S08.E09: Honor

[peach]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

ETA: RE: Coma. You mean at the beginning in the hospital, right? Duh. 

LOL.  I was like, ummmm, Angela?  I know it was a long time ago, but....  J/K  Anyway, he probably has concussion syndrome at the very least.  This is how I will forgive anything stupid he does.  Now someone needs to give Negan a concussion.  A permanent one.

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, peach said:

Now someone needs to give Negan a concussion. 

IMO? Someone already did, maybe the original Lucille. How else to account for a man past middle age talking and acting like a particularly goofy and irritating frat boy? I'm waiting for him to pull a "panty raid" on the female saviors - only the "hot" ones of course.

 

13 minutes ago, peach said:

I know it was a long time ago, but.... 

Seems like another lifetime and another show. 

 

37 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

last thing we need to see is Negan's terrible face. And he somehow even managed to overact and scenery chew thru his one line.

That's so true and it was kind of amazing, but not in a good way. 

[AlwaysWatching]

9 hours ago, Smad said:

They should have been done with All Out War at the end of S7. S8 should have been about rebuilding after the war, kind of like in the real world. Where we have Hilltop/Kingdom/Alexandria peacefully co-existing, all specialized in different things and establishing trade and the like. It would have tightened up S7 without all the useless filler and S8 could have purely been about rebuilding and more importantly character work. They could have still done scavenging runs so we can see Zombie action and maybe run into a deranged human here or there.

11 hours ago, Tony said:

Damn! I was thinking the same exact thing about 10 seconds before I read this.  Wouldn't that be great if the "writers" decide to get the Negan stuff over with as soon as possible and then give us some episodes like SMAD said above.  I suppose they have shot the end of this season, so, maybe at least start the next season with some peace and harmony?  We need a reset on all of this non-stop emotional anquish.  I know it's a violent show, but our viewing minds need some relief.  I want to watch someone plant veggies.  Maybe Carol could bake some more cookies. 

Hey, maybe I'll go to a Walking Dead fantasy land myself.  Yeah...

[Colorado David]

Eh they dragged this out way too long IMO. We all liked Carl but making us mopey for half an hour is too much. and I'm not happy with the line of Carl getting bit, he seemed way too careful for that.

Love Mean Morgan, you kick ass my friend.

[seacliffsal]

I admit it, I pretty much had tears in my eyes the entire time.  Like others, I really grew to like Carl.  It's going to be hard for me, but I'll continue to watch as long as Rick and Carol are left alive.  I don't view this as must see t.v. any more, but I guess there's a part of me that hopes they'll kill Negan and start writing better stories.

I did guess that Henry would kill Gavin as there had to be a reason to have him there.  I was not impressed by the scene of Morgan taking out the savior's entrails as I saw it before and better when Rick bit out the throat of Joe.  I thought the writers were trying too hard to try to convince the viewers that there should not be any repercussions for the saviors that they have brutalized so many people with Ezekial and Carol both telling Morgan that he didn't have to kill Gavin AND Carl telling Rick to live in peace.  Here's the rub though, this very same series has shown us the dangers of not killing all enemies as the Governor returned, the Termites returned, the Wolves returned, etc.  ALL of them returned and took even more lives than they had previously.  You can't have it both ways show-you can't show how these were all mistakes in the past and now expect us to support the not killing of all enemies in a conflict.  Every time Rick listened to others and ended a fight or pursuit, they loss additional members of their family.

I hope Rick goes all out-kills the saviors, garbage patch kids, etc.  And I hope Negan's death by Rick and/or Michonne is especially painful.

[peach]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

IMO? Someone already did, maybe the original Lucille. How else to account for a man past middle age talking and acting like a particularly goofy and irritating frat boy? I'm waiting for him to pull a "panty raid" on the female saviors - only the "hot" ones of course.

 

Seems like another lifetime and another show.

That's for sure!

[Gobi]

I know it was just Carl's fantasy, but that shot of Negan really annoyed me. It was like watching a show about John Wayne Gacy that ends with everyone forgiving him and he goes back to being a clown at kids' parties.

[bobbyjoe]

Proposed new ending to the episode:

[we're once again in Carl's fantasy future.  "Gandalf the Grey" Rick walks into the garden and sees Negan tending a shrub.  "Why hello, Ri--" Negan starts to say, when suddenly dream-Carl jumps out of the bushes and beats Negan to death with Lucille]

[cut back to the real world. The bomb Carl secretly planted in Negan's vehicle explodes.  Small parts of Negan go everywhere. His severed head lands in Rick's lap].

