S02.E13: That'll Be the Day

[Wouldofshouldof]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Okay.  That does it.  For the first time in my life I'm interested in buying a crock pot.  Maybe this is going to be good for the manufacturers after all.  The only food I ever ate that had been cooked that way was a greasy serving of pork ribs, so I just thought I'll continue to make my ribs in the oven, my chili in a pan, and  my pot roast in my Dutch oven.  But there must be more.  I'm off to look up crock pot recipes and buy myself a shiny new kitchen thingy.

Here's the thing.  I love my crock pot, and I leave it on while I'm at work and have never worried about it.  BUT... if you have never tried Reynold's oven bags, run out and get some right now!  What takes 8 hours in a crock pot takes 2 in an oven bag.  I do everything in them - I do my ribs in them, and they're fantastic, and I do my Thanksgiving turkey, usually around 18 lbs, in about 3 hours.  Have not switched from crock pot to oven bag to make applesauce, though, lol.

[Katy M]

OK, here's how Jack dies:

They all get out.  Dog included.  The fire truck comes (doesn't hit anybody).  They watch for a while.  They drop Randall and Kate off at Miguel's.  Then, Jack decides now (in the middle of the night) is a perfect time to go look at the house Rebecca was talking about earlier.  He goes to do that, but first takes off his ring and notebook and puts them in a baggie to hold on to.  Because, reasons.  Anyway, Rebecca goes to their old house to cry about it.  Jack goes to look at what could potentially beome new house.  Meanwhile, Kate says she has to go find Kevin to tell him.  So, she leaves and goes to Sophie's house. Nobody is there, because Kevin and Sophie are apparently out making out somewhere in the middle of the night.  (Seriously, was this all really the same night?  It must have been late.  Why were they still out?)  So, anyway, she takes off looking for them and instead runs into a gang of drug dealers.  They kidnap her, find out her father's contact information and call him for ransom.  Well, Jack doesn't call the police.  He can handle this himself.  But, he does take the dog with him for protection.  So, he goes to the meet with the dog.  Negotiations are going smoothly when the dog (does he have a name?) runs up and attacks the head drug guy.  Jack pulls out his staple gun (the only kind he has) and shoots the durg dealer in the head, but there are too many of them and they return fire and Jack is killed.  They run off, leaving Kate unharmed, but Jack and her dog are now dead.  Kate, reasonably enough, blames the entire affair on the dog, because if it hadn't interfered, all would still be well.

[kili]

Quote

Randall means well, but him jumping from project to project is absolutely a huge pain for his family. I wonder if he was always like this, or if its been coming out more and more due to William showing up and then dying? Or he was a little like this before, and now its just gotten bigger and bigger?

Before he had his job to keep him focus. It required him to use his intellect and kept his mind from wandering.  Deja was a problem he wanted to solve, so he got focused on her (too focused such that it was overwhelming for her).  Social Services haven't given him another child yet (perhaps wanting a cooling off period given the way he behaved). Now, he has no focus, so he's jumping from challenge to challenge.

It was kind of funny how Kevin got to do a significant job for the appreciative renter, while Randall got stuck with less glamorous jobs for a series of cranky neighbours.

Quote

Gonna nitpick the crockpot. The crockpot was still on when Jack was cleaning up the kitchen and he switches it off. So, Rebecca left the crockpot of chili on that whole time? No one scooped out the chili, put it away, and washed the crockpot out? 

I've never had a Crockpot and this show isn't going to convince me to buy one, but I thought you could leave something like chili in it for the duration of a party with the heat on low? Rebecca probably made enough for the entire family (including two hungry teenagers and possibly their guests).  Perhaps she left it on low so the kids could have it when they got home? Plus, she got "distracted" and that's how everything got left out.

When Jack comes down the stairs and finds Randall, he's digging into a big bowl of something. I assumed that was the chili.

Faulty electronic items should be replaced and not left plugged in. While many older things were built to last, American cars weren't the only crappy things produced in the 70s.  My parents bought a new stove and it burst into flames within a few weeks of it arriving. My parents were planning a dinner-party that night, so we little kids (2-6) were in the kitchen eating our dinner while dinner for the party was cooking (a roast). We spotted the fire and alerted our parents, so the fire didn't spread too far. The fire report concluded it was a faulty stove.  The manufacturer gave us a new stove and repaired the house (but they didn't pay for the roast). 

