S03.E17: Guest Starring John Noble

[scarynikki12]

Quote

With the timeline barely stable, the Legends must tackle two anachronisms at the same time to try and keep Mallus at bay.

 

[scarynikki12]

Sara needs to seek advice from the people they save more often. Her scene with Barack  was a hoot. 

Ray’s such an endearing ball of sunshine. He apologized to the bat for using its spleen! And brought the accidental innuendo in fine form. 

Darhk’s disbelief at Ray’s various plans makes his return this season worth it. Now I’m sorry they haven’t shared more scenes together. 

The John Noble connection was clever and I loved him mocking the dialogue that Ray wrote. 

Ok Little Grodd is so cute! Too bad that couldn’t be a regular thing. 

With the reveal that current Ava is Number 12 Ava, I’m wondering if we were seeing one or more of the earlier versions in earlier episodes. That would explain why her interest in Sara, and Sara’s in her, seemed like a switch was flipped. Maybe the Viking episode was everyone’s introduction to 12 Ava? 

Whelp, Mallus is free and Nora still died. Good job there Darhk. 

[Primal Slayer]

Why are they doing Obama? He wasn't the President in this verse....At least not during his original time frame.

I'm going to be so disappointed that Damien Darhk & Black Siren will never meet. And Damien is the last person I want to see go soft. But if he can almost go to the good side....Black Siren shouldn't be an issue for MG. 

I hate when they do this over the topness. It just takes my enjoyment out of it.

Nate you are real dumb. REAL DUMB. She is from the past....knowing her future would put your future in jeopardy. I just hate how they keep giving him this airheaded frat boy mentality.

Even with Wally on this show..he is still treated horribly. If you don't want to find a way to make him work then why did you add him to this show? 

I wonder if Amaya's future is really changed because if it is then Arrow would have to be drastically different once Mari came on the scene but to allow her to save her entire tribe and we can't even save 1 person (LL)....don't keep twisting the knife Arrowverse.

[Sakura12]

Sara getting advice from Obama and Darkh. I did like that she got stab in the back. Although why they are not killing him is still just for plot or the actor. Shows really need to learn to let go even if they love the actor. 

Did they save Amaya's village? Are they going to have put it back and erase her memory?

The show went meta with Mallus sounding like John Noble. 

Yeah, I'm wondering if we met Ava 11 in the beginning then met Ava 12 in the Viking episode. But man is Rip cold hearted telling her it's great that she's a replaceable. 

[scarynikki12]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Why are they doing Obama? He wasn't the President in this verse....At least not during his original time frame.

They didn't say when he was president in the Arrowverse.  Maybe he held the office from 2001-2009 and, therefore, was out of office by the time Arrow started? 

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Nate you are real dumb. REAL DUMB. She is from the past....knowing her future would put your future in jeopardy. I just hate how they keep giving him this airheaded frat boy mentality.

Amen.

[shantown]

About five minutes before it happened I thought, “Damien is going to screw them over and I’m going to be mad.” And then five minutes later Damien screwed them over. And I was mad. 

Still hoping that since they saved the village though that Kuasa survived. 

[cambridgeguy]

Hey Wally, if you're really against this plan then use your powers to just zip Amaya and Nate back to the Waverider.  It's not the most respectful thing to do but if you think they're going to break history then it's probably worth the hurt feelings.

That being said, Flashpoint is the reason Wally has powers in the first place.  I'm willing to bet that deep down he's OK with whatever collateral damage might have been caused.

[johntfs]

It was pretty cool to hear John Noble speaking in his natural Australian accent.  They did a pretty good job on Maise's old person makeup, too.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm thrilled I got the channel back on my TV to watch this live.

Yeah, Obama was not the President in this Arrowverse. However, they technically never mention that Obama was the President; for all we know, he was some other important figure. At the very least, not mentioning him being the President helped at least handwave the idea. Plus, Barack's scene with Sara was pretty entertaining, and it was only for two scenes. 

Thank god Damien actually betrayed the Legends. I was going to be pissed if this was going to be some redemption arc for him. I was not impressed with his advice to Sara, mostly because I was dreading this be some big redemption arc for him. At least I can see him sacrificing himself to defeat Mallus now that Nora is likely dead. I was partially hoping Damien would actually sacrifice himself for Nora, as I like Courtney Ford, but eh, if Nora's dead, then Damien can die too. At least, that's the hope.

So....they did save Amaya's village, after all? So...does that mean her future has changed, thus causing everything to change? Or will Amaya fix history after Mallus is defeated and go back to Zambezi? It WILL be interesting to see how things go with Amaya for the finale and what decision she decides to make. I assume she'll decide to go to Zambezi, though now Nate has the option of going with her. 