[Carl emerges from the church] RICK:  Son!  I thought you were dead!

CARL: Shut up, Dad.  I wasn't bit by a zombie, I was scratched by a branch.  And you guys were all, blah, blah, blah, boo hoo, Carl's dying.  What idiots.  Now throw Negan's head away, I'm in charge now.

[roll credits]

Edited February 26, 2018 by bobbyjoe

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Other than maybe Abe & Sasha, the Show has been killing off its 'pacifiists' with regularity ever since Negan showed on the scene.  And funny how Carl turned from Serial-Killer-Teen "I'M going to kill Negan, even going so far as trying to (suicidally) sneak into his stronghold to do so!" to the meek "Just stop killing, Dad!". 

My problem/main gripe with all this is - aside from the quick (& honestly, forgettable) scenes in the season opener with 'Saddiq' - where were the clues and lead up to Carl's change of disposition??  Jarringly abrupt change in his character, IMO.

Edited February 26, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[SnarkyTart]

10 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Other than maybe Abe & Sasha, the Show has been killing off its 'pacifiists' with regularity ever since Negan showed on the scene.  And funny how Carl turned from Serial-Killer-Teen "I'M going to kill Negan, even going so far as trying to (suicidally) sneak into his stronghold to do so!" to the meek "Just stop killing, Dad!". 

My problem/main gripe with all this is - aside from the quick (& honestly, forgettable) scenes in the season opener with 'Saddiq' - where were the clues and lead up to Carl's change of disposition??  Jarringly abrupt change in his character, IMO.

There's been a rapid-fire whipsaw of personality transplants in several of the characters.  Carol swings pretty easily between being the Terminator, to moping around for extended periods of time because she just can't kill anymore.  Morgan has only two modes: Terminator or Zen Master.  Jesus, as minor of a character as he's turned out to be, was introduced to us as a pretty bad ass Ninja, only to end up inexplicably forbidding anyone to kill saviors, and to hold them instead in some kind of rickety goat pen right in the middle of the Hilltop community.  As far as I can remember, only Daryl has been consistent in recognizing the need to dispatch their enemies without question, even if it meant bucking up against Rick.  Sadly, Daryl's character became nothing more than a dirty, grunting, monosyllabic ape, so.

[Colorado David]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I get the feeling that TPTB just might think they are smarter than the viewing audience.  There should have been a writing/acting correction by now, given the ratings slide.  Given that, that hasn't happened, one needs to ask why.  The only thing I can come up with is arrogance.

 

SO SO SO agree with this. Any interviews I see with Gimple, he just seems so smug and pleased with himself - we Mr G, this last season has really gone downhill, you've alienated a lot of viewers by making our characters change in weird directions personality wise (Maggie, Carol and Daryl seem to be the only consistent ones from previous seasons).  I would have been upset at Carl dying in previous seasons - this season with him becoming 'we all just need to get along' pacifist Carl, I really don't care that he croaked.

Agree on the vision with Negan, don't mind that he was there - it was Carl's view of everybody finally getting along I think. (I think it's kinda dumb to age Rick, but Eugene and Negan look the same as now.)

[Persnickety1]

9 hours ago, CrashTextDummie said:

Pro tip for future TV creators: Don't put a toddler with no concept of what's going on into a scene that's supposed to have emotional impact. Oh who am I kidding they never learn. They only way it could have been more cringe-worthy would have been if they tried to CGI some emotional response into her face. I kinda wish they had. Then at least I could have laughed at it.

Speaking of: Gavin getting sneak-neck-staked by Henry (yes, I know their names now!) and Negan appearing in Paradise? Two of the most laugh-out-loud funny moments for me in the show's history. If it was by design to break up the misery with some comedy, I would say well done, but I have my doubts. I think there was supposed to be significance in intercutting Morgan's Terminator routine with Carl's sermon of peace, but to me it just came across as very shoddy directing. Literally laughable.

High points? Saddiq is a doctor and I liked the actor in this episode so the character turns out to have unexpected potential. I think that's it. Sorry, high point, singular.

In the end, Chandler Riggs did a pretty good job dying. I wasn't sure he had it in him. Rick's cry-face is such a common sight at this point that I fail to be impressed anymore though. I remember Andrew Lincoln absolutely breaking my heart when Lori died and it's sad I can't muster the same feelings for the character anymore.

I was holding out for a double snot bubble, but alas I was disappointed.

