S05.E05: Rewind

[paigow]

With help from Lance Hunter, nothing will stop Fitz from finding the lost team as his secret journey is revealed.

Edited December 20, 2017 by paigow

[Statman]

Can't wait to see Hunter.  Hope he sticks around for a few episodes.

The Spy's Goodbye scene when he and Bobbi departed the show still brings a tear to my eye.

[ohjoy]

That was perfect, right down to the Star Wars reference.

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, garnetarden said:

That was perfect, right down to the Star Wars reference.

That was awesome.

Well, that certainly made up for the previous lack of Fitz. Nice to see Iain get his showcase ep. And I like they're not glossing over what happened in the Framework, but using it.

[SnoGirl]

I loved it. Powers that be, Fitz and Hunter sparkle together. They’re just missing Mack and the bromance is back alive! Please bring back our favorite spies. Bobbi was also missed.

Liked that the show kept bringing up the framework, Fitz’s guilt and we even got a moment of lost words. Fitz is messed up from the framework and Im glad they acknowledged it.

The Star Wars references were strong this week. “I love you.” “I know.” Gah. And being frozen. Fitz entering into a den of mercenaries, thieves and killers. So Fitz is Luke, Leia, and Solo...with a little darkside thrown in for good measure. I loved it. They’re in space, who wouldnt be making Star Wars references?

[AimingforYoko]

1 minute ago, SnoGirl said:

They’re in space, who wouldnt be making Star Wars references?

Yeah, it's like they work for the same company or something.

[Jediknight]

That was incredible.  Easily the best episode of the season, and it's up there with the very best of this show.  I don't think I'd rank it ahead of "Self Control" (the show's pinnacle), but it is up there.

I loved everything about this episode.  Fitz and Hunter being Fitz and Hunter, and just kicking ass, the Hintons being back, Hunter saying he and Bobbi would protect the Hintons, Fitz's role being to save them all in the end, Enoch being awesome, and potentially setting up the big bad for when the team returns.

The only bad thing about the episode was the commercials, because that meant the episode wasn't on.

[MisterGlass]

Nice to see Hunter.  I hope this isn't the last time.  His rapport with Fitz is always fun to see. 

The continuity with Fitz's guilt makes sense, and Ian plays it well.  I wish I had rewatched the end of the Framework before starting this season so that I was a bit more current. 

I was having a Fringe flashback there with September Enoch, but he seems genuinely willing to help.

In addition to Star Wars, Fitz through in a "Beam me up Scotty," and I think the Ark of the Covenant was in the warehouse - there was a box with a black bird on the side on a high shelf.

[caws 727]

Anyone think Hunter and Bobbi are the parents of (forgot his name) - the guy that set up Daisy to the Blueman Group??

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, caws 727 said:

Anyone think Hunter and Bobbi are the parents of (forgot his name) - the guy that set up Daisy to the Blueman Group??

Deke? Not unless they got frozen too. Great-Grandparents maybe.

[Lady Calypso]

Yep, that is what I needed to remind me why I like the show. The space arc really drags me down, so having the show feel like itself again was really, really nice. As much as I'd liked to actually get into the dystopian arc, I guess it's simply not for me.

This episode, however? Top notch and everything I like about the show. It was still pretty dark for the show, not a whole lot of humour, but it had more hope. Plus, the lighting is better when they can shoot on location. 

This wasn't like a solo Simmons episode, as there was really just her and one other person, but it really was great to pretty much have Fitz kick ass. We got to see a little of his Framework Leopold Fitz (I'll just call him Leopold) with how he threatened Enoch, but we also saw that sweet, caring Fitz we've known the entire series, with his interaction with Robin. Sure, Fitz is a whole lot different in the last few seasons, as evidenced by Hunter's reaction to him, but he's just matured and grew into someone more confident and badass. 

It did suck to hear about his guilt, and it killed me at the beginning of the episode when he threw out a theory about how HE did something to the team, but it was needed. He literally went from the Framework to his friends being missing and then him being captured all in a matter of a week. But damn, six months before he even got out of there. That's longer than the rest of SHIELD being in Future Space. At least they've only been there for a few weeks. 