It was nice for Wally to point out the mess that was Flashpoint, although Flashpoint is the reason for his powers so it's hard to say how hypocritical he's being. Though, yeah, this show is also showing how powerful speedsters can be and how shows NEED to continue to dumb them down or depower them in order to have them not solve every single problem. 

Oh, Rip. TWELVE? You've gone through twelve Avas? That really sucks for Ava to hear, which is why I understand her leaving Sara this time. Also, I love Ava essentially firing Rip. He really does deserve it. Though, can I say that Rip being being the comms actually kind of worked for me? He does less damage when given little to do besides keep an eye on the anachronisms. 

I will say John Noble's physical cameo was pure genius. Way to utilize your voice actors, show. 

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So....they did save Amaya's village, after all? So...does that mean her future has changed, thus causing everything to change? Or will Amaya fix history after Mallus is defeated and go back to Zambezi? It WILL be interesting to see how things go with Amaya for the finale and what decision she decides to make. I assume she'll decide to go to Zambezi, though now Nate has the option of going with her. 

I hope they realize how messy this has all gotten if they do try to set their wrong right lol because now they have to once again deal with a "past" version of themselves just to set histroy back on the right path.

[tennisgurl]

I wonder if Ava being the 12th Ava is a reference to the classic Twilight Zone episode "Number 12 Looks Just Like You.", which was also an episode about identity and the loss of it. I know I made jokes about Ava getting a personality transplant after the Beebo episode, but now I wonder if that was just Ava 11, and Ava 12 is the one who likes Sara and wearing her hair down sometimes. Rip saying that shes great because shes replaceable was cold, but it was certainly fitting for this version of Rip. Wouldn't surprise me if most of the time agents were robots or clones or anachronisms or something. I love the guy, but Rip has never been one to put lives of his people ahead of the mission, if he sees it as the only way. 

It feels like this episode exists because the writers had a few more ideas for episodes, but ran out of time, so decided to throw everything into one last episode before the season finale. The Barry stuff was weird (doing recent stuff on this show is always a bit...hit and miss) but it was also kind of funny, and he and Sara were weirdly funny together. Plus, I feel like they had some kind of bet going with the Flash writers that they could work the line "Make America Grodd again" into an episode. 

Not as much John Noble as I wanted, but what we got was delightfully meta and hilarious. Getting back into the old LoTR costume must have been a blast for John Noble, and he seemed to be having a great time in his whole scene. "Tell Peter Jackson no more chicken!" Thats classic Legends. Get the actor who plays Mallus to pretend to be Mallus while pretending to be a PA on LoTR. Thats classic Legends. Weird, but actually makes sense. 

I hope the village got saved. Nate and Amaya have always been kind of a weird pairing to me that always had an experiation date (although I am increasingly thinking that Nate will die next week, and Amaya will realize shes pregnant with their kid, so she heads back home or something like that), but I have grown kind of fond of them. 

Ray and his goofy bubbly plans are still hilarious, and Ray and Damien are a weirdly fun pairing, especially as Damien keeps making fun of Rays wacky plans. Although, Damien betraying them was pretty freaking obvious from day one. At least Sara got to stab him in that back. That must have been nice for her at least. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by tennisgurl

[johntfs]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Although, Damien betraying them was pretty freaking obvious from day one. At least Sara got to stab him in that back. That must have been nice for her at least. 

The interesting part was that it seemed like he only betrayed them because Mallus used the apparition of Nora to manipulate him.  I'll bet Sara figured that out and that's why she didn't just flat-out kill him.  Next week looks crazy.  I am going to miss the hell out of this show.  Next fall can't come soon enough.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Whelp, Mallus is free and Nora still died. Good job there Darhk

OMG, Damien and Barry need to start a support group.

Also, Neal McDonough is amazing. It's no wonder both Marvel and DC want him.

Edited April 3, 2018 by bettername2come

[tennisgurl]

17 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Next fall can't come soon enough.

100% Yes. I am going to miss this show so much, I am actually concerned about going into withdrawals. I need my Legends fix desperately, I dont know if I can wait until Fall! Its just too long a wait, I will need to find my own Waverider to skip ahead. Beebo help us all. 

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

They didn't say when he was president in the Arrowverse.  Maybe he held the office from 2001-2009 and, therefore, was out of office by the time Arrow started? 

Tommy actually mentions a Black president, presumably Obama, being something new that happened while Oliver was on the island in the pilot of Arrow. So Obama could have elected in 2008 and either lost in 2012 or left office for some other reason with the guy who died in Invasion maybe having been his VP.

