S25.E09: Week 8: Trio Night

[sab85]

9 minutes ago, MMLEsq said:

Off topic, but you were explaining what a quarter is?

She's not American. :) I was trying to explain  how to do laundry and it became a "Who's on First" situation.

Edited November 7, 2017 by sab85

[crowceilidh]

I actually thought Drew danced up to Rashad considerably.  What an awkward song choice for such an amazingly dorky white person.  I thought their costumes and set were really inspired and didn't camo Drew too much.  But I locked my eyes on Drew and I think I saw improvement because he was dancing up to Rashad.

Lindsey's posture was horrific in parts, especially when compared to Kristi's lovely straight back.  I wondered if she was favouring her ribs which cannot have healed already.

[spanana]

Either Drew or Victoria should go home next, probably Victoria.  I think she was worse last night even if she had somewhat of an excuse.  The 8's on her jive trio were actually pretty generous.  I think they just didn't want to score any of the trios down past an 8 so as not to embarrass the returning celebs. 

I've seen some comments about Laurie's body and what Laurie is going through is normal for someone that was going through peak training during her adolescence and then stopped the rigorous training.  There are some rumors that she is going back to training in the near future, but it happens to most young female gymnasts when they stop their normal training regimen.  Aly Raisman got a lot of flack post her first Olympics for supposedly letting herself go when it was really just that she wasn't in hardcore training anymore and not on a strict diet.  I think the same is happening to Laurie, and it's more notable on her likely cause she's so short in the first place.

I'm also trying not to be harsh on the Vic trio since it sounds like adjustments were made to accommodate Victoria after her spasm.  But even if Victoria was able to dance it better, I still had a lot of issue with the whole thing.  I don't get the storyline.  I didn't understand why Laurie was wearing her winning costume while we watched footage of Laurie winning.  It seemed far too much about Laurie and not Victoria thematically.  Then Val threw in some typical Laurie gymnastics type moves (that back kick thing) that obviously Vic could never do anything remotely comparable, which I think would up doing nothing but showing at home viewers how much superior Laurie is as a dancer/mover.  I guess I could understand if they threw in some of that last minute to make-up for what Victoria couldn't do, but if it were planned it seemed a rather big miss.

Weirdly while I think the show kind of wants Victoria in the finals, I don't think the show cares that much about Victoria herself.  They want Val in the finals.  Even last night the official DWTS twitter tweeted out a picture of Victoria's trio where they tagged Victoria, and nobody even noticed Victoria wasn't in the picture.  They posted a photo from dress of Val, Laurie and Jenna doing the number.  While a number of posters have pointed it out, nobody has bothered to take down the Victoria-less picture.

Edited November 7, 2017 by spanana

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Someone needs to explain to me why the audience vote model hasn't been pushed out to sea on a flaming boat?  I have only voted a couple of times ever, on any contest show, and I would rather see the contestant judged by informed folk based on skill, not popularity.  It would have been a straight up tragedy if David Ross would have won last year, and I'm a huge Cubs/DR fan. 

Because one of the appeals of the show from the beginning, has been viewers feeling like they get to have some say in who wins. Of course that then essentially makes it a popularity contest but that makes it no different than American Idol, SYTYCD, The Voice, etc. The show already gets accusations of being rigged by people upset that their favorite didn't win, taking away viewer votes will all but guarantee viewers will think the show is rigged. It will also eliminate any suspense from most seasons. Like if the viewers didn't have a say this season, do you see the judges handing the win to anyone but Jordan? And while I personally have no issues with Jordan's winning, this board makes it clear that there are many viewers who feel he doesn't represent the true "spirit" of the show and will likely feel that it was unfair for him to be paired against celebrities with less experience when only the judges' scores mattered. 

Regarding the twitter whatever with Mark's possibly responding to Frankie's comment, I rewatched Frankie's segment and it was clear, in my opinion, that he was referring to Jordan and Lindsay as in that pair, when he said they were already practicing to the music after two days. Because when he says it, the camera clearly shows him watching Jordan and Lindsay in their rehearsal. It's after that he then references how much more experience Jordan and Lindsey (the contestant) have than him. I do not think his comment about the 2 day thing was in reference to Lindsey Stirling at all. Still, I didn't think his comments were shady or meant to be or anyone should have gotten upset about it (that is of course assuming Mark even was).  I thought Frankie's whole package was more about his struggles with his own confidence and believing that he can compete against those two. 

As for the dancing, to be honest, I was pretty underwhelmed. If last night's episode was the first show I'd watched, I think I'd be like others wondering why Jordan was even there competing against these people. His quality and standard of dancing was just so far above anything anyone else did last night. About the only dances I truly enjoyed was his two dances and Frankie's trio with Alfonso. Goodness knows I've never hidden my irritation with Alfonso but I will give him credit that I felt he made a concerted effort to never outdance and try to outshine Frankie. I guess I could maybe see a few of the issues the judges mentioned but for the most part I thought it was a really fun and energetic number. Lindsay's trio with Kristy just didn't wow me like it did others. It was okay but I didn't remember much about it once it was over and I didn't enjoy her Samba at all. Something about her movement was really off and jerky. 

[NeverLate]

3 hours ago, smiley13 said:

For a young girl, I was shocked to see Laurie's appearance change so drastically in a year.  

I just watched the trio dances again, and there's was horrible, sloppy  footwork as well.

Lindsay/Jordan/frankie all did so well with their trio round

[boyznkatz]

Can Drew and Victoria please go in a double elimination next week? I would have much rather had Terrell.

it's starting to look like Jordan is going to win this thing.

Maybe I heard wrong, but I never heard Frankie throw shade at Lindsey. Mark is just a whiner. Now I know why I never missed him when he was gone.

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, Coriandria said:

I wouldn't be too hard on Mark over his tweet.  I agree that the editing made it look like Frankie was talking about contestant Lindsey when he could have easily meant Lindsay.  But the package was seriously problematic.  Other boards have been on fire with hateful conspiracy theorists throwing serious venom at Lindsey claiming she was faking her injury for votes last week.  Having a package the very next week implying Lindsey was off dancing a routine flawlessly on day 2 really adds some oil to the "She's faking it!" fire.  Mark needed to nip that in the bud and quickly.  Trying to explain the nuance of reality show editing creating narratives that are often times untrue wouldn't have worked as most people would have likely given side eye to such a defense since if anything it only gives more credence to the Lindsey injury being untrue by the same logic.  So he simply replied to the package as it was presented defending Lindsey's integrity as a contestant.  At least that's how I read things.

