S10.E08: A Frittered Friendship

[HunterHunted]

10 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Hmmm, junk food?  Even if she didn't cook, there are veggies and healthy foods to microwave.  I'm surprised.

She's been pretty honest since she joined the show that she eats like a stoned 15 year old boy. Her diet is remarkably similar to the President's.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Even if she didn't cook, there are veggies and healthy foods to microwave.  I'm surprised.

I'm not sure if she even uses the microwave!  Back when she was talking to someone about remodeling her kitchen, she said that she wanted desk space in order to write.  IIRC, she said she didn't cook.  I was under the impression that a kitchen was a waste of space to her.   To each his own!

[SweetieDarling]

2 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

I  saw tjmaxx or some other stickers on the bottom as she was handling them. I don't think a designer is responsible for her Christmas displays too many things clumped together not in porportion. Like a giant reindeer with a tiny  Santa. Good for her love of  making it nice , I used to decorate the Hell out of my home too!  

Do people really hire designers to do their Christmas decorations? I mean, I know she's got boatloads more money than I will ever have, and goes all out for Christmas, but she seems to enjoy it so much, and take pride in it, I just assumed she did it all herself (over a weekend dedicated to schlepping it all out, but still...).  Maybe I'm just poor and sheltered; the thought of having someone else do my Christmas decorations never occurred to me. 

 

I FLOVE snow globes, and would have been right beside Ramona making them all "snow", but hold them by the base! Don't get your grubby fingerprints all over them!

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

She's been pretty honest since she joined the show that she eats like a stoned 15 year old boy. Her diet is remarkably similar to the President's.

Why? what does he eat? 

Bill Clinton used to "jog" to his local McDonalds all the time. Is it like that?

Edited May 26, 2018 by SweetieDarling

[Gem 10]

25 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Do people really hire designers to do their Christmas decorations? I mean, I know she's got boatloads more money than I will ever have, and goes all out for Christmas, but she seems to enjoy it so much, and take pride in it, I just assumed she did it all herself (over a weekend dedicated to schlepping it all out, but still...).  Maybe I'm just poor and sheltered; the thought of having someone else do my Christmas decorations never occurred to me. 

 

I FLOVE snow globes, and would have been right beside Ramona making them all "snow", but hold them by the base! Don't get your grubby fingerprints all over them!

Why? what does he eat? 

Bill Clinton used to "jog" to his local McDonalds all the time. Is it like that?

There are people to do everything .. Put lights on your house, decorate in the house, buy and ser up your Christmas tree, etc etc..  We know she has money, but when she picked up the pastries at the store, she asked for a discount.  The guy gave her 10 % off and she was thrilled.  These kind of people often stiff waiters and waitresses.  Did you see the cheap presents they give each other?  All stupid gag gifts.  A Trump Chia Pet.  Carole just HAD to get that in there.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, SweetieDarling said:

Do people really hire designers to do their Christmas decorations? I mean, I know she's got boatloads more money than I will ever have, and goes all out for Christmas, but she seems to enjoy it so much, and take pride in it, I just assumed she did it all herself (over a weekend dedicated to schlepping it all out, but still...).  Maybe I'm just poor and sheltered; the thought of having someone else do my Christmas decorations never occurred to me. 

Yes. People do hire. I believe that Bethenny hired a decorator when she had that holiday party with the ice luge and Josh Capon catering.

Quote

Why? what does he eat? 

Bill Clinton used to "jog" to his local McDonalds all the time. Is it like that?

 

Chips, McDonald's, and 12 Diet Cokes a day.

Donald Trump doesn't even entertain the thought of "jogging" anywhere.

https://www.eater.com/2017/12/28/16797530/donald-trump-president-what-he-ate-2017

Edited May 26, 2018 by HunterHunted

[HadleyFields]

I was really looking forward to the Murder Mystery Dinner and was so confused and disappointed by the abrupt ending. I think it was taking a lot longer than they expected and production coaxed Dorinda into ending it and get the ball rolling on "the confrontation."  It is interesting to see a shift in the friendship pairings: Sonja and Bethenny?! No one wants to hang out with either one of them anymore so they have nowhere else to turn! Ha-ha! 

[amypdx]

On 5/23/2018 at 7:42 PM, AnnA said:

No one will ever convince me that the back and forth between Bethenny and Carole was real.    It was totally staged and probably scripted as well.  

 

ETA:   I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion but I can't help believing it.   It was so fake.