Or chalk it up to Flashpoint.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

 

With the reveal that current Ava is Number 12 Ava, I’m wondering if we were seeing one or more of the earlier versions in earlier episodes. That would explain why her interest in Sara, and Sara’s in her, seemed like a switch was flipped. Maybe the Viking episode was everyone’s introduction to 12 Ava? 

 

 

Quote

I know I made jokes about Ava getting a personality transplant after the Beebo episode, but now I wonder if that was just Ava 11, and Ava 12 is the one who likes Sara and wearing her hair down sometimes. Rip saying that shes great because shes replaceable was cold, but it was certainly fitting for this version of Rip. Wouldn't surprise me if most of the time agents were robots or clones or anachronisms or something. I love the guy, but Rip has never been one to put lives of his people ahead of the mission, if he sees it as the only way. 

I do think they are going to reveal that while this was the 12th clone, Rip saw that she was special because she was different from the other Ava's.  The other ones were replaceable but she isn't because she was more than just good at following the rules and the proof is Sara falling for her.  I think Rip is probably actually a romantic and that is why he deleted the file.  I really want to find out that 12th Ava was the Beebo Ava.  Then I could actually like this pairing if the earlier Ava could be ignored because of canon.  

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Even with Wally on this show..he is still treated horribly. If you don't want to find a way to make him work then why did you add him to this show? 

I wonder if Amaya's future is really changed because if it is then Arrow would have to be drastically different once Mari came on the scene but to allow her to save her entire tribe and we can't even save 1 person (LL)....don't keep twisting the knife Arrowverse.

1

Wally is not going to get to save the day unless he's the focus of the episode.  But sometimes he WILL be the focus so LoT will have that over his time on The Flash.  In the meantime, Wally's job isn't to be the big damn hero, but the foil and occasionally a plot shortcut and generally entertaining.  And I think he's working well in that position. So I don't think they are treating him poorly.  I love when he's surprised they are going to break the rules.  I thought the line he's trying to walk makes sense and serves his character well.  He was listened to, but there was a swerve.  He wasn't dismissed or told he was wrong, just that they had a different plan.  And next year I'm sure he'll get even more focus.   

I suspect that some aspects of Amaya's future will have to be adhered to, like Mari being sent to the US to be put in a foster home/adopted.  But maybe now that the village isn't destroyed or Kuasi getting left behind, that they can figure out a way to give her back the water totem and also not be evil, lol.  

Amaya and Nate seem doomed and I'm oddly sad about that since i didn't care about them before but I'm liking Nate being so willing to do anything for her.  Even if it's not to his benefit.  And he was turned on by Granny Amaya, lol.  They may have finally won me over only for them to break my heart by separating them.  Unless we can get an Amaya clone so she can be in two places at once?  

I loved Dahrk - I bought into his regrets and I bought into his betrayal.  I loved Barry.  Don't care about his presidency being an anachronism in this universe (Hey, they broke time, I can buy it happened somehow and changed the past and nobody noticed).  The trip to NZ was so fun and meta, especially the comment on the crap writing and the lack of women in LoR.  Just a really fun and packed episode.  

Ray couldn't get the water totem to work.  Wonder if he will later or if he might end up controlling the death totem?  People THOUGHT he'd died, lol.  

[Primal Slayer]

Having 2-3 episodes practically back2back with him getting knocked out so he doesn't do his speedster thing isn't using him well. It isn't about him playing the big damn hero, it's about putting him to some good use. And he is already a character whose not really gotten anything on his first show this year so putting him on a 2nd only for that to continue....it doesn't look great. 

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Having 2-3 episodes practically back2back with him getting knocked out so he doesn't do his speedster thing isn't using him well. It isn't about him playing the big damn hero, it's about putting him to some good use. And he is already a character whose not really gotten anything on his first show this year so putting him on a 2nd only for that to continue....it doesn't look great. 

Wally is more than his powers so I don't care if they knock him out during the fight if he is entertaining the rest of the time.  I feel like on the Flash he was ignored in and out of fights.  

Edited April 3, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

Of course he is more then his powers but if you are going to knock him out every time he tries to help in the fight....don't put him in the fight, have him do something else. It's gotten old real fast.

[kdm07]

I'm like everyone else, I don't want this season to end! What am I gonna do until Season 4 starts? 

- Sara finally got to stab Damian. Too bad she didn't outright killed him because I was cheering when I heard that knife go in.

- Can Sara pop in to see Obama for life advice once in awhile? Can that just become a thing? One of the strengths of the show is making something zany seem logical and in step with the rest of the episode; Sara's scenes with Obama did just that. (I miss him too Sara). Same with John Noble being Gandalf and mocking Ray's script was hilarious.

- Nate...ugh! I understand you're in love but every time you're with Amaya your stupid levels rise up to 10. You're supposed to be the big history buff so why would you act like it's no big deal to alter the past in such a drastic way?!

