S35.E16: Reunion Special

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Didn't Probst say at the reunion for season 34 that in case of a tie at FTC the person in the F3 that was not part of the tie would place the deciding vote? I thought he talked about it at last season's reunion and that's why the internet was convinced there'd be a tie this season. 

I've decided that I'm not that mad about Ben winning anymore. I mean I still think Chrissy played the better game, but she sucked too so whatever. But I feel like Ben's win legitimizes 'finding HIIs' as a strategy and I really hate that. I also still hate the twist of the F3 being determined by a fire-making challenge simply because challenge ability and being able to make a fire aren't important to me in a Survivor player.

But I have to just accept it or stop watching, which I won't do lol. I'll just keep watching and complaining!

LOL i know. i'm in until the bitter end. 
but i truly do miss what made this show amazing. to be hnest. 

[Haleth]

I'm glad Chrissy didn't get to drag 2 goats to the finale and cruise to a win. She had to work to justify why she deserved the jury's votes. Like I said in the episode thread, too often the dominant alliance gets lazy. This is also true for dominant players. She knew she would beat both Ryan and Devon. It was much more interesting to see how she would do against Ben. Until the votes were read I thought it could go either way.  And THAT is entertaining.  Had she won I would have been fine with it even though I was rooting for Ben. No one got screwed, Survivor juries are notoriously fickle. It's just the way things turn out. 

[piequinn35]

I was kinda upset in that effing reunion, 12mins ads, 5mins Ben&friends, 8mins ghost island, what?! 5mins talking to Ben, Ryan, Chrissy, 30 secs talk to Lauren, it was just upsetting

I don't care about that stupid ghost island a.k.a. exile island 2.0. Grrr

[MissEwa]

4 minutes ago, Daisy said:

LOL i know. i'm in until the bitter end. 
but i truly do miss what made this show amazing. to be hnest. 

Me too. I don't think I'll stop watching but I'm definitely less enthusiastic than I used to be (and less bothered if I miss an episode) and this twist has just compounded that. 

I just have to hope that in four seasons when everyone arrives on the island with plenty of fire-making practice and people start stealing the flint so nobody can hone their skills in the lead-up to F4, while all the big threats get booted earlier and earlier, that they drop this stupid idea. 

1 minute ago, Haleth said:

I'm glad Chrissy didn't get to drag 2 goats to the finale and cruise to a win. She had to work to justify why she deserved the jury's votes. Like I said in the episode thread, too often the dominant alliance gets lazy. This is also true for dominant players. She knew she would beat both Ryan and Devon. It was much more interesting to see how she would do against Ben. Until the votes were read I thought it could go either way.  And THAT is entertaining.  Had she won I would have been fine with it even though I was rooting for Ben. No one got screwed, Survivor juries are notoriously fickle. It's just the way things turn out. 

I don't know that it would have been as much of a walk as you might assume. Devon had a pretty good resume and was liked by a lot of the jury. His edit was pretty low-key but I don't think that would have been the case if he'd made F3 and/or won. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The advantage, as it said in the clue, was information.

Not only is that circular logic, it's gross rationalization. "Here's an advantage: we're telling you in advance that we're screwing you over. You won't get to vote out the person you want to vote out. But, we're telling you in advance. Lucky You!"

How, really, was it to Chrissy's "advantage" to know in advance? If she'd been surprised on the spot at tribal council she would have made the same choice. The fact that she was able to tip off Devon so he could practice isn't so much an advantage,  but rather a concession, since she was being screwed out of her chance to vote off the person she wanted to vote off.

Edited December 21, 2017 by iMonrey

[Lukeysboat]

Terrible reunion show. Will JP ever stop talking to audience members? What was with the recap of Ben’s game? Waste of time. 

I have mixed feelings about the twist. 

Chrissy was grasping at straws with the “mom card” representing everyone. 

I think Devon had a good chance at winning if he’d made the final TC and could do a convincing job stating his case. 

Lastly, Cole has an unusual nose. 

[hyukx3]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Didn't Probst say at the reunion for season 34 that in case of a tie at FTC the person in the F3 that was not part of the tie would place the deciding vote? I thought he talked about it at last season's reunion and that's why the internet was convinced there'd be a tie this season. 

I've decided that I'm not that mad about Ben winning anymore. I mean I still think Chrissy played the better game, but she sucked too so whatever. But I feel like Ben's win legitimizes 'finding HIIs' as a strategy and I really hate that. I also still hate the twist of the F3 being determined by a fire-making challenge simply because challenge ability and being able to make a fire aren't important to me in a Survivor player.

But I have to just accept it or stop watching, which I won't do lol. I'll just keep watching and complaining!

He doesn't have a choice but to find hidden immunity idols or win the individual immunity. Because the strategy for everybody else is to vote him out.

[Daisy]

41 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I'm glad Chrissy didn't get to drag 2 goats to the finale and cruise to a win. She had to work to justify why she deserved the jury's votes. Like I said in the episode thread, too often the dominant alliance gets lazy. This is also true for dominant players. She knew she would beat both Ryan and Devon. It was much more interesting to see how she would do against Ben. Until the votes were read I thought it could go either way.  And THAT is entertaining.  Had she won I would have been fine with it even though I was rooting for Ben. No one got screwed, Survivor juries are notoriously fickle. It's just the way things turn out. 

