S25.E09: Week 8: Trio Night

[crossover]

7 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

Lindsey could still win if she has a bigger fanbase than Jordan. Historically people his age have never won unless they were cute gymnasts. 

I don't remember anyone saying she was inadequate, anyway. She's still good.

And I think Lindsey does have a bigger fanbase.  The way they're scoring Jordan puts me in mind of how they scored Normani.  Jordan's the best dancer left just like Normani was.  So they had to made sure she made the finals.  I hope it's not true.  But like you say, there's been no male in early 20s who's won nor has there been a Disney kid to win.

[crossover]

16 hours ago, realdancemom said:

As for stealing choreography, I don't think Mark stole choreography at all.  It was just two little portions and choreography that anybody could come up with if they were doing a futuristic dance.  Something that I would think could be considered stealing is Tyce's Eli, Eli choreography with Chehon and Kathryn on SYTYCD.  In that one, it was contemporary and the story & props were the same as the original piece.  Even in that one, the choreography was a little different since it had more technique.  Sorry, I don't have a link to the original.  I just know it was done at an International dance competition and Tyce was a judge on it.  So that's another coincidence.

Agree.  I don't call this stealing choreography.  He incorporated a couple of moves, like how a lot of people started incorporating the moonwalk after Michael Jackson.

[McManda]

6 hours ago, katha said:

They also trust him that things like "I'll play the crab in this dance! We'll do duck samba, Super Mario, rabbit foxtrot!, scary clown jive (I love that one, I don't even care)!, Breaking Bad jazz, Sci-fi tango!" will somehow work out. And, more often than not, they do.

This is reason #1 I'm not really into Mark. I have no judgment on his personality, teaching style, or work ethic, but I find myself bored with the over the top themes for everything. Some of it isn't completely his fault because it's mandated by the show (though, to compare to Derek, Derek did played by the theme rules but never went as far as Mark does for the regular dances), but sometimes he just throws it in anyway.

There's a reason the freestyle isn't as highly anticipated anymore - because every dance is bigger and better with more troupe. I don't care much about Mark's dances anymore because everything is crazier. (His Disney waltz with Lindsay was refreshing. Too bad he doesn't trend more that way.)

[Andie1]

I always vote for good dancing, regardless of the experience. I don't care much for the intro packages and the behind the scenes gotcha videos, I just want to see dance.

His fanbase is small for this demographic, but Jordan is going to continue to do really well in the industry, he has a good family who support him completely and that is going to help him. He's definitely dorky theatre smart, which can rub people the wrong way, but I love it because he has a confidence that just shines when he dances.  He would be ideal to win from the show's perspective, given that they have been for years trying to get a younger audience.  He is the first Disney child male gender who has so far got as far as Corbin, and I think he can get further if the vote was just about dancing. It would be nice to see a Disney kid win for once.  They are the biggest subset of actors on this show who have never held the mirrorball. 

4 hours ago, crossover said:

Agree.  I don't call this stealing choreography.  He incorporated a couple of moves, like how a lot of people started incorporating the moonwalk after Michael Jackson.

And Michael Jackson stole the moonwalk from the Nicholas Brothers.

[Andie1]

5 hours ago, crossover said:

And I think Lindsey does have a bigger fanbase.  The way they're scoring Jordan puts me in mind of how they scored Normani.  Jordan's the best dancer left just like Normani was.  So they had to made sure she made the finals.  I hope it's not true.  But like you say, there's been no male in early 20s who's won nor has there been a Disney kid to win.

For me, Normani was never tested in proper ballroom and latin.  She did jazz and contemporary movement for most of the season and when it got to doing a full ballroom dance she wasn't very good at it.  Smoke and mirrors to get this girl to the end.  At least Jordan is doing all the prescribed dances and he is mastering the technique required along the way.