Also I feel like at times both Lindsey and Jordan's dance experience is a bit overblown.  They have some experience sure but they weren't professional dancers going into this show.  The package heavily put Jordan and Lindsey in a bad light to prop up Frankie as this poor soul in an unfair competition which was rather eye-rolling to sit through.  I don't judge Frankie on this it was complete producers choice to create this narrative but the narrative still irks me a bit.

I definitely don't put the blame on Mark or Frankie for this. Mark has every right to nip this stuff about Lindsey. I think, with her and Jordan both being frontrunners since before the season even started, it puts an added pressure on them. They already know that people are looking at them differently than other contestants. And if they do poorly, that reflects worse than the average celebrity. I do think that Lindsey has been underscored, besides that one brilliant week with her sci fi piece. So, even though Mark/Lindsey are constantly hearing about how they're the frontrunners, they aren't as locked in to the finale anymore, not like Jordan is. I think Drew could easily slip into the finale ahead of Lindsey, which disappoints me greatly. 

But I also don't think Frankie's intentions were to shade Lindsey or Jordan. I think he's speaking the truth about Lindsey and Jordan being the best dancers in the competition, as many have been talking about. We've already seen from Frankie that he's comparing himself to the other dancers. He knows he's not that good and is really enjoying the experience regardless. I think it was more shade on himself, in that he feels behind, especially since he doesn't have that dance experience. And that is what Witney was telling him, that he's doing well for someone with no dance experience. I think, unlike Val and Maks' shade at Jordan and Lindsey, his reasons aren't about his jealousy that he's not a clear winner, not in the way that Jordan is and probably Lindsey as well. 

[suebee12]

OK, I just went back and watched the Victoria, Val and Laurie jive. It was no better the second time than the first time I watched it! One thing I thought I noticed last night and going back, I really did notice  "circle" tape on Victoria's knees. It was hard to notice but did prove that their was flesh toned supporting tape available. Oh well, it is done now and I just pretended they used black electrical tape for some strange reason!LOL!(and yes I know that tape is for support..in fact, I watched a whole discussion of how it works during the summer Olympics during the swimming events.) but the first thing I thought was why they had electrical tape on her back?

[LadyMustang65]

We thoroughly enjoyed last night's show.  We didn't think anyone did a bad job, although there were obviously some who were better than others.  We thought everyone did at least a nice job in their first dances.  I really didn't expect TO to do as well with the Charleston as he did, but it was fun.  We didn't have high expectations for Victoria with the AT, so even that was okay because  we didn't expect much to begin with.  Loved Frankie's waltz, Jordan's quickstep and Lindsey's samba.  Thought those were all excellent. 

I have mixed feelings on the trio dances.  Done well they can be really fantastic.  Done poorly they can be hard to sit through.  Last night the Terrell/Cheryl/Kelly rumba was hard to sit through.  I don't know how the returning celebs were decided upon, but I agree with the poster above who said that a male celeb would have been better so it could be the two men fighting over Cheryl.  What we saw was just uncomfortable, and while I liked Kelly Monaco in her season (but thought John O'Hurley should have won) and thought she was better in the All Star season, she wasn't good last night.  So the whole thing was just a big no for us.  Drew suffered in comparison to Rashad, whom I still absolutely adore.  The Victoria/Val/Laurie trio was another "unfortunate" one.  Still love Laurie, but that dance did Victoria no favors.  

Class of the show were:

the Frankie/Witney/Alfonso trio - I am also apparently in the minority in that I love Alfonso - which was just so enjoyable, and I thought Frankie did a great job.  

the Lindsey/Mark/Kristi trio - I just loved that choreography, and everyone danced it very well, we thought.

the Jordan/Lindsay/Corbin trio - that was just sublime.  We will be re-watching all of these trio dances as well as Jordan's and Lindsey's individual dances.

We go back and forth on who we want to win - I love Frankie and would have no problem with him winning, even though he's the weakest of those three, just because he's been so much fun to watch and at times has genuinely amazed us.  Lindsey has really grown on me since the beginning and would also make a deserving winner.  For us Jordan is absolutely the best dancer and we are also big fans of Lindsay, who has yet to win, so we'd also be thrilled with a win for her.  We really can make a case for any of those three being the winner, but we're probably rooting a bit more for either Jordan or Frankie.  

Just a general observation on "ringers" - as a general rule, we don't have a problem with ringers.   We watch So You Think You Can Dance, so we've seen over the years how often highly trained and skilled dancers struggle to learn ballroom and do it well and know that while dance experience is definitely a help, it's not a guarantee they'll be good on this show.   I loved Allison Holker on SYTYCD, but I hated her as a pro on DWTS because she really just was not that good at ballroom.  It would be almost impossible to have a completely level playing field.  And the thought of an entire season full of nothing but Master Ps is absolutely horrifying.  The one ringer we really objected to in our household was Riker.   Riker was not only a trained ballroom dancer, but he competed in ballroom for several years in his teens.  To me that should have disqualified him from being on the show.  I honestly believe it was only that he was paired with Allison that kept him from mopping the floor with the competition.  In the hands of a good pro, he should have been in a class by himself.  But other than Riker, we haven't minded ringers.  It's not like they have a history of having a lock on the win.  :)

[crowceilidh]

One of the things I noticed about Mark and Kristi and Lindsey's trio is that I could identify the dance.  You could ask me what type of dance they were doing and I would have said jazz.  Except for Lindsey's posture, I loved it.

[Palomar]

14 hours ago, friendperidot said:

I really liked Jordan, Corbin & Lindsey's Trio. That was great. There were some great passes. They weren't perfectly in sync, but it was nice coordination with them.

Why don't I remember Corbin's season?  I'm drawing a blank.

[LadyMustang65]

1 minute ago, Palomar said:

Why don't I remember Corbin's season?  I'm drawing a blank.

That was the year Amber Riley from Glee won with Derek Hough.  He was paired with Karina Smirnoff.  Bill Engvall and Jack Osbourne (third that season) were also on that season.

Edited November 7, 2017 by LadyMustang65
Added additional info on the season

[Palomar]

Just now, LadyMustang65 said:

That was the year Amber Riley from Glee won with Derek Hough.