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

OK, here's how Jack dies:

They all get out.  Dog included.  The fire truck comes (doesn't hit anybody).  They watch for a while.  They drop Randall and Kate off at Miguel's.  Then, Jack decides now (in the middle of the night) is a perfect time to go look at the house Rebecca was talking about earlier.  He goes to do that, but first takes off his ring and notebook and puts them in a baggie to hold on to.  Because, reasons.  Anyway, Rebecca goes to their old house to cry about it.  Jack goes to look at what could potentially beome new house.  Meanwhile, Kate says she has to go find Kevin to tell him.  So, she leaves and goes to Sophie's house. Nobody is there, because Kevin and Sophie are apparently out making out somewhere in the middle of the night.  (Seriously, was this all really the same night?  It must have been late.  Why were they still out?)  So, anyway, she takes off looking for them and instead runs into a gang of drug dealers.  They kidnap her, find out her father's contact information and call him for ransom.  Well, Jack doesn't call the police.  He can handle this himself.  But, he does take the dog with him for protection.  So, he goes to the meet with the dog.  Negotiations are going smoothly when the dog (does he have a name?) runs up and attacks the head drug guy.  Jack pulls out his staple gun (the only kind he has) and shoots the durg dealer in the head, but there are too many of them and they return fire and Jack is killed.  They run off, leaving Kate unharmed, but Jack and her dog are now dead.  Kate, reasonably enough, blames the entire affair on the dog, because if it hadn't interfered, all would still be well.

And the writers thought they were SO smart, and NO ONE would guess it.  Katy M proves them wrong!!

I'm seriously crying I'm laughing so hard.  Staple gun...

[kilda]

except the dog doesn't attack the drug dealer.  He panic pees on him.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, kilda said:

except the dog doesn't attack the drug dealer.  He panic pees on him.

I'm sticking with attacks.  No Pearson dog would do anything quite so un-brave.

1 minute ago, tinderbox said:

Remember the episode where adult Kate is sitting in her car, binge eating, and (somehow, don't remember) adult Kevin says something  like "You can sit here and stare at the house all you want but HE'S not going to come out."?  Most of us thought Kevin was referring to Jack not coming out of the house but he could have been referring to the dog.  Have we seen the dog at all after the house fire?  I just don't think Jack dies in the house.

Yes, after the house fire, Kate and Randall, and randall's girlfriend are at Miguel's, and Kate is petting the dog.  Not to mention, I love my pets.  I'm devastated when they die.  But, a few years later, I'm not still looking for them.  He was definitely talking about Jack.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Katy M

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Or the writers felt a little retcon was warranted, to help justify Randall's new career in DIY apt. remodeling. 

I did kind of balk at him plunging a toilet.  When you drive a $150,000 car, you call a plumber or handyman for some things.  At least he wasn't tenting the building for fumigation by himself, too.  

I think doing at least some of the work is part of his need. Just like Jack needed to keep himself busy to keep his demons away, so do his sons.

[drafan]

Did Randall really say building/renovation was "in his blood"?  Wouldn't that mean William was a builder?

Sometimes, I feel like there's no game plan for this show at all.....and the writers are writing the Super Bowl episode as we speak.

And because they keep telling us we will be crying...I won't be.

[momma2seven]

I think Kevin's line to Kate was "You can sit right where you were when he left, but he's not coming back"  At least the "when he left" part because I remember thinking that was interesting wording.

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, drafan said:

Did Randall really say building/renovation was "in his blood"?  Wouldn't that mean William was a builder?

No.  It's kind of like when Jan Brady said to one of her brothers that "blood is thicker than water."  It's just an expression.

[Kohola3]

I'm living on the edge.  Own a crockpot, use the crockpot, drive away leaving it on and have yet to burn my house down.  Check the statistics, folks.  These are perfectly safe appliances especially the new ones.

[laurakaye]

21 hours ago, chocolatine said:

No, I heard that too. It's just not consistent with what Beth told William in S1, and it also makes no sense that he "built" a house in an established, wealthy neighborhood, while also holding down a full-time job and being on a tight schedule with the pregnancy. In the 20s flashback, right before Tess was born, the house was completely done and decorated. I think Randall is wildly over-exaggerating. 

