S03.E11: Fort Rozz

[MarkHB]

Quote

As Reign continues to terrorize the city, Supergirl teams up with Saturn Girl, and the two recruit Supergirl’s former enemies, Livewire and Psi, to form a team for a mission to Fort Rozz to recover a prisoner who has information on how to defeat Reign once and for all. Meanwhile, Alex babysits Ruby.

[mtlchick]

RIP Livewire who looks a lot like Holly Hunter.  I was actually bummed she got killed off. 

[Winston Wolfe]

Solid episode, well-balanced and with good pacing.  Snark time: at least the writers found a fairly creative way to side-line MM this time.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[bettername2come]

I'll miss Livewire. I liked her best in season one, but I'm happy with her character development. I regret never getting a scene between her and Killer Frost. They'd have gotten along well. Glad for Psi getting her nicer room. 

I'm going to need Alex to figure out Sam's secret identity sooner rather than later. They can't keep dragging this out.

[Lady Calypso]

Aww man, not Leslie! I'm gonna miss Livewire a lot. I thought she was a formidable villain, and she had such an awesome dynamic with Supergirl. That stinks.

On another note, it seems like the discovery of Sam as Reign is coming up. I can't imagine she's not found out in the next two episodes. 

The return of Psi was pretty cool, though I wished there was more of her and Imra. I actually love the excuse that they had to have an all girls mission. Way better than how they handled the all female stuff on The Flash, as this time, it wasn't treated like some Very Special Episode.

I also didn't hate Alex/Ruby, since their scenes were minimal. But yeah, I don't need any more scenes with these two. 

The last Kara/Mon-El scene was...tolerable. Part of me wished it had been Winn instead, as the poor guy keeps getting so little to do. At least this episode, he got to one-up Brainy. I would have been more annoyed, but since I don't read the comics, and since Winn's literally gotten nothing of importance to do all season, I'll take what I can get. 

[tennisgurl]

My only real complaint this week is that Livewire died, when she could have been nice to have around as a reoccurring ally. I liked her bonding with Kara, and she was a fun character to have around. 

Other than that, this was a really solid episode. I enjoyed all three plots, and the characters worked well together. I liked the four women on the space mission (and they handled the planet that kills men thing with a decent amount of fun and didn't go crazy with the #feminism stuff) and their dynamics, although, again, it really sucks that Livewire had to die. Theres a reason comics dont normally kill people off for real, the characters are more fun alive than dead! And Irma got more to do and showed more of her personality, and the return of Psi was welcomes as well. Glad that she gets a nicer room now. 

Winn finally gets a bone thrown after having nothing to do this season by getting to one up Brainy and save the day. I hope we get more of them hanging out/trying to one up each other, they could have a fun dynamic as the resident smart guys. Also loved Winns face when J'onn told him he did a good job. He was practically glowing. I also continue to like Brainy, and I hope the rest of the Legion will show up at some point. Are they still just hanging out in the freezer?

The babysitter Alex part was the least interesting, but not bad at all. 

[Oreo2234]

Livewire was possibly the most entertaining Supergirl villain, and she would have been a good occasional ally, so its a shame they killed her off. I wonder if that was the actresses' choice? Although Supergirl has a real problem with killing off potentially good/great villains after an episode so maybe were lucky she lasted this long. 

Maybe I'm wrong but don't Kryptonians also get powers from blue stars (or pretty much any star but red) in the comics?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Oreo2234

[cambridgeguy]

Supergirl, you're about to go on a mission where you won't have your powers and half your team are bad guys.  You want to wear some armor?  No?  How about bringing along a weapon?  No?  How about not wearing your regular costume since your S is a bullseye?  No? 

[Primal Slayer]

For the most part this episode was really mediocre until the last 15mins when they went up against Reign. That was actually a damn good fight scene and Reign getting hit by a Psi blast was such a good acting scene. 

Livewire was written to perfection and made for a good reoccurring character so Im pissed to see them kill her off but I guess when I look at her solely she had a good 4 episode arc. Certainly did more with her then Arrow has done with Black Siren over half a season. The show really needs a Livewire type character full time. a Cordelia to her Buffy
 

It is incredibly frustrating how they keep sidelining J'onn. Either let him help in the field or just get rid of him.

[Lantern7]

Well, there's the Brainiac 5 most people have read . . . really smart, even more irritable. Of course, if any of us were sent back to the year 1018, we'd be short on stuff like Brainy is now. And Winn got the turning point done, which has got to chap Brainy's weird-colored ass.