- I'm pretty neutral on Ava as a character but I want Sara to be happy so if Ava makes her happy then I hope this two crazy kids work it out. Also:

- I stand by my Season 2 statement: Rip Hunter is a gigantic dick. It's beyond creepy how he has a timeline filled with Ava clones that he goes into once the old version is disposed of. I'm assuming each time he gets a new version, he alters their personality somewhat which makes even more creepy/sleazy. I'm waiting for the day that Sara's decks him hard, he'll have more than earned it.

Edited April 3, 2018 by kdm07

[Lantern7]

To review: Young Barack Obama has two scenes, one more than he should have. Damien allies himself with the Legends, not bothering to take off his "I WILL TOTALLY BETRAY ALL OF YOU" t-shirt. Grodd is dealt with by getting shrunk and stuffed in a jar. Also, he says, "Time to make America Grodd again." Also: “Barrack Obama. It will almost be an honor to kill you.” Mallus transforms Nora into what I guess is his true self: a giant winged creature that's the stuff of CGI nightmares. And Mick just happens to be watching a LOTR movie, they see John Noble just so happening sounding like Mallus, and get him to record material for Ray to play inside Nora's ear. Gideon probably could've replicated his voice, but why the fuck shouldn't Ray sneak onto the set of LOTR and harrass John Noble? The funny thing about LoT is that you don't have to partake in drugs like Walter Bishop ("my" Noble character), because it gives less than a fuck about not have fun.

This week's dork-off? Damn. On the one hand, Nate wants to play romantic, endangering time itself because he loves Amaya that much. Also, he has zero stealth skills. Oldmaya probably kept her eyes closed as she rolled them back into her head. But Ray is still the positive dope, the guy who makes up songs for coded procedures. Running third is Damien, with his shocked -- SHOCKED!!!! -- expressions of Nora receiving orders from "Mallus." I get the Dark fatigue, and I know this should be it for him as far as Arrowverse goes (excluding whatever alt-Earth hijinks Team Flash conjures up), but he's so fun to watch.

I'm hoping we get a happy ending with Sara and Ava. It's a double-edged sort . . . while Sara is Best Legend for her many skills, hooking her up with Ava means that she wouldn't be all flirty with historical figures. That's not the biggest reason why she's awesome, but it does represent a sizable chunk.

Happy we're getting a fourth season, really hoping we get 22 episodes. Split the season up into two nine-episode chunks, and the rest for one-shot goofy-ass stories.

[Maelstrom]

Random thoughts:

• Considering John Noble has appeared on every tv show in the last several years, this is by far the best use of him. I’m always surprised when I hear him being Aussie, and the LOTR references made me chuckle.
• Nate and Amaya, the stupid, how it burns. UO alert: I’m not the biggest fan of the yearly cast changes on this show but in the name of Beebo can they both just go the hell away? I’m over their bland, annoying romance, and I’m over the two of them screwing up history whenever they feel like it. I like them separately most of the time, but I’m sick of Nate’s frat boy bs and I’m frankly over Amaya’s destiny/split timeline stuff. Stay with the Legends or go back to 1942, but just pick one already!
• Neal McDonough continues to make Darkh far more entertaining than he really has any right to be. He really made me feel sorry for Darkh tonight, especially in his one on one scene with Sara. Also, he and Ray are the dynamic duo I never knew I wanted. Somehow I’m simultaneously annoyed and relieved that he promptly turned on the Legends and screwed them over. How is that?
• Poor Ava! I thought JM did a wonderful job after Rip finally came clean - the play of emotions across her face was rather heartbreaking. I don’t know where they’re going to go with Ava, but I hope she sticks around next season.
• Rip is an ass but I’m always happy to see Arthur Darvill.
• Loved the air holes in tiny Grodd’s jar. Nicely done, prop department. Unfortunately the same can’t be said of Amaya’s old age makeup, yikes. Maybe I’ve watched too many years of Face Off, but it looked more like a burn or deformation makeup instead of old age.
• Good for Wally standing up to Nate and Amaya’s stupidity. I’m really looking forward to seeing a Wally-centric episode next season. He was brought in rather unceremoniously and in the midst of so many dueling plots and arc stories that he’s gotten a bit lost in the shuffle. Hoepefully next season can remedy that.
• Only one episode left in the season? Nooooo!!!

[Lugal]

Wow, I think this show just lapped itself.  The meta was awesome, and we got to see John Noble other than just hearing his voice.  I also liked the nice little touches, like the air holes in Grodd's jar and Nora digging at her ear when "Malus" spoke to her.  I've actually warmed to Ava, and it's cool to see Jes Macallan has job security on the show. 

I can't believe there's only one ep left.

