S06.E14: Second Honeymoons, Part 2

[EctoGammat]

I'm so glad this season is almost over. Every time Ryan says something douchey (which really, is most of the time) I'm yelling WHAT A DOUCHE!!! at the TV. God only knows what my neighbors must think by now. 

[humbleopinion]

Apologies for my faux pas about marrieds' behaviors in bars.

Duly noted...

[Yeah No]

On 4/11/2018 at 10:11 PM, humbleopinion said:

Agree.

I don't know how people in relationships walk back from hateful words spoken in anger.

You can't unring that bell...that toothpaste can't be put back in the tube...

There's such a thing as "hateful words spoken in anger" and then there's "mean go-for-the-jugular viciousness", and I think the difference here is that Molly stepped over the line from the former into the latter.  As many times as my husband and I have argued over the years I can honestly say we've never said things like "you're disgusting" or "you make my skin crawl".  But even if we had said those things it depends on the relationship and the context within which the words were spoken.  If a wife said that to her husband after finding out he had an affair, it might be a different story if after hearing that the man realizes he was wrong and wants to make amends to his wife.  If a relationship is strong enough it can come back from worse than that.  Unfortunately in this case there really wasn't much of a relationship in the first place and the words were not forgivable in any way shape or form as spoken to Jon.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Uh....no. Times Avogadro's Number, no. How about, "Hey, spouse, how was your day? You look mighty fine tonight!"

Married people aren't actually, you know, supposed to be chatting up strangers of the opposite sex in a bar, never mind learning their names so as to introduce them, let alone with the spouse right there, let alone again while being NEWLYWEDS!

 

Exactly.  Unless they're swingers, LOL.  Which most people are not.  But even swingers have their boundaries with stuff like that (not that I am one but I have known a few).  And again, context is everything.  If the person is someone you know from work or your local town committee or church, or (insert organization here), that's different.  If it's someone you know, to ignore them would be impolite.  Of course you can't look like you're looking for a date with them when you talk to them either!   This can be tricky if the opposite sex person is attractive. 

Almost 40 years ago on our honeymoon, hubbie and I went to one of those old fashioned Pocono Mountain resorts where everyone sat around a huge round table in the dining room (with assigned seating for the whole week no less), which of course made everyone feel like they should be polite and sociable.  This was known as a "couples" resort so we were chatting with other couples, some of whom were also on their honeymoons.  That made for some very stiff, over-polite exchanges in some cases, but by mid week we had broken the ice and it felt OK.  I will always remember those people, especially the cute, colorful older couples (think the end of "When Harry Met Sally").  People like that don't even exist anymore.  But I digress....

Edited April 13, 2018 by Yeah No
Because it was the Poconos, not the Catskills, agh.

[Gem 10]

On April 11, 2018 at 12:09 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

Interesting you say that because I could imagine Molly being with a domineering tattooed biker type who takes none of her shit or mouth and would have her in the sack in no time. 

Yeah, like Sandra Bullock.  She dated lots of nice guys but ended marrying one of those bikers who ultimately gave her the business.  

[psychoticstate]

12 hours ago, Kareem said:

In the previews for next week, getting ready for Decision Day, Jephte says he doesn't want to be embarrassed and they laugh.  Molly hopes they'll both be on the same page.  I doubt she means colorful adjectives so I don't get what page she's shooting for; and the little turd buys Jaclyn a necklace!  Which she likes!  In the name of all that is holy, I hope she doesn't fall for that.  
 

What "same page" could Molly possibly be hoping for?  That they both think Jon is disgusting?  

Frankly, other than a monetary incentive, I don't know why they would even bother with Decision Day.  Molly and Jon are one couple who if they said they were going to stay together for whatever jacked up reason, the "experts" should throw up an intervention and forbid it.   I'm really hoping that Jon unloads on her while they're sitting on the couch - -she totally deserves it.

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Exactly.  Unless they're swingers, LOL.  Which most people are not.  But even swingers have their boundaries with stuff like that (not that I am one but I have known a few).  And again, context is everything.  If the person is someone you know from work or your local town committee or church, or (insert organization here), that's different.  If it's someone you know, to ignore them would be impolite.  Of course you can't look like you're looking for a date with them when you talk to them either!   This can be tricky if the opposite sex person is attractive. 

Almost 40 years ago on our honeymoon, hubbie and I went to one of those old fashioned Catskill resorts where everyone sat around a huge round table in the dining room (with assigned seating for the whole week no less), which of course made everyone feel like they should be polite and sociable.  This was known as a "couples" resort so we were chatting with other couples, some of whom were also on their honeymoons.  That made for some very stiff, over-polite exchanges in some cases, but by mid week we had broken the ice and it felt OK.  I will always remember those people, especially the cute, colorful older couples (think the end of "When Harry Met Sally").  People like that don't even exist anymore.  But I digress....