[majormama]

7 hours ago, katha said:

Tied to that, IMO that is also why he can do all these "out there" dances with his partners. Someone remarked that it looks like Lindsey wants to please Mark. That's usually the case with his partners. He's a great teacher, he forms good bonds and he's able to make his partners feel confident. So they trust him and want to do well. They also trust him that things like "I'll play the crab in this dance! We'll do duck samba, Super Mario, rabbit foxtrot!, scary clown jive (I love that one, I don't even care)!, Breaking Bad jazz, Sci-fi tango!" will somehow work out. And, more often than not, they do. That's the fun he brings to the show and he can do that in a way that's beneficial to his partners and doesn't make them uncomfortable because he's a great teacher and partner who goes out of his way to build trust in every dance partnership.

 

Love him or hate him (and I do love him), you can't say Mark's dances aren't memorable. I immediately knew each dance you mentioned just on the two or three word description. 

[Andie1]

8 hours ago, Sd601 said:

Unabashedly, I will say my fav is Jordan. It didn't start that way (I first voted for Frankie and still enjoy him), but now I love watching Jordan.

I started out thinking I would vote for Lindsey and Mark,  and actually the first four weeks I didn't vote because I kept thinking this Jordan kid was so good at standard ballroom, that I would be betraying my gut.   I am voting for Jordan now because it's obvious he needs the support to stay in this.

[boyznkatz]

10 hours ago, Sd601 said:

All of this intense discussion is indicative of a great season. If we're all bored, we won't have fun diving into the nuisances of each contestant: is jordan a ringer? Is Lindsey underscored? Is frankie overscored? Who's choreography is best? It's just a testament to the casting this season--it's been fun to watch!

Unabashedly, I will say my fav is Jordan. It didn't start that way (I first voted for Frankie and still enjoy him), but now I love watching Jordan. Is he a trained "ringer?" Yeah, probably so. But Heather Morris last season was as well, and while I enjoyed watching her dance, I disliked her personality. She was probably just shy and reserved, but Frankie portrays that similar trait with humility, while Heather left me cold and uncomfortable.

if more uneducated dance watchers like me vote (but hey, I've watched SYTYCD for several years!), then Jordan may be getting the votes. If you look on YouTube, he has some funny, charming interviews off camera with Lindsay. I like him, I like his dancing, and I hope they win. But freestyle can make or break you. I hope he can do mark ballas's jive proud (Mary). See where I went there? No? Too cheesy? Yeah probably...

Jordan probably is charming and funny, but the show doesn't really show that side of him. All his packages are too polished. His dances are awesome, though. Maybe that's enough to get him the trophy.

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

For me, Normani was never tested in proper ballroom and latin.  She did jazz and contemporary movement for most of the season and when it got to doing a full ballroom dance she wasn't very good at it.  Smoke and mirrors to get this girl to the end.  At least Jordan is doing all the prescribed dances and he is mastering the technique required along the way.

I think that is Val's fault. Victoria is going that same route. Has she done the samba or salsa?

[realdancemom]

8 hours ago, crossover said:

Oh OK.  I thought of Chelsea but I figured you were going for the ones who ended in 2nd place.

For the longest time, I forgot that Chelsea was third and kept thinking that she came in second.  I'll be honest that I was rooting for Paige, Chelsea, and Kathryn during their seasons.  However, all three freestyles disappointed me.  I don't remember Chelsea's freestyle but I remember that I didn't like any of the freestyles during her season.  Kathryn's freestyle was messy.  I'm not sure if it was her shoes that messed her up or if the choreography was too much.  It was just uncharacteristic of her.  Donald was a big fan of the show and called it when he said what each couple was doing.  Speaking of that, I think Paige shouldn't have done a contemporary.  That season, she couldn't match Nyle's background story.  Mark should have known that Nyle would also do a contemporary piece.  It was also smart that Peta used an outside choreographer since contemporary is not her specialty.  I would have liked to see a more upbeat creative freestyle from Paige and Mark.  Her freestyle was nice but didn't have the wow factor.  

Katha, I loved your whole post on Mark vs. Derek.  I especially agree with you that I'm glad that all the choreographers are different and have their own strengths and weaknesses.

