makes Derick beating up on Jazz and his lunatic ravings over cake even more odious.

[Pollypam]

A Heathen Catholic went to the Creation Museum and wrote about it. I, of course, needed to share it here!

 

https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2018/01/30/creationism-isnt-about-science-its-about-theology-and-its-really-bad

[Barb23]

I'm in Maryland & on few occasions have seen the Creation Museum advertised on TV. Thought this was weird considering they are in Kentucky.  Anyone else see the commercial?  

[Marigold]

Some (closed) page that I'm on has three (out of thousands) of Bill Gothard defenders.  They claim the suit was dropped and the accusers were found out to be liars. 

There were ONLY THREE defenders and they got torn to shreds by other evangelical/conservative Christians.  Some were ATI graduates too etc. 

A lot of people speculated that Josh had negative things happen to him and he acted out.  (I don't want to write out that speculation because that's a big allegation). 

[TresGatos]

So...I was visiting the Judge Judy forum and it seems the young lady who sued Vision Forum because Doug Phillips perved all over her when she was his children;s nanny was on Judge Judy suing a guy she loaned $9,000 to. She said the settlement was confidential but intrepid JJ watchers sussed it out. The settlemant was enough so that she could buy a house and a car and loan $9,000 to a deadbeat loser.

Quote

 

2 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Torres is very attractive, a college student, and suing an ex-boyfriend for return of a $9,000 loan.  JJ asks where a college student gets $9,000 and Torres responds that it was a settlement, from a lawsuit, and that she can't say what the suit was about because of a confidentiality agreement.  My mind goes right to "Which married public figure were you having an affair with?"  The ex-boyfriend says he's not bound by a confidentiality agreement and he knows what the suit was about, but JJ makes the "zip it" motion and he shuts up.  Dammit.  The settlement was enough for her to pay cash for a house, and loan the BF $9K to pay off his credit cards.

 

Quote

 

Could this be the lawsuit? Right area of the country. The second link has a picture of her.

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/04/17/doug-phillips-vs-lourdes-torres-manteufel-lawsuit-informational-resource-page/

https://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/lourdes-torres-manteufel-sues-douglas.html

 

Quote

Phillips was also founder of the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival and of the National Center for Family-Integrated Churches. According to the teachings of the patriarchy movement, also known as the stay-at-home daughters or quiverfull movement, young women remain at home under the protection of their fathers. They’re generally expected not to work outside their home or go to college, and they’re taught to abide by strict gender roles in which men have authority over women.

[Lunera]

I wasn't sure where to post this. Apparently Bill Gothard showed up at the Big Sandy conference and was charged with trespassing.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2018/04/29/bill-gothard-went-down-to-texas/

[Sew Sumi]

The guy who runs that site is a HUGE Gothard apologist. I remember his epic defenses on Recovering Grace. 

eta: Read through the account as well as the comments. Alfred sure made a lot of assumptions given that he didn't appear to have attended the conference himself. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Nysha]

Quote

At the end of the evening Mr. Bates approached Bill and told him to go to the administration building where they would have their chat, overtly refusing much nearer venues.  Others around Bill urged him not to leave the public area, cautioning him that it was a trap.  Gil Bates told them, “We love Bill, we are not going to hurt him”.  Bill agreed to go, as this was the chat he had been promised before leaving.  He told his young man, “They finally will talk to me, what I have waited four years for”.  

1

Regardless of the view of the site, it still appears that the Board lied to Bill and they lied to the people supporting him at Big Sandy. The board hid their dirty work behind the bushes because they were too cowardly to stand up for their position and have Bill removed from the premises in front of his supporters. I think Bill Gothard is a piece of hypocritical scum, but I think the IBLP board members are cut from the same damn cloth.

[Sew Sumi]

Levudusky, Paine, and Bates are specifically named because they were the three who were most instrumental in having Gothard ousted. 

Agree that they are just as bad as Gothard. They essentially saw a chink in Gothard's armor and staged a coup. 

[GeeGolly]

Gothard is broke, living off SSI and donations of others, drove 14 hours with some dude and paid hundreds of dollars to go to Big Sandy.

And then hundreds of followers lined up to get a glimpse of a man they worship who's been accused of molesting young girls.

A fake Alert boy sets him up while a cop hides as his chest camera is running.

This sounds like a mix of Stephen King and VC Andrews, with a touch of a Lifetime Movie.

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Levudusky, Paine, and Bates are specifically named because they were the three who were most instrumental in having Gothard ousted. 

Agree that they are just as bad as Gothard. They essentially saw a chink in Gothard's armor and staged a coup. 

I thought he was ousted, because women and girls accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior. That seems like a fine reason to oust Gothard. I believe these allegations. There are too many of them to be completely false. How is that a chink in the armor?

[riverblue22]

DRAMA!!!!!

[Sew Sumi]

8 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I thought he was ousted, because women and girls accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior. That seems like a fine reason to oust Gothard. I believe these allegations. There are too many of them to be completely false. How is that a chink in the armor?

He was untouchable before the first lawsuit. Hence, the opportunity to seize the reins. They are still following Gothard's teachings, just sweeping the charismatic former leader under the rug. 

I've never been fooled by Gil Bates' hokey shtick. He's a power-hungry wolf in sheep's clothing.

[EAG46]

This was in yesterday's Washington Post, and I hope everyone can read it.  A very good and detailed article on sexual abuse in evangelical churches, the denial from those churches, and the repercussions that denial has.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/31/feature/the-epidemic-of-denial-about-sexual-abuse-in-the-evangelical-church/?utm_term=.e44f6e8658f7     Yes the Duggars and the Gothards are mentioned.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, EAG46 said:

This was in yesterday's Washington Post, and I hope everyone can read it.  A very good and detailed article on sexual abuse in evangelical churches, the denial from those churches, and the repercussions that denial has.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/31/feature/the-epidemic-of-denial-about-sexual-abuse-in-the-evangelical-church/?utm_term=.e44f6e8658f7     Yes the Duggars and the Gothards are mentioned.

That was an interesting read.  I am not surprised to find out that sexual abuse in evangelical churches is under reported.  I wish that the author would have gone further though.   There was nothing mentioning how patriarchal these institutions are.  When they believe a woman causes a man to sin, it's no wonder sexual abuse is swept under the rug.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Ohiopirate02

[Nysha]

Thank you for posting the article. My family went through a church molestation and how it was handled is one of the reasons I will never go to church again.