S06.E14: Second Honeymoons, Part 2

[DrewPaul2010]

15 minutes ago, lezlers said:

But do we know that's what really went down with Ryan and Jackie?  We've seen their arguments before and then watched Ryan's revisionist history when retelling the story to his friends.  I've seen him put his very heavy spin on too many things to take his word for anything.

I think, like Dr. Jessica said, under normal circumstances secretly recording your partner is shitty.  But the doctor herself said that she understood why Jon did it.  He's being constantly gaslighted and Molly seems to be a good liar, good enough that everyone was believing her and the experts were blowing off his concerns.  At that point, what could he do except provide proof?  And while I agree Molly was probably calling him disgusting in the context of him recording her, she went on to mock his hurt feelings in a very cruel and sarcastic way.  There's no excuse for that.  She's terrible. 

This does bring up an interesting question. Why weren't the experts who are supposed to be hovering over these delicate marriages they put together intervening in Jon and Molly's situation long before this blow up week before they make a decision? How is it Jessica came to this situation thinking the problem was Jon's immaturity? That was week one's issue. Don't they watch the episodes?

[silverspoons]

I had been wondering why Jon had never recorded Molly before, even just a voice recording. Easy enough with today's phones. Is it because of the Mass. consent laws to being recorded? Suddenly they go out of state and he tapes her. Maybe he knew the time was coming to an end and he wanted to use it as proof in the divorce?

[lezlers]

5 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I'm thin and blonde, lol--and not to disparage a fellow Thin and Blonde, but Molly is a bitch.

My two guesses are that she's either really into alpha males/bad boys who are going to toss her around in bed and not take her shit (remember the "he's not acting like a man, he's acting like a boy" complaints?) or she's only into super rich dudes and he doesn't fit the monetary bill enough for her.

Thing is, my guess is that Jon wouldn't be averse to either one--he seems like the type who'll wind up very financially successful, and he seems like he'd be up for anything in the bedroom. She's written him off for some reason, and we likely won't ever know the *real* reason.

 

I was poking fun at the posts defending Molly that are constantly not so subtly hinting that all Molly criticisms stem from everyone's jealousy of her beauty.  It's so ridiculous I couldn't help myself. ;)

Edited April 12, 2018 by lezlers

[ReadMeLattice]

34 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I was poking fun at the posts defending Molly that are constantly not so subtly hinting that all Molly criticisms stem from everyone's jealousy of her beauty.  It's so ridiculous I couldn't help myself. ;)

No I know, me too, lol, sorry if that wasn't clear.

[SnarkAttack30]

I haven't been married too long, but I know what words hurt and hit below the belt. Out of respect to my husband, I choose not to be hurtful and use those words when we are arguing. It just wouldn't be fair and realizing that takes maturity. Now, take Molly who brings out emotionally damaging words to argue with her husband. You just don't do that in marriage. Fighting fair is one thing but mocking someone and saying they are disgusting takes it to a whole other level. I think most strong-willed women have the ability to go there... using disparaging words to tear others down. But knowing how destructive that is is exactly why one shouldn't do that and Molly has to learn that lesson somehow. 

[humbleopinion]

Agree.

I don't know how people in relationships walk back from hateful words spoken in anger.

You can't unring that bell...that toothpaste can't be put back in the tube...

[LakeGal]

Yes, you can't fight dirty in a relationship.  Early on in my marriage I realized the word STUPID was a word that my husband's father had used to belittle him.  It was a trigger.  I never ever use that word with my husband.  It does not matter how angry we are when we fight.  It is a word I will not use.  

Molly seems to use words to hurt.  Molly is someone I can not respect.  

[MsPH]

It's funny how Molly seems to find Jon so immature, while I've never seen him act nearly as immature as she did in that video and when she got called out. I remember Jon saying during one of their previous fights that if they're so similar, yet Molly doesn't like him, then it means she must not like herself. Or that was the gist of it anyway. I found it a bit presumptuous then, but now I think he actually has a point. Molly is very immature, but recoils whenever Jon shows any signs of immaturity, or even just youthfulness. It's quite fascinating. Jon might be a bit passive-aggressive (though who wouldn't be in his position?), but I've never heard him use such hurtful language. Any adult should understand that saying such things is the beginning of an end in a relationship. However, we already got a huge hint of Molly's insensitivity and lack of empathy on the honeymoon, when they were skyping one of the experts and she announced out of the blue that she's not attracted to someone who acts like a 12-year-old boy. If she thought nothing of embarrassing her brand new husband like that, then I have no problem believing she's hurtful in private. Clearly she can dish it but can't take it at all, as evidenced by her panic when confronted about her lies. I don't think Jon is perfect and maybe he did say or do something in private that turned her off, but at least he's not fake about things.

 

I was on Jephte's side during the fight. I could swear it was Shawniece who got frustrated with the maze first and then when Jephte did as well, it was suddenly all his fault and meant he didn't want to be a team or be married and hasn't tried at all or whatever nonsense she was saying. She just got so wrapped up in her feelings about their lack of team work in the stupid maze and acted like their whole marriage is doomed because of it. I would've got really upset as well if I was Jephte and our otherwise great romantic trip ended like that because someone went in a mood. I've been guilty of that myself at times and it's my fault and my responsibility to snap out of it. I thought it was really unfair of her to act like Jephte hasn't been trying at all when he clearly has, far more than most people on this show. He might not be the best communicator out there and he may be inexperienced, but he clearly cares about her and they've been mostly happy for a while now. You don't get to that point without trying. I thought it was really big of him to back down, admit fault and apologise. He seems like a pretty stubborn person as well, so doing that showed a lot of self-awareness and potential to me. If they can find a nice balance, they could have a great marriage in my opinion. The puppy is too cute, but I hope she wasn't an actual surprise. No pets should be impulse bought.