Ha ha .. Me and mine also, but in the Poconos.  Same scenario.  Large round table, same couples every day, activities.  We all made a pact to meet together again in ten years, but it never happened.  I often think of that time also and wonder if they all are still together.  Good times.

[Gem 10]

34 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

What "same page" could Molly possibly be hoping for?  That they both think Jon is disgusting?  

Frankly, other than a monetary incentive, I don't know why they would even bother with Decision Day.  Molly and Jon are one couple who if they said they were going to stay together for whatever jacked up reason, the "experts" should throw up an intervention and forbid it.   I'm really hoping that Jon unloads on her while they're sitting on the couch - -she totally deserves it.

Molly is really on another planet.  In her mind, she really thinks they are on the "same page".  After all, they did go on the rides, went rock climbing and made an apple pie .. they have soooo much in common.  I think she has themind of a five year old.  PSYCHO !!!!

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Ha ha .. Me and mine also, but in the Poconos.  Same scenario.  Large round table, same couples every day, activities.  We all made a pact to meet together again in ten years, but it never happened.  I often think of that time also and wonder if they all are still together.  Good times.

Sorry I meant the Poconos - I wrote that before caffeine, I'll go back and change it.  Mt. Airy Lodge, LOL.

[Gem 10]

12 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Sorry I meant the Poconos - I wrote that before caffeine, I'll go back and change it.  Mt. Airy Lodge, LOL.

          Cove Haven for us.  And, I didn't go in the champagne glass bath for two ?.

[DrewPaul2010]

On 4/12/2018 at 5:05 AM, Lily247 said:

That's what Ive been thinking all season. For as long as she has been cold towards him, he needs to give it right back and not pay attention to her. His anger at not getting affection only fed her ego. If he had left her alone all these weeks, she would have likely come crawling to him, wondering why he resists her natural charms. I don't enjoy seeing her on TV because she is such a bullshitter, which is a quality I cannot stand. 

Absolutely when Molly made it known it was dating at first sight he should have said fine lets date and he should have the freedom to date others as well. He shouldn't have continued to pretend they were a married couple, he should have stopped laying in bed with her and gotten his own place.  The part that was most despicable was her to continue this charade about how things are going great and they are so close and she really wants to stay married. 

[Crazy Bird Lady]

3 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Ha ha .. Me and mine also, but in the Poconos.  Same scenario.  Large round table, same couples every day, activities.  We all made a pact to meet together again in ten years, but it never happened.  I often think of that time also and wonder if they all are still together.  Good times.

Ever heard of a little kosher bungalow place called "Sunny Oaks?"

[MV713]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:46 PM, Gem 10 said:

Too bad someone can't bring in a body language expert to watch Molly explaining herself.  Molly is two people.  She's the sweet, innocent little girl one minute, and the next minute turns into a vicious attacking liar.  Her facial expressions told it all when the video came out.  She immediately said she was going home.  Good riddance to bad rubbage.

Thanks MV713.  I turned my captions on and heard Jepthe nice n clear .. Jon'S video also.

I pretty much watch every show with it on - you'd be amazed at what you miss!  Esp shows like GOT, Outlander, Vanderpump, RHONJ, etc...

[Gem 10]

6 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Ever heard of a little kosher bungalow place called "Sunny Oaks?"

Edited April 13, 2018 by Gem 10

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, MV713 said:

I pretty much watch every show with it on - you'd be amazed at what you miss!  Esp shows like GOT, Outlander, Vanderpump, RHONJ, etc...

That is exactly why I stopped watching the outlander as the scenery was so dark and I couldn't understand what they were saying.  Captions never entered my mind.

[Gem 10]

10 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

What "same page" could Molly possibly be hoping for?  That they both think Jon is disgusting?  

Frankly, other than a monetary incentive, I don't know why they would even bother with Decision Day.  Molly and Jon are one couple who if they said they were going to stay together for whatever jacked up reason, the "experts" should throw up an intervention and forbid it.   I'm really hoping that Jon unloads on her while they're sitting on the couch - -she totally deserves it.

 Wish they had a "reunion" like Bravo has with the Housewives.  Then they would have to explain themselves and answer questions about everything.

I absolutely hate the scene of Molly and Jon on the roller coaster.  It's actually the first time that she is enjoying herself to the fullest and is genuinely happy and laughing.  Otherwise, she had that "bitch" face going on when with Jon.