Speaking of Hunter, I'm thrilled to see him, even if it's only for this one episode. I'd love it if he came back after this Space Opera arc is done, so we can have some more bromance scenes and a Battle of the Accents. I loved the Star Wars reference. That was just the icing on the cake. 

Also, I gotta admit, Military Chick? I'm actually intrigued with whatever that arc is, as I suspect we might get that as the second arc once they return from Future Space. 

I am super excited with whatever plan Enoch concocted for Fitz to save everyone. I'm still unsure what the plan was to bring them to Future Space, though. How is that going to stop the end of the world? 

[SnoGirl]

3 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Yeah, it's like they work for the same company or something.

Lol. Yeah. Although they’ve making references for years. I kinda love they are leaning heavy into it. I know that they like to do tie-ins...but now Im wondering instead of going to space bc The Last Jedi came out. Not as a tie-in obviously. Infinity Wars is still far off. Its just an interesting connection.

2 minutes ago, caws 727 said:

Anyone think Hunter and Bobbi are the parents of (forgot his name) - the guy that set up Daisy to the Blueman Group??

Ummm, I do now! I thought he was a Gemma/Leo baby. But he does look a LOT ike Hunter.

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

That was incredible.  Easily the best episode of the season, and it's up there with the very best of this show.  I don't think I'd rank it ahead of "Self Control" (the show's pinnacle), but it is up there.

I loved everything about this episode.  Fitz and Hunter being Fitz and Hunter, and just kicking ass, the Hintons being back, Hunter saying he and Bobbi would protect the Hintons, Fitz's role being to save them all in the end, Enoch being awesome, and potentially setting up the big bad for when the team returns.

The only bad thing about the episode was the commercials, because that meant the episode wasn't on.

Loved that Hunter instantly volunteered to watch over Robin. He is a big softy. So many hugs, so many normal conversations with Fitz. I loved it.

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, caws 727 said:

Anyone think Hunter and Bobbi are the parents of (forgot his name) - the guy that set up Daisy to the Blueman Group??

Huh. Well, probably not parents, but perhaps grandparents or great-grandparents. I am convinced Deke is the ancestor of SOMEONE we know. 

[Lobsel Vith]

31 minutes ago, caws 727 said:

Anyone think Hunter and Bobbi are the parents of (forgot his name) - the guy that set up Daisy to the Blueman Group??

Why do so many think Deke is someone's son or grandson?

[elle]

45 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

I think the Ark of the Covenant was in the warehouse - there was a box with a black bird on the side on a high shelf.

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the box and insignia, but were not all the symbols burned off by the Ark?

I generally do not watch this show, and I usually do not have this kind of timing luck, but as I was scrolling through channels I happened to land here just as the line "release the ferrets" was uttered.  One of the best lines I have heard from my TV in a long time!

[Lantern7]

Plus Side For Getting Inhumans: We get new AoS in two weeks, just after the recognized holiday season Not really a hiatus. And we got Fitz ready to play hero. Should he fail, he'll probably get the gang back to their heroic selves and/or to 2017.

Speaking of years . . . has it been established in MCU continuity how long Captain America was on ice? Because I think Fitz matched that.  Also, I thought that the team was further into the future, beyond the 21st Century. Nope . . . it's 2091 AD, which means our heroes have to go back and prevent the destruction of Earth so that Disney/Marvel can make 2099-based movies. Minimum, you can make cases for Spider-Man, Doom, X-Men and Ghost Rider.

Pity we can't get Bobbi. I know Adrienne Palicki isn't hurting for work, but I kinda feel bad for her. First, her Wonder Woman pilot didn't take off. Then the spinoff wasn't picked up by ABC. And then pictures of the cast of Avengers: Infinity War, and Black Widow is now blonde and wielding staves . . . which is Mockingbird's canon deal. Meh, she's probably okay with it.

I'm good for Hunter coming back once things get back to (relative) normalcy.  Anybody want to bet he'll be in the current arc? Maybe he couldn't get another capsule from Enoch, and he got so drunk, he woke up in 2086. And it took him five full years to recover from the hangover. Full disclosure: I don't drink alcohol, and I don't know if that's believable even with the emphasis on hyperbole. In my defense, while AoS isn't as batshit insane as Legends of Tomorrow and Gotham, it has a lot of moments like that.