 

This bothers me. 
1: regardless if it was Devon or Ben  she would have had to justify her jury position anyway
2:why would Devon be a goat? We don't know how the jury would have perceive him, nor do we know how he would have done vs. the Jury re: speeches

I don't think people have a issue that Ben won. (I honestly don't). 
I hate the twist put him there. 
The right to choose whom you want comes with winning final immunity. which goes back to the point why the final 3 is stupid. it's supposed to be your last test, did you bring the right person (to beat) and even if you did (fundamentally) - you DON'T know how the jury will act, nor do you know as some seasons proved how being exhausted or stressed or pissed can impact your jury speech. 
 

honestly (because i barely remember a lick about this season, there goes my Suvivor-pedia status) I dont remember why exactly the Ben/Chrissy thing fell apart. I think they were both jerks to each other at equal points in the game, and both lorded over each other when they were above. Chrissy won the last challenge, and earned the right to eliminate her biggest competition. that's the point of the game. To get rid of the fodder. that's why the laments about pagonging, or goat dragging etc. doesn't bug me, because in my opinion (and i think this would have evolved without IdolGoRound) - people would have realised there's no real benefit to even being in an alliance for longer than a few days. we already got to the few weeks part. it's gone from. "NO WE DON'T SPLIT TRIBAL VOTES." to. "yah you know i don't like them." to. "well screw them, I'm going to be the bottom of somewhere else." to "live tribal council votes." [which i don't buy anything is decided. but i think it just makes people wary]

There is always going to be someone (even if they aren't a goat) that I would be able to beat vs someone else. it should be up to the other people to eliminate that "goaty" person. (Cirie did it. there are other examples obvs. but she was the first). and on top of all of that, - again you need to be able to articulate WHY you are good. Courtney was seen as the goat. Amanda was seen as someone who should have won. Courtney got more votes than Amanda. 

For Jeff to say "the vote shouldn't matter anymore because it sucks at final four if you played a good game." then what does it mean when you vote off someone first because they could have played a great game.. and that's the issue when you start throwing out the word "deserve" or "justify" [collective you, not you, you].it is a game. a very ruthless game that you can choose your own adventure as long as you are able to justify. HOW you got there. 

if you want to be the biggest smuggest cow-face on the planet - but you own it. fine. show how you played the game. 
If you want to fly under the lowest radar gun   fine. - but it makes your job harder because you need to really hope people see the mental game. 
if you want to be the biggest socialbutterfly - fine.  (etc etc etc)

so basically, why not have a fire-off at every tribal? whomever wins immunity chooses one person safe, and last person to set a the fire goes home. that's the fairest way. but then that's not the premise of what survivor is, and should be.

[cooksdelight]

I don’t know why, but I was waiting for Chrissy to open her mouth and stick out her tongue.... like the lady did a few seasons ago who had a partial or dentures or something. When she was making me get stabby with all of her “whys” for voting for her, that face popped into my screen.

[needschocolate]

I am always amazed at the ones, and there are ones every season, who have no chance of winning but think that they do.  Ryan calls himself a superfan and actually thought he had a chance of winning? 

And Mike thought he could win if he had only made it to the end? Yeah, sure, keep telling yourself that, because there are just so many examples of people winning because they never knew what was going on and were dragged to the end by the players who did.  

 

21 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

That was just a terrible season.  Bottom 5 easily, IMO.  Too many idols & that final "twist" basically nullifies the spirit of the game.  Winning final immunity should be a huge advantage.  In this case, it basically screwed Chrissy out of even having a chance to win.

So true.  However, technically, her advantage wasn't getting to pick someone to sit by her at the final - Her advantage was getting to know what the twist would be before the Final Tribal. Basically, "now that you won, we are letting you know that you will get to pick someone and the other will make fire so you can think about it ahead of time and/or tell whomever makes fire to practice, practice, practice."

If her advantage would have been - "You get to pick someone to sit next to you and have the others make fire for the 3rd spot, she would have said "hmm, I don't think I will use this advantage."  I think they threw in this twist because the wanted the finale to not be a blowout.  Normally, you get down to the final four and there are 2 who who don't have a good chance of winning (aka 2 losers), and two who would win if they sat with the two losers but might not win if they sat with each other.  Then one of the two possible winners is sent to the jury and the other one gets most of the votes.  

Still, Chrissy got screwed.

 

21 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

Worst reunion show ever.

This cannot be said often enough.  There have been a lot of terrible reunion shows.  Yet, this one was far worse than any prior one.  

It was basically - Ben wins.  Ryan is skinny.  Ben has military friends.  Lauren regrets giving away the shell.  Survivor is awesome because they have helped everyone with PTSD.  

[ProfCrash]

5 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

Chrissy didn't have to use that advantage Ryan gave her and she didn't.

 

It was quite circular that Ryan gave her that advantage and she gave him the pass to the final at the end.

Ryan was required to pass the idol on if he did not go the tribal. Chrissy didn't have to use it but Ryan had to pass it on. Just like Jessica had to play her advantage. They should have the choice to use it, pass it on, or not play it.

[seltzer3]

The reunion is so self indulgent.  Its all about Probst (Me! Me! Me!) and how great he is and the show.  I felt like the reunion and this finale (with all the twists) is a complete parody. 

I thought Caramoan had a bad reunion.  This one takes the cake.  

I understand why Chrissy lost, and I don't bash whoever wins, because at the end of the day they won.  However, I really don't care for the nth iteration of the mom/middle age woman getting crushed in the FTC (Monica, Lisa, Dawn, Sherrie, Missy, Carolyn etc.).  At least the jury seemed to give her some respect.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by seltzer3

[Tammee]

14 hours ago, blackwing said:

So awful.  Has there ever been at idol before at final five?  I know the show will say it was a "new twist".  And the fire making "new twist" which allowed someone on the bottom to get into final three. 

I was fast forwarding a bit, did we even see Ben finding his last idol?   If not, that's two idols in a row where we never actually saw him finding it. Has that ever happened before?   Usually when we see someone looking for an idol, they almost always find one.  And I can't remember the audience at home being surprised by the fact that someone had an idol, because I thought they always showed the finding.

I always believe that production handed this game to Ben.   Yeah, I know, someone here is going to come around and talk about FCC and Quiz Show and all, but technically the show could just claim that everyone had a chance to find that last idol and that everyone had a chance to build fire.  So sick of the idols.  I thought Chrissy's plan to use the dead super immunity idol to make Ben think she found it at reward was brilliant.