"Okay, we have a deep space mission. Oh, and anybody with a Y-chromosome dies." How?!? I mean, would it be a given that all life adheres closely to what we know, even the life that is way out there? Do Martians have chromosomes and/or similar DNA to humans? I have more of a problem with that than Reign flying from Earth to Fort Rozz. At least Live Wire went out a hero, and Psi (whom I do not remember) broke Reign for about a minute. Oh, and now there's another human-looking woman who's basically massive destruction on two legs. BTW, where was her friend afterward? I imagine the lady squirming between the crashed cars, and the friend running as far as she can go, as fast as she can run.

Is it a spoiler to say that Sam dies at season's end, and Alex adopts Ruby? Because it's way too sprocking obvious at this point. They're a good team . . . at least until Alex starts telling a bully about getting arrested. That was overkill. Funny overkill, though. And Ruby a few feet away trying not to laugh was a sweet bonus.

Heh . . . "Matilda." If Doctor Who teaches us anything, it's that everybody will sound British in the far-flung future.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Lantern7

[tennisgurl]

Its kind of funny, in a sad way. When Kara started giving Livewire a "I know theres good in you, I think you are deep down not a bad person" speech, it immediately reminded me of the pep talks Barry used to give Snart back in The Flash, and how that didn't exactly end well (I mean, it worked and he did become a better person, which is great but he also sacrificed himself and tragically blew into smithereens, which was less great), so maybe Kara should be careful. Then the episode came to its climax, and...

[jmonique]

Hey, remember in the first season, when Kara got to talk to her friends and bond with them and stuff?

You know, before Mary Sue Mon El was able to make it all about him and say all the right things?

Good times.

[UNOSEZ]

Yeah I coylda fast forwarded to the last ten or so.. Cuz going in all I cared abt whas finding out abt the other world killers.. And now gotta wait another week.. Bleh livewires hair was nuts but I guess that's the point... Psi was cool.. No James no lena.. Barely any winn or j'onn.. Mainly filler will check back nxt week and hope with the intro of another worldkiller stuff gets interesting.. And plz don't tease a rekindling of mon El and kara or imra watching them from a corner getting kinda jealous 

6 minutes ago, jmonique said:

Hey, remember in the first season, when Kara got to talk to her friends and bond with them and stuff?

You know, before Mary Sue Mon El was able to make it all about him and say all the right things?

Good times.

LMAO... and for a sec I thought they were gonna let it be.. But like clockwork.. Here's the end if the epi and who's talking to kara.. Not winn.. Not J'onn... Not lena.. Sure as he'll not James as he can't get within 10 ft of her alone anymore... It's Mon El.. Who btw was awesome and with his advice.. And it gets me mad that the writers write he and kara in a way that makes me not even want them speaking to each other fir fear of what may come

[Cthulhudrew]

45 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Is it a spoiler to say that Sam dies at season's end, and Alex adopts Ruby? Because it's way too sprocking obvious at this point. They're a good team . . . at least until Alex starts telling a bully about getting arrested. That was overkill. Funny overkill, though. And Ruby a few feet away trying not to laugh was a sweet bonus.

Yeah- this seems like the logical conclusion to Alex's "wanna have a kid" arc and the Reign storyline. I didn't see it coming until now, but this episode pretty much foreshadowed it.

Kind of stinks that Livewire was killed off, but I suppose her death would be fairly easy to undo. She's mostly an electrical being now, after all.

Interesting that they had Sarah "Ursa" Douglas play the evil priestess, though that whole storyline ultimately ended up being a dead-end. (Literally.)

Edited January 23, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[tinnefoil]

I really, really hate that so far every time there was a girl team up, there had to be a reason. On Flash it was because it was a Bachelorette party, on Legends it was because Helen’s power affected the men and now on Supergirl it’s because of magic anti Y chromosome radiation (why do Daxamites and Martians and Coluans all have Y chromosomes btw?). I think that’s why I dug Amaya, Zari and Killer Frost teaming up for their little rescue in the crossover. Because there was no reason for why it was all women. They just had enough female cast and those just happened to be the most capable people at hand and they just happened to be all women by accident. Rather than there needing to be a reason why they team up (for the record, I’m not counting Iris and Felicity saving Kara because the reason this team up exists is because they are being victimized/because as wives/girlfriends they were left out of the normal action)

What I got from this episode is that the Legion is still useless. Imra spent most of her time on the ship. Winn figured out the solution to their problem, not Brainy. I genuinely expected Imra and Kara to have an actual, like conversation. Instead Kara and Leslie got one. Psi mindblasting Imra felt like foreshadowing to me. Is Imra really purely telekinetic now rather than telepathic like in the comics and cartoons and everywhere else? 

