S02.E04: The Riddle Of The Sphinx

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Is this now? If you're looking forward, you're looking in the wrong direction.

 

[Ottis]

That was a drag until the final 15 minutes, with William and his dad and the scene after. And now we know who the other control mind was for. 

What happened to the other unformed robot bee in the bunker? Weren’t there still two when Elsie arrived? 

Elsie said “What the hell is that” or “What the fuck is that” three times in the first 7 minutes in the bunker. Sloppy. Then MIB said it in town.

Now I have to think about those last 15 minutes or so. Still rooting for the humans. 

[AimingforYoko]

Whoever guessed that the lady in Colonial India last week was William's daughter, Kudos. I do like that stuff like that has clues laid down and isn't pulled from the writers' asses. 

WTF is going on with Bernard? And is Elsie back only in the short term?

[Primetimer]

Get some Delos family values on repeat in our latest EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

[mac123x]

Elsie!  I may or may not have squeed when she showed up, though her absence from the furthest-forward timeline is troubling.  I hope she's off on a side quest and not dead.

 

Delos is going for functional immortality was a popular theory.  Looks like they still have work to do, so I wonder what Ford wanted with that human-brainbox he had Bernard get.  Presumably it's for himself, but William/MIB's experiments were decidedly short term.  I guess omniscient / omnipotent Ford has solved the longevity problem, so we'll see another actor portraying Ford in a hosts' body by the end of the season.

 

Tiger hunting lady was MIB's daughter, again pretty predicable.

 

More fake-out endings than Return of the King, but I'm not complaining.  It wasn't until the show passed the 60 minute mark that I even realized we hadn't seen Dolores or Maeve and that I didn't care.  First episode of the season that I want to rewatch.

[The Companion]

I really liked this episode, even though we didn't get any follow-up with the Team Maeve cliffhanger. Loved that the MIB is trying to make amends and even more that he got called out for it. I enjoyed the reveal that they are trying to make human/hosts. The Bernard time jump scenes were a little creepy. Poor confused Bernard. I was also really excited to see Elsie back. 

[Jocaro74]

Thought this was one of the best episodes. Always a fan of Ed Harris, but this is first episode I thought he should get nominated for this role. 

[Ellaria]

6 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Delos is going for functional immortality was a popular theory.  Looks like they still have work to do, so I wonder what Ford wanted with that human-brainbox he had Bernard get.  Presumably it's for himself, but William/MIB's experiments were decidedly short term.  I guess omniscient / omnipotent Ford has solved the longevity problem, so we'll see another actor portraying Ford in a hosts' body by the end of the season.

Can someone please refresh my memory? When did Ford have Bernard get a human-brainbox?

Makes sense that we are not technically done with Ford yet.

Great episode! Ed Harris is beyond awesome. Glad he finally got a chance to shine.

Poor Bernard. This isn’t getting better for him.

[TobinAlbers]

Still processing, but if William is to be believed Logan's dead. Darn it I wanted him to have a role in the end game!

Well now we know Stubbs Hemsworth was captured but let go. Not clear on the timeline with Elsie. Bernard knocks her out and chains her at the bunker, wipes it out and takes the new build, but leaves her there. Ford ensured she was rescued by having a host, in this case Clementine, bring Bernard to her but because his mind is all jacked up his memory fragments lead him back to the bunker instead of them just moving on. Is that right? 

William leaving Delos' 149th iteration to deteriorate and rot was damn cold. Then again he may still at that point hold the belief that ultimately the hosts even with a human mind isn't a person. 

MiB cheering Wyatt on for her double cross however was cute. Teddy spared Craddock for William to step up to take him down. Ford moving the needle via Teddy or are these decisions and actions actual independent action?

Ford once again pops up to tweak William with MiB obviously thinking 'Fuck you, Robert' even as he does a double look back at the messenger as the words seem to hit home.

Emily is definitely her father's daughter. Observant, calculating, never missing an opportunity, and pretty ballsy. Had to chuckle with her saying she's not a people person (paraphrasing) which leaves her to really immerse herself in her surroundings.

[mac123x]

When MIB said to Cylon!James "some men are better off dead," in the foreground of the shot was an hourglass, and the sands had completely run out.  I see what you did there, Show.

Just now, Ellaria Sand said:

Can someone please refresh my memory? When did Ford have Bernard get a human-brainbox?