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

With the reveal that current Ava is Number 12 Ava, I’m wondering if we were seeing one or more of the earlier versions in earlier episodes. That would explain why her interest in Sara, and Sara’s in her, seemed like a switch was flipped. Maybe the Viking episode was everyone’s introduction to 12 Ava? 

My view is that episode 5 with the Victorians was our introduction to Ava 12.  Rip got arrested at the end of that episode, so he wouldn't have been able to get another Ava between then and episode 9.  Also, in 5 Ava was a little softer with the Legends and apparently cool with making a deal with Sara to let the Legends keep flying in exchange for Rip.  She still called them idiots, but that could have been based more on their files.  She didn't seem as spiteful with it as she had been.  So, if this Ava had only known the Legends from implanted memories and files, episode 5 is the first time she met them for real.  And maybe, quietly, she thought Sara was hot (which is accurate).  So, maybe having her hair down when contacting the Legends in episode 9 wasn't due to an anachronism.

Of course another take on Ava 12 is that in some Earth's warehouse there's a couple hundred Avas all programmed with slightly different personalities but the same basic background.  Some like Chinese food.  Others don't.  Some are gay.  Some aren't.  Like that.  And when one of them dies/disappears, another one wakes up, gets dressed grabs a Time Beacon, goes to the TB and starts her new life as Ava X+1.  I see a nasty ending where Ava reconciles with Sara and then dies, only for Rip to bring in Ava 13.

[thuganomics85]

First things first: congrats on the renewal, Legends!  It's still crazy to think that the show that started out a bit of a mess and some where even wondering if it would be a one and one has not only survived, but has arguably become the best of the DC CW shows.

Anyway, for the penultimate episode, they sure managed to not only set things up for a crazy endgame, but still managed to go full-blown on the pure insanity.  First, there is the whole "Gorilla Grodd trying to kill college student Barack Obama", which somehow ends up being the thing that they wrap up before the first commercial break.  Nope, instead, the main story is that Damien has finally (seriously, finally!) realized how horrible of a father he has become, and actually agrees to work with the Legends in order to maybe save Nora.  So, there grand plan?  Well, trick Nora into being trapped in the Waverider.  And how they do they do that?  Simple: they realize that Mallus just happens to sound like actor extraordinaire John Noble (because good old Mick is finally getting around to watching The Lord of the Rings trilogy), so they have Ray meet the real John Noble back during the filming (complete with him rocking the Denethor look and actually getting to speak in his normal Aussie accent), and have him record lines, so that Ray can shrink, go inside Nora (not like that, Damien!  Chill the fuck out!), and make her think Mallus is telling her to do so.  Yep, all of this has happened.  I can't believe I just typed all of this.

But like any good Legends episode, nothing works out as its apparently too late to save Nora, so the Legends decide to just let Amaya cause the anomaly by saving he village, which will complete Mallus' transformation, and they can take him out.  But, of course, Damien is Damien and tries to fuck things over by releasing Grodd again, but ends up failing still.  So, now the Legends finding themselves facing off against Mallus in his "true form."  Oh, boy!

We also find out that not only has Rip been wiping Ava's memory, but she's not even his original attempt.  They've apparently gone through 12 freaking Avas, already.  What are you doing, Hunter?  Now Ava's so broken that even Sara telling her she actually loves her isn't enough!

I love that Wally kept bringing up Flashpoint as a reason for why messing with the timeline could be a bad idea.  Even if, ironically, it did give him his powers, he has first hand experience over how that can fuck everything up!

Always great seeing Erica Tazel.  A bit of a minor Justifed reunion with her and Neal McDonough.

I can only imagine how the finale will play out, but I have two predictions: 1) Damien will end up sacrificing himself to save Nora in the end and 2) Beebo will play a significant part, dammit!

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of course he is more then his powers but if you are going to knock him out every time he tries to help in the fight....don't put him in the fight, have him do something else. It's gotten old real fast.

It's pretty much what they did with Superman the first season of the Justice League animated series because he could easily solve any problem by himself. Also the reason they made that version of Flash/Wally West not that bright because if he was smarter he'd use his powers more effectively like Lex Luthor did when he switched bodies with him in one episode.

Man, Rip already went through 11 previous Ava clones? Obviously she was the agent he sent on the most dangerous missions, knowing he could replace her with another one if she was killed. He probably even programmed her to want to volunteer for them too. He's such a jerk.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But like any good Legends episode, nothing works out as its apparently too late to save Nora, so the Legends decide to just let Amaya cause the anomaly by saving he village, which will complete Mallus' transformation, and they can take him out.  But, of course, Damien is Damien and tries to fuck things over by releasing Grodd again, but ends up failing still.  So, now the Legends finding themselves facing off against Mallus in his "true form." 