[SnoGirl]

13 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Why do so many think Deke is someone's son or grandson?

Well, they seem to be throwing everything onto the wall to see what sticks this season. Why not a descendant of an agent? They’re playing with time travel...it would amuse me if it was Talbot’s grandson. “So you’re saying my Grandson lived on a space station and was a dick? Well that’s just ridiculous.” 

They never mentioned if Talbot survived the headshot. We’re assuming he did right?

[AimingforYoko]

1 minute ago, SnoGirl said:

They never mentioned if Talbot survived the headshot. We’re assuming he did right?

Last we heard, he was in a coma.

[Lady Calypso]

22 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Why do so many think Deke is someone's son or grandson?

Theories floating around, mostly. I got it stuck in my head and now the idea is too tempting. Part of me, deep down, expects nothing to come of it, but it's fun to theorize. 

5 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Speaking of years . . . has it been established in MCU continuity how long Captain America was on ice? Because I think Fitz matched that.  Also, I thought that the team was further into the future, beyond the 21st Century. Nope . . . it's 2091 AD; which means our heroes have to go back and prevent the destruction of Earth so that Disney/Marvel can make 2099-based movies. Minimum, you can make cases for Spider-Man, Doom, X-Men and Ghost Rider.

Well, we know Fitz was put under for about 74 years. Steve was put under in 1945 up until the 2010s, so nearly 70 years. So yeah, Fitz got him beat by a few years. 

I thought that they were 90 years in the future, putting them in 2100. I was definitely surprised that they hadn't gotten into the 22nd century.

Also, do we know exactly when the Earth was destroyed yet? I don't think they specified an exact date. From what Deke told Daisy about her gaining enough power to supposedly destroy the world, I'd think it would be years down the road. But Enoch taking SHIELD when he did makes it seem like that future isn't that far off. 

[thuganomics85]

Hunter!  Great to see him again and be the reason Fitz was able to get sprung out of the pokey.  Still love their interactions and banter.  I just wish there was a way he could have gone to space/future with him, so we can see more of those two with Mack!  Glad that he at least mentioned Bobbi, although I hope we eventually get an appearance from her, whenever Adrianne Palicki isn't pushing hanging out with Seth MacFarlane on The Orville.

Glad we got a Fitz-centric episode and found out what he was up to during all of this.  Should have known it would involve him going into cryo-freeze or something to that nature.  Iain De Caestecker was great as always: especially with them continuing to explore his guilt for what happened in the Framework.  All in all, I agree with Hunter that every person; no matter how good overall; probably has something like that in them, and it was the case of the Framework/Aida manipulating things to bring that out of him.  Still, I can understand why he is still guilt-ridden over it.  Poor guy really needs a hug.  Hope he gets to Simmons soon, so he can get that hug!

With Talbot still down, it looks like Catherine Dent is now in charge.  And... she just shot two of her officers in their head for failing.  Yikes!  Talbot might have been a dick, but I don't even think he ever did that!  Tough boss!

Liked that they brought back Robin and her mother from the "Ascension" episode.

[CaptainTightpants]

I had forgotten how awesome and fun Hunter is! I hope he gets re-added to the cast later this season. I'd love to see his reaction to seeing Ghost Rider in person. 

I'm so glad that Fitz thought about proper packing for his naptime plan. It looks like he got weapons, Mack's super axe and at least 2 of Coulson's prosthetics (hopfully the full-on inspector gadget models). I can't wait for the tides to turn at the lighthouse! Let's see how they handle Shield agents who are fully eqipped instead of snatched through time before they can even grab a granola bar for the trip. 

Can we assume from the events of this episode that the military woman is pro-extinction event? An evil alien in a skinsuit maybe? I got a weird vibe from her at the beginning and that is definitely not how the military handles staffing issues. 

Poor ferrets! I hope that somebody finds them, they are accustomed to being pets not covert agents. Although I thought that was a reference to Beast Master and thoroughly enjoyed the reveal. 

[CaptainTightpants]

Also Hunter's little line about him and Bobbi nearly getting married again, "until the ninjas showed up", totally deserves a stand alone episode!

