S01.E13: Memento Mori

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

As the authorities close in, an exhausted but unbroken Frank vows to put an end to the war that has consumed his life.

[Pogojoco]

This was also meant for ep 1 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Pogojoco
the threads are weird

[Morrigan2575]

Crap this was for episode 1 not 13

Edited November 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[JustaPerson]

Poor Curtis! He didn't ask to be a part of this yet he keeps getting hurt!

Ben Barnes's pretty pretty face!

That shot of Frank sitting on the carousel with Dinah's head in his lap and those 2 kids just sitting next them, he looked like a dad with his little bloody family. 

Intense finale.

Edited November 20, 2017 by JustaPerson

[SnoGirl]

3 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

Poor Curtis! He didn't ask to be a part of this yet he keeps getting hurt!

Ben Barnes's pretty pretty face!

That shot of Frank sitting on the carousel with Dinah's head in his lap and those 2 kids just sitting next them, he looked like a dad with his little bloody family. 

Intense finale.

I kinda thought that shot on the carousel was intentional. Frank couldnt save his family the first time but was able to save everyone this time around. Im actually really happy it wasnt Micro’s family who was put in Frank’s family’s position. 

I thought there was some interesting parrallel’s to Daredevil. Quirky friend, love interest, and medical friend. Quirky friend fights to save Frank in the end. They both get the snot kicked out of them more than once. The only difference was holy violence Batman (and Frank just killing everyone)! I get why there was articles about how violent this series was. I had to mute the tv and look away. I dont even know how Frank could even move after that last beating. 

Did this series happen after Defenders? I’m still depressed 

Spoiler

Frank didnt save Matt at the end of Defenders. I’m still salty Frank appeared in a preview but was a no-show in the series. He should have saved him at the end.

Now I want to see Frank with the rest of the Defenders. Or just sit with Jessica Jones and drink a beer.

[JustaPerson]

26 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

I kinda thought that shot on the carousel was intentional. Frank couldnt save his family the first time but was able to save everyone this time around. Im actually really happy it wasnt Micro’s family who was put in Frank’s family’s position. 

The thought did cross my mind, but I wasn't sure. You're probably right about that, @SnoGirl

[dwmarch]

There were lots of scenes with Russo and broken glass, so I wasn't sure how they were going to un-pretty him. In Punisher: War Zone he falls into a glass-crushing machine and Frank assumes he's dead. So I thought maybe there would be something similar with the merry-go-round and Russo's face would get chewed up by the gears or something. But nope, not this show. In this show, Frank cracks Russo's head against the mirror repeatedly (causing brain damage, something these characters never seem to suffer from considering how many knocks to the dome they take over the course of a season) and then uses the broken mirror as a cheese grater while using Russo as the cheese. Now that's why he's called the Punisher!

[moonshine71]

On 11/19/2017 at 9:43 PM, SnoGirl said:

 

Did this series happen after Defenders? I’m still depressed 

  Hide contents

Frank didnt save Matt at the end of Defenders. I’m still salty Frank appeared in a preview but was a no-show in the series. He should have saved him at the end.

Now I want to see Frank with the rest of the Defenders. Or just sit with Jessica Jones and drink a beer.

Had to be post Defenders. There is no way Matt would stand on the sidelines after Karen very publicly put herself in Lewis's crosshairs the way she did. Even if they were on the outs, he would have been shadowing her everywhere she went, and right next to Frank when it all went down.

[fallgold]

I really enjoyed this series, I'd put it up there with Daredevil S1 as one of my favorites. Jon Bernthal is incredible in this role. If it were anyone but him, I don't know if I would care about Frank as much as I do. I loved Micro, especially Micro and Frank's reluctant partnership. I was so drawn into the story, compared to the Defenders. I'm so sick of the Hand, it's refreshing to have this series be about something else.

I'm not sure where the show could go in a second season, or if we'll even get one, but I would love to see it.

[moonshine71]

On 11/22/2017 at 11:28 PM, fallgold said:

 

I'm not sure where the show could go in a second season, or if we'll even get one, but I would love to see it.

