S02.E16: Vegas, Baby

[bichonblitz]

Did Toby pay those guys to pretend to be his friends at the bachelor party? I swear I heard that. If so, does he have no friends? Then why have a party? He is so weird. 

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Did Toby pay those guys to pretend to be his friends at the bachelor party? I swear I heard that. If so, does he have no friends? Then why have a party? He is so weird. 

I think he meant he had to pay for their flights and accommodation.

[WhosThatGirl]

12 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Did Toby pay those guys to pretend to be his friends at the bachelor party? I swear I heard that. If so, does he have no friends? Then why have a party? He is so weird. 

I know he said something about having to beg that one guy to put the whole thing together and the other people I assumed were people he knows but not friends.

I think he probably wanted a party when he found out Kate was having a party(that madison probably did) and he jumped in on that. 

Also as someone who has never been engaged/married, I just have to say I don’t understand the point of joint bachelor/bachelorette parties. And yeah I know this wasn’t really joint but traveling to the same place to have these parties. It never seems like it’s going to end well. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Their dramas being whether a) Kevin will have a career going forward or be just another Hollywood reject on Big Brother. b) whether a young girl is safe. I think both of those issues are more important than the bachelor parties.

They might be more important, but there wasn't anything they could do about them right then.  Randall couldn't help Deja until they went back home and I doubt that even if beth had agreed they were going to change their flight.  And Kevin wasn't using the time to go on auditions (though I do give him more of a pass because I think he may have wanted to get away from the drinking).  And, I don't fault Randall for stepping away and returning the call.  It was leaving after that to go bug Beth who clearly needed a break about it.

[MsChicklet]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Not to get too off on this, but what does that mean for someone who loses a job, gets sick, etc.?  Unable to maintain without assistance means you lose your child into the system? 

Deja had already been in foster care at least twice: Once with Randall and Beth, and an earlier foster home where there was violence which left her scared of men touching her or making sudden moves. That prior history could have Deja and her mom worried that social services could see Deja being homeless in the winter as endangering her.

[kissedbyarose]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

But hasn't it been like 20 years since Jack died?  It just felt to me like if Kate was upset over all this, it would have manifested a long time ago, instead of how ever many years into Randall's marriage.  And like someone else said, this is just another example of a storyline where Kate apparently is still stuck where she was as a teenager.    

I agree and I think they probably should’ve left this issue for the flashback of the Big Three in their 20s but then I’ve always had the nagging feeling that the show should’ve started with the Big Three at an earlier age.

[Amethyst]

I was also put off by Randall and Beth arguing at the party, because the whole reason they were in Vegas was to celebrate Kate and Toby's union.  So I get Kate butting in, but it only made things worse.  

That said, I saw it as Beth and Kate voicing things that had been bothering them a long time.  Kate is already intimidated by Beth, and was upset that Randall would put Beth above his sister.   Beth mentioned that this wasn't a situation to involve "the Big Three," it was just between her and Randall.  It's been said before that it's easy to feel left out of the Pearson family when you're not actually one of them, and I think Beth just blurted that out in frustration.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I know he said something about having to beg that one guy to put the whole thing together and the other people I assumed were people he knows but not friends.

I think he probably wanted a party when he found out Kate was having a party(that madison probably did) and he jumped in on that. 

Also as someone who has never been engaged/married, I just have to say I don’t understand the point of joint bachelor/bachelorette parties. And yeah I know this wasn’t really joint but traveling to the same place to have these parties. It never seems like it’s going to end well. 

I think I'm kind of like Toby.  My husband and I are hoping to have a baby, and I know that when the time comes, I won't be thrown a shower.  I don't have friends like THAT.  And of the people I know, they've become SO politically correct that they probably won't throw me one because they are worried I'd be offended (because showers like that aren't considered proper to many from my ancestral culture (although I have noticed that the international students I went to high school with are ALL having them).  I'm not begging for one, but it's just the kind of vibe I get.

[OrigamiNightmare]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Many shelters are less safe than sleeping in your car, and often they are full and have no beds available.

Unfortunately, the social services and safety net in this country are woefully inadequate and mostly a myth.

Upthread someone mentioned liheap (fuel assistance) and that is also often not enough to cover an entire winter, plus it can take time to qualify even after you file the paperwork.

It's just not all that easy to get out of poverty, and when people fall on hard times it doesn't mean they're stupid or lazy or that they aren't trying.

Word!

[debraran]

20 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Word!

So true, I get so tired of hearing about how everyone is beating the system and "they" get so much free stuff.  I had family and friends on SNAP, medicaid and other social service and most aren't doing that. The news likes to highlight the worst. I see a lot working in healthcare. One patient who was an old friend from childhood where I work, who was talking about his premiums and how his friend gets medicaid and food stamps and bought a steak (horrors) and has subsidized housing, etc. I politely asked if he'd like to trade places. He paused for about 30 seconds and said No. I told him many doctor's don't take Medicaid, his care with his premiums is better, subsidized housing isn't always taken care of and food stamps, if he's alone and not denying his children food, can be used for meat and how he divides up the money is a personal thing the same as he does his own money.  It's very hard to get a break or get out of debt when you do get a job.  I try to always not judge, hard as it is at times and hope our child services and health care  and job opportunities get much better.