I also hate that Ben used his sob story to win.  "Waaaahhhh I used to not even be able to talk to anyone and now here I am with the privilege to play with all of you."   Lauren was clearly moved by it and voted for him.  Hated it.  Ben exploited his status as a marine to win.  Just like Jeremy exploiting his pregnant wife and Adam exploiting his dying/dead mother.

I didn't like Chrissy much as a person but she played a great game and I am disappointed she didn't get rewarded by the jury for her immunity wins.   Instead, production planted so many idols in so many obvious places.   Pfffffttttt.

Im remembering in the past few seasons, as well as the million weren't they giving a kind of favorite player thing like$50k, or am I thinking of Big Brother?  I could swear though that there was. I'm thinking of the surfer dude in the GI preview.  His sin was giving away his idol and getting promptly voted out lol.  But him, didn't he get something extra?  Or I'm losing it, which is certainly plausible lol

[Never Again]

10 hours ago, Daisy said:

10 hours ago, Special K said:

Haha, being offended and not liking something are definitely NOT the same thing.  I don't like eggplant, but I'm not offended by it.  :)

lolol I was going to use chocolate ice cream as an example :D 

 

Daisy. Are you saying that you don't like chocolate ice cream?  I'm calling the police

[Kerri Okie]

11 minutes ago, Tammee said:

Im remembering in the past few seasons, as well as the million weren't they giving a kind of favorite player thing like$50k, or am I thinking of Big Brother?  I could swear though that there was. I'm thinking of the surfer dude in the GI preview.  His sin was giving away his idol and getting promptly voted out lol.  But him, didn't he get something extra?  Or I'm losing it, which is certainly plausible lol

They used to do a fan favorite cash prize, yes.  Probst's self-promotion aside, sponsorship sure isn't what it used to be.  Remember when they used to give away cars in reward challenges?  Now (if they're lucky) they get dinner from Outback.   Heck, they don't even present the winner with a giant check on the CBS morning show; they just hand over an envelope before the commercial break and say, "Here's your million. Don't lose it."

[candall]

14 hours ago, Nashville said:

... And to be perfectly honest, I expected Devon to win the firemaking challenge.  :)

Same here.  He seemed to have plenty of time to polish his skills, which would definitely give him a head start over a competitor who was unaware.  I thought taking the time to shave off a little pile of magnesium would be a successful strategy--spark, poof, fire!

I didn't mind the "Final Secret Advantage."  Instead of three players voting off a fourth player because they're afraid he might beat them all at FTC, a strong player has a fighting chance to keep himself in the game.  One problem though, is that the weakest player is unlikely to wind up in the firebuilding challenge and ideally, I'd like to see the strongest three out of four presented to the jury.  (I understand why they do it, but I dislike the whole idea of dragging a "goat" along.)

**********************************

I always seem to be at odds with other posters here.  I was Chrissy-supportive all season, but her "Mom" theme tonight gave me a migraine.  And hey, here's a fun fact--did you know Chrissy tied for most immunity challenges, for women, when she won four??  Thought so.

On the other hand, I never cared much about Ben, one way or another, although his #Benbombs made for very fun TCs.  But that upside-down "U" was a heartbreaker, and you have to give the guy props for hustle on the HIIs.  I don't know why everyone's complaining about it being rigged in favor of Ben--the only guy who found idols was the only guy looking for idols.  Never mind "Why didn't they keep an eye on him?"--why didn't they hunt for the damn idols themselves?

************************************

Lauren was my favorite and I'm sure she's mortified that her one stupid error in judgment is going to be memorialized in next season's theme.  How embarrassing for Lauren, Erik, and all the others in the Pantheon of Poor Choices.  It sounds intriguing, though, for the rest of us.  Heh. 

*************************************

Oops, one more thought: 

I agree the reunion was way too Ben-heavy and I don't think Survivor needs a Lifetime movie social issue every season, but I have to say I got a little choked up when Ben's Marine buddies came out and one of them said the last time they'd seen him, he'd been in a very bad place.  That was more poignant, to me, than it would have been hearing Chrissy's kids tell us what a terrific mom she is.

[North of Eden]

Throwing on a tin foil hat here...no proof but a gut feeling that this game is approaching BIG BROTHER levels of manipulation to steer the desired winner to the end. So after a whole night of seaching an endless jungle how hard would it be for the camera man to casually turn the camera in the direction for Ben to look. And that secret advantage....they could have had multiple "advantages" lined up and selected the fire building one in hopes of favoring Ben to live....a military guy probably has the training to start a fire and they were banking on that. Like I said its a gut feeling.

Is Chrissy the most likable person...no but she deserved the win.

Best momemt of the night was Joe basically pointing out Ben's jury performance sucked but yet it didn't matter in the end.

At least I don't have to look at Lauren's permanent bitch face anymore.

It almost felt like a SNL parody when they cued up "pull at the heartstrings" music when Ben was playing the veteran sympathy card at the final tribal. That was almost as bad a s Adam playing his dying mother card awhile back. Some lines you shouldn't cross.

Not sure if I can even finish watching the reunion special knowing Ben won....and he couldn't even manage the class enough to show up dressed up for the live TV finale.

Edited December 22, 2017 by North of Eden

[Daisy]

31 minutes ago, Rbonnie said:

 

Daisy. Are you saying that you don't like chocolate ice cream?  I'm calling the police

 

i really don't. like i love chocolate. and i love ice cream. i just don't love chocolate ice cream. i will do like vanilla ice cream with lots of fudgey chunks or swirls (i make my own) but just pure chocolate? nah.

Please don't hate me. 