 

Ryan is still an idiot who thinks it's his was or the highway. Is he one of those freaks who only need like 5 hours of sleep per night or why is he so obsessed with going out? As someone who needs 7.5 h minimum, I could not handle a partner who prioritises partying over sleep and expects me to just deal with sleep deprivation. Jaclyn deserves so much better!

[humbleopinion]

Ryan likes to go out to drink and get the boozy high...that is his idea of fun...I think an evening of sobriety with Jackie is boring to him when he could be out with his boys drinking it up...

I like when Jephte is playfully goofing around, teasing Shawniece...she yells out his name ...Jephte!... to let him know she's tickled with him...

Jephte! is my new Starbucks name that gets called out when my order is ready... since I can't use Kiki Pierre (my preferred spelling)... I'm going with Jephte!....

[Crazy Bird Lady]

2 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

This does bring up an interesting question. Why weren't the experts who are supposed to be hovering over these delicate marriages they put together intervening in Jon and Molly's situation long before this blow up week before they make a decision? How is it Jessica came to this situation thinking the problem was Jon's immaturity? That was week one's issue. Don't they watch the episodes?

You have an excellent point. Supposedly, the 'experts' are 'monitoring' these 'delicate marriages'. 

But if viewers picked up on the false dialogue and cold body language -- if viewers knew who was faking  ---then those 'experts' leaving Jon and Molly without intervention because Molly kept lying and saying everything is fine, etc. are either incredibly inept, or (much more likely) their main motivation is to create maximum drama for TV.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Gem 10]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Gem 10, I gather from other posts (the scene went right past me) that the mentoring Dr. said the maze WAS somewhat a measure of the relationship of S & J (certainly,  Shawniece felt so), just as those theme park dates were for M & J.  

Indeed, the following show,  "Love at First Flight," has that connection  as its premise.

Yes, and they both failed big time.

Love at First Flight has challenges that the couples have to work out together and get rewarded with a great hotel room or a undesirable room if they can't meet the challenge.  Love it.  After four weeks of togetherness, they either get married or not.  Great concept.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Is it because of the Mass. consent laws to being recorded? Suddenly they go out of state and he tapes her. Maybe he knew the time was coming to an end and he wanted to use it as proof in the divorce?

Florida us also a dual consent State but it's a moot point because Jon didn't secretly record her. He was recording himself talking about the situation and she interjected about him recording so she had full knowledge that it was being taped.

[egnever]

I actually find Jephte necessary for Shawniece. The Shawniece we see is one of the most likable people they've ever cast. She's open, she's nice, she's fun, she gives everything 100%. But she's also prone to overreacting and trying too hard to find the significance of everything (even in confessionals). Hers is the kind of personality that can really wear on you if you don't have the right foil.

Jephte is well balanced to match her because he can be a wet blanket sometimes, and as immature as he is with regard to relationships, he's at least mature enough to recognize when he's wrong and to not hold a grudge when she shows him that he's wrong or insensitive. It's exactly the skeptical, laid back qualities that, while it makes him less charismatic on TV, is the right kind of counterbalance to Shawniece's personality.

Ryan is just an asshole that should never get laid again until he realizes that there are other, non-Ryan people in the world, and their perspectives and feelings actually matter too.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I like Jephte, but unfortunately he has three strikes against him in the boyfriend/husband department...he doesn't know how to handle anger/frustration in general, he said he had no experience growing up and seeing good relationship role models, and he has said he's never been in a relationship (so he hasn't already had that learning opportunity).  It means that much of what he might attribute to unreasonableness on the part of Shawniece (while there might indeed be some), is more than likely just relationship things similar to what would happen with anyone, but he doesn't know that,  

My own husband had 2 strikes against him in this way when we met - Not knowing how to handle anger/frustration in general and never having been in a long term relationship.  The only difference is that he had a father as a role model.  I had already been in a couple of LTRs before I met him.  We got married young, were immature and it took him YEARS to finally understand that I wasn't this crazy demanding shrew, just an average woman that wanted what average women tend to want in their relationships.  I used to point this out all the time but he didn't believe me until his life experience and emotional maturity got up to speed years later.  It looks to me like Jephte may be more willing to understand this at his age than my husband was, so there's hope there.  He has an attractive quality of faithfulness in his attitude that may help get them through.  And they seem to genuinely like each other, which goes a long way.  Without that my own marriage never would have lasted almost 40 years.  I still don't know if I believe they'll last more than a year, though.  I'm not sure they have the patience or devotion to each other to wait until the other one grows up.  

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Ryan likes to go out to drink and get the boozy high...that is his idea of fun...I think an evening of sobriety with Jackie is boring to him when he could be out with his boys drinking it up...

How the "experts' thought this douche was a good candidate for marriage is beyond me.  They should lose their licences for not seeing the 800 lb. gorilla in the room with him.  He doesn't want marriage, just an "affair" with a woman, where he can take her out of the box like a blow up doll and put her back in and forget about her when he's done with her.  He may or many not be an alcoholic, but he's definitely invested in a singles partying lifestyle that doesn't translate well into marriage unless it's dialed back at least 75%.  I hate to say it but I think Jackie's objectivity is blown with him because she wants to be married so badly and the sex may be good.  Otherwise she would be making some serious demands that he scale back the partying a lot.  She complains but she lets him bulldoze her because she doesn't want to upset the apple cart too much.  She doesn't know how to assert herself adequately without worrying that she'll drive him away.  She really needs to get over that and issue the ultimatum or just throw in the towel on decision day.  I don't think he'll ever change anyway.  He reminds me a little of Lilly's Tom, who was way too invested in his free wheeling beach-bummy lifestyle in a mobile home that he allowed to get in the way of marriage and what Lilly wanted from the relationship.  The two divorced but are still good friends - kind of sad that they couldn't work things out given how much they care about each other, but it goes along with my theory is that if they don't get married or at least have the ambition of getting married by a certain age some guys (or women) become really set in their ways in some kind of singles lifestyle that they're unwilling to let go of (or at least dial back a lot) for the sake of marriage.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

You have an excellent point. Supposedly, the 'experts' are 'monitoring' these 'delicate marriages'. 