Edited March 1, 2018 by debraran

[Bringonthedrama]

13 hours ago, Trillian said:

. The whole time Randall was in Vegas obsessing about Deja, I kept thinking “how are Tess and Annie doing, Randall?  Remember them?  Even if they’re safe with Rebecca and Miguel or with friends, shouldn’t you remember you have your own kids?”

THIS. Also didn't care for Beth's line to Kate that "fostering is the hardest thing I've ever done," and then the tear she wipes away as she shares that she's been thinking of Deja. Really?! Taking care of a girl with issues for...a few months? is harder than carrying two pregnancies to term, giving birth to your daughters, and raising them everyday up to this moment? It's harder than dealing with however many years of Randall's anxieties while raising your young children? No mention of checking in on their own children. UGH.

[wallofsound]

I was rolling my eyes so hard at the beginning of the episode with the bowling alley/grand gesture montage.   If I had a nickel for each time one of them said ‘babe’.    I would hate these two in real life.  

Kevin’s monologue with the hotel maid was ridiculous.   Just tell the lady to remove the bottles.   End. of. story.   

I was happy to watch Randall and Beth have a more realistic exchange this episode.   Their communication is always so amazingly perfect and respectful.  Finally Beth calls him a neurotic mess who is exhausting to deal with.   Yet he is still vindicated when it turns out Deja was actually in trouble.   Can the man ever be wrong?  He’s like Jack Part Deux - always shown in a good light     

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

THIS. Also didn't care for Beth's line to Kate that "fostering is the hardest thing I've ever done," and then the tear she wipes away as she shares that she's been thinking of Deja. Really?! Taking care of a girl with issues for...a few months? is harder than carrying two pregnancies to term, giving birth to your daughters, and raising them everyday up to this moment? It's harder than dealing with however many years of Randall's anxieties while raising your young children? No mention of checking in on their own children. UGH.

What I liked about that scene is that all the while she is resisting Randall wanting to check in on Deja and trying to get him not to worry, she is doing the same while giving the impression she wasn't.  I do think having a teenage foster child with issues is a different kind of thing altogether than raising your own from birth, especially healthy and angelic ones like Tess and Annie.  Those two haven't hit adolescence yet and their problems have probably been pretty small/time-limited compared to Deja, so I can see why it would feel like a tough thing to Beth.  You develop rhythms and ways of dealing with things over a period of years with your kids, but with a stranger you don't have any of that history or experience to build on. 

[Bringonthedrama]

44 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

she is resisting Randall wanting to check in on Deja and trying to get him not to worry, she is doing the same while giving the impression she wasn't.  I do think having a teenage foster child with issues is a different kind of thing altogether than raising your own from birth, especially healthy and angelic ones like Tess and Annie. 

I get that it's a different experience, and she feels that fostering is hard to do.  Understandable.  BUT I found "the hardest thing I've ever done" to be an eye-roll worthy line. This is a woman who graduated college and then got a master's (years of hard work), has a successful marriage with a man who dwells on perfectionism and has issues from his childhood family life that make him not an easy person to live and raise a family with, has handled two pregnancies and been a parent for some years now (physical strain and hard work), has handled her husband moving his dying biological father into their home and then Randall's subsequent breakdown after they all got attached to the man. Yet taking care of troubled young Deja, getting attached and then letting her go in a period of weeks or months, was totally harder than all of her previous much longer term life experiences. Yeah. Okay. Surrrreeee.  Now, if Deja had been a part of their lives since early Season 1, I could think that line has a shred of credibility. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I have always liked Toby, and after this episode Toby if officially my favourite Pearson. Even if he isn't one. I loved it when he pretended to not care that Randall and Kevin left his party, but as soon as Kevin asked if he wanted to go for a walk, he couldn't grab his jacket fast enough. Very sweet. 

I loved Madison's nicknames for Toby, especially Toblerone. I wish I knew someone named Toby so I could use it. 

I found most of the episode though to be a snooze. Don't care about the Jack and Rebecca's anniversary, and really don't care about Deja. Yawn. 

[bichonblitz]

15 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

loved Madison's nicknames for Toby, especially Toblerone. I wish I knew someone named Toby so I could use it. 

It was funny when she called them "Mike and Molly", too. 

[Amethyst]

15 hours ago, Trillian said:

The whole time Randall was in Vegas obsessing about Deja, I kept thinking “how are Tess and Annie doing, Randall?  Remember them?  Even if they’re safe with Rebecca and Miguel or with friends, shouldn’t you remember you have your own kids?”