 

I agree, so I end up wondering why the writers had Randall say it in the first place?  I sometimes think that the writers assume we'll all be too busy crying to listen to all the words or something.  Randall could've just as easily said something like "I remodeled our house, it's the same thing."  He also mentions that building is "in his blood."  I thought he meant Jack, but we've never seen young Randall do any type of construction projects with Jack, so what did that mean?  Did he mean William the Poet was also a builder?  That doesn't make sense, either.  These "throw-away" lines only serve to confuse viewers, and I find it really frustrating.

 

17 hours ago, drafan said:

And because they keep telling us we will be crying...I won't be.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1.

Edited January 26, 2018 by laurakaye

[Reishe]

On 1/23/2018 at 10:11 PM, chocolatine said:

Do people really keep small kitchen appliances for that long? The Pearsons have had that crockpot for 17 years, and who knows how long the elderly couple has had it before them.

I kept my mom's slow cooker and stand mixer when she passed; both appliances are now over 40 years old and still going strong. However I am home when the slow cooker is in use, and I always unplug it once it's done.

[Anela]

36 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I'm living on the edge.  Own a crockpot, use the crockpot, drive away leaving it on and have yet to burn my house down.  Check the statistics, folks.  These are perfectly safe appliances especially the new ones.

I'm using mine right now, because I need to wash the IP, but I'm here to watch it. 

[Phoebe70]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:24 PM, NUguy514 said:

I'm a bit late, but who doesn't unplug a crockpot once it's done, and who leaves a damn dishtowel next to the not-unplugged crockpot???

Not to sound sexist, but that is totally something my husband would do.  It's wouldn't even occur to him to unplug it, or have a towel near it.

[Blakeston]

18 hours ago, drafan said:

Did Randall really say building/renovation was "in his blood"?  Wouldn't that mean William was a builder?

It will all make sense when they inevitably reveal that William was a master architect who built hospitals for orphans with terminal diseases.

[Reishe]

26 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

Not to sound sexist, but that is totally something my husband would do.  It's wouldn't even occur to him to unplug it, or have a towel near it.

Same here. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I agree, so I end up wondering why the writers had Randall say it in the first place?  I sometimes think that the writers assume we'll all be too busy crying to listen to all the words or something.  Randall could've just as easily said something like "I remodeled our house, it's the same thing."  He also mentions that building is "in his blood."  I thought he meant Jack, but we've never seen young Randall do any type of construction projects with Jack, so what did that mean?  Did he mean William the Poet was also a builder?  That doesn't make sense, either.  These "throw-away" lines only serve to confuse viewers, and I find it really frustrating.

I just took the "in his blood" to mean his father Jack was in the business and he grew up hearing a lot about it.  We saw him one time with Jack in his office when he was 8 or so, maybe that was a frequent happening.  Also Randall is intense and a bit manic and goes for hyperbole in his speech.

[kilda]

8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Also Randall is intense and a bit manic and goes for hyperbole in his speech.

I don't think it's what they're going for but Randall is starting to come across as a bit bipolar.  Bipolar II would fit him - periods of hypomania (mild mania) alternating with depression.

[QQQQ]

So much for my guess the cause of the fire was a backyard Juilliard, football scholarship, Howard University, recording contract, Big 3 construction loan rejection letter bonfire gone awry.

[imhooked]

I don't think the dog is the reason.  Toby said to Kate "I know you have ((an issue)-forget what word he used) about dogs"...Kate has yet to talk to Toby about her Father's life and death; so I don't think the dog had anything to do with it.  Kate has another issue with dogs; happening way after the death of Jack.  Since it has nothing to do with Jack's death, Kate was able to tell Toby.

[chocolatine]

Just now, imhooked said:

I don't think the dog is the reason.  Toby said to Kate "I know you have ((an issue)-forget what word he used) about dogs"...Kate has yet to talk to Toby about her Father's life and death; so I don't think the dog had anything to do with it. 

I think Kate has talked to Toby about Jack's death, we just weren't shown. Wasn't there a scene last season where Toby said he couldn't marry her unless he knew about the major events of her life? IIRC, she agreed, we just didn't see her telling him.