Poor Livewire. 

Alex/Ruby ... existed. It wasn’t a bad scene or anything, but you know, it’s Ruby. Also, why would bully girl show up again? Also: FINALLY Sam confides in somebody about the lost time. I’ve been complaining about that ever since her first "episode" where she started noticing physical changes, but particularly the one where Ruby actually walked in on her. Especially since they simultaneously want us to believe that she is friends with Kara and Lena (rather than just saying: she is new in town, she has nobody to confide in). Honestly? At this point I’m fanwanking that Sam doesn’t actually consider Lena and Kara friends, she just plays along because she is worried for her job. 

I’m sad that the other Worldkillers are not awake yet. I kinda wish they would have been, but off world. Especially since they already said that Sam was late for her wake up at age 18. 

Overall the episode was entertaining, but from an action point of view the fight against the random inmate felt pretty useless and the priestess was gone immediately. (I wonder if holo priestess is gonna be mad about that, or whether that was always the intention anyway, since they didn’t want people to find out about the plan) 

Quote

 Mary Sue Mon El 

How is Mon-El a Mary Sue? All he did was give some speech. He hasn't done anything overly meaningful since he came back. He didn't do anything meaningful in the fight against Reign, he contributed nothing to solving the problems in this episode, that glory went to Winn and of course the ladies. Sorry, my litmus for what a Mary Sue is, is a lot higher. 

So what if he invented the Legion, he had 7 off screen years to achieve that. I don't see how that is more Mary Sue-ish than James going from photographer to running CatCo or Sam just being handed the job of running L-Corp despite apparently never working. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by tinnefoil

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Oreo2234 said:

Maybe I'm wrong but don't Kryptonians also get powers from blue stars (or pretty much any star but red) in the comics?

You are correct.  The only two exceptions of which I am aware are orange and green.  An orange sun will cut a Kryptonian's powers in half because it's less intense than a yellow sun, and a green sun has the same effect as a red sun (no powers at all).

Edited January 23, 2018 by legaleagle53

[tinnefoil]

I think they wanted to have Reign kill some people to establish that she's a real threat (and probably to close the door on some sort of "everything is just fine" redemption because she "only" murdered people we have never met before). They don't want somebody who is a regular to die, so they picked somebody we vaguely know. 

[opus]

She could have killed James. I not sure he qualifies as a regular anymore.

[bettername2come]

18 minutes ago, opus said:

She could have killed James. I not sure he qualifies as a regular anymore.

So sad. So true.

[thuganomics85]

Livewire's back!  And.... she's dead now.  Bummer.  I wonder if it was just to establish how big of a threat Reign is or if Brit Morgan isn't going to have time to do one-offs anymore (maybe her character on Riverdale is coming back?)  Either way, I'll kind of miss her and her twisted relationship with Kara.  At least Psi made it out in one piece and even got a better room out of it!  I liked her scenes with Imra.  In general, I'm really liking Imra (helps that Amy Jackson is truly stunning), and I'm going to be so sad for her when Mon-El dumps her ass for Kara again (still think that's totally happening.)

Brainy and Winn!  Now, there's a duo I want to see more of.  They even let Winn play a big part in reestablishing contact with the ship, which was nice, because I was starting to think the show wasn't going to actually let Winn do anything other then provide technobabble. 

Alex and Ruby was a nice way to catch some quick catnaps.  This is so going to end with Alex adopting her, right?

Really surprised over how much Gregory Smith has improved as an action director after his first time on Arrow years ago.

Lena gets a brief scene and a whole bunch of texts.  Jimmy was probably just twirling around his chair and twiddling his thumbs, for all the show uses him.  While everyone else looks forward to each script to see how much screen time they get, Mehcad Brooks is the only who is like "Lets see if I even appear in this episode!" about it.  If you can't figure out what to do with him, please free the poor guy, show.

[UNOSEZ]

I hate how they've done James and ive given up on the he only thing I've wanted since season two began.. Which was a real talj tween Kara and James abt how she dumped him for "reasons" like finding kara or some nonsense.. Then spent the season ignoring him and falling deeply in love with Mon El... In James' Face... But the show prob won't let him go and as the cw just moved another of it's under used blk Folk to another show maybe jax can come to whatever earth kara is on.. With powers and be a hero there.. It's as plausible as the Prince of kryptons rival planet showing up and taking over the show.. It's not like kara does anything at catco anymore anyway... Another idea... A father daughter show with just J'onn and Alex and maybe Myrnn as well

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

My only real complaint this week is that Livewire died, when she could have been nice to have around as a reoccurring ally. I liked her bonding with Kara, and she was a fun character to have around. 