Randall once said that despite hearing how difficult things would be as an adult, they ended up being pretty easy, including having children.  And later, he told Beth that their girls were good and would remain that way simply because their parents had raised them well, or something like that.  

Obviously Randall is grandiose and doesn't speak for everyone, but I have never heard anyone say that raising kids is easy.  Ever.  If anything, I hear the opposite.  So I find it amusing that he's finally experiencing some difficulties with parenting.

I'm OK with bachelor/bachelorette parties, but what I don't get is why people have these the night before their wedding.  Especially if they're going to somewhere like Vegas to get drunk and act a fool.  Only to go to your wedding the next day, while you're completely hungover, and possibly broke? 

Forget that.  Do the party a week before your wedding and give yourself time to rest and sober up.

[DebbieM4]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:23 PM, chocolatine said:

I loved that kid Randall had a friend group at the public library. I really wish adult Randall was more like kid Randall - nerdy and sweet instead of perfectionist know-it-all.

Seriously, they couldn't put their own stuff on the back burner even for one night. I don't even care that they tried to make up for it later, that was so selfish of them.

I kinda hate that Randall was proven right about his hunch that something was wrong with Deja, because now he'll feel justified to continue to obsess, overstep, and be a jerk to Beth.

Jack and Rebecca, great romantic gestures, blah blah blah, I don't care, what else is new?

I agree with all of this.

I didn't like this episode - and most of the people - when I watched last night.  So I watched again today, hoping it had just been my mood, because I really wanted to give it a second chance.  It was better, but not much.  Yes, Randall and Kevin were really unkind to Toby - and selfish.  What is up with this family and constantly walking out on big events?  I find that so odd when we're supposed to believe that they love and care about each other.   Randall and Kevin are adults and should have been able to put on their party faces, and - at least for Kate's sake - show a bit of enthusiasm even if they had to fake it.  It was jarring to me that they couldn't be bothered to even try.

I agree also re the grand gestures.  It's overkill at this point, and doesn't ring true so it does nothing to ingratiate me to Jack, or to Jack & Rebecca as a couple.  Too much been there, done that.  It's time to move on.

[DebbieM4]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:27 PM, debraran said:

 

Why did Kevin so soon out of rehab, leave liquor around? No mentor to call? Just thought that was odd. He got through it but next time?

 

That bothered me too.  There's no reason why he couldn't have had it removed right away rather than going into the whole monologue about, "You will come back and you will remove the 27 bottles".  Have her do it right then and there - or call the front desk and ask that someone come up with a cart and take the bottles out of the room.  If it were me, I would have removed them myself if I had to rather than have that kind of temptation hanging around.

[DebbieM4]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:48 PM, ProudMary said:

 

We actually didn't see any grand romantic gestures from Jack in the flashbacks shown.  It was kind of nice that we got to see Rebecca being the one to come through with the thoughtful, romantic anniversary gifts in the earliest flashbacks.

Yes, we did.  He had obviously arranged for the dance in the bowling alley, he gave her a piano wrapped in ribbon, and I can't remember the other one now.  I think there were 3.  We saw her giving him nice, small, thoughtful gifts, and then he one-upped her every time.  I thought that had been the point of the flashbacks.

[WhosThatGirl]

25 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

Yes, we did.  He had obviously arranged for the dance in the bowling alley, he gave her a piano wrapped in ribbon, and I can't remember the other one now.  I think there were 3.  We saw her giving him nice, small, thoughtful gifts, and then he one-upped her every time.  I thought that had been the point of the flashbacks.

This. I said it in my earlier posts. The first anniversary she gave him a bounded journal of his writings/drawings, he arranged a dance in spotlight. She remembered he said that he needed a new hammer, he buys her a grand piano.  And I also said that at the start of this season the show said we would see less of Jack as perfect and grand.. but I’m eh on that. Even his drinking which was an issue that he was dealing with, it hasn’t torn down his facade.

The only thing is that since no one in the past acknowledged Jack as not perfect it has caused problems for the big three in the future. (I.e Kevin and his addiction).  But other than that.. Jack is still pretty perfect in flashbacks. 

Rebecca however, at least they don’t need make her the villain this much This season. I still remember the hate she got last season for wanting to sing and all that. She didn’t deserve it. 

Also I wonder what it means that Kate and Randall both stayed in Pittsburgh the year after Jacks death. I mean Randall makes sense, he was always close with Rebecca, but Kate? I suppose this means she’s didn’t end up going away to school. I want more of the big threes lives after Jacks death.

Edited March 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Drumpf1737]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

They might be more important, but there wasn't anything they could do about them right then.  Randall couldn't help Deja until they went back home and I doubt that even if beth had agreed they were going to change their flight.  And Kevin wasn't using the time to go on auditions (though I do give him more of a pass because I think he may have wanted to get away from the drinking).  And, I don't fault Randall for stepping away and returning the call.  It was leaving after that to go bug Beth who clearly needed a break about it.