[imhooked]

Just now, chocolatine said:

4 minutes ago, imhooked said:

I don't think the dog is the reason.  Toby said to Kate "I know you have ((an issue)-forget what word he used) about dogs"...Kate has yet to talk to Toby about her Father's life and death; so I don't think the dog had anything to do with it. 

I think Kate has talked to Toby about Jack's death, we just weren't shown. Wasn't there a scene last season where Toby said he couldn't marry her unless he knew about the major events of her life? IIRC, she agreed, we just didn't see her telling him.

I would think and hope that the writers would make that conversation shown...

[chocolatine]

Just now, imhooked said:

I would think and hope that the writers would make that conversation shown...

They didn't show it when it happened because they wanted to drag out the details of Jack's death for the viewers as long as possible. They may show it later in a flashback, or have Toby refer to it in the present day. I'm sure it wasn't a "one and done" kind of conversation; it will come up again and again.

[luna1122]

I think that EVERYTHING that anyone on this show does or feels is all about Jack, so I feel pretty certain Kate's dog issues are about him. I also do imagine she's told Toby, but they haven't let us see it, cuz, you know, they're making this very longest death in television history.

[Anela]

56 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

They didn't show it when it happened because they wanted to drag out the details of Jack's death for the viewers as long as possible. They may show it later in a flashback, or have Toby refer to it in the present day. I'm sure it wasn't a "one and done" kind of conversation; it will come up again and again.

That's what I think, too. Another flashback waiting to happen. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, imhooked said:

I would think and hope that the writers would make that conversation shown...

They showed a scene when they first got back to LA and she said something about being ready to tell him what happened.

[GSMHvisitor]

So was teen Kevin basically belittling Jack and Reebecca's ordinary life when he said "You don't get it, I was supposed to be in the Super Bowl, not watch it like you two."? Did I read that right or did he mean something else?

Because it wasn't a big fight, but this a pretty hurtful thing to say and coupled with the way he gave Jack such a hard time about being an alcoholic, I could totally see adult Kevin being distraught about his teenage behaviour, especially since this is the last thing he ever said to his father.

[Guest]

I think Kate's issues with dogs are about the fire and death, or it wouldn't have fit in this episode.  But Toby said Jack was a 'no fly zone' so I could see Kate just having told him, "No dogs, I have bad memories associated with a childhood tragedy" or even told him it was associated with her dad's death.  

Kate didn't lose that dog in the fire so she should've had plenty of good dog memories to supplant the one bad, so I think she'd have gotten past the link between the dog and the death.  Well, in the real world where life still happens after tragic events and unique Thanksgivings from our childhood.  

[laurakaye]

52 minutes ago, Katy M said:

They showed a scene when they first got back to LA and she said something about being ready to tell him what happened.

I believe you, but are we supposed to remember all of these interrupted conversations and bits of flashback/flashforward?  I can't tell if I'm not paying close enough attention or if minor dialogue exchanges are all supposed to be full of meaning and foreshadowing.

[ShadowFacts]

19 minutes ago, GSMHvisitor said:

So was teen Kevin basically belittling Jack and Reebecca's ordinary life when he said "You don't get it, I was supposed to be in the Super Bowl, not watch it like you two."? Did I read that right or did he mean something else?

Because it wasn't a big fight, but this a pretty hurtful thing to say and coupled with the way he gave Jack such a hard time about being an alcoholic, I could totally see adult Kevin being distraught about his teenage behaviour, especially since this is the last thing he ever said to his father.

I didn't even hear that "like you two", I missed it.  I just thought he was reflecting his raw bitterness about his injury, which was still pretty new.  Maybe mixed in with a little "I should have been the star of this family."  But in general teen Kevin is quite mouthy and rude to everyone but Kate, and Kate is really lippy to Rebecca.  I think there's plenty for both Kate and Kevin to regret about their teen behavior.  They're old enough to know now that you can't un-ring a bell and I would think it would bother them.  Kate persists with the zingers to her mother, though they came to some sort of truce after the miscarriage.  We can definitely see Kevin recognizing his need for reparations to his dad that aren't possible anymore.  This episode made me really feel for him about that.