But if viewers picked up on the false dialogue and cold body language -- if viewers knew who was faking  ---then those 'experts' leaving Jon and Molly without intervention because Molly kept lying and saying everything is fine, etc. are either incredibly inept, or (much more likely) their main motivation is to create maximum drama for TV.

This has been addressed here in previous seasons.  I don't think the experts on this show see more than what regular therapists see of clients in that they only see what is presented to them in sessions with their clients.  They don't get inside information from show production nor view clips of the couples in action like we do when we watch the show way after the fact.  So in some ways we actually have a more realistic view of what these people are all about both separately and together just from watching their body language and daily interaction together on the screen.  That's too bad because therapists can only go by what they're given in sessions and their clients aren't necessarily presenting an honest picture of themselves.  They can easily be given an unrealistic view of things by clients that know how to put on a good act.  Therapists also have their biases and I personally wonder if Molly wasn't feeding into some female to male bias in Dr. Jessica which made her more disposed to see Jon as the source of the problem in the relationship.

[Lily247]

12 hours ago, qtpye said:

Molly will probably be more interested in Jon once he stops showing any interest in her.  She will probably see it as a challenge to get him wrapped around her finger again.

That's what Ive been thinking all season. For as long as she has been cold towards him, he needs to give it right back and not pay attention to her. His anger at not getting affection only fed her ego. If he had left her alone all these weeks, she would have likely come crawling to him, wondering why he resists her natural charms. I don't enjoy seeing her on TV because she is such a bullshitter, which is a quality I cannot stand. 

[SnarkAttack30]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

My own husband had 2 strikes against him in this way when we met - Not knowing how to handle anger/frustration in general and never having been in a long term relationship.  The only difference is that he had a father as a role model.  I had already been in a couple of LTRs before I met him.  We got married young, were immature and it took him YEARS to finally understand that I wasn't this crazy demanding shrew, just an average woman that wanted what average women tend to want in their relationships.  

When I see them fight, it is apparent to me that they are still in the stages of getting to know one another. I don't mean the kind of "getting to know you" with someone's favorite color, food, or superficial b.s. I mean the "getting to know" the emotional triggers, how to navigate personality differences, what the insecurities are, and how to "handle" one another.

The argument they had in the maze started with Shawniece's insecurities and worries that he is not committed to being a team. They have struggled with emotional communication before and I think that is where this spawned from. Jephte didn't help the situation by getting angry and not comforting her but that is something that he will learn with enough time. I remember when my husband and I first started dating, we had passionate arguments because I was insecure and he didn't know how to respond in a way that was emotionally productive or comforting to me. Over time we both learned what to ignore, how to pick and choose fights, and navigate the sometimes-tricky waters of a relationship. Jephte will learn that it triggers Shawniece when he says he "doesn't know" her and even if he feels that way, he will stop vocalizing it so much to avoid he emotional upheaval it causes. 

[humbleopinion]

Molly is delusional about the world she creates for herself and  she will walk away from the show thinking Jon is her best friend.

Why not?...she and Jon have so much footage of them having fun, have so much in common and she hasn't spent so much time with anyone else than Jon, her manicurist and hair stylist.

Molly revises history by mentally diminishing the hurtful things she hissed out to him, by minimizing the unpleasant spats and fights.

Molly tightly controls her image and absolves herself about having any responsibility for bad behavior, lying and manipulating those around her.

She is that family member that remembers things incorrectly and always in their favor...ask her sisters...

  Bet they find themselves saying sorry, Molly,  we were there and that's not how it happened...

Molly is puzzled that Jon hasn't answered her text that she sent after the Dr. Jessica confrontation...

She needs to manipulate and convince him not to throw her under the bus at Decision Day...

She fully expects him to still be on her page, the Molly was an awesome wife page...

Seems she quickly recruited (manipulated) Jackie to come over and hear her story of lies about the bar footage...One ally on the couches...

Hope Jon has shut the book on Molly and comes out from under her spell...

[Booger666]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This has been addressed here in previous seasons.  I don't think the experts on this show see more than what regular therapists see of clients in that they only see what is presented to them in sessions with their clients.  They don't get inside information from show production nor view clips of the couples in action like we do when we watch the show way after the fact.  So in some ways we actually have a more realistic view of what these people are all about both separately and together just from watching their body language and daily interaction together on the screen.  That's too bad because therapists can only go by what they're given in sessions and their clients aren't necessarily presenting an honest picture of themselves.  They can easily be given an unrealistic view of things by clients that know how to put on a good act.  Therapists also have their biases and I personally wonder if Molly wasn't feeding into some female to male bias in Dr. Jessica which made her more disposed to see Jon as the source of the problem in the relationship.

I’ve heard this about other reality shows too.  Makes sense that they only get paid when they film so why spend time watching clips of the show since they aren’t getting paid for that.  Plus, Molly is a really, really, really good liar.  If I were her friends or coworkers I would be VERY uncomfortable being anywhere near someone who lies this well and frequently. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Booger666

[Gem 10]

I've said all along that Molly seems to have issues not only with Jon, but in general and should be in therapy.  Now I realize that she most likely wouldn't be truthful with the therapist.  Not only is she a habitual liar, but she truly believes the lies.  Doesn't her Mother and Sisters see that?  Jon and the shows therapist saw it.