I think the episode would have been meaningless if she hadn't sacrificed herself. For all her mockery and deflection, she finally truly understood Supergirl in that moment where Supergirl offered her life for hers. And the comment about Reign attacking her friends took on a double-meaning because of that. I think we were also supposed to wonder if her going straight also meant more than she'd admitted too.

Supergirl's compassion for Livewire in previous episodes, and her willingness to sacrifice herself for her in this episode changed her, but Livewire not dying would have turned this whole episode into weaksauce.  It wasn't just that she was capable of change, but of self-sacrifice. That was the whole point of it. Keeping the possibility of sacrifice but not the actuality would have removed any and all poignancy from this.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Kromm

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

No James no lena..

Lena falls into the "barely any" category this week... she was there to give Sam the assignment she failed at and also a hug.

Beyond that, I am PISSED at Livewire's death (assuming there isn't some Lazarus Capacitor somewhere).  That is all.

[Stuffy]

When I first started reading everyone’s comments I was thinking, “Who the hell is Irma?”  I worked it out though. The funny thing is during the episode I was thinking “Her name isn’t really Matilda is it?”  I guess the character isn’t clicking with me. 

Also Mon-El didn’t bother me last year and now I’m waiting for him to go away. I realized I didn’t miss him the first 1/2 of the season. Also he’s married so Supergirl and his relationship is pretty much dead to me now. He’s not really needed anymore so show the other characters. I always lose interest when 2/3 of a triangle gets married. 

[tinnefoil]

Lena was in this episode? I genuinely blinked and missed her. What did she do? 

[Kromm]

7 minutes ago, Stuffy said:

When I first started reading everyone’s comments I was thinking, “Who the hell is Irma?”  I worked it out though. The funny thing is during the episode I was thinking “Her name isn’t really Matilda is it?”  I guess the character isn’t clicking with me. 

Also Mon-El didn’t bother me last year and now I’m waiting for him to go away. I realized I didn’t miss him the first 1/2 of the season. Also he’s married so Supergirl and his relationship is pretty much dead to me now. He’s not really needed anymore so show the other characters. I always lose interest when 2/3 of a triangle gets married. 

I can't say I quite agree. I think Imra is a fascinating character, and she's been really well handled. And the show told us straight out that it wasn't going to fall prey to the cliche of the new girlfriend being a nightmare. Instead the new girlfriend is worthy, making the dilemma even tougher. They've shown she's brave, principled. and compassionate. Mon-El is frankly the more boring part of that duo. I think he was awful last season, and somewhat better this season, but he's already been eclipsed by the two other Legionnaires, who are both more interesting and better viewing than him.  So I guess I kind of agree he doesn't even feels necessary, but I doubt we could keep Imra and Brainy on the show without him. So we need him for that connection.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Kromm

[bmoore4026]

Live Wire!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I knew my hope of Imra and Psi swapping bodies was a false one, but I held on to it nonetheless.

[Trini]

Ugh -- COME ON -- I figured about halfway through one of the villianesses was going to die, but I was hoping it would be Psi; because WHY would you kill off the fun one?! Just when she got a better wig, too!

If Supergirl needed female backup, she knows at least one female Martian....

So a sun that kills off males? That's... convenient? And weirdly specific? But I did like the team-up of women, though.

Um, so HOW did Fort Rozz get all the way to a completely different solar system?? Last time it was seen it was orbiting Earth, right? Or at least in it's solar system.

Did like the scenes with Winn and Brainy at the DEO. I knew they'd both annoy each other!

[bros402]

2 hours ago, tinnefoil said:

Lena was in this episode? I genuinely blinked and missed her. What did she do? 

She told ... uhh whatever Reign's real name is to go to a business meeting which she skipped to go to Fort Rozz

56 minutes ago, Trini said:

Ugh -- COME ON -- I figured about halfway through one of the villianesses was going to die, but I was hoping it would be Psi; because WHY would you kill off the fun one?! Just when she got a better wig, too!

If Supergirl needed female backup, she knows at least one female Martian....

So a sun that kills off males? That's... convenient? And weirdly specific? But I did like the team-up of women, though.

Um, so HOW did Fort Rozz get all the way to a completely different solar system?? Last time it was seen it was orbiting Earth, right? Or at least in it's solar system.

Did like the scenes with Winn and Brainy at the DEO. I knew they'd both annoy each other!

Supergirl threw Fort Rozz really, really hard

[ottoDbusdriver]

My big problem with the episode was that Alex babysat Ruby for a day -- yet during that 'day' both Supergirl and her crew, and Reign traveled to a star far far away, hung out on Fort Rozz for several hours and traveled back again.