I'm curious about that, too. This is very different from comics Punisher in that Frank's been given a new identity and a clean slate to build a normal life, he's going to group talking about the challenge of adjusting to that life now, returning to his vigilantism would feel like a major regression of the character.

On that note, even with the new identity he's hanging around New York, how doesn't EVERYONE recognize him? His face has been splashed all over the media, first with his trial and now with the events of this series. I'm perplexed at how Micro's wife didn't recognize him after his shave and haircut.

[Morrigan2575]

Me watching this episode.

After Billy Kills the FBI/HSA: Man, I'm going to miss Billy, he is an evil bastard and a great villain. I kind of hope they don't kill him and keep him around as a continuing villain.

After Curtis wakes up and sees Billy: Oh fuck you Billy! You better not hurt Curtis! I hope you die, die, die!

During final fight scene: Man Frank is really messing up the pretty! Wait, he's not killing Billy but leaving him scarred? Huh, I wonder if Billy is a Comics Villain? Runs to check Google.?

I have to say that final fight sequence was brutal and very well done. Loved the symbolism of Frank saving 'his family' this time. I'm glad it wasn't Micro's family it would have been too stressful (for me).

I was shocked that Madoni went out that quickly and, really thought she was dead when I saw all the blood and Frank craddling her head. I'm glad she survived, I like her and Frank needs a frenimy in Law Enforcement. I'm guessing Micro is out for S2 since he got his HEA but, well see Curtis, Madoni, Billy and (hopefully) Karen.

[Chaos Theory]

Well if we are talking about a second season it could strickly be about Russo who is actually a comic book villain called Jigsaw.   

I really liked the dynamics between the Micro and Frank and I liked Micro's family.  Also really liked Madoni.    This may not be my favorite of the Marvel series but I did find it entertaining.  I liked Jessica Jones and Season 1 of Daredevil better.  However This was fun to watch.  

[arjumand]

So, the binging has concluded! I thought I was going to save this for the holidays, but then I watched the first episode and was lost, heh.

I knew this was going to be super violent, so wasn't really shocked by that, though there were a couple of scenes where I had to look away. I'm glad that someone thanked Frank at the end, and I'm super glad he took down Billy. I kind of guessed that Billy was a comics villain when he kept not dying, so I wasn't expecting him to die at the end. 

I didn't hate Iron Fist as much as others did, and I enjoyed watching the Defenders, but the Punisher became my favourite character after Daredevil 2 (the season in which I was bored by Daredevil, annoyed by Foggy and Karen, and super-bored by Electra), and now I'm super conflicted: sure it's great that Frank got closure and some kind of peace, and he seems to be headed towards a healthier place . . . but I love the Punisher, dammit! 

This was pretty good - I can't deny that there were places where I tuned out, and there could have been more Frank + skull-vest and less Dinah/Billy sex-lympics, but I still enjoyed it. I too wonder where they could go in a second season, but I want it!

[Anela]

On November 19, 2017 at 9:43 PM, SnoGirl said:

I kinda thought that shot on the carousel was intentional. Frank couldnt save his family the first time but was able to save everyone this time around. Im actually really happy it wasnt Micro’s family who was put in Frank’s family’s position. 

I thought there was some interesting parrallel’s to Daredevil. Quirky friend, love interest, and medical friend. Quirky friend fights to save Frank in the end. They both get the snot kicked out of them more than once. The only difference was holy violence Batman (and Frank just killing everyone)! I get why there was articles about how violent this series was. I had to mute the tv and look away. I dont even know how Frank could even move after that last beating. 

Did this series happen after Defenders? I’m still depressed 

  Hide contents

Frank didnt save Matt at the end of Defenders. I’m still salty Frank appeared in a preview but was a no-show in the series. He should have saved him at the end.

Now I want to see Frank with the rest of the Defenders. Or just sit with Jessica Jones and drink a beer.

I kept picturing him with Jessica, too. 

[MisterGlass]

This series had way more depth than I expected going into it, and that was a pleasant surprise.  I enjoyed spending time with the side characters and in seeing what they brought out of Frank.  If it were just Frank and his suicidal pursuit of the bad guys it wouldn't have been nearly as good.  He was so done with life at the start of it.  At the end he's in a better position, and I agree it's hard to see where he goes from here.  A lot of what he's done up to this point has been possible because he didn't care if he lived or died.