It sounds like back then they were trying to work out their differences but then Carole saw Bethany’s insulting THs as the season has progressed and that was the nail in the coffin of the friendship. I like them butte equally but I did think that was uncalled for by Bethany - her insecurities showing  

[FozzyBear]

11 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201803/how-spot-sociopath-in-3-steps

 

This is Bethany to a tee just from watching her on this show yes she can do nice things but there is always that undercurrent of whats really going on and the need to CONTROL everything

To be fair this describes most of the real housewives 

[KungFuBunny]

12 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

In all fairness to Ramona I believe she was handling them at the base and not touching the actual globe itself.  (At least that's what I remember)  And I have the same habitat of when I see snow globes to immediately pick each one up and create a snow storm. 

 

That scene cracked me up. The only thing that would have been better is if Ramona got into her yellow bikini, confiscated clear slippers - and she started doing barbell like squats with the snow globes.

Or she could have started dancing with them

 

[BodhiGurl]

19 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

That scene cracked me up. The only thing that would have been better is if Ramona got into her yellow bikini, confiscated clear slippers - and she started doing barbell like squats with the snow globes.

Or she could have started dancing with them

 

ha ha ha - classic Ramona... that yellow bikini was priceless :)

[DelicateDee]

14 hours ago, Higgins said:

Bethenny knew he was close to his family. AT first that was attractive to her. Now she wants to keep her daughter from loving family. She is a menace.

Yeah, at FIRST his family seemed normal and close, but as time went on, we saw how possessive they really were.  To press for weekend visits EVERY weekend when they lived a 2 hour drive away and B wanted to just be with her husband & daughter some weekends and also to just chill at home as she was working crazy hours at that time.   Then, if B & Jason didnt feel like driving to his parents home, the parents wanted come to B & J's place, not ever considering their need to bond with each other as a family.  No, Jason's parents (and Jason also) were very inconsiderate of B's time with her husband and daughter.  On this issue, Beth was right. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I like when Ramona tells the murder mystery cast that her feathers are free-range, they tell her that she’s ahead of her time. 

[ryebread]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

She's been pretty honest since she joined the show that she eats like a stoned 15 year old boy. Her diet is remarkably similar to the President's.

Her diet is remarkably similar to 89% of the population of the United States.

Adam is so passionate about food, veganism, farm to table. 

Carole is so... not.

I knew that relationship was doomed from the beginning just based on that alone. 

IMO, his food is beautiful and I would love having a partner who chef-ed up dishes for me like that on the daily.

That said, I think he's a ninny.

[hoodooznoodooz]

The only reason “fritter” is in the episode title is because Beth was fixated on them and it sounds similar to “fracture”?

eta: Thanks, @HunterHunted!

Edited May 26, 2018 by hoodooznoodooz

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

The only reason “fritter” is in the episode title is because Beth was fixated on them and it sounds similar to “fracture”?

I am glad you explained it as I thought Bethenny prattling on and on about fritters was really bad acting or a very good example of why mommies should not dip into their children's ADD medicine.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I rewatched the preview. Beth yells, “How old are you? I know you wanna be 45, but don’t act seven! Ridiculous.”

It does look like she is saying it to Carole, because you hear Beth yelling as they show Carole reacting and saying, “Oh, my god.”

[HunterHunted]

31 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

The only reason “fritter” is in the episode title is because Beth was fixated on them and it sounds similar to “fracture”?

Fritter as a verb means to waste or throw away with some emphasis placed on something being stupidly wasted. For example, you might say someone frittered away their fortune if they spent it all buying Happy Meals just to get the toys.*

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fritter

*I actually know someone who blew thousands of dollars doing this in the 90s trying to get the Beanie Babies that came with the Happy Meals.

[Rosiejuliemom]

27 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Fritter as a verb means to waste or throw away with some emphasis placed on something being stupidly wasted. For example, you might say someone frittered away their fortune if they spent it all buying Happy Meals just to get the toys.*

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fritter

*I actually know someone who blew thousands of dollars doing this in the 90s trying to get the Beanie Babies that came with the Happy Meals.

I wonder if it was the same person who threw a drink at my head when I told him we didn't have the one he wanted at the moment?

[HunterHunted]

13 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I wonder if it was the same person who threw a drink at my head when I told him we didn't have the one he wanted at the moment?

Probably not. The person I knew was a woman and a vegan with dubious ethics (she used her own money and conned men out of their money, by claiming fake diseases, to buy Happy Meals for the Beanie Babies--remember I said she was a vegan). I also don't think she'd be dumb and rude enough to throw a drink at someone's head. 

That's horrible. I can believe someone did that to you because people are terrible, but it sucks that someone did. I'm sorry.

[Rosiejuliemom]

40 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Probably not. The person I knew was a woman and a vegan with dubious ethics (she used her own money and conned men out of their money, by claiming fake diseases, to buy Happy Meals for the Beanie Babies--remember I said she was a vegan). I also don't think she'd be dumb and rude enough to throw a drink at someone's head. 