[jpagan05]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:39 PM, Yeah No said:

I don't know what Dr. Jessica was talking about in the beginning of that segment before she saw the video.  She made some comment about Jon not being emotionally mature enough for Molly - I wonder if after seeing the video and having her head turned around 180 degrees she would still say that or whether she would reverse that and say that about Molly instead.  I still don't understand what was so wrong with Jon.  I don't think he was putting on an act and this stuff about him always joking around looks to me like surface stuff because he's obviously a very thoughtful individual.  He doesn't strike me as shallow or covering for being an immature douche.  People usually give themselves away in one way or another and he has been remarkably consistent.  So I don't buy all of that and this episode only confirms what I've been thinking all along about Jon and Molly.  

 

On 4/11/2018 at 2:43 AM, Booger666 said:

I think she and the other experts were believing Molly’s lies over Jon’s truths for the past 6 weeks and made bad assumptions.  Before the tape the expert was buying Molly’s lie of “I don’t know why Jon gets mad like he does, we were in a loud bar and I couldn’t hear him is all”.  Molly has been painting everything to be Jon’s fault to the experts.  I’m glad he did the tape and was finally believed.  I got the sense the tape was much, much worse than we were shown. I’d love to see the unedited tape, but understand that we won’t.

Yes, I agree about the expert's assumptions before the video. Jon is an immature goofball imo. Neither Jon nor Molly is my cup of tea physically (or in any way).  But if Molly was being so awful behind the scenes, why does Jon talk about "their physical relationship not being are far along as he had hoped" every freaking time he's on camera? So he still wanted to fuck her even though she constantly berated and mentally abused him? I'm not defending Molly or her actions but I'm guessing there's a lot more going on there that we don't know.

On 4/11/2018 at 3:14 AM, gonecrackers said:

I loved scruffy puppy, & realize that was no surprise to Shawniece. I just hope production didn't dig her out of a shelter somewhere & intend to put her back when filming is over. It's like they needed to one up the A&A snail family with a pupper. Hopefully she won't be a casualty if they do the one year divorce thing.

Me too! I thought, "why on earth would they get a puppy one week before decision day?" I'm hoping that means they have already decided to stay together. If not, dibs on Keke!

[silverspoons]

9 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

          Cove Haven for us.  And, I didn't go in the champagne glass bath for two ?.

I went to Cove Haven's sister resort Brookdale (we were allowed to go to Cove Haven to skate). I was so sad to see it is now sold and abandon. I brought my kids back years later because it had so much to do included. 

Didn't Jason and Courtney go to one of the Pochno's resorts for their honeymoon? I could have almost anywhere on my honeymoon but the Poconos even though some say cheesy had it all from indoor ice skating to archery to zip lines to paddleboats and pacman and not too much travel. Maybe if Ryan and Jackie had gone to a place like this they could have found a hobby they both liked. I think now another matching criteria has to be hobbies. Ryan has too many and Jackie doesn't seem to have any. Forgetting about his personality issues, Ryan needed a match that had the same amount of hobbies even if different like weekly scrapbooking/crafts, tennis nights, a marathon runner that trains daily. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by silverspoons

[Gem 10]

9 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I went to Cove Haven's sister resort Brookdale (we were allowed to go to Cove Haven to skate). I was so sad to see it is now sold and abandon. I brought my kids back years later because it had so much to do included. 

Didn't Jason and Courtney go to one of the Pochno's resorts for their honeymoon? I could have almost anywhere on my honeymoon but the Poconos even though some say cheesy had it all from indoor ice skating to archery to zip lines to paddleboats and pacman and not too much travel. Maybe if Ryan and Jackie had gone to a place like this they could have found a hobby they both liked. I think now another matching criteria has to be hobbies. Ryan has too many and Jackie doesn't seem to have any. Forgetting about his personality issues, Ryan needed a match that had the same amount of hobbies even if different like weekly scrapbooking/crafts, tennis nights, a marathon runner that trains daily. 

You too, huh?  We road thru a couple of years ago and everything changed.  Broken down everywhere and town never refurbished.  Then, many moons ago, it was quaint, October leaves falling .. Beautiful in every way.  Perfect honeymoon.  ?

[Crazy Bird Lady]

15 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I think now another matching criteria has to be hobbies. Ryan has too many and Jackie doesn't seem to have any. Forgetting about his personality issues, Ryan needed a match that had the same amount of hobbies even if different like weekly scrapbooking/crafts, tennis nights, a marathon runner that trains daily. 

 

I'm gonna get flamed for saying this, but: Ryan was pretty much paired with exactly the wrong person for him. Ryan is always on the go, either working or doing some sort of sports or partying. Jaqui... well, I don't really know what she does, besides talk, and dream of travelling to foreign lands. Clearly, Ryan is not the kind of person who likes to sit around and 'chat' about his feelings. That would be a problem even if they could resolve Ryan's drinking and the "gypsy soul" thing.