There were some flaws.  I liked Madani at the start, but she was tricked too often.  She started to feel less competent, and that's not a good direction.  There were a few too many flashbacks and hallucinations.  It held up better than most of the Marvel series in the home stretch, though there were some repeated moments at the end.  On the whole, I think it was good, and intense, and subverted some expectations.

Frank and Jessica could definitely drink together.  Silently.  Watching the crowd.  Judging the hipsters.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Russo got fucked up!  I figured he wasn't going to die and was likely going to be set-up a potential threat in any future seasons, but Frank made damn sure that he felt every moment of it.  Of course, he did kidnap and cut two poor kids just for the hell of it, so it's hard to really give him an ounce of sympathy.

Show had to be mean again and make me worry about poor Curtis as well.  Glad he pulled through and I hope he keeps popping back up.  The actor has really been enjoyable in the role.

David seems to have gone back to the family life, which is good for him.  Of course, if he ends up sticking around, the question is how long will it last?

Kind of bummed Dinah ended up not factoring much in this episode.  Although she did help free Frank off-screen, I guess.

Overall, this series didn't go the way I expected it would, which is both good and bad.  I did think it started out kind of slow and they did have a few too many plots to juggle and some didn't get their full due.  But I ended up really enjoying the supporting cast and while I don't think Frank is my favorite of the Netflix leads (that's probably still Jessica), I do think Jon Bernthal is the best actor of the group (even though I really liked Krysten Ritter and Charlie Cox), and turned in a hell of a performance.  One of the best casting decisions for any comic book character.  Really hope he starts getting to interact with the rest of the characters in future show (I can already picture his annoyed looks towards Danny.)

[Taryn74]

Hubby and I finished the series last night.  While it will never replace my adoration for the Frank Castle storyline in S2 Daredevil, I thought the series was fairly well done, if a lot a bit gory.  I did a lot of looking off to the side while people got killed and/or beaten to a bloody pulp.  The sex scenes were way overdone, too.  Makes me sad because my teenage son loves Punisher but I've got to make him wait another year or two before he can watch this series.  (The one scene I did enjoy was David and Sarah sneaking off to the bathroom of their "safehouse" hotel room.  It was so awkward and hilarious and sweet and sexy, all at the same time.  I think anybody who's ever had kids awake in the house while they try to sneak a few moments alone can totally relate.)

I got tired of the flashbacks/hallucinations of Frank's wife, mostly because the character and actor both did nothing for me, but I did enjoy the one flashback of them dancing at their wedding.  It's so odd to see Frank completely relaxed and happy, and it makes me so sad for him to see what might have been.

I think David and Frank may have ended up being my favorite part of this.  It was nice to see Frank come to realize he really did need David as much as David needed him, and not just as somebody to watch his six.  David's unique role in all of this was just as important as Frank's, and I like that they never turned him into some sort of weapon-loaded second to Frank.

Frank and Karen - wowzas.  They just sizzle, even in scenes where they're on the phone and not in the same room, their connection is electric.  I legit had tears in my eyes after Lewis blew himself up and Karen and Frank both were severely dazed but kept reaching out for the other to make sure they were okay.  I wonder if "Pete" will ever work through his issues enough for them to be together in a real sense?  I hope so.

 

On 11/27/2017 at 1:10 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Show had to be mean again and make me worry about poor Curtis as well.  Glad he pulled through and I hope he keeps popping back up.  The actor has really been enjoyable in the role.

Going after Curtis was a sure-fire way to raise my ire.  Lewis and Billy both, I could recognize them as "a bad guy" while still enjoying seeing where their story was taking them, but the moment they went after Curtis I was all OH HELL NO YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BETTER DIE A BLOODY DEATH AND SOON.  I don't know what it is about Curtis, but I love him fiercely.

[millennium]

On 11/19/2017 at 9:43 PM, SnoGirl said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Frank didnt save Matt at the end of Defenders. I’m still salty Frank appeared in a preview but was a no-show in the series. He should have saved him at the end.