One of Bernard's non-linear memories shown tonight was him going to that facility and getting a red globe (the human-compatible brain thingy).  He exposited over the flashback that it was the reason Ford had sent him there, to get one of those (and presumably to remove all the witnesses).

[clack]

It's taken until ep.4 of the 2nd season, but all those hours of set-up are finally paying off with powerful, unpredictable drama. I'm still not hugely invested in the characters, but with situations as tense and surprising as we're now getting, that is not a fatal flaw.

[dgpolo]

22 minutes ago, Ottis said:

That was a drag until the final 15 minutes, with William and his dad and the scene after.

Father-in-law.

Motto for WW?

"If you can't tell, does it matter?"

[Dev F]

3 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Can someone please refresh my memory? When did Ford have Bernard get a human-brainbox?

I don't think we know yet. Presumably we're supposed to wonder which of the previously human characters will turn out to be an android replacement. My early money is on Ford himself.

I enjoyed this episode more than last week's. I like it better when the episodes focus on exploring the characters instead of bombarding us with one baffling incident after another. I also enjoy the in-park narrative moments better when they feel like there's some actual craftsmanship behind them, instead of just hosts milling around with guns repeating filler dialogue. I liked that the MiB seemed to realize that Ford had designed the encounter with Lawrence's family specifically to tweak his anxieties about the loss of his own family, and that he had to play along to get to the next stage of the quest. Though clearly there's some larger plan beyond that; I hope it ends up being credible, and not just "Oh, Ford somehow knew that William's daughter would follow the exact sequence of events necessary to meet up with her father at that moment." (I suppose she could end up being the human Bernard was tasked with replicating!)

[formerlyfreedom]

9 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Still processing, but if William is to be believed Logan's dead. Darn it I wanted him to have a role in the end game!

I'm not taking him at his word for this. I NEED to see old Logan. Pretty please?

[WatchrTina]

26 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Whoever guessed that the lady in Colonial India last week was William's daughter, Kudos.

Ditto.  I loved that I theory when I first heard it on last week's board and I loved having it confirmed.

I'm enjoying this but I'm still really confused.  Functional immortality huh?  Well I suppose that was an inevitable goal.  So I guess it's a race now -- functional immortality for human minds vs. sentience for manufactured minds.

Regarding all that nitroglycerin-related drama -- was anyone else thinking of the 1953 film "The Wages of Fear"?  I saw that over 30 years ago and quite frankly that was enough nitroglycerin-related anxiety for a lifetime.

[Ellaria]

37 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Still processing, but if William is to be believed Logan's dead. Darn it I wanted him to have a role in the end game!

Well now we know Stubbs Hemsworth was captured but let go. Not clear on the timeline with Elsie. Bernard knocks her out and chains her at the bunker, wipes it out and takes the new build, but leaves her there. Ford ensured she was rescued by having a host, in this case Clementine, bring Bernard to her but because his mind is all jacked up his memory fragments lead him back to the bunker instead of them just moving on. Is that right? 

I, too, am disappointed that Logan is gone. 

Thanks for the attempt at clarification of Bernard’s actions. I try to determine Bernard’s movements by his clothes. Bernard at the bunker had a blue shirt so that was before Ford’s murder and the massacre. I think that’s right.

35 minutes ago, mac123x said:

One of Bernard's non-linear memories shown tonight was him going to that facility and getting a red globe (the human-compatible brain thingy).  He exposited over the flashback that it was the reason Ford had sent him there, to get one of those (and presumably to remove all the witnesses).

Thank you. I wasn’t sure what the red globe thingy was.

28 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I don't think we know yet. Presumably we're supposed to wonder which of the previously human characters will turn out to be an android replacement. My early money is on Ford himself.

I agree. Ford’s hands are all over these events.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[Pallas]

The riddle of the Sphinx indeed.  (What has four legs/two legs/three legs = a human, at birth, maturity and old age, with a cane.) Oedipus the brilliant foundling solved it and saved Thebes. Having already unknowingly killed his father, and before unknowingly marrying his mother. 

Oedipus was fated to kill his father, as if programmed to do so. At least two father-killers already, in Dolores and William. Both seemed to know exactly what they were doing, though. Or thought they did. Ford is Fate.  