Great points! However, you remind me there's something that bugs me about the Pearsons. Things come to them very easily. Shouldn't we see Kevin meeting with his publicist to mitigate rumors like "you got drunk and ran over your daughter"? And if Ron Howard is right (and really, when is he wrong?) Kevin is going to be nominated for awards. Shouldn't someone be thinking about a messaging strategy? Shouldn't someone, as famous as he's supposed to be, have gone on Oprah or The View by now to beg forgiveness from his fans?

Kate fell into two great jobs, albeit one through nepotism.

I was glad when Randall said he and Beth had a good blow up at least once every couple years; suggests that have a strong marriage and saves us from a divorce storyline.

[DebbieM4]

19 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Kate's comment at the party - "Randall has made it perfectly clear who is more important to him".  Ummm... a wife comes first, don 't get why she is upset about that.

I thought that was really childish.   I suppose it has something to do with the death of her father, but honestly I'm tired of that being her excuse for everything.  Of course a wife is supposed to come first.   Is she not planning to have Toby as her #1 priority?  Are her brothers going to come first?  Because that will not be good.

14 hours ago, Empress1 said:

 

Why would Kevin assume he was cut out altogether? He said half his scenes were with the actress. That leaves another half, and even the actress said "cut out or reduced." He didn't hear from Ron Howard, so why make that leap?

 

That bothered me too.  All he had to go by was what the actress had said about herself.  He made a giant leap and then acted as though he knew for sure.  It didn't sound like anywhere near enough information to me, and I would think that someone who had made a living as a successful and famous actor would realize that.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, I felt like the whole storyline was something that would have occurred a long time ago if Kate was really upset about all this, since it isn't as if Randall's marriage is some new dynamic she needs to learn to maneuver.  I also agree that Kate doesn't seem to understand how marriage works.  I would think most marriages where the husband and/or wife prioritized their siblings over their spouse would not end well. 

I agree.  I have two brothers, and good relationships with both of them.  We've been through quite a lot together, and I know they have my back and they know I will always have theirs.  But I expect them to put their wives first, and they do.  It's never crossed my mind even for a second that it should be any other way.  (When I was married, my husband was most definitely my #1 priority, and it would have been very odd IMO if my brothers had not understood and expected that.)

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

 

I really think the maid scene would've been better if he'd finished his monologue and she'd pulled out a key and said, "How about I just lock the cabinet and take the tip now?"  

 

I would have loved that!  His monologue was ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure most maids would have said, "I'll just take the bottles now". 

But I like your suggestion!  :-)

[Cardie]

I'll bet Randall and Beth will move Deja and her Mom into their building. Also, when Kevin's war movie premieres, we will probably start getting flashbacks of Jack in Vietnam.

Otherwise I, too, found the episode a snooze except for the novelty of seeing Kate and Beth together.

My nerd friends and I also used to socialize at the library. Smart phones have probably destroyed many great hangout spots.

[TGinKY]

I have never understood the courts' stance that no matter what, a child should stay with their mother. Deja does not belong with a mother who cannot take care of her. No child does. :(

[bros402]

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

And he paid $49.99  for it after  telling the store owner a sweet story about how much his wife's singing means to him.

Well duh. Either that, or he helped a little old lady move out, he mentioned that his wife sings, and she was like "oh, that old thing? It's yours!"

18 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

I may be in the minority, but I'm not a fan of Kevin.  That whole soliloquy with the maid about the 27 bottles of booze was ridiculous.  I'm sure she had many rooms to clean and didn't give a rat's butt about his alcoholism.  It's Kevin's World and we just live in it (eye roll).

And Toby telling Kevin to call Ron Howard was just bad advice.  I almost wished that Kevin's role in the film had been cut out.  Everything always ends up working out for the golden boy.

Beth looked gorgeous with her hair down.  Kate, well, I'm sorry but she looks like she is getting even heavier.  When she was sitting on the couch with Toby in that flowered dress, she just looked so uncomfortable.  I really hope she loses weight, not for vanity reasons, but for her health.

I imagine they saw Kevin's name on the reservation list and were like "hey if it's the Manny make sure you pay attention to him and treat him like royalty!"

16 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

We just did service work at a homeless shelter this week and MANY of the men had cell phones. 

It was an eye opening experience for me and my son...and lots of these men in the shelter DO have jobs (day labor, etc)...the money just isn't enough for housing. 

The experience also taught me that not all homeless people have a shopping cart of their possessions and live under a bridge. 

Which brings me to...couldn't Deja and her mom go to a shelter? 

I'm in NJ, went through Newark train station for three years for college. Many homeless people there. Sometimes social workers would go through the train station giving homeless people pamphlets on shelters, then the people would yell at them "THOSE DAMN SHELTERS ARE ALWAYS FULL, NO SPACE FOR ANYONE SO WHY YOU TEASING ME"

And when my college held its graduation ceremony at NJ PAC, I had a seizure, was brought to the hospital and next curtain over in the ER was a homeless woman who broke her hip. Doctor and social worker were there - doctor was like "okay so she can just go into a shelter once we discharge her, right?" and the social worker was like "No, the shelters are packed!"