Now I want to see Frank with the rest of the Defenders. Or just sit with Jessica Jones and drink a beer.

I hope they keep Frank Castle as far away from the Defenders as possible.   This series was a hundred times better than any of the Defenders' character series.   Part of what made this work was its independence from all that Hand supernatural bullshit (don't get me wrong, I love me some supernatural bullshit if it's good supernatural bullshit).  Also there were no labored attempts to thread the Punisher through the storylines of the other series.   Donna's appearance felt natural, and I liked that the writers didn't feel it necessary that she reference Daredevil.   Oh, and no Claire, thank goodness.

The Punisher made Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist look like amateur hour.   Bernthal's acting here was so superior to the Defenders actors that the latter simply don't seem qualified to be on the same set.   Castle's friendship with Micro was believable, something I never felt with Matt McCoy and Foggy Nelson or any of the other Defender characters and their "sidekicks."  Thank the Punisher writers and the actors for turning that unlikely relationship into one of the highlights of the series.

The intensity of some of the scenes was amazing.   Agent Orange's torture session won't soon be forgotten.   That actor seemed genuinely psycho.   The climactic scene where Frank grinds Billy Russo's face into the shattered mirror ... I've never seen anything quite like that.

Finally, I felt for Frank Castle.   Bernthal humanized a killing machine.   I never felt any connection to the Defenders characters, in particular Luke Cage and Danny Rand.   All they ever elicited in me was a strong desire to stop watching.

I almost don't want a second season of The Punisher, because topping this one will be nearly impossible, IMO.

Edited November 28, 2017 by millennium

[Morrigan2575]

12 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I thought the series was fairly well done, if a lot a bit gory

My friend asked me if the show was gory, I was on episode 9 at the time said, "not really, except for this one surgery scene but, I can never watch those".

A day later I DM'd her, oh BTW 10-12 were really gory, not sure about 13 haven't watched it yet.

Next day yeah 13 was gory.

I ended up watching a few scene towards the end of the series through my fingers/hand.

[Capricasix]

Yes, I’ll put this in my top three Netflix Marvel series, along with Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones. 

[peachmangosteen]

It's top 3 for me as well, with Jessica Jones and Daredevil season 2 (uo alert!) being the other 2.

My fave parts were anything with Karen. Frank and Karen are just so compelling together. And their chemistry is insane.

I went back and forth on David. Sometimes I loved him and sometimes he was annoying as hell. So, I guess I felt for him how Frank felt for him lol. I loved his family though and their relationship with Frank.

I loved Madani and Stein. It really got to me when Billy killed Stein. I was hoping Madani would get to be the one to fuck Billy up for that. I was disappointed in general by how little Madani did in the end.

ETA: Oh, I didn't care for any of the flashbacks because I found Frank's wife boring and the actress was actively terrible.

Edited December 3, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Taryn74]

I pretty much agree with everything you just said, @peachmangosteen.

[blueray]

Quote

I got tired of the flashbacks/hallucinations of Frank's wife, mostly because the character and actor both did nothing for me, but I did enjoy the one flashback of them dancing at their wedding.  It's so odd to see Frank completely relaxed and happy, and it makes me so sad for him to see what might have been.

I fast forward all their hallucinations. I was tired of it by the first episode. They didn't add anything to the show and took up screen time, not to mention was repetitive. I didn't need to see what frank was "thinking about" while being tortured. The only good one was the actual flashback of them at the park. However, at this point I struggled to see Rosso anything but evil. I was worried about Curtis and very glad he made it out alive. I enjoyed Micro's family getting a happy ending (at least for now). And that Frank got let off with official help.

I will say, opinion of one but I found the first half of the season boring. I rarely felt like I needed to watch the next one, and therefore didn't binge this. That being said the show did really pick up toward the end and it didn't suffer the rushed feeling of some of the other netflix marvel shows. I think they did a good job with casting and each character had a purpose. Overall, I'd rank this show pretty much in the middle. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as Daredevil.