OK thanks!  I must have semi-blanked out or lost interest that season.

[smiley13]

4 minutes ago, Palomar said:

OK thanks!  I must have semi-blanked out or lost interest that season.

It was easy to, the trophy was handed to Golden Boy and his less than capable partner.

[crossover]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

 Lindsay's trio with Kristy just didn't wow me like it did others. It was okay but I didn't remember much about it once it was over and I didn't enjoy her Samba at all. Something about her movement was really off and jerky. 

I just couldn't think of what I didn't like about Lindsey's samba.  I thought of jumpy instead of bouncy but maybe jerky is better.  It looked like she was trying too hard.  I was surprised the scores were so high? 

I have a feeling that Jordan is too good for this season.  Lindsey is his closest challenge.  I really don't see why people think she's dance-trained?  She's in great shape and is musical but the body control and movement expression are not there.  Mark has just choreographed some good routines that fit her.  It seems like Frankie has "personality fan favorite" locked down.  Victoria has done well but her physical limitations should not take her to the finals.  And, I do remember Amy and Noah.  Drew has stayed longer than I thought he would.  But, the voters will probably get tired of Jordan topping the leader board.  So maybe we'll have a shocker.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bottom line:  a celeb I enjoyed left, while two stayed who should have been eliminated before him.

On the flip side: a celeb I didn't care about left last night and the only two I care about are still there. So there's no way to please everyone.

Honestly, Drew should probably go next, and I'm pretty sure the judges want him gone too. All sevens are harsh for week eight, even if he deserved them (and yeah, the waltz was pretty bad). Still - I'm thinking Bristol Palin, and I'm thinking David Ross, and I'm thinking Bill Engval, and Drew is much better than any of them. So if I had to suffer those three in the finals I'm throwing all my votes at Drew so I finally get someone I care about in the finals, even if he's not the best dancer. It's about time.

And I suspect he's running away with the votes which is why the judges gave him those sevens. That probably has something to do with why Jordan is getting all 10s and Lindsey is getting 9s and 8s too. To my untrained eye she's right up there with Jordan but I bet you Jordan isn't getting the votes, and clearly the judges want him to win.

I skipped the final last season because between David Ross, Rashad Jennings and Normani Kordei, I didn't give two flips who won. It'll be the same this season if we wind up with some combination of Jordan, Lindsey and Victoria. Three people I'd never heard of before this season, and none of them have done anything to endear themselves to me. There have been plenty of past "celebrities" I'd never heard of but really warmed up to over the course of the season. These three? Nope.

[giaNtsandYankees]

I'm actually going to miss Terrell Owns. To be honest, during the beginning of the show, I was hoping he would get the boot right after the lady from Shark Tank, but after week four, he grew on me. It was during Movie Week when I realized that he had grown on me. He seemed to grow as a dancer and as a person. Hopefully he keeps up with it. I really enjoyed his and Cheryl's partnership over the weeks.

Sadly, I keep forgetting about Victoria, and I do agree with some here that she had reached her zenith. But she might make the top four based on 1) her story or 2) Val being her partner. I cannot remember the last time he has not been in the top four. Now their dance. In my opinion, I thought that it was self-indulgent of Val. I remember hearing the clip, and wondering if there was something wrong with my television, but no, it's a clip of Val and his last win...oops, and Laurie's. I don't know if the theme is Victoria watching Val and Laurie as fan and having her dream come true with dancing with a team she might have admired, or if it was Laurie passing along her "magic" or torch to Victoria. I could be wrong, but I do not see Victoria winning. 

Alphonso...I did like him in his season, and I was rooting for him, but I've found him irritating and a tad arrogant when he kept coming back. During his season, I thought that maybe he was just very extroverted with a very strong personality, but his personality is starting to read as arrogance. Alphonso, please focus on AFHV...even though I don't watch it. 

That's all I can remember for now. I was in between watching the show and making vegetarian meatballs. So I missed bits and pieces. I'll have to re-watch it on Hulu.

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, Palomar said:

Why don't I remember Corbin's season?  I'm drawing a blank.

Me too! I thought it was just me..

Edited November 7, 2017 by NeverLate

[vibeology]

15 hours ago, smiley13 said:

Mark has every right to be ticked off, at both the judges and the other contestants/pros.  Lindsey is an excellent dancer, but she was not a trained dancer prior to the show.  And the judges are not giving Lindsey the scores that she deserves.  If they get screwed out of the finals, I doubt we will ever see Mark on this show again, especially if they are sacrificed for Victoria.

See, I think Mark has every right to be annoyed with the judges who have been underscoring Lindsey these past couple of weeks. And I think Mark (and Frankie) have a bone to pick with the producers who are choosing how to edit a week's worth of footage into a two minute package that make it look like Lindsey was bouncing around no problem just a day or two after claiming she was seriously injured. But going after another contestant or pro just looks tacky and gross. They're all in the same boat and Mark has been around long enough to know how this show works. He needs to play nice with Frankie, Lindsay, Witney, Jordan etc. because they're working just as hard and are at the same whims of the producers. Mark and Lindsey are producing amazing work. The scores should be higher and the fact that they are does worry me as a fan. Still, the way to make it to the end isn't whining on social media.

I, too, want to join the love Alfonso crowd, with a caveat. I love him when he's dancing. (Talking to the judges is another story.)  He's a showboaty ham but that's okay because so is Witney and when they dance together, they match each other's energy and it works in a really special way. Of all the partnerships on this show to ever exist, they are my favourite. There is just such a respect and connection there that is really powerful and makes every performance special. I still think back on their fusion to "Shut Up and Dance" where it was clear that they were true partners working together to pull it off. So I was thrilled to have him back because when he's dancing with Witney there's nothing better to me.

I think Frankie was outmatched in that number and it showed a bit but he did the best of those who were outmatched of covering it up. Victoria and Drew couldn't cover it up. They were just outmatched and in Victoria's case the choreography didn't help. Laurie was out in front so much (and I'm sure her height played a part in that) that it seemed far more like her dance than Victoria's.

I think Lindsey/Mark/Kristi deserved a perfect score. That trio wasn't as showy but damn if it wasn't smooth and well-done. That was a jazz number in a classic Broadway sort of way and I think all three of them were at the same level. Dance doesn't have to be "big" to be good. Lindsey's samba was scored appropriately in my eyes. I did think her bounce was off and she did need more hip action, but I've found over the years that Mark and Derek were never great at teaching hip action. It might have something to do with how they were taught?