[Yeah No]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:46 AM, psychoticstate said:

She could be like Ashley from Atlanta and was turned off from the moment she saw Jon because he's not her usual type.  Maybe he smacks his food or clips his toenails in bed.  Whatever, Molly has been emotionally closed off and checked out since the beginning.   Unless the editing monkeys are playing with us, Jon has not done anything in order to receive the treatment he's been getting from her.  If that were the case, as another poster noted, don't you think Molly would have brought it up when Dr. Jessica busted her for lying?  Molly didn't say anything about how Jon treated her or acted when the cameras were off; nope, she tried to deflect, threatened to lose her shit and then talk over Dr. Jessica.  

I think Molly is another one of those over-controlled people that has to have everything "just so" in her life.  If one hair is out of place or zit is showing she can't have it.  Same for the guy in her life, which begs the question as to why she would go on a show like this in the first place.  You have to be somewhat open and flexible as far as looks and personality go in order to allow yourself to be married at first sight, unless you're doing it for other reasons, which would make sense in Molly's case.  I think Molly is a closet narcissist and may have done it because it appealed to her narcissism.

I'm also not sold on the idea that Molly's looking for some kind of dominant brute.  I think the opposite may be true because she seems to want everything just so in her life, or at least in her mind.  Jon may actually be too much of an alpha male for her.  She needs someone she can wrap around her finger and she sensed that Jon is not it.  Jon seems like a reasonable sort that would want to negotiate fairly over things.  She really wants someone that would just let her have her way with everything.  When she went on about how similar they were that was code for he's not what she's looking for.  She wanted someone with similar interests but not also an alpha that ever wanted to take the lead in the relationship.  Jon strikes me as the kind of guy that would alternate between leading and following but she wants to lead all the time.  Or at least she would want some stone cold passive aggressive silent type that she could think she's manipulating.  Whatever.

Another theory I have is that she has an image in her mind of what the perfect guy for her is like, probably similar to her father.  The things she said she wanted in a guy sound a lot like stuff from her father's generation, which makes me wonder if she isn't really looking for a daddy replacement.  Daddy may have been emotionally distant and he-man-ish on the surface but really more submissive/passive aggressive in his relationship with her mother (I've known that type!)  I've known cops that were very he-man like on the job but at home the wife had them on a leash, with their tacit consent.  Molly seems to me to be the type that would be more interested in a guy if he was more distant emotionally than Jon is.  I don't think Jon would have been happy with her anyway because she would want to control him.  She never let him get close enough to her to see that dynamic in action because she's so attached to the ideal of her perfect daddy replacement that she would never even allow it to get that far.  So instead she put on the act of relating to him as an equal friend, when that is not what she wanted out of a romantic relationship.

[2727]

The Reddit forum about MAFS has an "insider" contact who's supposedly been providing info from behind the scenes. One tidbit was that none of the crew members liked Ryan. Okay, sure. Believable. But I've always wondered how this fool has so many "boys" he hangs out with in the first place. His firefighter and paintball buddies would have no idea how he acts with Jackie, but still. You'd think the ego, nonstop talking, and inability to listen would put people off.

Molly seems to think that Jon being boisterous and enjoying driving a dune buggy through mud is "acting like a 12-year-old." The top question I'd kill to have Molly answer is what being an "outgoing, fun, life of the party" person really means to her.

[Gem 10]

26 minutes ago, 2727 said:

The Reddit forum about MAFS has an "insider" contact who's supposedly been providing info from behind the scenes. One tidbit was that none of the crew members liked Ryan. Okay, sure. Believable. But I've always wondered how this fool has so many "boys" he hangs out with in the first place. His firefighter and paintball buddies would have no idea how he acts with Jackie, but still. You'd think the ego, nonstop talking, and inability to listen would put people off.

Molly seems to think that Jon being boisterous and enjoying driving a dune buggy through mud is "acting like a 12-year-old." The top question I'd kill to have Molly answer is what being an "outgoing, fun, life of the party" person really means to her.

Molly may be pretty and all, but what guy would want such a complex woman like her.  She would be too much trouble and hard to understand.  Eventually, a guy would be turned off by all her quirks.  I don't think the trouble was Jon, the trouble was her.  She doesn't like this, she doesn't like that, she's very hard to please because she's troubled for some reason.  Jon probably isn't the first guy that couldn't take her ways.

[holly4755]

I wish people would not refer to Ryan as an alcoholic. I was married to an alcoholic, and it was not easy to hide. he was a periodic and could go for a month or so, but not much longer without getting falling down drunk and nasty. I had a friend who was an alcoholic, he , unlike my ex, was a pleasant drunk, so no one cared so much that he was drunk most of the time because he would sing softly and flatter everyone and generally be pleasant to be around but we watched his life fall apart anyway, and that showed the disaster that is alcoholism.  There are a lot of different types of drunk, but most could not be on a show like this without more of it showing. I see him as a guy with issues, he is trying to "be a man" in some fake stereotypical way, hanging out with his friends as guy stuff, working hard to be the man who brings home the bacon,  controlling HIS woman (note: like property) because that is what strong men do in movies and their women like it (this is apparently some kind of crazy male fantasy for some guys not most,).  a lot of people have beliefs of what marriage is, and without really being committed or understanding the person, they get to play it out on TV.  I have been related to some men like that my Ex thought that way for about 5 minutes until his friends laughed at him for saying stupid things, not to mention I would not tolerate that kind of behavior.  I have seen it with guys I worked with, I have seen it with cousins and in laws. no one is happy in those marriages.  