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Shelters could be full. They're in Newark, which has no shortage of homeless people. 

Re: her cell phone, there are low-income cell phone provider programs. You're eligible for one if you receive certain government assistance, like Medicaid (which I would guess Deja and her mom have) or SNAP (which, ditto - and you can be working and receive SNAP. Many people who have SNAP also have jobs). I wouldn't expect her to have an iPhone because the cost of the phone itself could be prohibitive, but her having a cell phone isn't odd to me.

Yeah, there's the Lifeline program here in NJ. I get medicaid & SSI, I get info about it like 6 months making sure I know about it. Phones are free, service is free. A good chunk of the phone are smart phones, none are iPhones, they are usually random manufacturers flashed with Android. However, I would not be surprised at all if Randall & Beth gave Deja an old phone they had lying around, and Deja put in the SIM card from the Lifeline program.

[bros402]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

So true, I get so tired of hearing about how everyone is beating the system and "they" get so much free stuff.  I had family and friends on SNAP, medicaid and other social service and most aren't doing that. The news likes to highlight the worst. I see a lot working in healthcare. One patient who was an old friend from childhood where I work, who was talking about his premiums and how his friend gets medicaid and food stamps and bought a steak (horrors) and has subsidized housing, etc. I politely asked if he'd like to trade places. He paused for about 30 seconds and said No. I told him many doctor's don't take Medicaid, his care with his premiums is better, subsidized housing isn't always taken care of and food stamps, if he's alone and not denying his children food, can be used for meat and how he divides up the money is a personal thing the same as he does his own money.  It's very hard to get a break or get out of debt when you do get a job.  I try to always not judge, hard as it is at times and hope our child services and health care  and job opportunities get much better.

 

Yeah, some people's views on public assistance are.... very odd. I've been spending the last week calling so many people to get medicaid to cover my seizure medication, since I was facing a loss of private coverage under my mom's insurance (Luckily, some people pulled strings, and got my disability waiver for private insurance approved).

Edited March 1, 2018 by bros402

[debraran]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

Yeah, some people's views on public assistance are.... very odd. I've been spending the last week calling so many people to get medicaid to cover my seizure medication, since I was facing a loss of private coverage under my mom's insurance (Luckily, some people pulled strings, and got my disability waiver for private insurance approved).

 

I'm glad. My daughter will be off ours in August and she has asthma medication that can be pricey but not like yours I'm sure. She is doing an Americorps/Vista program and they told her to apply for Medicaid until she can try the healthcare exchange. (I told her to start early) She also qualifies for SNAP but I can help her with food. I laughed when my very conservative nephew who constantly had my sister bail him out, give him numerous down payments for rent and later a home, talk about the "leaches" out there.  I think if you can help a loved one, great but some people don't have a person to help them or they are as poor as they are. To take from family and then make fun of others who need help, it just makes me shake my head.  If he was on his own, really on his own, I know my nephew would not feel the same way while he looked for an apartment or needed gas money or down payment for a car.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

Edited March 1, 2018 by debraran

[QQQQ]

I hope spotting the crockpot becomes a TIU Easter egg. I love looking for pineapples in Psych, Hitchcock cameos, etc.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I agree with all of this.

I didn't like this episode - and most of the people - when I watched last night.  So I watched again today, hoping it had just been my mood, because I really wanted to give it a second chance.  It was better, but not much.  Yes, Randall and Kevin were really unkind to Toby - and selfish.  What is up with this family and constantly walking out on big events?  I find that so odd when we're supposed to believe that they love and care about each other.   Randall and Kevin are adults and should have been able to put on their party faces, and - at least for Kate's sake - show abit of enthusiasm even if they had to fake it.  It was jarring to me that they couldn't be bothered to even try.

I agree also re the grand gestures.  It's overkill at this point, and doesn't ring true so it does nothing to ingratiate me to Jack, or to Jack & Rebecca as a couple.  Too much been there, done that.  It's time to move on.

Me too, they are getting near the "gag" reflex area, don't overdo it.  I see they put the crock pot in this episode but I never saw it looking at some other old photos of the kitchen but might have missed it. I felt they might do it now in flashback to make it more realistic.  Her using it though, that would be weird. ; )

I don't know what they are trying to show, but it does make this family seem very selfish. They have grand exits, ignore each other and then play up when someone makes a grand gesture to help, as with Kevin/Randall breakdown and having Randall and Beth just drop in on Deja and miraculously find them right outside. 