Such a rich episode. Between Simpson and Harris, the perfect mirroring of that taunting, jaded compassion each time Devos began to devolve. Bernard's fractured memories and his seeming to pledge to the awakened Host fraternity with the sacred words. The flashback to Juliet's death just before William commits his first good deed in 40 years. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pallas

[The Companion]

29 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

 

MiB cheering Wyatt on for her double cross however was cute. Teddy spared Craddock for William to step up to take him down. Ford moving the needle via Teddy or are these decisions and actions actual independent action?

That was really funny. She may be lucky that William took out someone with a good reason to hold a grudge.

[TobinAlbers]

Upon further though, man, Delos literally put himself in a hell of his own making complete with fire and brimstone upon termination.

And it looks like William played him. Sure he was dying anyway and decided why the hell not roll the dice with a mind download into a host. But he missed years with his wife who died from a stroke leaving his daughter to bury her alone. His daughter killed herself. His son overdosed. Whatever CylonDelos was, it experienced anguish in learning that news.  And in the meantime William ran the company and kept him a locked lab rat. The technology for a human mind/host wasn't nearly as close to viable for Delos to enjoy its benefits with the people that mattered, but in his arrogance and desperation he allowed himself to believe he could and/or convinced himself that if he couldn't it still would be worth it. He gambled that William would see it through to the end and/or there would be family to keep the project going but once Juliet was gone, William could finally end the charade and leave Delos to rot.

Did chuckle that he calls for Logan, who he treated like crap, expecting him to come swooping in to rescue him when he was supplanted as son and heir by William. To be sure CylonDelos' mind was deteriorating but it was interesting what it was reaching out to for help. 

Hope Bernard and Elsie packed some cerebral fluid and a syringe to go. Otherwise they better make quick tracks back to HQ.

[Cthulhudrew]

I thought it was very interesting that the technician on duty at the time of the 149th iteration of Delos noted that "he was stable!" Suggested to me that that version was actually functioning fine, and that Delos Corporation had perfected the technology, but that William at this point had decided he didn't want people to be able to live forever (due to Julia's suicide and his realization of his own failings) and that he went there to torment his father-in-law.

I wonder where in the timeline that fits- obviously James Delos host killed that same technician at some point, so presumably the flashback happened near to the end of last season, but it isn't clear. 

Didn't see the "William's daughter" reveal until the moment she started riding up towards them (and somehow missed the theories on it), but I'm curious. Given her comments to Stubbs, and her introduction last week, she seems to be a woman who is more at home among artificial reality than the real world. Did William drag her off on his Westworld trips, and she ended up being disconnected from actual human contact? There is certainly a morality play to be explored there with parallels to our real world and social media/digital connections, if so.

[Pallas]

16 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

once Juliet was gone, William could finally end the charade and leave Delos to rot.

But Juliet was gone, I thought, while William was still Young enough to be played by Jimmi Simpson. William did keep trying (for whatever reason) up to 149 iterations, at least some of which must have come in the decades between the actors' swapping out. 

Or did I mishear what William said about Juliet after telling Devos about his wife's death by stroke? 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pallas

[nilyank]

4 minutes ago, Pallas said:

But Juliet was gone while William was still Young enough to be played by Jimmi Simpson. William did keep trying (for whatever reason) up to 149 iterations, at least some of which must have come in the decades between the actors' swapping out. 

I also thought I saw affection from William for Delos when he kept breaking down. There was no need to keep trying to bring back Delos. I am sure they could have moved onto other humans to replicate .

I do love the interactions between William and Lawrence.

Edited May 14, 2018 by nilyank

[Dev F]

10 minutes ago, Pallas said:

But Juliet was gone while William was still Young enough to be played by Jimmi Simpson. William did keep trying (for whatever reason) up to 149 iterations, at least some of which must have come in the decades between the actors' swapping out. 

No, the MiB said last season that Juliet died a year previous, and "thirty years of marriage vanished." I assumed the last visit with Delos was shortly after her death.

[LittleIggy]

Who was the woman who could speak Lakota, the one who escaped? That was Hansee who let the rest of the captives go and whispered to the other Hemsworth bro, wasn’t it?

Edited May 14, 2018 by LittleIggy

[LittleIggy]

No Delores! ?

Braddock blowed up good! He blowed up real good! ????

[Pallas]

7 hours ago, Dev F said:

MiB said last season that Juliet died a year previous, and "thirty years of marriage vanished." I assumed the last visit with Delos was shortly after her death.

Thank you! Yet William stopped working on/visiting his father-in-bot for some decades while Juliet was still alive, then: Devos didn't recognize the Ed Harris version, who he suggested looked worse for wear. 