Jordan brought it in a big way. That Quickstep was remarkable. I hated the floor treatment but not enough to take away from how great that dance was. The Trio with Corbin was mind-blowingly good. Remind me again why Corbin didn't win? That was so electric and powerful. I loved it.

I'm sad to see TO go. I think he was growing despite thinking his trio was a hot mess. He was growing as a dancer and I'd much rather lose Drew or Victoria.

[Bliss]

I rewatched some of the dances today while having lunch and noticed a few things I didn't see last night. I love my pvr.

One of my fave parts was during Frankie/Witney/Alfonso when he started doing the Carlton and Frankie wiggled his no-no finger while Witney shook her head. It was seamless and well done. Those touches of humour are what endear me to this show.

Another revelation... does Lindsay ever look 'bad'? She has to be one of the most naturally beautiful women DWTS has ever had on this show and I hope she reads this thread. I mean, when some of the women have NO makeup on (Cheryl and Peta come to mind), they look like entirely different people... it isn't they look bad (they're all gorgeous with or without makeup) - they're just hugely enhanced by makeup - whereas Lindsay ALWAYS looks fresh and adorable. Ahh... youth!!!

I'm one of the viewers of DWTS who wishes they could find another scheme rather than the weekly elimination (e.g., they could have a mass exodus half way through and then right before the finals). Once the can't-dance-or-aren't-very-entertaining (or downright annoying) stars are gone, I just want everyone to stay... and dance!

Never did like that musical chairs game.

[spanana]

46 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Me too! I thought it was just me..

S17 was kind of a weird season in many ways and one that I always feel gets somewhat lost in the shuffle.  It was the first season where the show had been reduced to one night a week so prior to that all celebs had 2x a week to make whatever impression to fans.  It was also the weird season where thy had that weird bus stop thing, which was essentially a huge couch parked next to the judges table where the pros/celebs were all supposed to hang out during the show.  Basically they did away with the red room.  The whole thing was an epic fail because if I remember correctly the pros in particular instead of sitting there would just go disappear behind the scenes as opposed to being plopped on an awkward couch near the judges for two hours.  It also I think had the misfortune of falling between two pretty popular seasons that had a ton of fan craziness around them.

Anyway, on the whole Lindsey versus Jordan thing, I do think Lindsey has been somewhat underscored depending on the week.  I could see thinking her jazz was underscored last night.  I don't totally agree on the samba.  I think it was straight 9's.  Samba is always a hard one for the women and I agree with the assessment above that I don't think Lindsey quite got the bounce (so few of the women do).  I think what looked jerky was her attempt to master the bounce and she didn't quite get there.

Do I think Jordan is overall a better dancer than Lindsey?  Yes, for sure.  He probably has more training so that isn't an insult at Lindsey the same way as I don't expect Frankie and his lack of training to be on par with Jordan either.  From a skill level, I think the order of the remaining is Jordan, Lindsey, Frankie.  I think at this point I'm rooting for Jordan to win, which as much about me wanting Lindsay to win as anything else.  I'm not always in the best dancer needs to win camp.  Just depends on my mood that season and when looking at the pros of the remaining, I'd most like Lindsay to get the trophy.  Though I admit I haven't cast a single vote this season.

Edited November 7, 2017 by spanana

[After7Only]

17 hours ago, doLLish said:

I spy Adrienne Bailon in the audience. I now fully expect her to be on the next season and if she is I hope she’s with Keo.

 

So I can't tell if you love Adrienne or hate her.  LOL.  I love Keo but he's been a bit of a jinx partner wise.  

I also spotted Essence Atkins in the audience.  Would love to see her on the show.  But I don't see it happening.  

17 hours ago, alexa said:

Are they gradually firing Erin?  Tom is doing 90% of the work. 

I think it's a combination of things.  The show was running long.  Plus they tend to ease up on her workload on during football season.   

[doLLish]

34 minutes ago, After7Only said:

So I can't tell if you love Adrienne or hate her.  LOL.  I love Keo but he's been a bit of a jinx partner wise.   

This made me laugh so hard lmao!

I love Keo and like Adrienne. She would definitely be a ringer. I think that its time he gets a CONFIDENT, young-ish, capable dancer. I think he and Adrienne would be an amazing combination. He's had awful partners outside of Jodi and the partnership with Jodi never had a chance once she wasn't paired with Val. Social media never let either of them get over that and aside from that Jodi was constantly in her own head and never fully gave herself over to "the process". When they did manage to block out all of the noise they had some nice performances, their contemporary and the dance the night she was eliminated come to mind immediately.

[Legalgirl82]

2 hours ago, vibeology said:

See, I think Mark has every right to be annoyed with the judges who have been underscoring Lindsey these past couple of weeks. And I think Mark (and Frankie) have a bone to pick with the producers who are choosing how to edit a week's worth of footage into a two minute package that make it look like Lindsey was bouncing around no problem just a day or two after claiming she was seriously injured. But going after another contestant or pro just looks tacky and gross. They're all in the same boat and Mark has been around long enough to know how this show works. He needs to play nice with Frankie, Lindsay, Witney, Jordan etc. because they're working just as hard and are at the same whims of the producers. Mark and Lindsey are producing amazing work. The scores should be higher and the fact that they are does worry me as a fan. Still, the way to make it to the end isn't whining on social media.

I actually think Mark's tweet was his way of picking a bone with the producers.  I also believe it was his way of refuting (for the audience...at least those on social media) both the appearance of the package, which was somewhat ambiguous as to which of the two ladies Frankie was referring to, as it showed Lindsey and Mark practicing just after Frankie said "Lindsay");  and the claims of others' fans that she wasn't injured.  His tweet was not directed at Frankie and he doesn't mention Frankie at all.  I think he is well aware that the edit made it look (for some) like Frankie was talking about Lindsey dancing perfectly on day 2.  Witney's follow up statement was (I believe) clearly meant to make Frankie feel better and I don't fault her for that.  Nevertheless, that's the second time in two weeks that another pro has talked about Lindsey having dance experience.  Val's statement was far worse, in my opinion, because his was factually incorrect, in that he stated that Lindsey has a "lifetime of dance experience".  Mark didn't go off on Val last week (though he had a perfect right to), nor did he go off on Witney; so why would he go after Frankie?  Well, it doesn't make any sense that he would, and I don't see that he did.    