I don't really get the latter part. If the village being saved is the anomaly that will release Mallus so that he could be defeated, therby saving Nora (hypothetically), why did Damien want to restore the original timeline by destroying the village?

Also, why was Mick using his gun instead of his totem?  Yes, he has more experience with the gun but it still didn't make sense to give him the new firepower only to have him use the old.

Edited April 3, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't really get the latter part. If the village being saved is the anomaly that will release Mallus so that he could be defeated, therby saving Nora (hypothetically), why did Damien want to restore the original timeline by destroying the village?

I thought it was because by stalling he'd get more time to work out a solution - if Mallus had come out then presumably Nora would have died.

While the Legends did have a decent plan - let's release Mallus at a time and place of our choosing - Captain Lance must have been distracted by her epic romance because why wouldn't she make sure Ray and Nate could actually USE the Infinity Stones totems before forcing the issue?  Ray never even got around to activating his.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't really get the latter part. If the village being saved is the anomaly that will release Mallus so that he could be defeated, therby saving Nora (hypothetically), why did Damien want to restore the original timeline by destroying the village?

Also, why was Mick using his gun instead of his totem.  Yes, he has more experience with the gun but it still didn't make sense to give him the new firepower only to have him use the old.

The Mick thing was probably they had more CGI footage of the gun already on standby but it would cost them money more the totem.  So I'm going with Mick just likes all his toys.  Perhaps he saves the fire totem for dinners.  

But you are right.  The thing where Malus uses the totem to create a fake Nora to get Darhk to not go with the Legend's plan and instead save the timeline so Malus doesn't get out can't be what happened because Malus wanted to get out.  Nora must really be around somewhere and tapping into the death totem ghost maker machine.  Or was at least.  I still feel she probably can be saved somehow.  

[CloudySky]

The only thing that could have made this episode better is if Sara actually stabbed Damien through the heart. There's no reason she wouldn't have at that point. She's not a killer anymore but come on, she's still human.

Can anyone be a totem bearer? I thought you had to be born with that ability so what the hell?! Suddenly everyone can? It would have made more sense to find someone in Zambezi or pick up Kuasa from the past or child Kuasa.

The Obama thing played out better than I feared. The actor was pretty good, it didn't take up more time than necessary and was darn funny.

Ava's situation is heartbreaking. I love Rip but wow he can be pretty insensitive. Those Vancouver Ava's were pretty bad at fighting comparatively so does infusing her with a personality help with that or is she really special somehow and that's why she's survived so much longer than the other 11?

Somehow Legends is always able to fit 5 absurd ideas into 1 episode and make it work. Meanwhile other shows spend 3 episodes whining about the same damn issue without taking one step forward.

[Featherhat]

As others have said Obama was presumably President in the pilot of Arrow (when they were supposed to be close to realistic. So since then a non Clinton female President happened, but they don't let that stand in they way of political jokes (see Supergirl where it make seven less sense). The Obama thing was way less cringy than I thought it was going to be. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Featherhat

[benteen]

Another fun, batshit episode from the Legends.

The John Noble thing was really, really clever.  I love that they do stuff like this.

Sara and Darhk worked really well together.

The Ava thing was pretty devastating for the character.  It's understandable she reacted the way that she did.

Amaya is not convincing as an old woman.

[mrspidey]

They literally got a fictional version of the real John Noble, played by the real John Noble, to impersonate another pure fictional character voiced by John Noble. 

These writers are fucking insane. I love it!

Edited April 3, 2018 by mrspidey

[Sakura12]

I don't remember them saying you had to born with the ability to wear the totems. I think some are born for it like Amaya's family line. The death totem works for those who died or been near death I suppose that's why it sort of worked for Elvis. We've seen that all you need to do to activate the totem is do a selfless act. Nora was going to give her life so her father could live, Nate went out to save Amaya and her daughter and Mick wanted to save Sara and the team from Mallus which is why his worked. I think Ray has feelings for Nora and didn't really want Mallus to take over her so his totem didn't work.  

The actor who played Barrack was good in the opening scene he sounded just like him. Then he kind of lost it in his scene with Sara. 

Ava's the 12th Doctor. I'm thinking Rip gave Ava fighting skills that's why she's better then the rest of the clones. Although it makes me think Ava's rise in the Bureau is more because they think she survived every mission when in reality she didn't. She died 11 times in 4 years (hey maybe she is really meant for Sara, they have that in common) and a new one just woke up and went to work.  I also think Rip has a warehouse full of Ava's and they activate when the main one dies. So he doesn't need to go get another one. We know Rip makes tons of backup plans. Maybe this 12th one was able to change her programming unlike the others, she fell in love with Sara and would go along with the Legends plans and that's what makes her special.  I understand now why she's choosing to be the rule follower, it's the only thing she has left that's hers. But we know she'll drop everything once she hears Sara and the Legends are in trouble. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Sakura12

[darkestboy]

The use of John Noble, seeing a younger Obama, Grodd in a jar. Only on this show to be honest.