(By the way, "having a gypsy soul" can be a real thing - my youngest daughter calls herself a "gypsy," works on a cruise line and/or finds a job at wherever she happens to be in port -- and she enjoys her free lifestyle).

Honestly, I don't see a "gypsy soul" personality in Jaqui, but it's crystal clear that experiencing life in another country is on her bucket list, and it probably won't ever be on Ryan's. As one of the other wives said to her at some point: Jaqui probably won't ever be happy and fulfilled without having that experience. So, even if Ryan weren't such a jerk, those two people would still be a terrible match!

Edited April 14, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[crazychicken]

59 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I'm gonna get flamed for saying this, but: Ryan was pretty much paired with exactly the wrong person for him. Ryan is always on the go, either working or doing some sort of sports or partying. Jaqui... well, I don't really know what she does, besides talk, and dream of travelling to foreign lands. Clearly, Ryan is not the kind of person who likes to sit around and 'chat' about his feelings. That would be a problem even if they could resolve Ryan's drinking and the "gypsy soul" thing.

That's the weird thing from the show you would think think that she just sits around and mopes but she plays soccer, runs marathon and is quite active. Now that the experiment is over she travels a fair bit as well just through the USA but she does seem quite busy. I assume she freed up time to get to know her husband assuming that he would do the same so they had time to get to know each other.

[humbleopinion]

Jackie's story line is she is at home waiting for him to come home after his shift at the fire station but went drinking with the boys instead of coming home to her or Ryan is at paint ball team practice/tourneys, working weekend construction, at his paintball park and performing landlord responsibilities.

He has shown her that in their 6 week marriage than if there is a party or group of people going out and she doesn't have anything planned then he will go out... he doesn't need to spend time with her to get to know her...she's his wife so she'll be home keeping the sheets warm...done deal, for better or worse...

Ugh, I sound like Ryan repeating his vows to her...so cheesy...

[janerazor]

Here's what bugs me about Jon though. He's been ranty/pissy all season about not getting to have sex with Molly. My guess is that he's used to having women drop their panties for him left and right, and here's his wife not giving it up, on national television, no less. His attitude just feels so ugly and entitled to me. As good-looking as he is, I would be turned off as well. But here's the kicker. So if Molly has been this negative toward him this whole time as the recording showed, then what has been motivating him to keep on pursuing sex with Molly? That motivation certainly wouldn't be because he truly liked and enjoyed her as a person. It would have to be coming from a place of "You owe me sex, woman, and how dare you pretend you have autonomy over your body." And that feels predatory to me.

 

I really appreciated the moment when Jepthe understood that his lack of communication wasn't fair to Shawniece. I'm not sure if in that second he realized that he should change or if he realized that they simply weren't ever going to work as a couple, that neither one was/is "wrong," per se, in what they needed or could provide, but that they sadly weren't compatible.

[Gem 10]

 These three couples got married sight unseen.  They found out that for different reasons they are not compatible.  The normal way to get married would be to meet first, date for awhile, get to know one another, then get married.  I think if these couples went in that direction, they all wouldn't have lasted anyway.  Shawnice, although is nice and warm hearted, is very needy and clingy.  Jepthe would tire of that and split.  Jaclyn would dump Ryan because of his drinking and going out.  Jon would eventually divorce Molly after the sex wore off as she is mean and be unable to be adventuress and go on vacation all the time.  I don't think these couples would have made it either way, knowing or not knowing each other.  I haven't proof read this post as I am half sleeping, and it's probably fucked up, but I guess you all get my drift.  Nightly nite.   Oh, and altho Shawnice is adorable, sweet and loving, she is too "smothering".  Jepthe is not used to that.  She should just let him be and give him some space as we all need space here and there.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Gem 10

[Crazy Bird Lady]

On 4/14/2018 at 3:10 PM, janerazor said:

Here's what bugs me about Jon though. He's been ranty/pissy all season about not getting to have sex with Molly. My guess is that he's used to having women drop their panties for him left and right, and here's his wife not giving it up, on national television, no less. His attitude just feels so ugly and entitled to me. As good-looking as he is, I would be turned off as well. But here's the kicker. So if Molly has been this negative toward him this whole time as the recording showed, then what has been motivating him to keep on pursuing sex with Molly? That motivation certainly wouldn't be because he truly liked and enjoyed her as a person. It would have to be coming from a place of "You owe me sex, woman, and how dare you pretend you have autonomy over your body." And that feels predatory to me.

I have no idea what generation Zanerazor is from, but (according to my adult children) there are pretty much 2 separate sets of rules for sex while dating (er... unless you're into the uber-Puritan 'courtship' concept). If you're deeply religious and conservative, you *might* decide to save the actual act of penetration until you're officially *engaged*. 