He followed up that tweet with two in which he talked about how Lindsey "didn't shoot her wide" (whatever that means) until Saturday (a day late) because this one "was a challenge"; and he said that she works incredibly hard to dance as well as she does and that it doesn't come easy.  So, yes, I think all three of his tweets were meant to both refute the narrative this week's package inferred about Lindsey and to (hopefully) derail the late in the game mentions of her dance experience.  I expect that the way Paige was sandbagged by the edit of her semi-finals package is still fresh in Mark's mind; and he doesn't want the same to happen to Lindsey.     

Shortly thereafter, he tweeted "Fantastic job" and "Well deserved" to Jordan, Lindsay and Corbin on their trio; and Lindsay followed up with a "thank you" tweet.

[kjh]

Re: Lindsey and Mark's Samba, to my eyes it didn't look grounded. Both Lindsey and Mark had their weight up and out of their feet, and there's no way to create the proper hip action without using your feet against the floor. It gives the jerky, bouncy, incomplete look that they had. 

[littlecowgirl93]

6 hours ago, spanana said:

You may be right, but I feel like I've seen negative conspiracy theories about all that are left, so is Lindsey really getting it worse than anyone else?  I honestly don't think Lindsey is going to win and to be fair, I don't overly care.  Even if we play the best dancer should always win card, I think Jordan is better all around than Lindsey.  She should be in the finals of course, but her not winning is not going to be a travesty of epic proportions.

I personally just think Mark could have aimed his gripe at editing and TPTB as opposed to another contestant for no real reason.  Yes, he's defending his celeb and that part is fine.  My main gripe is that Mark of all people understands how editing works so place your fury in the direction where it needs to be placed- TPTB.

Also in terms of conspiracy theories, I've also seen theories questioning Victoria's background and injuries (and faking things for the camera). I've seen theories about Frankie faking his "aw shucks" personality and is playing a part to get him to the win.  I'm not sure if I've seen theories about Jordan faking anything, though there were people calling into question his over the top theatrics (to some people) during memorable story week and his adoption story.  I've also seen people argue they don't think Jordan's emotions are genuine and he's putting on an act for the camera.  So is Lindsey the only one getting hated on? Of course not.

But Lindsey (the contestant) and Jordan are the only ones, so far, that have been hated on by other contestants and/or pros.

[kitcloudkicker]

43 minutes ago, Legalgirl82 said:

he talked about how Lindsey "didn't shoot her wide" (whatever that means) until Saturday

"Wides" are a filmed version of the complete choreography from start to finish, in one 'wide' shot. They're then sent to the directors/camera people so that they can plan the camera shots for the live show. (Which they run through in camera blocking Saturday/Sunday)

[Callaphera]

3 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

"Wides" are a filmed version of the complete choreography from start to finish, in one 'wide' shot. They're then sent to the directors/camera people so that they can plan the camera shots for the live show. (Which they run through in camera blocking Saturday/Sunday)

Considering that they fail at blocking and framing almost every week leads me to believe that in this case, "Wides" must be the name of a nearby doughnut shop that caters snacks in the back or something. 

[spanana]

2 hours ago, Legalgirl82 said:

I actually think Mark's tweet was his way of picking a bone with the producers.  I also believe it was his way of refuting (for the audience...at least those on social media) both the appearance of the package, which was somewhat ambiguous as to which of the two ladies Frankie was referring to, as it showed Lindsey and Mark practicing just after Frankie said "Lindsay");  and the claims of others' fans that she wasn't injured.  His tweet was not directed at Frankie and he doesn't mention Frankie at all.  I think he is well aware that the edit made it look (for some) like Frankie was talking about Lindsey dancing perfectly on day 2.  Witney's follow up statement was (I believe) clearly meant to make Frankie feel better and I don't fault her for that.  Nevertheless, that's the second time in two weeks that another pro has talked about Lindsey having dance experience.  Val's statement was far worse, in my opinion, because his was factually incorrect, in that he stated that Lindsey has a "lifetime of dance experience".  Mark didn't go off on Val last week (though he had a perfect right to), nor did he go off on Witney; so why would he go after Frankie?  Well, it doesn't make any sense that he would, and I don't see that he did.    

Except that Mark was faving tweets that suggested otherwise.  Sure he didn't come outright and name Frankie, but the implication certainly was there an any time somebody tried to point out that maybe Frankie was talking about Lindsay and not Lindsey, he brushed them off basically telling them they were crazy (or letting his fans do it while he faved them).  My only point at this point is Mark could have framed it better.  He has every right to stand up for Lindsey but I think he could have framed his response and then subsequent reaction to his fans better.

Quote

But Lindsey (the contestant) and Jordan are the only ones, so far, that have been hated on by other contestants and/or pros.

I would say hated on by other contestants and/or pros is a little bit of an exaggeration.  Nobody has said anything remotely hateful about Jordan or Lindsey on camera.  People have name checked them as the frontrunners and as having previous dance experience and maybe the latter is a fallacy in Lindsey's case, but it certainly isn't hateful.  People on set seem to love both Jordan and Lindsey.

Edited November 7, 2017 by spanana

[doLLish]

4 minutes ago, spanana said:

Except that Mark was faving tweets that suggested otherwise.  Sure he didn't come outright and name Frankie, but the implication certainly was there an any time somebody tried to point out that maybe Frankie was talking about Lindsay and not Lindsey, he brushed them off.

Agreed

[gohawks]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The Jordan/Lindsay/Corbin trio is EXACTLY why I don't give a shit about any of the celebs having prior dance experience. I would rather watch a well choreographed dance that isn't watered down (see: Drew as Emma's human prop in the waltz) and well executed by a celeb who has had dance training so that I can be entertained for 90 seconds instead of watching an allegedly 90 second dance that actually consists of 30 seconds of faffing about in the beginning, 15 seconds of dancing in hold, 15 seconds of the celeb standing still or walking forward while the pro literally dances circles around them, and then 30 seconds of faffing about before the ending pose.