[AnimeMania]

9 minutes ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I got a weird vibe from her at the beginning and that is definitely not how the military handles staffing issues.

Which country's military are you referring to?

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

With Talbot still down, it looks like Catherine Dent is now in charge.  And... she just shot two of her officers in their head for failing.  Yikes!  Talbot might have been a dick, but I don't even think he ever did that!  Tough boss!

That's who that was! It was driving me crazy because she looked like Kate Mulgrew but obviously wasn't! But Danny from The (non-Agents of) Shield has evidently been hanging around with the Strike Team too long and has taken a page out of Vic Mackey's book!

1 hour ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I'm so glad that Fitz thought about proper packing for his naptime plan. It looks like he got weapons, Mack's super axe and at least 2 of Coulson's prosthetics (hopfully the full-on inspector gadget models). I can't wait for the tides to turn at the lighthouse! Let's see how they handle Shield agents who are fully eqipped instead of snatched through time before they can even grab a granola bar for the trip.

There were about a half-dozen Coulson hands in that case and one shotgun-axe. I loved that!

1 hour ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Also Hunter's little line about him and Bobbi nearly getting married again, "until the ninjas showed up", totally deserves a stand alone episode!

And as much as I love that line as a noodle incident reference and will accept it as such, here is hoping to all gods great and small that Adrianne Palicki's The Orville schedule is flexible enough for her to make an appearance on AoS so we can see this! Maybe they can do it like Marvel one-shot or webisodes like they did for Yo-Yo.
 

I wasn't sure what to make of Enoch in his first appearance but I'm sold by this episode! Also great to see Robin again. I have forgotten many of the season 1 plots. The only one I remember even somewhat distinctly was someone stealing/borrowing/falling into a Chitauri helmet that had space boogers in it that were causing all kinds of mayhem.

[paigow]

Did Fitz pack any shotgun shells? Where was the capsule stored for 74 years? If Virgil had the postcard, how did Fitz remain undiscovered? How did the capsule not get destroyed during the apocalypse?  

[CaptainTightpants]

41 minutes ago, paigow said:

Did Fitz pack any shotgun shells? Where was the capsule stored for 74 years? If Virgil had the postcard, how did Fitz remain undiscovered? How did the capsule not get destroyed during the apocalypse?  

It looks like the arsenal was welded into the wall at the lighthouse. With Fitz's luck it will be on a roach-infested level and they will have to shoot their way to the shotgun-axe! (I didn't see any shells but I assume that a genius like Fitz has them hermetically stored nearby.)

Whichever mystery aliens built the lighthouse originally clearly built it to last since it was able to be repurposed as a space station. But these people are desperate scavengers so I hope his cache somehow remained undiscovered. 

I'm more interested to know how so many people ended up on the lighthouse. Right now the only people there are Robin, Polly, Hunter and possibly Bobbi if Hunter can get word to her fast enough. (As an aside I really hope Deke is NOT a descendant of Bobbi and Hunter's like some are speculating. I'm not sold on his character.)

So either Hunter throws the doors open and gets people inside right before the big bang, or maybe there were a bunch of people on the ISS that migrated over? 

Robin originally had the postcard. And she looks to be less than 10 years old, so she would be around 80 in the future. I wonder if she is still on the Lighthouse? Or down on what is left of the earth? It would be interesting to see her again. Hopefully she didn't end up being sold off to some Kree, or massacred because she believes in the prophesy. Which would be hard to hide since she is the source of it. 

Fitz was sleeping in his capsule on a spaceship with Enoch. They were in orbit around a different planet when the big bang hit Earth. So Fitz was probably the safest person of all during the catastrophe. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by CaptainTightpants

[tv echo]

Great episode. I remember when I first started watching Agents of SHIELD in Season 1. I thought Fitz was a boring, generic character. Now he's one of my favorites. He's arguably the character that's evolved the most in five seasons. Last season especially, he showed his potential for evil when he tried to kill his team mates in the Framework. This season seems to be his redemption, where he is now going to save them (apparently) and alleviate his guilt.

Between Jemma's previous solo episode and now Fitz's featured episode, Elizabeth Henstridge and Iain De Caestecker have proven to be two of the best actors on this show.    