[TobinAlbers]

23 minutes ago, Pallas said:

But Juliet was gone, I thought, while William was still Young enough to be played by Jimmi Simpson. William did keep trying (for whatever reason) up to 149 iterations, at least some of which must have come in the decades between the actors' swapping out. 

Or did I mishear what William said about Juliet after telling Devos about his wife's death by stroke? 

 

11 minutes ago, Dev F said:

No, the MiB said last season that Juliet died a year previous, and "thirty years of marriage vanished." I assumed the last visit with Delos was shortly after her death.

Yeah, that's what I believed as well. MiB said last season that his wife died recently which is why I think William could then finally cease with trying to make Delos 2.0 happen as there wasn't anyone left that he was beholden to. It seems like Emily may have been told he was dead so she'd have no expectation of his return. 

Also I think initially William kept trying truly to see if it could happen. If will and mental fortitude are somehow involved in making the leap happen, one might think Delos had it in him except that his mind kept plateauing. They were making progress but it was taking decades to the point that his old monitor had been replaced and his wife and kids were dead.  Now there is the question if William's presence or the emotional content of the conversation triggered Delos149 flaming out as the monitor insisted he was stable. Could be emotional triggers are a factor.

As for William having some sentiment towards Delos, he said to him something very similar to what Delores told Craddock last week- not all of us are meant for glory/the next world.  He seemed less sympathetic and more pitying judge and jury and angry executioner. He was cutting Delos loose and it seemed meting out some vengeance and anger. Knowingly and casually dropping an emotional powder keg (your wife is dead, your children dead, we've brought you back 149 times and we're not doing it 150) on a being not equipped to handle it and then leaving it to suffer the meltdown you know is coming rather than be merciful and put it out of its misery is sadistic. Right in MiB's wheelhouse. He was letting his true face show.  Telling the tech to not terminate under the pretense of studying the deterioration for use later was a lie as he told Delos that wasn't happening. William wasn't interested in pursuing it anymore - but that doesn't mean Ford wasn't or hadn't been monitoring Delos or had cracked the issue and just hadn't told anyone else.

[SourK]

Oh, man. I'm so confused this season. I came here to read the recap just to understand what's going on (and FWIW, I agree with the recap that it makes no sense to burn the whole room that the Delos host is in -- even if you want to destroy the evidence that he existed, why not keep the other stuff?)

I feel like somebody on this show now has to be one of the hybrid host-humans, with the three most obvious candidates being Ford, William, and Bernard. Trying to sort out the timeline in my mind to figure out if any of those possibilities has been ruled out already made me stressed. I could see it being Bernard because he's displaying some of the same symptoms as the Delos host did, and because I'm getting the idea that this season is about his journey like last season was about Delores. I could see it being Ford because the timing seems to line up best if it is. I could see it being William because he was the one overseeing the project and, after he decided some men are better off dead, maybe he killed himself and accepted 30 days to be a real part of Westworld as a host and play the maze. I could also see all of those being totally wrong.

51 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I thought it was very interesting that the technician on duty at the time of the 149th iteration of Delos noted that "he was stable!" Suggested to me that that version was actually functioning fine, and that Delos Corporation had perfected the technology, but that William at this point had decided he didn't want people to be able to live forever (due to Julia's suicide and his realization of his own failings) and that he went there to torment his father-in-law.

What it made me think of was how Ford said last season that he tried to keep Bernard and Delores apart because seeing each other again would trigger them or something. Maybe seeing somebody he actually knew is what triggered Delos.

[For Cereals]

Abernathy?  They were looking for him...

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Braddock blowed up good! He blowed up real good! ????

Sidebar: Big Jim McBob and Billy Sol Hurok from Farm Film Report would be proud.
End Sidebar

[numbnut]

56 minutes ago, SourK said:

Oh, man. I'm so confused this season. I came here to read the recap just to understand what's going on (and FWIW, I agree with the recap that it makes no sense to burn the whole room that the Delos host is in -- even if you want to destroy the evidence that he existed, why not keep the other stuff?)

I feel like somebody on this show now has to be one of the hybrid host-humans, with the three most obvious candidates being Ford, William, and Bernard.

All that West Elm furniture. What a waste.

I'm guessing we'll see Ford as a hybrid young man. (Perhaps that's why the MiB shouldn't look forward.)

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Who was the woman who could speak Lakota, the one who escaped? That was Hansee who let the rest of the captives go and whispered to the other Hemsworth bro, wasn’t it?