[realdancemom]

8 hours ago, crossover said:

Agree.  I don't call this stealing choreography.  He incorporated a couple of moves, like how a lot of people started incorporating the moonwalk after Michael Jackson.

In this case, the moves are head and hand tics that match the music.  So if somebody was doing a sci-fi theme, those moves just seem like natural movements for the song, e.g copying how a cyborg, robot, etc. moves.  

[luvthepros]

4 hours ago, Andie1 said:

And Michael Jackson stole the moonwalk from the Nicholas Brothers.

Really? I LOVE the Nicholas Brothers. Their work has not been equaled in tap, if you ask me. I just don't recall them doing any move that resembles MJ's moonwalk. Can you give me a name of a movie and routine?

[realdancemom]

37 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

Really? I LOVE the Nicholas Brothers. Their work has not been equaled in tap, if you ask me. I just don't recall them doing any move that resembles MJ's moonwalk. Can you give me a name of a movie and routine?

I have read that Bill Bailey did the first moonwalk (backslide) in 1955 at the Apollo.  This is a wonderful clip that show him and others doing the moonwalk or other moves that might have influenced Michael Jackson.   The author even gave a shout out to the Nicholas Brothers to watch their dancing. 

 I tried to find a clip of Nicholas Brothers doing a backslide but couldn't find one.  But I do love this clip:  You've probably already seen it but I'm linking it for others to enjoy.  Maybe, they do the backslide in this clip but they move so fast that I missed it.

Edited November 11, 2017 by realdancemom

[Andie1]

3 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Really? I LOVE the Nicholas Brothers. Their work has not been equaled in tap, if you ask me. I just don't recall them doing any move that resembles MJ's moonwalk. Can you give me a name of a movie and routine?

There is a 1940 clip of Down Argentine Way where there is a little backward to front slide also Cab Calloway used to incorporate a slide in his dancing 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KNrI7XF-pII

[SnarkyTart]

3 hours ago, realdancemom said:

This is a wonderful clip that show him and others doing the moonwalk or other moves

 

3 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I tried to find a clip of Nicholas Brothers doing a backslide but couldn't find one.  But I do love this clip:  You've probably already seen it but I'm linking it for others to enjoy.

Aaaah.  Thank you SO much for posting both of these wonderful, historically important clips.  We will never see their likes again. 

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

 

Aaaah.  Thank you SO much for posting both of these wonderful, historically important clips.  We will never see their likes again. 

You're welcome.  Thanks to Andie1 for mentioning Nicholas Brothers' moonwalk and luvthepros for wanting to see it.  It made me google it and that's how I found those clips.  I agree that these are gems and I love them.  It's also a shame that tap seems like a dying art.  Some dance studios don't even offer it anymore except for the little kids.

[luvthepros]

8 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I have read that Bill Bailey did the first moonwalk (backslide) in 1955 at the Apollo.  This is a wonderful clip that show him and others doing the moonwalk or other moves that might have influenced Michael Jackson.   The author even gave a shout out to the Nicholas Brothers to watch their dancing. 

 I tried to find a clip of Nicholas Brothers doing a backslide but couldn't find one.  But I do love this clip:  You've probably already seen it but I'm linking it for others to enjoy.  Maybe, they do the backslide in this clip but they move so fast that I missed it.

Thanks for posting these. The first one was so fun. Yes, you were correct. I've seen The Nicholas Brothers famous routine from "Stormy Weather" many times but always enjoy watching one more time.

[luvthepros]

Just watched several videos of The Berry Brothers. Just WOW. Reading the comments, many folks say Nicholas brothers who??? I see the special talent the Berry Brothers had but.....still love the Nicholas Brothers.

[luvthepros]

OMG.....I'm watching one video after another when I should be in bed sleeping. Here are two absolute gems. I've never seen these before. The Nicholas Brothers were masters at tap. I realize now, after binge watching both brother groups that The Berry Brothers were not as great at tap as Harold and Fayard but were acrobats and they were fantastic with those canes. Anyway....here are two videos of The Nicholas Brothers when they were young.....so young Harold was a little kid........