[tinderbox]

3 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

Not to sound sexist, but that is totally something my husband would do.  It's wouldn't even occur to him to unplug it, or have a towel near it.

I've got to say, my husband would unplug it....and he's not at all a kitchen friendly kind of guy....because he'd know it has to be put away.  I mean, who (man or woman) wouldn't unplug a crock pot before removing the leftovers, if any, and washing it out?  Also, do people really use crock pots often enough to warrant keeping it out on their counter tops all the time ? 

 

I realize I'm beating a dead horse so I'll let it go.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tinderbox

[chocolatine]

41 minutes ago, GSMHvisitor said:

So was teen Kevin basically belittling Jack and Reebecca's ordinary life when he said "You don't get it, I was supposed to be in the Super Bowl, not watch it like you two."? Did I read that right or did he mean something else?

Because it wasn't a big fight, but this a pretty hurtful thing to say and coupled with the way he gave Jack such a hard time about being an alcoholic, I could totally see adult Kevin being distraught about his teenage behaviour, especially since this is the last thing he ever said to his father.

That's exactly how I interpreted it as well, and I think that's also why Jack wrote in his note that Kevin owes them an apology. I can see that comment as being especially hurtful to Jack, to whom a happy family life is the be all end all, to see Kevin be so dismissive of everything Jack holds dear.

42 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But Toby said Jack was a 'no fly zone' so I could see Kate just having told him, "No dogs, I have bad memories associated with a childhood tragedy" or even told him it was associated with her dad's death.

I think by "no fly zone" Toby meant he couldn't say anything critical about Jack, not that he couldn't ask questions about him.

[Miasmomma]

On 1/24/2018 at 1:30 AM, Snapdragon said:

And while I'm glad that Kevin got his necklace back, my stomach is turning over the fact that he had to write an apology letter to rapey Charlotte to do it.  I mean, what did the letter say, "Sorry I ran out on you after you used me (while I was obviously drunk and emotionally unstable) to fulfill your pathetic high school fantasies?"  Ugh!

Is this really how you saw that play out?  What I watched was an addict take advantage of an insecure woman ( who admitted to having a high school crush) because she was a doctor and would likely be a source for drugs.  Which seemed to me to be the reason that he ran out after stealing from her prescription pad. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, GSMHvisitor said:

So was teen Kevin basically belittling Jack and Reebecca's ordinary life when he said "You don't get it, I was supposed to be in the Super Bowl, not watch it like you two."? Did I read that right or did he mean something else?

Because it wasn't a big fight, but this a pretty hurtful thing to say and coupled with the way he gave Jack such a hard time about being an alcoholic, I could totally see adult Kevin being distraught about his teenage behaviour, especially since this is the last thing he ever said to his father.

It's slightly OT, but have you heard Billy Crystal's one man show where he talks about the night his father died? It was very similar, he was being a rude, bratty teenager when his mom and dad left for an evening out - his Dad died while they were out. Horrible weight to bear for anyone. Even someone as self involved as Kevin.

[luna1122]

Am I the only one who used to (before I had a slow cooker with an insert) just put the whole thing in the fridge, if there were leftovers? probably. And I have most definitely now put the insert with leftovers in the fridge, and left the turn-off crockpot plugged in on the counter. And I wouldn't even notice if there was a dish towel near it. I'm a mess, I guess.

I think Kevin and Charlotte both took advantage of one another, both with creepy results.

Edited January 26, 2018 by luna1122

[Ohiopirate02]

28 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That's exactly how I interpreted it as well, and I think that's also why Jack wrote in his note that Kevin owes them an apology. I can see that comment as being especially hurtful to Jack, to whom a happy family life is the be all end all, to see Kevin be so dismissive of everything Jack holds dear.

I think by "no fly zone" Toby meant he couldn't say anything critical about Jack, not that he couldn't ask questions about him.

Also, Jack is someone who always looks to the bright side of things and that rubbed off on Rebecca as well.  Last episode Jack could not sit back and let Kevin and Miguel wallow in their sadness for an extended  period of time.  I can see that to Jack a person chooses to be happy or unhappy. I can also see Jack's alcoholism stemming from his unwillingness to examine his past traumas.   Jack is always looking to the future and Kevin is stuck in his (albeit recent) past.   