Yup, that was Emily (and I think she was talking to Tantoo Cardinal). I also thought that was Hansee whispering to Stubbs.

This ep was tedious for the most part. They milk every moment so you can see big reveals coming from a mile away. 

William's arc still makes no sense to me. He wanted to die in S1 but couldn't kill himself? He regrets his wife's suicide so he saves Lawrence's wife even though he was happy to kill Lawrence's wife in S1?

Edited May 14, 2018 by numbnut

[DarkRaichu]

So William was trying to build a fresh host and infuse 60(or whatever Delos' age) years of memory into it.  On the other hand, Ford was building a bunch of hosts that retain supposedly wiped memories from the past 35 years.  I do not think it is a coincidence Ford created a replica of his childhood (complete with home and family).  I would not be surprised if Ford is grooming / creating a replica host of himself complete with his memories from the past 30 years or so.  That way this new host of his would be ready to accept his most recent memory dump.
 

6 hours ago, SourK said:

I feel like somebody on this show now has to be one of the hybrid host-humans, with the three most obvious candidates being Ford, William, and Bernard.

I think William's daughter is going to be a surprise hybrid revealed at the end of season.  But she is not going to be the only one.  Per the above, Ford will be 1.  And William might be 1 too, he just does not realize it and Ford is guiding him to this realization via the "game".  Come to think of it, that memory core Bernard took could be William's (he came to WW often enough).  Meaning MiB had been a host hybrid since he woke up the day after Ford was shot.

 

Speaking of predictions (or was it a leak???), someone mentioned last week that Ghost nation was (re)programmed to protect guests.  That is true too since Stubbs said they were keeping guests alive while killing other hosts.    

I love how Jimmy Simpson had a bit of white hair the 2nd time we saw him visit Delos Sr

Also, we got to see the couple from season 1 who vacationed for the first time at WW.  Last time, the husband got his picture taken with a corpse of outlaw he killed.  They were captured by GN along with Emily :P

I have a bad feeling about Elsie, just because Bernard said "everything is fine" right after he remembered he killed the techs.

 

6 hours ago, SourK said:

even if you want to destroy the evidence that he existed, why not keep the other stuff?)

They could replicate a near human Delos 149 times, a bunch of furniture in a room is simple in comparison.

One questions, the bodies used to build railroad were hosts right? Otherwise it would be a very weak railroad :P

Edited May 14, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[tpplay]

I too found this episode beyond tedious.  It is reminding me more and more of "Lost" where one question piled onto another and no answers were forthcoming.  I really dislike the constant  - "let's spend five minutes just being cruel and gross for no reason at all except to be cruel and gross" - stuff.  I loved this show so much last season.  I'm teetering on the edge of giving up.  All the sense it doesn't make - I fear it's never going to make.  But I'm sure there will be lots more cruelty and grossness.  BLECH.

[QuantumMechanic]

People here have said “Hansee” is the person who whispered “you do not end until you are forgotten” (or whatever the phrase was) to Stubbs and then had him let go.

But who is Hansee? That’s not ringing any bells with me.

[tennisgurl]

Ed Harris and Jimmy Simpson are both so freaking good. Definitely an Emmy reel episode for the actors. 

Good call to everyone saying that the hunter woman was Williams daughter. She certainly takes after dad, she is very observant and clearly pays a lot of attention to the greater narrative, and not just the cheap sex and violence that a lot of guests seem to like. She seems to be too savvy to be interested in just base stuff like that. 

Hi Elise! I was wondering what happened to her. Poor Bernard, he is just having the worst kind of time. And everyone he meets wants to kick his ass, despite him being one of the least dickish people around!

It seems like the real end game here in immortality, and all of this is some kind of test run, which certainly makes sense. As profitable as Westworld certainly is, its pretty ridiculous that people are just using this amazing technology to engage in super fancy LARPing and thats it. 

So for all the money and power that Delos had, in the end, he fell victim to his own hubris and greed. He might end up living longer, in a way, but he is trapped in the same day, over and over, with his family all dead, with nothing left but going through the motions of humanity. How very appropriate of a Greek Tragedy. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Regardless of MIB's motives, I loved Lawrence getting to blow up Craddock.

[Dev F]

3 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

People here have said “Hansee” is the person who whispered “you do not end until you are forgotten” (or whatever the phrase was) to Stubbs and then had him let go.