Lucky Number - 1936 The Nicholas Brothers

Mandy - 1938 The Nicholas Brothers

Edited November 12, 2017 by luvthepros

[Uke]

9 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I have read that Bill Bailey did the first moonwalk (backslide) in 1955 at the Apollo.  This is a wonderful clip that show him and others doing the moonwalk or other moves that might have influenced Michael Jackson.   The author even gave a shout out to the Nicholas Brothers to watch their dancing. 

 

I tried to find a clip of Nicholas Brothers doing a backslide but couldn't find one.  But I do love this clip:  You've probably already seen it but I'm linking it for others to enjoy.  Maybe, they do the backslide in this clip but they move so fast that I missed it.

Thanks for posting these videos.   The Nicholas Brothers coming down the staircase doing splits - Yikes their legs must be made of rubber!  

[Andie1]

Nicholas Bros Bio 

http://www.theatredance.com/nicholas01.html

[Bridget]

14 hours ago, majormama said:

Love him or hate him (and I do love him), you can't say Mark's dances aren't memorable. I immediately knew each dance you mentioned just on the two or three word description. 

I have to agree with you on this, as one who prefers Derek's choreography and performances.

I'm not a fan of his, and I agree with everything @Andie1 said about his dances, but that Harry Potter dance during the Halloween Night celebration with Chelsea Kane is still in my head. (I know he said he's in the first film, right before the Sorting Hat ceremony, seated at the Hufflepuff table, but I cannot spot him to save my life, nor Julianne. Derek is easy to spot during his pre-Christmas scene, but has anyone ever spotted Mark or Julianne?)

For the record, the Harry Potter nerd in me loved it, hence the "exception to the rule." =)

[Bridget]

13 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

 

I think that is Val's fault. Victoria is going that same route. Has she done the samba or salsa?

I don't recall seeing either of those dances yet. Hmm...

Val said during scoring that they don't want special treatment, so perhaps they might dance one of those tmrw? My WiFi is currently spotty, so I can't Google what their dance was on Latin Night. Maybe a cha cha cha? Anyone know the answer to this?

[luvthepros]

20 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Nicholas Bros Bio 

http://www.theatredance.com/nicholas01.html

Andie....thank you for this. What a wonderful interview!

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, Bridget said:

I don't recall seeing either of those dances yet. Hmm...

Val said during scoring that they don't want special treatment, so perhaps they might dance one of those tmrw? My WiFi is currently spotty, so I can't Google what their dance was on Latin Night. Maybe a cha cha cha? Anyone know the answer to this?

Victoria's Latin Night dance was rumba. She did cha cha on the Week 1 premiere.

Victoria has not done salsa or samba. This Monday she will be dancing contemporary (the press release said waltz, but she's said in interviews she is doing contemporary) and Charleston.

[PBGamer89]

Mark honestly should've won with Katherine and Paige.

Katherine was never going to beat Donald. He had a freestyle that was overpraised. It was good, but not nearly the level of praise it got. He knew the show and how to work it, plus being a football player against two foreign stars. I still find him a rather unremarkable winner. I don't think or remember much of anything he did other that annoying wanted a 10 every week from Len. That fact that Katherine got 2nd in a season where she probably didn't have a huge fanbase is a huge thing, but dance wise, she should've won.

Paige though absolutely deserved to and should've won. Nyle just worked his story all season. Paige was the revelation of the season. Her Jive, Argentine Tango, and finals Salsa are among the best ever for their styles. I still say if they did their Paso as a freestyle in the finals, that type of performance could've won it for her, cause as a Paso it wasn't full of content, but to use that Paso/Contemporary fusion for a freestyle mixed with her UFC theming would'be clicked more in the finals.

Edited November 12, 2017 by PBGamer89

[Andie1]

23 hours ago, majormama said:

Love him or hate him (and I do love him), you can't say Mark's dances aren't memorable. I immediately knew each dance you mentioned just on the two or three word description. 