I need to watch the episode again.  My AMC keeping "loading" and thus cutting out quite a bit of every scene (wish I could blame Gimple for that, too).

Or maybe I was still grief stricken over the death of Neil (whoever the fuck that red shirt in the back of Maggie's truck was) to concentrate.  

I was glad to see Carol and Morgan being a dynamic duo and doing what they're best at.

Hopefully Henry stays short, cute and with a high-pitched voice for some time.  Apparently boys who reach puberty (Sam and Carl) are killed off in short order on TWD.  

On an aside, I was disappointed to see none of his fellow cast mates showed up to wish Chandler well on TTD.  

Hell, maybe AMC told them not to in light of the controversy, but still...disappointing.  I'd have even be happy to see Lori show up for him.  

[tennisgurl]

Normally, I am all for showing mercy to enemies, and applaud people who want to find the peaceful path...but at some point, after a certain amount of people have been murdered, its time to stop with the Give Peace a Chance stuff, and just take these assholes out of the picture. This show has always had a weird relationship with violence, and it really shows in its characters. They want Carl to be a kid badass and have cool action scenes, but they also want to have some kind of message, and that means they have to talk on and on about passivisim and rising above, even when it makes no practical sense. Carl basically became Jesus in the episodes before his death so we could have Carl giving this death bed talk about his dream of living in happy land. Besides, putting a "violence is bad" message into a show where violence totally IS the answer 95% of the time, where the fans love watching characters be badass, is already pretty messy as is. Changing characterization based around what their message is going to be just makes the whole thing more confusing. 

Really, a better idea for the show is to focus on "only use violence if its to protect yourself and others" or something. The gang can still be basically good, peaceful people, but that doesn't mean they should be stupid and avoid killing these spring of super violent murderers, who want to talk everyone into a coma. 

[Persnickety1]

16 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

My biggest struggle with TWD is that I can't freaking tell WTF is happening during the night scenes. I'm hate (half-)watching till the end of the season. I had to convince myself to actually bother watching this tonight, as my thoughts when I realized earlier this week that it was back again was, "ugh, already? It hasn't been a long enough break!", but I think this will be a show I will have to bow out of before its ultimate demise. This show needs to be put out of its misery like all the zombies still wandering around.

We refer to those scenes as "Helen Keller Vision" at Casa Persnickety.  

8 hours ago, A-Lo said:

Where's Maggie?

Hopefully off working on her atrocious southern accent.

[Haleth]

When I heard months ago that Carl was a goner I refused to watch anymore.  I was furious that they'd kill off the symbol of hope, the kid we've watched grow up and turn into an impressive young man (both character and actor).  Yet I did watch last night's episode this afternoon.  It was a nice send off for Chandler.  I'm still iffy about watching the rest of the season; I certainly hope this Saviors nonsense is over by then.

Best wishes, Chandler.  Hope your next project is an improvement.

(I did enjoy reading the real time conversation.  Hilarious as usual.)

Edited February 26, 2018 by Haleth

[jackjill89]

So, Rick says "my mercy will prevail over my wrath" while burying his son. Scenes from next week... Rick is yelling "I'm going to kill you!" 

I don't understand why they killed Carl. I don't get how this will put the show on any different trajectory. I'm not looking forward to when Negan finds out Carl is gone and rubs it in Rick's face. That will really piss me off. I don't want to hear Negan speechifying. I don't want to hear any more Saviors talking. Ever. I'm so over them. 

[peach]

TV Line doesn't really seem to be buying what Gimple is selling.  And it is the "end of an era" alright.  The era of people watching this show.  Also, there are no spoilers despite the link title.

https://tvline.com/2018/02/26/walking-dead-season-8-finale-spoilers-interview-scott-gimple/

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I like [/SARCASM] how it requires a severe dumbing down of most characters for their deaths to occur, or the events happening leading up to said deaths.

So Carl has a gun, but it takes getting bit to remember it and pop both his immediate walker targets.  Oooooooooooooooooooooh-k.  Riiight.  Sure.  Because a kid who grew up for about 5 years through this shitty mess wouldn't just use the gun immediately and erase any chance of letting himself become walker chow.  Never.

While I feel bad that the one character who should have had the most impenetrable plot armor of everyone got killed off for little more than "shock value!", I am thrilled for CR to get away from this mess while he's still young and can make a name for himself other than just as 'Carl Grimes'.