Jephete, why would he do this show, he is not ready? Debt. student debt, personal debt? some people are buried in debt and getting 50 K for 6 weeks work seems like a godsend. Yes they will do ridiculous things like getting married when they divorce will be paid for.  They don't come in like this is really going to work. I can see where he would not believe this is really a marriage, but a TV show and not want to sleep with a stranger on TV show, but want to wait out the 6 weeks and get paid. Just my opinion, but I don't think he is so unprepared, as much as uncommitted because I don't think he really believed this would work. As long as they pay people, this is what they would get, but if they didn't pay people, what kind of real life losers would they get. As it is, he seems to be getting more into it, than I would have thought. 

I think both Jon and Molly are in it for money or fame not for romance, I think a lot of bad matches can happen,but what I don't understand is not being decent to your partner, even if you find them repulsive and there are a ton of reasons you can  feel that way some emotional and some logical.  BYes, there is pretend for the cameras, but don't be  unneccessarily nasty or rude.  I would hope they could be honest off camera, 

[Jack Sampson]

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

She is that family member that remembers things incorrectly and always in their favor...ask her sisters...

  Bet they find themselves saying sorry, Molly,  we were there and that's not how it happened...

Molly is puzzled that Jon hasn't answered her text that she sent after the Dr. Jessica confrontation...

 

Molly was already spinning things last episode - she told her sisters that the only reason Jon might say no is because she won't have sex.  NOT that she's an abusive maniac. 

Regarding the text, she's setting herself up as a suffering, loyal wife who got matched with a mean-spirited person who won't even try.  Notice, she's telling Jackie this!  Jackie who is, in fact, a suffering, loyal wife.  It's cold and calculating - she's doing her best to manipulate poor Jackie into believing they're both in the same boat.    

 

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Molly may be pretty and all, but what guy would want such a complex woman like her.  She would be too much trouble and hard to understand.  Eventually, a guy would be turned off by all her quirks.  I don't think the trouble was Jon, the trouble was her.  She doesn't like this, she doesn't like that, she's very hard to please because she's troubled for some reason.  Jon probably isn't the first guy that couldn't take her ways.

Thing is, she's not pretty.  She has a great body, but that acne-riddled face is average at best.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, holly4755 said:

I wish people would not refer to Ryan as an alcoholic. I was married to an alcoholic, and it was not easy to hide. he was a periodic and could go for a month or so, but not much longer without getting falling down drunk and nasty. I had a friend who was an alcoholic, he , unlike my ex, was a pleasant drunk, so no one cared so much that he was drunk most of the time because he would sing softly and flatter everyone and generally be pleasant to be around but we watched his life fall apart anyway, and that showed the disaster that is alcoholism.  There are a lot of different types of drunk, but most could not be on a show like this without more of it showing. I see him as a guy with issues, he is trying to "be a man" in some fake stereotypical way, hanging out with his friends as guy stuff, working hard to be the man who brings home the bacon,  controlling HIS woman (note: like property) because that is what strong men do in movies and their women like it (this is apparently some kind of crazy male fantasy for some guys not most,).  a lot of people have beliefs of what marriage is, and without really being committed or understanding the person, they get to play it out on TV.  I have been related to some men like that my Ex thought that way for about 5 minutes until his friends laughed at him for saying stupid things, not to mention I would not tolerate that kind of behavior.  I have seen it with guys I worked with, I have seen it with cousins and in laws. no one is happy in those marriages.  

Jephete, why would he do this show, he is not ready? Debt. student debt, personal debt? some people are buried in debt and getting 50 K for 6 weeks work seems like a godsend. Yes they will do ridiculous things like getting married when they divorce will be paid for.  They don't come in like this is really going to work. I can see where he would not believe this is really a marriage, but a TV show and not want to sleep with a stranger on TV show, but want to wait out the 6 weeks and get paid. Just my opinion, but I don't think he is so unprepared, as much as uncommitted because I don't think he really believed this would work. As long as they pay people, this is what they would get, but if they didn't pay people, what kind of real life losers would they get. As it is, he seems to be getting more into it, than I would have thought. 

I think both Jon and Molly are in it for money or fame not for romance, I think a lot of bad matches can happen,but what I don't understand is not being decent to your partner, even if you find them repulsive and there are a ton of reasons you can  feel that way some emotional and some logical.  BYes, there is pretend for the cameras, but don't be  unneccessarily nasty or rude.  I would hope they could be honest off camera, 

The longer reality shows are around, the more I realize that there are a lot of people who just really want to be on TV. I don't know if The Real World is still on but I've seen the contract the participants had to sign, and it's basically like "Literally anything can happen to you and you have no recourse. If one of the other cast members kills you, that's very sad, but your family can't do anything." Being on House Hunters pays $500 AND you have to pick out the other two houses you're "touring" (the show is completely staged). Seems like a pain in the ass for $500, but new episodes of that show are on literally every day. I can think of a couple off the top of my head that has been on three times - and they've had million-dollar-plus budgets every time, so it's not like they need the $500!

There are a lot of unethical things I would consider doing to get rid of my student loans but going on this show isn't one of them. Way more trouble than it's worth (and my suspicion is they don't get anywhere near the amount of money that's been thrown around).

I think Jephte really does want to be a father (I found it very sweet when he was saying how he couldn't wait to do that), so my guess is he wants to do that right away and wants to do so within a married couple - I think his father has like a dozen kids and I'm a) not sure they're all with his mother and b) even if they are, I don't think he and his mother were ever married. So my guess is he wanted to do it "right" and quickly.

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Molly may be pretty and all, but what guy would want such a complex woman like her.  She would be too much trouble and hard to understand.  Eventually, a guy would be turned off by all her quirks.  I don't think the trouble was Jon, the trouble was her.  She doesn't like this, she doesn't like that, she's very hard to please because she's troubled for some reason.  Jon probably isn't the first guy that couldn't take her ways.