Edited December 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Raja]

8 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I had forgotten how awesome and fun Hunter is! I hope he gets re-added to the cast later this season. I'd love to see his reaction to seeing Ghost Rider in person. 

I'm so glad that Fitz thought about proper packing for his naptime plan. It looks like he got weapons, Mack's super axe and at least 2 of Coulson's prosthetics (hopfully the full-on inspector gadget models). I can't wait for the tides to turn at the lighthouse! Let's see how they handle Shield agents who are fully eqipped instead of snatched through time before they can even grab a granola bar for the trip. 

Can we assume from the events of this episode that the military woman is pro-extinction event? An evil alien in a skinsuit maybe? I got a weird vibe from her at the beginning and that is definitely not how the military handles staffing issues. 

Poor ferrets! I hope that somebody finds them, they are accustomed to being pets not covert agents. Although I thought that was a reference to Beast Master and thoroughly enjoyed the reveal. 

General Hale is something. What we don't know yet.

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Did Fitz pack any shotgun shells? Where was the capsule stored for 74 years? If Virgil had the postcard, how did Fitz remain undiscovered? How did the capsule not get destroyed during the apocalypse?  

He had the barrel mounted shell holder full at least. We know, maybe not Fitz, that shells will be available in the future.

 

Probably because of Hunter I liked it much better than 4722 Hours. Yes a more conventional story telling but I like comfortable. My favorite moment would be the Firefly call back in Zephyr 1. It might have only been icers but Hunter's look when Fitz went Leopold mode reminded me of Kaylee being freaked out with River  keeping base security out of Serenity.

[paigow]

Deke & Virgil are descended from Robin in some Lannister inbred way...

[SnoGirl]

1 hour ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Whichever mystery aliens built the lighthouse originally clearly built it to last since it was able to be repurposed as a space station. 

 

Robin originally had the postcard. And she looks to be less than 10 years old, so she would be around 80 in the future. I wonder if she is still on the Lighthouse? Or down on what is left of the earth? It would be interesting to see her again. Hopefully she didn't end up being sold off to some Kree, or massacred because she believes in the prophesy. Which would be hard to hide since she is the source of it. 

When I realized the light house was the space station I could not stop smiling. I was really hoping we’d see Hunter carving into the wall at some point, just so someone like May or Mack would see it and give them some more hope.

I wonder if Deke is a decendent of Robin now. According to Deke, she probably was rounded up and killed at some point. I do like that they brought back Robin and her mother, it was smart because thats the episode Fitz explains time. 

Im starting to get dizzy from the Time Travel issues we’re having. Daisy is not on Earth, so how did it really explode? And Fitz going to future, isnt that against his theory the time is unmovable? Fitz was not in that picture, so is he really supposed to be there? If Daisy is the issue, wouldnt it have been easier to kidnap her and freeze her for when she was supposed to blow up the Earth and then move on? Dont mind me, I love that they’re in Space but you would think there are easier solutions ?

[Raja]

31 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

When I realized the light house was the space station I could not stop smiling. I was really hoping we’d see Hunter carving into the wall at some point, just so someone like May or Mack would see it and give them some more hope.

I wonder if Deke is a decendent of Robin now. According to Deke, she probably was rounded up and killed at some point. I do like that they brought back Robin and her mother, it was smart because thats the episode Fitz explains time. 

Im starting to get dizzy from the Time Travel issues we’re having. Daisy is not on Earth, so how did it really explode? And Fitz going to future, isnt that against his theory the time is unmovable? Fitz was not in that picture, so is he really supposed to be there? If Daisy is the issue, wouldnt it have been easier to kidnap her and freeze her for when she was supposed to blow up the Earth and then move on? Dont mind me, I love that they’re in Space but you would think there are easier solutions ?

Like Daisy said from a few episodes she just didn't have that kind of power. By using her powers she would have died long before that sort of damage could be done. How her mother described her gift did make it theoretically possible however. She is just the most famous Inhuman with a power set to explain the unexplainable so she gets the destroyer of worlds tag. We have already seen two Inhuman royals with similar skills.