That's horrible. I can believe someone did that to you because people are terrible, but it sucks that someone did. I'm sorry.

Thanks for that. It was almost 20 years ago, so I'm not really bothered anymore. Looking back, it was honestly more bizarre than anything else. I was 16, hadn't been working there long, and it was my first real job outside of babysitting. I just wish I had been able to give him the what for instead of bursting into tears. That was a little embarrassing.

[film noire]

6 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

 

 

Whenever I see her dancing in that clip, I always think of the demented chick in the Men Without Hats video (Ramona invented the Unsafety Dance!)

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by film noire

[Higgins]

8 hours ago, DelicateDee said:

Yeah, at FIRST his family seemed normal and close, but as time went on, we saw how possessive they really were.  To press for weekend visits EVERY weekend when they lived a 2 hour drive away and B wanted to just be with her husband & daughter some weekends and also to just chill at home as she was working crazy hours at that time.   Then, if B & Jason didnt feel like driving to his parents home, the parents wanted come to B & J's place, not ever considering their need to bond with each other as a family.  No, Jason's parents (and Jason also) were very inconsiderate of B's time with her husband and daughter.  On this issue, Beth was right. 

That would be good for Bryn. How else would she see normal family dynamics?

[SuprSuprElevated]

8 hours ago, ryebread said:

IMO, his food is beautiful and I would love having a partner who chef-ed up dishes for me like that on the daily.

^Totally!

[ryebread]

6 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

Thanks for that. It was almost 20 years ago, so I'm not really bothered anymore. Looking back, it was honestly more bizarre than anything else. I was 16, hadn't been working there long, and it was my first real job outside of babysitting. I just wish I had been able to give him the what for instead of bursting into tears. That was a little embarrassing.

When I read your post I laughed because the scenario is just so ridiculous. But I"m sure as a teenager, it was humiliating and awful. When I think of that person doing that to 16 year old you, I feel very angry.  I hope your manager or even another customer, stepped up. 

5 hours ago, film noire said:

 

Whenever I see her dancing in that clip, I always think of the demented chick in the Men Without Hats video (Ramona invented the Unsafety Dance!)

 

My god, this is funny, FN.  I will never unsee that and it is wonderful. 

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, DelicateDee said:

Yeah, at FIRST his family seemed normal and close, but as time went on, we saw how possessive they really were.

IMO, it still doesn't excuse her rude remarks about them in the early days of their relationship.  She has always had, and will always have biting remarks about everyone she knows.  We see it in her THs.  Some thoughts don't need to be expressed. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:44 PM, WireWrap said:

Just like Bethenny saying/claiming "she" didn't call/text Adam, even though she told Dorinda that SHE emailed him, the bottom line is that someone called Adam on Bethenny's authority to do HER a favor. Bethenny tried to play her word game, "I never said THAT" even when that is EXACTLY what she meant with the words she did use. 

 

I went to the DVR last Ep, Bethenny said and I quote : “*I* asked Adam to be part of this whole journey as a photographer. *I* emailed him when we were going to Houston and *I* said are you available to come on a mission. “ then it’s  back to rapid fire bitching about his nerve wanting compensation . This is to D in the restaurant. 

The hilarious part is the first sentence is fast rat a tat tat to Dorinda and the second sentence is NO eye contact slower looking at the table searching for her words searchingly for the right semantics to back out of because she KNOWS what a liar she is.

I FLOVE Carole calling her out and the liar that she is. Bethenny is getting sloppy with her lies. She never ever fooled me. She is who she always was, an exaggerator, a child raised with priveledge that she denies for attention, a snake, damaged, and a hustler with no integrity . Still however a fan of the red dress in the Jill breakup scene and the people who were helped in PR. YMMV. 

[RealitytvLover]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:47 AM, zoeysmom said:

Sonja's Kitty has happy new home:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/unleashed/we-talked-to-owner-of-sonja-morgans-cat

Quote

" Sonja Morgan is one of my best friends, and she is looking to get rid of her cat,’” 

Ugh, she makes me so sick. I'm pretty sure she used those exact words "get rid".

This just made me go grab and cuddle my catbaby even though I was just annoyed he woke me up early as hell on a Saturday. ? 

[Ki-in]

Carole started her blog about having a problem with Bethenny contacting Adam behind her back. If Bethenny (or her people) wasn't supposed to contact Adam without going through Carole then why did she have his number/e-mail to begin with?

[BodhiGurl]

10 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I rewatched the preview. Beth yells, “How old are you? I know you wanna be 45, but don’t act seven! Ridiculous.”