If prior dance experience will give me more dances like that salsa trio, then I say bring in more celebs with dance experience! I get so bored/annoyed with dances where it's obvious that the pro is trying desperately to fill the time with poses and camouflaging the celeb's weaknesses. I don't care about growth and journeys and all that other BS. I don't need to watch someone with two left feet become slightly less clumsy over the course of two months.

On a related note, oh, look, Kelly Monaco is back to remind us how much it sucked when she won S1. But she had a journey! She "improved"!

I am so tired of the camouflaging on this show, deliberate or otherwise. If the celeb is wearing black from head to toe, don't have a dark background. You can have one or the other, but not both. Victoria's camouflage was so deliberate. Did we see her feet for more than ten seconds during that entire dance?

I really dislike having trios because it's really obvious from the choreography that they have to shoehorn someone in, so there are too many moments where one person is just off to the side or in the back while two of them dance together. Bringing back all of these winners for the trios mostly showed this season's celebs' weaknesses. I felt bad for Cheryl because a rumba trio? How do you do that without making the dance look like a menage à trois? Even so, Terrell did very little dancing in that routine.

Lindsey had her shoulders hunched over a lot in one of her dances. It made me want to poke her between the shoulder blades.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

 

I am a big fan of all things Chmerkovskiy, but the camoflauging of Victoria's footwork was very houghy. Val is better than that. 

 

Which leads me to my defense of Kelly.  Season 1, she won because the GH fans voted for her. But during all-stars, Val did what he does so well. He teaches his celebs to dance. He teaches technique.  Go back and look at Kelly in all-stars. She deserved her place in the finals during all-stars.  From that very first cha-cha you could see that she had benefitted from Val's teaching style.

Jordan's trio was top-notch.  Lindsay is a great dancer and choreographer. 

[kitcloudkicker]

12 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Considering that they fail at blocking and framing almost every week leads me to believe that in this case, "Wides" must be the name of a nearby doughnut shop that caters snacks in the back or something. 

They do win Emmys for their technical direction & camerawork quite a bit! Maybe everyone else is just more terrible. ;)

(Snark aside though, I think live TV direction is probably just really hard.) 

Edited November 7, 2017 by kitcloudkicker

[gohawks]

17 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I notice that Lindsay is finally starting to talk about the fact that she's never had a mirrorball.  She certainly deserves one.  I liked Jordan a little bit more tonight because of how he was while casually hanging out with Corbin.  Still can't stand Corbin, he's got a Chmerkovskiy size ego.  I couldn't see Jordan's damn quickstep because of the stage.  The trio was good, but it had some awkward seconds.

I  honestly don't see Corbin having a large ego. I literally can't think of a moment when I thought he was anything other than humble and sweet-natured.

[littlecowgirl93]

14 minutes ago, spanana said:

Except that Mark was faving tweets that suggested otherwise.  Sure he didn't come outright and name Frankie, but the implication certainly was there an any time somebody tried to point out that maybe Frankie was talking about Lindsay and not Lindsey, he brushed them off basically telling them they were crazy (or letting his fans do it while he faved them).  My only point at this point is Mark could have framed it better.

I would say hated on by other contestants and/or pros is a little bit of an exaggeration.  Nobody has said anything remotely hateful about Jordan or Lindsey on camera.  People have name checked them as the frontrunners and as having previous dance experience and maybe the latter is a fallacy in Lindsey's case, but it certainly isn't hateful.  People on set seem to love both Jordan and Lindsey.

I debated on whether or not to put hated in quotes because I thought it was too strong of a word. But then I thought some people might think I was being sarcastic and digging on Lindsey and Jordan, which I wasn’t. I do think they have been picked on by a lot of people because they are so good.

[friendperidot]

Quote

Why don't I remember Corbin's season?  I'm drawing a blank.

That was the year Amber Riley from Glee won with Derek Hough.  He was paired with Karina Smirnoff.  Bill Engvall and Jack Osbourne (third that season) were also on that season.

Thanks, I had to Google too because I remember Corbin being on the show, but I couldn't remember him. I don't even remember much about Amber, I liked her, but I don't really remember her. I do remember Bill Engvall and Jack Osbourne from that season. Never care much for either and frankly I didn't know much about either, but I enjoyed both of them from their season.

[spanana]

1 hour ago, gohawks said:

Which leads me to my defense of Kelly.  Season 1, she won because the GH fans voted for her. But during all-stars, Val did what he does so well. He teaches his celebs to dance. He teaches technique.  Go back and look at Kelly in all-stars. She deserved her place in the finals during all-stars.  From that very first cha-cha you could see that she had benefitted from Val's teaching style.

I agree. I kind of hated the direction Val went with her because I hate showmance crap, but I think the thing with Kelly is she obviously isn't a natural dancer.  But she had enough ability to be able to learn and grow.  The thing is like most people that learn how to dance on this show, if you're not a natural born dancer or somebody who keeps up some form of movement training, you are going to lose it as soon as you stop rehearsals.  So people like Corbin and Kristi and even Alfonso have enough of a natural skill set (and often training) that they can probably come in at any time and pick things up easily.  That is not going to be someone like Kelly.  Which in that sense is why I thought she was an odd pick for this.  I know Cheryl did it because they were friends, but there are a limited number of celebs you can use for a challenge like this.  You need the ones that have either training or innate talent.  

[PTVjones]

Watching Lindsay/Jordan/Corbin Trio made me wish that next season is an All Star Season and Corbin will be on it. I loved his dancing with Karina back during his season and think he'd be great to watch again...

[thesupremediva1]

Sad to see TO go. I loved him and Cheryl together.

The one saving grace of the night is that they kept the Ed Sheeran version of Perfect. I'm currently in love with that song, and if the band had butchered it, I might have had to throw something at my TV. Frankie and Whitney were so sweet in that dance, like two teens going to the senior prom. He got all my votes this week. 

Mark and Lindsey slayed again. She's quite the tiger! I just love her. I'm hoping she wins it all. Mark is so beyond creative and his return only made it more obvious how much the show lacks without him. He deserves another Mirrorball.

Underwhelmed by the trios in general. Some of them couldn't keep up at all (Kelly) and some completely outdanced current contestants (Laurie) to detriment of the remaining couples. Only Corbin and Jordan's felt cohesive.

Edited November 8, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[Legalgirl82]

4 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

"Wides" are a filmed version of the complete choreography from start to finish, in one 'wide' shot. They're then sent to the directors/camera people so that they can plan the camera shots for the live show. (Which they run through in camera blocking Saturday/Sunday)

Thank you.