Damien working and screwing over the Legends was predictable but it absolutely worked and I even felt a tiny bit bad for him. Not that bad as I did smile when Sara stabbed him though.

Mallus's true form is decent enough. Could be better but also could've been a lot worse.

Wally was the voice of reason over Amaya's decision to change her village and family's history but I could see why Nate was so willing to help her nonetheless.

Ava being twelfth in line clone wise, yikes. Rip didn't exactly soften it up there, 8/10

[Advance35]

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I like Nate and Amaya.  He had a great deal of respect for the idea of preserving history but he ended up falling in love.  They are star-crossed and time-crossed.  Maybe it was a full moon but I was honestly touched when Nate was still so drawn to Amaya, even as an old woman.  I truly believe he loves her.

I've always found Amaya VERY likeable and have always felt she is part of the unique cocktail that makes Legends the best cast in the Arrowverse.  I'm not happy at the idea of her not being around anymore.  I didn't like Arrows Vixen enough to care about her being phased out of existence.

[Swellcatt]

I laughed so hard at this episode. When Ray said "Run Barry Run" I was cracking up. I was wondering why Mick was so into watching Lord of the Rings and then boom. How clever!  I enjoyed Damien being so emotional and having that moment with Sara. It does seem a little like they gave him a redemption arc but it makes sense that he and Sara would connect over the League stuff and how it makes you emotionless until you learn to love.  Maybe both Nate and Amaya erase their memories? I can't see how she stays on the show, but I suppose it could still happen! 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Damien assumed that Nora was dead when he "saw her" while wearing the Death Totem.  I felt like saying, "Don't worry; Wally saw Jesse!"

Edited April 3, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[shantown]

I'm sad they didn't have Damien wearing the death totem the same way Sara did - as a classic 00's teen girl choker!

[Princess Lucky]

Such a fun episode.

First of all, Neal McDonough is AMAZING.

I knew Damien would betray the team, but I was sure it'd be this huge, terrible, gleeful betrayal. I thought he'd make a deal with Mallus and double-cross the team, I thought he had a plan all along. I did not anticipate a "betrayal" because of love. I thought Sara would regret letting him in, but I did not anticipate that Sara would willingly spare his life. Because of love.

In my book, Damien has been redeemed. In an unconventional way. Sure, he wanted to kill hundreds of innocents. But he was doing it for his little girl! That's how you believably redeem a villain. I even felt for him when he apologized for killing Laurel. That was a great scene, and it went a long way toward making me understand Sara's decisions later on.

I do think he'll die, though. Nora is gone, he's a better person now (for his standards), and I think he'll die trying to kill Mallus to avenge Nora's death. Which I'm fine with, as long as the show brings back Neal from time to time. He really shone this season. He's a fantastic actor. but the Flarrowverse never gave him that much to do. Until this season of LoT. He's been a delight, and I've loved every minute he has appeared on my screen.

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Amaya and Nate seem doomed and I'm oddly sad about that since i didn't care about them before but I'm liking Nate being so willing to do anything for her.  Even if it's not to his benefit.  And he was turned on by Granny Amaya, lol. 

I, too, have come to really like Nate and Amaya. The way he seemed to still be totallly into Granny Amaya, and the way our Amaya smirked when she was like "you always had a way with her"? Those two are freaks and I love them for it. And I also love that the show has combined that with what appears to be a deep love. Logic tells me they're doomed, but I don't know how it'll happen (will Nate die? Will he stay on the Waverider? I assume Amaya will go back to 1942), so I'm really curious to see what happens next week.

And I agree with comments above about having to fix the timeline somehow. Vixen and Kuasa, especially. Their destinies as totem bearers. And our Amaya, of course. I'm still not convinced Nate isn't Kuasa's grandpa, by the way. They've never mentioned who Amaya's baby daddy might be.  There are a lot of loose ends in this story, and I was actually hoping we'd learn a bit more last night, but I guess they'll cram it all in the finale.

Me, I think Amaya is pretty selfish, and Nate selfless, and they're both really dumb (and in love, which is the same thing most of the time), but I think ultimately he's the father of her daughter and all this has been part of their shared destiny, until Amaya returns back to her time. I've certainly enjoyed watching them together, and I'll miss them together.

1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I like Nate and Amaya.  He had a great deal of respect for the idea of preserving history but he ended up falling in love.  They are star-crossed and time-crossed.  Maybe it was a full moon but I was honestly touched when Nate was still so drawn to Amaya, even as an old woman.  I truly believe he loves her.