Since when do solar flares cause objects to fall towards the source of the flare ?

Neither of the Voyager space probes is far enough out to be useful as a telecommunications relay -- plus they kind of glossed over the whole delay communicating with either Voyager (which would have been 36+ hours round trip), let alone the delay communicating an object orbiting ANOTHER STAR.  I know, I know, plot convenience.

Unless Supergirl threw Fort Rozz faster than the speed of light, how did it even reach another star ?  And if she did throw it that hard, everyone on board would have been crushed.

How did Reign's Betta fish spaceship get fueled up for interstellar travel ?

[BooBear]

9 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'll miss Livewire. I liked her best in season one, but I'm happy with her character development. I regret never getting a scene between her and Killer Frost. They'd have gotten along well. Glad for Psi getting her nicer room. 

I miss her but I won't miss that HORRIBLE wig. Assuming the actress has a better gig. 

Really like Brainy.. he will be a great love interest for Kara. 

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Unless Supergirl threw Fort Rozz faster than the speed of light, how did it even reach another star ?  And if she did throw it that hard, everyone on board would have been crushed.

Actually, Supergirl only had to get it away from Earth's gravity and it would keep moving at the same velocity until some outside force acted on it. In space, once something starts moving it keeps moving until it hits something or comes too close to another source of gravity. It wouldn't have to be fast, just consistent. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure a year and a half, or however long its been since the end of the first season, is not even remotely enough time for Fort Rozz to make it all the way to another star system. It wouldn't even be anywhere near Andromeda, which is our closest neighbor I believe.

It sucks that they killed Livewire. I really liked Livewire. But as others have said, of the four women she was probably the best choice insomuch as they would have the easiest time bringing her back if they wanted to. As an electrical being who was sort of explicitly linked into Fort Rozz's power system when she hit the wall, she could conceivably reconstitute somewhere along the line. And maybe be pissed she was abandoned.

Oh man, I fear the future if Ruby becomes a cast member as Alex's adopted daughter. I mean, at least they don't have this teenage looking actress acting like she's five or something anymore but I still find her kind of annoying.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Kromm said:

I can't say I quite agree. I think Imra is a fascinating character, and she's been really well handled. And the show told us straight out that it wasn't going to fall prey to the cliche of the new girlfriend being a nightmare. 

Imra/Saturn Girl isn't the new girlfriend, but Mon-El's wife.

I don't know how I feel about this. At one point, you had Winn and J'onn, I think? saying Kara's name--"Kara" while she was with Psi and Livewire, and I'm like, way to out her identity, guys! But then later, Livewire was calling her "Supergirl," so I guess she didn't hear them.

The problem I have with these shows...Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, is when they have a season long villain, that villain is always, always, ALWAYS, impervious to to weakness, or is always ALL POWERFUL. Until it's time the writers decided it's time for them to be defeated, ergo, killed. There's no balance.

So, Sara Douglas, was a one and done? Loved seeing her again, and boy was she chewing the scenery so gloriously! Will Zod Terence Stamp show up next?

I fast forwarded through all of Alex and Ruby's scenes, because I'm soooo not interested in this plot line.

[UNOSEZ]

If they keep up with this characterization I'm ok with Ruby.. Becuz as much as I loathed most of her early scenes.. She was pleasant in this epi.. Supportive mature enuff and childish enuff when she was pushing to go after another girl... Ar some point the fact that she's half kryptonian will come up.. And who is her dad again?  Was his abscence explained.. Did he die or is he a deadbeat.. Ir some secret character for later?.. 

[Racj82]

On 1/22/2018 at 10:07 PM, jmonique said:

Hey, remember in the first season, when Kara got to talk to her friends and bond with them and stuff?

You know, before Mary Sue Mon El was able to make it all about him and say all the right things?

Good times.

I do remember Alex being the one Kara has confided in the most this season as is always the case. Also, having moments with all her friends while she was working through her issues. That's what I do remember.