I don't see Molly as particularly complex. She comes across to me as pretty basic (both in the literal and the "basic bitch" sense). I think she wasn't into Jon (and really, why she wasn't doesn't matter - no one is entitled to have someone be interested in them), has a mean streak, is astute enough to recognize how bad it would look to be shitty on camera but isn't mature enough to just not be shitty, was shitty off camera, and got caught.

[greeneyedscorpio]

16 hours ago, MsPH said:

I thought it was really big of him to back down, admit fault and apologise. He seems like a pretty stubborn person as well, so doing that showed a lot of self-awareness and potential to me.

This!!  This is a wonderful quality to have in a marriage and I've seen Jephte humble himself several times and apologize and promise to try harder.  This will serve him well.  Unlike our friend Ryan who is always right and never wrong and will never change for anyone.  

Edited April 12, 2018 by greeneyedscorpio

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

He was crushing on her so hard  from the beginning that she knew he was going to be easy to manipulate and bend to her will.

 

Or at least she thought so!  But she was wrong - see below.

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

She miscalculated Jon's recording her tantrum and the show's willingness to expose her as a shrew...

 

Precisely because she miscalculated Jon as being easy to manipulate and bend to her will.  Jon was going along for the ride for a while letting her string him along while holding out some hope that she was not BS-ing him about how "things might change", but he had to know after a while that she was just putting on an act especially after her vicious off-camera insults.  After he wised up he went along with the act on camera and waited for his moment to catch her in the act to expose her.  That's no guy that's "easy to manipulate".  He only looked that way on the surface.  Jon seems like a decent guy but he's no marshmallow.  I think it's great how he got the last laugh on her.  He played her own game on her and caught her!  She didn't see it coming!

Story of my own life - It takes one to know one!

Edited April 12, 2018 by Yeah No

[DrewPaul2010]

14 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

You have an excellent point. Supposedly, the 'experts' are 'monitoring' these 'delicate marriages'. 

But if viewers picked up on the false dialogue and cold body language -- if viewers knew who was faking  ---then those 'experts' leaving Jon and Molly without intervention because Molly kept lying and saying everything is fine, etc. are either incredibly inept, or (much more likely) their main motivation is to create maximum drama for TV.

There are probably two tiers of people producing and managing this TV show, those who just want enough compelling drama and interest to get people to endure 20 minutes of commercials per episode. They couldn't care less who is successful, who gets hurt who blows up as long as its compelling TV... the bottom line. The counselors on the show do seem to genuinely care and hope their match making is successful. If all the producers wanted was non-stop drama, they could match people they know are going to be a train wreck and I don't think they do that. I suspect Molly misled everyone and maybe herself because she doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in making a go of it. Someone who wants to make a go of it isn't going to make a decision within a few hours. Molly was done the first night she may have already decided before the wedding this was the course of action she was going to take. Its unfortunate though because Jon was willing to make a go of it. I can't imagine he developed really strong bonds or attachment to Molly (someone whose touch makes her skin crawl) but rejection is hard to deal with. 

6 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

This!!  This is a wonderful quality to have in a marriage and I've seen Jephte humble himself several times and apologize and promise to try harder.  This will serve him well.  Unlike our friend Ryan who is always right and never wrong and will never change for anyone.  How's that working for you so far, buddy?  

A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility. I think that couple is going to be fine, they work there issues out and have come to love and care about one another.

[Stinamaia]

18 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I had been wondering why Jon had never recorded Molly before, even just a voice recording. Easy enough with today's phones. Is it because of the Mass. consent laws to being recorded? Suddenly they go out of state and he tapes her. Maybe he knew the time was coming to an end and he wanted to use it as proof in the divorce?

Not sure of Mass. laws, but non consummation isusually grounds for annulment. Otherwise, divorces of most marriages are no fault.   The courts don’t care about this level of fighting.  It’s assumed you haven’t been getting along; hence the divorce

[OldButHappy]

  16 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

You have an excellent point. Supposedly, the 'experts' are 'monitoring' these 'delicate marriages'. 

But if viewers picked up on the false dialogue and cold body language -- if viewers knew who was faking  ---then those 'experts' leaving Jon and Molly without intervention because Molly kept lying and saying everything is fine, etc. are either incredibly inept, or (much more likely) their main motivation is to create maximum drama for TV.

There are probably two tiers of people producing and managing this TV show, those who just want enough compelling drama and interest to get people to endure 20 minutes of commercials per episode. They couldn't care less who is successful, who gets hurt who blows up as long as its compelling TV... the bottom line. The counselors on the show do seem to genuinely care and hope their match making is successful. If all the producers wanted was non-stop drama, they could match people they know are going to be a train wreck and I don't think they do that. I suspect Molly misled everyone and maybe herself because she doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in making a go of it. Someone who wants to make a go of it isn't going to make a decision within a few hours. Molly was done the first night she may have already decided before the wedding this was the course of action she was going to take. Its unfortunate though because Jon was willing to make a go of it. I can't imagine he developed really strong bonds or attachment to Molly (someone whose touch makes her skin crawl) but rejection is hard to deal with. 

  51 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

This!!  This is a wonderful quality to have in a marriage and I've seen Jephte humble himself several times and apologize and promise to try harder.  This will serve him well.  Unlike our friend Ryan who is always right and never wrong and will never change for anyone.  How's that working for you so far, buddy?  

A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility. I think that couple is going to be fine, they work there issues out and have come to love and care about one another.

"....A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility...."

Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one!

Oh...wait...were you being serious????