But who is Hansee? That’s not ringing any bells with me.

It's the name of the character Zahn McClarnon played on the TV series Fargo. That was a breakout role for him, and he's not otherwise that well known, so people often refer to him as Hanzee instead of by his real name.

In any event, McClarnon played the Native American host who was involved in the pitch to Logan in episode 2, so what people are wondering is whether the Ghost Nation leader in this episode is the same host. I believe in fact it is.

[Michichick]

5 hours ago, numbnut said:

Yup, that was Emily (and I think she was talking to Tantoo Cardinal). I also thought that was Hansee whispering to Stubbs.

Who is Emily? I thought the character who was hunting in “India” was named Grace.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

In any event, McClarnon played the Native American host who was involved in the pitch to Logan in episode 2, so what people are wondering is whether the Ghost Nation leader in this episode is the same host. I believe in fact it is.

I believe it is, too. I think that we have confirmation that Ghost Nation protects humans in the park who may be in trouble...and that has been going on for awhile.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It seems like the real end game here in immortality, and all of this is some kind of test run, which certainly makes sense. As profitable as Westworld certainly is, its pretty ridiculous that people are just using this amazing technology to engage in super fancy LARPing and thats it. 

So for all the money and power that Delos had, in the end, he fell victim to his own hubris and greed. He might end up living longer, in a way, but he is trapped in the same day, over and over, with his family all dead, with nothing left but going through the motions of humanity. How very appropriate of a Greek Tragedy. 

Agree that Delos was the test subject for technology gone too far but I think that the end game is over, at least for William. Whether there are others within Delos Corporation that want to continue that work remains to be seen. I’m interested in learning who knows what.

With the Delos human/host hybrid experiment being housed in Westworld, I think it is safe to assume the Ford knew it was going on. 

We know that they did work that was beneficial - eradicating disease - and, presumably, that is continuing. 

[DarkRaichu]

13 minutes ago, Michichick said:

Who is Emily? I thought the character who was hunting in “India” was named Grace.

William's daughter's name is Emily.  Since Grace called MiB dad at the end of episode, Emily = Grace

[Haleth]

Wow!  It's starting to make sense!  (Yes,  kudos to viewers who said the park's real purpose was human eternal life and that the tiger lady was William's daughter.)  Ok, now I'm convinced the host being made secretly in Ford's bunker in season 1 is his new body and the control marble that Bernard stole is the brain for it.  Ford was attempting to trick the Sphinx by making the answer to the riddle incorrect.  He might have failed with Jimbot, but he was successful with Bernard (more or less taking over Arnold's life).

7 hours ago, Pallas said:

So William stopped working on/visiting his father-in-bot for some decades while Juliet was still alive.

I'm not sure.  It sounded like William had to visit each Jimbot in order to go through the protocol.  149 times over the 30 years.

9 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Still processing, but if William is to be believed Logan's dead

He never specifically said Logan was dead, only that he had overdosed a long time ago.  I think they are leaving it open.  Hey, what if there is a Loganbot somewhere?  Maybe that's who the other one is that Bernard alluded to?  (I still think it's Ford.)

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

(I suppose she could end up being the human Bernard was tasked with replicating!)

Noooooo!  (I'm sure it will be Ford himself.)

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

In any event, McClarnon played the Native American host who was involved in the pitch to Logan in episode 2, so what people are wondering is whether the Ghost Nation leader in this episode is the same host. I believe in fact it is.

Ah, thanks.  With all the face paint I never would have recognized him.

[Coxfires]

I liked it far better than last week, but I can't really tell why, strangely. Maybe because I loved how the transition of Jimi Simpson into Ed Harris was done? Because it was a nice change from Dolores who kinda irritated me last time? Maybe because I finally see the point of Westworld and why it was built? Last year, even if I enjoyed the show, part of me was still thinking that it was much a do about nothing, or rather, a highly high tech amusement park only loaded people could afford. I didn't put too much thinking into it initially, but now it finally makes sense, the search for immortality. 

On a side note: Elsie is back, loved seeing her again!

Edited May 14, 2018 by Coxfires

[benteen]

Great episode.  It took me a while to get into it but I was hooked, particularly with the various William and Delos scenes.  Very engaging stuff and I liked how they set up Emily's introduction last week into this one.  I certainly didn't miss Dolores this week (or Maeve for that matter).