Edited December 3, 2017 by blueray

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

However, at this point I struggled to see Rosso anything but evil. 

I thought at first they might be able to make him something besides completely evil and psychopathic, but yea that went out the window by the last few eps.

Edited December 3, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ohjoy]

On 11/26/2017 at 6:17 PM, MisterGlass said:

Frank and Jessica could definitely drink together.  Silently.  Watching the crowd.  Judging the hipsters.

That's exactly how I pictured it.

 

On 11/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 .... while I don't think Frank is my favorite of the Netflix leads (that's probably still Jessica), I do think Jon Bernthal is the best actor of the group (even though I really liked Krysten Ritter and Charlie Cox), and turned in a hell of a performance.  One of the best casting decisions for any comic book character.

ITA

[Kel Varnsen]

On 01/12/2017 at 3:56 PM, Capricasix said:

Yes, I’ll put this in my top three Netflix Marvel series, along with Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones. 

I also can't believe how good this was considering how slow it started. With how strong it finished making it start so slow even had a point. I honestly and surprised that they pulled it off with how weak Luke Cage and Iron Fist were and how much of a letdown The Defenders was.

As for season 2 maybe they should completely flip it. Make it a relationship type of show with married couple David and Sarah and their single friends who sometimes date Pete and Karen. And they all hang out in NYC together. Kind of like How I Met Your Mother, except instead to annoying Ted, you have murderous psycho Pete.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Kel Varnsen

[Morrigan2575]

I can't tell if I was Sarah/David (or really just David) in S2 or want them to get out of the whole situation and live in peace/happiness as a normal family.

I hate to lose that Frank/David relationship but, I spent all season thinking David was going to die, I don't want him in danger again ?

[Kel Varnsen]

On thing i did like in the end (can't remember  if it was episode 12 or 13) was Frank showing some remorse for what happened in Afghanistan and how he was basically a hit man. Although i would have liked some information on Frank at the time and why he never questioned the fact that executing prisoners is super illegal.

[Morrigan2575]

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

On thing i did like in the end (can't remember  if it was episode 12 or 13) was Frank showing some remorse for what happened in Afghanistan and how he was basically a hit man. Although i would have liked some information on Frank at the time and why he never questioned the fact that executing prisoners is super illegal.

I feel like a total idiot because I never realized it was Frank that pulled the trigger.  

I think it was episode 12 when Madani was recording the confession, she asked if Billy pulled the trigger.  I liked his acknowledgment of what he did I think it was a "that's on me". I do wish we could have gotten some insight during the few war flashbacks into what Frank was thinking/feeling. We got that from Gunner and (falsely?) from Billy but, nothing from Frank at that time.

[david gideon]

I almost quit after the first 4 eps but 5 it started to click and held me to the end. Sex and violence a bit much, and it didn’t need to be 13 episodes, but I’m in for season 2 which has been announced.

[Ottis]

I liked the set up for The Punisher. I didn’t like what they did with Frank.

I don’t understand what Frank was doing. We were told those who killed his family were dead. But he asked Russo if he knew that Frank's family would be killed. Russo did but refused to participate. So are those who killed his family still alive? Who killed his family? And why kill them and not Frank?

Meanwhile, Micro brought Kandahar into the open and Orange was... what, killing those who were involved? Curtis should have been a pretty easy target, but that didn’t happen. And Gunner was found thanks to Frank. So was Orange erasing his tracks or not? And what was Frank's goal here ... Curtis was alive, Gunner was alive, Russo was alive... what evidence did Frank have that Orange was killing the team?

Frank didn’t seem to have any tactician skill, or any planning abilities. He had experience in warfare, and an inhuman ability to take punishment. That seems ... disappointing for a super hero. 

He also seemed unstable and prone to emotion. Not assets. 

So in the end, there were elements of a good story, but they didn’t fit together for me. It was very haphazard and brutal and that’s about it. It was better in DD, as an examination of how those two had different approaches to making the world a better place. In Punisher, it wasn't clear to me what Frank's agenda was given the evidence he (and we) had. So when he killed someone, got revenge I guess?, it was tough to have much catharsis. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ottis

[StarBrand]

I liked it. I didn't think at first I would be into an entire series of just Frank Castle-but his portrayal in DaredeviI convinced me to give t his a look and stick with it. really don't think that there's an actor that can portray Frank Castle better than who they got to play him here (name escapes me at the moment). It's a hard balancing act to portray such a man,  a violent man, and yet make him still human.