[glitterpussy]

5 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I've said all along that Molly seems to have issues not only with Jon, but in general and should be in therapy.  Now I realize that she most likely wouldn't be truthful with the therapist.  Not only is she a habitual liar, but she truly believes the lies.  Doesn't her Mother and Sisters see that?  Jon and the shows therapist saw it.

This. Molly is a classic narcissist, right down to the explosive anger/deflection when called on her BS. She did it every time Jon even mildly criticized her or tried to discuss anything--see the bedroom fight about the threesome. It's all about protecting the perfect image she tries to present, because she feels broken and worthless inside. Luckily for the world, she's not super smart so its fairly easy to see through her lies. Further evidence is the fact that she doesn't appear to have any friends outside her family.

I think maybe she was drunk during the videotaping? So she perhaps didn't remember clearly what went down...that would explain her surprise, and Jon was smart enough not to tell her and save it for the ambush! Yeah!

Ryan and Jackie were secondary this week, but my husband and I have taken to making  a "Jackie sadface" whenever we hear something we don't like...you guys know what I mean. She's really good at pouting. Not that she doesn't have every reason--Ryan is appalling--but it's something to see.

No one has yet asked the most important question of the episode--WHAT KIND OF DOG IS KEKE AND WHERE DO I GET ONE?????!!!

[JapMo]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:11 AM, becauseIsaidso said:

Last night I started wondering if Jon has been suffering from stress sweat. That stuff is nasty. I've only had it a couple of times, but it was profuse and quite stinky and did NOT go away until the stressor was removed. 

I had that once many years ago.  Never before or since, but I still remember it.  Stress over an asshole boss who had me second guessing everything I did.  I hated working for her but back then, you didn't dare job hop.  I won't go into details because you got the physical stuff down.  Like you said, it didn't end until I realized I was yelling at my kids and my husband and being miserable every Sunday because I knew I had to go to work the next day and see her.  Since I couldn't leave, I decided I wasn't going to let her bother me and I started talking back and standing up for myself and not letting her get away with her crap.  She didn't like it, and I endured another 12 months of her, but I made a promise that I was not going to let her get to me and all my symptoms went away.  When I think about it now, I wish I would have just punched her fat ass and walked out.  Whew...that was cathartic, LOL.

[humbleopinion]

3 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Thing is, she's not pretty.  She has a great body, but that acne-riddled face is average at best.

From The Urban Dictionary..

butter face

n. A girl who is hot, except for her (but her, butter) face.

Molly is a Butter Face...

Edited April 12, 2018 by humbleopinion

[Jack Sampson]

1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility.

Exactly right!

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jack Sampson

[humbleopinion]

1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility.

Hi Ryan B... you sure about the definition of humility?...

Think you took too many paint balls to your head without a helmet....

Stick to fighting fires and pounding nails into lumber.

What if you are two men in a relationship?...how does that math work?...

Edited April 12, 2018 by humbleopinion

[JapMo]

On 4/11/2018 at 10:39 AM, Lm2162 said:

I don't think we'll ever know the whole story. Which is frustrating, not because I want more evidence that Molly sucks (don't need it) but because I think it would be a much more interesting story if we knew the truth.

I agree.  At least with Ashley, she told her girlfriend at the wedding she wasn't attracted to David.  Molly has not slipped up once...not even to her sisters.  

[Kiss my mutt]

Molly is a sociopath. That’s why she’s so good at this. 

[humbleopinion]

Molly could have avoided her mess if she had the courtesy to say to Jon...Hey Jon, I'm going to chat with this guy for a while...thanks...

The whole bar fiasco would be non existent,  no cause to video her hissy fit  because there would have not been any drama since she took 2 seconds to let Jon know she's not ignoring him purposefully.

But she didn't know that rude snub was the final straw that broke Camel Jon's back...

Remember how Ursula got all big and scary when she got angry near the end of The Little Mermaid?... That's Molly if you dare alter the carefully crafted narrative of her life....

[JapMo]

From the previews weeks ago when this season was about to air, I told my daughter there was something off about Jon that made me not trust his motives.  I just had an "uh-oh" feeling about him.  And I thought Molly was pretty and sweet and genuine.  So imagine my surprise that it turned out to be the exact opposite.  I've watched Jon like we all have, and I see an honest man who wants to be married and has tried very hard to be the man Molly wants.  The fact that after several episodes they still hadn't consummated their marriage, and she finally admitted that she still didn't have those kind of feelings for him but was hoping eventually she would, still made me root for them and think they had a good chance.  Why?  Because episode after episode aired and she kept maintaining how compatible they were, and we could see for ourselves that they laughed and seemed to get along so great and they didn't seem to argue and were respectful.  Jon wasn't happy about the lack of sex, but said he wanted this to work and was in it 100%.  She never said he made her skin crawl.  I mean, knock me over with a feather here...I just didn't see this coming.  But I do remember Jon saying a few episodes back that Molly was extremely cold and said hurtful things when the cameras weren't filming.  When she kissed him in Orlando at the little picnic area, he did seem very surprised, and it occurred to me that she had not, in fact, been very affectionate at all, but then again she never EVER acted mean towards him.  If she was faking it, man she was good.  She never exposed herself on camera.  I can't see them coming back from this.  

[DrewPaul2010]

4 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Molly could have avoided her mess if she had the courtesy to say to Jon...Hey Jon, I'm going to chat with this guy for a while...thanks...

 

Really? I'll try that with my wife next time I'm out...hey hon I'm going to chat up this hot chick for a while...you just chill.

[humbleopinion]

Sure if you say it that way then she'll be upset...how about ...I'm having a conversation with this woman here, let me introduce you...