It does look like she is saying it to Carole, because you hear Beth yelling as they show Carole reacting and saying, “Oh, my god.”

That's what I got but I maintain it really makes no sense and isn't really an insult to a 54 year old - to say they want to be 45. The only person I could think that would be a true dig at would be Ramona - adding in I know the RH shows like to edit previews so folks think one way and then when the show airs, see it was something completely different. If that was a dig at Carole - Bethenny should have said 25 or 35 to be a dig.... because it's kind of true... LOL ;) 

[Mozelle]

On 5/24/2018 at 9:43 PM, AnnA said:

I never said a gift is not a gift and I never said there was or should be  any expectation of "payback."   

And if you really think Carole and Adam paid their share of those three vacations with Bethenny and Dennis, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. 

I still need help understanding how Carole wouldn’t be able to afford a trip to Ibiza or St. Barth’s or Maldives or wherever without the benevolence of Bethenny. Even though Carole isn’t making millions from a Skinny Girl type business, she isn’t poor. Jeez!

If all Carole were making was $300K per season for this show (I actually don’t know what her contract is but I’m just guessing that on the low end for this specific franchise and how long she’s been on the show) that’s not nowhere near small change. It certainly isn’t anything that would be prohibitive for vacationing nicely. It isn’t an amount where Carole couldn’t get her tail on a plane to get to these locations. Unless y’all are talking about flying some sort of private jet, and even then it’s a jet that she wouldn’t ordinarily have access to. The other stuff—vacation homes, dining, entertainment—isn’t anything that Carole would need Bethenny for. 

[KungFuBunny]

9 hours ago, film noire said:

 

Whenever I see her dancing in that clip, I always think of the demented chick in the Men Without Hats video (Ramona invented the Unsafety Dance!)

 

Loike a foine woine she gets better with toime

Ramona's dancing reminds me of a classier Slam Dance - and I love her for it!

[missyb]

A little something about paid vacation from the rich and famous who invite their friends. The private jet is gong anyway. You offer to pay a portion and it is politely denied. Business expense. So, to makeup for the largess of the host, you end up paying for everything else. Meals out, hostess gift, thank you dinner when you get home. No free rides ! LOL.

[ryebread]

28 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

I still need help understanding how Carole wouldn’t be able to afford a trip to Ibiza or St. Barth’s or Maldives or wherever without the benevolence of Bethenny. Even though Carole isn’t making millions from a Skinny Girl type business, she isn’t poor. Jeez!

If all Carole were making was $300K per season for this show (I actually don’t know what her contract is but I’m just guessing that on the low end for this specific franchise and how long she’s been on the show) that’s not nowhere near small change. It certainly isn’t anything that would be prohibitive for vacationing nicely. It isn’t an amount where Carole couldn’t get her tail on a plane to get to these locations. Unless y’all are talking about flying some sort of private jet, and even then it’s a jet that she wouldn’t ordinarily have access to. The other stuff—vacation homes, dining, entertainment—isn’t anything that Carole would need Bethenny for. 

I agree that Carole should be able to afford her own vacations.  But it would be my greatest joy to be able to call my bestie, even if said bestie had a couple mill hanging around the bank herself, and say, "Pack a bag, sunshine.  We're going to Bali.  My treat!" 

I think that might be Bethenny's way of expressing friendship/affection for someone.  I don't think she has much else in her arsenal in terms of showing affection to anyone. Unless you're named Cookie or Peanut.  

[sasha206]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:52 AM, SheTalksShit said:

I think Ramona explained it best on a recent WWHL (question and answer starts at 3:42):

In so many words, Ramona basically said that Carol eventually started to find Bethenny exhausting, decided all the walking on eggshells wasn't worth it.  I get that same vibe. Plus, I trust Ramona's take on things like this bc, for all that she is, she is smart and perceptive, or, as another poster put it, she's "surprisingly astute." I agree. 

 

Ramona looked incredible on WWHL.  Love her hair that way.  Much better.

[ivygirl]

53 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Loike a foine woine she gets better with toime

Ramona's dancing reminds me of a classier Slam Dance - and I love her for it!

I know Ramona can be terrible and self centered, but there’s something about her weirdness that I find endearing. I also admire how she weathered her divorce (at least from what I’ve seen). It’s far more recent than Sonja’s, and yet we barely ever hear her talk about it. 

[IslandGirl]

On 5/23/2018 at 8:07 PM, missy jo said:

Why is Bethenny such a delicate flower all of a sudden? Why doesn't she just tell Carole what her problem is? 