[Jextella]

5 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

I was kinda upset in that effing reunion, 12mins ads, 5mins Ben&friends, 8mins ghost island, what?! 5mins talking to Ben, Ryan, Chrissy, 30 secs talk to Lauren, it was just upsetting

I don't care about that stupid ghost island a.k.a. exile island 2.0. Grrr

There must be a reason the finale doesn't show discussions with the other players.  I'd like to know what it is, 'cause it makes no sense and is pretty disappointing!

4 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

Chrissy was grasping at straws with the “mom card” representing everyone. 

 

This my first reaction, but then I started thinking about it, and there is a ton of truth and sense in what she said.  There's still a stereotype of what people think mothers should be.  I support Chrissy bringing it to the table.  It's a real consideration.

9 hours ago, NeverLate said:

The final TC was apparently three hours! I think Ben would of been exhausted and drained...actually they all would of been..

Geeze.  Seems they'd run outta things to say before then!

9 hours ago, Daisy said:

nd from probsts own mouth this "advantage" is in because

"This idea came about to solve a problem that has bothered me for years. If someone plays a great game and gets to the final four, it has always bothered me that the other three can simply say, “We can’t beat him, so let’s all just vote him out.”" - Jeff Probst -  ew.com 

the man is bothered that people vote out people  so they can win. 
which is the entire point of the show. 
 

 

Advantages: I don't like advantages.  They aren't earned, and they disrupt the rules of the game in a random sort of way which creates unfair situations.  I also think that they provide production a means of affecting outcomes "legally".  For me, they call into question the integrity of the game and the show.  Not a fan.

Additional idols: I don't mind additional idols because they are things players can work at to find. Although, I do wonder if production hides the idols in places they know favored players will look. 

Twists: My take on twists is that "it depends".  I didn't mind the one this episode, i.e. the fire-making contest for 3rd place.  I actually like that players have to compete for 3rd place in some way. 

8 hours ago, huskerj12 said:

Am I missing something here? Isn't it literally a federal crime for a game show to change/interfere/manipulate rules when money/winnings are involved? Like, isn't that well known? The producers and editors obviously play with our minds a bit in some ways, but I don't think they're allowed to introduce unplanned twists and changes that will give certain contestants an advantage, let alone lead Ben to hidden idols and make up a fire challenge to keep him in the game. It's amazing how many people are convinced that is happening every single season haha. I wasn't crazy about the secret twist at the end, but it was going to happen whether Ben had the upside down U or not.

I don't think big shows like Survivor could get away with tampering with things TOO much.  Survivor producers were scrutinized early on when a past contestant claimed shenanigans.  That person was quickly shut down, but I think Survivor producers learned a lesson there.  If they ever did mess with results in a big way, it would eventually make its way to the public, and the show would be shut down.
  
Still, I think there are ways production can and probably does mess with things "legally" via the advantages and placement of idols.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Jextella

[ljenkins782]

6 hours ago, NeverLate said:

Well I loved the twist, and Ben didnt have help with his fire, thank goodness, he didnt have clue..otoh Devon could have, should have practised, as Chrissy wanted him in the F3..

Devon was perfectly competent at fire making as well, it's not like he'd never started one before and needed that practice. He just didn't get his going in time at the challenge. 

Ben is the luckiest man on earth that the producers introduced this twist at the very end, as he was a dead man walking after fucking up the immunity challenge with the upside down U when he desperately needed that immunity due to his lack of alliances. 

[Never Again]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

i really don't. like i love chocolate. and i love ice cream. i just don't love chocolate ice cream. i will do like vanilla ice cream with lots of fudgey chunks or swirls (i make my own) but just pure chocolate? nah.

Please don't hate me. 

Lol no hate especially with that cute avatar. Just inconceivable to me to not insanely love chocolate ice cream. And also, you make your own ice cream??   You are not a typical human!

[NeverLate]

24 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Devon was perfectly competent at fire making as well, it's not like he'd never started one before and needed that practice. He just didn't get his going in time at the challenge. 

Ben is the luckiest man on earth that the producers introduced this twist at the very end, as he was a dead man walking after fucking up the immunity challenge with the upside down U when he desperately needed that immunity due to his lack of alliances. 

Well Chrissy's plan bombed, which is not like a Ben bomb!..:)

[millennium]

5 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

 

I understand why Chrissy lost, and I don't bash whoever wins, because at the end of the day they won.  However, I really don't care for the nth iteration of the mom/middle age woman getting crushed in the FTC (Monica, Lisa, Dawn, Sherrie, Missy, Carolyn etc.).  At least the jury seemed to give her some respect.  

I despised her from the start ("I'm a hero because I'm a mom and I work") but she deserves the respect and the win because she won 4 immunity challenges.

I call sexism on the show for the constant labeling of Chrissy as "the most immunity challenges won by a woman."   They never say "the most immunity wins by a man."   Honor players by their accomplishments, regardless of gender.   "By a woman" sounds patronizing.

[babs1226]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I call sexism on the show for the constant labeling of Chrissy as "the most immunity challenges won by a woman."   They never say "the most immunity wins by a man."   Honor players by their accomplishments, regardless of gender.   "By a woman" sounds patronizing.

Imagine this happening in the patriarchal society we are stuck in lol.  I did like the fact that it was pointed out that, out of all of the individual immunities this season, only one was won by a man :)

[needschocolate]

11 hours ago, candall said:

I don't know why everyone's complaining about it being rigged in favor of Ben--the only guy who found idols was the only guy looking for idols.  Never mind "Why didn't they keep an eye on him?"--why didn't they hunt for the damn idols themselves?

This "nobody else was looking for idols" discussion comes up every season and there is always the response that everyone is looking for idols but they don't show it because it because they only show the times people find idols.  Watching a bunch of people wandering around and digging in the dirt would be rather boring and most would rather watch players strategizing than idol-hunting.  However, this season was different.  The players, except Ben, pretty much admitted (in the final few days) that they didn't look for idols and weren't all that concerned with Ben looking because they were so sure that there weren't any more idols to be found.  Why they would be so sure of that, I don't know. Idols get re-hidden after they are played.  Plus, there were four people, they could have taken turns keeping an eye on Ben - or just keeping an eye open, since it is becoming more and more common that the idols are hidden at camp.