4 hours ago, spanana said:

Except that Mark was faving tweets that suggested otherwise.  Sure he didn't come outright and name Frankie, but the implication certainly was there an any time somebody tried to point out that maybe Frankie was talking about Lindsay and not Lindsey, he brushed them off basically telling them they were crazy (or letting his fans do it while he faved them).  My only point at this point is Mark could have framed it better.  He has every right to stand up for Lindsey but I think he could have framed his response and then subsequent reaction to his fans better.

I don't see that.  He liked one tweet which said that the tweeter wished every couple would focus on their own journey and comparing themselves to other couples does not do any favors; which is basically the same thing Witney was saying to Frankie in the clip and it's what Mark has said is his and Lindsey's approach to each week in interviews.  He liked another tweet which said that the judges got the tweeter's eyes rolling.  He liked a couple of tweets which said that "they" (the showrunners, not Frankie) showed Lindsey in that clip, too.  There was a response to his tweet about how hard Lindsey works by a tweeter who said he (Frankie) was talking about Jordan and Lindsay; and Mark's response to that tweeter was to "watch it again"...again, nothing directed against Frankie.  He was referring to the inference in the editing of the clip.  He didn't like any of the tweets referring to "shade" or "tea".  

ETA:  He also liked Lindsay's "thank you" tweet back to him.  

Edited November 8, 2017 by Legalgirl82

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

 

The one saving grace of the night is that they kept the Ed Sheeran version of Perfect. If the band had butchered it, I might have had to throw something at my TV.

Only Corbin and Jordan's felt cohesive.

Couldn't agree more!

3 hours ago, friendperidot said:

Thanks, I had to Google too because I remember Corbin being on the show, but I couldn't remember him. I don't even remember much about Amber, I liked her, but I don't really remember her. I do remember Bill Engvall and Jack Osbourne from that season. Never care much for either and frankly I didn't know much about either, but I enjoyed both of them from their season.

All I remember about Amber is her free style had a western theme, she came out of saloon doors, wearing a vest and Derek threw in lots of his trademark simultaneous hand/feet choreo that looked really amazing. That's about it. Can't even remember the song. 

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, Legalgirl82 said:

 

I don't see that.  He liked one tweet which said that the tweeter wished every couple would focus on their own journey and comparing themselves to other couples does not do any favors; which is basically the same thing Witney was saying to Frankie in the clip and it's what Mark has said is his and Lindsey's approach to each week in interviews.  He liked another tweet which said that the judges got the tweeter's eyes rolling.  He liked a couple of tweets which said that "they" (the showrunners, not Frankie) showed Lindsey in that clip, too.  There was a response to his tweet about how hard Lindsey works by a tweeter who said he (Frankie) was talking about Jordan and Lindsay; and Mark's response to that tweeter was to "watch it again"...again, nothing directed against Frankie.  He was referring to the inference in the editing of the clip.  He didn't like any of the tweets referring to "shade" or "tea".  

ETA:  He also liked Lindsay's "thank you" tweet back to him.  

I finally was able to go on Mark's twitter and see what everyone has been talking about.

His exact tweet was:

"Hmmmmm I️ wasn’t at the rehearsal where @LindseyStirling was dancing her routine to music on day 2"

The "hmmmm" actually changes the tone of the tweet for me, as in, "that's a weird statement to make and it's completely not true." It still conveys displeasure, but IMO, the tweet is not really attacking or shading anyone.

[boyznkatz]

5 hours ago, gohawks said:

I  honestly don't see Corbin having a large ego. I literally can't think of a moment when I thought he was anything other than humble and sweet-natured.

He is awesome. I don't normally like trios but that Corbin-Lindsay-Jordan one was to die for.

Edited November 8, 2017 by boyznkatz

[crowceilidh]

I found him ANYTHING but humble and sweet-natured in his season with Karina.  I was very surprised they didn't publically fight.  He's a great dancer and was fun to watch, but that is it - I was super glad he didn't win.

[IrishImport]

Didn't anybody else see Kristi Yamaguchi totally diss Sasha at the top of the sky box stairs? Sasha was standing at the top, gave Lindsey a big hug, reached for Kristi and she blew right past him. Sideways. He had a funny look on his face. Then he gave Mark a quick man-hug.  Ouch, that was cold, Kristi.  Did she just blank out or does she not like him? Everybody likes Sasha! 

[boyznkatz]

7 minutes ago, IrishImport said:

Didn't anybody else see Kristi Yamaguchi totally diss Sasha at the top of the sky box stairs? Sasha was standing at the top, gave Lindsey a big hug, reached for Kristi and she blew right past him. Sideways. He had a funny look on his face. Then he gave Mark a quick man-hug.  Ouch, that was cold, Kristi.  Did she just blank out or does she not like him? Everybody likes Sasha! 

I saw that, too. Maybe she just doesn't know him? I was a fan of her skating, but she had a canned personality so I was never that interested in her personally.

Edited November 8, 2017 by boyznkatz

[gohawks]

2 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

 I was a fan of her skating, but she had a canned personality...

This why I never liked her dancing.

[tessaforever]

12 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

One of the things I noticed about Mark and Kristi and Lindsey's trio is that I could identify the dance.  You could ask me what type of dance they were doing and I would have said jazz.  Except for Lindsey's posture, I loved it.

Especially because SO many times on this show "Jazz" is used as a catch-all term for "whatever we could come up with to fit this music". But Mark choreographed an actual jazz dance!

11 hours ago, crossover said:

I just couldn't think of what I didn't like about Lindsey's samba.  I thought of jumpy instead of bouncy but maybe jerky is better.  It looked like she was trying too hard.  I was surprised the scores were so high? 

I have a feeling that Jordan is too good for this season.  Lindsey is his closest challenge.  I really don't see why people think she's dance-trained?  She's in great shape and is musical but the body control and movement expression are not there.  Mark has just choreographed some good routines that fit her.  It seems like Frankie has "personality fan favorite" locked down.  Victoria has done well but her physical limitations should not take her to the finals.  And, I do remember Amy and Noah.  Drew has stayed longer than I thought he would.  But, the voters will probably get tired of Jordan topping the leader board.  So maybe we'll have a shocker.