 

On 5/23/2018 at 8:34 PM, Misslindsey said:

I am with you. I honestly think that this whole fight between Carole and Bethenny is making a big deal out of very little. I did not think either Bethenny and Carole were mad at each other. They knew their relationship was off, but that can happen with friendships, especially since they both seem to be doing different things. I did not think Bethenny was talking shit about Carole to Dorinda in the last episode. She mentioned what happened with Adam and calling Adam an opportunist. I believe Bethenny said she told Carole the opportunist part already and said she knew she probably should have not said it. The whole thing seems like unnecessary drama that probably could have been avoided if they spoke one on one. I am one of the few Bethenny fans, so I am probably biased. Bethenny says the things that I am thinking in most episodes.

I think the real root of Bethenny's problem with Carol is Tinsley. Bethenny does not really like or respect Tinsley (sure, she appreciated her generous Puerto Rico donation, but treats her poorly in general), & I think Bethenny has lost respect for Carole being so close to "someone like Tinsley", not to mention possibly a touch of jealousy. I don't loathe Bethenny or anything like that, but I've seen her take a pretty immediate dislike of cheery, blonde WASPy types many times before...

[Reality police]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:08 PM, coops said:

I loved Dorinda's "rules" she listed at dinner. You tell 'em, Doris. Rifling through your wardrobe, smashing fixtures and fittings and bossing your little maid about, urgh, these women. So lovably vulgar and so satisfying when they get out in their place.

And boy did Bethenny get put in her place by Carole. I hate it in arguments when people try and nitpick with irrelevant facts and that seems to be Bethenny's 'defense' conflict. Bamboozle them with pointless corrections so they look wrong/ get off topic. That's not going to work with Carole, honey. I think Ramona hit the nail on the head, Bethenny has found her match in Carole, her usual tactics won't work against her.

Bethenny vs Ramona: Bethenny will win everytime because she has a wide range of unpleasant to downright disgusting behaviour from Ramona to use as ammo.

Bethenny vs Luanne: Bethenny will win everytime by picking apart Luanne's infamously false persona. She's no classy countess and is just as down and dirty as the rest of the women.

Bethenny vs Sonja: Sonja is no fighter can't verbalize herself at the best of times. No surprise when Bethenny reduced her to tears in the whole Tipsy Girl saga.

Bethenny vs Kelly: Ahhh a throwback from the good old days. Kelly was not on the same planet as everyone else and could easily be crushed by anyone. Stood no chance against Bethenny.

Bethenny has actually been pretty lucky in that most of her opponents are either delusional or disgraceful and so it has been easy for her to dismantle them when they go toe to toe with her. Carole doesn't have a laundry list of awful behavior, can't be sidetracked or bamboozled easily and doesn't put on false airs and graces that are easy to call her out on. You need to up your game Skinny Girl.  

You must "hate" it here then. Isn't that what most of these eleven pages has been about? 

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, ivygirl said:

I know Ramona can be terrible and self centered, but there’s something about her weirdness that I find endearing. I also admire how she weathered her divorce (at least from what I’ve seen). It’s far more recent than Sonja’s, and yet we barely ever hear her talk about it. 

I agree.  I don't know why, but I do love her!  My favorite season of Ramona was when Aviva called her white trash.  Her and Sonja were hoots that season!

 

http://www.bravotv.com/video/share/19248743

[Rap541]

Quote

I still need help understanding how Carole wouldn’t be able to afford a trip to Ibiza or St. Barth’s or Maldives or wherever without the benevolence of Bethenny. Even though Carole isn’t making millions from a Skinny Girl type business, she isn’t poor. Jeez!

Then she shouldn't accept expensive gifts from people she's not sleeping with. She's not dating Bethenny and she theoretically can afford to pay her way so why isn't she? Accepting once is ok, but two or three times with no reciprocation? I admit, I'm not such a decent giving person that I wouldn't be a little annoyed with a pal who doesn't pay their way - and I have paid for friends to go on trips and after the second or third its broadly hinted that their reason for not going was that they needed someone to pick up the tab, I've made the judgement call to say "well, maybe next year". 

My point? It's not impossible for someone to take advantage of generosity. If Carole can easily afford trips to Ibiza, St. Barth's or the Maldvies, then why is she letting Bethenny pay?

Lest anyone throw Bethenny staying with Jill in the Hamptons up - I'm actually pretty sure when that happened that Bethenny really couldn't afford summer in the Hamptons at a place as nice as Jill's, and I am absolutely certain that Jill used that gift to insist Bethenny was obligated to be under her thumb and under her control. Even in this thread people are citing this as Bethenny's hypocrisy all while also noting "a gift is a gift" - so if a gift is a gift, then Jill had no right once the gift was given, to expect anything from Bethenny. 