[Eolivet]

17 hours ago, kassa said:

I too thought the teaser for next season was about bringing back people who had played themselves right out of the game.  But it was all worth it to be reminded of "it's a fucking STICK!"

"Played themselves out of the game" makes a lot more sense than anything else I've heard (I thought it was something like "being haunted" -- thus, ghost island). I still don't quite understand how Lauren giving away her half-idol, Erik giving away individual immunity, Eliza's stick, James' two idols and Jay's fake idol have anything to do with new players at all. This seems a little high-concept for CBS.

(and I renew my objection to Jay's fake idol being included alongside these other blunders/counting as playing himself out of the game, he'd have gone home either way! Okay I'll shut up now.)

But I'm easy. Any excuse to see this again:

Edited December 22, 2017 by Eolivet

[Special K]

1 minute ago, needschocolate said:

This "nobody else was looking for idols" discussion comes up every season and there is always the response that everyone is looking for idols but they don't show it because it because they only show the times people find idols.  Watching a bunch of people wandering around and digging in the dirt would be rather boring and most would rather watch players strategizing than idol-hunting.  However, this season was different.  The players, except Ben, pretty much admitted (in the final few days) that they didn't look for idols and weren't all that concerned with Ben looking because they were so sure that there weren't any more idols to be found.  Why they would be so sure of that, I don't know. Idols get re-hidden after they are played.  Plus, there were four people, they could have taken turns keeping an eye on Ben - or just keeping an eye open, since it is becoming more and more common that the idols are hidden at camp.

I really think they should stop hiding new idols after a certain point in the competition.  Like in other shows (PR, Top Chef), contestants can win "immunity" in the subsequent challenge, but they stop giving immunity away after it gets down to a certain number of contestants. 

Anyway, if I was on Survivor, I don't think I'd think that they would hide an idol so late in the game within a few hours of it being used -- the producers must have had to rush back and hide a new idol while the contestants were either coming back from TC, or the contestants were held back in order for it to be hidden.   I might assume it would get place overnight or the next day or maybe not at all.

[Daisy]

Okay. so something (else) that was bugging me, and that was with Ben's. "I'm going to play this NOW" idol, and Jeff confirming it was indeed a HII, and a lot of people were like that's not fair/cheating he never used to do that, and I was like because no one ever did it before. 

My survivor-pedia brain finally kicked in. 
it kinda-sorta happened before. not with a legitimate one, but with a fake one.
Jaime from China found James's fake tablet thingy, and she asked Jeff if he could confirm if it was real. 
Jeff said no, she'd have to play it. 
They voted, she played it, she got laughed at and booted out of the game. 

that's the only thing i can think of it actually happening. 
so that's kinda of a graumph too. 

 

 

 

-------------=------------------------------

editing because i got corrected. :) 
Jaime asked for verification
Ben played it. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Daisy

[Special K]

22 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

But I'm easy. Any excuse to see this again:

 

I love both parts of that -- Michaela and Jay's straightforward response.  Epic!

[Daisy]

Just now, Special K said:

I love both parts of that -- Michaela and Jay's straightforward response.  Epic!

 

I know. 
like. yah, I did it. 

[ProfCrash]

19 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

This "nobody else was looking for idols" discussion comes up every season and there is always the response that everyone is looking for idols but they don't show it because it because they only show the times people find idols.  Watching a bunch of people wandering around and digging in the dirt would be rather boring and most would rather watch players strategizing than idol-hunting.  However, this season was different.  The players, except Ben, pretty much admitted (in the final few days) that they didn't look for idols and weren't all that concerned with Ben looking because they were so sure that there weren't any more idols to be found.  Why they would be so sure of that, I don't know. Idols get re-hidden after they are played.  Plus, there were four people, they could have taken turns keeping an eye on Ben - or just keeping an eye open, since it is becoming more and more common that the idols are hidden at camp.

Ben has said in his exit interviews that Mike was looking. He specifically said that Mike was about 15 minutes late to the last idol. Ashley said that she was following Ben around and trying to keep an eye on him. The only time someone wasn't with Ben was in the early morning, when Ben would get up and search while the others were sleeping. The last idol showed Ben hunting in the dark. He was feeling around hoping to find something but it was night time so he was using his hands to feel around and dig in places. He sat down at the raft as the sun was coming up and saw the clue that was there. More likely then not the clue was there all along and Ben could not see it in the middle of the night when it was pitch black.

So yeah, the others were looking for idols and trying to keep track of Ben. But the show is not going to show that because there is a ton of other things to show and it is going to be boring showing all the times people are spending looking for idols.

2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Okay. so something (else) that was bugging me, and that was with Ben's. "I'm going to play this NOW" idol, and Jeff confirming it was indeed a HII, and a lot of people were like that's not fair/cheating he never used to do that, and I was like because no one ever did it before. 

My survivor-pedia brain finally kicked in. 
it kinda-sorta happened before. not with a legitimate one, but with a fake one.
Jaime from China found James's fake tablet thingy, and she asked Jeff if he could confirm if it was real. 
Jeff said no, she'd have to play it. 
They voted, she played it, she got laughed at and booted out of the game. 

that's the only thing i can think of it actually happening. 
so that's kinda of a graumph too. 

The difference is that Jamie asked to verify that it was an idol and Jeff said that he could not do that until it was played. Ben played his idol. He handed it to Jeff and said he was playing it. At that moment, Jeff confirmed that it was a real idol and that Ben had played it for himself.