I don't give a damn about Mon El but I don't like stretching to make everything a character does a bad thing. He gave her a pep talk. They are friends. That's all it was.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Racj82

[kdm07]

12 hours ago, tinnefoil said:

I really, really hate that so far every time there was a girl team up, there had to be a reason. On Flash it was because it was a Bachelorette party, on Legends it was because Helen’s power affected the men and now on Supergirl it’s because of magic anti Y chromosome radiation (why do Daxamites and Martians and Coluans all have Y chromosomes btw?). I think that’s why I dug Amaya, Zari and Killer Frost teaming up for their little rescue in the crossover. Because there was no reason for why it was all women. They just had enough female cast and those just happened to be the most capable people at hand and they just happened to be all women by accident. Rather than there needing to be a reason why they team up (for the record, I’m not counting Iris and Felicity saving Kara because the reason this team up exists is because they are being victimized/because as wives/girlfriends they were left out of the normal action)

I'm going to have to jump in and defend the only CW/DC show that knows how to write for a team/cast. Legends always pairs up the team in various combinations, the Helen episode was not the only time there's been a girl team up. Her power also didn't affect Stein (wipes a tear away). 

First episode of Supergirl I've seen in awhile (trying to give it another shot) and...sigh, this show continues to be infuriating. I know showrunners hate doing this but if you have no use for regulars any more, get rid of them! I feel for Mehcad Brooks but he should've been off the show as early back as Season 2, that's how badly they've misused him. Same applies to Winn and J'onn. If you weren't sure what exactly you were going to do with Lena, why did you make her a regular? So you could add her to the rest of the cast you've sidelined?

Reign would interest me more if I didn't know that she'd be dead by the end of the season so Alex can adopt the teenager. I have no reason to invest any time over her.

Legion is...whatever. Irma and Brianiac are fine but the overall arch with them is how I feel about Reign/Sam. They're essentially plot devices unless I missed some cast news and they'll be sticking around past the season finale. If I have, feel free to correct me.

Edited January 23, 2018 by kdm07

[tinnefoil]

Isn't that more a question of contracts running longer? I just assumed that because of that is is just easier for showrunners to keep people around. 

Considering that this show was specifically supposed to be about a girl teamup and they brought back two guest stars because of it, I'm not really sure how representative it really is of a normal episode. 

I also don't see why only being around till the end of the season means you can't have a meaningful story. I really enjoyed M'gann's story and she was around for half a season. Brainy already got one excellent episode in the dream with Kara, so even if he was gone forever from then on, it still would have made his presence worth it. In the end the show is about Kara and giving her people to interact with. 

Astra was also never going to stick around permanently, but still her story was quite moving to me. I count on Reign being the same. I fully expect her to sacrifice herself by the end of the season, since this episode brought up the topic of believing in people and Livewire sacrificing herself. Sam is far from my favorite character and imo some of her introduction has been botched (for example: I don't buy the friendship between Sam and Kara whatsoever), but I could picture that end still being pretty moving. 

I watch Legends too, but are teamups of 3-4 women only really that frequent? Camelot with Stargirl and Guinevere maybe? No others really jump to mind. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by tinnefoil

[kdm07]

53 minutes ago, tinnefoil said:

Isn't that more a question of contracts running longer? I just assumed that because of that is is just easier for showrunners to keep people around. 

Considering that this show was specifically supposed to be about a girl teamup and they brought back two guest stars because of it, I'm not really sure how representative it really is of a normal episode. 

I also don't see why only being around till the end of the season means you can't have a meaningful story. I really enjoyed M'gann's story and she was around for half a season. Brainy already got one excellent episode in the dream with Kara, so even if he was gone forever from then on, it still would have made his presence worth it. In the end the show is about Kara and giving her people to interact with. 

Astra was also never going to stick around permanently, but still her story was quite moving to me. I count on Reign being the same. I fully expect her to sacrifice herself by the end of the season, since this episode brought up the topic of believing in people and Livewire sacrificing herself. Sam is far from my favorite character and imo some of her introduction has been botched (for example: I don't buy the friendship between Sam and Kara whatsoever), but I could picture that end still being pretty moving. 

I watch Legends too, but are teamups of 3-4 women only really that frequent? Camelot with Stargirl and Guinevere maybe? No others really jump to mind. 

No idea how their contracts work but it wouldn't be the first time a show has let go of a regular because it just wasn't working.

Sure, shorter character arcs can have meaningfulness but again, Reign was brought in to do two things: be the big bad (nothing wrong with that) and hand over her teenage daughter to Alex (awful, awful idea). Had she just been a big bad, I'd have some form of investment but that isn't her sole purpose and thus, I don't see the need to care about her human (?) side. We can agree to disagree here, I just find myself unable to care about a lot of the characters on this show now, new and old and that's down to uneven writing, characterisation and plotting since Season 2.

There haven't been three women on the cast up until 3x03. Before that, Sara & Kendra and Sara & Amaya paired up all the time. Veering off-show here but again, I disagree with them only pairing the female characters together for one episode because the male characters were affected in one way or the other, as it has happened before.