Man I have seen some violent gross-out scenes (especially in this series), but that mirror scene takes the cake. And, like a lot of you, I almost don't want to see another season-it's hard to see how this could get topped.

The best part was actually, the ending. Here's Frank Castle, having gotten his vengence, and yet, looking as uncertain as he ever has-the fact that there's nothing left to fight against scares him to death. Perfect.

[Morrigan2575]

22 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

The best part was actually, the ending. Here's Frank Castle, having gotten his vengence, and yet, looking as uncertain as he ever has-the fact that there's nothing left to fight against scares him to death. Perfect.

Excellent observation I didn't catch that at first.

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Excellent observation I didn't catch that at first.

Frank actually says he’s scared at the end, doesn’t he? I just wish it was clear what he had accomplished. Of course, now he can pursue his own war against injustice, so he still has something to fight. I hope he is smarter going about it than what we saw this season. 

[marcee]

On 12/13/2017 at 9:04 AM, Ottis said:

I don’t understand what Frank was doing. We were told those who killed his family were dead. But he asked Russo if he knew that Frank's family would be killed. Russo did but refused to participate. So are those who killed his family still alive? Who killed his family? And why kill them and not Frank.

Frank believed he killed those involved with the death of his family. It happened in Daredevil Season 2. In that series, we were led to believe that it was the 3 drug cartels that had a shootout at the park and his family was caught in the crossfire. Castle destroyed those gangs but ultimately found out that Schoonover was involved too - and killed him. And right around then, we find out there was more to it...

In this series, we find out that Frank was actually the target... Agent Orange and the rest of the Khandahar gang was trying to clean up their mess. Russo knew about the hit, but didn't warn his buddy... cost of doing business, as far as he was concerned. Ultimately, "who killed his family" rests on Rawlins, Schoonover and Wolf. They engineered the cartel mess to get Frank killed. They're all dead now. Yay?

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, marcee said:

Frank believed he killed those involved with the death of his family. It happened in Daredevil Season 2. In that series, we were led to believe that it was the 3 drug cartels that had a shootout at the park and his family was caught in the crossfire. Castle destroyed those gangs but ultimately found out that Schoonover was involved too - and killed him. And right around then, we find out there was more to it...

In this series, we find out that Frank was actually the target... Agent Orange and the rest of the Khandahar gang was trying to clean up their mess. Russo knew about the hit, but didn't warn his buddy... cost of doing business, as far as he was concerned. Ultimately, "who killed his family" rests on Rawlins, Schoonover and Wolf. They engineered the cartel mess to get Frank killed. They're all dead now. Yay?

Thank you for this response! This is what I thought the show was trying to say, and it just made me ask more questions so I wasn't sure I understood it correctly. So if this is the explanation:

• Why have drug gangs take out Frank's family vs. only Frank? Seems like they are expecting a lot from drug gangs. Was it personal somehow? Because that's a convoluted solution to a simple problem, which they seemed to have addressed more intelligently with Gunner sand how they went after him.
• If they were cleaning up the mess, why was Curtis, arguably the easiest target, still alive? Gunner was, too, until Frank went there (don't know if Frank led them there, or they were headed there anyway).
• Why did Frank believe others who made the decision to kill his family were alive? As Punisher starts, someone says they are dead. And as far as Frank knows, they are. At what moment did he become aware that there were others tied to his family's death? He asks Russo about it, but that is far into the season.
• Also, all the family flashbacks, showing his wife killed in their bedroom ... was that how they were actually killed? It seemed like the carousel had a tie to their deaths, but not sure what it was. Were the flashbacks artistic license, and their deaths happened at the carousel?

FWIW, they made Frank too unhinged and emotional, and not enough angry and vengeful. His actions were mostly reactive. He was more like The Pinball than The Punisher. I think if they had addressed some of this better, I could have really gotten into the series!