They are having Kate more dimensional but the "poor me" was wearing thin, at 37 blaming her mom for her issues and her weight on others when she controls how she reacts to people and her weight. If she can't, then she should get help. I'm sorry they cut out therapy scenes and she didn't get help earlier, 20 years is a long time to stay 18. Kevin tempting himself so early, time will tell, but maybe he'll be an exception to the rule. I really thought the whole liquor bottle scene was awful.  Always the actor, always the speech, just like dad. ; )

Edited March 1, 2018 by debraran

[Baltimore Betty]

Randall walking in to the Magic Mike show and seeing Beth on stage...so fake, without a ticket nobody just walks in to a show in Vegas.

Kevin and the mini bar was stupid, why wouldn't he just ask the maid to remove all of the bottles?  

The bachelor and bachelorette party thing in Vegas seems like it's done to death, the hype about how wild it will get rarely pans out to the  what actually happens.  Kate does not even seem like someone who even likes Vegas.

After Rebecca joked about Patrick Swayze hiding in the closet we saw Kevin doing sit ups in his hotel room wearing a black tank top and black pants...so, so, Swayze from Dirty Dancing, lol.

I still drink Cosmos and now I am hanging my head in shame.

[Jeddah]

5 hours ago, TGinKY said:

I have never understood the courts' stance that no matter what, a child should stay with their mother. Deja does not belong with a mother who cannot take care of her. No child does. :(

I have never understood the stance that instead of having a social safety net or combatting systemic poverty the system should just take poor people’s kids away from them.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I have never understood the stance that instead of having a social safety net or combatting systemic poverty the system should just take poor people’s kids away from them.

So many people are one health crisis or job loss away from being homeless, and they should lose their children into the system on top of it?  I think that makes little sense, and there's a cost to the children, to the parent, and a monetary cost to society that could be redirected to a better use. 

[TGinKY]

No child should have to grow up with a drug addict parent. My father was a violent alcoholic so my mom finally left him but I still remember those horrible nights. I still remember the electricity being turned off and having no food to eat. Hopefully, family members can take in a child like my grandmother did us. If that is not possible, then yes foster care is the answer.  It really messes you up as a child.  No child should feel like they have to take care of their parent. It's totally backward.

[luna1122]

I was so excited to hear local band Houndmouth (I'm in Louisville, they originated across the river in Indiana, and play here often, and my honey's bandmate tours with them occasionally) played during this episode!!

 

I found this episode okay, tho the whole 'bachelor/ette' party in vegas thing is so played out, and so expensive, and half these people don't seem to have jobs, but whatever. I was really close to one of my sisters in law when my bro was married, but the subsequent one: no. Plus, they never lived in the same city, did they? So Kate and Beth never actually bonding or getting to know each other all that well seemed pretty realistic to me. Randall and Beth's fight was ugly and it was selfish of them to do that right in the middle of Kate's party,  so when Kate was trying to calm them down, I was rooting for her, until the 'he likes you more than me!!' moment. Ugh, Kate. Beth telling her to butt out cuz it was none of her business pissed me off too--you made it her business when you decide to have a screeching fight right in front of her at her own bachelorette party. Ugh, Beth. And is Randall just never NOT morose? Ugh, Randall.

[Katy M]

27 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

and half these people don't seem to have jobs

Would half these people be Kate and Kevin?   Whether or not Kevin is working at the moment, he definitely has enough money not to sweat it. 

[ShelleySue]

When Kate was talking to Randall about them watching Sex and The City she said something about Kevin not being there.  During Kevin's group therapy session Rebecca also said something about that too.  Have I missed an explanation of where Kevin was?  If not, I'd prefer seeing that to Deja's backstory.

[DearEvette]

On 2/28/2018 at 7:04 AM, Trillian said:

The whole time Randall was in Vegas obsessing about Deja, I kept thinking “how are Tess and Annie doing, Randall?  Remember them?  Even if they’re safe with Rebecca and Miguel or with friends, shouldn’t you remember you have your own kids?”

I am sure he does but you don't obsess about the kid that is safe and ok as much as you might be concerned about one who isn't.  He has the luxury of knowing that Tess and Annie are safe with their grandma, Deja had just called him with some news that raised red flags and alarmed him a bit.  Given her past she is in a more precarious situation than they are.  I know when I leave my kids with their grandparents to go on an overnight with my husband I don't obsess over their safety.  I call them and wish them a good night before going to bed and remind them to be good.  That's it.  If one wasn't feeling well or some other situation arose with one that is outside the norm, then yeah I'd call more, keep checking on him and cut the trip short.

[topanga]

8 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I thought that was really childish.   I suppose it has something to do with the death of her father, but honestly I'm tired of that being her excuse for everything.  Of course a wife is supposed to come first.   Is she not planning to have Toby as her #1 priority?  Are her brothers going to come first?  Because that will not be good.

 

2 hours ago, debraran said:

They are having Kate more dimensional but the "poor me" was wearing thin, at 37 blaming her mom for her issues and her weight on others when she controls how she reacts to people and her weight. If she can't, then she should get help. I'm sorry they cut out therapy scenes and she didn't get help earlier, 20 years is a long time to stay 18.