Otherwise, it's pretty much "only kissing on the first date, unless all you want is a hook-up," and (this one varies)"the second date you can get a little more into it, assuming you're 'into' the person you're with --but don't go all the way". By the third date --IF there's a third date-- there aren't really any rules, and the guy may not want a 4th date if you haven't had sex yet, (and/or he may be "friend zoned" by the girl).  

(Of course, there are individual variations on these 'rules'.) 

But if you're already married, it seems like the honeymoon would at least count as dates one, two, and three. So, what happens when the honeymoon is over and sex is still out of the question? At the very least, no sex weeks after the honeymoon is sure to cause confusion, frustration, and (eventually) anger --no matter how many times the woman tells the therapist that their 'marriage' is going great and that attraction 'can still grow'. Jon was getting mixed and confusing messages, hot and cold. He had given up his job and his apartment for this so-called  'marriage'.

But, it appears Molly was getting bolder and cruder about telling Jon how un-attracted to him she really was (whenever the cameras were gone)! Jon still hung in there, for whatever reason, although you could tell he was just going through the motions --until finally, he'd had enough. 

I certainly don't see that as 'predatory' or 'creepy' on Jon's part. I do see it as foolish -- he should have had that confrontation a couple of weeks earlier.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[DangerousMinds]

Where on earth did these dating rules come from? I've been around and they are new to me!

[Gem 10]

46 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Where on earth did these dating rules come from? I've been around and they are new to me!

Me too.  All these rules are confusing.  Either you do it or you don't.  Very simple.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

52 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Me too.  All these rules are confusing.  Either you do it or you don't.  Very simple.

If you're married and you don't, it's not simple at all. Obviously. It's not like this is the first sexless couple on MAFS, and it's not like this is the first time both of them have hung in there for a long time anyway. Clearly, a lot of that has to do with the show itself... and with the expectations for marriage that the people involved had. 

Arranged marriage is nothing new. It's centuries, probably mellenia old. What is new, is the belief that arranged marriage between adults shouldn't necessarily involve sex, at least in the beginning. [In past centuries, once "the heir and the spare" had been provided, couples who didn't get along often took lovers but, of course, they stayed married. They didn't even have to be all that secretive about it, at least not at home, but they did have to put up a front of still being a married couple in public.]

Edited April 15, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Jack Sampson]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Where on earth did these dating rules come from? I've been around and they are new to me!

They've been around as long as I can remember.

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Me too.  All these rules are confusing.  Either you do it or you don't.  Very simple.

It's not simple at all.  Guys have a tendency to waste a LOT of time trying to have sex with a woman who's NEVER going to let it happen.  The rules exist to keep him from doing that.  If nothing has happened by the 3rd date, there's less than a 3% chance that anything will ever happen...that's just science.

29 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

If you're married and you don't, it's not simple at all.

That's the rub.  It's not like you can just ghost a wife and be done with it.  Even on this show it's a "real and legal marriage".  Even worse problem is if a girl like Molly keeps up an act for a few years, then there might be kids involved and a divorce could equal financial suicide. 

[Aethera]

Reminder: don't post spoilers! They ruin other people's enjoyment of the show.

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

If you're married and you don't, it's not simple at all. Obviously. It's not like this is the first sexless couple on MAFS, and it's not like this is the first time both of them have hung in there for a long time anyway. Clearly, a lot of that has to do with the show itself... and with the expectations for marriage that the people involved had. 

Arranged marriage is nothing new. It's centuries, probably mellenia old. What is new, is the belief that arranged marriage between adults shouldn't necessarily involve sex, at least in the beginning. [In past centuries, once "the heir and the spare" had been provided, couples who didn't get along often took lovers but, of course, they stayed married. They didn't even have to be all that secretive about it, at least not at home, but they did have to put up a front of still being a married couple in public.]

I got married, and I didn't for over two weeks, it was simple and I wasn't on the show.  And, I am happily married for a very long time and I really don't know what you are talking about.

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

They've been around as long as I can remember.

It's not simple at all.  Guys have a tendency to waste a LOT of time trying to have sex with a woman who's NEVER going to let it happen.  The rules exist to keep him from doing that.  If nothing has happened by the 3rd date, there's less than a 3% chance that anything will ever happen...that's just science.

That's the rub.  It's not like you can just ghost a wife and be done with it.  Even on this show it's a "real and legal marriage".  Even worse problem is if a girl like Molly keeps up an act for a few years, then there might be kids involved and a divorce could equal financial suicide. 

Whaaaat?  Are you saying if a woman doesn't have sex by the third date science says it will never happen?   In what world are you living in ... Fantasy world?   There are no rules.  It's a personal choice.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Gem 10

[rab01]

I don't know about a "rule" but the idea that third date is often about whether a couple is going to have sex or break up is not new, it was enough of a cliche that they made a movie with that as the central premise 30 years ago (an extremely mediocre Martin Short movie).  