Edited May 14, 2018 by benteen

[CofCinci]

It was interesting to see William change from someone who showed genuine regard for his father-in-law to being able to torture the 149th version of the man. 

[WatchrTina]

9 hours ago, Pallas said:

Bernard's fractured memories and his seeming to pledge to the awakened Host fraternity with the sacred words.

Wait what?  I am intrigued by this statement but I don't understand it.  Please elaborate. What sacred words?

9 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

To be sure CylonDelos' mind was deteriorating but it was interesting what it was reaching out to for help. 

I speculate that that line (CyborgDelos calling out for Logan) was tossed in for the sole purpose of reminding us, the viewers, that Logan exists.  Present tense.  Sure it could be just a sad moment -- the cyborg calling out to a now-dead "son" that he treated badly while he was human.  But I'm betting that it was really done for OUR benefit  -- to remind the viewer who Logan is and to hint that Logan is alive.  If so, he'll be much older so . . . I wonder who will play him?

[TobinAlbers]

31 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

It was interesting to see William change from someone who showed genuine regard for his father-in-law to being able to torture the 149th version of the man. 

And now after some thought, reading up on other theories and remembering William's/MiB epiphany with Maeve last season with seeing how trauma seemed to push her beyond her programming, I'm wondering when this meeting with Delos149 happened - before or after William realized trauma was a key to the process. Or maybe he didn't realize that all the stuff he dumped on Delos149 and leaving him to suffer was actually was going in the right direction. Had Ford not launched the host rebellion, William might've been surprised to see some improvement.

Another interesting thing to note, Bernard may think he's acting on his own, but the fact that he wouldn't let Elsie leave the lab without him may indicate that Ford's programming to shut down that lab and keep it secret may still be at play but it's at cross purposes with Bernard's own desires. She explicitly said don't lie to me and don't hurt me and he immediately keeps the whopper of a secret that he was the one to kill everyone in the lab. Could be that in trying to keep from having to hurt her, he opted to lie to her so he's somehow finding the 'middle ground' of his latent programming. Or Ford has made Elsie a priority in the game and the hosts that he has control over are acting accordingly.

[LoveLeigh]

I think my opinion will be very unpopular. I am not liking this season at all. It is all too convoluted, hard to follow with all the different timelines, and the writers have gone down so many rabbit holes the series is beginning to resemble LOST. 

There is way too much carnage and slaughter, guns are too accessible by so many, and it is all too far fetched even for this series which has a very implausible theme. 

Season one was beautifully scripted, almost an allegory, but this is just a mess with too much packed into so few episodes so far I hope it does not end up like LOST, with more riddles than answers. 

[Blakeston]

I'm not crazy about the big revelation that there's a secret plan to grant eternal life to the elite few.

I doubt this show can handle that material better than Dollhouse did.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think my opinion will be very unpopular. I am not liking this season at all. It is all too convoluted, hard to follow with all the different timelines, and the writers have gone down so many rabbit holes the series is beginning to resemble LOST. 

There is way too much carnage and slaughter, guns are too accessible by so many, and it is all too far fetched even for this series which has a very implausible theme. 

Season one was beautifully scripted, almost an allegory, but this is just a mess with too much packed into so few episodes so far I hope it does not end up like LOST, with more riddles than answers. 

I am sympathetic to this view, but my issue stems from the same issue I had last season. If I'm going to expend the energy to keep track of the convolutions, the characters need to engage me, and they just......don't. I thought the hosts were more interesting than the humans last season, and the hosts are less interesting to me now, and the humans are no more so.

I also get bored with the non-stop carnage.

[LoveLeigh]

14 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I am sympathetic to this view, but my issue stems from the same issue I had last season. If I'm going to expend the energy to keep track of the convolutions, the characters need to engage me, and they just......don't. I thought the hosts were more interesting than the humans last season, and the hosts are less interesting to me now, and the humans are no more so.

I also get bored with the non-stop carnage.

Also, last season I liked the hosts. I loved Dolores, liked Teddy, loved Clementine, loved Maeve. This season, I hate them all. They are murderers and find sadistic ways to do the deeds. The remaining humans should be rescued and the whole place should be destroyed. It is a stretch to believe that it has taken so long to happen. In real life, one call from a cellphone to the outside world would have brought in the National Guard and the place demolished. 

Who cares how many Bernards there are. I just don't care about any of this. Well, I suppose I should stop this reply to validate that I really do not care. One last question: was this season written by the same writers as Season one?