Indeed.  Who can forget Mark as the Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland?  The guy totally gets into character and you have to love that tenacity.  A couple of duds like the Gorilla Jive with Bristol Palin or the light up shoes that only half lit up for Chelsea Kane's freestyle is memorable for the wrong reason.  Regardless, I enjoy his theatrical side and his willingness to take risks, only as long as he doesn't hurt his celebrity in terms of votes.   The Sci Fi Tango this season was incredible and Emmy worthy, so if he comes up with something crazy good for the finale he and Lindsey will be tough to beat. 

But Lindsay has had some cool routines herself, the subway and the moving sidewalk was all kinds of great, for Calvin, and last season's baseball theme was incredibly good for a limited dancer like David. I think it would be boring with lesser choreography and I think that's why a lot of people get bored, I mean what the heck did Val do last season?  Such a let down. But  I love when the choreographers are on their game, it really makes for an exciting finale.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

5 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Victoria's Latin Night dance was rumba. She did cha cha on the Week 1 premiere.

Victoria has not done salsa or samba. This Monday she will be dancing contemporary (the press release said waltz, but she's said in interviews she is doing contemporary) and Charleston.

I think Victoria could handle Salsa, but the bar has been set very high now that the trios are done. I just don't think Samba would be something she could do, and she's not the first who has skipped Samba in their season. She has done Charleston previously so to build on that to show some growth is probably a smarter way to go. 

Waltz is a tough dance for anyone because it is slow, and more difficult to control the rise and fall - and the to Build a Home piece they are using would be very hard to find the Waltz tempo.  It is a  song used very often by contemporary dancers..

Edited November 12, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

4 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Paige though absolutely deserved to and should've won. Nyle just worked his story all season. Paige was the revelation of the season. Her Jive, Argentine Tango, and finals Salsa are among the best ever for their styles. I still say if they did their Paso as a freestyle in the finals, that type of performance could've won it for her, cause as a Paso it wasn't full of content, but to use that Paso/Contemporary fusion for a freestyle mixed with her UFC theming would'be clicked more in the finals.

I agree with this 100 %  -Paige was great and should have won. Mark's routines with her made me a big fan of his.  Maybe Mark wanted BC to be the highlight for the finale, or maybe he got caught in a scheduling thing.  He wanted BC to sing and I guess they plugged it in for the finale which is  too bad, it would have been much more effective week 8 or 9... and not surprisingly BC will be singing week 9 this time instead of the finale.  This will be much better to do contemporary now and then have a flashy  type of dance for the finale.   I totally agree he should have saved the UFC theme for the finale, or maybe re-work something, since Lindsay Arnold did a Cubs theme twice last season, once for his first dance and then again for the finale. That counted huge for David Ross'  vote.   At the end though, I don't think anything was going to stop the Nyle train even though he danced ok to poor.  He was a handsome white guy that women and men lusted after and the hearing thing just made him all that more vote-able, because it was a great excuse to overlook his bad posture. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

By the same token, we could say Maks deserved to win with Heather or Tony deserved to win with Stacy or Karina deserved to win with Corbin. What makes Mark and his partners so special? Ringers don't always win for various reasons. Let's not forget Chelsea was propelled into the finals over Ralph Macchio with that ridiculous "winner takes all" cushion that she had.

[OnceSane]

Past Seasons are NOT on topic for this thread.  Take it to the appropriate thread, please.

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

 Ringers don't always win for various reasons.

I think Mark mostly creates better routines and is memorable.  Lindsey's AT and Jive is memorable.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Andie1

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

By the same token, we could say Maks deserved to win with Heather or Tony deserved to win with Stacy or Karina deserved to win with Corbin. What makes Mark and his partners so special? Ringers don't always win for various reasons. Let's not forget Chelsea was propelled into the finals over Ralph Macchio with that ridiculous "winner takes all" cushion that she had.

Taken to Mark Thread