As for Jon and Molly, I don't think that Jon was telling the therapist that Molly is horrible. I think he was trying to explain that off-camera Molly was showing that she had an issue with him, not intimacy generally. He was trying to get to an honest discussion, rather than superficial platitudes/lies. 

Also, I'm on Jon's side without thinking that Molly has to be a villain (other than her mock-crying face in the video).  There is really no way she could say "I'm not into you that way and your gentle pushiness makes me less into you" without that being a shitty thing to do to Jon on TV. In real life, it can be respectful conversation, they can date not exclusively, and decide at their own pace.  Here, it's all recorded and there is no way that Jon's ego was totally fine with being "that" guy.  

[Jack Sampson]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Whaaaat?  Are you saying if a woman doesn't have sex by the third date science says it will never happen?   In what world are you living in ... Fantasy world?   There are no rules.  It's a personal choice.

I'm saying it's mostly likely not going to happen.  And, therefore, it's probably a waste of time to pursue it further.

[scruffy73]

59 minutes ago, rab01 said:

I don't know about a "rule" but the idea that third date is often about whether a couple is going to have sex or break up is not new, it was enough of a cliche that they made a movie with that as the central premise 30 years ago (an extremely mediocre Martin Short movie).  

As for Jon and Molly, I don't think that Jon was telling the therapist that Molly is horrible. I think he was trying to explain that off-camera Molly was showing that she had an issue with him, not intimacy generally. He was trying to get to an honest discussion, rather than superficial platitudes/lies. 

Also, I'm on Jon's side without thinking that Molly has to be a villain (other than her mock-crying face in the video).  There is really no way she could say "I'm not into you that way and your gentle pushiness makes me less into you" without that being a shitty thing to do to Jon on TV. In real life, it can be respectful conversation, they can date not exclusively, and decide at their own pace.  Here, it's all recorded and there is no way that Jon's ego was totally fine with being "that" guy.  

I think she absolutely could have said to Jon that she was not into him physically without looking like an ass on tv. He isn’t owed sex but he deserves respect and honesty. If she had any respect for him she could have given him that out and given him the option of staying in the experiment as friends enjoying each other’s company - since they were 99% compatible - or call it all the way off. If he decided to dip because there was no hope for sex then that is all on him at that point.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, scruffy73 said:

I think she absolutely could have said to Jon that she was not into him physically without looking like an ass on tv. He isn’t owed sex but he deserves respect and honesty. If she had any respect for him she could have given him that out and given him the option of staying in the experiment as friends enjoying each other’s company - since they were 99% compatible - or call it all the way off. If he decided to dip because there was no hope for sex then that is all on him at that point.

I kinda agree with you, Scruffy, but I kinda agree with Rab01, too.

Molly keeping up a charade that they're doing great as a couple in public, telling Jon in front of cameras that "attraction can grow" -- combined with  her insincere attempts to touch or kiss him  (even though Jon knew he was forbidden to do the same), apparently gave Jon the impression that something romantic/sexual might actually develop as long as he didn't try to push her. Molly really was giving him mixed signals, even if she thought he understood it was all just a fake act for the cameras and the experts. Clearly, no-one watching on TV was really buying into that "99% compatible stuff, but the so-called "experts" were getting all their feedback from Molly. Jon was afraid of rocking the boat and probably also too embarassed to tell them "That's not true! Molly and I don't get along very well at all! I have to stay silent and never touch her, or she'll really go off on me!"

Should Jon have spoken up sooner? Absolutely. Would the 'experts' have believed him, instead of Molly? Good question...  But either way, he should have bailed at least by the 5th week.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

5 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I got married, and I didn't for over two weeks, it was simple and I wasn't on the show.  And, I am happily married for a very long time and I really don't know what you are talking about.

Congratulations on your happy marriage.

[crazychicken]

Something I caught during my re watching the episodes was what Molly said after the threesome fight the next day she said that is was good that Jon is like her and does not bring up things that are said during a fight. I may be stretching but maybe that is why she is so butthurt by Jon showing Dr Jessica the video, my husbands family is the same no matter how dirty you get during a fight it is all swept under the rug and never mentioned again. They genuinely do not think that you are responsible for any words said in anger and as long as they project a good image in public then all is good in the world.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

7 minutes ago, crazychicken said:

Something I caught during my re watching the episodes was what Molly said after the threesome fight the next day she said that is was good that Jon is like her and does not bring up things that are said during a fight. I may be stretching but maybe that is why she is so butthurt by Jon showing Dr Jessica the video, my husbands family is the same no matter how dirty you get during a fight it is all swept under the rug and never mentioned again. They genuinely do not think that you are responsible for any words said in anger and as long as they project a good image in public then all is good in the world.