Mind you, I do see the hypocrisy but I'm just pointing out - When Jill did it to Bethenny - Bethenny was wrong to not be submissive to Jill and to always remember her financial obligation to be loyal to Jill always. When Bethenny theoretically does the same to Carole, why, look! Bethenny is so very wrong, a gift is a gift and Carole is under no obligation to do anything but say thank you. 

Gift giving, especially big gift giving, does have strings attached. I'm willing to be honest, some reciprocation is usually understood, if not in kind, then in obligation. It's one of those unspoken things. 

[sasha206]

30 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Then she shouldn't accept expensive gifts from people she's not sleeping with. She's not dating Bethenny and she theoretically can afford to pay her way so why isn't she? Accepting once is ok, but two or three times with no reciprocation? I admit, I'm not such a decent giving person that I wouldn't be a little annoyed with a pal who doesn't pay their way - and I have paid for friends to go on trips and after the second or third its broadly hinted that their reason for not going was that they needed someone to pick up the tab, I've made the judgement call to say "well, maybe next year". 

My point? It's not impossible for someone to take advantage of generosity. If Carole can easily afford trips to Ibiza, St. Barth's or the Maldvies, then why is she letting Bethenny pay?

Lest anyone throw Bethenny staying with Jill in the Hamptons up - I'm actually pretty sure when that happened that Bethenny really couldn't afford summer in the Hamptons at a place as nice as Jill's, and I am absolutely certain that Jill used that gift to insist Bethenny was obligated to be under her thumb and under her control. Even in this thread people are citing this as Bethenny's hypocrisy all while also noting "a gift is a gift" - so if a gift is a gift, then Jill had no right once the gift was given, to expect anything from Bethenny. 

Mind you, I do see the hypocrisy but I'm just pointing out - When Jill did it to Bethenny - Bethenny was wrong to not be submissive to Jill and to always remember her financial obligation to be loyal to Jill always. When Bethenny theoretically does the same to Carole, why, look! Bethenny is so very wrong, a gift is a gift and Carole is under no obligation to do anything but say thank you. 

Gift giving, especially big gift giving, does have strings attached. I'm willing to be honest, some reciprocation is usually understood, if not in kind, then in obligation. It's one of those unspoken things. 

I'm Team Carole, mostly because I find Beth to be so arrogant, so mean-spirited, so toxic (although I don't believe she was ever at fault for Drunk Dorinda so I try to be objective).  And my initial reaction was Adam is not under any obligation to cancel paying gigs for one of Beth's charitable function especially if he's not in the same wealthy stratosphere as Beth.  However, I do understand the point.  If I did a lot of things for my friend financially and then asked for help and was rejected, I'd be irritated too and it would probably damage my friendship.

However, I wonder how these trips were presented to Adam via Carole? Or Beth?  I mean, maybe he didn't realize just how much Beth was buying?  Maybe he initially resisted the overtures for vacations because of finances but was assured it wasn't going to be a problem through Carole?  Or through Beth?  It's possible he was coerced into going because two wealthy women convinced him that freeloading off them was okay?

I do think the Beth/Carole divide goes beyond this single event.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, Mozelle said:

I still need help understanding how Carole wouldn’t be able to afford a trip to Ibiza or St. Barth’s or Maldives or wherever without the benevolence of Bethenny. Even though Carole isn’t making millions from a Skinny Girl type business, she isn’t poor. Jeez!

If all Carole were making was $300K per season for this show (I actually don’t know what her contract is but I’m just guessing that on the low end for this specific franchise and how long she’s been on the show) that’s not nowhere near small change. It certainly isn’t anything that would be prohibitive for vacationing nicely. It isn’t an amount where Carole couldn’t get her tail on a plane to get to these locations. Unless y’all are talking about flying some sort of private jet, and even then it’s a jet that she wouldn’t ordinarily have access to. The other stuff—vacation homes, dining, entertainment—isn’t anything that Carole would need Bethenny for. 

It is not a question if Carole has $20,000.00 in the bank to spend on a great vacation, it is about how she chooses to  spend her money.  Regardless of one's financial situation, we have all turned down, or not even shown interest in something we can afford.  It would be like someone saying at a benefit dinner, "here let me buy you some raffle tickets," it is not that one  can't afford the $100.00, it may be it is not a priority in how they want to spend their money.  Adam is also a factor.  They may have an agreement where Carole does not pick up Adam's expenses.

The proposition that Dennis had already paid for the private jet and residence so it wasn't a big expenditure doesn't work for me.  Carole and Adam went in lieu of another couple maybe even a cost sharing couple.  Or even if it is a tax write off-they still spent the money.   