Edited February 27, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Ohwell]

I was glad that Carl on his deathbed did acknowledge and express remorse for killing that kid in cold blood who was in the process of laying his weapon on the ground.  I hated Carl for that, and had a hard time liking him afterwards.   

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And funny how Carl turned from Serial-Killer-Teen "I'M going to kill Negan, even going so far as trying to (suicidally) sneak into his stronghold to do so!" to the meek "Just stop killing, Dad!". 

You know the Pacifist Mode virus is rotating. It just happened to be Carl's turn at it. It happens to everyone. One minute they're all "Kill 'em all" and then suddenly the very same person is "All life is precious" "can't we all just get along" and "all you need is love." Then it's back to "Kill 'em all." Confusing but pretty predictable. 

1 hour ago, peach said:

TV Line doesn't really seem to be buying what Gimple is selling.  And it is the "end of an era" alright.  The era of people watching this show.  Also, there are no spoilers despite the link title.

OMG, I can't remember the last time I read such a bunch of meaningless, baffle-speak bullshit. Well, at least Gimple is good at that, if not at anything else. 

[Quilty]

10 hours ago, A-Lo said:

Where's Maggie?

Who cares.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I imagine there was a conversation to this effect: 

Mr. Gimple, sir...

Yes?

So, and this was no ones fault, sir, but this character Gavin appears to demonstrate a bit of nuance...

What dat?

Well, it's like with him you get the sense that the world is neither happytime ren faire nor a Saw movie, and that he could be redeemable given circumstances remarkably like the ones Carl is dying for, and...sir, what do we do with Gavin?

......Kill him with a stick. Then give Negan his own tomato garden.

'Kay.

Edited February 27, 2018 by The Mighty Peanut

[AngelaHunter]

Just now, The Mighty Peanut said:

I imagine there was a conversation to this effect: 

Mr. Gimple, sir...

Yes?

So, and this was no ones fault, sir, but this character Gavin appears to demonstrate a bit of nuance...

What dat?

Well, it's like with him you get the sense that the world is neither ren faire nor a Saw movie, and that he could be redeemable given circumstances remarkably like the ones Carl is dying for, and...sir, what do we do with Gavin?

......Kill him with a stick. Then give Negan his own tomato garden.

'Kay.

YES x 1000 to this. Nuance, pacing, characterization, human emotions and conversations - "what dat??"

[dnagirl]

I prefer to imagine that in FantasyLand, after Judith walks up to Negan and he says, "hello, sweetheart" she pulls out a machete and sticks it right into his guts.

 

La jiggy jar jar doo, Carl.  La jiggy jar jar doo.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Carl's dying was so built up tragically that his final moments were spent - aside from his Dad, Daryl and Michonne (& Judith) - with supporting characters being nearby who didn't appear in the show until mid-season 3 or after, nor were ever shown having any real quality screen-time with him beforehand.  No Carol, no Maggie, no Enid (the 'gf').  They showed Tara in the background weakly point at Carl before leaving with Daryl to make way to Hilltop, without a face shot to convey tone.  WTH kind of reaction/'goodbye' is that!? 

Any 'sorrow' that Gimple, the writers, etc, "show" about Carl/CR's leaving the show will always be empty platitudes to me.  Characters like that don't get to die without getting to say goodbye to characters that everyone knows the dying character might care about.  As much as he loved them, Rick & Michonne weren't the only people that mattered to Carl.

[catrox14]

I think Rick got bit and that's why he's sitting against the tree.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think Rick got bit and that's why he's sitting against the tree.

I am definitely out if that is what indeed happens.  If Rick - who's been shown previously to fight himself through hordes of walkers, BY HIMSELF - only to turn around and get bit as in a similar situation as to what happened to Carl, I will laugh myself into a hysterical coma.

......... just hope I don't wake up months later to a ZA.

Edited February 27, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[catrox14]

Just now, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I am definitely out if that is what indeed happens.  If Rick is shown to fight himself through hordes of walkers only to get bit similar to what happened to Carl, I will laugh myself into a hysterical coma.

......... just hope I don't wake up months later to a ZA.

Same. Rick is the only reason for me to watch now.

[dnagirl]

Other DNAfamily moments from this episode:

 

*Morgan rips dude's guts out*

Me:  well, Morgan was once a pacifist, but...he seems to have turned a corner.

 

*Henry puts a spear through whateverhisnamebaddude's throat* *Carol freaks out all angry and shit*

MrDNA: wow, Carol only seems to have one reaction to children in these situations, doesn't she?