That must be an awful way to live. All the painful things that are said must be buried inside them, festering like wounds that can never heal.

[Jack Sampson]

22 minutes ago, crazychicken said:

Something I caught during my re watching the episodes was what Molly said after the threesome fight the next day she said that is was good that Jon is like her and does not bring up things that are said during a fight. I may be stretching but maybe that is why she is so butthurt by Jon showing Dr Jessica the video, my husbands family is the same no matter how dirty you get during a fight it is all swept under the rug and never mentioned again. They genuinely do not think that you are responsible for any words said in anger and as long as they project a good image in public then all is good in the world.

That's Molly trying to shame Jon into not saying anything about the fight.  Guarantee that if Jon said anything, she'd have no problem bringing it up.

I do commend her manipulation skillz. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:28 PM, Gem 10 said:

          Cove Haven for us.  And, I didn't go in the champagne glass bath for two ?.

When I had been looking on the website about the three Poconos "resorts", I kept wondering why there were no photos of the exterior, like there are for hotels.  Once we arrived at Cove Haven (last year), I figured out why.  It looks really run down, and old.  However, we had a great time, because neither my husband nor I had ever tried archery (well, maybe long ago in summer camp) or bocce ball, and I hadn't played shuffleboard.  We also had fun with basketball and horseshoes.  The room was exactly what you'd think from looking at the website, and that was actually fun.

6 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

I'm saying it's mostly likely not going to happen.  And, therefore, it's probably a waste of time to pursue it further.

From all the comments about this, the one thing that appears to be missing is having the two people actually talk about it!  I am not a third-date type of gal, but my now-husband and I talked about the timing, he was willing to be patient, and it all worked out just fine!  I get the sense that what is frustrating for Jon, is that Molly talks about wanting more time for things to develop, but she is apparently also not willing to take the baby steps (holding hands while walking around, kissing, making out) that would be needed to build for her to having sex later.  I guess now we know that she never intended for any of that to happen, but Jon didn't know that while he was in it.     

[Crazy Bird Lady]

7 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

From all the comments about this, the one thing that appears to be missing is having the two people actually talk about it!  I am not a third-date type of gal, but my now-husband and I talked about the timing, he was willing to be patient, and it all worked out just fine!  I get the sense that what is frustrating for Jon, is that Molly talks about wanting more time for things to develop, but she is apparently also not willing to take the baby steps (holding hands while walking around, kissing, making out) that would be needed to build for her to having sex later.  I guess now we know that she never intended for any of that to happen, but Jon didn't know that while he was in it.     

I agree. The difference between you and Molly is that when you talked to your now-husband about the timing and he was willing to be patient, you were both sincere. I think that's exactly what Jon thought he was trying to do for those first weeks, to be patient and wait for romance to grow and develop naturally. 

Of course, the difference between you two and Jon and Molly is the sincerity. 

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

When I had been looking on the website about the three Poconos "resorts", I kept wondering why there were no photos of the exterior, like there are for hotels.  Once we arrived at Cove Haven (last year), I figured out why.  It looks really run down, and old.  However, we had a great time, because neither my husband nor I had ever tried archery (well, maybe long ago in summer camp) or bocce ball, and I hadn't played shuffleboard.  We also had fun with basketball and horseshoes.  The room was exactly what you'd think from looking at the website, and that was actually fun.

From all the comments about this, the one thing that appears to be missing is having the two people actually talk about it!  I am not a third-date type of gal, but my now-husband and I talked about the timing, he was willing to be patient, and it all worked out just fine!  I get the sense that what is frustrating for Jon, is that Molly talks about wanting more time for things to develop, but she is apparently also not willing to take the baby steps (holding hands while walking around, kissing, making out) that would be needed to build for her to having sex later.  I guess now we know that she never intended for any of that to happen, but Jon didn't know that while he was in it.     

So happy about your post.  We also didn't " jump in the sack" and my husband also was understanding.  Plenty of parking and sparking tho, and that was fine, no problem.  Glad you had a good time.  As long as you are together, you make it good.  Think we will take a ride there this summer for old times sake.   P.s.  Molly never wanted to get to know Jon for some reason.  She was determined to not like him from the beginning.  I think she will have trouble with every guy she meets.  She is so full of herself and thinks she deserves the big prize in a man.  She has to work on her attitude.  The years will go by, and she will be left with nothing.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Gem 10

[scruffy73]

13 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I kinda agree with you, Scruffy, but I kinda agree with Rab01, too.