[Brookside]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

I'm using mine right now, because I need to wash the IP, but I'm here to watch it. 

What's an IP? Impossible Parent?  Incredible Panda?   Irritating Pet Peeve?

(Being silly here, but I am curious.)

Edited January 26, 2018 by Brookside

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Brookside said:

What's an IP? Impossible Parent?  Incredible Panda?   Irritating Pet peeve?

Intellectual Property?  Internet Protocol?

I'm guessing Instant Pot, based on the context.  

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Intellectual Property?  Internet Protocol?

I'm guessing Instant Pot, based on the context.  

And in the surrogacy and adoption worlds, IP means Intended Parent(s).  

[debraran]

7 hours ago, imhooked said:

I would think and hope that the writers would make that conversation shown...

Toby did say in in one show, I know how he died, but you never told me everything. Kate said she would but the writers couldn't show it. They even cut many minutes from her therapy session at the camp because of that. They leave huge gaps in many conversations because of revealing too much. I really am looking forward to at least having that come to an end. So much is missing, a decade or more. Why his death became a mystery, I'm not sure, but as much as I hate to see it, he was dead from the beginning and now we can learn more.

Randall mentioned Jack making peace with them all, if that was earlier than his death, during AA, maybe that will be a nice flashback after the shock ends of his dying.

Edited January 26, 2018 by debraran

[wallofsound]

5 hours ago, tinderbox said:

9 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

Not to sound sexist, but that is totally something my husband would do.  It's wouldn't even occur to him to unplug it, or have a towel near it.

I've got to say, my husband would unplug it....and he's not at all a kitchen friendly kind of guy....because he'd know it has to be put away.  I mean, who (man or woman) wouldn't unplug a crock pot before removing the leftovers, if any, and washing it out?  Also, do people really use crock pots often enough to warrant keeping it out on their counter tops all the time ? 

I can’t even conceive of leaving that thing plugged in all night.   The coffee pot, yes.   The toaster, also probably yes.   But some appliance you drag out once in a while seems like it would automatically get unplugged.   It seems out of character for jack to leave it plugged in and throw a rag at it while still warm.   He’s in construction - I would assume he’s aware of all kinds of safety things and electrical issues.     

[Anela]

7 hours ago, Brookside said:

What's an IP? Impossible Parent?  Incredible Panda?   Irritating Pet Peeve?

(Being silly here, but I am curious.)

Oh, sorry. Instant Pot. :) I mentioned it the other night, but there are a lot of posts here. 

[Driad]

Before watching TIU, I watched NCIS, which often begins with never-before-seen people finding a body.  When TIU began with the older couple in their garage, I wondered for a moment if there was a dead petty officer in one of the cartons.  

[Eliot]

On 1/24/2018 at 8:56 AM, deaja said:

And, as further proof the internet has everything, George's Crockpot now has a twitter account.

https://twitter.com/georgescrockpot

That is awesome. I had to follow.

[NYCFree]

I use my slow cooker a couple of times a week. It is a Cuisinart brand with a removable insert, and can brown/sauté as well as slow cook. It stays on my kitchen island, plugged in, while not in use. I also definitely use it while not at home. I also leave my electric kettle, coffee pot and toasted plugged in, I have never heard of people unplugging appliances on a daily basis.

In the past four years my family has bought and sold five properties. Even with an all cash purchase, I can't imagine a one week closing.

I watch this show with my 15 year old son. He thinks Randall is awesome and Beth is bitchy. He doesn't see the effect of Randall's unbounded enthusiasm, he just sees a positive person, while Beth is the no fun downer.

[Pallas]

16 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

I watch this show with my 15 year old son. He thinks Randall is awesome and Beth is bitchy. He doesn't see the effect of Randall's unbounded enthusiasm, he just sees a positive person, while Beth is the no fun downer.

This made me laugh. Spoken like a true 15-year-old, about a 37-year-old-sometimes-budding-17-year-old, and his designated adult. 