Me:  Look at the flowers, Henry.  LOOK AT THE FUCKING FLOWERS, KID!

 

PSA:  these things are probably only humorous in my own head, but we do constant commentary through episodes of shows, so why not share...  We're like the Pat Summerall/John Madden of Texas.  In our own minds.

[oakville]

19 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

My biggest struggle with TWD is that I can't freaking tell WTF is happening during the night scenes. I'm hate (half-)watching till the end of the season. I had to convince myself to actually bother watching this tonight, as my thoughts when I realized earlier this week that it was back again was, "ugh, already? It hasn't been a long enough break!", but I think this will be a show I will have to bow out of before its ultimate demise. This show needs to be put out of its misery like all the zombies still wandering around.

I agree. I have a new tv & couldn't see Michonne talking to Rick in the sewer. It was too dark.

[shanndee]

I...completely forgot that this was on last night. I'm kind of sad that I forgot about what used to be a must see show for me.

Anyway. I'm off to check to see if it is on my PVR, then figure out when/if I want to watch it.

[pfk505]

Carl's never-ending death, which pushed tediousness to new extremes, is the absolute perfect allegory for this train wreck of a show.

[AngelaHunter]

5 minutes ago, pfk505 said:

Carl's never-ending death, which pushed tediousness to new extremes, is the absolute perfect allegory for this train wreck of a show.

No kidding, but it's like this with most deaths. Everyone keeps chatting or monologuing until they draw their final breath, right after they get out a pithy, wrap-it-all-up last word. People are often in agony, terrified, suffering and/or absorbed in their own state when dying slowly, not really in a frame of mind to make flowery or insightful speeches. This show always does that, ensuring the audience feels nothing but relief when ______ finally shuts the hell up. 

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I think Rick got bit and that's why he's sitting against the tree.

I thought the same thing. I also think maybe he killed the guy Carl rescued and feels guilty since he knew Carl would not have wanted that? Maybe he had to take out Michonne or Daryl?

That was probably just Andrew Lincoln between takes thinking about how far the show has fallen.

[diebartdie]

Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus have signed contracts for season 9 so neither of them are dying yet.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

It's like this show's been bitten and is taking at least 3 seasons to bite the dust while we're stuck with a smorgasbord of never-ending monologues. Just turn into a zombie already!

[peach]

28 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

That was probably just Andrew Lincoln between takes thinking about how far the show has fallen.

The thousand yard stare.  "FML."  lol  I think Gimple said there is meaning in that shot because it refers to something in the comics.

 

2 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Well, it's like with him you get the sense that the world is neither happytime ren faire nor a Saw movie, and that he could be redeemable given circumstances remarkably like the ones Carl is dying for, and...sir, what do we do with Gavin?

......Kill him with a stick. Then give Negan his own tomato garden.

'Kay.

I legit LOL'ed.

13 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus have signed contracts for season 9 so neither of them are dying yet.

Yeah, but season 9 might just cover the day after this one.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Another thing - why was Rick so old in Carl's fantasy when Judith looked like she was only around 6 years old? It was such a distraction to have Santa Claus limping around with a cane and a southern accent.

[Rosiejuliemom]

37 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Another thing - why was Rick so old in Carl's fantasy when Judith looked like she was only around 6 years old? It was such a distraction to have Santa Claus limping around with a cane and a southern accent.

Once Rick stopped killing thangs, he had more time to work on his Hershel cosplay?

Edited February 27, 2018 by Rosiejuliemom
Proper tense is a thing I should use.

[peach]

They all feel as bad as we do.  Worse, actually, since they know him, and this ruins the entire show they are stuck with.  When Rick said goodbye he was probably thinking, "I couldn't protect you...[from Scott Gimple]."
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/the-walking-dead/news/a850889/the-walking-dead-andrew-lincoln-chandler-riggs-carl-exit-really-unbearable/

[Dobian]

So Carl is dead, and now I have just seven more episodes to watch to see how this season plays out before calling TWD officially done.  What's left to tell?  You either find a cure, which the show has no intention of doing, or you build a new civilization that can manage in zombie land.  CDB knows this, they were already doing it before a douchebag with a baseball bat decided to go ISIS on everyone.  You don't need Carl dying to inspire them to do this.  I don't need to watch another season where they start the cycle all over again with a new group of yeehawing tyrants making life hell for everyone.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Dobian

[Schmoopy]

'The Walking Dead' Andrew Lincoln serenades Chandler Riggs

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Schmoopy

[Starchild]

All that buildup to Eugene's master plan, and his talk about his machines, I thought we'd find out he had this awesome Rube Goldberg thing happening to get them out of the Sanctuary. But it was just strategic shooting? They needed Eugenius for that?