[marcee]

The family was all killed at the park / merry go round. The bedroom scenes were just artistic license. There was more to the gang cartel thing than just killing Frank (which was the intention; his family was just caught in the crossfire). There really was heroin/drug dealing going on... Rawlins *claimed* it was to fund America-helping stuff, but we all know *nudge nudge wink wink* that he and his cronies were lining their pockets. At the end of Daredevil, when Frank has Schoonover - before he executes him - Schoonover basically says, "You know this isn't over right? You know this isn't about drugs, right? Remember Khandahar." And that's when Frank begins to realize there was more to it and that his family's blood is on more hands than Schoonover's. At least, that's how I understood it. Perhaps a rewatch of both series is in order?

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

If they were cleaning up the mess, why was Curtis, arguably the easiest target, still alive? Gunner was, too, until Frank went there (don't know if Frank led them there, or they were headed there anyway).

I don't believe Curtis was part of the Khandahar crew. Frank knew him from a different time when he was deployed.

[johntfs]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:31 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

As for season 2 maybe they should completely flip it. Make it a relationship type of show with married couple David and Sarah and their single friends who sometimes date Pete and Karen. And they all hang out in NYC together. Kind of like How I Met Your Mother, except instead to annoying Ted, you have murderous psycho Pete.

And Matt Murdoch can be Barney Stinson.  And the five of them fight crime and argue about killing the fuck out of people.

[AKA...CJ86]

My take away... oh yeah, Madani's Father was a doctor (don't recall specifics field) after he appeared...

You know, now I can't wait for a Season 2, I'm just waiting for that Russo removing the gauze/bandages reveal...

and now I need to re-binge-watch DD Season 2 for all the references... because I'm blanking on the timeline of events a bit regarding Frank's family, etc (thanks for all the info marcee)

Edited January 19, 2018 by CyberJawa1986

[Vella]

It's weird what things can totally take whatever inclination you might have to watch the 2nd season just completely out of you.  Watching Madani get completely and totally undermined and cut down for nothing at the carousel was it for me.  She plays ZERO role in what happens. She doesn't get to even say a word. Doesn't get to rescue the kids, doesn't get to distract Russo or take a shot at him for Sam. Absolutely nothing. She gets to show up, stand there and basically wait for Russo to shoot her in the head.  That's some bullshit. What little power her character has in that scenario, the show just rips it away from her. Not really surprising that it happened to the female lead, but it still pissed me off.

[johntfs]

11 hours ago, Vella said:

What little power her character has in that scenario, the show just rips it away from her.

Granted that she didn't have power in that specific scenario, but she had plenty of power afterward.  She's the reason Frank gets a second chance at "civilian" life.

[festivus]

I realized I never posted here after I finished the show. Let's just say that all my speculation on what would happen was totally wrong, as it usually is. ;) I'm glad I was wrong about Micro dying, here's hoping now that he's home he'll cut that hair and shave (or at least trim) that horrid beard.

On 11/19/2017 at 5:14 PM, JustaPerson said:

That shot of Frank sitting on the carousel with Dinah's head in his lap and those 2 kids just sitting next them, he looked like a dad with his little bloody family. 

 

On 11/19/2017 at 8:43 PM, SnoGirl said:

I kinda thought that shot on the carousel was intentional. Frank couldnt save his family the first time but was able to save everyone this time around. Im actually really happy it wasnt Micro’s family who was put in Frank’s family’s position. 

That's why I love these boards. I didn't even catch that, I think I was just still so hyped up about the carousel shootout that I didn't even process that image. 

[jay741982]

On 12/9/2017 at 1:42 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

I can't tell if I was Sarah/David (or really just David) in S2 or want them to get out of the whole situation and live in peace/happiness as a normal family.

I hate to lose that Frank/David relationship but, I spent all season thinking David was going to die, I don't want him in danger again ?