I love Beth and Randall individually and together. Yes, Beth says no. Or sometimes says, "Well then, you know where to find me." (And he does know where to find her, and she takes the call: no making him leave a humble voicemail, first.) Or offers variations and alternatives. Or prepares her whiteboard and brings it to the meeting along with bagels, lox and schmears, only to see Randall throw away the playbook, and start calling his own number.

No, Beth to Randall is not Jack to Kate, praise be. Because while that may be a role for a parent, it is not the role for a life's partner -- especially for one parent to another. Remember last year, when at his office Christmas party, Randall decided he should buy a suicidal colleague's boat? And Beth said no? Some of us criticized her for not letting Randall have fun with his money, and some of us wondered if Beth had seen this play before. Knowing Randall better now, and how he (man)handles anxiety, do we think Beth made the right call?

Jack's way of dealing with his wife's anxiety was to reassure her that of course everything would work out, and, to go big:  a big gesture, a big idea, even a big risk. It seems to have helped Rebecca get through some moments and at least made her feel seen, made her feel her anxiety could be acknowledged and tolerated. No small thing. Beth seems to have developed lots of different ways to address Randall's anxiety, depending on the stakes and the timing. Her choice when it came to the boat was to put her foot down before cocktail napkins got signed, drunken handshakes exchanged and new names discussed. Her choice when she got run over while presenting at the tenants' meeting was to disengage and allow life to happen. But she has his back, as truly or more than any Pearson has another Pearson's back -- just as Kevin saw, with clarity. 

Bitchy folk don't have your back. Beth does.

[PRgal]

On 1/25/2018 at 10:37 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

None of the Big Three or Rebecca, for that matter, seem to have any money problems. For Kevin and Randall, it could be explained that they were high powered moneymakers, but not so with Kate and Rebecca. I'm wondering if Jack actually dies from some kind of doctor error after the fire. This then resulted in a structured settlement that allowed Rebecca and the children to have a steady income for the rest of their lives. ( I know we had a scene with Kate working as a waitress while going to community college, but often the children don't get access to money until a certain age like 21 or 25.) Just a thought.

But Kate was well over 25 on the twenties flashback episode.  It took place in 2008, so she was 28 years old.  

[qtpye]

On 1/25/2018 at 10:19 AM, cardigirl said:

Watching Jack clean the kitchen and leave the note for Kevin before the fire broke out, reminded me of a scene from a novel, A Death in the Family by James Agee.  In that scene, a young husband, and father, is leaving for work early, but as he leaves, he pulls the sheets and covers back up, thinking to preserve what heat he can in the bed for his wife, who is checking on their child.  When she comes back, she sighs, because she thinks he was trying to make the bed and failed.  He dies on his way to work and she never knows what his true, tender intentions were. 

The note that burns, if Jack does not survive the fire, is one of Jack's intentions that will not be known.

I liked how the writers of this show are highlighting the little, tiny steps that lead to big events. The neighbor giving a faulty crockpot that was okay for 17 years. The forgotten batteries for the smoke detector. Kevin leaving on bad terms, and not coming home. The multiple little things/decisions we make every day that affect our lives in unforeseen ways. It's scary and sad to contemplate. 

I'm beginning to think that Jack doesn't die in the fire, given that the writers often misdirect us. However he dies though, I'm sure it will be a heartbreaking thing to watch.  I may have to do it with a strong drink in my hand.  (Whiskey!)

 

On 1/25/2018 at 10:44 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Since we don't know exactly how he dies yet, it could be that he had one or more substantial life insurance policies, and they often pay double for accidental death.  The family may not have been set for life, but they would not have been impoverished.  Rebecca eventually marries Miguel, so it's really only Kate that I wonder about.  She currently does infrequent singing gigs.  Good thing she is with Toby, because I don't think those jobs alone would be enough to be much of a living wage. 

 

On 1/25/2018 at 11:59 AM, Jillybean said:

My husband is a Steelers fan and I'm a Redskins fan. We agree that there is no one to root for in this Super Bowl.

 

On 1/25/2018 at 1:24 PM, TwoGrayTabbies said:

TIU often seems to me an updated version of the sentimental family dramas from the 70s.  So perhaps Randall was channeling Pa Ingalls when he erroneously remembered building his house.