Yes, her words were childish, but I understood her better when Randall and Kate talked. Kate felt like she lost Randall to Beth, when he was the person who was most be her side after Jack died. And Kevin was with Sophie—she kinds lost both of them. So I’m sure she has serious abandonment issues. But why the heck isn’t Kate in therapy, dealing with these deep-seeded issues? Especially before she gets married? Because those feelings and memories don’t magically evaporate.

 

13 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

Deja had already been in foster care at least twice: Once with Randall and Beth, and an earlier foster home where there was violence which left her scared of men touching her or making sudden moves. That prior history could have Deja and her mom worried that social services could see Deja being homeless in the winter as endangering her.

And I’m fanwanking that their homelessness was a recent thing. 

In terms of Beth and Randall knowing where to find them, I agree that they probably looked for a relatively safe parking lot close to their building. 

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I get that it's a different experience, and she feels that fostering is hard to do.  Understandable.  BUT I found "the hardest thing I've ever done" to be an eye-roll worthy line. This is a woman who graduated college and then got a master's (years of hard work), has a successful marriage with a man who dwells on perfectionism and has issues from his childhood family life that make him not an easy person to live and raise a family with, has handled two pregnancies and been a parent for some years now (physical strain and hard work), has handled her husband moving his dying biological father into their home and then Randall's subsequent breakdown after they all got attached to the man. Yet taking care of troubled young Deja, getting attached and then letting her go in a period of weeks or months, was totally harder than all of her previous much longer term life experiences. Yeah. Okay. Surrrreeee.  Now, if Deja had been a part of their lives since early Season 1, I could think that line has a shred of credibility. 

I don't know - I have two graduate degrees and would never qualify them as being particularly hard - as I loved being a student and it was my thing. As it seems to be Beth's. For me, as a person who's done most of those things on the list (in addition to burying both siblings and parents, and navigating the social care system when my father was put into assisted housing), the things I expect in life - even if they're hard - they're not as hard as having to take care of someone while being governed by rules, regulations, from an outside agency and knowing that even if you start to love them, you have no rights to them at all. So being forced to let go is, to me, is pretty hard.

10 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Randall once said that despite hearing how difficult things would be as an adult, they ended up being pretty easy, including having children.  And later, he told Beth that their girls were good and would remain that way simply because their parents had raised them well, or something like that.  

Obviously Randall is grandiose and doesn't speak for everyone, but I have never heard anyone say that raising kids is easy.  Ever.  If anything, I hear the opposite.  So I find it amusing that he's finally experiencing some difficulties with parenting.

Up until now, I imagine it was relatively easy to raise those girls. They seem to be pretty much the model of perfection. Raising my two wasn't that hard until they started having minds of their own. ;)

[Aloeonatable]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Kevin and the mini bar was stupid, why wouldn't he just ask the maid to remove all of the bottles? 

Testing himself? Sometimes it is good to see how strong you are when confronted with the temptation. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

When Kate was talking to Randall about them watching Sex and The City she said something about Kevin not being there.  During Kevin's group therapy session Rebecca also said something about that too.  Have I missed an explanation of where Kevin was?  If not, I'd prefer seeing that to Deja's backstory.

It's been hinted many times that Kevin took off shortly after graduation. He married Sophie right out of high school and presumably moved to New York. I imagine, the months even leading up to graduation, Kevin probably avoided being around his family and likely spent all of his time with Sophie. 

10 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I thought that was really childish.   I suppose it has something to do with the death of her father, but honestly I'm tired of that being her excuse for everything.  Of course a wife is supposed to come first.   Is she not planning to have Toby as her #1 priority?  Are her brothers going to come first?  Because that will not be good.

Kate seemed to regret saying that as soon as it left her mouth. Sometimes, these feelings cannot be helped, and her and Randall talked it out afterward. It's much how I side eyed Beth telling Kate to butt out of her and Randall's fight, despite them fighting at Kate's bachelorette party right in front of her. Plus, Kate doesn't get it yet because she's only engaged. Once she marries Toby, she'll understand. I give Kate a pass because she regretted her words right away. It's like how I dismissed Randall's poorly choiced words about Beth being detached. 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I found myself wondering who's going to play this 20-something younger brother of his.  I assume they're holding him back for future story line potential. 

The brother would be 30-something. Toby mentioned at some point - I'm not sure whether in this season or the last - that he's 42.

[WhosThatGirl]

Toby also has a sister too! Remember in the episode when Kate got her singing gig and she and Rebecca had a spat, Toby opened up with “I have a sister. She and my mom..” and then trailed off.

[ShadowFacts]

26 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Toby also has a sister too! Remember in the episode when Kate got her singing gig and she and Rebecca had a spat, Toby opened up with “I have a sister. She and my mom..” and then trailed off.

Maybe we'll meet them all at the wedding, which, do we know if it's going to be in California or New Jersey?  If California, all the Pearsons will be flying again.  They travel a lot.

2 hours ago, topanga said:

And I’m fanwanking that their homelessness was a recent thing. 