I just read that Sarah is A variation of a female Sidekick of The Punisher in the comics so maybe what we get in Season 2 is Sarah and David being Frank's sidekicks/Partners

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I just read that Sarah is A variation of a female Sidekick of The Punisher in the comics so maybe what we get in Season 2 is Sarah and David being Frank's sidekicks/Partners

I want David to be somebody Frank goes to when he really needs something, but I really want Karen Page to kind of be his new partner/sidekick.

[rmontro]

The Punisher has never been one of my favorite characters, but I enjoyed this season well enough.  Jon Bernthal was perfectly cast for what they were trying to do.  I don't know where this season ranks among the Marvel Netflix series, I've enjoyed them all to some extent or other.

My only quibble is it seems a tiny bit unrealistic that Frank gets to walk away scot free by the government without legal implications, but I'll take it nonetheless.

On to Jessica Jones season 2!

[VCRTracking]

I want Madani to come back next season because I love the way Frank says her name.

Frank shredding Billy's face against the broken mirror. God it's been weeks and that's scream is still with me.

Edited March 27, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Catfi9ht]

Well, this last episode was quite the letdown after the roller coaster that was episode 12. So the penultimate fight between Frank and Billy was at the carousel. I totally understand why they chose it for the symbolism, but holy crap was that a mess to film. All the camera shots had to be super tight because of the cramped conditions. So tight that they couldn't even show both characters from head to toe. I wish they would have started at the carousel, moved off of it for some mobility, and then back in at the end to ruin Billy's face. 

Overall, though I really enjoyed this show. I'm not sure what order my top three is (DD S1, JJ S1, Punisher), but they're pretty darn close. Here's my rundown, of the good and the bad.

Good

Frank - Everything John Bernthal does as the Punisher is amazing. Nothing bad from him that I can recall.

Karen - I love the way these writers portrayed Karen. She was stern, tough, and almost a partner to Frank. In DD, all she did was yell and never really got her point across nearly as well as she did in this series. In both series, her motivation was the same (to save people she cared about from vigilantism), but she was written as a more compelling character in this show.

Billy - I had never seen this actor before so I fell for his good guy portrayal hook, line, and sinker. Boy was he good about turning on the charm and then turning into a slimy little shit on a dime.

David - I hated David at first and found him completely annoying, but as his relationship with Frank became closer, he became less annoying.

Great supporting cast - Lewis, Curtis, Marion, Sarah, David's daughter, and David's asshole son were great as well for varying reasons.

 

Bad

Madani - Wow was Madani written as a total narcissist at the beginning of the season. She even has a line to her mother about Sam's career. It's something like, "His career was going nowhere until I stepped in and gave him drive and focus." She was written as less of a narcissist toward the end of the season, but I think that's because she was more of the law enforcement plot device and they really didn't attempt to explore her character at all after her Sam died. I really hope she doesn't return for season two unless they change how the character is written and give her some humility.

Too Many Bills - I know Billy Russo existed in the Marvel Universe before the show, but did William Rawlins? If not, why on earth would they name both bad guys Bill? In episode 12 when Frank keeps using Bill with both Bills in the room, I kept thinking, "Which one is he talking to?"

Finally, I ran across this picture on IMDB when looking at the cast for Punisher. John Bernthal in Eastwick (2009). Look at how cute and cuddly he is!!

[Quark]

Much darker than the other Marvel shows (which I prefer), but still really good.

I pretty much liked all the main cast. Madani really grew on me from the start of the season. I hated her to start with. 

I was completely baffled by Russo, especially when he randomly revealed his true motives in that stairway. He went from a nice charming guy to a guy who did it all for the money, to a completely psychotic guy and it all happened tremendously quickly. What on earth was his motivation for bringing Frank to that merry-go-round other than to be a piece of shit? The actor was good, but I think he was let down by some weird writing.

[dwmarch]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:31 PM, Quark said:

What on earth was his motivation for bringing Frank to that merry-go-round other than to be a piece of shit? The actor was good, but I think he was let down by some weird writing.

Wasn't that the same park where Frank's family was killed? If so, that's why Russo did it, for psychological shock value. Russo knows that while he's been running a mostly bloodless business, the Punisher has been out there doing his thing day in and day out. He knows Frank is the better soldier so he wants any edge he can get to tip the scales in his favor.