Edited January 23, 2018 by kdm07

[Winston Wolfe]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know how I feel about this. At one point, you had Winn and J'onn, I think? saying Kara's name--"Kara" while she was with Psi and Livewire, and I'm like, way to out her identity, guys! But then later, Livewire was calling her "Supergirl," so I guess she didn't hear them.

Kara has the worst-kept secret identity in the super-hero universe.  Literally everyone at the DEO knows she's Supergirl.  Add sloppiness like you just pointed out and Kara might as well go Fantastic Four style and drop the pretense.  Of course that would out Cousin Kal as well since it's been put out there that Kara and Clark are kin folk.  Messy, as the kids say.

I'm still "meh" on Mon-EL, but this cast is too crowded as it is, no way should the Legion hang around.  Despite popular opinion I still believe Imra bites the dust if Mon-El is in fact staying on as a regular.

[tinnefoil]

Two women pairing up is not much of a teamup. Kara has teamed up with women before. (not to mention Alex+Maggie)

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Had she just been a big bad, I'd have some form of investment but that isn't her sole purpose and thus, I don't see the need to care about her human (?) side.

To me that doesn't make much sense. She's still a pretty good big bad. Why would you care for her less just because they added stuff on top of that? Is it really that different from Damian Darkh and his daughter? Or Merelyn and his daughter? Villains having a daughter as their is weakness is hardly unusual. 

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Unable to care about a lot of the characters on this show now, new and old

Which is probably why you don't watch it ;) I don't find this structure that unusual. It's not like Joe or Iris or Caitlyn are super well used in every Flash episode. (though I do agree that this season is particularly bad in regards to characters just missing episodes without any reason for it and many storylines feeling choppy as a result (what happened to J'onn's father again? He was randomly among the people worrying about Kara in the Christmas episode and poof, he's gone again). And one can't really blame that on the Legion since he randomly disappeared between 3 and 7 without the Legion being in town. 

[kdm07]

28 minutes ago, tinnefoil said:

Two women pairing up is not much of a teamup. Kara has teamed up with women before. (not to mention Alex+Maggie)

To me that doesn't make much sense. She's still a pretty good big bad. Why would you care for her less just because they added stuff on top of that? Is it really that different from Damian Darkh and his daughter? Or Merelyn and his daughter? Villains having a daughter as their is weakness is hardly unusual. 

Which is probably why you don't watch it ;) I don't find this structure that unusual. It's not like Joe or Iris or Caitlyn are super well used in every Flash episode. (though I do agree that this season is particularly bad in regards to characters just missing episodes without any reason for it and many storylines feeling choppy as a result (what happened to J'onn's father again? He was randomly among the people worrying about Kara in the Christmas episode and poof, he's gone again). And one can't really blame that on the Legion since he randomly disappeared between 3 and 7 without the Legion being in town. 

- Again, there's only been two females in the cast before this season so unless I'm forgetting someone, any time they paired up it was a teamup based on what you originally said. Never disagreed with Supergirl not using an all-female teamup either. I disagreed with the notion that Legends ONLY did it for the Helen episode.

- Yes because Darkh's daughter hasn't been brought in for the sole purpose of eventually being adopted by Sara/Amaya/Zari (take you pick).

- I don't watch the Flash so I'll take your word for it. Unevenness can only be excused for so long before a show becomes silly. This show is close to it. I also didn't blame the Legion at all so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that?

My original point in all of this was, the cast is too big for the writers on this show who, on average, are middling at best. I don't expect high level writing on any CW show but when a cast becomes too bloated with a writing team that isn't top notch, it'll affect everything from top to bottom. How do you fix that? By eliminating the characters that the very same writing team can't be bothered to write properly for any more.

I'll go back to lurking now :)

[tinnefoil]

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. I also didn't blame the Legion at all so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that?

You didn't. It just seems like a natural development that if you start bringing on new characters, maybe there is less time for other characters. To me this problem with characters not being well used (J'onn/M'yrnn and Winn in particular) was already there in the beginning of the season. 

I think the only stories being treated with consistency this season are Alex, Kara and Sam/Reign. This doesn't necessarily mean that those stories are necessarily good, but those are the stories that progress most of the time and are featured with regularity. But to me that doesn't matter that the show would be better off if those were the only three characters. 

Supergirl is not and has never been like Legends, which has a sort of cross polleniating cast. Supergirl is more lead characters versus supporting characters. You still need supporting characters (like Ruby for Sam, J'onn for the DEO, even Mon-El I'd argue is more an object in Kara's story so far) or else the main characters don't have a ton of people to talk to. 