Molly keeping up a charade that they're doing great as a couple in public, telling Jon in front of cameras that "attraction can grow" -- combined with  her insincere attempts to touch or kiss him  (even though Jon knew he was forbidden to do the same), apparently gave Jon the impression that something romantic/sexual might actually develop as long as he didn't try to push her. Molly really was giving him mixed signals, even if she thought he understood it was all just a fake act for the cameras and the experts. Clearly, no-one watching on TV was really buying into that "99% compatible stuff, but the so-called "experts" were getting all their feedback from Molly. Jon was afraid of rocking the boat and probably also too embarassed to tell them "That's not true! Molly and I don't get along very well at all! I have to stay silent and never touch her, or she'll really go off on me!"

Should Jon have spoken up sooner? Absolutely. Would the 'experts' have believed him, instead of Molly? Good question...  But either way, he should have bailed at least by the 5th week.

We agree. I was saying that if Molly told him  the truth she wouldn’t have looked bad. Or maybe she did and he was holding on to the hope she was telling everyone else she had for them. Or maybe, like you say, he was afraid to rock the boat and not play along. Or maybe... the only thing that would have made this okay is if they were honest and called this quits the day she told him he disgusted her. He should have given her his ass to kiss as he walked out to live with Dawn the cat. I don’t know if they get paid at all much less enough to go through this kind of emotional labor for a bitch.

[Stinamaia]

13 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

That's Molly trying to shame Jon into not saying anything about the fight.  Guarantee that if Jon said anything, she'd have no problem bringing it up.

I do commend her manipulation skillz. 

I also think Molly might have had reason to think the producers would protect her.  The on site producers may have known about some of her ugly behavior and yet never stopped praising her on camera performance, and, of course Molly would have seen production as “the cool guys.”

maybe i just like to think this because I like to think little miss manipulator got manipulated.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, Stinamaia said:

I also think Molly might have had reason to think the producers would protect her.  The on site producers may have known about some of her ugly behavior and yet never stopped praising her on camera performance, and, of course Molly would have seen production as “the cool guys.”

maybe i just like to think this because I like to think little miss manipulator got manipulated.

I don't pretend to have any idea what Molly thinks, but it's crystal clear that the producers of this (and pretty much every other 'reality' show) reward the participants who produce the most drama.

[psychoticstate]

I'm watching Unfiltered right now and Molly is so full of shit.  She's claiming that she has protected Jon from day one, that the video reveal was taken out of context in some way and she didn't blow the whistle to anyone on how Jon had been treating her because it wouldn't be right and she's so above that.  She also said the "you're so disgusting" comment was about him recording her but not capturing everything he had done to her.  Of course she's not addressed about how she said to Jon "you're so fucking disgusting" nor how many times she said it.

Shame on Jamie and Dr. Pepper for letting her puke this shit up like gospel.  Dr. Jessica should have been the guest this week.  I don't think she'd let this slide.

[sasha206]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:24 AM, humbleopinion said:

Went back to see what was Molly's response to the revealing video of her gutting Jon...Molly says to Dr. Jessica ..."he twists and twists my words"...her lying is so automatic and seamless...she continues to blatantly lie, eyes wide open and unblinkingly...

Jon did make himself vulnerable to Molly and she took advantage of his emotional frailties.

Molly always has to be crushing it ...well, she crushed Jon's soul, made him doubt himself, forced him to swallow all his pride and play her waiting game.

Roll the beautiful bar room footage...Molly still stood tall in her deceit..she did not back down until Dr. Jessica rebuked her.

Molly has never been caught lying on such a big stage(basic cable show big)...she always had gotten away with lying before...

I couldn't stand Molly.  She was one boring, full of her self, zero personality woman. However, I did think Dr. J, as a therapist, was way over the top with her and had wondered if she was crushing on Jon.   If I had someone in my face with a video camera so he could bust me to the counselor, I'd probably tell him he is a disgusting piece of shit.  

And then I did a search on the where is now he now...and...(I'm sure this is not news to anyone who watched MAFs, I'm just catching up!)

 

Turns out she's unprofessional.  Why would anyone go to her counseling practice after this if she has no qualms getting involved with someone who she counseled.

 

[humbleopinion]

Molly lied, very shrewd in shaming an emasculated Jon to go along with her charade until it blew up at the bar.

In contrast, Season 10’s Michael is an idiot liar who was caught lying on the plane to His honeymoon.

Meka is a stronger person than Jon and a force to be reckoned with, much to the audience’s delight but not Michael’s.

For most part, regular posters are happy for Jon who deserved better than that beyotch Molly.

You are free to judge if the Dr. breached any ethics.

He, Jessica and her kids seem very happy and that’s good enough for me because...I love...love! 

 

[gonecrackers]

What's with "Dr." Mermaid up there...  hope she's not "counseling" anyone anymore, or, watch out Jon.