I've always found Amaya VERY likeable and have always felt she is part of the unique cocktail that makes Legends the best cast in the Arrowverse.  I'm not happy at the idea of her not being around anymore.  I didn't like Arrows Vixen enough to care about her being phased out of existence.

Same.

I love the idea that Hair Down Ava is a different clone. And Rip, man. Harsh. But true to character. I have to assume Ava survives the finale, though. I have to assume Rip calling her replaceable wasn't foreshadowing, but a hint that she will, in fact, prove irreplaceable, somehow. Right?  If only to return Sara's I love you?

Not enough Ray, Mick or Zari. And I think Wally is actually used well. His little bond with Nate and even Zari (who, like a big sister, stepped up to protect him when Damien had him) are way deeper than anything we've seen on The Flash. I agree that they incapacitate him too frequently, but this is the show that gave us about 10 episodes without Nate steeling up, or the show that had Stein and Jax literally running around throwing punches without merging. It is what it is.

The John Noble cameo was amazing. Aussie accent and all. He clearly had a blast.

I still think there are too many loose ends, and I don't know how the finale will solve everything (while also including various guest stars), but I can already tell you I'm going to love every minute of it.

[Goldmoon]

Really surprised that I enjoyed the way they incorporated John Noble into the episode.  More Mick please!

[MissLucas]

As usual this show's crazy enough that I'm willing to overlook everything that makes no sense. Now can we have Beebo slaughter Mallus because I'm getting tired of him.

The John Noble cameo was fantastic. And I'm just going to assume that Sara is number 12 (and not 10 or 15) because Arthur Darvill/Rory never got to meet 12.

[TV Anonymous]

Let us just say that the actor who plays Obama can not do Obama. Jay Pharoah is much better.

[Barlowe]

I'm actively wishing that Nate's role is either downsized or eliminated because he's so useless between Lucy on Timeless and Jacob on the Librarians, Nate's the worst historian time -traveler i've ever seen. I hate the way he acts around Amaya.

 

I watced the first two seasons on and off but have rarely missed an episode this season, why exactly does everyone hate Rip beyond what he did to Ava and Sara?

[Cthulhudrew]

One of these days, I'd love for a character to find out they're a clone and go, "Meh. I know what I feel and even if my memories are fake, they feel real to me. Let's go kick some ass."

Best guest appearance. 

I'd have bought into Damien Darhk's heartfelt confession a lot more if he hadn't spent the entire season up until the last couple of episodes cackling and hamming his way through every scene- including the ones he spent with his so, so precious daughter.

(Heh. Precious. I'm picturing him as Gollum holding Norah's hand. "My... precioussssss....")

John Noble was such a great guest appearance. Did I mention that already?

I'm not sure what's worse- seeing characters standing around staring dumbly as the villains unleash/dialogue/escape, or seeing characters announce their intentions to everyone else around them and letting the bad guys get the drop on them as a result.

(Really Wally? "I'll take care of this..." and then you try to run and grab Darhk's amulet? Run first, then talk. You really didn't learn anything from watching Barry's many failures, did you?)

[Cthulhudrew]

On 4/2/2018 at 7:41 PM, DavidJSnyder said:

Tommy actually mentions a Black president, presumably Obama, being something new that happened while Oliver was on the island in the pilot of Arrow. So Obama could have elected in 2008 and either lost in 2012 or left office for some other reason with the guy who died in Invasion maybe having been his VP.

Or chalk it up to Flashpoint.

I'd buy that.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[BaggythePanther]

I really enjoyed this episode. But between trapping Darhk in a circle using occult symbols, extremely meta actor appearances, and the addition of Constantine next season, it feels like this show is inching to close to Supernatural. I won’t get really worried until they start salting the doorways to keep villains out.

[UNOSEZ]

Granted I am a millennial mixed race college educated north east democrat.. But I really liked the scenes with Sara and 44… And wouldn’t mind if they dropped in on him again for some more heart to hearts… Maybe now don’t even flash him so as they pop in on him from time to time he remembers…. This woulda worked with Clinton or W too.. Just needed a modern president… Tho they did Obama first so I say keep going to him

[tennisgurl]

Whenever some continuity issue pops up, I usually say "damn it Barry!" and move on. #blameflashpoint

[Sakura12]

Apparently Barrack was president when Arrow started, this is from the transcript from the pilot. 

Tommy: Ok. What else did you miss? Super bowl winners... Giants, Steelers, Saints, Packers, Giants again. A black president, that's new. Oh, and "Lost," they were all dead...I think.

So maybe in the Arrowverse he only served 1 term.