[Iceman91]

I see why they killed Livewire, to raise the stakes, make Reign more dangerous and have Kara doubt if she can be saved but it would probably work better if they had chosen a character regular or someone more connected to Kara. I think it's also a short-sighted decision because every show need a reserve of recurring villains or frenemies that they can bring back from time to time and Supergirl is very limited in this domain, they only have Psy left now, Flash did the same mistake when they got rid of the Rogues because of Legends.

 

Alex is preparing for her new role as Ruby's mother and it may have been the most tolerable Ruby was this season, not a bad beginning Alex. I expect Reign to die since the beginning of the season but now I'm leaning more towards a sacrifice by Sam.

 

Imra continues to do nothing for me, being nice is her only character trait, the actress promised we would see more of her in this episode instead she was the less used of the four, did nothing useful on the mission and didn't have any significant interaction with Kara. The only interesting scene with her was the one with Psy hinting at a possible secret.

 

Winn and Brainy were a good pair though it wasn't a good episode for Brainiac who was kind of an ass.

 

Nice scene with Kara and Mon-El at the end, it shows that he's changed and matured, and they can at least rebuild a friendship.

 

All in all an okay episode raised by the interactions between Kara and Livewire but it did very little to advance the story, the characters learned that there are others worldkillers which we already knew and talking about worldkillers, a new one has just very conveniently awoken by accident just at the right time.

[opus]

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Despite popular opinion I still believe Imra bites the dust if Mon-El is in fact staying on as a regular

I don't know if you meant die, but if so, since she's DC canon, I don't think so.

But leave, sure, a definite possibility.

[iMonrey]

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Supergirl, you're about to go on a mission where you won't have your powers and half your team are bad guys.  You want to wear some armor?  No?  How about bringing along a weapon?  No?  How about not wearing your regular costume since your S is a bullseye?  No? 

What was the point of even sending Supergirl if she doesn't have her powers? Because they thought she could successfully wrangle Livewire and Psi? Or they thought she could talk some sense into Rozz? That seems . . . counter-intuitive.

Bonus points for the stunt-casting of Sarah Douglas, though.

I'd really like to know the mechanics of how Samantha turns into Reign. She gets some sort of bat signal and then, what? Goes home and changes into her Reign costume, which only she knows where it's hidden? I'm assuming she's not wearing it underneath her street clothes if Samantha still isn't aware of her own alter ego.

[xander874]

Maybe the lighting was bad, but I could see Brainy's normal skin at his shirtline. I feel the makeup people would cover a little further down. 

[mrspidey]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

Um, so HOW did Fort Rozz get all the way to a completely different solar system?? Last time it was seen it was orbiting Earth, right? Or at least in it's solar system.

Apparently, Kara threw it there. Yep, she threw a space station to another star...

Which it reached in only one or two years... 

And using Voyager as relay for two-way-communication? When it only has one antenna pointed at Earth?? With 70's bandwith??? In real time????

Ugh, the pseudoscience in this episode gave me cancer. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by mrspidey

[ItCouldBeWorse]

21 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Solid episode, well-balanced and with good pacing.  Snark time: at least the writers found a fairly creative way to side-line MM this time.

So did Kara unwittingly contribute to the death of all the men aboard Fort Rozz? You'd think that would weigh on her conscious a bit.

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

"Okay, we have a deep space mission. Oh, and anybody with a Y-chromosome dies." How?!? I mean, would it be a given that all life adheres closely to what we know, even the life that is way out there? Do Martians have chromosomes and/or similar DNA to humans?

 

19 hours ago, tinnefoil said:

... and now on Supergirl it’s because of magic anti Y chromosome radiation (why do Daxamites and Martians and Coluans all have Y chromosomes btw?)

I also am not convinced that Martian "men" would necessarily have a y chromosome. We know from Ruby that Kryptonians and humans can breed, so they are from the same species as we define it/their genetics must be very similar,  but Martians needn't have the same basic genetic makeup as humans.

Edited January 23, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

18 hours ago, Stuffy said:

When I first started reading everyone’s comments I was thinking, “Who the hell is Irma?”  I worked it out though. The funny thing is during the episode I was thinking “Her name isn’t really Matilda is it?”  I guess the character isn’t clicking with me. 

She's "Imra" not "Irma."

Does Amy Jackson's British accent sound different then those customarily heard on tv to anyone else? I cant explain it, but it's unique to my experience.

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She's "Imra" not "Irma."

Does Amy Jackson's British accent sound different then those customarily heard on tv to anyone else? I cant explain it, but it's unique to my experience.

She's a Bollywood actress so it may be tinged with whatever Indian dialects she speaks with for her other parts