I have no problem with how that played out. While Hidden Immunity Idols are normally played after the votes, I don't think there is any specific rule that says they cannot be played before the vote. We have seen people pull them out and wear them, hoping to either draw votes to themselves or away from themselves (bluffing an idol play to change the vote). Jeff has never said that those idols are fake or not, he just lets them sit there. Chrissy was wearing the dead idol and Jeff did not say that it was a dead idol, he let it sit there. Ben choose to play an idol before the vote, there is nothing wrong with that. Once played it, Jeff confirmed that it was a real idol.

[Eolivet]

2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

I know. 
like. yah, I did it. 

(Epic, epic, epic scene. And it doesn't even end there. Michaela leaving is one of the best exits ever.)

But again, I ask ... ghost island how?

[Daisy]

8 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Ben has said in his exit interviews that Mike was looking. He specifically said that Mike was about 15 minutes late to the last idol. Ashley said that she was following Ben around and trying to keep an eye on him. The only time someone wasn't with Ben was in the early morning, when Ben would get up and search while the others were sleeping. The last idol showed Ben hunting in the dark. He was feeling around hoping to find something but it was night time so he was using his hands to feel around and dig in places. He sat down at the raft as the sun was coming up and saw the clue that was there. More likely then not the clue was there all along and Ben could not see it in the middle of the night when it was pitch black.

So yeah, the others were looking for idols and trying to keep track of Ben. But the show is not going to show that because there is a ton of other things to show and it is going to be boring showing all the times people are spending looking for idols.

The difference is that Jamie asked to verify that it was an idol and Jeff said that he could not do that until it was played. Ben played his idol. He handed it to Jeff and said he was playing it. At that moment, Jeff confirmed that it was a real idol and that Ben had played it for himself.

I have no problem with how that played out. While Hidden Immunity Idols are normally played after the votes, I don't think there is any specific rule that says they cannot be played before the vote. We have seen people pull them out and wear them, hoping to either draw votes to themselves or away from themselves (bluffing an idol play to change the vote). Jeff has never said that those idols are fake or not, he just lets them sit there. Chrissy was wearing the dead idol and Jeff did not say that it was a dead idol, he let it sit there. Ben choose to play an idol before the vote, there is nothing wrong with that. Once played it, Jeff confirmed that it was a real idol.

 

kay thanks for that - i'll let my fellow survivor-ite know. 
I originally didn't have a problem with it, but so many people were like WAHHHAA i neeeded to do some SESI (Survivor Episode Scene Investigation... Oooo. wahaee. oo oo. oo o.)

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Ben has said in his exit interviews that Mike was looking. He specifically said that Mike was about 15 minutes late to the last idol.

I think Ben addressed this at FTC, too.  He said he found them all not because he was the only one looking but because he was just a little bit earlier.  He mentioned Mike at the raft right after him, Mike searching the shelter right after him, and other instances of him just beating someone to the punch.  

I get it.  I don't think I would go search for idols in the dark because it's dark and they don't have flashlights.  The odds of finding one in the dark seem extremely low.  I imagine too they have to awaken their cameraman for it?   Seems kind of rude.  

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, Jextella said:

There must be a reason the finale doesn't show discussions with the other players.  I'd like to know what it is, 'cause it makes no sense and is pretty disappointing!

This my first reaction, but then I started thinking about it, and there is a ton of truth and sense in what she said.  There's still a stereotype of what people think mothers should be.  I support Chrissy bringing it to the table.  It's a real consideration.

Geeze.  Seems they'd run outta things to say before then!

Advantages: I don't like advantages.  They aren't earned, and they disrupt the rules of the game in a random sort of way which creates unfair situations.  I also think that they provide production a means of affecting outcomes "legally".  For me, they call into question the integrity of the game and the show.  Not a fan.

Additional idols: I don't mind additional idols because they are things players can work at to find. Although, I do wonder if production hides the idols in places they know favored players will look. 

Twists: My take on twists is that "it depends".  I didn't mind the one this episode, i.e. the fire-making contest for 3rd place.  I actually like that players have to compete for 3rd place in some way. 

I don't think big shows like Survivor could get away with tampering with things TOO much.  Survivor producers were scrutinized early on when a past contestant claimed shenanigans.  That person was quickly shut down, but I think Survivor producers learned a lesson there.  If they ever did mess with results in a big way, it would eventually make its way to the public, and the show would be shut down.
  
Still, I think there are ways production can and probably does mess with things "legally" via the advantages and placement of idols.

I think producers could get away with a good amount of shenanigans.  The contestants sign strict confidentiality agreements.  Plus, a lot of shenanigans could be done so subtly that the players wouldn't even realize it.  For example, they could choose immunity challenges they think would be better for their favorite player.  If there is a clue, idol or advantage after a reward challenge, they could manipulate that by putting it with the losers or winners depending upon which group their favorite player(s) are with.  I'm sure there are lots of other things they could do.

[Hpmec]

Probst's transparent attempt to fend off criticism of the producers' gift to Ben, the final twist that kept him alive in the game, by announcing it would be repeated next season, was a shark jumping moment the likes of which hasn't been seen since Fonzie donned those water skis. The producers saw to it that the war vet with PTSD wasn't going home to his wife and kids in 4th place no matter what. I suspect had Devon won the fire challenge,  Ben would have been given the opportunity to arm wrestle Ryan to take over that 3rd seat. What happened to old school survivor, where idols and clues to idols were scarce, challenges didn't always involve frantically solving a puzzle, contestants struggled with lack of food and harsh conditions, and the production team didn't so obviously play favorites? How about "Survivor: Back to Basics" for a welcome change? 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't think big shows like Survivor could get away with tampering with things TOO much.  Survivor producers were scrutinized early on when a past contestant claimed shenanigans.  That person was quickly shut down, but I think Survivor producers learned a lesson there.  If they ever did mess with results in a big way, it would eventually make its way to the public, and the show would be shut down.