In terms of Beth and Randall knowing where to find them, I agree that they probably looked for a relatively safe parking lot close to their building. 

There's a lot we have to find out about how they came to be evicted.  Do we know that Deja's mom is an addict?  I'm asking, because I know she wasn't in jail for that, and I'm wondering if I missed dialogue indicating that she was.  Eviction usually takes awhile to do legally, unless it is fast-tracked because of some emergency, in which case police may be involved and would notify social services that a minor is now on the street.  Even if mom is an addict, addicts need treatment, including homeless ones.  And she may not have paid rent due to reasons other than spending on drugs.  I guess we'll see, but the focus is on getting Deja back into the Pearson orbit and that's not going to happen if everything is fine and dandy with her. 

[DearEvette]

I am not getting the vibe the mom was an addict.  Maybe it is just a simple case of her being an ex-con who can't get a job?  Or can't get one that covers her rent & other expenses adequately.  How much time has passed since Deja wet back to her mom and now?  She could have been accruing back rent and late fees for awhile.

[TV Diva Queen]

15 hours ago, wallofsound said:

I was rolling my eyes so hard at the beginning of the episode with the bowling alley/grand gesture montage.   If I had a nickel for each time one of them said ‘babe’.    I would hate these two in real life.  

Kevin’s monologue with the hotel maid was ridiculous.   Just tell the lady to remove the bottles.   End. of. story.   

I was happy to watch Randall and Beth have a more realistic exchange this episode.   Their communication is always so amazingly perfect and respectful.  Finally Beth calls him a neurotic mess who is exhausting to deal with.   Yet he is still vindicated when it turns out Deja was actually in trouble.   Can the man ever be wrong?  He’s like Jack Part Deux - always shown in a good light     

Thank you!!!!!  They are an exhausting couple....no wonder they have no friends.  I just can't with them.  

14 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

It was funny when she called them "Mike and Molly", too. 

LOL - and what about the shirts she had made for the girls.  Something like "I love Toby Dick" with a pic of a whale on it.  

[GSMHvisitor]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's been hinted many times that Kevin took off shortly after graduation. He married Sophie right out of high school and presumably moved to New York. I imagine, the months even leading up to graduation, Kevin probably avoided being around his family and likely spent all of his time with Sophie.

That's how I interpreted the bits and pieces we got about post-Jack's-death Kevin too. And I agree with the previous poster that I'd rather see that confirmed and explored than Deja's story. Whether Sophie comes back or not (and I might be in the minority who thinks and hopes she does), I really need the writers to show more of her relationship with Kevin in the past. The poor girl doesn't even get lines as a teenager, but I'm actually interested in the Kevin/Sophie dynamic. She's supposed to be the love of his life, but I want to see why.

[possibilities]

Kate has been shown to put Kevin first before Toby, so I didn't find her blurting that stuff about Randall putting Beth first to be out of character. Of course, she's wrong, and she realized that. It wasn't her finest moment, but she did finally see what she was doing and apologize, which is more than we usually get from her.

If fostering was easy, more people would do it. I wish they would. But hardly anyone is willing, and there is a severe shortage of decent foster homes relative to the number of children who need a placement. Compared the number of people who pursue and embrace caregiving children they conceive themselves, I think it's perfectly fair to say that fostering is more difficult. And of course Randall doesn't fret as much about the children he sees every day and knows are safe and sound and well cared for. He worries about Deja more because he knows she's in a challenging situation and he can't monitor it or reassure himself that she's OK. A child her age, with her history, dropping off the radar for months, appearing to ask for help with getting heat, disappears again, then randomly calls him to say she's checking on him... I totally get why he was worried.

I don't get why he didn't call her back and ask her if she needed help, tell her he's worried, reassure her that even from Vegas he would do anything he could to make sure she's safe. That's the part that struck me as plot-driven to create drama between him and Beth, and totally out of character.

Still, I liked how he and Beth fought it out and worked it out.

I like Deja's story. I find it more credible and more complex than most of the Pearson's drama.

I thought Kevin was doing his stunt with the housekeeping staff in order to prove to himself that he could handle it, but also as a way of getting a witness to counter his public relations problem. Now Renata (was that her name?) can gossip about how The Manny really is in recovery, he didn't touch the mini bar, even though it was well-stocked and not locked. He needed to incentivize himself to leave it alone by getting someone to hold him accountable, and he wanted someone to spread the word that he really is sober now.

Of course, he could have left the minibar alone and gotten drunk or high outside his room, but it made a good story for him to have her tell for his media strategy. There would be other witnesses to his public behavior, but no one to vouch for his sobriety in private.

[MamaBird]

Was I the only one whose “foreknowledge” made the roof scene painful? There they were, lying on the roof looking at the stars, and all I could think about was the family climbing out that same bedroom window to escape the fire. I thought “I wonder if a memory of this night flashed through Rebecca’s mind as she and her family huddled out there.”