Edited April 12, 2018 by humbleopinion
Grammar fix

[DrewPaul2010]

6 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Sure if you say it that way then she'll be upset...how about ...I'm having a conversation to this woman here, let me introduce you...

You must be a different era...unless I had some compelling reason to chat with another woman I'd be in the dog house for sometime to come and my wife wouldn't want to be introduced. If my wife thought I was looking at another woman too intently that would draw negative attention. I don't think my wife is overly jealous like most married couples were supposed to be paying attention to our mate. Molly paid little attention to her husband but engaged in a conversation with another man. I don't know on what planet that would go over well.

[gonecrackers]

5 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

A man is usually only wrong 1 time out of 10 times accused of being wrong but he should own up to the few times they are actually wrong just to have some humility.

And that would be the time he didn't listen to his wife.

Edited April 12, 2018 by gonecrackers

[JapMo]

12 minutes ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

You must be a different era...unless I had some compelling reason to chat with another woman I'd be in the dog house for sometime to come and my wife wouldn't want to be introduced. If my wife thought I was looking at another woman too intently that would draw negative attention. I don't think my wife is overly jealous like most married couples were supposed to be paying attention to our mate. Molly paid little attention to her husband but engaged in a conversation with another man. I don't know on what planet that would go over well.

A couple is at a bar and one starts talking to someone else..........if they know what's good for them, within no more than two minutes they better be introducing their spouse by saying "hey, this is my wife/husband/whatever."  That does 2 things.  Gets you out of a jealous tirade and/or the freeze-out, AND if the person was hitting on you they know instantly wifey/hubby is not going to allow it and they'd better just move on down the bar.

[holly4755]

ok, made me look. according to one source 

theashleysrealityroundup on season 2 they make 1500 per episode, and with 18 episodes as there was last year that would be 27K. 

but they also get an apartment and expenses and a vacation. that was season 2

but then there is this one  there was this article

How much are the Married at First Sight contestants paid?

Quote

According to a production insider the contestants are paid—and paid quite well. She says:

“I will try to answer some questions however I have to watch to not give my identity away…..

“Single people receive $5000 an episode. Marry couples get $20,000 an episode which is a very big incentive to stay together.”

“Last I heard none of the women are signing the contract to continue as it is a 5 year commitment that they can film you whenever they want up to five years and you do not get paid unless you are actually in an episode.”

“For second year of marriage Jamie & Doug/ Courtney & Jason are getting $40,000 per episode.”

[kira28]

17 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Molly could have avoided her mess if she had the courtesy to say to Jon...Hey Jon, I'm going to chat with this guy for a while...thanks...

The whole bar fiasco would be non existent,  no cause to video her hissy fit  because there would have not been any drama since she took 2 seconds to let Jon know she's not ignoring him purposefully.

I honestly don't think it would have mattered if Molly Would  have given Jon a heads up. While I like Jon much more than Molly I'm not feeling all the Jon love and sympathy. He may be a great guy I have no idea. I know he's getting a good edit (giving up the cat for Molly he really didn't give up etc) I  am suspicious of his edit because in the past all the loser or cheating asshole men were some who got a really good edit. Basement Ryan, David and Nate come to mind. Sheila appeared unhinged and Nate the poor gods guy who had to deal with her mood swings. They made heather look like a cold crazy bitch who didnt give her husband a chance just because he smoked cigarettes when in fact he was a pothead with a pretty big addiction. 

Jon seems like the type of guy who expects sex and is using Molly's lack of sexual desire for him as a weapon against her. All we've seen him complain about is the lack of affection.  I understand that he's frustrated. When one thinks of marriage they think of sex. But most people know each other and have a comfort level before getting married. IMO Molly shouldn't be expected to have sex with Jon. Yet he seems angry that she won't. He threw it in her face thst she Could f$ck a total stranger but won't touch him. He was basically bashing her for her sexual history which had nothing to do with him. Also walking around in tiny underwear in front of a woman who has no sexual interest in u is kinda of weird and borderline inappropriate. I realize they are married but in reality they are two people getting to know each other  to see if they even want to date. I wouid guess Jon got mad at the bar because Molly was showing interest in another man and his ego was hurt and so he flipped out which Molly was rightfully irritated by. I still maintain she was calling his taping the conversation disgusting and not Jon physically. 

I would love to know what Molly's problem with Jon was. I know that I've dated a guy who was attractive  and funny and we got along really well but for some reason I was almost grossed out by the thought of having sex with him. There was no chemistry. The more he tried to entice me the more I pulled away. I became annoyed with his efforts because the more he harped on or pushed for sex the more repulsed I became and i had to end things. Maybe Molly experienced something similar. Or maybe she's just so uptight and  "perfect" that she found it hard to tolerate Jon constantly being hyper and "on" and some of his frat like or childish behaviors. It's odd that the experts mention Jon is emotionally immature when we haven't really seen that. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by kira28

[Kareem]

In the previews for next week, getting ready for Decision Day, Jephte says he doesn't want to be embarrassed and they laugh.  Molly hopes they'll both be on the same page.  I doubt she means colorful adjectives so I don't get what page she's shooting for; and the little turd buys Jaclyn a necklace!  Which she likes!  In the name of all that is holy, I hope she doesn't fall for that.  
 

[LennieBriscoe]

4 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

how about ...I'm having a conversation with this woman here, let me introduce you...

Uh....no. Times Avogadro's Number, no. How about, "Hey, spouse, how was your day? You look mighty fine tonight!"

Married people aren't actually, you know, supposed to be chatting up strangers of the opposite sex in a bar, never mind learning their names so as to introduce them, let alone with the spouse right there, let alone again while being NEWLYWEDS!

But I guess Guy In Bar didn't make Molly's skin crawl.....

Edited April 13, 2018 by LennieBriscoe