Years ago my husband, who is not really a football fan was given Superbowl tickets and a spot on the private jet from a vintner.  The most I had ever seen my husband spend on the Superbowl was a $10 bet.  It is not that we can't afford the trip it is just not a priority.  Carole makes a decent salary, but I maintain, Dennis and Bethenny probably do have to treat people to vacation with them because they are both so full of themselves.   Me personally, I don't see the upside of sexy salad boy and having him as part of a vacation.

[Rap541]

Quote

Carole makes a decent salary, but I maintain, Dennis and Bethenny probably do have to treat people to vacation with them because they are both so full of themselves. 

Doesn't that make it worse? Carole has the money but doesn't like to spend her money that way so she only goes when someone offers to pay her way?

That Dennis and Bethenny are full of themselves doesn't mean Carole isn't taking advantage of their generosity.

[SuprSuprElevated]

48 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 Me personally, I don't see the upside of sexy salad boy

I do.  

Plus he cooks?  Yes please.

Edited May 26, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[CharlizeCat]

I am kind of late weighing in, but just got around to watching the show last night.

I am not aware of what type of "client" gig that Adam had that precluded him from fulfilling Bethenney's request. I am guessing it was some type of either cooking or photography job. In either case, you don't "ask" your client to reschedule their dinner party, wedding, or whatever the occasion was to accommodate another person's last-minute request. (Since it is unclear how far in advance Bethenney asked Adam, or who, indeed, actually made the contact.) I am sure that Bethenney could have (and obviously) did find a replacement who was probably able to accommodate her and was happy for the exposure (no pun intended.) I don't really care about those details, what I came here to state is that as a person who occasionally does freelance work, you never jack one client around for another. Period. It doesn't matter what the backstory is. The only acceptable reason is a dire emergency. Once a freelancer (regardless of the industry) gets a reputation of cancellations, blowing off one job for another, etc., it negatively affects their reputation, and thus, their income. It doesn't matter if Bethenney was generous enough to treat Adam to three vacations or if Adam is a secret trust fund baby who could really afford to lose income on both ends -- from the cancelled client and Bethenney not paying him for his time and work.   You don't treat clients that way. If you have clients who turn out to be a PITAs, you politely dismiss them after the work is completed and the check has cleared.

As our attorney poster (I apologize for not knowing everybody's name yet) pointed out, just flying off to Houston for half a day or so, really isn't just that. It's not a short flight from New York to Houston and during that time period, who knew how travel conditions might be getting to and from there. A half-day could have stretched into a full day or longer. As well, there is the time and energy exerted in having to pack, check and claim gear and equipment, not to mention doing the actual work, which I imagine would have been challenging at best, given the conditions. So even if Adam is a spry young stud in his 30s, a trip like that is exhausting and it probably would have made him tired and less productive when he returned to work immediately after the trip to Houston.

So STFU Bethenney! I agree that at the crux of her axe to grind with Carole is Carole's relationship with Tinsley. I believe that Carole's initial intention was to take the new girl under her wing and commonalities, time spent together, etc., might have forged a stronger bond than what was anticipated. Anyway, B bitch is jelly and that is that. And ... until this week, I wasn't even liking Carole that much this season.

Dorinda could have saved herself a lot of money by just bargaining the price of a bottle of Dom and cutting straight to the chase. I imagine that the cost of hiring the party and putting together the menu and costuming could have been about right in cost trade-off. And I felt really gypped. I thought we'd see the full episode devoted to the game, which would have been fun and interesting. Instead, it was drinks, drinks, and more drinks, a few greasy appetizers, then hasty wrap-up to get to the main event -- Bethenney vs. Carole. Doris was just jonesing to get the drinks flowing again. 

Sonja is just plain gross and nasty, especially during the conversation with her facialist.* BTW, how does she have the money to have an in-home facial once a week? I would prefer the sanitary conditions of going to an actual spa. Was she planning to bang one of the guys in the murder mystery cast? I really don't take issue with her re-homing her pets.  If she really takes as many international trips as she claims, the pets probably spend most of the time with pet-sitters or being boarded. At least she personally selected their new owners as opposed to just dumping them at a shelter. Not that there is anything wrong at all at taking pets to a shelter because I know the people who work and volunteer at shelters work very hard to make sure that pets get matched up with the best homes/owners possible. What I really take exception to is dying the fur of that other poor dog. WTF? I certainly hope whoever does that is using vegetable-based or other non-chemical non-toxic dye. Poor thing. 

*I honestly believe that talk like that is just that. Talk and just another delusion Sonja has about herself and her sexuality/desirability quotient. 

TEAM CAROLE! 

Edited May 26, 2018 by CharlizeCat

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Doesn't that make it worse? Carole has the money but doesn't like to spend her money that way so she only goes when someone offers to pay her way?

That Dennis and Bethenny are full of themselves doesn't mean Carole isn't taking advantage of their generosity.