There's a big difference between the manipulation that Stacey Stillman alleged and what goes on behind the scenes. In Stillman's case, the producers apparently pulled aside several contestants and persuaded them to change their votes. That's something you could conceivably prove in court, assuming your contract with the show does not prevent bringing suit.

BUT: if producers want to throw last minute "twists" into the game to save a favored player, how is anyone going to prove that? Jeff Probst or Mark Burnett would basically have to come forward and admit it, and they're never going to do that. None of the contestants are privy to the machinations that go on behind closed doors. There really isn't much risk in pulling crap like this last minute "advantage" that saved Ben.

[Rachel RSL]

19 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

After one more revote, they’d have a fire-building competition, if the tie wasn’t broken.

Live, on stage at the finale in L.A.?

19 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Didn't Probst say at the reunion for season 34 that in case of a tie at FTC the person in the F3 that was not part of the tie would place the deciding vote? I thought he talked about it at last season's reunion and that's why the internet was convinced there'd be a tie this season. 

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks!

 

Quote

But I feel like Ben's win legitimizes 'finding HIIs' as a strategy and I really hate that.

I would say it legitimizes it except for the fact that I don't believe for even a second that Ben found all those idols on his own, without help from the production fairies.

[Jextella]

50 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

Probst's transparent attempt to fend off criticism of the producers' gift to Ben, the final twist that kept him alive in the game, by announcing it would be repeated next season, was a shark jumping moment the likes of which hasn't been seen since Fonzie donned those water skis. The producers saw to it that the war vet with PTSD wasn't going home to his wife and kids in 4th place no matter what. I suspect had Devon won the fire challenge,  Ben would have been given the opportunity to arm wrestle Ryan to take over that 3rd seat. What happened to old school survivor, where idols and clues to idols were scarce, challenges didn't always involve frantically solving a puzzle, contestants struggled with lack of food and harsh conditions, and the production team didn't so obviously play favorites? How about "Survivor: Back to Basics" for a welcome change? 

Devon started fires around camp.  In fact we were shown him doing so at one point.  I can't help but wonder if there was some tampering of the flint block or knife that Devon used.

Agree with all that that the show allows many ways for producers to manipulate outcomes "legally".   The addition of the advantages was a bit much for me. 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Every time I am reminded of Jay I think about how I was so convinced that he was going to win MvGX. LOL.

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

Jaime from China found James's fake tablet thingy, and she asked Jeff if he could confirm if it was real. 
Jeff said no, she'd have to play it. 
They voted, she played it, she got laughed at and booted out of the game. 

That whole thing annoyed me to no end. Why do I watch this show lol!

50 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Devon started fires around camp.  In fact we were shown him doing so at one point.  I can't help but wonder if there was some tampering of the flint block or knife that Devon used.

I really don't think they'd go that far. I think Devon can definitely make a fire, but luck just happened to be more on Ben's side there. Honestly the fire challenge isn't even necessarily a skill test so much as a luck test.

[Special K]

Or Ben's kindling/coconut husks was dryer/older... ;)

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

Or Ben's kindling/coconut husks was dryer/older... ;)

They really could've been probably. And that would be more proof that that there's a good amount of luck involved. I mean, unless they purposefully gave him dryer husks lol.

[Ellee]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Every time I am reminded of Jay I think about how I was so convinced that he was going to win MvGX. LOL.

That whole thing annoyed me to no end. Why do I watch this show lol!

I really don't think they'd go that far. I think Devon can definitely make a fire, but luck just happened to be more on Ben's side there. Honestly the fire challenge isn't even necessarily a skill test so much as a luck test.

I think Devon was a little more stressed about competing with Ben than he thought.  I’ve never made a fire but it seemed like he had a lot of unnecessary movement in working with the flint.  I don’t know.  

[ratgirlagogo]

On 12/21/2017 at 0:05 PM, Daisy said:

On 12/21/2017 at 11:57 AM, Special K said:

Who were the other women who have won four Individual immunities?  I'm guessing Kim, Parvati....??

Kelly Wigglesworth, (Borneo), Jenna Morasca (Amazon), Kim Spradlin (one World), + Chrissy. 

Amanda has won 4 total, as did Parvarti, and Andrea. (multiple seasons) 
Andrea won immunity on 3 seasons (only one). 

Please explain to me why this fact of Chrissy's tying four previous female contestants was mentioned 7 or 8 times during this endless show - and yet THE NAMES OF THE FOUR WOMEN PLAYERS SHE WAS TIED WITH WERE NEVER MENTIONED!!!???  EVER!!!??!!

But we did get that shot of Cochran at the beginning of the reunion, cause god knows everyone was just living for that.

[ratgirlagogo]

9 hours ago, needschocolate said:

20 hours ago, candall said:

I don't know why everyone's complaining about it being rigged in favor of Ben--the only guy who found idols was the only guy looking for idols.  Never mind "Why didn't they keep an eye on him?"--why didn't they hunt for the damn idols themselves?

This "nobody else was looking for idols" discussion comes up every season and there is always the response that everyone is looking for idols but they don't show it because it because they only show the times people find idols.  Watching a bunch of people wandering around and digging in the dirt would be rather boring and most would rather watch players strategizing than idol-hunting.  However, this season was different.  The players, except Ben, pretty much admitted (in the final few days) that they didn't look for idols and weren't all that concerned with Ben looking because they were so sure that there weren't any more idols to be found.  Why they would be so sure of that, I don't know. Idols get re-hidden after they are played.  Plus, there were four people, they could have taken turns keeping an eye on Ben - or just keeping an eye open, since it is becoming more and more common that the idols are hidden at camp.

From Dalton Ross' EW recap:

Quote

 While the others make small talk, Ben leaves immediately to go idol hunting. He doesn’t even bother making up any phony baloney lie about what he’s up to. He just runs away. “Ben is the bad guy in any horror movie,” says Mike. “You keep trying to kill him, and he keeps coming back to life.” That’s fine, Mike, but it’s hard to kill the bad guy in a horror movie if you just let him walk around your town unimpeded with an ax for no reason.