 I guess Enoch gave Fitz the hibernation treatment because the monolith is not precise enough. General Hale can't be just a MCU USAF General. Will they go back to the Hydra well or some alien agent. Time will tell.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Raja

[blueray]

10 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Also Hunter's little line about him and Bobbi nearly getting married again, "until the ninjas showed up", totally deserves a stand alone episode!

I agree. I would to see that.

It was great seeing Hunter again, and the way the left it, he easily could be brought back. Which I hope they do. I loved seeing him and Fitz together. Though Poor Fitz had to spend 6 months in prison first. I liked Enoch, and we'll probably see him again as he is going help Fitz.  I also had to look up to remember who Robin was. It's nice that the show tied back to an earlier episode. Though it showed how much the show really has changed since season 3. 

[sjohnson]

When the episode was over, I realized that I'd been waiting for Fitz. As usual, this show manages to disappoint. 

First, this dude who shows up is the one who for me epitomizes so much of what's wrong with this show, it's appalling he's deliberately paired with Fitz, who is---or was---the heart of goodness, insofar as this show could tolerate it. Hunter's mild satisfaction at Rusty's death is simultaneously appalling and a perfect example of what almost all the characters on this show are. The indifference of an audience to the bloodless, instantaneous deaths of nameless bystanders is one thing. But Hunter was supposed to know Rusty. Even for the low empathy viewer, this is too much, I think. One effect of this bloody mindedness for me is, it makes it hard to appreciate would be zaniness like "Release the ferrets!" The mood swings are painful. 

Second I think, one of the reasons Agents of Hydra worked, unlike most of the show, was that the casual murderousness of the larger part of the leads, was very much an "ends justify the means" ethos. So SHIELD=HYDRA carried an immediate conviction that lent gravity to all the proceedings. Fitz' love for his father, and the subsequent loyalty to his teachings, and his love for Aida, and his steadfast determination to serve those he loves, noble aspects of his character were precisely the virtues that turned him into the Doctor. Most of the characters do what they know to be wrong, starting with the whole covert ops criminality, because, well, you do what you have to do. There's our side, our friends, and that's all there is to it. But when a Ward or Leopold FItz of the Framework have a different set of friends, and they do the same, except by what they've been taught they're not even doing the wrong thing, they are EEEEEEVIL. The same devotion that led Fitz to hold a gun to Enoch's head was exactly the same devotion that led Leopold Fitz to kill the Patriot, except for the minor detail of being to different people. (Sorry, no, occasional consequence free angst a la Simmons is just a suffering hero/martyrdom moment.) 

Third, I think that when the show insists on having Hunter approve this pointless meanness, the show is recommitting to "the ends justify the means," while ignoring the question of how you choose the means. As for this story line, clearly the implication is that the Seer is trying to save her life by changing the future, which implies that Daisy is the destroyer of worlds. And this further implies the complete indifference of all the rest to the destruction of the world and the annihilation of the vast majority of humanity, because Daisy is their personal friend, is depravity of an astounding order. Unfortunately, it is altogether too typical of this show. Dramatically speaking, the Daisy problem should be front and center for all decent human beings, but the show is going out of its way to paint the only character who seems to have noticed as shady (but still in the end committed to the Right People.) 

Incidentally, Iain de Castecker, being a decent actor playing a lower caste male allowed his character to show signs of need. I think that's why Fitz' embrace of Hunter showed so much more emotion than most other relationships. For better or for worse, loving someone means needing them. But, if your character is too cool to need people, this cools the relationship too. Real emotion is so rare on this show, one wouldn't have been surprised if Fitz/Hunter had continued with a passionate kiss. It accidentally gave the Star Wars quotes dramatic irony. 

[snowwhyte]

So the government is holding Fitz without trial but felt they couldn't turn away his lawyer when he shows up? Call me cynical but I think its more likely that they'd deny having him and then move him to another secret base. 

[blueray]

40 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

So the government is holding Fitz without trial but felt they couldn't turn away his lawyer when he shows up? Call me cynical but I think its more likely that they'd deny having him and then move him to another secret base. 

I was confused by this too. I suppose if he got a trial, would he have been sent back to Scotland?