 

On 1/25/2018 at 1:37 PM, Katy M said:

OK, here's how Jack dies:

They all get out.  Dog included.  The fire truck comes (doesn't hit anybody).  They watch for a while.  They drop Randall and Kate off at Miguel's.  Then, Jack decides now (in the middle of the night) is a perfect time to go look at the house Rebecca was talking about earlier.  He goes to do that, but first takes off his ring and notebook and puts them in a baggie to hold on to.  Because, reasons.  Anyway, Rebecca goes to their old house to cry about it.  Jack goes to look at what could potentially beome new house.  Meanwhile, Kate says she has to go find Kevin to tell him.  So, she leaves and goes to Sophie's house. Nobody is there, because Kevin and Sophie are apparently out making out somewhere in the middle of the night.  (Seriously, was this all really the same night?  It must have been late.  Why were they still out?)  So, anyway, she takes off looking for them and instead runs into a gang of drug dealers.  They kidnap her, find out her father's contact information and call him for ransom.  Well, Jack doesn't call the police.  He can handle this himself.  But, he does take the dog with him for protection.  So, he goes to the meet with the dog.  Negotiations are going smoothly when the dog (does he have a name?) runs up and attacks the head drug guy.  Jack pulls out his staple gun (the only kind he has) and shoots the durg dealer in the head, but there are too many of them and they return fire and Jack is killed.  They run off, leaving Kate unharmed, but Jack and her dog are now dead.  Kate, reasonably enough, blames the entire affair on the dog, because if it hadn't interfered, all would still be well.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 10:45 AM, Blakeston said:

It will all make sense when they inevitably reveal that William was a master architect who built hospitals for orphans with terminal diseases.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 11:21 AM, QQQQ said:

So much for my guess the cause of the fire was a backyard Juilliard, football scholarship, Howard University, recording contract, Big 3 construction loan rejection letter bonfire gone awry.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 11:29 AM, chocolatine said:

I think Kate has talked to Toby about Jack's death, we just weren't shown. Wasn't there a scene last season where Toby said he couldn't marry her unless he knew about the major events of her life? IIRC, she agreed, we just didn't see her telling him.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 11:34 AM, chocolatine said:

They didn't show it when it happened because they wanted to drag out the details of Jack's death for the viewers as long as possible. They may show it later in a flashback, or have Toby refer to it in the present day. I'm sure it wasn't a "one and done" kind of conversation; it will come up again and again.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 1:26 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think Kate's issues with dogs are about the fire and death, or it wouldn't have fit in this episode.  But Toby said Jack was a 'no fly zone' so I could see Kate just having told him, "No dogs, I have bad memories associated with a childhood tragedy" or even told him it was associated with her dad's death.  

Kate didn't lose that dog in the fire so she should've had plenty of good dog memories to supplant the one bad, so I think she'd have gotten past the link between the dog and the death.  Well, in the real world where life still happens after tragic events and unique Thanksgivings from our childhood.  

 

On 1/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Also, Jack is someone who always looks to the bright side of things and that rubbed off on Rebecca as well.  Last episode Jack could not sit back and let Kevin and Miguel wallow in their sadness for an extended  period of time.  I can see that to Jack a person chooses to be happy or unhappy. I can also see Jack's alcoholism stemming from his unwillingness to examine his past traumas.   Jack is always looking to the future and Kevin is stuck in his (albeit recent) past.   

I am a fan of this show, but my husband does not enjoy it, even though it's base around one of his favorite cities (Pittsburgh) and where he grew up (New Jersey).  So, I was telling him that I was going to have to stay up past the Super Bowl to find out how Jack dies.  He asked how it was going to happen and mentioned perhaps Jack getting into a crash after driving around drunk.  I then told him that at this point it seems likely that Jack might die trying to save a puppy from a burning building.  My husband literally threw his hands into the air and ran out of the room muttering "That show...".

[Pallas]

40 minutes ago, qtpye said:

So, I was telling him that I was going to have to stay up past the Super Bowl to find out how Jack dies.  He asked how it was going to happen and mentioned perhaps Jack getting into a crash after driving around drunk.  I then told him that at this point it seems likely that Jack might die trying to save a puppy from a burning building.  My husband literally threw his hands into the air and ran out of the room muttering "That show...".

Your husband is Beth to your Randall. In this wonderful story, anyway!