[enthropyhater]

7 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

There's been a rapid-fire whipsaw of personality transplants in several of the characters.  Carol swings pretty easily between being the Terminator, to moping around for extended periods of time because she just can't kill anymore.  Morgan has only two modes: Terminator or Zen Master.  Jesus, as minor of a character as he's turned out to be, was introduced to us as a pretty bad ass Ninja, only to end up inexplicably forbidding anyone to kill saviors, and to hold them instead in some kind of rickety goat pen right in the middle of the Hilltop community.  As far as I can remember, only Daryl has been consistent in recognizing the need to dispatch their enemies without question, even if it meant bucking up against Rick.  Sadly, Daryl's character became nothing more than a dirty, grunting, monosyllabic ape, so.

LMAO!!! 

[sarthaz]

The Negan thing made perfect sense.  Weird that people are mad about it.  As for the episode as a whole, it was difficult to watch, mostly because it's 10 minutes of content dragged out for 80+ minutes.  And WTF is up with Judith?  Is she mute?  Or an alien?  That was the most awkwardly filmed scene of the series' entire run, and they should have just left it on the cutting room floor.  None of it rang true, not Carl, not Judith, not the mutant ADR crying, none of it.  We could have had a tight 82 minutes of Carl dying and Morgan killing shit instead of 83 if they'd tossed that scene like they should have.

2 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

That was probably just Andrew Lincoln between takes thinking about how far the show has fallen.

Almost woke my kids laughing at that.

[dwarmed]

5 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

 

It's like this show's been bitten and is taking at least 3 seasons to bite the dust while we're stuck with a smorgasbord of never-ending monologues. Just turn into a zombie already!

 

Mindless, slow-moving, trudging along with no end in sight. The show already turned. It’s now a POV of zombie existence. 

[millennium]

On 2/25/2018 at 10:26 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I know we rip on Rick a lot, but let's give him a pass this episode. He buried his son, and no one deserves that.

Morgan pulling that guy's guts out and Henry spearing the other Savior FTFW!

But Negan showing up in the utopia fantasy?! NO. NOT ONE BIT OF THAT SHIT FLIES HERE.

I was more offended that piece-of-shit Eugene was allowed to survive.

Forgive my confusion, but what part of this episode was real?

The opening frame was red-eyed Rick, seemingly dazed and distressed ... and the final scene was red-eyed Rick, totally out of the episode's context, propped against a tree, with blood seeping through his shirt in a spot identical to where Carl got bit.   That hardly seems a coincidence.   Is it possible everything that transpired between those two scenes (at least where Rick was involved) was a fever dream?    Remember the movie "Jacob's Ladder?"   The whole movie turned out to be a fantasy in the mind of a soldier as he lay dying on an operating table.   Or "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge."

Anyway, that song.  That GODAWFUL song.

Siddiq was just a little too perfect.   "I will honor you, Carl."   Yeah right.   I had the uneasy feeling that Carl's death scene was idealized, more like somebody's perfect vision of how a loved one's death should go, with everyone having an opportunity to say what needed to be said,  and the dying person given a last platform to impart wisdom to those gathered around.   It felt overly scripted, which is another reason why I am compelled to wonder if what we saw was indeed real.

[Haleth]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think Rick got bit and that's why he's sitting against the tree.

Maybe he killed Negan.

I believe in unicorns and fairies too.

[sarthaz]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Siddiq was just a little too perfect.   "I will honor you, Carl."   Yeah right.   I had the uneasy feeling that Carl's death scene was idealized, more like somebody's perfect vision of how a loved one's death should go, with everyone having an opportunity to say what needed to be said,  and the dying person given a last platform to impart wisdom to those gathered around.   It felt overly scripted, which is another reason why I am compelled to wonder if what we saw was indeed real.

I admire your brain's ability to adapt to confusing circumstances, but I think it's just really bad writing. :)

What I took from this episode is that there aren't two potential futures for Rick as was implied in the season premiere.  There's Carl's idealized hope for the future, and there's what really happens.

[Dobian]

15 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think Rick got bit and that's why he's sitting against the tree.

He got bit, he didn't get bit.  Carl's dead, Carl's alive.  Glenn's dead, Glenn's alive, Glenn's dead again.  I don't care anymore, lol.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Dobian