[Lobsel Vith]

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

First, this dude who shows up is the one who for me epitomizes so much of what's wrong with this show, it's appalling he's deliberately paired with Fitz, who is---or was---the heart of goodness, insofar as this show could tolerate it. Hunter's mild satisfaction at Rusty's death is simultaneously appalling and a perfect example of what almost all the characters on this show are. The indifference of an audience to the bloodless, instantaneous deaths of nameless bystanders is one thing. But Hunter was supposed to know Rusty. Even for the low empathy viewer, this is too much, I think. One effect of this bloody mindedness for me is, it makes it hard to appreciate would be zaniness like "Release the ferrets!" The mood swings are painful.

I think they may have been going for a 'gallows humor' type of situation with Hunter's response, but I can understand wanting to see Hunter react in a different way to the demise of someone he's spent so much time with.

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

Second I think, one of the reasons Agents of Hydra worked, unlike most of the show, was that the casual murderousness of the larger part of the leads, was very much an "ends justify the means" ethos. So SHIELD=HYDRA carried an immediate conviction that lent gravity to all the proceedings. Fitz' love for his father, and the subsequent loyalty to his teachings, and his love for Aida, and his steadfast determination to serve those he loves, noble aspects of his character were precisely the virtues that turned him into the Doctor. Most of the characters do what they know to be wrong, starting with the whole covert ops criminality, because, well, you do what you have to do. There's our side, our friends, and that's all there is to it. But when a Ward or Leopold FItz of the Framework have a different set of friends, and they do the same, except by what they've been taught they're not even doing the wrong thing, they are EEEEEEVIL. The same devotion that led Fitz to hold a gun to Enoch's head was exactly the same devotion that led Leopold Fitz to kill the Patriot, except for the minor detail of being to different people. (Sorry, no, occasional consequence free angst a la Simmons is just a suffering hero/martyrdom moment.) 

I don't think Ward is the same as Fitz. Helping Hydra with a genocidal plot, helping Garrett enslave Mike Peterson, threatening to rape Daisy - these aren't the same as S.H.I.E.L.D. doing morally ambiguous things in the name of a greater good. There's a villainy to Ward's actions that don't compare to the more questionable actions committed by S.H.I.E.L.D. in the name of a greater altruistic goal. As for Fitz, I still question the point of him being Hydra in the Framework; Daisy already forgave him for her torture, Simmons isn't angry with him for shooting her, and his implied medical role as The Doctor is odd since that would've made more sense for Simmons rather than a technical expert like Fitz. Aside from making him a badass (which didn't require him being Hydra) and giving him an edge (which, again, didn't require him being Hydra) I don't see the point. We could also see him angst for a number of other reasons.

Iain de Castecker is a great actor and did a good job, but his role as the Doctor didn't necessarily make the most sense from an in-story perspective, and having the characters instantly forgive him also makes him crossing those lines rather pointless (not that I'm saying we needed to see more angst between Fitz and Simmons - we really don't - but I don't think it was necessary for him to be Hydra when all Ophelia was aiming for was for him to construct a machine to make her human).

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

Third, I think that when the show insists on having Hunter approve this pointless meanness, the show is recommitting to "the ends justify the means," while ignoring the question of how you choose the means. As for this story line, clearly the implication is that the Seer is trying to save her life by changing the future, which implies that Daisy is the destroyer of worlds. And this further implies the complete indifference of all the rest to the destruction of the world and the annihilation of the vast majority of humanity, because Daisy is their personal friend, is depravity of an astounding order. Unfortunately, it is altogether too typical of this show. Dramatically speaking, the Daisy problem should be front and center for all decent human beings, but the show is going out of its way to paint the only character who seems to have noticed as shady (but still in the end committed to the Right People.) 

I don't think the implication is that Daisy is the 'Destroyer of Worlds'. I think the purpose of sending the team forth was to put them in a 'Macbeth' type of situation, where you set up a prophecy that they're going to do something (in this case, save the remnants of humanity from their Kree overlords) and then put them in a position to do precisely that (fulfilling a 'prophecy' by acting out what you're saying they're going to do). I don't think Daisy destroyed the world (especially as the team was plucked from the timestream).

As for indifference, I suspect we might see indifference when Deke is absolved of selling a person into slavery, giving us Reverse Ward, which is a bigger issue for me than people not taking Deke or the Kree at their word about Daisy's alleged involvement in the destruction of the world when there's nothing but their word to back up such a claim.