Taking advantage? Unless she is twisting their arm making them pay how is she taking advantage? They weren’t held at gunpoint and made to offer the vacation. They could have said yes we are going well see you when we get back not come with us we will pay. I’m sorry where is the proof that the only time she ever goes on a vacation is when someone else pays?  And who cares if that is true she’s not forcing anyone to pay for her. The attacking of Carol  by people and defending of Bethenny with the overwhelming evidence of Bethennys nastiness and vindictiveness when she feels she has somehow been wronged for whatever slight reason  I just find astounding lol and I don’t even really like Carole in the cast 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Keywestclubkid

[Rap541]

Hey, I've already publically stated I think gift giving and gift receiving has some obligation of reciprocation that is being ignored. If the only correct answer is "Bethenny gave a gift and Carole has no obligation except to say thank you" then I expect the arguing that Bethenny was a shit to not run and be at Bobby's bedside at his first diagnosis because she was given a gift of a vacation and was therefore morally obligated to repay it, to stop. If a gift is a gift, and the receiver has no obligation other than thanks, then that needs to apply to everyone and not just Carole. 

To the point above - If Carole had the money for the trips and wanted to go, why would she put herself in the position of obligation to Bethenny if she didn't need to? The argument is that if Carole wanted to go to Ibiza or St. Barths, or the Maldives, that she is wealthy and didn't need Bethenny to pay for her. Ok. But again, it's usually understood that gifts, especially large gifts, tend to be reciprocated. Three trips is a lot for Carole to accept with a "thanks" and nothing else. But I am fine with the correct being "a gift is a gift and all you need to do is thank the giver" as long as it applies to everyone, and currently it doesn't. 

[Keywestclubkid]

7 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

. 

To the point above - If Carole had the money for the trips and wanted to go, why would she put herself in the position of obligation to Bethenny if she didn't need to? The argument is that if Carole wanted to go to Ibiza or St. Barths, or the Maldives, that she is wealthy and didn't need Bethenny to pay for her. Ok. But again, it's usually understood that gifts, especially large gifts, tend to be reciprocated. Three trips is a lot for Carole to accept with a "thanks" and nothing else. But I am fine with the correct being "a gift is a gift and all you need to do is thank the giver" as long as it applies to everyone, and currently it doesn't. 

I’m sorry what? When something is offered by a friend has a gift unless otherwise stipulated should In no way have an obligation of some kind of return that’s not how gifts and friendship works you don’t offer something to expect something back. That’s a loan not a gift. No matter if you have a billion dollars or ten dollars. And at the time Carole thought they were friends and I’m assuming (cause I wasn’t there) that’s why she accepted it not thinking their would be strings attached 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Keywestclubkid

[Rap541]

Yeah, and I freely admit I am not as decent as those of you who give freely to the same people who never ever reciprocate. Gift giving and gift receiving involves some obligation to me. I'm willing to admit, if I give gifts to a friend who I know isn't totally poor, and I don't receive anything in return ever after multiple gifts, I start to wonder if we're friends or if I am being taken advantage of. 

I don't think I am unusual in this but again, I just may not be as morally decent as those of you insisting a gift never means any obligation. 

I trust you believe Jill deeply wronged Bethenny by insisting that her gift of a summer in the Hamptoons obligated Bethenny to her?

[Keywestclubkid]

13 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

 If the only correct answer is "Bethenny gave a gift and Carole has no obligation except to say thank you" then I expect the arguing that Bethenny was a shit to not run and be at Bobby's bedside at his first diagnosis because she was given a gift of a vacation and was therefore morally obligated to repay it, to stop. If

What? No Bethenny should have been a decent human being gift or not and went to his bedside because she has history with this man a long history she was friends with him and his wife. That’s what someone does weather they are still close or not. not because they gifted her anything that is two totally separate things. 

[missyb]

Hmmm, my husband and I were the recipients of a very expensive trip . We could afford to pay ourselves but not in the style our host wanted us to have.   And , we can never reciprocate the trip on an equitable level. He arranged everything and never let us go into our pockets. Even if we wanted to, he he had already talked to the hotels we were staying at with instructions not to let us pay.  It was almost embarrassing. In preparation for the trip, we went shopping and brought several lovely gifts with special meaning. 

The night we spent at his home, his joy and pleasure at the gifts we had brought was so sincere. 

So, maybe Adam cooks or caters some meals for BF and Dennis as his gift. Maybe Carole buy BF something she knows will; have a special meaning to her. I can tell you with a certain about of certainty, there was some reciprocation. Maybe not at the same level as the gift , and maybe not enough for the host but that is another issue.

Edited May 27, 2018 by missyb