I disliked a lot about her samba. And I noticed they didn't do samba rolls (man, I've been watching this show a long time. When I started I had never heard of a samba roll). Perhaps she can't do them because of her rib injury, but the judges usually expect them at this stage of the competition. Also I hated her fur trimmed shoes - like some maribou-trimmed slippers worn by a 70s housewife. 

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

On the flip side: a celeb I didn't care about left last night and the only two I care about are still there. So there's no way to please everyone.

Honestly, Drew should probably go next, and I'm pretty sure the judges want him gone too. All sevens are harsh for week eight, even if he deserved them (and yeah, the waltz was pretty bad). Still - I'm thinking Bristol Palin, and I'm thinking David Ross, and I'm thinking Bill Engval, and Drew is much better than any of them. So if I had to suffer those three in the finals I'm throwing all my votes at Drew so I finally get someone I care about in the finals, even if he's not the best dancer. It's about time.

And I suspect he's running away with the votes which is why the judges gave him those sevens. That probably has something to do with why Jordan is getting all 10s and Lindsey is getting 9s and 8s too. To my untrained eye she's right up there with Jordan but I bet you Jordan isn't getting the votes, and clearly the judges want him to win.

There are many things I don't understand about this show, and for the life of me I do not understand why Drew has been treated the way he has. Not necessarily the scores; I think that's mostly been fair. But the comments, the attitude the judges have taken towards him. He's been nothing but effusive about the show, has a good partnership with Emma, and works hard. But instead of giving him encouragement and some constructive criticism (as has been done with much worse celebs), he is almost constantly hated on by the judges. Only a few times have they said anything good. 

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 8 (in alphabetical order):

 

 

Frankie & Witney (Alfonso) - thought the routine played a nice, soft homage to Witney's previous dances with Alfonso, and that she modified it nicely to suit Frankie this time around. Thought there was a nice freedom to the movement (without it being wild), and that it had nice rhythm and control.  Nice to see flick ball changes, elements of swing at the top and the smooth trio movement around the floor. Think the raised shoulders crept a hair back into the trio (but not like in the Viennese Waltz). Think its nice that Frankie made it this deep in the competition and that he has learned/grown relative to his prior start on DWTS. Still hoping Frankie can connect even more to the music/performance down the line, as he's shown earlier glimpses of that; but a nice trio performance nonethless and looking forward to his dances.

 

Jordan & Lindsay (Corbin) - thought their salsa had the right flavor/exotic ingredients to produce an energetic night club vibe that kept permeating - one pulse after another - throughout the studio; felt it was also the performance from which the audience's mind was wholly connected to and engaged with. Liked the freedom in their movements, how they kept fluid symmetry as trio, and how comfortable/flexible everyone felt to experiment spontaneously during the routine (banter with judge, assisted knee flip section, tongue wag). The sensuous brush up Lindsay's legs, tight confident spins, the ease and organic nature of the lifts/dismounts – it was nice to see how there was no hesitation in their movements, how the routine held one's attention from start to finish, and how everything came into full fruition on the night.

 

Lindsey & Mark (Kristi) - thought their jazz trio captured the Hollywood gloss with the individual spotlight introduction setting the tone nicely. Liked her spin at the top, her nice arm extensions and how she kept the glamorous character until the very end; thought she also did a nice job with the varied, facial expressions to add to the lively routine. Though wished there could've been a breakout moment somewhere in the routine, thought there were still lots of steps that gave off a Broadway charm and feel. Maybe Lindsey could let the movements flow through her long arms a bit more (seems to stop up to her triceps in tiny moments), and to improve a bit on her posture as well.  But a bright, nostalgic and uplifting jazz routine and hope she continues to build upon this routine in the weeks to come.

 

 

----------------------------------/

---------- & ----------

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Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[Bridget]

12 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

Especially because SO many times on this show "Jazz" is used as a catch-all term for "whatever we could come up with to fit this music". But Mark choreographed an actual jazz dance!

I disliked a lot about her samba. And I noticed they didn't do samba rolls (man, I've been watching this show a long time. When I started I had never heard of a samba roll). Perhaps she can't do them because of her rib injury, but the judges usually expect them at this stage of the competition. Also I hated her fur trimmed shoes - like some maribou-trimmed slippers worn by a 70s housewife. 

There are many things I don't understand about this show, and for the life of me I do not understand why Drew has been treated the way he has. Not necessarily the scores; I think that's mostly been fair. But the comments, the attitude the judges have taken towards him. He's been nothing but effusive about the show, has a good partnership with Emma, and works hard. But instead of giving him encouragement and some constructive criticism (as has been done with much worse celebs), he is almost constantly hated on by the judges. Only a few times have they said anything good. 

100% agree!!

I wonder when they'll just give up and re-name anything in the jazz/contemporary wheelhouse as interpretive dance?!

Couldn't get into the samba either...and it wasn't those ugly shoes! I think it's fair to say that Mark wins the award for Most Creative ___________ (insert noun of your choice here), but for ME, that particular samba wasn't entertaining to watch. 

Allow me to preface the next part with this: I had a tear or two in my eye when Len stood up and clapped for Jordan last night, but I am especially disappointed in Len's civility with Drew.

While I am shocked Drew is still around, I also give him major credit for being insulted each week during scoring and not complaining about it (at least that we've been privy to). Nick Lachey was worse than Drew and the judges were at least civil to him when they pointed out his plethora of mistakes. Len was right: keeping a strong frame/elbow is important, but Drew has improved a little bit each week, except for the never-speak-about-it-again Indiana Jones/Movie Night dance, whereas Nick couldn't keep up with the steps and made tons of mistakes, but I don't recall him being "spoken down to", insulted or criticized as harshly as Drew has been. 

[calipiano81]

4 hours ago, IrishImport said:

Didn't anybody else see Kristi Yamaguchi totally diss Sasha at the top of the sky box stairs? Sasha was standing at the top, gave Lindsey a big hug, reached for Kristi and she blew right past him. Sideways. He had a funny look on his face. Then he gave Mark a quick man-hug.  Ouch, that was cold, Kristi.  Did she just blank out or does she not like him? Everybody likes Sasha! 

I think they were being rushed along to go talk to Erin. It doesn't seem fair to judge something that happened so fast. Also, maybe she DOESN'T know Sasha very well and might have been caught off guard.

Edited November 8, 2017 by calipiano81