“I wonder where he is,” says Chrissy, who then makes no effort whatsoever to find out where he is. Just like last week, Ben cannot believe his good fortune: “It is absolutely crazy nobody is following me. Everybody is sleeping. Everybody is zonked out cozy with their pillows.” 

[needschocolate]

9 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Ben has said in his exit interviews that Mike was looking. He specifically said that Mike was about 15 minutes late to the last idol. Ashley said that she was following Ben around and trying to keep an eye on him. The only time someone wasn't with Ben was in the early morning, when Ben would get up and search while the others were sleeping. The last idol showed Ben hunting in the dark. He was feeling around hoping to find something but it was night time so he was using his hands to feel around and dig in places. He sat down at the raft as the sun was coming up and saw the clue that was there. More likely then not the clue was there all along and Ben could not see it in the middle of the night when it was pitch black.

So yeah, the others were looking for idols and trying to keep track of Ben. But the show is not going to show that because there is a ton of other things to show and it is going to be boring showing all the times people are spending looking for idols.

I don't doubt you, but I still don't understand why Chrissy and Ryan didn't defend themselves on this at the FTC.  Perhaps it was the editing, but they just basically shrugged when they were asked why they didn't keep an eye on Ben?  And, if it was the editing, why would the producers not want us to know that others were looking and only Ben was able to find them? - knowing this would feed write into the Ben is awesome story they are trying to tell. And, if Mike got to the raft 15 minutes after Ben, didn't Mike see the clue on the raft or did Ben cover it up? And, if he saw the clue then why did he still assume that Ben didn't have an idol.   Note: I don't expect you to be able to answer these questions, I am just venting. 

 

9 hours ago, Special K said:

I really think they should stop hiding new idols after a certain point in the competition.  Like in other shows (PR, Top Chef), contestants can win "immunity" in the subsequent challenge, but they stop giving immunity away after it gets down to a certain number of contestants. 

The difference is that on the other shows have judges and people advance based on how good they are.  On Survivor, the other contestants vote people out and being a good player or a worthy winner actually increases your chances of being sent home.

 

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

But again, I ask ... ghost island how?

The only thing I can come up with is that these new round of players will be faced with the same twists/advantages that have haunted players in the past.  Giving the shell away will always haunt Lauren, so they will do that advantage again next season and see if the new person plays it better.  I think it would make a lot more sense to use returning players, but didn't they already do a redemption season? Frankly, I think they are just grasping at any way they can to name each season.  I couldn't tell by gameplay who was a Healer, a Hero or a Hustler.  Arguably, the biggest Hustler out there was Ben and he was a Hero.  Same with Jeff trying to make the Outwit, Outplay, Outlast catchphrase mean something specific (what does outlasting have to do with picking the right people for the jury? - outlasting just means that you got to the end by outwitting/outplaying  - or by being a goat)

[candall]

Geez, I'm glad Devon's flint didn't break--Mueller's already got his hands full.

[fishcakes]

On 12/21/2017 at 2:59 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Didn't Probst say at the reunion for season 34 that in case of a tie at FTC the person in the F3 that was not part of the tie would place the deciding vote? I thought he talked about it at last season's reunion and that's why the internet was convinced there'd be a tie this season.

He did say that. And it means that Chrissy went into FTC with an advantage over Ben because he needed to have more votes to win; she only had to tie and then let Ryan -- who she had just saved with the new twist -- give her the win.

 

On 12/21/2017 at 4:28 PM, Daisy said:

I hate the twist put him there. 

The right to choose whom you want comes with winning final immunity.

That's only true in an F2 season. In an F3 season, winning final immunity gives you a seat at FTC and one vote as to who joins you. The other three people also get to vote and it might go the way the immunity winner wants and it might not.

 

2 hours ago, needschocolate said:

And, if Mike got to the raft 15 minutes after Ben, didn't Mike see the clue on the raft or did Ben cover it up?

Ben scraped the clue off the side of the raft. I think he did that with another idol clue as well that was on a tree, but I don't really remember. I might be getting it mixed up with the clue that Cole scraped off a tree.

[spritz]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:53 AM, Bouffe said:

This debate has been going for a long time. A man who plays aggressively, is confident and at times cocky or arrogant, is just a man who plays the game HARD. A woman who does the same thing is labeled a bitch and a fake. So yes, I agree, Chrissy was held to a bit of a different standard than Ben was. Ben had his "Ben Bombs" while Chrissy was "gloating". To me, they both looked like they were proud of what they did and of the moves they were making. But of course, YMMV.

 

It was kind of ironic that a person who had PTSD, because of his combat experience with explosions and firefights, had "Ben Bombs" to use as his secret weapon at TCs. 

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, Jeanne222 said:

I think that's because I don't think he won fairly.  Would his marine friends have appeared had he lost?  We're they flown in for what???

Probably. There have been past reunions where a contestant(s), who didn't win, was given more screen time and attention. Had Ben not won and Chrissy did win, I assume Probst would have given Chrissy short shrift, and then moved on to focus on Ben and PTSD.

[Lantern7]

5 minutes ago, spritz said:

Probably. There have been past reunions where a contestant(s), who didn't win, was given more screen time and attention. Had Ben not won and Chrissy did win, I assume Probst would have given Chrissy short shrift, and then moved on to focus on Ben and PTSD.

Thought: They would come out regardless on how Ben did. He won, so Jeff pulled that before the first commercial.

Also, thinking about it, I didn't have a strong opinion on most of the players, including Chrissy. I think she did bug me, but she no doubt resembles a human being in "real life." You say "bad mother on reality show," I take The Book of Linda Weaver off the shelf.