[Teitr Styrr]

That was just about a perfect hour of television for me. So glad to have Fitz back. Hunter too. Although I do like the new show Palicki is on, I wish she could come back too. She was a perfect fit for Bobbi. Maybe she can do a guest appearance. 

[tessaray]

It was great to have Fitz back, and teamed up with Hunter made it even sweeter. 

It's weird - I'm so used to various plot devices for time travel that the idea of taking the long way surprised me.  Loved the SW refs - I mean how could anyone going to be frozen in a capsule resist?  

[paigow]

Fitz should have been blind when he awoke... 

[SnoGirl]

49 minutes ago, paigow said:

Fitz should have been blind when he awoke... 

I would have died of laughter if they had done that. Gemma is currently deaf, so does that count??

[ramble]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:10 PM, MisterGlass said:

I was having a Fringe flashback there with September Enoch, but he seems genuinely willing to help.

I’ve been doing a Fringe rewatch and for a moment I thought I had somehow jumped shows. Enoch seemed so much like an Observer it threw me off. 

I‘ll add my yea! to the chorus. I throughly enjoyed this episode. The Fitz and Hunter interaction was so much fun, and Fitz’s reactions felt spot on. I can’t wait to see what’s next. 

[paigow]

It would be very convenient if Fitz dies in the future and the timeline resets to him recovering from his Ward induced brain damage....no more Framework angst

[Quark]

Really great episode. Loved having Fitz and Hunter back. Hope to see more of Hunter in the future (and I don't see why not given that the actor isn't doing much).

I don't remember the Seer and her Mum being on the show, but when they mentioned that their Dad used to see the future before he died, I remembered him.

Can't wait to see how Fitz gets everyone out of there situation. I'm convinced that Deke (or other future characters introduced) is someone's relative, and however the team managed to get back to the present, they will accidentally (or on purpose) bring someone back to the present that should be in the future (if that makes sense).

[Loandbehold]

15 hours ago, Quark said:

I don't remember the Seer and her Mum being on the show, but when they mentioned that their Dad used to see the future before he died, I remembered him.

For me, it was when I saw the robin wood carving. 

[tennisgurl]

I hope my God, I missed Hunter and Fitz so much. My new favorite episode of the season, absolutely. 

[Leia1979]

I'm so glad Fitz is back. I didn't recognize Hunter at first, though, so I kept wondering it seemed like I was supposed to know random British lawyer.

My husband and I started laughing hysterically when he pointed out Fitz's cryo-pod was a Yakima car-top box just like ours!

[moonshine71]

12 hours ago, Leia1979 said:

 

My husband and I started laughing hysterically when he pointed out Fitz's cryo-pod was a Yakima car-top box just like ours!

Always good for a laugh to see very mundane items being repurposed as something exotic on a show.  I cracked up when I was watching Battlestar Gallactica and they were towing fighter ships around the hanger with cherry pickers exactly like the ones found in our warehouse at work. 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

What I didn't understand is why Enoch didn't bother to tell the gang where they were going and why.  If they are being sent to the future to prevent an extinction level event, why not tell them that?  Why is it okay for Fitz to get all the facts and then go to the future if the rest of them couldn't know going in?  I understand it was done for dramatic purposes but I wish they would have offered an explanation for why they couldn't know.  Enoch was willing to help Fitz so why not help the others?

[CaptainTightpants]

Just now, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

What I didn't understand is why Enoch didn't bother to tell the gang where they were going and why.  If they are being sent to the future to prevent an extinction level event, why not tell them that?  Why is it okay for Fitz to get all the facts and then go to the future if the rest of them couldn't know going in?  I understand it was done for dramatic purposes but I wish they would have offered an explanation for why they couldn't know.  Enoch was willing to help Fitz so why not help the others?

Any why not let them pack some clean underpants and a case of granola bars?! That part made no sense to me either. 

[7-Zark-7]

Maybe Enoch was following the alien policy of non interference by not telling the agents where and why they were being sent. Enoch filled Fitz in with information when Fitz was bound by time and couldn’t do anything about it. It only later became prophecy.